One of the Worst Types of Downtown Development (Addendum to "10 Worst Downtowns in the U.S.)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Some add-on info for the video "10 Worst Downtowns in the U.S". I go over what I believe are some of the worst types of developments that several downtowns have. The downtown of a city should be unique and reflect the culture of the city and/or region. Cities that have some cookie cutter development in their CBDs are not utilizing the prime real estate of downtown to the best extent.
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10 Worst Downtowns in the U.S.
• 10 Worst Big City Down...
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Correction- Atlanta's Live! isn't downtown. It's near the baseball stadium but like a genius I forgot that the new stadium is out in the suburbs.
You’re not an idiot, Atlanta is for building a stadium way out! 🤦♂️
Wish someone would figure out the secret sauce to Underground Atlanta
@@StLouis-yu9izit’s the best thing they ever did. The new stadium is miles better than Turner field, the Braves have been able to keep their stadium consistently full, and the area around old Turner field has been redeveloped and is better after the Braves left. It works for the Braves because Atlanta has a gargantuan urban sprawl and most people that go to the games consistently live in the suburbs
@@sstorey79yes it has been a win-win for the Atlanta metro.
@@sstorey79that’s right. And even old turner field has been put to great use, becoming Georgia State’s Football stadium and they did a great job with it and the area surrounding old Turner field looks so so much better than it used to.
What if we just turned a large chunk of our city center into a Buffalo Wild Wings
Or a Cheesecake Factory... I mean I think it's absolutely a pleasing opportunity for Ray (CityNerd). lol. I wonder how often it has been that a Buffalo Wild Wings takes over a Hooters location. When that happened in Beaverton, Oregon, I almost immediately thought "you know what? That feels like the same umbrella corporation taking over for itself. I bet it's actually pretty common."
Just make sure every square inch of wall has a TV
Too classy lets do hooters
The whispering of “Live!” Every time is killing me haha
It was starting to turn into a drinking game
Live!👋
Kind of reminded me of Biden
Liiiive!
Yeah, Kyle’s too nice to say he hates these things. But he made it clear in his own way…. 😅
Has to say it that way, with the exclamation point! 💀
I used to travel for business and I would always ask for recommendations for local and unique eateries. I purposely avoided the national chains- Applebees, Red Lobster, Olive Garden etc. even if they were right across the street. I still have wonderful memories of great food and warm hospitality at the local restaurants. Do yourself a favor and seek out the local places- it will worth the time!
I do the same thing whenever I travel. The only time I'll go to a chain restaurant is if it's a place that I've never been to, and doesn't exist in my part of the country.
This feels like CityNerd-adjacent content. Not complaining since y'all are basically my two favorite youtubers.
Yeah Geo King is usually super positive, so this is creeping into CityNerd snark. Can't help but clicking both :)
City nerd just kind of 💩 on my city PHOENIX which is great I can tell you deep down loved it here they say we have no downtown skyline but we have two thst almost connects for a hell of a spread!
I’d love to see GK interview citynerd.
@@BrotherLoveherHe was very conflicted about Phoenix. After watching his video, the impression I got is that he understands that it's a relatively new city and thus it's going to be car-dependent, but the city is also clearly making progress In the right direction.
Now Charlotte... he's definitely shit on Charlotte lol.
Well there’s a lot of overlap between Urban Planning and Geography in general
Your point that these are poor additions to major city downtowns is spot-on - it kills local culture. But in situations like the ATL Battery where it’s in Cobb County (nowhere near the CBD), I got no problem with it. Basically the same deal as with the Arlington location.
And the one in Philly is south of Center City by all the stadiums
what is a cbd?
@@nohaybanda3061 Central Business District. It's essentially another word for downtown, but it's more focused on the business aspect. It's kind of like the term Financial district as well.
Do a best downtown episode!
I wanna see that
He has
No episode necessary. The Gaslamp in SD is by far the best
The stadiums in Philly are not downtown. They are all clumped together in a stadium district in South Philly, which has decent but not great public transportation access from Center City. While certainly not perfect, I think that Philly’s stadium location strategy is interesting and solves some common problems with where to place stadiums in a city.
I think it makes a decent amount of sense to have something like Live down in the stadium district where people can go out and have fun before or after games, concerts, etc.
I agree with your general sentiment here, though. These things don’t have much character and the ones located in downtowns take up valuable real estate that could be used for something else.
