Clemson's viewership numbers are mainly against ACC competition with an SEC team or two and Notre Dame non conference thrown in every year so that would probably increase more by playing those 6 B1G schools above them.
I agree. They’d get a boost from the B1G Network and by playing B1G schools. What’ll be interesting is that at the end of the series, we’ll stack up all the ACC targets to see who’s the strongest of the bunch, a more apples to apples viewership look. Thanks for watching!
Outstanding video as always, still think you should call it WildUte-niversity. Respectfully requesting you finish up with Miami, UNC, UVA, GT, and Kansas. At the very end maybe a roundup video with which teams WildUte would select to get to 20 and 24.
@@wildute6958 Not as strong as FSU or Notre Dame! UNC and UVA had already been vetted years ago before Rutgers and Maryland were invited. But VA Tech is actually a more valuable brand than UVA except they don't have AAU status yet or the pedigree of UVA. Same goes for UNC versus NC State. And then there is Georgia Tech?! Miami???? Maybe. Duke and/or Syracuse??? How B1G does the B1G want to go? Will the ACC be divided up and there end up being 3 LEAGUES?! Conferences will become part of history WHEN the ACC is divvied up.
Im a Clemson Alum, BS Chemical Engineering, and I can say: 1. in the larger towns, Greenville, Charleston cost of living is probably higher than in most of Ohio or Michigan. 2. Media market is Greenville- Spartanburg SC-Asheville NC (yes) 3. The department i studied in was HEAVILY supported by research and industry. $. Med School would be nice but we already have TWO in SC- USC Medical and MUSC.
The cost of living in MD, NJ, CA and WA are all top ten in the country. IL, OR, PA in the top 20 MN top 30. WI, MI top 40 IN, OH, Iowa, NE bottom 10. SC is 29. About average or slightly less for the B1G
I used to live in Hendersonville NC ( between Asheville and South Carolina). Most popular teams in this order: 3: NC State. 2: UNC. 1: Clemson. It is not close
Very well done here. Only thing I would like to add is the market is what the market is but in terms of college football viewership, gsa market is either 1 or 2 battling with Birmingham in total college football viewership. We love it.
Very well done and presented. Kinda of takes the emotional aspect out, which is good. Takes the old “Dragnet” tv series approach, “just give me the facts”! Look forward to future presentations.
You are shocked Clemson doesn't have a Heistman winner? I'm not and most Clemson fans aren't. That is a trophy exclusively reserved for the best players in the SEC, Big10, or Notre Dame. USC also.
To add to my earlier comment about markets, census 2023 says that South Carolina is now the fastest growing state so I'm sure market will reflect that.
@@wildute6958Like it ain't in the sec, and B10? Lol. We have to wait until the 4 corner schools, and maybe after the 4 ACC schools join the B12. Right now it's impossible to calculate the B12's data, and coolness,, except in basketball, even before the 4 corners, and 4 ACC schools join. I guess it's football, and not basketball data.
Is ILLINOIS the CAL of the B1G (roughly)? The State of IL was one of the most populated since 1900 and includes Chicago (the #3 city for a long time). Why hasn't the flagship been more successful in athletics? To the point I often see ILL included in a list of schools the B1G should consider kicking.
Great video. 1. Check the methodology on that 247 recruit survey. No where near following statistical standards. Featured recruits in the DMZ. I think recruiting team rankings is afar more evidence based metric for recruit attraction to programs. 2. Clemson and UDub are very close in all time wins (798 v 774). Washington has lost a lot of FB games in the 21st century (2001 to present). Clemson (thanks to Dabo) has done really well during that period. Take Dabo away from Clemson or Tyrone Willingham away from Washington and UDub is the better school. (Coulda, shoulda, woulda). 3. Clemson is a good looking candidate.
100% that Clemson is a good looking candidate. For us analytical dudes, there an infinite amount of variables to choose for a model. To me, while not perfect, this is the best out there. Thanks for watching!
Clemson is in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville,NC market but is close to larger markets, with Atlanta less than 2 hours south and Charlotte 2 hours north. Clemson is a top 25 public university, so all this silly talk in the comments about academics is unfounded. Clemson is in the process of creating a Vet school and has embarked on a program to double research (possibly designed to achieve AAU membership?). You have to remember Clemson doesn't have the huge alumni base of a lot of the Big Ten schools. It was a small military college until the mid 1950s with 2,500 students. Even in the 19080s Clemson only had around 12,000 students. Currently Clemson is about 24,000 students, so still small relative to most public Big Ten universities. Clemson has long punched well above its weight.
