Tesla Battery testing - will it even be close to new capacity?
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Testing a pair of Lithium Power Tesla Adapter Board V2 to capacity test a pair of Tesla 5.3kWh batteries. You'll have to watch to the end for the almost photo finish.
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Pete
#diypowerwalls #hbpowerwall #18650ed #diypowerwall
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Hey Pete, thanks for supporting Leon.
Have to try start doing more local stuff, it's the way of the future - Of cause RUclips isn't local so that scratches that idea almost completely lol
Good stuff. I love Mike's video too.
Covers off all the bits that are just a little bit harder to find.
I used an iCharger 3010b for many years with 10s and 30A charging. It is so versatile with many different functions and so powerful. I really used it hard in so many ways and it never failed. It had a huge range of input and output voltages, so you could do some odd things that made it the jack of all trades.
They are proving their value to me and others that have loaned it
I didn't know the Tesla battery fuses are Sonic Welded until you mentioned it in this video - thanks!. (That is as interesting to me as the friction-stir welding they have perfected) Sonic Welding probably avoids the damaging heat transfer that soldering or spot welding puts into the cells.
Thanks for the video, hope you and the family are safe :-)
We feel safe, but feel that isn't enough any more :( Thanks for tuning in Colin
the 'fuses' to the balance cable: let's call them 'bond wires' and they can supply -much- more current than the balance wires can handle. (I've seen them burned...)
I'm guessing they can't have any noticeable resistance or they would hinder a good balance reading by that statement alone they can't be fuses
@@HBPowerwall reading voltages is done when not balancing, so the extra resistance wouldn't matter. Knowing that those fuses / bond wires blow at about 20A...3 of them win from the flexPCB cable without any effort ;)
good job !
thank you ;-)
best reguards from germany
Many thanks!
Hey, Pete,
One tip. If you enable balancing during discharge, you can also see the capacity of each cell after the discharge is done. There will be a fourth tab which you can explore by pulling the knob down.
Greetings,
Another content X6-user.
Good tip! I might try that, was thinking of doing a second video making the cables as short as possible but i don't have the ring terminals left lol I'll look at that extra tab tho. I had to cut bits out of this video or it would have been huge
The iCharger lists the actual Wh discharged on the alternate screen [EDIT: no, it doesn’t - was thinking about a different charger🤦♂️]. You can also log to an SD card internally, then open the log with the Logview software or similar to report Wh, and view all the other data and graphs. This would be very interesting to see on the Tesla module as them we could compare the voltage change knee points with other cells including the Panasonic 21700 cells which should prove or dispose of they are the same chemistry, or are in fact specific for Tesla.
Cool stuff !
Hi! Where is this other alternate screen that shows Wh discharged? All I was able to find was Ah but that depends on voltage.. as Wh is more accurate, I looked everywhere and can’t find it... the reading on the bottom of the ichsrger screen just shows the energy going into the charger not the energy going into the pack.. anyways if you can share where it shows Wh that’ll be awesome!
@@littodevilish sorry Larry but I blame a brain fart thinking about the Wh-since-pwr-on instrumentation of the iSDT Q6. You’re right that the X6/X8 doesn’t report accumulated Wh natively. The only way is via the SD log imported into LogView or similar. Sorry to get your hopes up !
@@fiveangle aw boo.. you said the only way is to log it... I assume then open the log file in that program? I forgot what the program was called but that shows Wh?.. I recall when I plugged the x8 to my laptop and was logging via usb cable it doesn’t show Wh neither haha.. well right now I just have an in-line watt meter so I guess I’m measuring directly lol oh I also have the Hobbymate H6 which looks so similar to the iSDT chargers where there is the source voltage on the bottom and the Wh.. but it only maxes out at 999 and according to the manual it’s measuring the power taken from the source not... the Wh actually leaving the charger into the battery haha..
@@littodevilish you have the choice to use either Logview (Windows) or Dataexplorer (multiplatform) to open the log files from the SD and see a comprehensive graph of all battery data continually throughout the discharge or charge cycle. Logview can also connect directly to the iCharger via USB and provide the graph real-time, but I find Dataexplorer a less painful user experience. www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/ logview.info/forum/index.php?pages/eng/
Need to start balancing, some 80p packs I got, but they had no BMS on them or terminal lags on them. Was a interesting drive home with them Peter. Hope you are safe from the rain mate. It felt like The Wizard of Oz last night, with that house in NSW floating away on the Television new.
Great video! Thanks for sharing. I didn't know the Tesla battery fuses are Sonic Welded until you mentioned it in this video Maybe it's because Sonic Welding probably avoids the damaging heat transfer that soldering or spot welding puts into the cells. Am I wrong? I like your charger X6. Pretty useful.
