@@emmetth3726 Ike (and crom as it is a rip off) up recovery is an easy counter and one of his biggest weakness in swordmans matchups (except the 2 that don't have counter moves) funnily enough.
I was one of the moderators (and Admin) in Serenes at the time he was nearly banned and can vouch on that. It's incredible to see how much worse he used to be elsewhere.
God, this was such a bizarre mix of nostalgia and secondhand embarrassment. I used to hang around on another one of these largely interchangeable "Fire Emblem [Noun]" forums, and I definitely recognise Inui, Reikken, and C475, at least by reputation. A strange, strange time, when miniscule 1-2 stat differences were considered to be overwhelming advantages over pesky little things like mobility and weapon triangle control, and presenting a strong argument meant acting like anyone who disagreed with you was an illiterate peasant. Even after people stopped obsessing over endgame stats quite so much, units like Hector and Oswin were still considered top-tier for a long time. It's really remarkable how far ahead of his time Reikken was, all things considered.
I can't even imagine things like movement not being the most well sought after stat. Surely everyone agrees that the boots is the strongest stat booster, even back then?
@@ddshocktrooper5604 I mean, I remember when it was "common knowledge" that Marcus was the worst unit in the game because he wasted exp and Nino was the best unit in the game. It feels like talking about the dark ages.
Honestly, you could make almost all the same arguments they make about Ike with Roy. Roy also has some of the best growths in his game, he has a personal weapon that's effective against cavaliers and armors, his support affinity is great and he supports with a lot of characters, he gets a promotion that boosts up his stats considerably, and he has the Binding Blade for 1-2 range and great damage (it's not unbreakable, but Hammerne solves that problem). Yet Ike is considered one of the best Lords while Roy is considered one of the worst, and it's really just because FE6 is a much harder game, which means the flaws of an Ike-like unit (reliant on growths and personal weapons, slow movement speed, locked to swords, has to be going for the objective, promotes like 20 chapters in) all become a lot more obvious.
Post chapter 21 Roy is one of the best units ever if you ask me. The Binding Blade is arguably the best weapon in the series. Plus 5 def and res, 1-2 range, effective against dragons and above 90% hit, Roy becomes a powerhouse.
@@thenightspider yeah but that doesn't matter when it comes to ranking him because it's such a small part of the game and he's dog shit for the rest of the game so
@@DiogoJ1 I know this is 1 year old, but it actually is a disadvantage. A "perfect run" isn't normal. If a unit can't even be sacrificed in a worst case scenario then that is already a disadvantage, no matter how small. If an unlucky crit activation won't end your run then it is indeed an advantage.
@@blackpants7385 Unlucky crit activations are extremely rare, unless you gamble with them in the first place. Either way you reset until you have cleared it whitout a single death.
@@DiogoJ1 Like I said, that's not how everyone plays the game. That is not the "normal". That's like saying that trainees in Sacred Stones are the best units in the game since you can just go to the tower and grind them after recruiting them.
@@blackpants7385 It's normal, because that's what most people do, as they should. A chapter isn't truely conquered if one let's a single unit die. What does grinding have to do with permadeath in the first place?
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx Reikkan? One of the few people in this video that was able to successfully evaluate Ike and Kieran while addressing apposing viewpoints with FACTS and LOGIC.
I think this Inui guy is also a smasher. Inui in the smash scene is infamous for being a meth addict and attacking someone with a katana. Apparently he is doing better now. He also made an FE11 rebalance romhack but I cant share it cause he only ever uploaded a prepatched rom to his facebook.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Inui Check the bottom of this page for details. The link to his Twitter basically confirms they're one in the same.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox yeah it has ti be the same guy, how many people could be named Inui and be obsessed with anime and fire emblem enough to make a romhack
heh. It is more complex than that. At the time siege tiles, mandatory use and special (final boss mostly) killing weapon were a lot more proeminent in the discussion. For example even if everyone agreed that Roy sucked he wasn't considered such a bad unit due to that utility. Still in debate to this day in some community.
Well at the time, the fact that a unit was auto deployed and could take the tile to win a chapter was valued due to the fact that 1 you needed them to finish the game 2 they would obviously appear in more chapters and as such people considered that a form of utility because they would struggle if those units stuck and so they trained them. Wierd I know but even to this day some people/community still debate on the value of that for of utility.
Its interesting that inui isn't convinced by a good argument but by a good reputation. He doesnt listen to the original post guy because he hasnt done well in tournaments yet. Many of his arguments were also "i do well in tournaments so I'm right." His reasoning about how to reason is fundamentally flawed
Ah, 2006 Fire Emblem. The days when people thought that Seth and Marcus weren't worth using, Ross, Ewan, and Ameila were the best units in 8, and Guy/Joshua were amazing units that you needed to have on your team while Cavaliers weren't very good. I don't think I've ever seen a community change stances so damn hard.
It's Funny because everybody probably just played really slow back then. With the increased prominence of gaming videos, streaming, speedrunning and stuff, playing efficiently became much more important than just simply finishing the game back then, which gives more incentive to train the lords and see them become absolutely powerful most of the time.
@@isssma0Not only that, the West’s limited access may have encouraged slow play. Sacred Stones was one of the few Emblems available, and that game encourages you to build up your units with the Tower of Valni - with an endgame Tower where you can put those units to the test.
The worst part of this whole thing is how the website decided that a few 'judges' get to decide who is right and who is wrong. Why Is their opinion more important than mine?
I get it, because some people are truly stupid and believe the hivemind, such as all the dudes except CATS in this thread, but the small group of judges can also fall victim to the hivemind, and it affects the outcome more
Based off what he said, I assume the judges have the same views that Inui has in regards to what characters are good or bad, so obviously he is going to value their judgement as more important than anyone else. But I guarantee if the judges didn't agree with Inui, he would instead constantly argue that the judges are just a few people and their opinion isn't better than anyone else's. He is totally one of those people that only considers something or someone relevant or important if it helps prove him right, anything else is fake, wrong, or irrelevant no matter how much evidence is showed in their face.
@@Firestar0513 every political debate exposed....seriously i mean thats how reality works even if someone in rival party are innocent just make so rumor and "evidence" then you look less bad even if thats not the case its still quite beneficial to negatively impact your opponent
Actual competitive non-FE debater here, having a judge is necessary in a competitive debate, where you have to decide whose arguments are more persuasive and effective. For just discussing units, like in this thread, there probably aren’t judges. However, if there weren’t judges, it would be impossible to judge who wins a debate in a tournament.
I know this comment is a year old, but it's clearly because most of these people only cared about was how having even 1 stat that's just a tiny, tiny bit higher, totally meant that you "TOTALLY OWNED AND DESTROYED THEM LMFAO!!! XD"
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox he went to jail for 1 assult charge and meth possession. He's out now, I've talked to him. He's not any better than he was back in 2006 comparing how he talked then vs now. He might honestly be worse.
It is amazing as a new Fire Emblem player to see this and just ... wow all those dishonest debate tactics and over-usage of paper stats. As someone who plays tank games, they taught me raw numbers don't always mean everything. What is funny is that historically even comparing the American 76mm cannon to the British 17 pdr, sure the 17 pdr penetrates more armor but the 76 also can penetrate any German vehicle at their thickest armor the 17 pdr could, except the Jagdtiger which neither gun was going to penetrate anyway.
Reikken has always been a hero. Absolutely instrumental for turning Serenes Forest into a place where people could actually have fun and interesting conversations about character viability and comparison.
simple easy pitfall. overkill doesn't make it better than enough. a kill is a kill in the end. comparing mag stats for physical units, yeah theres no point in comparing that, since its useless for them.
I spent all of my teenage years on the Fire Emblem boards on Neoseeker, and I have to say this video has brought back so many memories of that time in my life! I didn't know any of the guys on this video (I've never heard of FEF), but on Neoseeker it was also a close-knit community where everyone knows everyone and it could get pretty heated. There was one guy called "Eliwood the Slayer" who used to flame me to no end, but was a decent debater. There was also another guy called 'Insanity Prevails' who was also super ahead of his time like Reikken. I also engaged in a lot of debates, and it was mostly civil and I wasn't anything like Inui. But in one case recently I read some of my posts in a Rolf vs. Sothe thread and couldn't stop cringing at how bad my arguments and counters were. It's also just hilarious reading stuff I wrote when I was like 13-14, at how badly the posts and grammar are constructed. Cringe level = maximum.
@@jaysefgames1155 just wanted to jump in and say Sain has a 20% STR growths over Kent, and Kent only has a 5% growth in speed over Sain; Sain can bridge that gap easily with one speed wing, but Kent can never bridge that STR gap, unfortunately. Why does IS screw over the speed cavs ;u;
So when people say that Amelia has better growths than Seth, do they mean she has higher level gain averages? Because technically that’s true, but Seth is already at Amelia’s (theoretical by level of tolerance) best by the time you start the prologue.
"So when people say that Amelia has better growths than Seth" When they say that, they are wrong. Amelia has some of the lowest growths in the game, at a total of 270. Seth has some of the highest, at a total of 325.
@@insomniacsnorlax His promotion time is very long. As long as Hector's and Eliwood's promotion times. But Kieran can promote early, has canto, has Gamble. Overall great.
ah yes, the "can you beat the game without this unit argument". I cannot wait to tell everyone that laura (FE10) is superior to the royal laguz because you need her to progress early in the game.
Half way through the video when they argued that ike was better in every way, I think they forgot about 1-2 range and movement bonuses for mounted units.
This is the umpteenth time I've watched this video and personally, if I had the chance to, I have the perfect response to Inui here throwing his original argument back at him. "Mounted unit + 1-2 range weapon type + Path of Radiance Canto + Weapon Triangle edge over lance country = pwnage incarnate. There. Fixed your crummy argument."
This takes me back to my early days in the FE fandom. FES, FEF, FESS, SF, man. Now all except SF are essentially defunct. Thanks for the flashback. Remember when Matthew was always High tier in FE7 lists? Ha
"Ike is better because he is a forced deployment and he can seize and he gets a broken Sword at the end of the game" Roy does this as well but I doubt anyone would argue he's better than anyone else in his game.