Very informative, thanks! My comment would be that 6/7 data points are tied to brand, so your overall ranking is potentially too heavy on brand, and light on academics for a conference like the Big 10. Brand could be defined by multiple sub-points, then, mixed with academics in any % blend. This blend is conference dependent. In addition, there is no room in this analysis for Strategic Value, which can become an overriding factor (eg, Rutgers and Maryland for cable network value...or if they wanted to lean into a market, like Atlanta, to compete with the SEC, or grab a school to strengthen basketball). Strategic Value could be hard to quantify, but can be discussed at the end.
I understand the emotional value of adding a basketball school but not the financial value. Football pays the bills. The attraction of a school would necessarily be tied to the strength of their football program and football viewership is where the money comes from. Another item that factors in is the revenue generation record. Some schools just don’t bring in enough revenue to be additive to the conference. If a school only generates $30m for the conference and gets $70m back, that $40m deficit doesn’t come out of the pocket of the conference but the member schools. Every conference has founding member schools that are financial drags that the conference is stuck with but going out and adding another one makes no sense.
@505premoto The point is that conferences may place strategic value on a school that is not directly or cleanly captured in this, or any, generic data model.
@@mrmonkeysays Yes, strategic value aspect could always be the Black Swan that no one knows except a few decision makers. That is possible. To me, it’s still worth embarking on analyzing the available data points to see where a school measures despite not having all the private (Black Swan) information. It helps me and others understand the field more.
@wildute6958 Agreed. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. There is enough known data to create interesting and useful models. I see strategic value as a peripheral discussion because it is difficult to quantify, especially generically. Strategic value, itself, may not be easily defined in a silo. I'm thinking of the value of school A, by itself, vs school A, with school B, or as a means to obtain school B, or a means to create a pod. It's all so interesting to consider.
Here is what hurts Clemson: The numbers, Think “Musical Chairs” there are only so many chairs to go around in the Big 10. The best way to compare Clemson is to the possible competition for one of those chairs. Obviously ND & FSU rank higher. But what about a Utah? ASU? Miami? T A & M who hates Texas so much they have “Goodbye to Texas University” in their fight song. Maybe they want to jump to the Big 10? Then what about when Dabo leaves? You might end up with a Nebraska.type situation? Poor research, no AAU status, and underachieving football. No thank you.
Clemson is a good school in what they do. They are an Automotive and Aerospace Engineering School, They have a good business school, and they have a good Nursing School. They are good in what they do. They are not a big school (20,000 students) They don't offer the range like the bigger Big Ten schools that have a lot more students.
Clemson won't be the first choice for the B1G this round of expansion. However, they are a B1G-type brand, offer strong football, bring new markets (including ATL), and are a geographic bridge to FSU. That's a lot of benefit.
My prediction: Step 1 will be Florida State and Notre Dame going to the Big Ten. That will cause the dominos to fall just like it did with the PAC-10. In the chaos, the Big Ten will go to four 6-team divisions by adding Stanford and Cal to the West, and any two of Clemson, Georgia Tech, or Miami to the East (joining Penn State, Florida State, Maryland, and Rutgers).
I like the research and presentation. However, the Market slide seems wrong. Seattle (home to Washington) is the #13 market in the country. I have no idea why the data you found has glaring errors. Illinois (Urbana-Champagne), Penn State, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are woefully incorrect. I looked up the data so I'm not just speculating.
With Dabo Swinney not using the transfer portal and NIL era of college football effectively, Clemson would fit right in at the B1G. They would be another sacrificial lamb like so many others; Michigan State, Mizzou, Maryland, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Rutgers, etc... Teams that don't have the slightest chance of ever winning a conference championship.
Waste of a Big Ten spot if you ask me. Let Clemson go to the SEC. I am not sure what the Big Ten should do in the East. But I am certain it should not include adding Clemson.
Hugely bad assumption to believe that each of the seven categories has equal weight to the B1G. Do you have any reason to believe that recruiting and perception are nearly equal to academics, market, and viewership? Academic ranking is very importing. Being very low in comparison to other schools is very important. It makes no sense to not consider this vital to the B1G. The SEC might not care, but the B1G does. Clemson is neither great nor elite to the B1G. Clemson ranks a lot lower than most of the league. How does Clemson spend research dollars? If it is in agricultural, the AAU does not include ag and might sadly hurt Clemson, as it does to Nebraska? The Columbia SC market is 79th in the country and Charleston is 99th. They are the only two in the state in the top 100 and are shared with U South Car. Right now the B1G has the number 1, 2, 3, 4, 9. 14. and 17 in the top 20 in the country. When the B1G got its new $7 to $8 billion dollar deal, they very openly were excited about having the reach from NYC to Chicago to LA, the top 3 markets in the country. As far as financials, RU and UMD do not get full B1G shares, since they both borrowed a lot of money to buy into the BTN. By the way, the Rutgers market is 21 million in NYC and another few million in South Jersey, for a total of nearly 25 million. Perhaps Clemson can get a B1G invite, but not based on these factors being close to equal. Clemson is saved in your rankings by perception and ranking, which may not matter to the B1G at all.