So great to have an aussie 18650 guru !👍🏻
Absolutely.... hang on I'm no guru - I'm an aussie hack job lol
Mate .... your a guru to me ok . Bit of Aussie ingenuity and plenty of Aussie have a go spirit . Maybe you just think everybody is like that . Not many especially these days !
Makes Australia great again 👍
What do you reckon about a bit of content suggestions ?
Thx, this video helps me out about to shout I use a TESLA battery for my off-grid PV in the garden - best regards from germany
Thank-You and you're welcome
Nice one Pete, show me a bit more of that board the in and out block?
I'll take some photos in the morning after it's recharged and upload them for you
Check out your PC's 'USB selective suspend' setting might be what kills your usb after some time.
This is vital information
I have the isdt t8, I wish I got the icharger, you got to push the button too many times in the ISDT T8, testing cells over and over, it gets old fast!
I have the T8 also those buttons suck on it and it doesn't do regen other than that it's a solid unit
👍 Yes Akb Li-ion! ⚡🔋🔌
👍
Great video Pete.
Thanks bud
Tesla packs are very cool. imagine making a power wall out of them lol
If they were 7S they would be very VERY cool....
@@HBPowerwall solar geni 6kw and 12kw inverters that are designed for 6s tesla modules.
Great video as always. Have you tryed to use a micro-SD for logfiles?
I have but I cut it out due to video being too long. To be honest other than a visual it doesn't mean much to me. How ever it might to a smarter person.
heya that are some great battery pack you got there
Your video is great as always be🤓
Thanks buddy.
Oh by the way, I believe the rating tesla uses is from 4.2 volts down to 3.3 volts, not 3 volts, on a 6.3-6.4 kWh pack from a P100D model S, the difference between 3 volts to 3.3 is only approx 200 Wh of energy.
wouldn't be supprised, these cells voltage drop fast under 3.3
Hello great vid! Could you please share the wiring pinout from Tesla adapter to icharger?
As I was testing my packs, I can't help but wonder how much power is lost in the thin cable that runs from the battery you are testing to the charger. The cable is very short, so I'm sure the power lost is minimal, but for the purposes of capacity testing, I wonder if it's skewing the numbers at all.
That doesn't affect measured Ah, only Wh
@@dboekel That doesn't make sense. If it affects one, it affects the other. Wh = Ah * V.
@@LithiumSolar So how should those cables steal amps?
Ah stays the same, voltage drop means lower voltage on tester, so only Wh goes down.
@@dboekel The cables get hot meaning power is being wasted before it goes through the metering device (charger). It's not getting an accurate measurement. Unless you're suggesting that it somehow calculates that loss based on the voltage reading form the balance leads and power cables.
@@LithiumSolar I'm not suggesting that, I'm just saying that the total Ah doesn't change, so Ah measurement (and that is what he did in the video) is not affected by the loss in the cables.
I don't know how to further explain that to you, maybe someone else can help? It's quite simple but I'm not a good teacher, sorry :p
Wow? So that's what 10kwh looks like just on the desk? Impressive.
I have 16 of those in my car. 300.000km and 11% degratation.
Hi, can you please explain how exactly did you hooked up bms board with icharger, negative on top over 1 on first from left on icharger, then 1-6 (I am asking because I have fellten bms b and on it is negative over 6, top left)
2nd: you are using lilo not lipo mode for charging ?
Just a note, those batteries have their capacity rated at 0,5 C. So you should discharge them at 110 amps and then check their real capacity. Of course for your use it is nonsense, but that is the way to know real capacity loss from new. You actually discharged them at 1/10 C, so way less.
So in order to use those boards as balancers you have to buy the i charger also
Yes, they will balance charge and do a god job of it. There is also an X8 www.diypowerwalls.com/x8 that'll do 8S not 6S so a little more useful to some.
Gread video..nice from indonesia
Thanks for tuning in buddy.
No problem.help subcrebe bro
Did you ever mount Model S modules to the wall? Am wondering how, can't find anything and do not yet have a good idea (for a moving/vibrating setup, like in a RV/Trailer).
i've never done it but would love to try but these batteries are on loan, so don't want to risk an issue with them. Personally wouldn't be hanging 25kg of weight on the wall in a mobile application.
Can you charge the tesla with the icharger you are showing?
I did, about 2 dozen times :)
top vid mate
Thanks - Karl
Aren't they 240-250 ah new? Not bad, much better than the leaf batteries I bought, probably the same price, alot of this stuff cost what it does , because that's what we pay for it!
