The College Scam
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
- A new book makes The Case AGAINST Education. Who would argue against education?
Economics professor Bryan Caplan. He tells John Stossel that "what we need to do is to go back to a world where college is not so accessible."
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That's because most people don't learn much in college. Studies find that a third of people haven't learnt anything detectable after four years in college.
Yet government pours about $80 billion a year into college subsidies.
"Taxpayers ought to know that they're getting ripped off," Caplan tells John Stossel.
He says taxpayer money mostly helps more people signal their ability to conform to college expectations.
When people get fancier degrees, says Caplan "their income generally goes up ... but the reason ... is not really that college is pouring tons of job skills into you. The reason is that it's impressive."
Lots of signaling, he points out, is bad for society.
"Imagine that you were at a concert, everyone's sitting down and you want to see better," Caplan says. "What can you do? Well, you can stand up, and of course then you'll see better. Now, it does not follow though that if everyone stands up, everyone sees better."
As more people get degrees, more employers demand that "signal."
Employers now require degrees for "jobs where it used to be crazy to think they would need a college degree," like being a high-end waiter, says Caplan.
Stossel pushes back: Surely college is also about learning.
Caplan responds that if students wanted to learn they can just walk on to a campus and attend class. Caplan says professors are happy to let the student attend. But few students do that.
"In people's bones they realize that what really counts is that diploma," Caplan says.
Caplan does think college is great for a few people like him - tenured professors. He can never be fired, gets paid well, and only has to teach classes for five hours a week.
"That's a scam," Stossel responds, "we're paying so much money for people like you to teach five hours."
"Yeah. Well, I'm a whistleblower," Caplan quips.
Caplan says we should stop subsidizing the scam: "the wisest solution ... would be if government just got out."
Stossel agrees: separate school and state.
I had to take a course in art appreciation to get a biology degree.
The overlap is practically non-existent.
Tucson Jim morals are not good or bad. A moral person in the US will behave differently than a moral person in India. Also one may view the other as immoral simply because they believe their individual morals are better than others.
But I do thank you for showing just how arrogantly delusional you are.
Tucson Jim
"Art is about the creative expression of morals."
No, it's about the most useless degree there is.
No nudes in the art appreciation class ?
@Tucson Jim: I'd wager your line-of-thinking led to items like the National Endowment for the Arts, a complete waste of taxpayer money.
Too bad the art majors didn't learn to appreciate advanced calculus like you probably did in biology.
College could be cut down to 3 years, maybe even 2. There are a lot of wasted classes.
they really need to cut down on gradeschool too. So much wasted time talking about the fairytales of Christopher Columbus. By the time we get to college, most of us just want to party and forget about all that wasted time.
I think that they could earn lots of more money that way. Same price but the classes are more efficient. Teachers don't have to work their asses off and students can gtfo college faster and get to work.
When I got my Accounting Degree, I could not believe how much I learned in the last two years of college than the first two years. I received some accounting knowledge and other skills, but when you start the last two years of college, you are heavily into your degree program like one never would expect.
@Muddobber McCrablice not all teachers though. I went to a privately owned gymnasium (for free) and it was the best education I have ever gotten. I learned so much and the teachers were beloved and just chilled out.
Omg so true lol “prerequisites”…. I use my GI Bill so I just get more money but of course tax payers have to pay more. I think two years is good, your junior and senior classes.
If my kids want to be doctors or engineers, I will send them to college. If they want to be plumbers or electricians, I will send them to technical school. I think it's my job as a parent to help my kids out, but not to give them a blank check to go swim and climb rock walls and get a 4-5 year degree in Social Justice nonsense.
Canny sound logic
The issue stems from society (teachers, TV and movies) saying go and figure it out later.
I'll laugh if I found out your kids, whom you sent to college, spent most of their time drinking and smoking weed. And they cheated their way through tests.
@Canny. AMEN!!
Troll post. Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY don't love my kids. Stupid.....
What’s most frustrating is how snail paced it is. I could have learned what I needed to know in 6 months and I can’t believe I was tricked into dragging it out for 4 years…
Same. In my four years, I took maybe five classes that were of any benefit.
Yeah I feel like it’s meant to take the average idiot’s money over those 4 years instead of teaching them valuable skills they could learn in at most a year.
"It would be good if government got out of a lot of things." True dat, true dat.
One of the best lines in the video!
People don't realize how bad this college thing is. This is seriously ruining a lot of people
I agree. I'm a college student right now and I'm always suffering from anxiety and depression. I just want school to not exist.
well that's a easy fix. you can do that in minutes @@Nevox34
My parents don't give a shit. I've let them know I couldn't care less about this school stuff and it is not doing anything for me. They are responsible for my mental health going bad
The IT industry figured this out a while ago. Typical interviews are technical. Meaning they give real world problems and if you aren't competent you don't get the job. Degree or no degree.
I agree with you to a point, most of the IT folks in our healthcare business often get paid equal or more than our clinical counterparts, and the clinical folks often has masters and doctorates. But if one in IT wishes to move up in the world to say IT Director or CIO, it is more of a people job than a technical job and a degree is often required to move into a leadership role. Of course if you don't mind staying behind the scenes and doing straight coding for the rest of your life, then no degree required... but you could eventually become obsolete if you don't grow.