Universities do not spend research dollars; individual faculty do. Research dollars are a measure of faculty quality, along with publications and Ph. D.’s graduated.
Where did they get THESE financials since it has been reported that Penn State reached the $200 Million Dollar Club for 2022 - 2023 year? to go from 100+ million for anOSu, UM and Penn State to over 200? Doesn't seem correct at all....Tops are anOSU, Texas, UM, Penn State, Alabama. < These are the ONLY members listed as the $200 million dollar earners. Everyone else is below 200.
Where are you getting your data? The top five were Ohio St., Texas, Alabama, Michigan and Georgia in that order. There are plenty of news reports with the top 5 revenue earners.
@@jansonroberts2616Yes, good questions. Not taking total athletic revenue data here. Instead only looking at 3 of several complements of athletic revenue: ticket sales, licensing, and misc. Check out Sportico’s College Sports Finances Database for Clemson to see the slicing of revenues. It’s fun stuff!
They may get in but the reason Clemson has been so quiet as the ACC fails might be due to them not having a better home. They are a tweener in that the SEC doesn't need them but that is the natural home.
their natural home is probably the Big 12 but they praying that the football is good enough to carry them into a P2 spot. They might end up the Kings of the Big 12 which is "mid major" in the new landscape. Like the Gonzaga of College Football.
@@tomdemay6147 OR...Big 12 can pick up enough that they make it a P3 CFB League...versus just a P2 and Everyone else. I would prefer a 3 League CFB world. The ACC "could" have been one of those P3...but they are as ARROGANT and DUMB as the PAC Losers! There are enough quality candidates to make a P3 and make it competitive and interesting. The ACC without the top 2 teams is NOT going to make it........ THE ONLY way the ACC survives is IF.....Notre Dame joins as a full football member. THAT may be a legitimate option for ND....so they can get an easy path to the CFB Playoff and Home Field advantage in a weakened ACC (without FSU, maybe even no Clemson either?)
@@josephcernansky1794 The ACC had the only feasible path to be a peer P3 but that required a new media deal with ESPN. Any arrogance or stupidity played no role. The BIG12 has no feasible path to be a peer P3.
@@josephcernansky1794 it makes no financial sense for ND to join the ACC. ND already makes more money outside the ACC. ND would be taking a paycut and a MASSIVE one at that if its a ACC without FSU and other top teams. ND would prefer to be Independent but if they have to join a conference it will be BIG 10 especially if Big 10 has the power ACC teams like FSU and Clemson.
Let Clemson go to the SEC. For Clemson to join the Big Ten, I would have to see either an existing relationship with other Big Ten schools, an aid to our footprint e.g. travel partner with current member or candidate, etc. I do not see it. All I see if a money move that does not cement Clemson as a longterm Big Ten member. Every other Big Ten expansion candidate had some prior history or add to logistics - something beyond just market and money. Clemson should go to the SEC. Just forces with South Carolina.
As a lifelong Midwesterner who spent time on the East Coast and B1G alum, Clemson is a hard pass for me unless our top 4 or 5 options are unavailable. First, their entire program and legacy are dependent on one sport and one coach. What do they offer in basketball, women’s volleyball, hockey, wrestling, and other popular B1G sports if football success can’t be sustained after Dabo? They offer very little in terms of attractive content for the Big Ten Network. Bringing on Oregon was the exception and not the norm when it comes to universities with low research investment. At least Oregon is backed by a global athletic research corporation (Nike) and close to Seattle which is a hub for science and engineering. AAU status aside, Clemson is backed by who and close to what? Sure, ATL offers access to food and health sciences, but how does that spill over to Clemson in any way, shape, or form? Lastly, unlike North Carolina, South Carolina is just a poor cultural fit. It has a small TV market and it hasn’t been verified that Georgia residents follow Clemson sports before and after Dabo. And it’s not an ideal destination for B1G fans who travel by the thousands with our friends and family to games compared to a destination like Miami. Unlike Florida, Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, SC is not an ideal place for B1G alums and donors to retire either. By every metric and measure, Clemson belongs in the SEC with the Big 12 as an alternative if the B1G is prioritizing other schools as we should.
"And it’s not an ideal destination for B1G fans who travel by the thousands with our friends and family to games compared to a destination like Miami. Unlike Florida, Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, SC is not an ideal place for B1G alums and donors to retire either."