Agreed, I’m hoping Live and similar operations stay out of Center City. I’m wary of the Sixers building an arena in the CBD in part because I don’t want these gaudy chains and casinos hopping up
Go birds! 🤠🤛🦅
Exactly
Yes. I said the same then read your comment.
I went to the last event at both JFK (Grateful Dead, Bruce Hornsby), and The Spectrum (Pearl Jam). The Spectrum show was nearly 4 hours long, and 42 songs. I had previously seen The Dead (post-Jerry Grateful Dead), where Bob Weir changed the words to Samson and Delilah to "If I had my way I WOULDN"T tear this old building down".
I'm a Louisville resident. I've only been to 4th St. Live 4-5 times in 15 years. It attracts people from rural areas around the city while residents rarely go
I used to live off of 3rd Street in Old Louisville and I absolutely hated 4th Street Live. It felt so manufactured and then what made it hilarious is that they tried to act pretentious whenever you went down there. Bardstown Road and Frankfort are so much better.
What happens if it doesn't pan out? Does the city get saddled with a giant rundown rat farm?
The one in St. Louis is used mostly by baseball attendees, since it's right next to the ballpark. For several years after the new ballpark was constructed, the area was a barren parking lot. Live! is not the greatest but it's better than nothing. With the rise of remote working after the Covid episode, the downtown in St. Louis has lost many of its office workers and the normal lunchtime crowd places are empty now.
The Metrolink I think is one of the best public transportation systems in the country! It’s great being able to take the Metrolink Train from Scott AFB Illinois through downtown to the Lambert Airport!
They do seem quite cringy, like a glorified shopping mall. Nothing beats real streets full of local stores and pedestrians.
The battery in atlanta is beyond the perimeter 285 loop way way out in the suburbs. 17 miles from the old Turner field. And just like here in the johnson county kansas suburb of kansas city mussouri, we have numerous brand new bankrupt large-scale suburban entertainment districts. The area around power and light is a boom town if massive growth. Search it uo
So half of these (Atlanta, Philadlephia, St Louis, Arlington) are located near sports stadiums which makes sense, especially since most of those stadiums (except for STL) are already located in simulated urbanism districts. Another half are in cities where the downtowns are struggling and need any form of investment (Norfolk, Baltimore, Louisville, KC). I don't really understand the Miami one out in the burbs, and I definitely don't understand why this is necessary in downtown Nashville. I kinda get why something like this makes sense for a sports district especially if it's outside the center city, but idk how much benefit it is to a downtown that's already struggling.
"Simulated urbanism" is a great descriptor for these.
I understand the dislike of the cookie cutterish sameness introduced with these developments. But this presentation raises some questions.
1. What existed on-site before these Live developments and if rundown for how long was it like that?
2. Do many cities have a competent urban planning division? Or do they all just issue contracts to the same half dozen "urban consultancies"?
3. When cities have tried to oversee these types or comparably complex tupes of use developments on their own, how have the results been compared to cities with Live?
4. Do cities actually build, overhaul, or manage anything on their own?
I have noticed a trend of convention centers, arenas, and theaters being managed by large national and international firms such as Live Nation and OVG.
Spokane, WA has a Public Development Authority that manages the convention center, sports arena, performing arts center, and other central event spaces. It's a special purpose district, so it's publicly manged and also semi independent from the City itself.
The Live at the Battery in Atlanta is NOT in the CBD. it's several miles northwest of Midtown
Thank you.
1. Philly here. I don't consider our Live! is downtown.
1. It's a 1 5 mile from Center City.
2. It's next to the three stadiums.
3. It's a 0.5 mile from a neighborhood.
4. Housing would never be built in its place.
5. It replaced the former Flyers and Sixers multiplex.
Remember how awesome Allen Iverson was?
Speaking about the one in Louisville this is almost exactly what happened. It was built on the site of a mall that had been declining for years. What was even more striking was that they pushed it like it was something unique to Louisville and not something that multiple other cities have done.
Without rapid-transit, these Live environments are hardly viable. When going out for a night-on-the-town, to a car-centric Live environment, most people who aren’t teetotalers risk DWI citations (if they’re lucky) or accidents (if they’re not) on the drive home. A district surrounding Live environments that are not city central should be zoned for mixed-use multiple dwellings and provided a mass-transit alternative for future development. They should not just be dropped into place without real urban planning.
For years, San Diego Police would block traffic leaving downtown near freeway onramps, one Friday and Saturday night a month, for DUI checks. That, and the hours-long wait to come back across the border, just killed my interest in those places when I was younger and went out a lot.
I'm always glad when the "worst of" list doesn’t include Alabama!