Yep all value is perceived, look at toilet paper :P
The correct ah test dependent on proper voltage cutoff 3v-4,2v per cell or 2,8v-4,2 the charger should be set at the same usable cutoff voltages like on the Tesla bms
Hello how can I use a Battrey like this with a off grid growatt inverter just program the inverter or what can I do that that comunícate over Ethernet cable
or even tesla individual cells
I bought leaf cells, they were only 42 ah. From rated 65, they could actually been between 65-70ah new, I bought new cells cheaper!
that sucks - but we are gambling on getting usable cells cheaper than new a lot of the time.
@@HBPowerwall Ahh, the crap shoot. It is one thing to get batteries with unknown capacities. We all know that. It is another to buy from reclaimers that state what the used batts are averaging. I've purchased from Tom three times now, where he told me on the phone what they were testing the particular packs at. On all three different packs, the capacities were much much lower than any margin of error could ever be. I like him but am done. Fool me once, fool me twice... Thanks for the vid mate. Cheers!
3 years later, how are they doing? Care to do an update video?
They still sit under my bench not touched.
actually, on my phone it looked like this battery was one of the two out of the Tesla Powerwall that I had here. These batteries are apparently still in use on a farm out west ( they were a subscribers batteries )
hi the 12 pin molex cable is how many guage wire thank
Thumbnail with red bar at bottom is misleading. Looks like i already watched this video ;)
I added that for some weird visual appeal - lol at least you noticed, what over video was it?>
got any sources for tesla packs in oz?
Lithium Power in WA sell them - 5% Discount with coupon code 'Powerwalls' www.lithium-power.com.au/
I have 14 of them been off grid for 2 years on them they have been between 8-24mv out of balance depending on load.
At one point i had 28 of them but sold some
Where do you get them ?
@@qwertyui90qwertyui90 bought several wrecked teslas
I would replace my wall with these in a heartbeat given the chance
@@HBPowerwall i have a little video of it somewhere on my page
What inverter do you use with them? I want to do the same but struggling with its dump 6S conf. 😓
Cool video, informative! I always want to know how much the Tesla Battery's degradation is,,,, looks like they last long or good enough for me...
Depends on your intended use I guess..
Nice video, I will try to do the same on Tesla batteries.
How did you know when to stop the discharge to make a complete test of the state of charge without going to deep which could damage the batteries ?
The X6 has a low cut off of three voltes i believe. So it's automatic
Hi there! One quick question how long would last diy Tesla power bank made it those cells 5kwh for a small house using daily 4kwh ?
You'd be lucky to get a few years out of it.. you're doing 80% DOD every day - not good for making batteries last..
This could be my dream work 😁but i'm not lucky to get aportunity
Used to be my dream, now it's my nightmare lol
Shouldn't the discharge capacity test be at the standard 0.2C which is like 1060W for this battery? You wouldn't be getting ~5kWh if you did this. The ~700W you were discharging at is probably the explanation for the remarkably high capacity test result.
There is no doubt it should be but most end users don't have access to those tools. I used what I had, thing is if you did it when you got them and again 12 - 24 months later the same way you then have a metric you can use. I think it was a vaild test still, and kinda fun to see if the X6 was even up to the task.
Hi Pete. I've been watching your vids for a couple of years. You are helping me build my powerwall. Thank you! I bought some cells from dh gate they are the Samsung 30q. They look real, but they do not reach 3000 mAh. My best one yet reached 2400mah. I've tested 5 of the 200 purchased. Average mAh is 2200. They arrived in 2 boxes. One box tested 3.7v then other 3.8v. do you have any suggestions? They're super cheap. I think they're old stock. Is there any way to bring them up? I've been charging and discharging one of them. The mAh seems to climb a little with every charge/ discharge cycle. 4 cycles so far. They're still better than the china cells that I paid $50 for 100 cells. Those batts would not charge more than 1200mah. And as a single cell I pulled 98,000mah shouldnhave been 300,000.
I'm using a b6ac charging on auto in lipo. Discharging using NIMH since lipo setting won't go to 2.5v
Thanks man.
Sounds like you got some dud cells..
@@HBPowerwall Or you are not charging or discharging them over the entire voltage range they are designed to encompass.
Hi. At 6:17 you mention a MOLEX connector (10 pin 5x2) that plugs into the replacement BMS board. Where do you buy these? They are not mentioned in your list of suppliers. Do they come supplied with the lithium-power boards?
this one maybe? www.lithium-power.com.au/product/tesla-slave-original-connector-v1-v2/16?cp=true&sa=true&sbp=false&q=false
I looked on the website but not for the correct search term. cheers. thanks again.