@@josephcernansky1794 Okay, you didn't respond to anything I wrote but just rambled off subject. First, I love in Chicago which has the second most skyscrapers than any other city in the United States. I have more skyscrapers on my street (State) than in all of the Carolinas. Second, Chicago has the largest concentration of B1G alums. LA is 2nd. NYC is 3rd. DC is 4th. This was validated on a Wall Street Journal study. Again, we don't migrate to or live in South Carolina. Third, you clearly don't know about PSU's realignment history. JoePa wanted to form his own Northeast conference but schools like Syracuse and Boston College weren't interested so it went nowhere. After that he started talks with the B1G. The ACC was always the third option and the ACC had no idea PSU was talking to the B1G until it was announced. Lastly, nothing you said refutes the fact that Clemson would be a poor fit over ND, UNC, FSU, Miami, and UVA.
Women's Softball #5, Men's Soccer # 1 last two years Women's Soccer #2, Men's Baseball #11, Women's Gymnastics # 23, Men's Basketball will make the NCAA Tournament (they are annual bubble team, Men's Golf - Top 10, Women's Lacrosse Top 10 -- heartbreak clearly does not know what he is talking about.
@@lhornet52 Softball, soccer, baseball, lacrosse, and gymnastics are ranked what in terms of revenue for schools and TV ratings for the B1G? PAC-12 schools are great at swimming and beach volleyball, but those are not the key levers for the B1G conference. If Clemson wants to join the B1G then Clemson needs to be good at actual B1G sports or academics. ACC basketball currently sucks. FSU and Miami have a stronger case to make there and they're still unranked. Of course UNC and UVA has the strongest case. And Clemson is currently 11th in the ACC in women's college basketball so that does nothing to build upon the momentum of Iowa and Caitlyn Clark. If Dabo leaves and Clemson likely becomes a middle of the pack football school, what else does the school do well that complements the B1G in sports and academics? The sports you listed aren't any of the revenue and ratings sports for the B1G.
@@heartbreak25 Look at the video. Clemson football has been historically good. You are putting up Women's basketball, swimming and beach volleyball as your big revenue sports over baseball, soccer, and softball ? I rest my case. That's an absolute joke.
At least the State of South Carolina still has standards for their high school graduates.... Oregon is so woke that NO standards are allowed in Oregon!! EVERYONE gets a degree and a trophy!! Besides....the Carolinas in the fall beats anywhere in the Horizontal Universe...ANY TIME of the year!! Better to play in the south in November than the tundra of the Upper Midwest!!
As a Big 10 person (Ohio State), no Clemson doesn't remotely fit into the conference. We, the residents, don't want or need FSU or Clemson. Also as a Great Lakes Midwesterner, I would NEVER wish these two fanbases on the Plains Midwesterners. Who want to hear them complain all of the time when the ACC hasn't been to the playoffs since OSU beat Clemson in 2020.
Clemson has beaten OSU 4 out of 5 times. The only time OSU beat Clemson was the COVID year that they took off the month of December to prepare for playing them while Clemson played a 11 games.
Clemson's viewership numbers are mainly against ACC competition with an SEC team or two and Notre Dame non conference thrown in every year so that would probably increase more by playing those 6 B1G schools above them.
I agree. They’d get a boost from the B1G Network and by playing B1G schools. What’ll be interesting is that at the end of the series, we’ll stack up all the ACC targets to see who’s the strongest of the bunch, a more apples to apples viewership look. Thanks for watching!
@@wildute6958 Clemson is not Big10 caliber. Academically or Sports wise.
@@adangbe Clemson has as many national championships in the CFP era as the entire Big 10 conference. Have a nice day!
Sign us up! Go Tigers! #ALLIN
Moen not dressed up?
And thanks WildUte for all the hard work.
I have to keep you guys guessing.
Outstanding video as always, still think you should call it WildUte-niversity.
Respectfully requesting you finish up with Miami, UNC, UVA, GT, and Kansas. At the very end maybe a roundup video with which teams WildUte would select to get to 20 and 24.
Add in Notre Dame, and I think that will be everyone.
@@sky12sky True, didn’t even think of them because I assume they are a near perfect B1G fit anyways
Clemson made 39.9 million in seat licenses in 2022, which is far above average amongst Big Ten schools
Clemson is a strong B1G candidate!
@@wildute6958 Not as strong as FSU or Notre Dame! UNC and UVA had already been vetted years ago before Rutgers and Maryland were invited. But VA Tech is actually a more valuable brand than UVA except they don't have AAU status yet or the pedigree of UVA. Same goes for UNC versus NC State. And then there is Georgia Tech?! Miami???? Maybe. Duke and/or Syracuse??? How B1G does the B1G want to go?