I guess there’s not enough fools in Alabama
@@riverflyswatterTons of fools in Alabama. Just not important enough cities sadly...
Same for Detroit.
Yall have a downtown???
@@hamburglar83 a few but none that are particularly large or impressive. Birmingham downtown is nice but so expanded that there isn’t really a city center
As you point out, most of these prefab “entertainment districts” are located near stadiums, most of which I would bet were subsidized at the city and state level in a bid to spur economic development. Studies have shown that stadiums have a poor return on investment for cities, and I would bet that this “Live!” product has a similarly poor return.
You nailed it. They smack of desperation. Norfolk's Waterside was a Rouse Development that failed. No one hangs around downtown St Louis after Cards games.
Yes they do. 🤷♂️
@@StLouis-yu9iz Only the 'oids, everyone else leaves.
StL is too boring to hang out in after Cardinals games are over
@@starventure don’t know what oids is lol
@@TimEric4d3d3d3 please tell me which municipality in Missouri you think is more interesting then 😂
Here in Maryland we have Power Plant Live! downtown Baltimore, and it's been a great addition. It's not in the old power plant though. That's where there Hard Rock Cafe is located. It is where the Cordish Company corporate headquarters is located (Live! ownership). The actual venue is across Pratt Street. Ram's Head Live is a nice music venue located inside it. It's been pretty much the replacement after the old Hammerjacks was closed. Hammerjacks was part of the artwork on the back cover of Iron Maiden's Somewhere in Time. We also have Maryland Live! casino by the airport.
yes i was going to mention Maryland Live. used to party at Hammerjacks back in the day and i love the Rams Head venue.
You used the word "fake" which is a word I'd apply to Disneyland's Main Street. It's attractive because it's nostalgic. It's nostalgic because it mimics what we all wish our main streets still looked like. Our city blocks and neighborhoods historically grew piecemeal, organically, one business or house at a time, as needed. Developments like "Live" aren't based on genuine need and active community involvement in local city planning, they're based on speculative ventures that exploit our collective weakness for new flashy amusements and easy fixes for boredom and apathy. They seek to extract as much money out of the community as possible, and will cut and run as soon as people get bored with it. It's just the latest iteration of the mall; artificial (fake) towns, where the only thing there is to do is spend money or gawk at people spending money, in a places that become soulless and empty every night because no one lives there, and kids don't play there.
Very interesting points, thanks!
Would we say that the stadium district in Philadelphia is Center City (our name for downtown)? Feels like a big stretch. I'm not sure anyone in Philly would consider it that ... some people don't even consider it South Philly.
its definitely not in center city and to add philadelphia does not have a struggling cbd either its pretty propsperous and a top maybe 15 visited city in america
I live and work in Philadelphia. I would say our Live! is quite separated geographically from Center City Philadelphia. It’s right off of Interstate 76 near the Sports Complex one exit before the approach to the Walt Whitman Bridge. I’ve casually visited twice. I liked it. I had no idea these were nationwide until I watched your video.
Thanks for this interesting video, but I think you need to explain what exactly "Live" is. I personally, have no idea.
The Miami Vivo is 14 miles from downtown- suburban location - nothing to do with the city of Miami
Orlando's makes sense because it is in the Tourist District, not Downtown. It is in the middle of I-Drive tourist district by the Convention Center, with a ton of other similar attractions. That is actually what the people who go to that type of place look for.
People who live in Orlando don't frequent I-Drive much, but the tourists will go there and having a known venue there is pretty much what they are looking for. (Similar to Hard Rock, House of Blues, etc.).
Kyle's just looking for an excuse to hate on Orlando some more! 😂 But yeah, nowhere near downtown.
I understand your point. It would be nice if KC could have a vibrant, exciting downtown that grew organically. Downtown KC was dead. No one would take a chance down there until they built the Sprint Center and the P&L district. It was a catalyst that spurred growth throughout the entire downtown area. The streetcar line was added and is now being extended. The River Market area is thriving. The women's soccer stadium is a first-of-its-kind. I don't think mayor Kay Barnes was duped by a, as you put it, snake oil salesman. I think it was a good compromise that started a revitalized downtown. Maybe now that the downtown area is thriving KC has the luxury of reimagining the P&L district. Could it all have been done differently? Perhaps there's a video idea there of downtowns that were brought back from death without a "Live" district?
🛎️🛎️🛎️ All of this! KC’s isn’t perfect, but is one who moved to the region in 2006, the transition has been absolutely incredible.
