How To Keep Your SDI Output From Blowing Up
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2021
- I've seen an epidemic of this issue on forums/Facebook groups etc, and I've boiled down the solution to one SIMPLE rule:
"REMOVE ALL SDI CABLES BEFORE PLUGGING/UNPLUGGING POWER"
If you don't do this, you are at risk of DESTROYING your SDI output on your camera which could lead to massive ramifications on set.
Cannot believe this is still a problem in 2021, mind blowing.
imagine it still being a problem in 2023.
2024
As an engineer this is so sad. It could be designed out for less than a dollar/euro/pound. You'd never get this issue with consumer grade products.
ISNT THERE A LITTLE ADAPTER that could solve this issue?
Appreciate you treating this with professionalism!!! I get my Komodo here soon and I loved how simple you made this! BEST
This issue is actually prevalent specifically with 12G SDI not 3G and HD-SDI. This is a great video as we should always follow best practices! However a few things can mitigate the issue.. 12G SDI cables by Canare and Belden that are shielded, and LEMO 2 and 3 pin power cables that have a shield as well. The issue is specifically problematic with D-TAP (unshielded) and 3G unshielded SDI cable.. At our rental facility we have brought in a full stock of shielded SDI 12G and got them in bright RED so we can differentiate visually between those and the unshielded variant. As well we are configuring all our Komodo and other 12G cameras to use Lemo power cables where possible rather then d-tap.. just an added 2c.. great vid though!
does this allow you to power down/up the RED without pulling the SDI? or should you still do that
@@ryanjosephdp While shielded 12G cables and lemo power does mitigate the issue significantly. Its a good habit to train yourself to remove SDI before removing power cables. Also to be clear, if both power and SDI cables are connected then powering up and down your Komodo will not damage the SDI port. Pulling the SDI cable is suggested to be done BEFORE removing the power cable (D-tap or Lemo). The issue is caused specifically when the SDI is connected without the power cable while a battery is installed allowing the SDI cable to conduct ground..
@@wdigivideo What about a sharkfin and hotswapping one of the batts while the other is still powering camera?
@@productionresource3333 if you are keeping the camera powered up then the SDI can stay connected, so yes this will work. Realistically powering down with SDI connected should not damage the port just to swap a battery. However it’s always best to create a routine in your workflow so SDI last on and first off regardless of the situation means that you never put yourself in the situation where you should have removed it but didn’t. Creating routines helps you avoid task loading and making mistakes
@@wdigivideo I see. So the SDI short only occurs when the circuit is broken or completed, then.
The SDI should be disconnected just at one end. Makes no sense to unplug both ends.
11 years using Canon C300, C300mkll and now C500mkll and I've never even heard of this dilemma. Been plugging, powering and unplugging SDI and power in every conceivable possibility with zero regard of these power spikes and never had any issues.
It just takes once
That’s something I didn’t know existed, but it’s definitely good to know now.
Thank you for making this. Two weeks ago I lost an SDI port on my Panasonic Varicam because I didn’t know this. It is very sad and will cost me $600 and about a week.
So sad!
Sorry to hear. Have you had any issues since, once you followed the above protocol? I just fried a port on my Varicam LT as well. I'm paranoid about it and I'm scared to try plugging everything in again. Just need some peace of mind.
@@modernhumantv mine just fried in my varicam as well!
