🔥Oxalic Acid Mite Sponges are they Worth it??
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 фев 2023
- Recipe at the end of this video === • 💥Making Randy Oliver's...
Wettex Original Swedish Dishcloths: amzn.to/3YPHVXi
Food Grade Vegetable Glycerin: amzn.to/3k1JiTX
--- scientificbeekeeping.com/mite...
Other beekeeping tools & equipment that we like and use from Amazon can be found here: www.amazon.com/shop/tennessee... 
Развлечения
![Extended Release Oxalic Acid [Expert How-To]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/futzS7w5Uy4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Extended Release Oxalic Acid [Expert How-To]](/img/tr.png)
Recipe at the end of this video === ruclips.net/video/5vMqRFjBcS8/видео.html
Wettex Original Swedish Dishcloths: amzn.to/3YPHVXi
Food Grade Vegetable Glycerin: amzn.to/3k1JiTX
--- scientificbeekeeping.com/mite-control-while-honey-is-on-the-hive-part-4/
Other beekeeping tools & equipment that we like and use from Amazon can be found here: www.amazon.com/shop/tennessees-bees
Andy from Irish Bees lists a treatment that he believes is 100% effective. Does take a while, does not involve chemicals and is effective enough for other beekeepers to employ him to treat their bees. He does it at the end of the season when the bees are broodless. He removes the bees into a circular mesh drum and heat treats them. I've seen lots of devices that treat with heat but if he is to be believed, his is way superior. He does not make and sell these, in fact he doesn't even list plans so he doesn't have much to gain.
Here is a link to the first video ruclips.net/video/0tljtR0BkMs/видео.html
Interesting I have seen that information before. However most of our bees in long seasons would die or be severely weakened by the time the end of our season was over unless we killed a lot of brood
Doesn’t sound like a very practical solution, especially since a good dose of OAV will accomplish the same thing on a broodless colony while not potentially harming the queen as heat can.
P.S. Everything is a chemical. Dihydrogenmonoxide is especially deadly. 😉 Oxalic acid is already an essential component of honey.
@@kamonreynolds But if you started the new season with no mites, treatment could be delayed and therefore time and money saved. It obviously would not be your sole treatment.
@@FlakeyPM that makes sense. I just mistook it to be a sole treatment idea. Maybe one day I can try something like that
I have a question I came up with after a few years of observation. I know a few live bee removal experts and have recieved bees from them from time to time. Some of these colonies were thriving for over 2 to 4 years in all cases without human intervention. Having massive honey stores and healthy hives and comb. They all had a mite issue but under control without humans giving any treatment. My question is why do those colonies survive so well without us getting involved? In most cases they were Italian Queens, 3 to 10 pounds of bees, and from comb history observed on these wild hives they all looked to have swarmed multiple times. Back to my question, how are they surviving so well?
good question!
This is purely speculation. I have 0 data to back this up.
I wonder if it is a function of the swarming. The swarms carry away a large portion of the mite load. The hive requeens with a massive brood break. The hives that survive in that environment now have either larger fat stores, a resistance to varroa viruses, or mate with drones that share more hygenic behavior.
Commercial hives on the other hand do everything they can to prevent swarming and keep all of the bees inside of their apiaries. They share amongst various brrod chambers to "equalize." This behavior unfortunately lends itself to two specific traits being sought out, honey production and massive colonies.
This is all to say, we are treating this issue like all other areas of agricultural endeavours. Throw the bandaid and chemical treatments (antibiotics) at the issues (which create stronger and stronger strains) instead of learning from God's design how to handle them.
@@shanetempleton7101 Well southern California living within Mexican roof shingles we still have hives from 5 years ago and they’re thriving. Instead of removing them we decided to turn it into a usable hive and we’re still harvesting honey from them. To each his own though.
@@stokedonearth5097 that's my point. Those bees are now a part of the landscape. They've survived and now have a genetic profile that lends itself to living "in harmony" with the various pests.
This is not really new. We use the same sponges to make Oxalic Acid strips in the same way, for a couple of years now in Europe. Even the Danish beekeepers association has adopted them as a way to treat against varroa mites. The original idea is from Argentina and has been tested and used there for years.