Yeah, but you need that degree to get past HR to get to the interview.
I do pre-screening of job applications for the IT positions where I work. I’d call them on the phone talk for about 3 minutes, let them talk for about 5 minutes why they want to work for use, then I have 6 technical questions I ask. The first few are really easy, one does not even have a right answer - it is just to see if they can set priorities on their own. If you get 5 questions right you get a follow up interview.
@@malcorub, ah the great trap / lie that everyone wants to climb the corporate ladder. I’m in IT, have been for 30 years, I’ve been offered a management position at least 8 times, and I say no every time. Why, you ask, because I’ve watched that middle management get laid off when things get tight, but the people that put fingers to keyboards and produce something stay. When I tell the director of Engineering how long it will take, they believe me, when I disagree with management I usually win, because I have 30 years of experience, when I say it will take 4 days to build those servers, it really does take 4 days. Management learned that I don’t lie nor pad my numbers (hours needed or budget).
As for staying current I’ve learned a new operating system every other year. I’m willing to help anyone and get the job done. I have managers asking if I can support their Projects, because they know I’m dependable. Did not learn that from college but my parents and working low paying jobs, the harder I worked the more hours I got.
@@wvanyar1801 I am studying bachelor in IT (not in the US btw) and so far I am in my third year and found that I am not learning much, but in my country a dgree is what employers look for, unless you got a long experience and/or you are will know in the field.
Can you guide to where I can study more things that can help me online, like where do you leaan about operating systems and how do you become professional in them, I have studied about using Linux but I am no where near being a pro at it, I can not go to an employer and say I can be a Linux admin cause I can't
I studied business and got a 4-year degree. Have been in the work force for 6 years. I think I have used less than 5% of what I learned in college in all of my jobs. I could have learned everything I needed in one semester.
I hear ya, but one does not necessarily know WHICH 5% they will use. I was a Chemical Engineering student, btw.
I was IT student and college made me take all the Intro classes from different field when I damn well chose my major and knew I wanted to go into IT. I only took less than 50% of the classes related to IT.
Where I work, we tend to not hire those with a degree. Because we don't want to have to re-teach how things work. It's easier to pull someone off the street
I’m in the same boat
College was turned into a means to grow government and it worked.
kmg501 It was ALWAYS a means to grow government, that's why the state accredits schools; rather than just treating them like ordinary businesses.
Good point Tom.
kmg501 Exactly, for Communists like Robert Riech couldn't do better
And another way to subjugate the masses to accept indoctrination and indebtedness. Many students today are enslaved to debt which only death can free them from its grasp.
Student loan debt is absolutely diabolical. I should try to find out who the original architect of government tuition (which should be patently illegal with nearly everything else the horrible govt does).
College is first and foremost, a money machine not unlike Wal-Mart and General Motors. Not everyone should go to college.
Once upon a time, when the country was prosperous and wealthy, when a small portion of the population could produce everything everyone needed, "make-work" jobs were created to gainfully employ everyone else. Defense jobs building weapons never to be used, "higher" education jobs, research jobs, government bureaucracy jobs, "health" care jobs, recreation industry, etc etc. Now we are to the point where all these valueless jobs have so crippled the economy that the nation is economically uncompetitive and we've resorted to pumping money from thin air into the economy to keep the ball rolling. Oh how will it all end and we return to reality?
Trade school is more important
yes!
I wish I went that route but when I was in high school, they really didn't bring up trade school at all. They just pushed college down our throat.
Same, college was the only way to go apparently. I wish I did some sort of trade instead.
Tucson Jim Not free. Somebody is always paying for it.
Trades are understaffed. If you graduate from trade school, you'll likely never be without a job, especially if you're good at what you do. And you'll get great pay the more hours of experience you get, which stacks up fast over your first few years of work. Engineering is a bit over saturated unless you major in a specific, less common field of engineering, and yes that can net you much more money. But you gotta study and ensure that it's the field you want to go into because of the required time commitment.
I've even heard of students taking trade courses in high school and starting at $40k a year as soon as they graduate.
What?!?
A Masters in Women's Studies won't guarantee me a 7 figure salary? WTF!! Who knew?
ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF INEQUALITY!
/sarcasm
I quit college with a 3.6 GPA, I'm making $18.50 an hour for 4 10 hour shifts a week. I get full health and dental, 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks sickleave. Not bad for a "drop out." Meanwhile one of my friends who mocked me for quitting is busy putting her psychology masters to work in a nail salon.
What's your occupation?
Loophole literally is unethical. The biggest fraud university that abuses F1 and gives out fake admits is the University of Central Missouri. All the people there are mostly from the Hyderabad, Telangana and Andhra part of India
hmm 3.6, not great not terrible
@@Israel_Girmay Probably deputy chief engineer for the Chernobyl nuclear power plant
That aged like milk.
I have used maybe 2% of what I learned in college. The other 98% I forgot a long time ago.
John Stossel is one of my heroes. I've been watching him for over 30 years.
he is on point a lot but sometimes he comes off to far from the middle for me,.
Greg Lee
That maybe true, but I don't think that him or his experts always know what they're talking about.
person 1: "i got a degree in social justice"
person 2: "oh yeah what job can you get with that?"
person 1: "well... i can teach a social justice class"
person 2: "..."