@@wyldflowerfilmwerks6008 What do you have plugged into your Varicam? After going through this whole problem, of course, in the middle of the biggest shoot of my life, I had a few things plugged in improperly. First, follow Red's protocol for unplugging / plugging in SDI cables (It's a PITA, but is good insurance). Sorry don't know link, but just search for it. Second, don't go overboard with splitters and / or power routing. I think this second issue was more the problem for me. I had changed my power routing for a steadicam rig and ran an external battery setup in a strange way. If running external power, just keep it simple and making sure to use high quality battery plates like Wooden Camera (with built in fuses) or the main plate on the back of the camera (which has a fuse). When I talked with the tech who fixed the camera at Panasonic, he said I essentially blew a 20amp fuse inside the camera, which meant there was a huge power surge. All the main boards were fine. That was good, because it only cost $1000 ;( instead of who knows what? But it was frustrating that, if Panasonic had made the fuse user accessible it would've been like a dollar to fix. DON'T TRY AND OPEN THE CAMERA. The engineer told me repeatedly, for any future problems not to try and open it, because it's extremely complicated inside and takes about 2 hours to get to. But camera manufacturers need to let people access these kind of things, on cameras this costly, because it would save a lot of money and time in the field. Once he fixed it and I followed the above two steps, we filmed for the next 6 weeks, not a single problem with the camera. Not sure what you did specifically, but hopefully you figure it out and it never happens again.
This is the same thing with blackmagic cameras and their HDMI ports frying. Thank you for this!
Looking forward to you posting more content. I know you are probably busy with actual film as a real DP. Quick question, is there a type of filmmaker or scenario(use case) that would cause you to not recommend the Komodo?
The problem is different. Many people power their systems with a single power source and power distributor plates. When one cable loses ground connection, the power for this might run over another device, frying this device because of the extra load. That happens with batteries as well, when everything runs from one V-lock battery.
So it's not a good idea to power camera and monitor from one V - Mount battery? I plan on doing so on canon C70
@@marekmucha2300 Unfortunately not. On the other hand this affects SDI much more than HDMI, and the C70 has no SDI. Risk assessment is up to you.
@@VisualPursuit I do have SDI cross conversion monitor tho, so there is SDI out to consider.
i have the same issue with a atem constellation switcher, but it feels very unrealistic to disconnect all external devices everytime in f.e. in a studio setup. but thanks for the info. stay safe.
Hi first time red user so I did power everything on and then connected my monitor. However after my shoot was done I accidentally shut off my camera before unplugging everything . Please tell me does it cause any damage or is it more of an impact when powering up?
Good advice here. Also applies to HDMI.
In that screenshot of the doc by Arri at the beginning, doesn't it say to turn on your accessories *after* you've connected all the video and power cables?
Just got my first RED, good to know brotha thanks.
Is this an issue if you aren’t hardwiring your power to the grid? For example if I’m only powering off of a gold mount on a distribution box
Hey man, quick random question - have you had any issues with the Tilta V-mount plate at all? Saw it come off at @1:18 I'm running the CORE SWX V-Mount Plate and it has lots of play, sometimes bricking the camera when bumped. Thinking of changing to a tilta one.
Great Q! Yeah the tilta has more play than I’d like it to but I’ve moved it around and bumped it while the camera is powered up and haven’t lost connection. It’s annoying but it doesn’t seem to be a real problem for us.
Once everything is powered and SDI's are connected can the camera and or monitor be turned off and on? 2nd question if monitor battery needs to be changed the SDI cable has to come off first on both ends monitor and camera to swap the monitor battery.
Thanks for the info! What ab batteries?
thank you for the video this step is only for wall plug or changing batrry too ?
They say you should use these steps for any power source
Very cool stickers. Mind to tell where did you order them?
Does it also apply when working with batteries. NPF on SmallHD and BP on Komodo?
As far as I can tell, it’s only a problem with AC power so you *should* be fine. But for us, it’s better to just always follow the protocol, even with batteries
Great information! I assume this shouldn't be a procedure if hot-swapping the canon BP's?
No. It Doesn’t seem to be an issue with batteries.
Interesting video. So does the SGI cable go out all of a sudden, or does it flicker on and off. Last night on set, my monitor was going out intermittently whenever I bumped the cable. I think this might be a different issue, but I changed the cable (thin 12G SDI) and it still seemed to be a little wonky. But it was fine once I moved from gimble to tripod and wasnt knocking the cable so much.