If Sprint (or T-Mobile) Center is so great how come there isn't an NBA and/or NHL team there?? It appears a lot of taxpayer money was wasted just to build an arena for a team that never came. And now the Royals want taxpayers to foot the bill for a new ball park in the same area. What used to be "downtown" seems to be mostly parking lots or old office buildings converted into "loft" apartments.
Times Square springs to mind as I'm watching this. Sure, it's fun to visit for 20 minutes on your trip to NYC, but why eat at a homogenous Olive Garden when you could find an authentic, unique, 100 year old, family run, restaurant four blocks away? RUclipsr @ Tomdnyc frequently talks about these types of things in his NYC walking tour videos. Specifically, how mom 'n' pops places give cities so much of their history and character. The corporatization of CBD's sucks.
For example, if I find myself in KC, I'll be asking around for the best local BBQ spot, not some boring, cookie-cutter Live! nonsense.
The battery in Atlanta is not downtown, or even Atlanta proper
I think that this video would have been better if you didn't include the ones that are nowhere near their respective city's downtown.
The one in Philly is next to the stadiums; which aren't even close to the downtown area.
Agreed. It's several miles away via the Broad Street subway line.
To be honest the LIVE in Philadelphia is in their stadium district which is about a 10-15 minute subway ride away from Downtown Philadelphia. The only thing that is near LIVE in Philadelphia is the arena/stadiums, a lot of parking & a subway station. To me Downtown Philadelphia is around their city hall. That’s where the subway lines converge, the skyscrapers are located near city hall, the convention center is near city hall & Independence Hall is about a 20 minute walk from city hall. To me the LIVE in Philadelphia is just its stadium district & to be honest unless there’s an event going on it’s not a very good stadium district(nothing to attract people when no events are occurring).
To make LIVE in Philadelphia better I would put the parking underground & I would build a mixed use development consisting of: housing, shopping(a mall), more restaurants/pubs, a movie theatre, a bowling alley & a family fun center(arcade & mini golf).
I love your videos. This one did feel different. You forgot to explain what Live! is and why exactly you think it's bad.
@RafaelDandreaRocha That is a really good point!
Seems like something straight out of a South Park episode...
😂
Cartman: "Myoowwmn!? I need $25 to go to Live with my friends tonight."
it is. it's called SoDoSoPa
they gentrified the space around Kenny's house
@@craigluft7453 😂
STL Ballpark village isn’t so bad because it’s across the street from the ball stadium and carries the theme well. Given that you can watch the game from a big screen right across the street and hear the crowd even if you don’t have a ticket to the game itself.
All BPV really did was keep and attract suburbanites downtown before and after games. Most of their patrons weren’t going to the “natural” entertainment areas anyway, so it didn’t pull a ton from them. Additionally, it added a hotel, office building, and apartment building along with lots of local and national restaurants. It’s nowhere near a failure.
@@rorypaul153 Do people go to downtown St. Louis when there isn't a baseball game or a concert?
@@713davidh42 considering there’s dozens of restaurants, entertainment, and tourist attractions I’d say yes
Went to the one in Arlington and it’s cool for like a day. It’s expensive and have no reason to go to if you’re not going to ranger games or events around the area. It’ll be dead if no events going on. But it is nice to have a place to hang out around the ballpark and stadium. But overall it’s very corporate and not a natural town feel
As some other commenters have noted, the problem, as always, is where the money needed to do it comes from. It takes lots of dollars for downtown development/redevelopment. These days, it comes from big corporations, who can realize economies of scale by doing the same thing in many locations. As such, the unique and interesting downtown areas we used to know are being replaced by the corporate cookie cutter stuff featured in this video. I suppose it's fine if you like it. Personally, I don't.
This is the first time I ever heard of these things
The athletic director at Iowa State is trying to bring a KC Power and Light District type development to Ames. In the tailgating lot between football, basketball and auditorium. Just what we need, another dining shopping entertainment district to compete with downtown, campustown, Dayton, south duff, north duff, summerset, lincolncenter, west lincolnway and south dakota centers. But this has an advantage. University property is property tax exempt
You should do a video on independent vs chain businesses in cities. IMO independents have creativity and soul that chains lack. It's also a myth chains are more efficient/cheaper. All things being equal, franchise fees mean independents can be more efficient because they don't have that overhead. Sadly, chains are replacing independents like an invasive species, because usually chains have more political clout with developers, local politicians, and bankers.
That's the most important comment on this subject.
Hey Geo King, I somewhat agree with your analysis but I have to disagree with Kansas City’s assessment.