Will the ACC be divided up and there end up being 3 LEAGUES?! Conferences will become part of history WHEN the ACC is divvied up.
Thanks guys! Good job on this 👍
Great presentation. Thanks!
Im a Clemson Alum, BS Chemical Engineering, and I can say: 1. in the larger towns, Greenville, Charleston cost of living is probably higher than in most of Ohio or Michigan. 2. Media market is Greenville- Spartanburg SC-Asheville NC (yes) 3. The department i studied in was HEAVILY supported by research and industry. $. Med School would be nice but we already have TWO in SC- USC Medical and MUSC.
Clemson is an amazing school and deserves to be in the B1G.
It's a split market but Clemson does have a pretty big following in Charlotte NC. UNC does too though.
The cost of living in MD, NJ, CA and WA are all top ten in the country.
IL, OR, PA in the top 20
MN top 30.
WI, MI top 40
IN, OH, Iowa, NE bottom 10.
SC is 29. About average or slightly less for the B1G
I used to live in Hendersonville NC ( between Asheville and South Carolina). Most popular teams in this order: 3: NC State. 2: UNC. 1: Clemson. It is not close
Would be awesome if you could do this with a few of the B12 teams like TCU, Utah, OSU, and KU or WVU.
Good recommendation for the future. Next up is UNC, then Miami, then GT, and maybe UVA to B1G.
Very well done here. Only thing I would like to add is the market is what the market is but in terms of college football viewership, gsa market is either 1 or 2 battling with Birmingham in total college football viewership. We love it.
Very well done and presented. Kinda of takes the emotional aspect out, which is good. Takes the old “Dragnet” tv series approach, “just give me the facts”! Look forward to future presentations.
You are shocked Clemson doesn't have a Heistman winner? I'm not and most Clemson fans aren't. That is a trophy exclusively reserved for the best players in the SEC, Big10, or Notre Dame. USC also.
Uh, FSU has 3. Charlie Ward (1993), Chris Weinke (1999) and Jameis Winston (2013).
John Heisman coached at Clemson and led the Tigers to their first undefeated season in 1900. Does that count? 🙂
@@jinmd9094 Uhh...no.
Clemson's is heavily in the Atlanta and Charlotte TV markets
An hour away from Atlanta. There's value in the facet for the B1G.
Absolute wonderful job thank you for posting very interesting.
Great job as always!
In about 5 years you can make videos on A&M and UU fit in the B1G
A&M yes...UU..is NONO!
Moen!! Hadn't seen you without the disguise. Didn't recognize you.
Excellent as always
Much appreciated. UNC to the B1G video coming soon.
To add to my earlier comment about markets, census 2023 says that South Carolina is now the fastest growing state so I'm sure market will reflect that.
Great job will doot, Good job Mona vision! 😊
Thank you, Tough Tony. UNC to B1G will be recorded tomorrow. Hope you enjoy!
Thank you for the kudos.
Can you do this for all big12 teams
That might cause a stir in our (Big12) neck of the woods.
@@wildute6958Like it ain't in the sec, and B10? Lol. We have to wait until the 4 corner schools, and maybe after the 4 ACC schools join the B12. Right now it's impossible to calculate the B12's data, and coolness,, except in basketball, even before the 4 corners, and 4 ACC schools join. I guess it's football, and not basketball data.
Yes🎉
Is ILLINOIS the CAL of the B1G (roughly)? The State of IL was one of the most populated since 1900 and includes Chicago (the #3 city for a long time). Why hasn't the flagship been more successful in athletics? To the point I often see ILL included in a list of schools the B1G should consider kicking.
Clemson is either sec or big12
Clemson would be a goo fit. Miscellaneous Clemson doesnt have a huge fan base across the country!!!
Very true! Texas Tech, BYU, WV, and half of the B12 has fans, and alumni everywhere!!!
Great video.
1. Check the methodology on that 247 recruit survey. No where near following statistical standards. Featured recruits in the DMZ. I think recruiting team rankings is afar more evidence based metric for recruit attraction to programs.
2. Clemson and UDub are very close in all time wins (798 v 774).
Washington has lost a lot of FB games in the 21st century (2001 to present). Clemson (thanks to Dabo) has done really well during that period.
Take Dabo away from Clemson or Tyrone Willingham away from Washington and UDub is the better school. (Coulda, shoulda, woulda).
3. Clemson is a good looking candidate.
100% that Clemson is a good looking candidate. For us analytical dudes, there an infinite amount of variables to choose for a model. To me, while not perfect, this is the best out there. Thanks for watching!