I'm going to try rn w/ another thicker 12G cable I have. Maybe it's the cable not my SGI port. Fingers crossed.
Feels like a cable issue. The whole sdi jack on camera gets fried when this issue occurs.
@@TheObsessiveDP You're right, I changed to a different cable and it's working fine. Now to find a right angle 12G SGI slim cable =D
so you need to turn on the camera befor sdi or just connect the power and you dont have to turn on the camera to connect the sdi
??
You can use a SDI galvanic isolator. They sell ones rated for 12G for around $500 cheap insurance.
L4KGI-01 - Overview
LEN Limited
Protects your Operators and Equipment from shock damage during installation...Eliminates interference during operation!
The LEN galvanic isolators use broadband high-pass filters to provide isolation of DC currents between two pieces of equipment, whilst permitting the full bandwidth of the 4K SDI signal to pass, so avoiding problems of signal distortion and operator shocks caused by a voltage difference. This method far out-performs broadband transformers for SDI signals. Both the signal and the ground paths between equipment are isolated, there is no distortion of the signal.
Another problem with coaxial cable use, that is solved by the LEN 4K Isolator, is in applications such as Outside Broadcast, where large voltages can build up on the outer cable shield due to different ground potentials at each end of the cable run, producing a spark as the cable is connected to its destination connector. This is particularly a problem in drier parts of the world.
The LEN 4K SDI Video Galvanic Isolator is offered in two options. Option one is an in-line 'barrel', suitable for portable applications, and option two has a mounting flange at one end to facilitate rack-panel mounting, for applications such as tailboard feedthrough.
Our Engineers at LEN have called on their long experience working with ultra-high frequency filter design for the Military to produce a product that is compliant to the SMPTE 6G and 12G specifications and fully tested on high end Vector Network Analyzers. We understand what is needed to design good product at such very high frequencies.
Operation over coax at 4K / 12G has been awaiting the release of companion products to the LEN 4K Isolators, such as 12G rated BNC connectors and coaxial cable. These are now reaching the marketplace.
@@gethinevans8596 Hi Gethin, I just purchased two of the LEN 3G barrel isolators. So these will not allow SDI ports to blow, regardless of how things are plugged in? I just recently had a Varicam LT SDI port blow and I'm scared to plug anything in at this point, just want to be careful. Thanks
I have a mantra
'cable in when power on'
'Cable out when power on'
Rule Does not apply when not powered by mains ac supply.
Hello guy, good demonstration thank a lot. juste a question please do we have the same process or issue with hdmi ( remove all hdmi cablesbefore plugging and unpluggin power)?
Yes
@@CaravanCamera thanks
Is this also the case with HDMI?
Should the camera be On or just powered with the camera Off?
Thanks for this vital information!
amazing info, thank you for this
Which sdi do you use?
What about when turning the camera on/off?
I just received my Komodo and am running a Small HD 702 powered by the Canon LP batteries on the monitor. Do I need to be as worried about power surges around my SDI cable if the monitor has its own power source outside of the camera still? I know the super safe method is always removing the SDI, but just curious
Yes.
So should I turn on the camera before or after I plug in the Sdi cable?
I personally am not sure if it matters. What matters most is actually plugging in or unplugging the AC power cable.
You can leave the camera on if you have already powered off the device it is connected to (example: external monitor). Hot plugging SDI (or HDMI) between two running devices runs the risk of a short, especially if the BNC cable you are using is not high quality and shielded.
is this relevant if you are using batteries?
Great tip! Thanks!
damn. now i'm nervous to even touch the camera lol great vid
I’ve had 2 SmallHD cine5 break in their first use. 2 different cameras, once running from dtap once from Sony batteries. Followed protocol but SDI out stopped working. It’s a joke
RED should fix this with breaker or fuse. That's quite a design flaw for such an expensive system.
Yup! Some companies have made some cables that fix the issue.
@@TheObsessiveDP can you link us the cables with that feature? Thank you!