1. Kansas City Live is in my opinion one of the most vibrant and safe places for younger adults to go out and have a good time at. It has plenty of nightclubs and bars, and in my opinion there are no chain restaurants at all that would make it something you’d see in a suburb. It’s also connected to our downtown street car.
2. The whole power and light theme is based on the old Kansas City power and light company, and the entire area takes on that identity with the one, two, three, and soon four “light” lux apartments that some chiefs and royals players live in.
3. The Power and Light district has become a major gathering place for all residents of Kansas City and is engrained in our culture. As said before, there aren’t really any chain bars or restaurants if any as we have local kc themed areas like “No other Pub”, Joes Kansas City, Mcfaddens, KC Irish pub, and others. It is also a place where we all go to watch major sporting games and events. During the World Cup and Super Bowl Kansas City is actually shown plenty of times during the national broadcasts when team USA or the chiefs are playing and shows the huge crowd there in support.
4. Major Kansas City events are held there annually like the KC hot country nights which is a country concert every Thursday of the summer and has 10s of thousands of visitors every single Thursday. Our PBR like you mentioned is a chain but I disagree that it isn’t apart of KCs culture because a lot of KC is into country and rodeo culture as the American royal was a big part of the city in our west bottom district.
5. I also disagree that if the Kc live wasn’t there we would be better off without it and it could be something else in its place because our downtown wouldn’t have any foot traffic at all if it wasn’t for the power and light district.
All in all I think it is a beacon for the people of Kansas City to gather with each other, and without it the city doesn’t have many other places outside of Union station. I believe its addition is a net positive for the city and we wouldn’t be the same without it.
half of 'em will be "repurposed" after 10 years.
These "Live" entertainment areas suck. But I will tell you that pretty much every new baseball stadium is likely to have one nearby going forward. Team owners aren't satisfied only with publicly funded stadiums anymore. They actively want to also be in the real-estate game to make profit of these type of developments. Whether they be operated by "Live" or not they will be just as soul less. I'm not sure how to stop this if they are just putting it all on raw land or redeveloping parking lots. But lets hope historic main street style buildings don't get demolished in any future developments of this type. The KC Royals put forth a proposal late last year to move the team near downtown and demolish a large section of the Crossroads district. Hopefully that never sees the light of day.
I've never seen a Live. Interesting since I now know what to stay away from
San Diego Padres moved to their current downtown location and the city was smart enough to place the stadium just a few blocks from the already popular Gaslamp District. And within a few years the blocks between the stadium and Gaslamp District developed organically with restaurants, bars, hotels, etc.
Yes! Been to SD - America's best city several times and agree about the stadium's location. The Gaslamp has always seemed to thrive and the stadium helped even more. The Gaslamp is the best area in San Diego to be. Ate at the McCormick and Schmicks by the stadium, also visited Jim Croce's' place, Fio's Restaurant among others and stayed at the Horton Grand Hotel and of course went to Horton Plaza seveal times.
I went to the one in Norfolk once, not again.
Back in the day Norfolk did some gentrification and it was great for a while, but criminal elements started creeping back in. Waterside is a great location but like the Granby St area crime started to keep paying customers away and the city is flailing to revitalize.
These are all boring, homogeneous add-ons to a sporting event where predictable drinks and average food are served to suburbanites who drive in. Essentially a glorified Applebee's.
Toronto has Maple Leaf Square.
Edmonton has the Ice District.
Winnipeg has True North Square.
All three entertainment districts are in their respective downtowns.
Kcp&l drew 95 million visitors to its location over 10 years. Nearly 50,000 residents have moved to downtown in that time. Suburban people are the folks who work in most downtowns. Except for a few cities like new york, chicago, and Miami, most downtown have no residents. And, yes folks worldwide, flock to downtowns where the action is
I've been wondering where do residents who live in those "loft" apartments downtown get their groceries and other supplies?? On a recent video (Joe and Nic Road Trip) of the so-called "downtown" I saw only a CVS Drug Store at 10th & Main and more parked cars than people on the street.
This is a good rant
KC Power & Light district is fantastic and one of my favorite parts of the CBD. I live 3 hours away in Wichita and wish I could make the drive there more than twice a year
I don't live in Kansas City anymore but I liked going the Power and Light District when was there. I was there the Royals won the World Series in 2015 and it was a ton of fun being surrounded by the fans, and I caught Sheena Easton performing there as well.
Can you do a site visit? It's hard to get a feel for them unless I see video of someone visiting one.