@@DiogoJ1 tbh Roy's growths aren't even that bad compared to other units in his game, his main problem is promoting less than 10 chapters from the end of the game. Also I was using the main logic everyone else was using to prove a point, like CATS did. All everyone kept saying was that Ike was necessary to complete the game therefore he is a top tier unit who pwns Kieran (god 2006 was a time), so logic dictates that Roy would be in the exact same boat.
@@ScootsLoungeThey aren't bad. HP 80% STR 40% SKL 50% SPD 40% LUK 60% DEF 25% RES 30%. But compare them to Ike's and it's easy to understand why Ike is better: HP 75% STR 50% MAG 20% SKL 50% SPD 55% LUK 35% DEF 40% RES 40%. Basically, Ike can tank both physical and magical attacks better than Roy, is stronger and has significantly more SPD as well.
My head hurts. Anyways, Reikken wins. Really though, debating lords in "who's better" always ends up with one MAJOR factor being completely overlooked: by the design of the story, the lord ISN'T supposed to be the best unit... until the very end. (The exception is Sigurd, and that's because his story isn't the one for triumph. So naturally he dominates until his demise, which then sets up the actual story to perseverance in Gen 2.) Any Lord that is designed to triumph via storyline is SUPPOSED to vulnerable for much of the game. That's the entire point of storytelling! Have some initial adversity for the protagonist, build some rising action, see one huge knockdown to the mat for the hero after confronting the main villain, and then see him/her ascend (while getting some OP promotion+item). Literally, storytelling commands that Ike isn't "the man" until the end of the game. So of course Kieran is the better option for a majority of the game. This Inui fool and all his buddies are soooooo ignorant to the basics and soooooo biased towards their fanhood that it's embarrassing by proxy... even 13 years later. They're not debaters; they're marks.
Tbh they are debater but its like martial arts one is brute force another chanelling the kinetic energy Aka raw power or efficiency Inui is a monkey the rekkai....ummm the mvp is the calculator but man is it dumb to watch I heard of blind faith but this is another lv
First I thought this would be you debating someone who actually thought that, and then I was disappointed for the first minute when I saw it wasnt. Then you got into the actual video and it was so much better than I ever could've imagined.
Inui was always such a goofball. I vaguely remember him announcing his intentions to join the pro Smash circuit, and haven't heard from him since. www.tapatalk.com/groups/fireemblemspritez/reikken-vs-sentenal-t4455.html The Echidna vs Miledy debate was an absolute classic... or at least that's what I remember. I don't have time to read stuff like this anymore, let alone write it, but my memories only grow fonder over time.
Mekkkah noooo. Those debates were painful to read even back then! Oh well. Yup I remember those days well.I think I've seen Inui before, and oh my goodness my head... Some of those names bring back memories: Eaichu, Reikken. It was a very different time in the fandom. Admittedly if you tear into some of my old content it's forgivable. I used to be a big defender of the 20/20 stat deal when you really gotta factor in a lot more into a character than just growth rates.
I think it's a fair argument to make that FE9 Ike is probably one of, if not the, most mediocre lords in the series. He's hardly ever a liability like Roy, but until he promotes he is greatly held back unlike Ephraim, Hector or even his FE10 self, and even then Maniac mode challenges him to do well until he gets Ragnell.... which makes him pretty amazing, but for only 2 chapters. They are two important chapters, but two chapters nontheless. I will argue one thing though, Mekkah. I will say that FE9 goes out of its way to keep Ike usable. What I mean by this is that the game throws Ike a bone each time a new challenge arises so he can keep up somewhat. First example, Chapters 1-3. In these chapters, most enemies wield axes and Ike is your only sword wielder, so he gets to have WTA and it makes him somewhat dodgy to perform better. Chapter 4 and on introduces armor and cav foes, and Ike just so happens to get the Regal Sword right then. Now, is the Regal Sword amazing? Not too much, no. But it does have some nice built in crit, and Ike can easily for example take on the Poleaxe cav in Ch 6 better than anyone else, a unit that poses a great threat to even Titania if RNG hates you. Then we get to Chapters 12 and 15, maps where EXP floods to you if you position characters right and they do enough damage. And what does Ike happen to get in Chapter 11? A laguzslayer, and out of himself, Zihark and Mia, he is probably your best candidate for it (unless for some reason you already promoted Marcia and leveled her sword rank, but if she's already a Falconknight then I doubt she needs effective weapons on those guys. Finally, Ike promotes pretty much right when the enemies do, too, and this does help him. Ike has some of the games better promo gains stat-wise, and due to his growths he can begin to snowball pretty well. Again, not OP at all, but pretty reliable once he's a lord, and of course he is one of the best units when he gets the Ragnell. I would consider myself an Ike fanboy, but man I can't wait to hear the horrible arguments from 2006 about him. This will be fun. EDIT: I realized that perhaps "mediocre" was too harsh, as the word "average" would be a better fit for how to describe FE9 Ike. The rest of my statement remains my opinion, but I don't think Ike deserves to be considered negatively; rather, he just lacks the positives that make the good units in FE9 (fliers, cavs, 1-2 range units) stand out.
I... Never had these issues with ike. I paired him up with lethe and the two just dodged everything. He isn't broken like ephraim or hector. I think if anything he is just right
Out of curiosity though, is this from experience on English Normal and Hard or Japanese-exclusive Maniac mode? The reason Ike does well on the English versions is because enemies in FE9 are not very stat inflated as well as most of them only having 1 range weapons, meaning Ike can enemy phase well. In Maniac, most axe and lance units by mid-game have 2 range options and Ike gets far less done on enemy phase than he should. Fliers and cavs are also incredibly OP in FE9 due to canto, and most of these units have 1-2 range from the beginning to help them charge forward and clear maps quickly. Ike's Earth affinity is a great boon, don't get me wrong, and his support pool is excellent as well, but on Maniac it isn't enough to make him overpowered like Titania, Marcia, Jill, Kieran etc. Only when he gets the Ragnell can Ike be considered truly OP, but sadly he doesn't have it long enough to make as much as an impact as it should. No worries though, in FE10 Ike is literally a demigod and one of the best units for the entire time you have him.
@@EZog58 american hard. And i can tell right off thr bat, that I will be unable to change your mind. At least you aren't rude like most are when in your position. With that said, who were your favorite 3 units in path of radiance? Mine were Ike Lethe and Reyson. Reyson is in my opinion the best dancer unit in the franchise in regards to utility
First of all, I appreciate your civility on this and I mean absolutely no disrespect to your opinion either. I've done 20+ playthroughs on FE9 English Normal/Hard, and a few of those were even Ike solo runs. A few years ago I would have said Ike was the best lord due to his growths and how well he caps his stats by lvl 20 Lord. Ike is still to this day my favorite FE character and I always enjoy using him regardless. Mekkah opened my eyes a little more to efficiency when it comes to FE runs, and I will admit that after I started taking his thought process into account I started being able to accomplish ranked runs in GBA and SNES FE's much more efficiently, especially because turn count was a problem for me back in the day. I definitely agree with you on Reyson, he's pretty amazing in FE9 and makes certain chapters far more bearable in Maniac. Maniac mode loves to give most mages siege tomes, so being able to run them down faster is so helpful. I think it's best to save all laguz stones for Reyson, because he gets more out of them than any other unit! Lethe is also really good, she and Janaff are the best combat laguz in FE9 imo because of their immediate shift. If you clear maps fast enough, they never even revert so that makes them very strong. I find them to be efficient "delete buttons", or units that are meant for targeting and taking out big threats on the player phase. As for my favorite three units, I would have to say Jill, Mist and Titania. Titania is consistent all the way through the game with great bases and growths, Mist is the best healer due to canto and actually player phases well with the Sonic Sword once she promotes, and Jill is a fantastic bEXP candidate as once she levels enough she can charge into maps completely unafraid of anything once she has a full guard equipped. FE9 has a lot of terrain fliers can move over to progress through maps more easily, and Jill uses this greatly to her advantage. As honorable mentions I do have a soft spot for Ike and Tormod. As I said, Ike isn't terrible, he just isn't amazing. But once he gets Ragnell, he can solo maps with ease, which is so satisfying. Tormod gets looked down upon a lot, but he has decent bases, good weapon ranks, good growths, an ok join time, and an amazing personal skill. Being able to keep up with cavs makes him a bona-fida Mageknight, and he's even somewhat bulky for a mage too. I think he is also a great bEXP candidate, he never lets me down even in Manaic.
I've played the game a lot, and I've had some really good and some really bad Ikes pre-promotion. Like if he gets defense or strength blessed he's going to perform a lot better. So I can see why someone who's played the game once or twice might have taken a huge shine to Ike. They haven't seen the Ikes that have 8 strength at level 15. He can always find a job to do on each map, however, and I think that makes him a pretty high quality lord. He shines not because he's got the flashiest stats but because the game gives him so much he can do. And then in the lategame that culminates into his promotion which enables him to start kicking some ass regardless of bad luck.
Oh man this is such a throwback. I didn't frequent FE Fusion in those days, but 06-07 I participated in a few debates. Thanks for highlighting how far the community has come. These are the fan discussions I remember from when I was a kid. A personal favorite was a debate about support pairings, and I won the match arguing Raven/Lucius was better than Erk/Pent. One of my main points was "bro you can't even get A rank with Erk/Pent". Lots of good stuff, will need to find the post.
I love the arguments of Overkill being greater than being enough. I cant remember the last time dealing 80+ damage mattered as opposed to damage that was just enough to kill, when both are a ORKO.
This made me want to use Kieran next time I play through FE9, I benched him on my firt time playing, but now I'm regretting my choice, even if Astrid and Titana were my 2 best mounted units Edit: also I love how when people say aether > sol, they're clearly not taking the fact that aether can miss into account lol
@@mitchellepstein9956 he's so good, I replayed PoR recently and him, Oscar, and Titania were 3 of my MVPs, cannot stress how good the mounted units in PoR are (except for Makalov, fuck that guy)
He's not though. Who was been tanking most physical enemies in the game? Hector, that's who. Sain can't compete with that. And don't bother bringing movement, I would trade movement for more stats everyday of the week, as long as their movement isn't 4 or less, I see little reason to have more movement other than to save villages, recruit units, secure chests and little else.