@@TheObsessiveDP What are these cables?
hello with my red komodo today without doing it on purpose I forgot to unplug my sdi cable and I turned off my red and after I turned off my monitor I don't know if I burned my sdi port???
You’re probably fine. Just remember to follow protocol next time!
So lets assume you are using a larger V lock battery with the same tilta plate you have. You can not access the SDI port after the battery is on the camera. How would you approach that situation
We’ve used a shark fin before. It only allows for one battery to be used but it clears the ports on the bottom.
Just unplug the BNC from the monitor. You can leave the other end connected to the camera.
CAMVATE 12G-SDI BNC Protector Current Isolation Cable ???
anybody know if it's the same for HDMI's?
What if you’re running on battery only? Do you have to remove SDI cables before switching batteries?
Yes.
So every time you replace the battery on set, you have to remove SDI’s? That seems like a design flaw to me.
I agree. It seems like there should be a hardware fix.
@@TheObsessiveDP Let's say your not using V-Mount but hotswapping your BP Batterys.. Then you should be safe without disconnecting SDI cables right? Because you always have a power source? Or is it still risky?
@@Mats_Johnsen great question!!! hopefully someone will respond.
@@Mats_Johnsen did u find out the answer?
"Power" means when the camera & monitor are switched on or also when they're switched off but the batteries are plugged in?
My question is, can I turn on/off my camera and monitor while the SDI cable is connected? Should it be fine as long as I'm not changing batteries?
Turning your camera / monitor on and off, after you've plugged everything in (in the correct order of course), you have established a common ground and you shouldn't have any problem doing that. It's when you plug power cables in and the pins don't connect in the correct order and that then sends power through the SDI cable and completes the circuit. Unfortunately, it's sending the power into a sensitive low voltage SDI chip, which is why it gets fried.
Does this happen when connecting a battery or only AC power?
They say it only happens with AC. But I would go the extra mile!
It definitely does not happen when you use batteries.
@@joshhill9754 It can definitely happen with batteries.
Does this also apply if you are switching the power on/off to the monitor? Like pressing the power button. That would be a serious time sink.
better not to get confused and use one system only XD
Hi...
Can you pls send me the link of v mount battery adapter you used and the battery? Looks you built no power hungry set up....
Pls respond
What about a fixed installation?? or TV studio ... you must to disconect every sdi every morning? ... I dont think so....
if you are replugging in AC plug = YES. if not, you should be golden,
Actually what you are doing, tapping the SDI connector with your finger like that is also a risk, as it gets burned due to static electrition as well.
All while getting fat and dust inside that connector :)
this procedure is done only with the connection to the electricity network or also with the use of vlock batteries?
As far as I know, the concern is with AC power only. But why not be safe and do it with batteries as well?
This applies to batteries as well. You can even blow an SDI port by using the same battery to power the camera and a seperate monitor via d-tap.
@@badGamr Yeah, I blew my Varicam LT port with a Gold Mount battery and P-Tap running to Atomos monitor and camera, for a steadicam rig. So, just to confirm, if I follow the power first SDI second rule, I should avoid this problem? Thanks
@@modernhumantv Running separate power to the monitor and camera is the solution.
@@badGamr I've heard just the opposite. Why two power sources instead of one? The idea is to get the monitor and camera on a common ground, before connecting SDI. With multiple battery sources it seems like following the power procedure would be much more tedious and difficult to follow. Also, most professional setups utilize one power supply, that's why Alexas and Reds have power outputs.
Can you leave the sdi cable plugged into the display only?
Yes. You only need to disconnect one end.
Thank You
I didn't get when you turn on the camera? I thought it was about NOT plugging or unplugging SDI when the monitor or the camera are on, but first connect SDI and then turn the camera and the monitor on
Nooo! Turn the camera on or off WITHOUT SDI attached. DO NOT attach SDI first
@@TheObsessiveDP So every time I switch my camera ON or OFF to save on battery , I have to remove the cable? That seems like a huge time sink.