I was just thinking, I’ll click on a king kyle video bc he wont bombard me with ads, and then 30 sec in you mention there’s only 1 ad😂 I love it
The Miami one is fine because it's in Doral/Sweetwater by the Dolphin Mall which is most definitely the suburbs and it fits the atmosphere of that area. It's about 30-35ish minutes from Downtown Miami.
I’m in Arlington, Texas and the Live we have is often dead quiet without a Rangers game so all in all it can be quite a letdown
Fellow Texan here in Houston. Arlington is a national embarrassment imo. No downtown, no bus, nothing. But at least y’all still have six flags. RIP astroworld 😭
@@ruckusbeblack Used to be one private bus that left Commerce St. next to the Federal Bldg. at 6 am if you needed to take a bus to UT-Arlington. Dallas' public bus routes' first bus of the weekday was intended to get to Griffin or Lamar just before 6, line up, and wait 5 minutes so passengers could transfer. But they were often late. Similar problem getting to Denton. How many kids went to El Centro and SMU just because they couldn't get anywhere else?
@@ruckusbeblack ugh I'm in DFW and feel the same about Arlington. Six flags isn't a positive for Arlington, Arlington is a negative for six flags lol
Being from Towson, just north of Baltimore, the Power Plant venue is not on my radar to go hang out. I was at DC's waterfront district and found it very enjoyable and kind of unique. Reminded me a tiny bit of Miami's Lincoln Rd. Speaking of Lincoln Rd, I was in Winchester, Va and their Main St. pedestrian mall is great. I didn't notice any missing teeth storefronts either.
fellow Marylander here! and i graduated from Towson University!
I’ve been to the ones in Norfolk, Philly, Arlington and St. Louis, honestly they’re not bad and either create a much needed district for families where the city fails to step in. In the case of Arlington or Philly it gives you a destination to gather for games versus just a parking lot.
To be fair the Live in Atlanta isn't downtown, they moved the Braves out of the city so it fits the whole suburban fake feel. They deserve it.
Agree - they are a symptom of a greater problem. They probably work best in conjunction with a big convention draw where attendees might look for less interesting chain operations.
I disagree. You state that these Live! places are taking up valuable real estate, but nothing interesting was there before so they are revitalizing the areas of the CBDs that had little to nothing before and added income sources for those CBDs.
Salt lake city is in the early development stage of downtown and I sure hope this doesn't happen. I sure won't be going there at all if they do allow a "Live" development
I was thinking the same thing. One thing though, Salt Lake already has similar developments in place. Like Gateway. There isn't enough of a market for the same stuff on the opposite side of Delta Center too.
The one by the ballpark in Arlington is pretty great. It’s also a short walk to Jerry World. People who can’t afford tickets to the Cowboys game go hang out at Live! lol. 😂
Good take on how cities are pandering to consumers by advertising and building short lived excitement that brings tremendous profits to cities as well as problems and challenges that eventually turns into bankrupt, neglected, empty spaces surrounded by urban blight!
The sports complex in Philly is not downtown.
I came here to say this, not even close to center city
Was also going to come in to say this. All of the Philly sports stadiums are in South Philadelphia and not Center City. Was really making my jaw clench each time Xfinity Live! was referred to as being "downtown."
Was going to say this. Our stadiums are effectively in an industrial park easier to access from NJ than Philly
Good I don’t have to say it
I hadn't heard of these things. We don't have them on the West coast. But then our downtowns are not doing so well either. Many cities have an old town or pioneer town with restored old buildings that have become bars and boutiques. They are like Live! s but vernacular, a product of the 70-80's.
I’m sure that the comments have told you plenty already, but KC’s is a FANTASTIC place to gather, and watch sports together. It’s routinely on the broadcasts for US Soccer games, and the Big 12 tournament.
That being said, the P&L district is financed in interesting ways, and has drawn plenty of criticism for that throughout the years.
Regardless, it was a key player in the recent redevelopment of the downtown area.
The battery is in Cumberland, not downtown Atlanta
I might be living under a rock but I work on 3rd and commerce, live a mile from downtown and ride my bike downtown literally every day in Nashville and I had no idea “Live Nashville” was a thing? I know that PBR thing is on 1st but had no idea this generic concept was something I needed to add to my list of things to think are dumb about downtown Nashville…
The one in Philly is not "downtown " just like the sports complexes are not downtown. They are in South Philly. No one in Philly or the surrounding suburbs considers this area downtown.
yup all the down the end of bsl definitely not center city
Great channel! Just a quick comment…the Philadelphia Live is far from the city center. It’s in a designated stadium district near the Navy Yard.