A job is a job
SJ? Lol
You can use it to be an activist while you "peacefully protest" problems you manifest with your activism.
When I was a teacher, I told my intellectually-gifted students to study business or STEM, and not to waste their time on anything else. In the years since, many have contacted me to thank me for turning them off useless degrees.
Wise man
Or mechanics in Missouri we have trade schools for mechanics
We need More Pple Like you Man Honestly!
As someone who did a business undergrad and then STEM postgrad, please do not tell them to study business. It's a waste of time. Can be learned online or with work experience but is not worth undergrad tuition
@@robbiedeegan3121 my classes are usually an old dude reading a PowerPoint presentation for 3 hours and I learn little to nothing. I could learn that in a 10 min RUclips video. I only continue because of the security that a diploma brings, I also don't se my self working a normal 9-5 job, I would bo crazy
End Student Loans = Cost of college drops IMMEDIATELY Great idea!
not really, the tax payer will have to foot the bill.
The diversity counselor still needs the 200K a year pay.
Neo VeNoM I think he means allow no more loans to be given therefore you can’t really afford it so less will go and they will drop their prices.
recordrabbit
No, it will stay the same. They have no incentive to lower the cost. It’s a business after all
@Wes Pepple let's do both and see how long these colleges stay open.
@@CorporateShill But I think the video is saying if people are unable to afford college then they will have to lower tuition prices if they want to keep students coming.
A problem even with technical degrees or engineering is that you have to take "core" classes. One I had to take was ethics. Really? Ethics from a school that also sells Gender Studies courses? I could have been out of there in two years instead of 4. Where is the ethics in that?
Andrew Craner They got to bill you for two more years
I would have to disagree on the ethics point. I thought it was useless before I took it but it was surprisingly valuable in regards to engineering. There are a ton of other liberal arts classes that I had to take which were pretty useless though, at least in regards to engineering.
Hawksm278 - I'm not saying ethics per se is useless. It is very valuable. But I think it should be ingrained long before hitting an institution of higher learning. And as we are seeing, colleges don't seem to be the ones to teach it.
Tuscon Jim - I am a horrible person. So are you. That doesn't mean that ethics don't exist, or shouldn't be something to strive for. We are all hypocrites. Welcome to the party! Just out of curiosity, what's your point? Are you saying that no one can know anything about ethics? Or do you suppose you are given divine benevolence superior to others, and I'm a piece of crap based on my name or avatar?
Andrew Craner - Good for you !! I can't see anything positive in his messages. Seems bitter 'know it all'. A course on English would help him out of this mania. He went to the number 1 engineering college so you cannot discuss anything with him. He knows more than you and I combined.
I wasted 4 years in college and another 2 in grad school, trying to become a park ranger. Got my MS in Natural Resource Management, my BA is in Anthropology/Archaeology (lots of parks are home to historic areas, think Gettysburg National Battlefield its a National Park.) Only to find that these jobs got reserved for veterans, and the preferred hiring status for those jobs is so strong my education and experience meant nothing (worked seasonal/temp with county/state parks departments jobs since age 15).
I remember being told after applying, if you aren't a vet you pretty much wont get hired and the only way was if a vet didn't apply.
I would've been better off going into the army, than going to college, while when I was in high-school I was highly discouraged from a military career, even when I wanted to (ROTC seemed like a great deal to me). Now Im stick with debt, had to sell cars for awhile to survive, and finally got a meaningless office job in compliance. College is a scam.
what they don't tell you is that after you commission you have lifetime obligation to your appointment as an officer even after your contract is over
College is only useful if absolutely necessary for the specific job you want. I think learning a trade is more valuable for more people than college is today.
Lars Dexter Engvik It can be. Depends on the person though. Like I said in another thread, IF the tech school in question is IT related I probably could have handled it, but otherwise I am so NOT the person you want to rely on if something broke and needs fixing. My aptitudes and skills in those areas are pretty shit.
The American Dream: A) Buy a house, B) Buy a car, C) Get a University degree.
They all share something in common; inquiring a loan, that means you borrow from the banks.
Firstly, "inquiring" is the wrong verb. Incurring, maybe.
Also, you don't need a loan for any of those things, if you have good saving habits. I took the bus or biked to work for two years to save enough to buy a car. I'm now saving to buy a house in cash. Scholarships, Pell and NYS TAP grants paid for college.
@@mirzaahmed6589 very true, I never took one out. But for those who are paying it down on the regular their savings could not be so easily established. Sadly, most of them won't plan like we do.
The American dream should be a) build a house according to your own dream, while being offered a course in carpentry b) repair an old car while being offered a course in mechanics. c) write an original book on any subject to be liked by real enjoyers. Such an American dreamer would perform excellently in any job.
@@mirzaahmed6589 and you live with your parents? I mean, you're not speaking realistically. Sure, buy a used car with cash as thats smart. But a hone is a different thing and as we already established, college is a racket. The same people pushing this agenda are getting ready to try taking your cash away for your own good
ACQUIRING is the word.
It would be even better if government got out of everything.
Liberty Surveillance that is the real problem
Liberty Surveillance Well, almost everything..