There are different brands for sale in stores.
There are more videos about Oxalic Acid Strips on youtube
Europe is ahead of the USA in the Varroa game. Hopefully, we can get a better handle on this situation. Keeping bees alive can be tough in some areas.
Randy Oliver has been working on them for a couple of years. Not sure who did it first.
Curious as to why you used the Swedish Towels (Dishcloth) at $1.38 a hive versus the Maximizer Pad at 17 cents per hive? That's an 8 fold difference. I know Randy Oliver said that the Swedish Towel had slightly higher efficacy but its appears negligible. I would think that you, as a commercial beekeeper, would be looking at a Cost/Benefit ratio and on that basis the Maximizer wins.
@@joealisauskas6993 I am not sure as I don't know exactly what the recycled material is. I just know Randy Oliver used it in his experiment.
Do you have a link for these pads? What are they made of?
Because I haven't tried them and I try to only share what I know. A friend showed me this method first and as a professional I am skeptical to try new things too en masse since I have made several costly mistakes that way! I saw the sponges working in others bee yards so I stuck with what I knew first. I may try the maximizer out this year though.
@@kamonreynolds Gotcha. I was just curious since both were in Randy’s article (original info source) and thought you had discovered some other advantage of the Swedish pads. I wish you well!!
I looked up the Maximizer pads Randy recommends but saw that they contain fire retardant (10% by weight) in the ingredients. None of the data sheets said what it was just "proprietary material." That scared me off as although they are very inexpensive, I don't like putting another chemical in the hive. Even something like boric acid (used for cellulose insulation as fire retardant) is not too harsh, but it is lethal to insects. One comment Randy made at his presentation just this past week is that he thinks it may be most effective to use Extended OA WITH your regular treatment. Ex. Put on with Formic Pro; FP does the quick kill and the EOA keeps it low. Anyway, great stuff, Kamon!! Bob @ Sun Mountain Apiary in NY
One of my local bee group buddies did this in some hives last year along with brood management and he had one mite found in 10 hives so he is ecstatic about this form of o/a use he is very pleased with it
No big commercial businesses want to say the they work because they get so many things and discounts or free to stay it in the video.
I had a guy who used blue shop towels and had hardly no mites with over a few hundred hives.
@@richardway3761 the blue shop towels will work but they don’t last as long and you have to reduce your o/a mixture a good bit , can actually save you money on o/a really, you just have to learn the timing of it for your bees to make sure it works good for you
How long do they last if I have some left over, and what is the best way to store them? Thank you Kamon.
Randy was asking the community to get connected with someone Senators regarding a bill to approve treatment with glycerin and acid oxalic besides EPA I was thinking a state were been soy grow and is few Illinois is the first and I search for some one found in California Representative Doug LaMalfa passed the news to Randy he may be able to reach Doug and discuss our situation. And in Illinois I sand a message to David Burns
If you were to get the permit through the EPA what would dosing for a 5 frame nuc be? I’m guessing 1-2 sponges if 4 for a double brood hive?
Thanks for the great video Kamon. Hope all is going well with you this season.
When I started with these I had only found Randy's initial 18g video... I knew you were testing 50g but I don't like to dose heavier than needed. I then found the 25g studies and how it showed that it was still working somewhat during the 2nd 35 days. So at 35 days with the 18g I added a set of 25g, leaving the 18's on. Another 35 days, I removed the 18s and added a new set of 25's. I started this at the beginning of August after a full OAV cycle. I tested monthly through November and both my hives were at zero mites... I did that rotation through then as well, before it got too cold.
Still a bit too chilly here in AZ for a full inspection or testing, but I will soon place my first spring set of 25's. I cut each strip into 4 pieces to spread them out a bit above the brood box. This also allows the 2nd batch to be interspersed between them... I rotate colors and make notes so I know which is the old and which is the new... Haven't decided if I will stop at some point and keep testing to see if they are just gone... I'm in the middle of nowhere, the only beekeeper, and very few feral bees around...
@Bob Zazoo What studies would those be... Randy Oliver's studies show that they do...
