I liked this video a lot. It was nice to see a bike being ridden in a relatively normal manner. This I feel is more how most owners will treat a bike that they’ve paid serious money for.
Interesting. Actually comparing the serviceability, and longtime stock of repair parts, between all big brands is veeeeery interesting. Changing the bearings and any cog that might get damaged, as well as reseting the unit in case of some error, is the main things I can think off. I've seen Bosch talk about providing spare parts for six years after the last of a motor unit model has been produced, and being able to send it to Bosch for service, but I would like to hear real world examples of this working. Yamaha motors being serviceable is very good, but for how long will spare parts be availeble!? Sad to think an Emtb becomes junk after 7-10 years.
I seriously think my next motor will be a Yamaha then. If it can be serviced and you can get parts for it, I'm in. But, I would like another frame for it.
Great video, so little good information out there about the MORO 07 and how it compares to other eMTB's. I have looked at the geo of this bike so many times but found it a little confusing (70 deg sear tube!?) and the size, reach. From your experiences it sounds like the medium would be a better fit for me as I am 179 cm?
Yeah, the seat tube angle is a bit confusing, it's not as slack as it sounds though. I was happy riding size M, but I believe you could ride L too, if you value a safe/stable bike over a more nimble one.
Unfortunately, it's just a wooden stick (: I'm looking for a nice stand myself, but usually end up using the first stick I can find in the woods... Here are some photos www.emtbforums.com/ams/yamaha-moro-07-introduction-test-ride.70/
One of the most detailed review on this bike. The price on these are getting so low I am seriously considering getting one of these for my 13 year old daughter. She isn't an aggressive rider at all. You mentioned several times it's very stable and confident which sounds great for someone new to riding. Our trails are mostly flat being in south Texas not much elevation. What are your thoughts on putting younger riders on the moro?
Thanks. I'll be careful about recommending buying such bikes for kids. But I know 13 year olds do ride this kind of bikes. I guess it depends on their skill level and experience. Junior/kids ebikes often have restricted motor cutoff speed, to like 20kph. This can be done in apps for some motors, not sure if it's an option on the Yamaha PW-X3 though.
I'm not sure what the youth riding scene is like in Texas but in here in Northern AZ there is a very active youth riding community. The NAZ youth riding community is non-eMTB focused. If you're daughter is interested in riding in high school, possibly on a team, I would not get her an eMTB until you see what eMTB options are available in your community. (My reference is from being a middle/high school "coach" and my son raced enduro.)
Yeah she isn’t interested at all apparently. I was only considering it to get her outside with me more. She is about to turn 13 and just isn’t interested.
Have you noticed any abnormalities regarding the engine overheating? Giant also uses the Yamaha PW-X3 (SynchDrive Pro2) and you often read there that the engine quickly overheats if you drive continuously in the highest mode. Then a red LED flashes and the motor only outputs the power of Eco mode until it has cooled down again. That's the only reason why I don't want to buy a Giant Reign E+ 2022 and would rather buy a Canyon Strive:On CFR, Mondraker Level RR 2023, Propain Ekano 2 AL or Canyon Spectral:ON CF. I think the Torque:ON CF is very cool, but it still has the old EP800 motor, which is why I prefer not to buy it because the EP801 has more peak power at a 70-110 cadence. I would prefer a Brose Drive S Mag because it doesn't rattle, but there are no good enduro freeride bikes with good equipment for up to €6500. And there are so many people who use Bosch and Shimano and the rattling doesn't bother them that much. My choice will probably be a Strive:ON CFR or Mondraker Level RR 2023. The Strive:ON doesn't look that cool and it probably rattles extremely loudly, due to resonances in the frame or something. The Mondraker Level RR looks incredibly cool and would actually be my dream bike, but it is extremely heavy. The non-removable battery doesn't bother me and makes the bike more stable and the battery can't rattle. I weigh quite a lot myself, so the Mondraker Level would be optimal because the rear triangle has a very low gear ratio (75mm stroke with 170mm travel) and I can therefore use a softer spring. But it's just so difficult. The Strive:ON would be made of carbon, also has a reasonably low gear ratio (65mm stroke at 160mm), has a steeper seat angle, mullet, slacker head angle, but, as I said, I've heard from many that the bike rattles very loudly Comparison to other Bosch CX bikes🤷🏼♂️