Go for it. I'm in MA. Look up the name and you can get the address. I have cameras, alarms, Doberman Pinchers, and uhhhh, yea a bunch of guns. Come for a visit. You will be welcome but may not make it for tea if you show any aggression. The dogs can read that from about 100'. The tail signals your state of mind.
Liberty Surveillance What do you think this is, a democracy?
@Tucson Jim: I'm not an anarchist, I'm more of a govt "night watchmen" guy (military, courts), but anarchy doesn't mean "no rules", it means "no rulers." Look up natural law (Mises), I think you're jumping to conclusions.
I was graduated with a B.A degree in English and philosophy . This did not get me a better job.
I agree! I learned more about my particular career field on the job than I did in college.
Does it make you feel better to insult random people on the Internet?
I spent five years in college and didn't learn anything I couldn't have learned by skimming through some books on my own. The most valuable education I got was from the first couple years of employment. I work in IT, and can literally take anyone with an average IQ who has never touched a computer in their life and teach them to do my job in a couple weeks.
Much of what is learned in school can be learned online without the need for physical text books. Technology can make schools obsolete but you can be sure that the old system will fight it all the way.
True
At a certain point we need a PhD in engineering thermodynamics to actually go to the jet propulsion laboratory and figure out the newest latest greatest engine that the skunk works is needing asap and it don't work quite right.
That guy lives in an office in the mechanical engineering building at the university of illinois. His name is Herman.
First job after college they told me forget what they taught you in school.
Same thing they tell you when you hit the streets after graduating the police academy.
While my first job did not tell me that, I used about maybe a year and a half of my engineering classes. If I took only the classes I used at my job I would have been done in 2 years, sounds a lot like a certification process. What did I need freshman chemistry for when I’m an EE major, or what added up to an entire semester of social studies classes?
@@wvanyar1801 college comp sci can't keep up with private
This is totally like my experience. I actually interviewed at a college and was told not waste my time by a professor who was salty at the staff.
I am now a salaried full stack developer. No college degree, just certifications. Saved a lot of money.
what certs? just curious.
Many jobs REQUIRE a college degree, along with a continuing education to renew their respective required licences. Teachers, engineers, doctors, lawyers and accountants just to name a few. However, traditional 4 year college is not for everyone. Judge Smails had it right when he said "the world needs ditch diggers too."
you can bring ditch diggers from mexico if you want.
I've known waitresses with BS degrees in LAW.. I've met strippers who went to medical school.. I've met homeless people with degrees and I've met Multi-Million $ CEO's who never spent one day in college. I think who you are determines your outcome... not what others try to make you be.
You had me at "strippers". I want to know more.
My brother has a friend who is homeless yet he has a Doctorate in Economics from Cornell.
I’ve come to this same realization recently. Reality is somewhat of a manifestation between choice and circumstance. When you’re young, you can only make decisions based on what you know at the time. Over the years, you grow in wisdom, perception, and awareness. Ideally, you come to a realization that the only person who dictates your fate is you.
You are who you choose to be.
5:04 “can’t be fired for any reason” and that’s one of the major problems with the declining school system
If you don't come out of college with a skill you can sell. then you've wasted your time and money.
I was watching Oprah or Maury or Phil one of those shows once while I was waiting for my car to be fixed. There were a bunch of women on stage bellyaching about how unfair the world is because they finished college and still can't find work. Then one woman proudly said her degree was in English Literature. I said to myself, "What did you think you were going to do with that?"
I love education - in fact, I finished 11 years of college. But I left there with enough skills in the medical field that I have absolutely no problem finding places to hire me. (That is, I have skills I can sell.) But there are loads of graduates with degrees in subjects that might have been of interest to them - Literature, art history, black history, etc - but there's little or no market for people with that education. My point is, it's fine to learn whatever interests you (I also studied linguistics and geology because they interest me) but in addition, you better learn something of commercial value or you'll be folding sweaters at The Gap for the rest of your life and be bitter about it.
Without the trades, these institutions wouldn't have any of these buildings to work out of.
Education is paramount, but college is not.... Our education system needs to give our kids more option.
Tech, trade schools and apprenticeships should be treated with equal importance. The blue collar jobs shouldn't be looked down upon in our public schools. They should be presented as options...
This is the best route for our country, our economy and our people.
I feel like when I got out of high school, It was looked down upon to not go to college. Now I’m in my last year, 30K in debt and all of a sudden it’s becoming acceptable and common knowledge that college is a scam. Wow, thanks for the late memo, society. Could have told me this before I took out the loans.
Kids do learn a skill in college;
How to be an SJW
You sound like an SJW.
Actually, yes... all of them are taught to be "Social Justice Warriors" in REQUIRED classes, and (unfortunately) a significant enough majority embrace this ideology. Here is a published plan from UNLV, my University, for a BA in computer science.
www.unlv.edu/sites/default/files/degrees/plans_of_study/2018-19-4yrPlan-BA-ComputerScience.pdf
Seriously... can you explain why I should take African American Studies, Latin Studies, Marriage and Family Therapy, or Women's Studies to fulfill ANY requirement as a Computer Scientist? So please don't sling around the insults when someone make a simple comment. If you disagree, please do so in a civil manner, or not at all; otherwise, you simply prove their point sounding angry & embittered.
I wouldn’t call being an SJW a skill. It’s an insult to people who actually have skills
coc0s ; your reaction shows me that I’m spot on.