1:40 the battery at Truist park is nowhere near downtown Atlanta
We actually love Ballpark village in downtown next to the stadium!
A) gives us a destination pre and post game after a Cards game.
It also provides additional seating for the stadium.
B) during the Cards off season it’s a great place to go during the winter because it’s like a big indoor party patio.
Ballpark Village will be at capacity every single night during Cards games, home or away.
Its actually made the downtown area a little more safer. As we have one of the nastiness downtowns in all of America.
Baltimore came to my mind as you were introducing the video. I agree that Baltimore gets the formula right because of the combination of the power plant, adjacent parks areas , the refurbished waterfront , very good local restaurants and older-generation hotels nearby. If you squint right the development in Baltimore looks organic.---the power plant has the advantage of having been real rather than something whipped together out of fiberglass by the developers---it gives off a unique and whimsical steampunk vibe that attracts the eye.
The reason this downtown development works in Baltimore is that, at this moment, it is a city that might have been on the skids but is instead on the way up.
The cities you mentioned in the video are likely on the skids and very likely are on the way down. Any large bar/movies/video themed project is going to devolve into a sprawling seedy mess in a few months. Who would travel downtown to get stuck in what is basically a mall-sized Dave and Busters intermingled with twenty Applebees, a couple Spencers and a multiplex?
PS: Subtract Baltimore from the list and replace it with New Roc City in New Rochelle, New York. Now there's a seedy mess.
I agree with the undesirability of copy-pasted, uncreative, corporate development in downtown areas, but in the case of Norfolk, the Waterside district had been struggling for YEARS. It had been vacant and deteriorating, so having Live come in actually helped the area a lot and made it a place people wanted to be.
"Live!" seems like the most cultivated, artificial way to try and have fun but really just kill a few hours, braincells and your bank account. Looks totally unappealing to me. I'd rather try something totally new and find out I hate it rather than going to yet another chain celeb restaurant and pay for overpriced mediocre food while playing overpriced videogames. No thanks
Live in Arlington replaced acres and acres of otherwise empty parking.
Ottawa has "Lansdowne Live", where they redeveloped Lansdowne Park, next to Ottawa's Canadian Football League stadium, into one of these pseudo-entertainment/shopping districts around a decade ago. I don't think there's an official connection to the U.S. "Live" developments, the Ottawa "Live" is owned by a Canadian commercial real estate company, Trinity Group, but it's pretty much the exact same thing with chain stores and bland copy-paste architecture.
I'll admit that Lansdowne Live has a nice movie theatre but there's really nothing else there that's a draw for me and the bus-only transit connections suck compared to, say, South Keys, a large shopping plaza with a movie theatre a few miles further south on Bank Street, which will have two light rail stations when the rebuilt O-Train Trillium Line finally re-opens this fall. Lansdowne Live does have Ottawa's only Whole Foods but Whole Foods is a little too "upscale" for my wallet and, if I want to see a movie and go grocery shopping, I'll still go to South Keys instead since at least South Keys has a Walmart plus a Loblaws (Canada's biggest supermarket chain).
It also doesn't seem to make any money for the city.
I’ve frequent the one in Atlanta. It works because 1. It’s in the suburbs in area that was previously anchored by mall and shopping center. 2. It’s a designated entertainment zone meaning there is open container policy (similar to New Orleans) but the law is something that’s specific to the state of Georgia. However if those two things didn’t apply it would be boring
Went to the one in Arlington last month because the stadium was not opened yet and first thing I thought was this is just like the one in St. Louis but instead of Cardinals jerseys it was Rangers jerseys. Also, I live in downtown Nashville and had no clue we had one of these.
There is nothing in the world more lame than a canned, corporate fake potemkin village.
I agree. So many U.S. cities are so alike but absolutely no two cities are the exact same. When you explore these cities you notice the small cultural things that make it unique. I think focusing on that will make our cities stand out more instead of making every city a hellscape of parking lots chain stores and drive thrus
From St Louis. Just 20 years ago there was no ballpark village. The stadium was built in 06. Ballpark village has the cardinals hall of fame. I think it’s awesome what they did with Ballpark village. I guess if you don’t like baseball you don’t care. There will always be people in every American city that complain that there’s nothin to do 😂
The live villages in Baltimore, Norfolk etc. are basically replacements for the Harbor Malls that opened in the 80s! Basically Boston made a mall out of Faniel Hall and every other city tried to copy it! It worked in Boston cause it had a thriving downtown! Norfolk m Baltimore , ( even Tampa tried it next to the river next to Convention Center), failed cause they appealed to conventioneers/ tourists but locals never went! I feel these Live villages are Harbor Malls 2.0!