I haven't noticed the overheating myself, I rode a lot on a 2016 Yamaha PW 70 Nm, which was fine. I haven't ridden that much with the latest Yamaha/Giant motors, and much of the season isn't very warm around here. When I tested the PW-X3 briefly the temperature was below 20*C, no issues of course. I believe Canyon intended to swap for the EP801 motor on the Torque:ON, might happen soon... And yeah, I'd want the EP801. I've got the Strive:ON waiting to be reviewed, barely ridden it so far, but it looks promising. Looks like a short, low, playful rear end has been blended with a tall and burly front end. That might sound a bit strange, but it makes sense when riding the bike. Didn't strike me as particularily noisy, but I need to ride it more. There has been reports of some bikes having the battery latch fail, I guess the battery would move and rattle on those bikes. I never rode the Level, but I did appreciate the Crafty! I like the looks of it. And even though I'm a lightweight rider, I can appreciate not having too high leverage ratio. And yeah, there's also an upside to having a non-detachable battery, fewer parts that rattle and less weight. I've ridden the Orbea Wild H10 lately, and I've barely noticed any rattle. I noticed it like once on my last ride, and that was when coasting calmly over chatter/rocks. Perhaps a more lightweight carbon Wild could be an alternative? And perhaps the Specialized Kenevo can be found with a bit of discount these days? Specialized/de is listing the Kenevo Expert at €6.800 www.specialized.com/de/en/kenevo-expert/p/199955?color=322116-199955
I had once a failure indication on my 2022 Giant Reign while riding a hard rocky trail and hit a stone. I red that the battery indicator shows you the kind of failure. Depending which LED is blinking red. Mine showed me that the speed sensor measured wrong data. So I turned it off and on again and everything was good. The giant app also showed me no internal failure. That was the first and till now last time I saw the red LED.
A serviceable motor would be great, but even better would be a motor warranty that lasts as long as the motor is supposed to. 2 years is not nearly long enough.
Yeah, in Norway we've got 5 yrs warranty. One could argue the motor should last longer than that too. One problem is the warranty will be void if the motor is serviced, and waiting 5 years before servicing it could be too late.
At the price they are selling them for in the US right now, you can hire somebody to carry your water for you and still have some leftover for lunch. About 2700 out the door with a second free battery with a five-year warranty.
👍. What’s the reliability, durability & battery life like? It’s pretty expensive for a e-bike. Considering u can buy motorbikes for this price…. The tech isn’t new nothing revolutionary…. So why are push & e-bikes come to think of it even e-scooters so expensive?
This bike has an advantage over many other ebikes in the sense that the motor can be servicedby your dealer. This should improve durability. Yeah, ebikes are quite expensive. Where I live, the Moro 07 is quite competitively priced though.
@@EMTBVideos. Didn’t realise u can’t service other manufacturers gearboxes. Just been looking into e-bikes. Just starting to scratch the surface…. Yeah they are ridiculously expensive. In most cases I can kind of understand $ 5k, but $ 9k for a e-bike. U can buy motorcycles for that price…. I guess I’m just trying to understand in this case. where the $ 9k is for a push bike. If it was a revolutionary bike… In your opinion what would be a good reliable dual shock e-bike ?
@@holden3083 Have you looked at the price of non motorized high end bicycles. Some of them go for over $10,000. These bikes are made for someone who wants to ride a bicycle but is serious about bike riding. Riding in the wilderness with a very quiet ebike is a completely different experience than riding with a motorcycle or scooter. Maybe electric motorcycles, dirt bikes or scooters might be a similar experience. Still, there's something about using, at least, some of your own power that makes the whole experience different.