The 18 gram dose if for a full shop towel. If you apply these 2 or 3 times throughout a season (because the bees chew them up), you will have applied 36 to 54 grams in total to a hive.
The 25 gram dose is the amount applied in a single sponge or maximizer pad. These are half sponges and pads, so when you put two of them in a hive, you are applying 50 grams. My maximizer pads were inserted in early June and removed at the end of September since the bees do not chew them up. Richard Brickner
@@R_Brickner I only used the 18g once because it was the first Randy Oliver study I saw... I've never done shop towels... I rotate every 35 days so there is a fresh 25 and an old 25 at all times...
@@Amethyst1919 It looks like you have a good mite control regimen going. Glad you are sampling as most beekeepers don't so they have no idea what is going on.
I'm not sure what these pads are made of but I wonder if pig mat would work?
What is the Frequency in applying the oxalic sponge mixture?
I just use it once a year between normal treatments
RO made it clear from his tests that OADe is a mite reducer. Applying it is still a little tricky.
Now here is a curious question I haven't seen before.... Can you re-charge the pads after awhile, as long as the bees haven't shredded them?
No clue but it would be trickier as I imagine the sponges are lighter. Probably cheaper for the time invested to buy new pads
@@kamonreynolds Maybe so. We are talking $1.30/hive for the Wettex pads, which is pretty cheap to keep mites at bay for the whole spring. I'm reading the reference material now. Interesting stuff. Thanks for spreading the info, Lord Reynolds, ha ha.
there is a cheaper option called maximizer pads. I am looking into them now. cuts the cost by a good bit
You can not reuse them the acid eats them…dollar tree sham wow $1.25 will make 20ish
when I pulled mine off this spring(2023) the acid broke down the pads and crumbled into pieces, i threw them away in the trash.
Lost one hive but going to do much better on varrora this year.
That's the problem. It's not legal, but beekeepers are going to do it especially now with all the publicity. Been seeing Randy's work, but then saw the results from UGA- not as inpressive. Willing to kill all mites , if I'm legal.😁
Most people don’t realize that there aren’t many brands of oxalic acid that are approved for use on mites or maybe just one approved brand, so technically those folks are breaking the rules too , I can control mites with mineral oil and spearmint oil, the bees groom the dead mites and you can get a zero count and not break any rules , and it’s not dangerous
Did you say you leave the pads on for 70days?
How long do they last in a hive?
Hi Kaymon, from Ontario ( Ian’s Distant neighbour) I’ve been following Randy as well as you. I have all single brood. So on your singles you use 2 strips of the prepared said substrate. Will be using spring when brood builds up. Thanks for the videos.
Respected sir،
sir what did you know about Honey bee sting?
is it contain only formic acid?
We see mites building up resistance to other extended releases treatments. By using OA now in extended release aren’t we running the risk of seeing resistance build up?
we see..sorce?
For some reason RUclips unsubscribed me from the channel. Was wondering why I haven’t seen your videos in my recommendations. Subscribed again.
Thank you sir much appreciated! More on the way!
Same happened to me
But back ontrack now
You guys must have more varroa down south because we have areas up here on the eastern shore of Maryland that have zero counts and when you go west in the state you can have folks that are constantly having to treat because they always have some sort of count
using the strip paper version of these split the chamber as the queen was unwilling to passover to the other side of the strip version between frames. Don't recommend as a replacement.
are there any states in the US that this is illegal in?
All of them now! The epa just rescinded it all
Hello Kamon and thank you for your videos. Couple questions....watched your how to make these oxalic towel video and was wondering. If i only need a few say for couple hives what would be the recipe measurements. Also can you still do oxalic vapor wand treatments or formic if these are in place or should they be removed then reapplied. Thanks again
Thank you for this video. I would encourage you to take a look at Randy’s mite model. One of the approaches that it illustrates is the idea of knocking the mites back significantly in the early spring thence the OAE pads to keep the mites at bay the rest of the season. I’ve used this approach last season and find it very useful.
Seeing you in the hood, I almost expected you to pull out a lightsaber like Luke Skywalker.
Now THAT would make for an interesting mite treatment.