@@funnymononot when you turn it on or off, only when you attach/remove a battery or power cable.
Okay, help a brother out.....if I've got a monitor and I'm powering the monitor with it's own Sony NPF battery.....and I'm powering my Komodo with a battery on the back........I would turn on my monitor first, connect the sdi to it.....turn on the camera, then connect the sdi to the camera ............. when turning off the camera ( to change battery on monitor etc...)...........just disconnect the sdi from camera first? Right? I really don't want to brick a $6000 camera. (no sdi = a brick)
Is it a problem with Red Helium? After watching this video, I just use HDMI.
As far as I understand it. It's a problem with all cameras, but the 12g ports are more susceptible to damage.
Blackmagic cameras have this same issue with HDMI cables. I would expand this to say Remove all video cables before adding or taking away power.
Good call
Incorrect. All cables should be connected first and then the power switched on, and switched off before removing cables. Use a V-mount battery plate with an on/off switch, or if using say an NP-F battery adapter, do not attach battery until everything is plugged in. Connecting anything while the power is on will very likely guarantee a burned out HDMI port. SDI works differently and even ARRI put out a bulletin saying connect the power cables first, then the SDI and then turn on power. Quote:
'To prevent this damage to the SDI outputs, ALWAYS make sure to plug in the power cable first and THEN
connect the BNC cable. Once power and BNC cables are connected, it is OK to power the camera or
accessory on or off. Also, ALWAYS make sure to disconnect the BNC cable first and THEN disconnect the
power cable. '
@@AustralianImage dammit. This is pretty much the exact opposite of what he’s saying in the video. Your description is how I have understood it as well. I have seen many discussions, specifically with Blackmagic cameras, about this issue. So regardless of whether it’s HDMI or SDI, we connect everything first and then power everything on? I’ve powered my camera on and off with and without accessories a million times. And at some point I know I have missed the steps up. Maybe I got lucky. But I want to do it right. As of late, I have been powering my monitor off an NPF attached to my rig, and my camera powered by V lock battery-on a plate that has an on/off switch.
Also, what if there is no on/off switch on the battery/plate?
And what about the little things, like powering the camera down between set ups and whatnot? We are not expected to disconnect everything every time we turn the camera off, correct? Because I don’t do that. This is all pretty confusing to be honest.
@@j.oakley9588 What happens is that many people equate SDI requirements with HDMI requirements. As I've noted before, ARRI issued a bulletin on how to avoid damaging SDI (BNC) connectors and that process is quite specific because of the nature of SDI. In theory, you can plug and unplug HDMI cables as you would USB cables, but there's always the risk, so with cameras and monitors I always power off before connecting/disconnecting cables. If a battery plate has no on/off switch, just make certain all the devices are off and remove the battery first.
@@AustralianImage copy that. Same too with SDI and HDMI connections I assume? Like if I hooked an evf into my monitor via SDI, but my monitor is receiving the camera’s signal via HDMI m. There’s no SDI on my camera but I use a portkeys BM5 which has an SDI out.
this guy saved my ass
Thank you so much
Should the monitor and Komodo be off before I remove the SDI?
I heard from another youtuber to NOT turn off the Komodo but remove SDI cables first. Can you clarify?
Yes. Remove sdi cables before doing anything with power - plugging in or unplugging.
Good stuff
Sorry newbie so here is a newbie question--can you turn off the monitor , then remove the sdi and then the power cable? Same plug the power , then turn on the monitor and then connect the sdi
You nailed it!
Seems odd. Not one rental house I've ever used has ever had instructions for protocols on this issue. You would think their cameras would be getting bricked weekly if this were the case.
yeah same here
That seems like a huge pain. I would way rather use HDMI because I wouldn’t have to do any of that
lol!!! i never had a blow out like that ... is it a red issue?