@@DiogoJ1 Sorry, Sain can't hear you from the other side of the map. Besides with his high atk and usually enough speed and def, Sain kills enemies and has no trouble surviving. Plus there's the whole promotion issue, Sain easily reaches promotion levels at least 5 chapters ahead of Hector. More on Hector mode Sure, Hector can accually tank better, but Sain brings so much more else to the table.
ok, personally, i think oswin and marcus can tank pretty well too but thats just me. so before i start to analyise their stats im going to set the bases of what im about to discuss. i will be assuming lyn mode and hector mode are played. sains bases are lv1 hp19 str8 skl4 spd6 luk4 def6 res0; growths hp80 str60 skl35 spd40 luk35 def20 res20. hector bases are lv1 hp19 str7 skl4 spd5 luk3 def8 res0; growths hp90 str60 skl45 spd35 luk30 def50 res25. sain joins in ch1, lyn mode ends at ch10, rejoins in ch16 while hector joins in ch11. sain has 10 chapters before ch16 and hector has 5 chapters before ch16. lets say that sain gains 4/3 lvs per chapter(total 13) while hector gains 2 lvs per chapter(total 10). sains stats are hp29.4 str15.8 skl8.55 spd11.2 luk8.55 def8.6 res 2.6 while hectors stats are hp28 str13 skl8.5 spd8.5 luk6 def13 res2.5. so sain has 1 more hp, 2 more str, same skill, 3 more speed, 2 more luck, 5 less defence, same resistance. sain basically trades 2 more damage and 3 speed for 5 defence. however, there are lyn mode exclusive stat boosters that sain has access to that hector does not. there is an angelic robe in ch 6 and an energy ring so sain acctualy can have 8 more hp than hector at 36.4 and 4 more attack at 17.8. there is also a knight crest avalible in lyn mode as well as in the next chapter(ch17). so sains stats can potentialy be hp38.4 str18.8 skl9.5 spd12.2 luk8.55 def10.6 res3.6. at the same point of the game sain is looking at having 10 more hp, 5 more str, 1 more skl, 4 more speed, and 1 more res while hector has 3 more def. so hector is losesing to sain in almost every stat metric in the game. sain has better bulk than hector if he gets hit 3 or less times. he has better damage output and better avoid. sain is also a full speed teir above hector as well as having full control of the weapon triangle. sain also has several class advantages he is mounted so he can canto after rescueing, droping, visiting, and tradeing. onto movement. im not sure what you mean because saving villages, recruiting units, securing chests seem important to me. i like recruiting priscilla and getting the brave axe. a lot of rewards/objectives are difficult to reach without the extra move like saving the 3 caelin soldiers or saving zephiel. more move also allows you to get to specific choke points faster, gain better position and be more flexible with your stratagies
@@sirofcoffee701 Sorry, Sain can't hear us from death's door. And Hector laughs at him for being on the other side of the map, when he should be with the group in the first place, helping clear out enemies. So does Hector, but better, since he has way less trouble surviving thanks to his great DEF. He's not as fast as Sain doesn't particularly impress in that department either, usually only having 3 SPD points more than Hector at lv 20 before promotion. Promotion isn't an issue when one has 20 STR and 17 DEF, can tank pretty much virtually any physical until his promotion. The only thing Sain brings is movement, and I don't need movement for the most part.
@@DiogoJ1 Do not underestimate the power of movement. Sure, you might be able to get through chapters by turtling. Using high def units and take like 30 turns. But using a unit like Sain can help with a more proactive strategy. Clearing the way for thiefs, rushing out and clearing a group of reenforcements to prevent getting overwhelmed. Killing that one mage in the backline that could be trouble. Not to start with chapters that have secondary objectives. Plus the promotion does matter, because Sain will be able to get more stats from the promotion bonus. With that and a triangle advantage against every melee unit he becomes quite hard to kill even if you promote him at level 15. Not to say Hector is bad, with the other two axe fighters sucking so much and him having the wolf beil + defence, Hector probably the best answer to a lot of lance units. Though if you want a cavalier that's harder to kill, there are always Lowen and Marcus
How is comparing Ike to a mounted unit in PoR fair at all? XD Mounted units are nuts in the tellius series, PoR especially Edit: Ike v. Astrid might not even be fair XD
I'd consider myself a more casual player of fe but in my time between when I first started some 1-2 years ago I want to say, I've at least learned that being "enough" is all it takes to qualify a unit as really good. You dont need the highest Str or Spd stat, you just need enough to do damage reliably, which Reikken pointed out many times. So if both do enough and are pretty equal stat wise, it would logically come down to weapon and move type, which Keiran beats Ike in. Axes have higher might and low forge cost along with reliable 1-2 range for pretty much all the game. As for move, all I need to say is Cav with fe9 canto.
If there's ever a solely mekkkah PME we gotta make the argument war arc with these two. Also i had no idea you would do voices, but i'm so happy you did lol.
If I'm dead honest. The fact that Kieran is a cavalier makes him way better to me. Like ikes cool and all. But if I really need a unit in another spot a cav is gonna be way more useful for repositioning. But hey maybe I'm too used to Shadow dragon and it's million cavalier reclassing.
I always considered Ike an OP character who’s limited to swords. Which, yes, makes him no where near top tier. Being limited to adjacent enemies sucks but you can still throw him in a crowd of enemies and he won’t die.
Yeah, the swordlock is like a broken leg on what could've been among the best units in the game. I think it's genuinely impressive that in spite of it, he's *still* one of the better foot units in the game by sheer force of stats alone.
Nice video, I know/have met in person, Inui from the smash brawl scene. Can confirm his personality is exactly as witnessed in the video. Debate tournaments based on how the arguments are formed rather than actual content seems SUPER biased. That Nick guy made no points and only was there to defend Inui lol.
So about 6 months ago me and a friend of mine played PoR over the course of 2 and a half weeks with the person playing alternating between chapters and resets. When we first got Kieran, I could tell he was both 1. pretty damn good, and 2. most likely better than Ike on average. Now our Ike was hella RNG blessed, having 4 near perfect level ups early on, in each of them getting HP, Strength, Speed, Skill, and Defense. I looked at Kierans base stats, level, and the fact that he used axes and said "You know this guy's probably better than Ike on average." My friend look at me and said "Wait seriously?" We looked up the average stats for level 12 PoR Ike (the level out Ike was at that point, it was a pretty casual playthrough) and we both saw that yeah, Kieran is better than an average Ike at this point. We also determined more advantages such as Axe usage in a lance heavy game, immediate 1-2 range access, a mount, more damage due to using axes, weapon triangle adavntage most of the time, and being able to promote immediately upon join time. Our Ike was still capable of holding his own but Kieran still did better than him for most of the game until Ike's promotion and the gaining of Ragnell, even if they were still pretty close in terms of effectiveness for us. Our Ike did eventually surpass Kieran upon promotion, but Kieran still did about equally well all the way till the end. I have plenty of fond memories of using Kieran, so this was amazing and hilarious to watch. We really didn't know all that much back in 2006 did we?
honestly, this if effectively a pitfalls video on the fact that people rate overkill combat above map utility, and that's wrong for the most part. if 2 units can both kill an enemy, but one does it with 30 damage over the enemy's max hp and the other just about manages but is on a horse, that makes the latter unit more useful. a couple of years ago, i probably would have gone for the overkill combat too, but i've learned a lot since getting more into FE and following content creators, and i'm glad that you teach people these things mekkkah, i know it's helped me to enjoy the series a whole lot more :)
I had to stop for a second after one of the Ike fanboys said that Hector > Sain. I am a FE noob and I played on Eliwood Normal Mode and I understood that Sain is better. Help
I can't say I wouldn't have joined in on the idiots side in this one back in the day... But seriously, "Can't die" and "Must Seize" as selling points? A unit who gets you game over if he dies, but is required to complete a mission objective has a name in video games. It's called an 'escort'. By this logic, the defenseless civilian your badass soldier has to protect in countless games in the oft-dreaded Escort Mission has a couple of arguments as to why they're better than the main character.
Ugghh....that is very toxic debate, Dude. It almost made me sick. I dont really want to even read this. Almost the same topics has has been thrown out.
Ike is among my top 5 favorite characters, but i'm also one of them casuals that only plays on hard mode and play the units I like over optimal units and I do just fine. good video always enjoy your content.
The way near everyone went against Reikkan... it was all backwards. Seems like nearly everyone else was high on the bandwagon and turned a blind eye on Inui.