It's more of a Shelbyville idea anyway...
The KC Powr & Light District is very popular. Why do you hate it?
I wonder why people from all those nice suburbs around K.C. would come to the former downtown just to eat overpriced food and get drunk. That's not what I would call rebuilding a city's economy.
It draws people in to spend $. It actually works in a certain way. Pretty crowded weekend nights
Hughes Development remade NY Pier 17-Tin Bldg.-South St. Seaport starting around 10 yrs ago.
I'd rather have a 'LIVE" there! 15 min walk from home and I really can't be bothered to go. And they have quite a few vacancies in the most accessible walkable part.
The took away all mass-popularly priced food and shops (family and local office worker friendly) in favor of higher end, elite shop, Pier 17 a few expensive restaurants, outdoor spot to watch the river and Brooklyn Bridge, and roof concert venue, but most of the space is high-priced offices on the river.
Atlanta is starting to build a Live downtown across the street from Mercedes-Benz Stadium and State Farm Arena. And they're also in the design stage to build something similar to replace the Home Depot Backyard between the Mercedes Benz Stadium and the Georgia World Congress Center. Basically two of them right across the street from each other.
San Antonio has got to have one of the best downtowns with the River Walk.
Great take Kyle, gotta expect a Best Downtown list next - I'm in Chicago so you know my vote, but visited Austin last Feb and was very impressed with the downtown scene. Minneapolis ain't bad neither
All this trying to create a downtown is so ridiculous. My favorite example was the Bears supposed move to Arlington Heights. They wanted to build a stadium and some sort of fake downtown around it. They bought a very popular and lovely horse racing establishment, leveled it, and because Arlington Heights wouldn’t commit a lot of tax dollars to the project they said never mind and now they’re trying to build a new stadium on the lake front right next to the current stadium (Soldier Field), and once again they want help from the state to do it. Fortunately Gov Pritzger has stood his ground and said nope.
The Battery at Atlanta isn't remotely close to downtown, it's in Marietta, a suburb
The Philly stadiums are the own thing outside of downtown. Connected to the metro, yes. In downtown? its over 20mins outside of downtown. If Philly implemented congestion pricing, I would put it just outside of that zone since its just south of I-76 (I'd put the north end around Erie Av, then the river to the west south of the Art Museum (US 13/33rd St north of it. Kelly Drive is not tolled until you get off it within that area) and I-95 in the east (restrict the small riverfront area between Spring Garden and when Delaware Av becomes Richmond St at peak times)
Dear Geography King, you seem to have a love of board games based on the shirt you're wearing in this video and your previous mention of ticket to ride. Here's an idea for a video- top geography themed board games, or games that teach people about geography.
I think Waterside, the one in Downtown Norfolk is nuch smaller than the others, and unlike the others which were developed in areas that were originally not entertainment districts, the one in Norfolk was always an entertainment district. Its basically just a fancy food coart with a stage, some bars, and a giant TV. If anything, it serves as a transportation hub where people getting off the ferry can stop and get lunch on the way to the Amtrak station or the light rail/busses. Its also right next to the city's main park where events are held, so it plays a part in helping with some of the major festivals and providing a place to cool off and use the bathroom. Its definitely more of a venue than a district though.
What's really interesting is Norfolk's Waterside(where the Live operates there) did actually have a comparable development at the same location and it kinda hit. But they just, changed it? It was odd
Also, I'm pretty sure, as a matter of fact absolutely sure Louisville's market is smaller than Norfolk's although the central city is by far larger in Louisville.
I guess it's like a cruise, but on land.
Edit: I see a Megadeth vinyl. Are you a fan of any modern thrash? There's some great bands out there.
As many have already said. Atlanta's Battery is all the way in Cobb County, so it would fall in the "suburban" category. And I wouldn't ve surprised if they got that to draw people who would have to drive a while to get to their baseball games. It might attract local Cobb County residents too. ATL's downtown(vs midtown) portion struggles (but is undergoing more serious urban development around the Mercedes Benz area) but doesn't really need a "Live" because it has lots of truly Atlanta attractions in the Centennial Park area already. Also the Braves leaving Turner has been a net good for that part of downtown/Summer Hill. It basically has some positive(as positive as possible) gentrification.