Just opening and cleaning the motor should go a long way, then regreasing and possibly replacing seals. Yamaha dealers have access to spare parts too. I believe you need to go to a dealer to have the motor opened without voiding the warranty. I'd ask the local shop.
It's not designed to be ridden without a battery. But, like most/all other emtbs, it can be ridden without the battery. It probably won't be very fun or inspiring, but it can be done.
@@EMTBVideos Remove the battery and the motor and you have a 17kg bike. Maybe Yamaha can offer a bottom bracket adapter as an option in future models for when you want to ride it manually without the motor.
The 465 mm chainstays and low front end will pull the rider weight and centre-of-gravity forwards. Sure, the seat angle is slack, but I'm pretty sure the "effective seat angle" isn't 70*. That's insanely slack. It could be the "actual STA", which can't be compared to other brands stating effective STA. Even though a slack seat angle moves the rider weight back over the rear wheel, there are limits to how far back the rider can go while still reaching the handlebars.
Now that I have ridden mine for 2 months, i really love it. It does wheely on uphills a lot. Large moro, 230lbs rider, advanced beginner skills. I usually blame it on my skills but i wonder now after rereading
Yeah who is going to buy a 500Wh battery in 2023? Minimum 750Wh. If you are on Shimano then you have 20% less range so even 750Wh isn't enough. Can usually do 60km on a 750Wh Bosch as you pedal the transitions somewhat against the limiter. Have done 70km on turbo trying to maintain 180-200 watts against the limiter in a heavy headwind. But it's not quite enough for 4 hours. Need an extender for that. I would do 800Wh battery and a 250Wh extender. But 750Wh and 300Wh would be fine as well. I can't have what I want so just looking for some combination of high BB, removable battery 750+Wh, not Shimano and an extender. But even with those so few bikes offer an extender that might have to compromise on that as well. Maybe I can soon order 3D printed frames from someone so I can just get the right geo and then just choose the motor system I want. On Cube Stereo 160 27,5" BB drop is 12mm but it's too low for that suspension system. A lot of pedal hits even after switching to 155mm cranks. Preferably 29" axle height 0mm drop. But Pole is the only bike with that. I much prefer 27" feel but it's going to be 29" if you want to race segments.
I don't want a huge battery. I want 2 smaller batteries I can swap. 1 is in the car and the other is on the bike. actually 400 wh is good enough for me.
@@TeamCykelhold That is a marginal amount of riders that are happy with that sort of range. I calculated it and Bosch batteries weigh 560 grams per 100Wh so you would basically save 2,3kg of weight with a 400Wh battery vs an 800Wh one. Or in the case of 500Wh to 750Wh 1,5kg. Worth it? On a 20+kg bike as well. Usually lightest full power bikes are 23kg.
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I liked this video a lot. It was nice to see a bike being ridden in a relatively normal manner. This I feel is more how most owners will treat a bike that they’ve paid serious money for.
This was a really great video to see! Just bought my own moro-07 and still Small things to learn
Fantastic review. Thx for the details.
@8:03 - thank you. I was in the fence on sizing. Im 181 cm and will order Medium based on your opinion. Very useful video on everything. Nice job!
@@88jbc yes. I bought 2!
@@jitterspec Do you like it so far? I'm considering buying one tomorrow
@educatedguess5093 its awesome. Don't wait!
Im 185cm and even large doesnt feel large enough. Even my wife ar 5'8 prefers large
Interesting. Actually comparing the serviceability, and longtime stock of repair parts, between all big brands is veeeeery interesting.
Changing the bearings and any cog that might get damaged, as well as reseting the unit in case of some error, is the main things I can think off.
I've seen Bosch talk about providing spare parts for six years after the last of a motor unit model has been produced, and being able to send it to Bosch for service, but I would like to hear real world examples of this working. Yamaha motors being serviceable is very good, but for how long will spare parts be availeble!? Sad to think an Emtb becomes junk after 7-10 years.
Nice video! I also have a Yamaha Moro-07 and it's a very good all-round ebike :) What mudguards are you using?
As a hard tail rider, this looks like a beast! Gud components. Does the battery die in a few years???