I know I’m late but whatever. Can we take Oscar into account here? Considering the support convos Ike and Oscar can give each other 30 avoid at A support and that would be around the time you get Kieran. Meanwhile Kieran has to wait 8 chapters to get a worse A support bonus since Kieran is wind. At that point, Ike has already promoted meaning you’re going to be throwing him into combat again so he can prepare for end game. Also, Kieran has trouble doubling due to his lower speed and attacks being heavier, although I don’t know for sure if that countered by his strength. And sure, you could get him a forged weapon but that says more about the weapon rather than Kieran. Also, while both Ike and Kieran have bad res stats, Ike has a decent chance of dodging with his boosted avoid against enemies with long range magic in hard to reach places, which this game throws a lot at you although this can be minimized with pure water. Edit: since it came up in the video after I made the comment thought I should add a few things. He says his supports aren’t better but Ike has arguably the support element in the game as earth, what Oscar has. Kieran has wind which is still good but it’s not 30 avoid at A support good. Plus Ike and Oscar are available from near the beginning of the game so you’ll be getting that support right around the time you get Kieran. Meanwhile Keiran has to wait 8 chapters to get his A support with Oscar. This’ll happen after Ike has already promoted. Their averages at lvl 1 promote are pretty even outside of speed and res which go to Ike. And Ike isn’t weighed down by axes. So he says Kieran doubles but I have never seen him double outside of slow units like armored knights. I guess Kieran would have the slight edge due to weapon triangle advantage so I’ll give him that. Unless I’m mistaken, to double consistently, you need to give Kieran a forged weapon. It’s not that big a problem since money isn’t really an issue but like I said earlier, it says more about the weapon than about Kieran because you could just as easily forge Ike a more damaging sword. And yes, you can ward spell or pure water Kieran to temporarily minimize what usually would be lethal or crippling damage from long range casters, but you’re either going to have to be creative with your healer or your going to have to limit what Kieran can do on his turn which you will want to take advantage of considering he is a mounted class. Also, while Kieran can promote earlier than Ike I almost always find that they both promote around the same time anyways. My last play through of PoR, Kieran was lvl 2 paladin by the time Ike promoted. So it’s not Kieran is going to have a huge level advantage at that point in the game. The only thing I think Kieran has over Ike is having 1-2 range options all game and the extra movement/ canto of mounted class. They are significant but I don’t think it’s as significant as the A support Ike will have with Oscar already by the time you get Kieran. And because I’m dumb and forgot, if you A support Ike and Oscar you can only B support Keiran and Oscar due to the support limit making an already worse support that much more so. The only other two are with Rhys and Marcia. Rhys support is bad since you don’t want him in the front line anyway. Marcia is good but she can A support Tanith with the Earth element and give them both Oscar levels of avoidance so you might not want to A support him with Marcia anyway. Kieran clearly lacks in support due to the fact that all his supports have superior options, one of which include Ike’s support with Oscar which arguably could be considered the best in the game. I think Kieran definitely has an argument but I think Ike is better. It just takes better arguments than growth% and Ragnell which very few people have making it super easy to argue against.
>This is like trying to prove that Sain is more useful than Hector. But isn't Sain, like... actually more useful than Hector? I think they were onto something with that Lucia comment, though.
Considering that Hector is the best unit in Blazing Sword... It's a similiar comparison. Although I believe Kieran has a better chance of being on Ike's level than Sain does to Hector. Hector just has godly DEF and STR, which Sain can only compete in the STR department. Kieran on the other hand, has both STR and DEF going for him, but his lack of RES, lack of a prf weapon makes him at least inferior to Ike.
@@infactanoose Oswin suffers from being slower, not being able to use axes, the better weapon type, and have lower promotion gains. Even his movement is lower. Also, Hector outperforms him in STR by a landslide. Oswin is good, but he's no top 10 unit.
Damn, this brings me back. I used to be super active on Fire Emblem Planet: there were so many cool FE forums back then. Now everyone lives in Serenes Forest and reddit. Wild how things change.
Roy is also in smash, and he sucks in both his own game and in smash because being a swordfighter that excells at close range makes him among the worst of the "disjointed long hitbox" melee characters
Sorry for being a noob but why it does matter if a character is better then other one if the game don't have a competitive scene neither multiplayer battles.
So, around the time of these original posts I found something like this (and I think this post too xD) and I was like. "Man... this community is so childish. I feel bad for Reikken/insert guy with common sense here. If guys like Inui/insert superior masterbater (I mean idiot debater) thinks this is an arguement then I dont really want to be a part of these guys." Coming back over a decade later to see the community, I'm glad I found ya first Mekkah! Watching your stuff has been a great and made me more interested in a series I already loved!
good stuff
would you say h4x stuff?
They hated Jesus because He told them the truth.
"Kieran is better than Ike."
"Shut up!"
You were right and you deserve praise
you were right dude. But Ike is in Smash. The favorites of Mekkiah are not. Therefore. The fanboy wins the biggest prize.
I’m sorry you had to deal with such idiots back then
I'm just glad Inui pointed out Ike's greatest asset against Kieran: His higher average magic stat.
Don't you know, magic is everything.
Wooh yeah, without that Magic stat Ike would be *irredeemable.*
Is it normal that my ike have higher res and mag tham atk and def?
Hey that sonic sword will do nice 5 damage to knights leter on, just you wait.
XD I had to restart FE9 once because Ike had lots of magic but had gotten extremely strength screwed XD
Why are these kids so focused on countering each other's points?
Do they not realize Counter is worthless in FE9?
The casuals learned it from Smash
@@emmetth3726 Ike (and crom as it is a rip off) up recovery is an easy counter and one of his biggest weakness in swordmans matchups (except the 2 that don't have counter moves) funnily enough.
@@corsicasanova Just stand at the ledge and spam counter.
@@Chadius
Touchè
Chad Serrant
letge*
Jesus I was not expecting to see myself showing up in a video in 2019 from the FEF days. Lucia still the best don't @ me bros.
Absolute legend
@@of5606 which were you?
I happened to think that part was hilarious.
@@JM-fh1tv shes definitely the prettiest imo, but the best...? Well... I suppose anyone's better than Mia but still
@@JM-fh1tv does anyone really care about his opinions though? Lol
I was one of the moderators (and Admin) in Serenes at the time he was nearly banned and can vouch on that. It's incredible to see how much worse he used to be elsewhere.
ThunderManEX when you say “he” who are you referring to?
@@MicDISCO Inui
I've heard horror stories about a Smash player going by the tag Inui. Would this be the same person?
@@thepotato513 Judging based on this and the wiki, their first names are both Lucas so it's definitely possible.
@@thomastrautman5855 he has the same last name too actually
Inbe4 Reikken is Mekkah's alt.
Reikken, Mekkkah. The number of K's doesn't match. DESTROYED. GGNORE.
What if he was actually Inui and this is Mekkah's redemption arc?
@@killean2645
What when is the Radd Quetz anime coming out?
@@killean2645 Nono, Mangs is Inui, how do you think he knows Mekkah is Reikken?
Mekkkah, I mean, you put your own voice to Reikken, and people and yourself usually write your name with two K’s, so...
God, this was such a bizarre mix of nostalgia and secondhand embarrassment. I used to hang around on another one of these largely interchangeable "Fire Emblem [Noun]" forums, and I definitely recognise Inui, Reikken, and C475, at least by reputation. A strange, strange time, when miniscule 1-2 stat differences were considered to be overwhelming advantages over pesky little things like mobility and weapon triangle control, and presenting a strong argument meant acting like anyone who disagreed with you was an illiterate peasant. Even after people stopped obsessing over endgame stats quite so much, units like Hector and Oswin were still considered top-tier for a long time. It's really remarkable how far ahead of his time Reikken was, all things considered.
Planet? FESS?
@@Mekkkah
Fire Emblem Planet, yeah! The one with all the sprite resources.
I can't even imagine things like movement not being the most well sought after stat. Surely everyone agrees that the boots is the strongest stat booster, even back then?
@@ddshocktrooper5604 I mean, I remember when it was "common knowledge" that Marcus was the worst unit in the game because he wasted exp and Nino was the best unit in the game. It feels like talking about the dark ages.
RenegadePronoun Lmao, dark ages. Great way to describe those times.
"Only Ike can seize, therefore he's the best unit in the game"
Guess that means Roy is the best unit in FE6.
Honestly, you could make almost all the same arguments they make about Ike with Roy. Roy also has some of the best growths in his game, he has a personal weapon that's effective against cavaliers and armors, his support affinity is great and he supports with a lot of characters, he gets a promotion that boosts up his stats considerably, and he has the Binding Blade for 1-2 range and great damage (it's not unbreakable, but Hammerne solves that problem).
Yet Ike is considered one of the best Lords while Roy is considered one of the worst, and it's really just because FE6 is a much harder game, which means the flaws of an Ike-like unit (reliant on growths and personal weapons, slow movement speed, locked to swords, has to be going for the objective, promotes like 20 chapters in) all become a lot more obvious.
They probably would say that lol
Post chapter 21 Roy is one of the best units ever if you ask me. The Binding Blade is arguably the best weapon in the series. Plus 5 def and res, 1-2 range, effective against dragons and above 90% hit, Roy becomes a powerhouse.
@@thenightspider yeah but that doesn't matter when it comes to ranking him because it's such a small part of the game and he's dog shit for the rest of the game so
Binding Blade + Only unit able to seize + Only unit that can't die + Rapier + Required to get best ending = Pwnage Incarnate
Imagine being so deluded you think Ike's dying causing a game over is a point in his favour
It's not a point against him either, that's for sure. A perfect run requires nobody dying in the first place, so it's redundant.
@@DiogoJ1 I know this is 1 year old, but it actually is a disadvantage. A "perfect run" isn't normal. If a unit can't even be sacrificed in a worst case scenario then that is already a disadvantage, no matter how small. If an unlucky crit activation won't end your run then it is indeed an advantage.
@@blackpants7385 Unlucky crit activations are extremely rare, unless you gamble with them in the first place. Either way you reset until you have cleared it whitout a single death.
@@DiogoJ1 Like I said, that's not how everyone plays the game. That is not the "normal". That's like saying that trainees in Sacred Stones are the best units in the game since you can just go to the tower and grind them after recruiting them.
@@blackpants7385 It's normal, because that's what most people do, as they should. A chapter isn't truely conquered if one let's a single unit die.
What does grinding have to do with permadeath in the first place?
So many anime avatars, so many opinions, so little value
Of course,
Interesting Argument.
I mean Reikkan has an anime pfp and they destroyed everyone.
@@xela4854
Hm?
What do you mean?
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx Reikkan? One of the few people in this video that was able to successfully evaluate Ike and Kieran while addressing apposing viewpoints with FACTS and LOGIC.
@@xela4854
They didn't have to go that far.
Just use both.
Its like comparing Alan to Roy.
"Next you're going to tell me Sain is better than Hector."
...
Yes, we will.
Also that Lucia post was definitely the highlight.
DolphinDingus 7 mov > 5. Swords and lance > axe. Free promotion > forced promotion
@@ojutay8375 I love Lucia and she's cool but like she's really really bad.
@@tootsie_
What about Sigrun?
Her bases are great!
I will take Hector any day over Sain with his godly DEF.
@@DiogoJ1 I'd rather have a character that can actually get to the fight, thank you very much.