Clemson is in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville,NC market but is close to larger markets, with Atlanta less than 2 hours south and Charlotte 2 hours north. Clemson is a top 25 public university, so all this silly talk in the comments about academics is unfounded. Clemson is in the process of creating a Vet school and has embarked on a program to double research (possibly designed to achieve AAU membership?).
You have to remember Clemson doesn't have the huge alumni base of a lot of the Big Ten schools. It was a small military college until the mid 1950s with 2,500 students. Even in the 19080s Clemson only had around 12,000 students. Currently Clemson is about 24,000 students, so still small relative to most public Big Ten universities. Clemson has long punched well above its weight.
Very informative, thanks! My comment would be that 6/7 data points are tied to brand, so your overall ranking is potentially too heavy on brand, and light on academics for a conference like the Big 10. Brand could be defined by multiple sub-points, then, mixed with academics in any % blend. This blend is conference dependent. In addition, there is no room in this analysis for Strategic Value, which can become an overriding factor (eg, Rutgers and Maryland for cable network value...or if they wanted to lean into a market, like Atlanta, to compete with the SEC, or grab a school to strengthen basketball). Strategic Value could be hard to quantify, but can be discussed at the end.
Nice points, thanks Mr Money
I understand the emotional value of adding a basketball school but not the financial value. Football pays the bills. The attraction of a school would necessarily be tied to the strength of their football program and football viewership is where the money comes from. Another item that factors in is the revenue generation record. Some schools just don’t bring in enough revenue to be additive to the conference. If a school only generates $30m for the conference and gets $70m back, that $40m deficit doesn’t come out of the pocket of the conference but the member schools. Every conference has founding member schools that are financial drags that the conference is stuck with but going out and adding another one makes no sense.
@505premoto The point is that conferences may place strategic value on a school that is not directly or cleanly captured in this, or any, generic data model.
@@mrmonkeysays Yes, strategic value aspect could always be the Black Swan that no one knows except a few decision makers. That is possible. To me, it’s still worth embarking on analyzing the available data points to see where a school measures despite not having all the private (Black Swan) information. It helps me and others understand the field more.
@wildute6958 Agreed. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. There is enough known data to create interesting and useful models. I see strategic value as a peripheral discussion because it is difficult to quantify, especially generically. Strategic value, itself, may not be easily defined in a silo. I'm thinking of the value of school A, by itself, vs school A, with school B, or as a means to obtain school B, or a means to create a pod. It's all so interesting to consider.
Here is what hurts Clemson: The numbers, Think “Musical Chairs” there are only so many chairs to go around in the Big 10. The best way to compare Clemson is to the possible competition for one of those chairs. Obviously ND & FSU rank higher. But what about a Utah? ASU? Miami? T A & M who hates Texas so much they have “Goodbye to Texas University” in their fight song. Maybe they want to jump to the Big 10? Then what about when Dabo leaves? You might end up with a Nebraska.type situation? Poor research, no AAU status, and underachieving football. No thank you.
Clemson is a good school in what they do. They are an Automotive and Aerospace Engineering School, They have a good business school, and they have a good Nursing School. They are good in what they do. They are not a big school (20,000 students) They don't offer the range like the bigger Big Ten schools that have a lot more students.
Clemson won't be the first choice for the B1G this round of expansion. However, they are a B1G-type brand, offer strong football, bring new markets (including ATL), and are a geographic bridge to FSU. That's a lot of benefit.
My prediction: Step 1 will be Florida State and Notre Dame going to the Big Ten. That will cause the dominos to fall just like it did with the PAC-10. In the chaos, the Big Ten will go to four 6-team divisions by adding Stanford and Cal to the West, and any two of Clemson, Georgia Tech, or Miami to the East (joining Penn State, Florida State, Maryland, and Rutgers).
I like the research and presentation. However, the Market slide seems wrong. Seattle (home to Washington) is the #13 market in the country. I have no idea why the data you found has glaring errors.
Illinois (Urbana-Champagne), Penn State, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are woefully incorrect. I looked up the data so I'm not just speculating.
With Dabo Swinney not using the transfer portal and NIL era of college football effectively, Clemson would fit right in at the B1G. They would be another sacrificial lamb like so many others; Michigan State, Mizzou, Maryland, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Rutgers, etc... Teams that don't have the slightest chance of ever winning a conference championship.
Waste of a Big Ten spot if you ask me. Let Clemson go to the SEC.
I am not sure what the Big Ten should do in the East. But I am certain it should not include adding Clemson.
Hugely bad assumption to believe that each of the seven categories has equal weight to the B1G. Do you have any reason to believe that recruiting and perception are nearly equal to academics, market, and viewership?