I did discharge test at 100amps for over an hour and battery got warm . The temp of the surrounding area was about 15 degrees and battery got to 30 deegres celcius. Do I have worn cells or is this normal?
how the hell do you test at 100 amps, thats a PROPER discharge test for sure.. At that discharge rate you'd expect it to get hot..
did you have any problems with the fan griding/buzzing noise of this charger?
YEH - single bad thing about them.. I just had to change a fan
@@HBPowerwall your charger have also the buzzing noise? i have the solution of that you probably don't need to cheange the fan just dissaseble the charger and remove the fan and unstick the sticker from back side of the fan and there is the bearing hole put in only 3 dropels of car oil and put new good sticker to prevent oil leaks from it and noise should gone. This is the common problem of fan failure on that ichargers the use poor qualty fan and sleeve bearings on all X series now i sold it and buy ISDT q8 max charger because isdt brand using good ball bearing fan type and probably never fail
Thank you for the video. I am wondering, what type of connector are you using with the bms-adapter-board on the tesla battery module? The moldex??? I can not get the correct type for ordering one...
www.lithium-power.com.au/product/tesla-slave-original-connector-v1-v2/16?cp=true&sa=true&sbp=false&q=false ?
@@HBPowerwall Thank you. Living in europa I am looking for a product somewhere more nearby. Keep up the good work. Thanks to you we do not pay anymore for electricity :-)
Could you tell me the diameter measurement of a fuse wire on one of the Tesla cells? They must have put a lot of engineering into meeting their spec requirements to pop the 18650s. You and @AveRageJoe started testing cell level 'Tesla style' fuse wires years ago. Does anyone know specifically what Tesla fuse wires are made of? I always wondered, but never had access to a Tesla pack to investigate.
I don't own anything accurate enough to measure i'm sorry
@@HBPowerwall Thanks for all the videos! Sharing your projects has done a lot to advance the DIY movement. I will post in the forum - now I'm more curious that I've never seen a reference to what Tesla actually uses for fuses in all the discussions about their innovation. I think we can be certain they don't use 1/8 Watt resistor legs! :-)
Great video, i would be using one similar and also in the UK also for my van build when i start building it. Also do you know of any good pure sine wave inverter 24V that i can use with the 24V Tesla battery that lets me go down to 15V or close to it?
Im using the Singineer which is basically made for these batteries. store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=Sigineer6kw
Im using edecoa 24v/220 3500-7000w inverter and it shuts off at 20,5volts automatically. Some people saying that you can go down to 18v with tesla but actually your tesla module can last longer if you dont go to low with discharging.
At this moment i dont have tesla module, i have 8pcs of 180ah gel batteries and im having problem because they are not charged equally while they are connected in series so i don't have much capacity of it. Another problem for me is shutting off at 20,5 is too low for gel, so i need to invest in some balancer and low voltage protection if i want to use it. Im thinking to sale the batteries and buy this Tesla module.
Hello nice Job!
I'm from Portugal, i don't understand well, you say the battery's are new or used?
They are used out of a Tesla with about 40,000 km on it
Do you feel safe with using those batteries? I’m just curious, other youtubers praise then when they first got them and used them. Than said youtubers get free batteries from another manufacturer for free and say they are dangerous
Batteries are save till you do dumb shit with them typically.
How warm can I expect these to get on say a 10amp charge?
shouldn't change temp at all at that rate.
I'm wondering how it will handle 100 amps?
i'd say EASY!
@HBPowerwall I'm sure it would take it. My concern would be temp and voltage during the discharge. I wouldn't want to run my inverter below 23.5 at 100amp draw. I would also like to know if it would need a simple heat exchanger system for the battery when operating at those temps.
Hey Pete whats your solar current input in the shed.
Only 1.2 kw of panels BUT they are facing south not west so not at all ideal. I have the panels to make it much bigger but no space to put them up. I need to rethink my shed roofs panel layout to see if i can fit some more panels on even if it means hanging some off the side.
So with the degenerative discharge, you can set the maximum voltage on the iCharger so it doesn’t overcharge the second battery?
Does anyone know of some kind of automatic transfer switch that could be used so as to divert the charging current to another battery once a maximum voltage has been achieved?
Yes the max output voltage is configurable, check out mikes (Lithiumsolar) video i linked in description
HBPowerwall thanks Pete, did you have an idea on what could be used when the battery being regenerated reaches full capacity?
Some sort of programable relay or switch that could switch the regeneration to another battery?