Thank you.
Generally true that most become SJW. His point is well-taken.
10% of what we learn in school are useful skills and knowledge that we want/need to learn for a job. 90% is just useless things that we try to memorize just for the credentials.
I put in five years in college. The only thing I learned that turned out to be useful was in aircraft mechanic school, which isn't even "real" college in a lot of people's minds. Eventually I turned those skills into a 6-figure income manufacturing my own inventions, no degree necessary. If you want to make money, simply create value.
Hs Hs then even your not "real" school helped you. The beauty of getting the right kind of education. The problem is our peers are avoiding education all together and have no job skills or knowledge because they don't major in stem or go to a trade school and try to just get company loyalty through longevity. It doesn't work, you will cap out quickly without a degree.
Hs Hs I hear you brother. I got a ba in biz mgt. I own my own business now. They only classes that help where marketing and learning about Microsoft office.
Save a ton of monry and time and just go to a community collage and take 4 or 5 courses and your set.
Bart Simpson are there those who own their own business doing as well as you without the ba? Perhaps your degree was more helpful than you realize.
Tia Moore It was the socialization i recived was very useful in life. Its just disharting see the massive debt the young have and no hope for a good job.
Bart Simpson that didn't address my question
I have a college degree. I have never used it. I spent 23 years in a job that paid mostly minimum wage. None the less my estate is nearing a million dollars.
So we need to fix High school, teach skills and don't force hoodlums to stay in.
High school is full of shit. Forcing you to learn about stuff you don't care and sadly if you don't study enough or at all at this nonsense project you'll get fucked in the future since these dumbass marks dictate your future. You also don't know the world ahead of you, you don't know how to pay taxes, how to form a relationship, how to be productive and the list goes on and on. Rather they teach you about stuff that you will bore you to death and you'll have no use irl.
@DJHart ,You obviously know NOTHING about the problems of crime and violence that plagues public Schools.
I suggest you watch "Lean on Me " it was based on a true story and may give you a bit of insight.
College and Healthcare in America is absolutely disgustingly expensive!!!
Choose wisely.
Exactly! Not all college majors are worth it.
I loved learning and wanted to "audit" extra classes in college. Never went beyond a BA due to costs.
The notion that you have to go through 12 or 13 years of "regular schooling"
and THEN, on top of that, take a shitload of *extra classes*, with stuff that you'll likely forget 95% within a few years (if not 5), is absurd! How many people who go to college remember "tons of stuff" they learned, esp. outside of their major?? They might recall the basics and some details (esp. if they have great memories), but they likely, shortly after graduation, forgot much of it anyway.
Offering degrees in fields like psychology, sociology, etc... really is pretty dumb. What else can you DO as a job in those fields *other than* teach them or maybe have a private practice (for some fields like psychology, at least)? Or perhaps work for a think-tank or organization promoting some of that humanities stuff
But those jobs are probably very hard to get and few in number, and many likely require a PhD, esp. if you want to get a job at an actual college.
Then, of course, for many jobs where going to college might be 'very necessary', like Law or Medicine, you have to SHELL OUT A SHITLOAD AND GO TO GRADUATE SCHOOL FOR SEVERAL YEARS AFTER THE FIRST 4! All so you can be a lawyer, doctor, whatever. There are, of course, many other jobs where you can, theoretically, get a good amount of choices for job options and employment with only the undergrad. However... after you take out all of the other majors I just mentioned or alluded to, your options at a liberal arts university for 'jobs that are plentiful in number that you can get w/ just the 4 years' are probably only a relative handful.
*sigh* I got a Political Science degree. Obviously it's not as useless as getting a Classics or Sociology one, but I figured it'd at least get me *something*. ...I never ended up getting a decent job in a political think-tank, gov't, whatever. After a while I just said, "fuck it. I'll just go after whatever is decent and pays the bills." I had an OK gig with Citi for 3 1/2 years.
Now I'm gonna open up my own business pretty soon, and hopefully that does well! I've got some assistance in setting it up, too, so I'm not just going in blind.
You know what the SADDEST thing is? We keep touting LIBERAL ARTS degrees much to the DETRIMENT of things like tech school and trade school. I'm not sure I'd really like to do any of those 'trades' as a job, but, in hindsight, I probably wouldn't mind a good IT skill or 2 from a tech school, and it'd cost a LOT LESS! If more students had known about and gotten their fair share of tuition assistance for trade and tech schools... maybe things wouldn't be so skewed AGAINST new college grads' job and career prospects (e.g. oversaturation with so many getting degrees)?
If only 1/3rd as many students graduated liberal arts schools, in time, perhaps the degrees *would* matter more for careers like they used to? Then again, that would also add a lot more students to things like trade and tech schools (and community colleges, I suppose), which might, in theory, possibly "oversaturate" trade and tech degrees, certifications, etc., in the market. Obviously there's no easy solution, but, as left-leaning as I am on many things, when I look at THE FACTS, it's hard to really conclude that this incredible focus on "most every high school grad going to college" is "good for everyone."