Academic ranking is very importing. Being very low in comparison to other schools is very important. It makes no sense to not consider this vital to the B1G. The SEC might not care, but the B1G does. Clemson is neither great nor elite to the B1G. Clemson ranks a lot lower than most of the league.
How does Clemson spend research dollars? If it is in agricultural, the AAU does not include ag and might sadly hurt Clemson, as it does to Nebraska?
The Columbia SC market is 79th in the country and Charleston is 99th. They are the only two in the state in the top 100 and are shared with U South Car. Right now the B1G has the number 1, 2, 3, 4, 9. 14. and 17 in the top 20 in the country. When the B1G got its new $7 to $8 billion dollar deal, they very openly were excited about having the reach from NYC to Chicago to LA, the top 3 markets in the country.
As far as financials, RU and UMD do not get full B1G shares, since they both borrowed a lot of money to buy into the BTN.
By the way, the Rutgers market is 21 million in NYC and another few million in South Jersey, for a total of nearly 25 million.
Perhaps Clemson can get a B1G invite, but not based on these factors being close to equal.
Clemson is saved in your rankings by perception and ranking, which may not matter to the B1G at all.
What would your weights be?
Universities do not spend research dollars; individual faculty do. Research dollars are a measure of faculty quality, along with publications and Ph. D.’s graduated.
Where did they get THESE financials since it has been reported that Penn State reached the $200 Million Dollar Club for 2022 - 2023 year? to go from 100+ million for anOSu, UM and Penn State to over 200? Doesn't seem correct at all....Tops are anOSU, Texas, UM, Penn State, Alabama. < These are the ONLY members listed as the $200 million dollar earners. Everyone else is below 200.
These are 6/22 figures. You’re probably talking about the 6/23 figures, which we’ll use when all of the B1G schools release them here soon.
Where are you getting your data? The top five were Ohio St., Texas, Alabama, Michigan and Georgia in that order. There are plenty of news reports with the top 5 revenue earners.
@@jansonroberts2616Yes, good questions. Not taking total athletic revenue data here. Instead only looking at 3 of several complements of athletic revenue: ticket sales, licensing, and misc. Check out Sportico’s College Sports Finances Database for Clemson to see the slicing of revenues. It’s fun stuff!
They may get in but the reason Clemson has been so quiet as the ACC fails might be due to them not having a better home. They are a tweener in that the SEC doesn't need them but that is the natural home.
It could be, or maybe they do have a home and are being coy about it. Cloak and dagger.
their natural home is probably the Big 12 but they praying that the football is good enough to carry them into a P2 spot. They might end up the Kings of the Big 12 which is "mid major" in the new landscape. Like the Gonzaga of College Football.
@@tomdemay6147 OR...Big 12 can pick up enough that they make it a P3 CFB League...versus just a P2 and Everyone else. I would prefer a 3 League CFB world. The ACC "could" have been one of those P3...but they are as ARROGANT and DUMB as the PAC Losers! There are enough quality candidates to make a P3 and make it competitive and interesting. The ACC without the top 2 teams is NOT going to make it........
THE ONLY way the ACC survives is IF.....Notre Dame joins as a full football member. THAT may be a legitimate option for ND....so they can get an easy path to the CFB Playoff and Home Field advantage in a weakened ACC (without FSU, maybe even no Clemson either?)
@@josephcernansky1794 The ACC had the only feasible path to be a peer P3 but that required a new media deal with ESPN. Any arrogance or stupidity played no role.
The BIG12 has no feasible path to be a peer P3.
@@josephcernansky1794 it makes no financial sense for ND to join the ACC. ND already makes more money outside the ACC. ND would be taking a paycut and a MASSIVE one at that if its a ACC without FSU and other top teams. ND would prefer to be Independent but if they have to join a conference it will be BIG 10 especially if Big 10 has the power ACC teams like FSU and Clemson.
Clemson does not bring anything to the Big Ten except flash in the pan football.
Let Clemson go to the SEC.
For Clemson to join the Big Ten, I would have to see either an existing relationship with other Big Ten schools, an aid to our footprint e.g. travel partner with current member or candidate, etc.
I do not see it. All I see if a money move that does not cement Clemson as a longterm Big Ten member. Every other Big Ten expansion candidate had some prior history or add to logistics - something beyond just market and money.
Clemson should go to the SEC. Just forces with South Carolina.
As a lifelong Midwesterner who spent time on the East Coast and B1G alum, Clemson is a hard pass for me unless our top 4 or 5 options are unavailable. First, their entire program and legacy are dependent on one sport and one coach. What do they offer in basketball, women’s volleyball, hockey, wrestling, and other popular B1G sports if football success can’t be sustained after Dabo? They offer very little in terms of attractive content for the Big Ten Network.