I seriously think my next motor will be a Yamaha then. If it can be serviced and you can get parts for it, I'm in. But, I would like another frame for it.
Great video, so little good information out there about the MORO 07 and how it compares to other eMTB's. I have looked at the geo of this bike so many times but found it a little confusing (70 deg sear tube!?) and the size, reach. From your experiences it sounds like the medium would be a better fit for me as I am 179 cm?
Yeah, the seat tube angle is a bit confusing, it's not as slack as it sounds though. I was happy riding size M, but I believe you could ride L too, if you value a safe/stable bike over a more nimble one.
Can you tell me what stand is attached to the YDX moro on your PC wallpaper?
Unfortunately, it's just a wooden stick (: I'm looking for a nice stand myself, but usually end up using the first stick I can find in the woods... Here are some photos
www.emtbforums.com/ams/yamaha-moro-07-introduction-test-ride.70/
One of the most detailed review on this bike. The price on these are getting so low I am seriously considering getting one of these for my 13 year old daughter. She isn't an aggressive rider at all. You mentioned several times it's very stable and confident which sounds great for someone new to riding. Our trails are mostly flat being in south Texas not much elevation. What are your thoughts on putting younger riders on the moro?
Thanks. I'll be careful about recommending buying such bikes for kids. But I know 13 year olds do ride this kind of bikes. I guess it depends on their skill level and experience. Junior/kids ebikes often have restricted motor cutoff speed, to like 20kph. This can be done in apps for some motors, not sure if it's an option on the Yamaha PW-X3 though.
I'm not sure what the youth riding scene is like in Texas but in here in Northern AZ there is a very active youth riding community. The NAZ youth riding community is non-eMTB focused. If you're daughter is interested in riding in high school, possibly on a team, I would not get her an eMTB until you see what eMTB options are available in your community. (My reference is from being a middle/high school "coach" and my son raced enduro.)
Yeah she isn’t interested at all apparently. I was only considering it to get her outside with me more. She is about to turn 13 and just isn’t interested.
Have you noticed any abnormalities regarding the engine overheating? Giant also uses the Yamaha PW-X3 (SynchDrive Pro2) and you often read there that the engine quickly overheats if you drive continuously in the highest mode. Then a red LED flashes and the motor only outputs the power of Eco mode until it has cooled down again. That's the only reason why I don't want to buy a Giant Reign E+ 2022 and would rather buy a Canyon Strive:On CFR, Mondraker Level RR 2023, Propain Ekano 2 AL or Canyon Spectral:ON CF. I think the Torque:ON CF is very cool, but it still has the old EP800 motor, which is why I prefer not to buy it because the EP801 has more peak power at a 70-110 cadence. I would prefer a Brose Drive S Mag because it doesn't rattle, but there are no good enduro freeride bikes with good equipment for up to €6500. And there are so many people who use Bosch and Shimano and the rattling doesn't bother them that much. My choice will probably be a Strive:ON CFR or Mondraker Level RR 2023. The Strive:ON doesn't look that cool and it probably rattles extremely loudly, due to resonances in the frame or something. The Mondraker Level RR looks incredibly cool and would actually be my dream bike, but it is extremely heavy. The non-removable battery doesn't bother me and makes the bike more stable and the battery can't rattle. I weigh quite a lot myself, so the Mondraker Level would be optimal because the rear triangle has a very low gear ratio (75mm stroke with 170mm travel) and I can therefore use a softer spring. But it's just so difficult. The Strive:ON would be made of carbon, also has a reasonably low gear ratio (65mm stroke at 160mm), has a steeper seat angle, mullet, slacker head angle, but, as I said, I've heard from many that the bike rattles very loudly Comparison to other Bosch CX bikes🤷🏼♂️
I haven't noticed the overheating myself, I rode a lot on a 2016 Yamaha PW 70 Nm, which was fine. I haven't ridden that much with the latest Yamaha/Giant motors, and much of the season isn't very warm around here. When I tested the PW-X3 briefly the temperature was below 20*C, no issues of course.