I’ve ordered this charger but want to be able to do regenerative discharging tests from my larger battery to other smaller banks, which I can’t parallel in order to do the test. (I hope this makes sense 😬)
Hello, i see that you wiring your battery pack leads at one side now. Is it more efficient that way or no different?
sorry, i don't understand what your asking?
Was asking about the busdar ends on your pack, does it make a difference putting the negative and positive on either ends of the pack ?
I think it's fine - if it works for telsa with billions in RnD it should be fine
These chargers must have increase in price I will research for a better price
How many 18650 batteries will it take to make a 100ah battery? 200ah Battery?
Curious from Indiana
I get recycled cells at about 2ah each so around 50. They're 3.7v nominal.
Here did you get a tesla battery in australia
Black market, back ally deal lol
Hi mate I’m interested in your Icharger. What size power supply can you use with them. I was give a server power supply 12.3 volts and it can put out 65amps. Would that be to powerful for the icharger x6 ?
that charger is limited to 30 amps out and about 35 amps in. If you supply it with 24ish volts in then you can nearly use the full potential of 800 watts, with only a 12 volt source such as from the common sever power supples every is selling for way to much, you will be limited to 12 volts x 35 amps = your max charge power. limited to 30 amps outlet of course.
Yep that should keep it happy,
Is it not possible to use The stock BMS for a powerwall?
Sure it is, there are many products out there that allow it. These boards allow for things like this to happen tho :)
Thumbzies 👍👍👍👍💥
Big thanks
8 Aussie Wire Gage :D
lol
Where do you get these Tesla batteries from.
If you're in australia you can look at LithiumPower - www.lithium-power.com.au/product/tesla-module-22-2v-5-3kw-v1-v2/1?cs=true (Coupon code "Powerwalls" will save you 5% at checkout) or eBay is a good place to look unfortunately you never know what is being sold
You can simply save the 40 bucks and attach a 6s balance lead directly to the cell banks inside the tesla module or you can tap into the plug that connects into that 40 dollar paperweight from the cell banks. There is no reason you need that middle man device. There are already 7 wires coming from the tesla pack (6s lipos have 7 balance wires.) Now if you know absolutely nothing about balance leads or how to wire up some plugs then sure, pay money for adapaters and continue to spend money on items vice buying tools to build your own creations.
I disagree - it looks neat and tidy - and if that costs 40 bucks i'm all over it. Also can't beat plug and play
@@HBPowerwall But you still need to pin and wire the plugs that go into your $40 plug and play item... So why not just connect directly to the leads that are already coming out of the battery before they get to that circuit board..... I just have 7 pin 2.54mm connectors I crimped it. Literally the same thing the RC industry has been using for a decade and it works with all of there balance gear. Cost me penny's per module and takes at most 10mins a pack to install if you aren't familiar with crimping connections on 24 gauge wiring. Simply a matter of DIY or $DIY$.
Hello, can you teach me regenerative discharge settings? I tried to do it many times but I couldn't do it. Which is very bad
Yes I can, check out lithiumsolar's video linked in description - he goes through it in detail make sure you sub him
:)
👍
2,000,000 mah
*said with pinky finger nail clamped between my two front teeth.
2 kah
great video as always very informative I’m preparing my home for a battery back up I just bought a tesla model 3 battery pack out of the 2019 model written of with about 40,000 k’s on it here in Australia what can I expect to get out of it in terms of how hooking it up on my solar system I’m trying to get some power out of it at night also having spent 10 K would you say that’s too much
Thanks
SR+, LR or Performance?
It’s the SR model and it’s actually early 2020 model i think it’s using the 21700 cells
Is it hard to get them re-configured for Power wall
Thanks
5k
Is that views per hour lol PLEASE be 5k hehee
@@HBPowerwall I mean to say 5 KWh . I put 5k in a hurry lol.
4.5 k ?
Roughly about there.
@@cheetahkid i was closeish
I don't know what ya'll talking about
@@HBPowerwall 4.5 kilowatt
iCharger $100 that must have been years ago. More like from $250 this days
You can get them for around $115US all day long. I don't know where you're shopping that they're $250...
100 USD - 500 AUD lol
18.650 Volts. Am I the only one that noticed that?
4.2v(25.2v) to 3v (18v) was the test range
@@HBPowerwall Ok, so I am the only one! 18.650 Volts from a bunch of, wait for it, 18650s.
ahahah C L U N K ! got it now
@@HBPowerwall some 18650s are rated to below 3.0volts as well. worth looking into. but for powerwalls with mixed cells you better off to stop at 3v for all types.
Why do you need so much battery
Can't make new content with out it :) and also i really enjoy it