Bringing on Oregon was the exception and not the norm when it comes to universities with low research investment. At least Oregon is backed by a global athletic research corporation (Nike) and close to Seattle which is a hub for science and engineering. AAU status aside, Clemson is backed by who and close to what? Sure, ATL offers access to food and health sciences, but how does that spill over to Clemson in any way, shape, or form?
Lastly, unlike North Carolina, South Carolina is just a poor cultural fit. It has a small TV market and it hasn’t been verified that Georgia residents follow Clemson sports before and after Dabo. And it’s not an ideal destination for B1G fans who travel by the thousands with our friends and family to games compared to a destination like Miami. Unlike Florida, Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, SC is not an ideal place for B1G alums and donors to retire either.
By every metric and measure, Clemson belongs in the SEC with the Big 12 as an alternative if the B1G is prioritizing other schools as we should.
"And it’s not an ideal destination for B1G fans who travel by the thousands with our friends and family to games compared to a destination like Miami. Unlike Florida, Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, SC is not an ideal place for B1G alums and donors to retire either."
@@josephcernansky1794 Okay, you didn't respond to anything I wrote but just rambled off subject.
First, I love in Chicago which has the second most skyscrapers than any other city in the United States. I have more skyscrapers on my street (State) than in all of the Carolinas.
Second, Chicago has the largest concentration of B1G alums. LA is 2nd. NYC is 3rd. DC is 4th. This was validated on a Wall Street Journal study. Again, we don't migrate to or live in South Carolina.
Third, you clearly don't know about PSU's realignment history. JoePa wanted to form his own Northeast conference but schools like Syracuse and Boston College weren't interested so it went nowhere. After that he started talks with the B1G. The ACC was always the third option and the ACC had no idea PSU was talking to the B1G until it was announced.
Lastly, nothing you said refutes the fact that Clemson would be a poor fit over ND, UNC, FSU, Miami, and UVA.
Women's Softball #5, Men's Soccer # 1 last two years Women's Soccer #2, Men's Baseball #11, Women's Gymnastics # 23, Men's Basketball will make the NCAA Tournament (they are annual bubble team, Men's Golf - Top 10, Women's Lacrosse Top 10 -- heartbreak clearly does not know what he is talking about.
@@lhornet52 Softball, soccer, baseball, lacrosse, and gymnastics are ranked what in terms of revenue for schools and TV ratings for the B1G? PAC-12 schools are great at swimming and beach volleyball, but those are not the key levers for the B1G conference. If Clemson wants to join the B1G then Clemson needs to be good at actual B1G sports or academics.
ACC basketball currently sucks. FSU and Miami have a stronger case to make there and they're still unranked. Of course UNC and UVA has the strongest case. And Clemson is currently 11th in the ACC in women's college basketball so that does nothing to build upon the momentum of Iowa and Caitlyn Clark.
If Dabo leaves and Clemson likely becomes a middle of the pack football school, what else does the school do well that complements the B1G in sports and academics? The sports you listed aren't any of the revenue and ratings sports for the B1G.
@@heartbreak25 Look at the video. Clemson football has been historically good. You are putting up Women's basketball, swimming and beach volleyball as your big revenue sports over baseball, soccer, and softball ? I rest my case. That's an absolute joke.
Oregon is a academic joke
At least the State of South Carolina still has standards for their high school graduates.... Oregon is so woke that NO standards are allowed in Oregon!! EVERYONE gets a degree and a trophy!! Besides....the Carolinas in the fall beats anywhere in the Horizontal Universe...ANY TIME of the year!! Better to play in the south in November than the tundra of the Upper Midwest!!
They are an all around joke too .
As a Big 10 person (Ohio State), no Clemson doesn't remotely fit into the conference. We, the residents, don't want or need FSU or Clemson. Also as a Great Lakes Midwesterner, I would NEVER wish these two fanbases on the Plains Midwesterners. Who want to hear them complain all of the time when the ACC hasn't been to the playoffs since OSU beat Clemson in 2020.
Clemson has beaten OSU 4 out of 5 times. The only time OSU beat Clemson was the COVID year that they took off the month of December to prepare for playing them while Clemson played a 11 games.
Still salty after all those Clemson beat downs are we?
Have to call BS on the Academic Rankings. Clemson is not AAU. The B1G already has a community college in Nebraska, don't need another one.
Despite the low B1G stack ranking, Clemson is a top 80 school in the nation.
Clemson is not a big10 school.
David, we can agree to disagree, my friend. I think Clemson gets into the B1G.
You made be right. But neither is Southern Cal or Washington. But here we are.
@@davesteller6301 Yep, here we are! Clemson is definitely a B1G candidate.
Yet
Not by any stretch of the imagination.