Lol yes it would! Though I would end up being a Sith because I would force choke or electrocute everyone of em!
@@kamonreynolds Electrocution would be awesome. Watching them fry would make a cackling, sinister laugh erupt from even the nicest guy. You gotta love an evil laugh. Every good villain has to have one!
Have you used a lighter to burn a tick and they explode and jet off?! That is what I am envisioning :evil cackle:
You don’t use Vivaldi board? Your opinion about Vivaldi board because the Farm guy looks like he gives up on… I used them.
Hey Filip I have never tried a Vivaldi board. Just a double board which I like very much
You can only MANAGE effectively what you can MEASURE! Great takeaway...
Emphasizing the "not a silver bullet" but another option to use was explained well. As always thank you for the info. and update on these pads, very interesting.
-Brandon
Love the business name! Mine is B's Bees...lol
@@brandont8040 Love it! My thought process was I have a name that starts with B for a reason so its time to use it!
Here in Bulgaria i can only find 85% glycerine. Any idear if this will work the same.
Sorry martin I haven't a clue. That would be a Randy Oliver question
I did exactly what you did on 2 double deeps except I used 75g of OA and 75g food grade glycerin per hive over the brood frames in the bottom box, it was put on the 3rd week of Aug and one hive still has them on, that hive swarmed a 7+ frame swarm yesterday Feb 23, they had lots drones with them in the swarm, luckily I was there and working another nuc that outgrew its box, I quickly set and baited swarm trap under them, they were only 12 feet up on a water oak limb in my backyard, just for backup I baited the just vacated 5 frame nuc with an old frame and LG oil, they first were going into the 10 frame trap and actually doing the nasinoff march, but suddenly the swarm in tree broke up and went into the nuc and packed it out with around 2 pounds of bees bearding all over the front and top of the box, my nuc tops have 2 -1x1.5" stiffness rails on top the plywood top cover, knowing there was a chance of rain I placed another wider plywood on top, the extra bees clustered there, as soon as I had morning sun, I moved into a 10 frame deep and they all happy now
Randy Oliver's trials have shown that the bees are not removing the bulk of the oxalic acid from the sponges or pads since they do not chew this media up, so there is no need to go to higher concentrations. I accidentally made 40 gram pads last year and had excellent mite control. I will do trials this year with a lower concentration as Randy recently said he will probably do trials at lower concentrations. Richard Brickner
Thanks
How many days did you say you left them on?
Thanks
HBM
70+
And what size should you use I a 5 frame nuc
synergism.
Use more than one item in rotation.
Use more than one item at a time in your rotations.
Keep them at 1's all year long and your success is way higher. its a fact. No more 4's ... or 10's
Re the commercial treatment protocols currently.
Lots of perpetual doping going on.
Hearing of 15 to 20 times a year is now not unheard of. Not at all. Chatted with a guy yesterday and he wasnt sure if 2022 had 25 or 26.
Mind you .. that moved from 1 to 26 times over the course of 33 or 24 years the varroa has been here. and at a dosage about 25 times as strong.
Bees look good but it's more than a full time job.
50 frames, 3 bars each, 18 per bar = 2700. $30.00 X 2700= $81,000. One frame per hour, 50 frames= 50 hours. 81,000 ÷ 50= $1620 per hour.
Huh?
Yes but they take nearly 2 months to zero counts
In 2 months mine did not go to zero the mites actually grew some. Each colony averaged a little over 1.25% infestation when applied though
@@kamonreynolds I have some that never zero but most do. It's all about sq inches of surface area. I've found 70-80sq in gives better results. I primarily use it during the honey flow. Fall, Winter and spring I don't think it's as effective. But I'm in FL so it may be different for you
@@kamonreynoldsI'm really interested to see in 5 yrs what the end result is. I imagine Randy will keep figuring out how to make it more and more successful
Thanks for a great video, do you have already some results on your hives or you won't count mites on bottom boards this time ? I know some beekeepers have been experimenting with it here in Europe, and results were pretty good, better than formic acid which is often used here, cheaper as well. I will probably also try it later this year, I have just few dozens of hives and it's much cheaper and more convenient than having to buy vaporizer and that special mask so you don't breath those vapors.
which states is it legal for sponges currently?