It’s and issue with All cameras as far as I know. I think 12g helps it to be a bigger issue
All you gotta do is just plug a sdi cord into the monitor and camera and use 95 canon batteries and or v mount why plug in the camera to the electricity wall anyway that’s no different then plugging a laptop into a car a/c plug outlet that takes outlets you’ll burn it cause of the power of the Volts
Thank's👌
This applies to HDMi also…. Any video “signal” cable really.
No, not really. Only 12G SDI.
@@robertruffo2134 um no it doesn’t ..
@@MAD_CHILLER HDMI ports fail for other reasons. They don't like being connected "hot". That's actually what burns them. Other SDI are very unlikely to have this problem, which is why you almost never heard about this issue until a popular cam with 12G SDI was released..
@@robertruffo2134the ground looping issue affects hdmi just as much as anything .
It comes down to bad practices .
In all things it’s should be be .
Connect power first. Connect signal.. power on and shoot..
Reverse for tear down.
It’s that simple.
I want camera second hand bro
This only applies to 6G/12G SDI, as an aside.
And 3G SDI? like the alphatron EVF 035-W?
@@mikeprins2946 it’s much less common on 3G-SDI. It can happen but not very often
im guessing you turn on every equipment before you connect sdi
10 downvotes from SDI port manufacturers :"D
Golden
I’ve owned Komodo for around 9 months now, and haven’t had any issues really. With that being said I just want to implement this safety as part of my workflow. I used to follow the protocol that Phil Holland put out for Red. So ideally would you recommend having both camera, monitor, and accessories such as Red Control, FIZ units etc., powered before inserting the BNC cable? Or just make sure everything has power flowing such as cam, monitor, FIZ, Teradek etc., whether on/off?
I hope everyone is having a safe and amazing day! 😃💙 #NotificationSquad
This never happens with the LF
6 months since the last video :(
working on it! hold tight!
Last in, first out
He said 1 lac time Remove SDI
"This happens when one pin hits the outlet before the other one" So....batteries are fine. Gotcha.
Love the name!
They aren’t though. There’s a whole bunch of complaints about black magic pocket cinema cameras having the exact same issue on the hdmi port burning out. Most people thought it came from powering everything off the same battery, but it seems like even using separate power sources can cause the burn out eventually unless you follow proper plugging/unplugging procedure.
Let's pretend (sic) this video was two minutes shorter without all the pretending.
1 power→SDI→OPEN cam 2 Shutdown All → SDI → Remove power , SDI is the step2 allways
Glad I only have 3g sdi
Omg early and first
just power with a battery first
Save yourself some time.
Power then SDI
SDI then power.
I’m exhausted watching this…
Holy fuck, 100 seconds of info in a 5 minute video. Good info though.
Appreciate the review
Call things what they are man, lol. Put it here put it there, connect that and this. Why can't you be more specific? also, not everyone has the same accessories as you.
Help me my man. Do you have a simpler way of saying “ unplug SDI before plugging or unplugging power” ???
Shame on you red
Please just come to the point without the "jokes"
What you said confuses us. Please talk less and operate more. We want to see the correct operation. As long as you don't speak.
Get to the point
This goes to show how crappy a RED Komodo is. I’ve used tons of different Alexa bodies in my career and with Teradeks and never done this and nothing has ever happened.
www.arri.com/resource/blob/194752/26e7a4ca07e7a8f0ce038b23109b216c/download-technical-information-data.pdf
Unfortunately this problem applies to all cameras with SDI outputs.
Please note, its a very common issue with 12G sdi. 3G sdi is more robust but wouldn't rule them out as I've also broken a 3g sdi once but several 12G sdi
Same to me nothing happened
@@TheObsessiveDP Thanks for the Arri link. Does Red have the same type of doc? I own a Red Scarlet-W with RED DSMC2 V-Lock I/O Expander and have never had problems with the SDI output, but I primarily run off of bricks. Would this type of issue only effect the I/O expander and not the camera brain?