This becomes funnier if you imagine that the two main debaters are just the anime girls in their profile pictures debating fire emblem strats.
Reikenn's pfp perfectly reflects how done they are.
Especially when Innes says Kieran is sexier hahaha
I think this Inui guy is also a smasher. Inui in the smash scene is infamous for being a meth addict and attacking someone with a katana. Apparently he is doing better now. He also made an FE11 rebalance romhack but I cant share it cause he only ever uploaded a prepatched rom to his facebook.
> attacking someone with a katana
Never go full neckbeard
Just checked on the Smash Wiki. Yep, it's the same person. Wonder if they've actually seen this?
Wait he actually did that?
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Inui Check the bottom of this page for details. The link to his Twitter basically confirms they're one in the same.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox yeah it has ti be the same guy, how many people could be named Inui and be obsessed with anime and fire emblem enough to make a romhack
Strong Elitist DESTROYS small casual WEEB with BASES & AVERAGES
heh. It is more complex than that. At the time siege tiles, mandatory use and special (final boss mostly) killing weapon were a lot more proeminent in the discussion. For example even if everyone agreed that Roy sucked he wasn't considered such a bad unit due to that utility. Still in debate to this day in some community.
Pierre-François Casanova What?
Well at the time, the fact that a unit was auto deployed and could take the tile to win a chapter was valued due to the fact that
1 you needed them to finish the game
2 they would obviously appear in more chapters
and as such people considered that a form of utility because they would struggle if those units stuck and so they trained them. Wierd I know but even to this day some people/community still debate on the value of that for of utility.
I wonder if I would be right despite making a joke out of it but I guess that's how the Lyn fandom started xD
Pierre-François Casanova Uh did you respond to the wrong comment? I’m really confused.
Mekkahs voice for Inui was very similar to the voice Mangs gave to Kellik in his The Last Promise LP.
He kinda sounds like ColdSteel the Hedgehog, no?
Its interesting that inui isn't convinced by a good argument but by a good reputation. He doesnt listen to the original post guy because he hasnt done well in tournaments yet. Many of his arguments were also "i do well in tournaments so I'm right." His reasoning about how to reason is fundamentally flawed
I can say the same thing about religion oh shit i cant i might offend someone
Dude wasnt using *Dialectical Materialism*
Yaaaaaa, that's inui in a nutshell.
@@michaelmagnimedia3331 that literally makes no sense. Christianity is better because I do better in debates than Judaism?
I love ike, but some fans go way too far to the point of obsessive. Including obsessive hatred for him.
I wholeheartedly agree.
that's the same for every popular char so wtv.
@@ZER0lPT wtv?
wtv=whatever
@@ZER0lPT i do not understand the logic behind that choice of abbreviations
Ah Inui...
You mean the guy who tried to argue Fir > Lot on that FE6 Tier list on serenes forest a few years ago against Dondon?
BTW Makkah you should do this for others such as Diogo and Ayami next time you get a chance lol.
Yep
Fir? You mean that unit I almost killed trying to recruit?
I mean both Fir and Lot are garbage tier lol?
@@tootsie_ lot isnt garbage tier. He is one tier higher.
Ah, 2006 Fire Emblem. The days when people thought that Seth and Marcus weren't worth using, Ross, Ewan, and Ameila were the best units in 8, and Guy/Joshua were amazing units that you needed to have on your team while Cavaliers weren't very good.
I don't think I've ever seen a community change stances so damn hard.
And Lyn is very strong
I am in this post, and I don't like it.
Lyn is actually strong? Or you just being sarcastic? I think she is strong early game only
It's Funny because everybody probably just played really slow back then. With the increased prominence of gaming videos, streaming, speedrunning and stuff, playing efficiently became much more important than just simply finishing the game back then, which gives more incentive to train the lords and see them become absolutely powerful most of the time.
@@isssma0Not only that, the West’s limited access may have encouraged slow play.
Sacred Stones was one of the few Emblems available, and that game encourages you to build up your units with the Tower of Valni - with an endgame Tower where you can put those units to the test.
Inui violated the most important rule of FE debate. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE MEANS NOTHING.
Honestly the most important rule of debate in general.
The worst part of this whole thing is how the website decided that a few 'judges' get to decide who is right and who is wrong. Why Is their opinion more important than mine?
I get it, because some people are truly stupid and believe the hivemind, such as all the dudes except CATS in this thread, but the small group of judges can also fall victim to the hivemind, and it affects the outcome more
Based off what he said, I assume the judges have the same views that Inui has in regards to what characters are good or bad, so obviously he is going to value their judgement as more important than anyone else. But I guarantee if the judges didn't agree with Inui, he would instead constantly argue that the judges are just a few people and their opinion isn't better than anyone else's. He is totally one of those people that only considers something or someone relevant or important if it helps prove him right, anything else is fake, wrong, or irrelevant no matter how much evidence is showed in their face.
I'm curious as to who appoints these judges and based on what.
@@Firestar0513 every political debate exposed....seriously i mean thats how reality works even if someone in rival party are innocent just make so rumor and "evidence" then you look less bad even if thats not the case its still quite beneficial to negatively impact your opponent
Actual competitive non-FE debater here, having a judge is necessary in a competitive debate, where you have to decide whose arguments are more persuasive and effective. For just discussing units, like in this thread, there probably aren’t judges. However, if there weren’t judges, it would be impossible to judge who wins a debate in a tournament.
I think it's funny that no one really brings up Ike's availability, which is like his biggest advantage
I know this comment is a year old, but it's clearly because most of these people only cared about was how having even 1 stat that's just a tiny, tiny bit higher, totally meant that you "TOTALLY OWNED AND DESTROYED THEM LMFAO!!! XD"
The ultimate plot twist:
"And guys... My old username back in 2006... *WAS INUI.* "
Well appearently Inui is currently serving multiple life sentences in jail for several felony charges...
@@JM-fh1tv oof
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox he went to jail for 1 assult charge and meth possession. He's out now, I've talked to him. He's not any better than he was back in 2006 comparing how he talked then vs now. He might honestly be worse.
Ya Boi Skittlez wait wuuuuut. Would love to see some screenshot of this delusional guy 👀
@@yaboiskittlez7943 Welp..... honestly from running into him in the smash community I'm... not surprised.
Wow, Reikken has the patience of a SAINT to put up with that bs even a little bit.
It is amazing as a new Fire Emblem player to see this and just ... wow all those dishonest debate tactics and over-usage of paper stats.
As someone who plays tank games, they taught me raw numbers don't always mean everything. What is funny is that historically even comparing the American 76mm cannon to the British 17 pdr, sure the 17 pdr penetrates more armor but the 76 also can penetrate any German vehicle at their thickest armor the 17 pdr could, except the Jagdtiger which neither gun was going to penetrate anyway.
Thats a thing with people....why you think people fall for pyramid scheme it always look good
On paper
Reikken has always been a hero. Absolutely instrumental for turning Serenes Forest into a place where people could actually have fun and interesting conversations about character viability and comparison.
This whole video is actually a low key Inui roast
High key
why does inui sound like an anime villain?
Ennui?
Reikken, that name takes me back...
These kinds of debates happened quite often on GFAQs too, iirc. This is gonna be a nostalgic video for me.
simple easy pitfall. overkill doesn't make it better than enough. a kill is a kill in the end.
comparing mag stats for physical units, yeah theres no point in comparing that, since its useless for them.
I spent all of my teenage years on the Fire Emblem boards on Neoseeker, and I have to say this video has brought back so many memories of that time in my life! I didn't know any of the guys on this video (I've never heard of FEF), but on Neoseeker it was also a close-knit community where everyone knows everyone and it could get pretty heated. There was one guy called "Eliwood the Slayer" who used to flame me to no end, but was a decent debater. There was also another guy called 'Insanity Prevails' who was also super ahead of his time like Reikken.
I also engaged in a lot of debates, and it was mostly civil and I wasn't anything like Inui. But in one case recently I read some of my posts in a Rolf vs. Sothe thread and couldn't stop cringing at how bad my arguments and counters were. It's also just hilarious reading stuff I wrote when I was like 13-14, at how badly the posts and grammar are constructed. Cringe level = maximum.
“They called me a madman”
-Reikken, probably
That Reikan guy though...
Ive never seen one man hard carry an entire Arguement on his own against one arrogant son of a b*tch named Inui.
More like against like 90% of the people there jesus christ he have free time but #respect
"That's like trying to prove Sain is more useful than Hector"
I played FE7 and Sain is no joke, even compared to Hector. Sain is insain nuff said.
Lyn mode sain is top tier. Kent is basically the same, only a little worse.
@@jaysefgames1155 just wanted to jump in and say Sain has a 20% STR growths over Kent, and Kent only has a 5% growth in speed over Sain; Sain can bridge that gap easily with one speed wing, but Kent can never bridge that STR gap, unfortunately.
Why does IS screw over the speed cavs ;u;
@@quinnlee-miller9792speed cavs should've gotten better defense growths or something
@@aetherius6221 honestly? Yeah. But the problem there is Lowen loses his niche
@@quinnlee-miller9792 lowen gets even more defense, problem solved. (+2/3 base or something)
So when people say that Amelia has better growths than Seth, do they mean she has higher level gain averages?
Because technically that’s true, but Seth is already at Amelia’s (theoretical by level of tolerance) best by the time you start the prologue.
Yes, but Seth doesn't wear a skirt.
Yeah, which is why you shouldn't just take growths into account when evaluating a unit.
Edward Him Yeah, it would make Karel look like the best unit in FE6. But there are only so many levels someone will gain until you say “no more”
@@edwardhim2276
Seth actually has better growths than Amelia in everything other than Luck.
"So when people say that Amelia has better growths than Seth"
When they say that, they are wrong.
Amelia has some of the lowest growths in the game, at a total of 270.
Seth has some of the highest, at a total of 325.
I can see mekkah pointing out his 5 base strength in FE9 lol
Considering how FE 9 is, that isn't the worst
@@blackbird7781
Considering that in Ft. Mangs Emblem, Mekkkah's Luck Growth is just so bad.