Check out Randy Oliver's March 2022 post on the EPA statement that beekeepers have an exemption from the Experiment Use Permit if they follow the criteria in that permit. Unless your state EPA forbids it (like NY and Vermont have in their 2EE permits), you can do oxalic acid extended release trials and not have to use Api-Bioxal at the 50 gram dose that their 2EE permits require. Richard Brickner
That was good while it lasted, but I believe the Feds changed that to NO!
I watched the NZ version, a 10,000 hive operation, they use card board and the bees remove them just like they remove paper used when joining colonies.
Hi kamon I'm ger and I'm from Ireland love ur videos where do u buy the sponges from
I got my sponges from amazon. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MX46M6H?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=sl1&tag=laurelr-20&linkId=6c473abafb8909151f1a82abba46b00f&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl There are other options out there too and some are cheaper but this is what I have tried. Thanks for watching and Happy beekeeping!
I am starting my first hive and wonder if I do this at the start, would I need other treatments
Yes, you need to do mite counts and rotate treatments. I personally would not start with these pads if I had a mite problem. I would knock them down and then use the OAE pads to keep them in check later in the season, depending upon mite levels.
i think the sponges are a great idea and I can't wait to try it. I think its a twist on how they do the oxalic acid drips across the pond in some other countries which seems to work well for them. To me, it also seems to be way less disruptive to hives vs blasting them with foggers
Fogger or OAV? OAV doesn't disrupt them much at all, and it makes the mites drop like crazy. Not sure how using a fogger would affect them.
@@thilltony3362 I've had a propane varomorus turbo practically since they came out.
@@thilltony3362 I probably should have also said, the foggers work very well ... they are fast and efficient especially if you have to cover a large yard. I really don't have a problem with using the foggers except ... I wait until about midnight, shove a cloth into the entrance board to block most of it off, stick the fogger into the hive and since most of my hives are triple deep brood chambers you have to stand there and apply 12ml of solution in the dark and sometimes I forget my headlamp which then makes it fun to see the scale on the fogger which also isn't really clearly marked. I could do it during the day time, but what good is that with most of the bees out? Also, you can def hear the bees sound change inside the hive when you are applying oxalic acid using this method.
@@sharpridgehomestead So is that a propane vaporizer? If so, how do you like it? I'm interested in propane, as they seem to work well, without the need for a cord. A fogger is a different machine, basically breaking liquids down into fine droplets. They use them in agriculture. I'm curious of which you have, and what effect it has on your bees.
@@sharpridgehomestead That is pretty interesting. It seems that a fogger could leave a little more residue in the hive, almost like morning dew. Then, as it dries, it would probably become like the typical powder that OAV leaves behind. Which one do you think is more effective?
I watched that Bee Sauna video and found it pretty interesting, too. But you need some pretty specialized equipment to do that properly. It almost seems like someone could offer a service that does that. For a set fee, the Sauna van could roll up, treat a beek's hives and then roll out. If they could do it efficiently, that could work for both parties. How much would you pay to have 100% of your mites dead?
The big problem I see in that kind of service, is what happens if the queen gets rolled or killed somehow? Hmmm.... No easy solutions, are there? Maybe require that the owner clips or cages the queen the day before?
Thanks again for your great service to the Bee community!
Great video. Glad to start seeing more of them again
Kamon. thanks for the follow up. I’m posting these in to my local beekeeping group. Wondering if anyone is pushing legalization of this method at the national level?
Great Video! The Beekeeping world needs to catch up to the rest of the agricultural world in understanding that treatments for pests are a multifaceted approach. You cannot lean on just one technique/chemical/system.
Hello Kamon. Can these sponges be used during honey production? Thank you.
In most places they aren't even legal to use much less with honey supers on. I prefer not having any treatments on during a honey flow but perhaps it is safe. I know people who are testing it but I am not one of them. Thanks for the comment!
But YES they can as far as no honey contamination is concerned.
You look like a jedi. May the hive be with you. These are not the drones you're looking for.
Nicely done!