I believe Canyon intended to swap for the EP801 motor on the Torque:ON, might happen soon... And yeah, I'd want the EP801. I've got the Strive:ON waiting to be reviewed, barely ridden it so far, but it looks promising. Looks like a short, low, playful rear end has been blended with a tall and burly front end. That might sound a bit strange, but it makes sense when riding the bike. Didn't strike me as particularily noisy, but I need to ride it more. There has been reports of some bikes having the battery latch fail, I guess the battery would move and rattle on those bikes.
I never rode the Level, but I did appreciate the Crafty! I like the looks of it. And even though I'm a lightweight rider, I can appreciate not having too high leverage ratio. And yeah, there's also an upside to having a non-detachable battery, fewer parts that rattle and less weight. I've ridden the Orbea Wild H10 lately, and I've barely noticed any rattle. I noticed it like once on my last ride, and that was when coasting calmly over chatter/rocks. Perhaps a more lightweight carbon Wild could be an alternative?
And perhaps the Specialized Kenevo can be found with a bit of discount these days? Specialized/de is listing the Kenevo Expert at €6.800
www.specialized.com/de/en/kenevo-expert/p/199955?color=322116-199955
I had once a failure indication on my 2022 Giant Reign while riding a hard rocky trail and hit a stone. I red that the battery indicator shows you the kind of failure. Depending which LED is blinking red. Mine showed me that the speed sensor measured wrong data. So I turned it off and on again and everything was good. The giant app also showed me no internal failure. That was the first and till now last time I saw the red LED.
Theres a video of someone riding moro 07 in death valley in spring i believe and the motor cutting off suddenly for a min or 2.
A serviceable motor would be great, but even better would be a motor warranty that lasts as long as the motor is supposed to. 2 years is not nearly long enough.
Yeah, in Norway we've got 5 yrs warranty. One could argue the motor should last longer than that too. One problem is the warranty will be void if the motor is serviced, and waiting 5 years before servicing it could be too late.
The only question I have, is where does the water bottle cage go?
In your back sack 😮
At the price they are selling them for in the US right now, you can hire somebody to carry your water for you and still have some leftover for lunch. About 2700 out the door with a second free battery with a five-year warranty.
@@southernebiking Hahahaha, yea I've seen the sale, that's why I'm looking up reviews. I sweat like crazy so I need a lot of water.
@@Clint_the_Audio-Photo_Guy i am waiting on the moro pro. I told them I would upgrade to the 07 if they could get one in earlier
Yamaha makes you to use your brain..no water bottle holder? end of the world? Lmao 😂
Super
hey, when will you test Orbea Wild 2023? :)
Working on another bike now, but the H10 is the next in line (:
@@EMTBVideos nice. I have upgraded H20 with better shock and zeb 180mm if you want to try it. 😁
👍. What’s the reliability, durability & battery life like? It’s pretty expensive for a e-bike. Considering u can buy motorbikes for this price…. The tech isn’t new nothing revolutionary…. So why are push & e-bikes come to think of it even e-scooters so expensive?
This bike has an advantage over many other ebikes in the sense that the motor can be servicedby your dealer. This should improve durability. Yeah, ebikes are quite expensive. Where I live, the Moro 07 is quite competitively priced though.
@@EMTBVideos. Didn’t realise u can’t service other manufacturers gearboxes. Just been looking into e-bikes. Just starting to scratch the surface…. Yeah they are ridiculously expensive. In most cases I can kind of understand $ 5k, but $ 9k for a e-bike. U can buy motorcycles for that price…. I guess I’m just trying to understand in this case. where the $ 9k is for a push bike. If it was a revolutionary bike…
In your opinion what would be a good reliable dual shock e-bike ?
@@holden3083 Have you looked at the price of non motorized high end bicycles. Some of them go for over $10,000. These bikes are made for someone who wants to ride a bicycle but is serious about bike riding. Riding in the wilderness with a very quiet ebike is a completely different experience than riding with a motorcycle or scooter. Maybe electric motorcycles, dirt bikes or scooters might be a similar experience. Still, there's something about using, at least, some of your own power that makes the whole experience different.