Ike's bases are solid by fe9 standards. Not saying he's better than Kieran btw.
@@insomniacsnorlax
His promotion time is very long.
As long as Hector's and Eliwood's promotion times.
But Kieran can promote early, has canto, has Gamble.
Overall great.
@@xxx_jim_the_reaper_xxx I have never felt very held back by his promotion time. He promotes just a little after I usually promote my other units.
Maybe these people thought that by digging so many pitfalls they would reach China and the Chinese would help them.
....wtf....i need some context lol
Is this a Plants vs Zombies reference?
ah yes, the "can you beat the game without this unit argument". I cannot wait to tell everyone that laura (FE10) is superior to the royal laguz because you need her to progress early in the game.
Netesky or that Roy is one of the best units in fire emblem history because you need him to seize
Obviously, Zephiel is one of the top 8 units in Blazing Sword.
Well at least Pent will still be top tier
Half way through the video when they argued that ike was better in every way, I think they forgot about 1-2 range and movement bonuses for mounted units.
Why no just release video?
I will! At my usual upload time. The only difference is now you get to know in advance that it's coming and you get to have a live chat next to it.
@@Mekkkah ok dad
This is the umpteenth time I've watched this video and personally, if I had the chance to, I have the perfect response to Inui here throwing his original argument back at him.
"Mounted unit + 1-2 range weapon type + Path of Radiance Canto + Weapon Triangle edge over lance country = pwnage incarnate. There. Fixed your crummy argument."
This takes me back to my early days in the FE fandom. FES, FEF, FESS, SF, man. Now all except SF are essentially defunct. Thanks for the flashback. Remember when Matthew was always High tier in FE7 lists? Ha
"Ike is better because he is a forced deployment and he can seize and he gets a broken Sword at the end of the game"
Roy does this as well but I doubt anyone would argue he's better than anyone else in his game.
That's because Roy has inferior growths. Ike has good growths in everything, except MAG.
@@DiogoJ1 tbh Roy's growths aren't even that bad compared to other units in his game, his main problem is promoting less than 10 chapters from the end of the game.
Also I was using the main logic everyone else was using to prove a point, like CATS did. All everyone kept saying was that Ike was necessary to complete the game therefore he is a top tier unit who pwns Kieran (god 2006 was a time), so logic dictates that Roy would be in the exact same boat.
@@ScootsLoungeThey aren't bad. HP 80% STR 40% SKL 50% SPD 40% LUK 60% DEF 25% RES 30%.
But compare them to Ike's and it's easy to understand why Ike is better:
HP 75% STR 50% MAG 20% SKL 50% SPD 55% LUK 35% DEF 40% RES 40%. Basically, Ike can tank both physical and magical attacks better than Roy, is stronger and has significantly more SPD as well.
@@DiogoJ1 I never said Roy was better, I just said they weren't bad for his game.
@@ScootsLounge Sure.
>Premiere
I see. Interesting Maneuver.
My head hurts. Anyways, Reikken wins.
Really though, debating lords in "who's better" always ends up with one MAJOR factor being completely overlooked: by the design of the story, the lord ISN'T supposed to be the best unit... until the very end. (The exception is Sigurd, and that's because his story isn't the one for triumph. So naturally he dominates until his demise, which then sets up the actual story to perseverance in Gen 2.)
Any Lord that is designed to triumph via storyline is SUPPOSED to vulnerable for much of the game. That's the entire point of storytelling! Have some initial adversity for the protagonist, build some rising action, see one huge knockdown to the mat for the hero after confronting the main villain, and then see him/her ascend (while getting some OP promotion+item). Literally, storytelling commands that Ike isn't "the man" until the end of the game. So of course Kieran is the better option for a majority of the game.
This Inui fool and all his buddies are soooooo ignorant to the basics and soooooo biased towards their fanhood that it's embarrassing by proxy... even 13 years later. They're not debaters; they're marks.
Tbh they are debater but its like martial arts one is brute force another chanelling the kinetic energy
Aka raw power or efficiency
Inui is a monkey the rekkai....ummm the mvp is the calculator but man is it dumb to watch
I heard of blind faith but this is another lv
Well said
Seliph still dominates most of gen 2
>premieres
You disappoint me, Mekkah
Of course. Interesting maneuver.
Inui logic strikes again
These sound like the arguments I used as an elementary school child.
That is to say 100% fucking iron clad pwnage. Seize is an win button!!!1
"This is like trying to prove that Sain is more useful than Hector."
Now that you mention it...
First I thought this would be you debating someone who actually thought that, and then I was disappointed for the first minute when I saw it wasnt.
Then you got into the actual video and it was so much better than I ever could've imagined.
No i don't think the fanbase is divided I think everybody knows deep down that amelia is the best
Inui was always such a goofball. I vaguely remember him announcing his intentions to join the pro Smash circuit, and haven't heard from him since.
www.tapatalk.com/groups/fireemblemspritez/reikken-vs-sentenal-t4455.html
The Echidna vs Miledy debate was an absolute classic... or at least that's what I remember. I don't have time to read stuff like this anymore, let alone write it, but my memories only grow fonder over time.
ohi
Ah yes, another forum absorbed by the tapatalk conglomerate. Rip :-(
is that as bad as the parasite wikia? i was kind of annoyed they weren't on their OG FEF website anymore.
Mekkkah noooo. Those debates were painful to read even back then!
Oh well. Yup I remember those days well.I think I've seen Inui before, and oh my goodness my head...
Some of those names bring back memories: Eaichu, Reikken. It was a very different time in the fandom. Admittedly if you tear into some of my old content it's forgivable. I used to be a big defender of the 20/20 stat deal when you really gotta factor in a lot more into a character than just growth rates.
I think it's a fair argument to make that FE9 Ike is probably one of, if not the, most mediocre lords in the series. He's hardly ever a liability like Roy, but until he promotes he is greatly held back unlike Ephraim, Hector or even his FE10 self, and even then Maniac mode challenges him to do well until he gets Ragnell.... which makes him pretty amazing, but for only 2 chapters. They are two important chapters, but two chapters nontheless.
I will argue one thing though, Mekkah. I will say that FE9 goes out of its way to keep Ike usable. What I mean by this is that the game throws Ike a bone each time a new challenge arises so he can keep up somewhat. First example, Chapters 1-3. In these chapters, most enemies wield axes and Ike is your only sword wielder, so he gets to have WTA and it makes him somewhat dodgy to perform better.
Chapter 4 and on introduces armor and cav foes, and Ike just so happens to get the Regal Sword right then. Now, is the Regal Sword amazing? Not too much, no. But it does have some nice built in crit, and Ike can easily for example take on the Poleaxe cav in Ch 6 better than anyone else, a unit that poses a great threat to even Titania if RNG hates you.
Then we get to Chapters 12 and 15, maps where EXP floods to you if you position characters right and they do enough damage. And what does Ike happen to get in Chapter 11? A laguzslayer, and out of himself, Zihark and Mia, he is probably your best candidate for it (unless for some reason you already promoted Marcia and leveled her sword rank, but if she's already a Falconknight then I doubt she needs effective weapons on those guys.
Finally, Ike promotes pretty much right when the enemies do, too, and this does help him. Ike has some of the games better promo gains stat-wise, and due to his growths he can begin to snowball pretty well. Again, not OP at all, but pretty reliable once he's a lord, and of course he is one of the best units when he gets the Ragnell. I would consider myself an Ike fanboy, but man I can't wait to hear the horrible arguments from 2006 about him. This will be fun.
EDIT: I realized that perhaps "mediocre" was too harsh, as the word "average" would be a better fit for how to describe FE9 Ike. The rest of my statement remains my opinion, but I don't think Ike deserves to be considered negatively; rather, he just lacks the positives that make the good units in FE9 (fliers, cavs, 1-2 range units) stand out.
I... Never had these issues with ike. I paired him up with lethe and the two just dodged everything. He isn't broken like ephraim or hector. I think if anything he is just right
Out of curiosity though, is this from experience on English Normal and Hard or Japanese-exclusive Maniac mode?
The reason Ike does well on the English versions is because enemies in FE9 are not very stat inflated as well as most of them only having 1 range weapons, meaning Ike can enemy phase well.
In Maniac, most axe and lance units by mid-game have 2 range options and Ike gets far less done on enemy phase than he should. Fliers and cavs are also incredibly OP in FE9 due to canto, and most of these units have 1-2 range from the beginning to help them charge forward and clear maps quickly.
Ike's Earth affinity is a great boon, don't get me wrong, and his support pool is excellent as well, but on Maniac it isn't enough to make him overpowered like Titania, Marcia, Jill, Kieran etc.
Only when he gets the Ragnell can Ike be considered truly OP, but sadly he doesn't have it long enough to make as much as an impact as it should.
No worries though, in FE10 Ike is literally a demigod and one of the best units for the entire time you have him.
@@EZog58 american hard. And i can tell right off thr bat, that I will be unable to change your mind. At least you aren't rude like most are when in your position. With that said, who were your favorite 3 units in path of radiance? Mine were Ike Lethe and Reyson. Reyson is in my opinion the best dancer unit in the franchise in regards to utility
First of all, I appreciate your civility on this and I mean absolutely no disrespect to your opinion either.
I've done 20+ playthroughs on FE9 English Normal/Hard, and a few of those were even Ike solo runs. A few years ago I would have said Ike was the best lord due to his growths and how well he caps his stats by lvl 20 Lord. Ike is still to this day my favorite FE character and I always enjoy using him regardless. Mekkah opened my eyes a little more to efficiency when it comes to FE runs, and I will admit that after I started taking his thought process into account I started being able to accomplish ranked runs in GBA and SNES FE's much more efficiently, especially because turn count was a problem for me back in the day.
I definitely agree with you on Reyson, he's pretty amazing in FE9 and makes certain chapters far more bearable in Maniac. Maniac mode loves to give most mages siege tomes, so being able to run them down faster is so helpful. I think it's best to save all laguz stones for Reyson, because he gets more out of them than any other unit!