One could easily argue that we've internalized this mantra that "higher ed is always great for everyone no matter what" to the point where it's TABOO to dare speak out against it publicly! This increases the likelihood few people will challenge said mantra, which allows the people pushing said mantra w/o evidence to get away with it and keep doing more of the same. *sigh*
As an student this is exactly true. School Is pointless but I am in too deep to quit at this point
Now i never went to collage , didnt even graduate highschool. Never stopped me . All i did was get (at first) lower paying construction jobs . The fact is that the majority refuse to do this. Ya see through learning all you can and climbing the ladder it dosent take a formal education . Just desire and motivation
I have a neighbor kind of like you. He has 11 kids, 6 cars, a plane, and a huge house on an 80 acre lot. People don't realize how much money there is in construction if you are willing to work hard and start a company or move up to being a foreman somewhere.
That's how the new immigrants in my major city have thrived. They start with low paying jobs, get on the job training, increase their skills with experience, and seem to be making good incomes to support their families here and abroad. Without an expensive college degree and no student loan debt.
@@superfantastic8481 I started at 19 in electrical appreciate ship, now at 24 I can write my own loan amount and can do anything I want with the free time afforded too me
@@superfantastic8481 thats how my mom and dad did it, the dropped out in middle school, immigrated here and worked the low hard labor jobs no one wanted to do. Years pass and they're saving their money for a mobile home, now in 2020 they're both independent contractors, with certificates from CC. They own a house and a mobile home with no mortgages, both payed with cash. All their cars were used and they do their own renovations and repairs. College is and has always been optional, you attend to get your degree in business, stem or to be a doctor in order to get a job that pays well. There are jobs that don't need a degree but you need to put the work in.
@@superfantastic8481 I do job but never increase any skills
Dropped out of Electrical Engineering in the first term. The BS was too strong. Went off-grid and back to trade and growing food.
Without that piece of paper the doors are closed. College does not teach you how to think but what to think.
Eric Rotsinger Exactly!
I'm doing very well in a job I could have got with just a GED. $80k/yr, 26 days vacation, 13 days sick leave, paid holidays, clothing allowance, matching 401k.
Are there any classes in statistics and law online?
@@aoeu256 look up edX, it's free classes from major universities, don't pay for the worthless certificate of completion, just take the classes to learn.
Hey, Eric...
"How to think v what to think".
I've not seen anyone else make that distinction since 1966 when my 10th grade English teacher told us that.
Bravo!
Along with what I have always called her "3 Laws," those have been my "guiding lights" since I graduated in 1969:
1. Words mean things.
2. Before defining what something is, first define what it is not.
3. There can be no meaningful or intelligent discussion without first agreeing on the definition of terms.
And for the record: I did not go to college.
And for the record: Most of those with whom I went to school at least retained the courage of their convictions to admit they were merely going to college to avoid that nasty little thing called Viet Nam.
In MY day, I went to college to beat the draft. I hated college SO much, I quit and joined the Navy. I've never regretted it!
I have a BS and MS in Structural Engineering. I also have an MBA. Over the past decade, I have become embarrassed to mention my MBA because most people assume I got it from a school that advertised on a billboard - aka "MBA in six weeks". How did it come to this?
Kevin Giambrone yep, sadly there are tons of worthless mba programs and few realize no one cares where you got your mba whether Harvard or some fly by night papermill
Bet you far out pace your peers because of your degree making it well worth it.
What’s your major? How to be a troll?
why do you have to be a dick?
3:13 Lobster dinners?! Must be Jordan Peterson's college. 😂 😂 😂
I’d attend
I'm an independent, most people would probably consider me a liberal. I completely agree our college system sucks at what it's supposed to do, give people the skills and knowledge for a particular field. I just wanted to study chemistry, but I had to take all these other ridiculous classes devoting all this time and energy learning about crap i didn't need to learn about. I think trade schools can be great and we should expand that model and explore other options. The main thing u learn from college is how to memorize a ton of information and pass tests; not very helpful in the real world. I've taught myself enough about engineering and vehicles to open my own shop. I did it by checking out books from the community college (for free) including test prep books to get my ASE certifications; and by watching videos on YT (for free), reading, watching videos, and talking to other business owners to learn enough about business to start my shop. All the knowledge is out there for free, anyone can take it, u just don't get a fancy piece of paper at the end. I've told a lot of people to do this, some of them listened and others didn't
Voltek Hybrid & EV Repair , My daughter noticed this and dropped out of college to go to trade school. She has been debt free and working since age 21.
That's great, ya we desperately need more people in the skilled trades. College isn't for everyone, there's nothing wrong with working with your hands. We need college to make engineers and people like that but I think we need to change the entire system. It's so old fashioned how they teach now it's a joke. Honestly the professors don't even do that much, 90% of the learning u do on your own while u read books and study. I think augmented reality will be a great tool to teach, especially for the skilled trades. On another note, for people that are younger like your daughter, they and we, need to prepare for automation taking our jobs. 20% of our workforce is in transportation, those will be the first jobs to be taken by bots, and from what i'm seeing from inside the cutting-edge vehicle technologies, self driving semi trucks will be the norm in less than 10 years. People don't believe me when i say that but they aren't seeing what i'm seeing; it's coming fast. Think about it for trucking companies, no drivers to pay, no sick time, no over time, no unions, no worker's comp, less accidents so less lawsuits, no complaining, the truck can run 24/7 365 only stopping to refuel (or recharge) This is a serious change we need to be preparing for now!
problem is credentials
Currently in college wondering why I'm being taught about climate change and microagressions when I should be learning C#.