Just ordered my Moro 07. At 2913,60€ brand new it was too good to just pass by. 😅
Where did you find one for that price? Thanx for the answer.
But there is only a 500wh battery. That’s a shame…
What do you need to service in a electric motor?
Just opening and cleaning the motor should go a long way, then regreasing and possibly replacing seals. Yamaha dealers have access to spare parts too. I believe you need to go to a dealer to have the motor opened without voiding the warranty. I'd ask the local shop.
Can the bike be ridden without the battery?
It's not designed to be ridden without a battery. But, like most/all other emtbs, it can be ridden without the battery. It probably won't be very fun or inspiring, but it can be done.
@@EMTBVideos Remove the battery and the motor and you have a 17kg bike. Maybe Yamaha can offer a bottom bracket adapter as an option in future models for when you want to ride it manually without the motor.
Everyone agrees this bike is rear heavy with seat tube leveraging your weight back. To say it climbs because its front heavy is wrong i believe
In fact thats why you could tell from the geo that a mullet is out of the question yet someone here on yt tried and failed.
Great videos btw
The 465 mm chainstays and low front end will pull the rider weight and centre-of-gravity forwards. Sure, the seat angle is slack, but I'm pretty sure the "effective seat angle" isn't 70*. That's insanely slack. It could be the "actual STA", which can't be compared to other brands stating effective STA. Even though a slack seat angle moves the rider weight back over the rear wheel, there are limits to how far back the rider can go while still reaching the handlebars.
Bike is very stable..no rear or front heavy issue..pretty nimble..
Now that I have ridden mine for 2 months, i really love it. It does wheely on uphills a lot. Large moro, 230lbs rider, advanced beginner skills. I usually blame it on my skills but i wonder now after rereading
5900€ with very good price a year ago and now it's 2913€. That's a good price 🤣
I just ordered one for $3800
@@88jbc I got it for $2600 out the door
I just bought one for 3400
@88jbc when mine showed up at the bike store it was $2600. Best deal
Yeah who is going to buy a 500Wh battery in 2023? Minimum 750Wh. If you are on Shimano then you have 20% less range so even 750Wh isn't enough. Can usually do 60km on a 750Wh Bosch as you pedal the transitions somewhat against the limiter. Have done 70km on turbo trying to maintain 180-200 watts against the limiter in a heavy headwind. But it's not quite enough for 4 hours. Need an extender for that. I would do 800Wh battery and a 250Wh extender. But 750Wh and 300Wh would be fine as well.
I can't have what I want so just looking for some combination of high BB, removable battery 750+Wh, not Shimano and an extender. But even with those so few bikes offer an extender that might have to compromise on that as well. Maybe I can soon order 3D printed frames from someone so I can just get the right geo and then just choose the motor system I want. On Cube Stereo 160 27,5" BB drop is 12mm but it's too low for that suspension system. A lot of pedal hits even after switching to 155mm cranks. Preferably 29" axle height 0mm drop. But Pole is the only bike with that. I much prefer 27" feel but it's going to be 29" if you want to race segments.
Nothing wrong with a 500Wh battery, but when the bike is so heavy it kind of defeats the purpose of a smaller battery.
@@blakkpatron The range is what is wrong with a 500Wh battery. It's not enough.
I don't want a huge battery. I want 2 smaller batteries I can swap. 1 is in the car and the other is on the bike. actually 400 wh is good enough for me.
@@TeamCykelhold ye trouble is with a smaller battery I would expect the bike to be in the 20kg range, not 24-25kg
@@TeamCykelhold That is a marginal amount of riders that are happy with that sort of range. I calculated it and Bosch batteries weigh 560 grams per 100Wh so you would basically save 2,3kg of weight with a 400Wh battery vs an 800Wh one. Or in the case of 500Wh to 750Wh 1,5kg. Worth it? On a 20+kg bike as well. Usually lightest full power bikes are 23kg.