Lethe is also really good, she and Janaff are the best combat laguz in FE9 imo because of their immediate shift. If you clear maps fast enough, they never even revert so that makes them very strong. I find them to be efficient "delete buttons", or units that are meant for targeting and taking out big threats on the player phase.
As for my favorite three units, I would have to say Jill, Mist and Titania. Titania is consistent all the way through the game with great bases and growths, Mist is the best healer due to canto and actually player phases well with the Sonic Sword once she promotes, and Jill is a fantastic bEXP candidate as once she levels enough she can charge into maps completely unafraid of anything once she has a full guard equipped. FE9 has a lot of terrain fliers can move over to progress through maps more easily, and Jill uses this greatly to her advantage.
As honorable mentions I do have a soft spot for Ike and Tormod. As I said, Ike isn't terrible, he just isn't amazing. But once he gets Ragnell, he can solo maps with ease, which is so satisfying. Tormod gets looked down upon a lot, but he has decent bases, good weapon ranks, good growths, an ok join time, and an amazing personal skill. Being able to keep up with cavs makes him a bona-fida Mageknight, and he's even somewhat bulky for a mage too. I think he is also a great bEXP candidate, he never lets me down even in Manaic.
I've played the game a lot, and I've had some really good and some really bad Ikes pre-promotion. Like if he gets defense or strength blessed he's going to perform a lot better. So I can see why someone who's played the game once or twice might have taken a huge shine to Ike. They haven't seen the Ikes that have 8 strength at level 15. He can always find a job to do on each map, however, and I think that makes him a pretty high quality lord. He shines not because he's got the flashiest stats but because the game gives him so much he can do. And then in the lategame that culminates into his promotion which enables him to start kicking some ass regardless of bad luck.
Oh man this is such a throwback. I didn't frequent FE Fusion in those days, but 06-07 I participated in a few debates. Thanks for highlighting how far the community has come. These are the fan discussions I remember from when I was a kid.
A personal favorite was a debate about support pairings, and I won the match arguing Raven/Lucius was better than Erk/Pent. One of my main points was "bro you can't even get A rank with Erk/Pent". Lots of good stuff, will need to find the post.
Man, reading Inui smash record completely changes this from cringe antagonist to tormented villain driven to extremes.
I love the arguments of Overkill being greater than being enough. I cant remember the last time dealing 80+ damage mattered as opposed to damage that was just enough to kill, when both are a ORKO.
They also say that it's overkill even though the "overkill combat" is like a +2 advantage in speed.
This made me want to use Kieran next time I play through FE9, I benched him on my firt time playing, but now I'm regretting my choice, even if Astrid and Titana were my 2 best mounted units
Edit: also I love how when people say aether > sol, they're clearly not taking the fact that aether can miss into account lol
My Kieran is great in my playthrough rn but he misses a lot of strength level ups so Ike is a bit better damage wise. Still an op unit
@@mitchellepstein9956 he's so good, I replayed PoR recently and him, Oscar, and Titania were 3 of my MVPs, cannot stress how good the mounted units in PoR are (except for Makalov, fuck that guy)
The sain vs hector comment was pretty funny. Another lord that is out classed by a cav
He's not though. Who was been tanking most physical enemies in the game? Hector, that's who. Sain can't compete with that. And don't bother bringing movement, I would trade movement for more stats everyday of the week, as long as their movement isn't 4 or less, I see little reason to have more movement other than to save villages, recruit units, secure chests and little else.
@@DiogoJ1 Sorry, Sain can't hear you from the other side of the map.
Besides with his high atk and usually enough speed and def, Sain kills enemies and has no trouble surviving.
Plus there's the whole promotion issue, Sain easily reaches promotion levels at least 5 chapters ahead of Hector. More on Hector mode
Sure, Hector can accually tank better, but Sain brings so much more else to the table.
ok, personally, i think oswin and marcus can tank pretty well too but thats just me. so before i start to analyise their stats im going to set the bases of what im about to discuss. i will be assuming lyn mode and hector mode are played.
sains bases are lv1 hp19 str8 skl4 spd6 luk4 def6 res0; growths hp80 str60 skl35 spd40 luk35 def20 res20. hector bases are lv1 hp19 str7 skl4 spd5 luk3 def8 res0; growths hp90 str60 skl45 spd35 luk30 def50 res25.
sain joins in ch1, lyn mode ends at ch10, rejoins in ch16 while hector joins in ch11. sain has 10 chapters before ch16 and hector has 5 chapters before ch16. lets say that sain gains 4/3 lvs per chapter(total 13) while hector gains 2 lvs per chapter(total 10). sains stats are hp29.4 str15.8 skl8.55 spd11.2 luk8.55 def8.6 res 2.6 while hectors stats are hp28 str13 skl8.5 spd8.5 luk6 def13 res2.5. so sain has 1 more hp, 2 more str, same skill, 3 more speed, 2 more luck, 5 less defence, same resistance. sain basically trades 2 more damage and 3 speed for 5 defence. however, there are lyn mode exclusive stat boosters that sain has access to that hector does not. there is an angelic robe in ch 6 and an energy ring so sain acctualy can have 8 more hp than hector at 36.4 and 4 more attack at 17.8. there is also a knight crest avalible in lyn mode as well as in the next chapter(ch17). so sains stats can potentialy be hp38.4 str18.8 skl9.5 spd12.2 luk8.55 def10.6 res3.6. at the same point of the game sain is looking at having 10 more hp, 5 more str, 1 more skl, 4 more speed, and 1 more res while hector has 3 more def. so hector is losesing to sain in almost every stat metric in the game. sain has better bulk than hector if he gets hit 3 or less times. he has better damage output and better avoid. sain is also a full speed teir above hector as well as having full control of the weapon triangle. sain also has several class advantages he is mounted so he can canto after rescueing, droping, visiting, and tradeing.
onto movement. im not sure what you mean because saving villages, recruiting units, securing chests seem important to me. i like recruiting priscilla and getting the brave axe. a lot of rewards/objectives are difficult to reach without the extra move like saving the 3 caelin soldiers or saving zephiel. more move also allows you to get to specific choke points faster, gain better position and be more flexible with your stratagies
@@sirofcoffee701 Sorry, Sain can't hear us from death's door. And Hector laughs at him for being on the other side of the map, when he should be with the group in the first place, helping clear out enemies.
So does Hector, but better, since he has way less trouble surviving thanks to his great DEF. He's not as fast as Sain doesn't particularly impress in that department either, usually only having 3 SPD points more than Hector at lv 20 before promotion.
Promotion isn't an issue when one has 20 STR and 17 DEF, can tank pretty much virtually any physical until his promotion.
The only thing Sain brings is movement, and I don't need movement for the most part.
@@DiogoJ1 Do not underestimate the power of movement.
Sure, you might be able to get through chapters by turtling. Using high def units and take like 30 turns.
But using a unit like Sain can help with a more proactive strategy.
Clearing the way for thiefs, rushing out and clearing a group of reenforcements to prevent getting overwhelmed. Killing that one mage in the backline that could be trouble.
Not to start with chapters that have secondary objectives.
Plus the promotion does matter, because Sain will be able to get more stats from the promotion bonus. With that and a triangle advantage against every melee unit he becomes quite hard to kill even if you promote him at level 15.
Not to say Hector is bad, with the other two axe fighters sucking so much and him having the wolf beil + defence, Hector probably the best answer to a lot of lance units.
Though if you want a cavalier that's harder to kill, there are always Lowen and Marcus
God, the immaturity in those posts we're just physically painful
How is comparing Ike to a mounted unit in PoR fair at all? XD Mounted units are nuts in the tellius series, PoR especially
Edit: Ike v. Astrid might not even be fair XD
Thats like saying you cant compare a male manager and female manager....oooo thats sexist
Tbh usability are the issue here but theres no reason why you cant compare them but i guess thats a joke in this context
The thing is that the arguements for Ike also apply for Roy, who’s clearly garbage
I'd consider myself a more casual player of fe but in my time between when I first started some 1-2 years ago I want to say, I've at least learned that being "enough" is all it takes to qualify a unit as really good. You dont need the highest Str or Spd stat, you just need enough to do damage reliably, which Reikken pointed out many times. So if both do enough and are pretty equal stat wise, it would logically come down to weapon and move type, which Keiran beats Ike in. Axes have higher might and low forge cost along with reliable 1-2 range for pretty much all the game. As for move, all I need to say is Cav with fe9 canto.
I want mekkah to do a video on every sword user in fire emblem ever
My Favorite and the STRONGEST Swordmaster is Radd Quetz!!!
Fite me!
Lucia is obviously the best.
@@patrickhoberg9270
Nah!
RADD QUETZ!!!
@@patrickhoberg9270
Lucia as a Trueblade won't matter if she isn't participating most of the game.
She rarely dodges just like Sigrun.
I think I’d probably be interested in a video about Eirika, Marisa, or Mia.
If there's ever a solely mekkkah PME we gotta make the argument war arc with these two. Also i had no idea you would do voices, but i'm so happy you did lol.
Mekkah has taken the helm of Ben Shapiro. I find that amusing
All he needs to do now is talk fast and gishgallop constantly.
My wife is a doctor.
well there is one major difference
the only thing comming out of Ben Shapiro mout is BS unlike Mekkah
now this is epic
Could you do your own playthrough of fe9 mekkah? That would be super cool
If I'm dead honest. The fact that Kieran is a cavalier makes him way better to me. Like ikes cool and all. But if I really need a unit in another spot a cav is gonna be way more useful for repositioning. But hey maybe I'm too used to Shadow dragon and it's million cavalier reclassing.
Oh I thought this video was going to be people bashing his writing as a character. Nevermind, but thanks for the vid anyhow.
I always considered Ike an OP character who’s limited to swords. Which, yes, makes him no where near top tier. Being limited to adjacent enemies sucks but you can still throw him in a crowd of enemies and he won’t die.
Yeah, the swordlock is like a broken leg on what could've been among the best units in the game. I think it's genuinely impressive that in spite of it, he's *still* one of the better foot units in the game by sheer force of stats alone.