Dude, I feel you. Learning Java and C++ to become an app and game programmer - have to learn the same thing. I had to beg a counselor to find me another class because I needed a diversity requirement - almost got put in feminine arts or some sort of dance class (I really dodged a bullet imo).
This is why gen eds are a scam.
One again, another jewel of common sense! Thanks, John!
I have a doctorate and I totally agree with Kaplan. Mental calisthenics do have value, but without intensive skill acquisition no training program retains much merit.
True enough.
When I attended School in Germany, only 10% of the general population was expected to ever make it to college.everybody else went to trade schools depending on the level of high school they went to. MBA equivalent training was done through business internships.
Germany has a well developed and formalized apprenticeship system (Lehre). Three years and tests by an indendent commitee to become a journeyman, more schooling, job experience and another test to become a master. And quite a few professions require a master to operate a business (Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic,...)
The "intern" was actually an apprentice, the training is part school/part on the job (Duales System - dual system).
So many things that in the US are done by (community) college are apprenticeship in germany
Now you can learn most anything you need to know off the internet in an entertaining way by true professionals. You get to a point where you can learn endlessly. But the truth- to make it big you need self-discipline and focus. What is truly lacking is the teaching of goal setting, and how to build a solid plan for success. Just starting with a daily list to reach your goals you will move past the average college graduate.
Tucson Jim Your calling well over half of the United States retards because most college students in the US couldn't even answer ANY of those questions. Japan is not a good comparison because that's a racially homogenous country that separates education from religion and politics
That's Harvard shit what your asking. Your going to have to face the fact that college is no longer the only place naturally intelligent people can learn or master their major. Two books you should read that prove this; Dogmatic Wisdom by Russel Jacoby and Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. These two books definitively prove that along with this video.
College is only there to bring out and master what you already have from. High School, nowdays college is no better than high school and what you said about AI replacing low end workers making degrees more of a requirement, it's probably not going to go exactly the way you expect considering there are already many useless college students and colleges who are not going to give up extorting the taxpayers by drawing in already dull minded people and giving them degrees they don't deserve.
Your questions are silly and irrelevant to making real money. And yes having a college degree you will have a better chance of making a lot more money. But people who go after college degrees tend to have a much higher IQ. there is a correlation. There have been many studies that show with a higher IQ you will do better in life.
The biggest equalizer for those who are not gifted with a high IQ is to work on solid goals using focus and discipline.
As for the rest of your writing. Please seek help! Being hateful is no way to go through life.
www.emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Intelligence-and-socioeconomic-success-A-meta-analytic-review-of-longitudinal-research.pdf
Jim, stop.
"It would be good if government got out of a lot of things." Great Quote !!
If you ain't doing STEM, don't waste your time.
Not everyone wants to be in the STEM field.
STEM or go to an elite, “name brand” school where WHO you know will be more important than WHAT you know.
That is for sure , the absolute truth !
@Joe really? Out here in Cali you need a master's to get hired. Associate degree is like a hs diploma
agreed. why I dislike those english majors that complain about their classes.
The problem is not if we go to college but when we go to college. Most people go to college straight out of high school, which is the worst time to go since most people have little to no idea what they want to do at that point in their lives. The best thing to do after high school is work on some simple trade, whilst practicing things you like to do. Then, when you have it figured out, proceed to get a degree in your pursuit.
Anything the government has their hand in don't expect a good outcome from it.
Learning on your own is so true. I studied physics. Honestly, everything I learned was on my own reading papers, tutorials and books online.
University only provides testing and a diploma, which surely can be done cheaper. At least our money funds paid phds and research equipment.
The only thing we saw women doing in university was desperately trying to find a husband that showed potential for high income !😆
Hypergamy has been present essentially since humans have existed and it still exists cross-culturally. It isn't all negative, but modern tech and the feminization of society has allowed hypergamy to get out of hand. It used to provide motivation for the creation of hierarchical structures based upon competence; if you are smart, hardworking, healthy, etc. you get the girl. Women have a well documented in-group preference, while men don't generally have the same thing going. In fact, we spend a lot of our time trying to please women. In a sense, we have an out-group preference of sorts. Society will continue to shift towards the left and increased feminization unless we throttle back women's influence on political and social issues.
It ain't hard. Just look for an engineering graduate. They been studying nonstop for 4 years with no social live and a job in hand.
M.R.S degree. It's more common than people realize.. sadly.
Woman are programed by nature
Most girls I met are good diggers for sure
The vast amount of knowledge on the internet puts colleges to shame. Many of my hobbies, including: art, music composition, photography and photo editing I learned from RUclips...for free.
John Stossel for President 🇺🇸
Tucson Jim why assume I’m uneducated? Honestly
Isn't he just a reporter?
@Tucson Jim *_excuse me. What the fuck!_*
Because that joke went over your head that's why. ...and proved a valid assumption.
Al S, I thought he was Michael Medved.
"If you want to go to princeton just move to town and start attending classes" I've heard this echoed before, is it true? A professor wont kick me out of a class or anything?
Yes u can but I won't be enrolled .. you won't get a diploma .. or degree you are not paying for education you are paying for the diploma the peice of paper ..