Great video Kamon. I been experimenting with towels and vapor OA. I’m washing each hive spring summer and fall, keeping notes of the outcome. I’d like to be able to do it and never use the formic. Great video young man.
Kamon thank you for all you do for the bee keepers. A question for you where have you found the best place to get OA ?? . I have heard people talking about somewhere in the past in Florida??. THANKS
Loaded question. You probably should read up on it and make your own decisions.
@@thilltony3362 I have purchased it from a lot of places over the years an years just trying to see if someone knows of a place that does not charge a arm an a leg . Do not know why that may be a loaded question.
For OE dribble or the pads, hardware store Oxalic acid for bleaching wood decks works fine. For commercial in bulk, I do not know
@@davidf4958why won’t the wood bleach work for vaporizing?
It is not approved for use and might be illegal to use in the USA. I do not vaporize and have not followed the people who do, so I do not know if it works or not. But I suspect it probably would work fine. Just my guess.
awesome video and explanation
Thank you S Smith!
I started experimenting last year with oae. Will start using June after spring treatment. Hope it holds down mite spikes in July,Aug, Sept.
How can that be illegal for a homeowner who doesn’t collect honey and has bees for pollination purposes only?
Wouldn’t worry unless you see the black helicopters circling.
Kamon I’ve been wanting to ask you a question maybe I need to ask this on a live or something but I wanna know how you keep track of all your hives and what they need. Do you write notes for every single hive? How do you go into your apiary and come out remembering what you saw and need to do? How do you keep records and notes?
Thanks Kamon, I had been wondering how effective the OA sponges were. You are providing a great service to both commercial & backyard beekeepers.
I started with 3/8 shims on top. My mating nucs I am doing 1/2”. I am thinking about making all my new lids with 3/4” shim. When using the foamies you don’t have the build up as bad, it only happens with heavy feeding or honey flow and only if you have something holding the foamy up. I am becoming a believer of the foamies.
I like them.
I like the idea and waiting for legalization in Pa. Haven't heard anything yet. My question is... Why is there a vaccine for AFB when vaccines could be made for the viruses vectored by the varroa mite? Or, a vaccine that kills varroa once they bite the exoskeleton of the bee?
I understand it takes a lot of resourced to do this, but they spent that much time on AFB when it's not as big a deal anymore
If you get the 2EE approval in Pennsylvania, you may be in the same dilemma New York and Vermont beekeepers are. Their 2EE exemption mandates that they use the 50 gram oxalic acid and 50 gram glycerin mixture and that you use Api-Bioxal. At the price of Api-Bioxal, this can make a single treatment cost close to $8.
@@R_Brickner Yep, and Oxalic acid is Oxalic acid. Yet one company manipulates the officials and is declared the only legal product on the market. Silly stuff.
Great content as always sir.
Kamon, in the video you stated none of the products you used had 90% efficacy. What would you say the average efficay was on the products you used?
Thanks for the clarifications. Really appreciate you taking time and effort to put out this content!!
Glad it was helpful and happy Beekeeping J. Hulin
Watched a video of a bee keeper in New Zealand, he used drywall joint strip paper. Soaked it in same solution and hung them between the frames. Seems like he made the like 16” long and folded them in half.
Hey Randy is a Californian . We’re not all bad .
😂
I have several friends in California! But I pick on all of my friends in an unrelenting manner. As they pick on me for our lack of teeth, alcohol addictions, and cousin weddings.
It is too bad California can't go back to being one of the best places to live. California's economy at its height was bigger than most of the world's countries and even with its problems still is quite impressive.
@@kamonreynolds
Kamon I have plans to come out one day and squat on your place. Lol.
Thanks for this explanation, well said.
Thanks for the watch and the comment Bob. It was good to see you and Suzette the other day.
GREAT INFO AS USUAL!!!!!!!im at 27 degrees today,,yesterday was 67 here in Ashtabula,Oh
I used OA/gly sponges last season in June/July. Each sponge was cut into 4 strips. Very happy with the results. Planning to apply them in early May and again in early July this season. All of my colonies were productive & healthy. Zero losses. No DWV observed.