Both sides arguments are invalid because they have anime profile pics
RAcIsm Is No MOrE
Nice video, I know/have met in person, Inui from the smash brawl scene. Can confirm his personality is exactly as witnessed in the video. Debate tournaments based on how the arguments are formed rather than actual content seems SUPER biased. That Nick guy made no points and only was there to defend Inui lol.
So about 6 months ago me and a friend of mine played PoR over the course of 2 and a half weeks with the person playing alternating between chapters and resets. When we first got Kieran, I could tell he was both 1. pretty damn good, and 2. most likely better than Ike on average. Now our Ike was hella RNG blessed, having 4 near perfect level ups early on, in each of them getting HP, Strength, Speed, Skill, and Defense. I looked at Kierans base stats, level, and the fact that he used axes and said "You know this guy's probably better than Ike on average." My friend look at me and said "Wait seriously?" We looked up the average stats for level 12 PoR Ike (the level out Ike was at that point, it was a pretty casual playthrough) and we both saw that yeah, Kieran is better than an average Ike at this point. We also determined more advantages such as Axe usage in a lance heavy game, immediate 1-2 range access, a mount, more damage due to using axes, weapon triangle adavntage most of the time, and being able to promote immediately upon join time. Our Ike was still capable of holding his own but Kieran still did better than him for most of the game until Ike's promotion and the gaining of Ragnell, even if they were still pretty close in terms of effectiveness for us. Our Ike did eventually surpass Kieran upon promotion, but Kieran still did about equally well all the way till the end. I have plenty of fond memories of using Kieran, so this was amazing and hilarious to watch. We really didn't know all that much back in 2006 did we?
I remeber Kieran dying at the very end of one chapter due to an enemy critical and we reset despite being one move away from seizing. Good times.
Expio 20XX Nice
When the boys argue that flat earth makes totally more sense and a few centuries later look back on their facts.
honestly, this if effectively a pitfalls video on the fact that people rate overkill combat above map utility, and that's wrong for the most part.
if 2 units can both kill an enemy, but one does it with 30 damage over the enemy's max hp and the other just about manages but is on a horse, that makes the latter unit more useful. a couple of years ago, i probably would have gone for the overkill combat too, but i've learned a lot since getting more into FE and following content creators, and i'm glad that you teach people these things mekkkah, i know it's helped me to enjoy the series a whole lot more :)
"Deedeedee" is a dated reference to the legendary Carlos Mencia
How will Ike fanboys ever recover from this
Quite easily. Us true fans know he isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect
Just like he said. Easily at that, since Mekkah failed to convince me in the first place.
Me when a meme comment got highlighted and replies 😏
I had to stop for a second after one of the Ike fanboys said that Hector > Sain. I am a FE noob and I played on Eliwood Normal Mode and I understood that Sain is better. Help
"What is up my aesthetic bois, it's -fresh- *Mekkah,* back with another video"
I can't say I wouldn't have joined in on the idiots side in this one back in the day...
But seriously, "Can't die" and "Must Seize" as selling points? A unit who gets you game over if he dies, but is required to complete a mission objective has a name in video games. It's called an 'escort'. By this logic, the defenseless civilian your badass soldier has to protect in countless games in the oft-dreaded Escort Mission has a couple of arguments as to why they're better than the main character.
I love this!
I hope you can make these debates into another series.
Ugghh....that is very toxic debate, Dude. It almost made me sick. I dont really want to even read this. Almost the same topics has has been thrown out.
this is frustrating to watch lmao, my guy is screaming in to the void
How did not a single person mention that ike gets RAGNELL....AT FUCKING CHAPTER 26! Literally WHEN THE GAME IS ABOUT TO END!
Ike is among my top 5 favorite characters, but i'm also one of them casuals that only plays on hard mode and play the units I like over optimal units and I do just fine. good video always enjoy your content.
19:31 claims Reikken is being arrogant litterally ten seconds later Inui says the most arrogant thing imaginable
The undervaluing of 1-2 range and hilariously broken super canto is both amazing and painful. As are the absolutely agonizing logical fallacies.
The way near everyone went against Reikkan... it was all backwards. Seems like nearly everyone else was high on the bandwagon and turned a blind eye on Inui.
Sound like how jesus got burn on the stake
Oh shit human nvr learn....come on thats reality and history can prove you plenty of such barbaric situation
It's funny they bring up story stuff like "Ike leads the army" as if that matters for gameplay at all.
I bet he thinks Roy, Eirika or FE11 Marth are all good
Kieran can't do shit if Ike's group doesn't save him from jail
I know I’m late but whatever. Can we take Oscar into account here? Considering the support convos Ike and Oscar can give each other 30 avoid at A support and that would be around the time you get Kieran. Meanwhile Kieran has to wait 8 chapters to get a worse A support bonus since Kieran is wind. At that point, Ike has already promoted meaning you’re going to be throwing him into combat again so he can prepare for end game.
Also, Kieran has trouble doubling due to his lower speed and attacks being heavier, although I don’t know for sure if that countered by his strength. And sure, you could get him a forged weapon but that says more about the weapon rather than Kieran.
Also, while both Ike and Kieran have bad res stats, Ike has a decent chance of dodging with his boosted avoid against enemies with long range magic in hard to reach places, which this game throws a lot at you although this can be minimized with pure water.
Edit: since it came up in the video after I made the comment thought I should add a few things.
He says his supports aren’t better but Ike has arguably the support element in the game as earth, what Oscar has. Kieran has wind which is still good but it’s not 30 avoid at A support good. Plus Ike and Oscar are available from near the beginning of the game so you’ll be getting that support right around the time you get Kieran. Meanwhile Keiran has to wait 8 chapters to get his A support with Oscar. This’ll happen after Ike has already promoted. Their averages at lvl 1 promote are pretty even outside of speed and res which go to Ike. And Ike isn’t weighed down by axes.
So he says Kieran doubles but I have never seen him double outside of slow units like armored knights. I guess Kieran would have the slight edge due to weapon triangle advantage so I’ll give him that. Unless I’m mistaken, to double consistently, you need to give Kieran a forged weapon. It’s not that big a problem since money isn’t really an issue but like I said earlier, it says more about the weapon than about Kieran because you could just as easily forge Ike a more damaging sword.
And yes, you can ward spell or pure water Kieran to temporarily minimize what usually would be lethal or crippling damage from long range casters, but you’re either going to have to be creative with your healer or your going to have to limit what Kieran can do on his turn which you will want to take advantage of considering he is a mounted class.
Also, while Kieran can promote earlier than Ike I almost always find that they both promote around the same time anyways. My last play through of PoR, Kieran was lvl 2 paladin by the time Ike promoted. So it’s not Kieran is going to have a huge level advantage at that point in the game.
The only thing I think Kieran has over Ike is having 1-2 range options all game and the extra movement/ canto of mounted class. They are significant but I don’t think it’s as significant as the A support Ike will have with Oscar already by the time you get Kieran.
And because I’m dumb and forgot, if you A support Ike and Oscar you can only B support Keiran and Oscar due to the support limit making an already worse support that much more so. The only other two are with Rhys and Marcia. Rhys support is bad since you don’t want him in the front line anyway. Marcia is good but she can A support Tanith with the Earth element and give them both Oscar levels of avoidance so you might not want to A support him with Marcia anyway.
Kieran clearly lacks in support due to the fact that all his supports have superior options, one of which include Ike’s support with Oscar which arguably could be considered the best in the game.
I think Kieran definitely has an argument but I think Ike is better. It just takes better arguments than growth% and Ragnell which very few people have making it super easy to argue against.
>This is like trying to prove that Sain is more useful than Hector.
But isn't Sain, like... actually more useful than Hector?
I think they were onto something with that Lucia comment, though.
Considering that Hector is the best unit in Blazing Sword... It's a similiar comparison. Although I believe Kieran has a better chance of being on Ike's level than Sain does to Hector. Hector just has godly DEF and STR, which Sain can only compete in the STR department. Kieran on the other hand, has both STR and DEF going for him, but his lack of RES, lack of a prf weapon makes him at least inferior to Ike.
Diogo Jorge I know I’m 2 months late, but there’s literally no way Hector is the best Blazing Sword unit.
@@infactanoose His godlike DEF says otherwise. But you think you.
Diogo Jorge DEF isn’t everything, and it isn’t “god-like.” people like Oswin outperform him, so is Oswin the best unit in FE7?
@@infactanoose Oswin suffers from being slower, not being able to use axes, the better weapon type, and have lower promotion gains. Even his movement is lower. Also, Hector outperforms him in STR by a landslide. Oswin is good, but he's no top 10 unit.
Damn, this brings me back. I used to be super active on Fire Emblem Planet: there were so many cool FE forums back then. Now everyone lives in Serenes Forest and reddit. Wild how things change.
Ike is in smash though what you gonna do about that? best unit, he made it to smash
SmH ScRuBs pirahna plant didnt even need to be popular and it made it
Roy is also in smash, and he sucks in both his own game and in smash because being a swordfighter that excells at close range makes him among the worst of the "disjointed long hitbox" melee characters
This, this I needed today. I laughed so hard at this thank you Mekkah.
You gotta Admit though, His design is the coolest, And I mean Cool not the best, But A Mercenary
that's Primary Colors, Plus the voice, pretty cool
Nah i rather take arthur lute or sain
But i guess he is handsome i can at least see that
Sorry for being a noob but why it does matter if a character is better then other one if the game don't have a competitive scene neither multiplayer battles.
Radio Ancap-socialista Noruegês makes the game easier/ harder depending on your choices
Bcuz some people have too much time....why the fuck am i here
If Ben Shapiro were an Otaku.
So, around the time of these original posts I found something like this (and I think this post too xD) and I was like.
"Man... this community is so childish. I feel bad for Reikken/insert guy with common sense here. If guys like Inui/insert superior masterbater (I mean idiot debater) thinks this is an arguement then I dont really want to be a part of these guys."
Coming back over a decade later to see the community, I'm glad I found ya first Mekkah! Watching your stuff has been a great and made me more interested in a series I already loved!