Wow, EXCELLENT video! The problem I have is that I have the degree but not the 3-5 years experience "entry level" positions require. Anyway, YOU DA MAN STOSSEL! I see Stossel upload, I immediately click. #weWantMoreStossel
b. That is a huge hurdle that kept us out of work for a while. Apply to a lower position but you will move up quickly because of your degree. Well, that's what we did anyway.
Do you think everyone could possibly be in a position to have 30 job offers before graduating, Jim? Or do you perhaps think that you were born with some gifts along with that unfortunate lack of self-awareness?
Thank you, John Stossel, for the work that you do. This video is spot on.
Before anyone attends college they must look at what they learned in high school!!
Many kids have graduated high school and can not recite the amendments..and they cant tell you who owns the federal reserve...Why is this? anyone?
glenn brunck , the previous comment by rayzimmermin tells us why...
glenn brunck most of what i learned in high school was a repeat of what was taught in middle school, most of the learning i got was from classes students were allowed to choose.
That's because the schooling system in America is garbage. Period.
The quality of John Stossel’s work is so high
I have a bachelors of science in electrical engineering. True I learned a lot in those classes, but wth is the point in having to take almost 30 hours of useless electives other than to make the school more money?
i chose to get a certificate just to avoid taking classes unrelated to what i want to do.
Back in 1983 when computer science classes were just starting to become popular in colleges I had the opportunity to take a couple classes at the local community college. I was in 10th grade and the ONLY computer knowledge I had was from sitting down with the HS's very first computer and a stack of books that came with it. Within a month I was writing my own programs and had found a local group of computer nerds where we exchanged a lot of programming ideas and computer knowledge. I decided to take the B.A.S.I.C. programming course since this was one of the required classes towards the Associates degree. After 2 weeks I dropped the course because I knew more than the teacher did and what was being taught.
I kept saying "Why should I pay money to get an expensive piece of paper that says I know what I know?". In hindsight if I would have completed the courses I would have graduated HS with an Associates Degree in Computer Science back in 1985. Regardless of that I was still allowed to go to the college and use the computers in the computer science labs and in there as long as I did not interfere with a class or took a seat that was needed for a student I had free reign. I was learning Cobalt, Fortran, Pascal and C programming languages on my own with just the books in the lab that were available. Some of the students even worked beside me and we taught each other tricks and explained things to each other we were not clear on.
Anyway you slice the pie they have watered down what it means to have a college degree and jacked the costs up because the government stepped in and started guaranteeing that student loans would be paid in full and not able to be "defaulted" on with a bankruptcy. It was bad enough that the small 50 page book I paid $75 for probably only cost them $0.50 to make.
Diplomas, Ivy League Degrees, they are status symbols, and always have been!
"Imagination is more important than intellect" - - Einstein
"...than _knowledge._ "
If you're going to quote it, get it right.
[Venkman]:"Einstein did his best stuff as a patent clerk."
[Spengler]:"Do you know how much a patent clerk _makes?_ "
Thank you on imagination. An absolute to success. As IBM said years as there motto THINK.
I went to an all boys college prep high school. Then on to a college and two universities. Big deal have the degrees. Three of them. I know trade workers who have more common sense than academics who tried to teach me classes. Guess what they own a business. Why does some professor who has never owned a business try and teach me the economics of running one?
@Leo K
Einstein didn't work in a fully funded facility _until_ he had published his papers on relativity; the laboratory work enabled him to produce his paper on the photoelectric effect, for which he was awarded a Nobel Prize (not his work on relativity). He was the champion of the _gedankenexperiment_ - of conceptualizing in the mind what would be possible to occur, before designing & conducting experiments to find out what actually _did_ occur.
And Relativity was not fully validated until the abberation of near-field stars was measured during the total eclipse of 1919. The experiments validated Einstein's model, but did not play a direct role in shaping it.
Don't mistell history to make your pet points.
I learned more in a trade school than in a university. But I learned the most from books I read (after college.) and I read his book. I loved the font in the title too.
I went to college from 1992-1996 and got a degree in civil engineering. I always thought those easy degrees were fools gold. As student loans became more available the campus' got bigger and the professor's made more money. Gender studies was born from this nonsense. If you are going to college make sure it's for something that will be useful.
Student loan debt is $1.5 Trillion and growing, that’s another bubble waiting to burst. But a lot of those people are unemployed or underemployed, they’re not working in their field of study. Plus, most college professors are super woke these days, they teach CRT(critical race theory). They want you to think like them, not to think for yourself. Colleges and universities have become liberal indoctrination centers, they don’t teach you how to think independently or critically. They offer a lot of worthless classes like music appreciation, physical education that you don’t really need (electives).
So you’re better off not attending college.
Who’s gonna take my place as a machinist when I’m done? Try to run a country with out machinists
robots
There is a large shortage of people doing more physical jobs. For example, if you study 3 - 4 years after elementary school, you can get a job as an electrician and earn like 1000 usd more than an elementary school teacher with an education twice as long.
An even BIGGER SCAM is the college BOOKSTORE. My son had to pay $292 for an accounting book (which I doubt he ever cracked). That is the equivalent of paying $199 for an obsolete, antiquated vinyl record when you can get a 99 cent digital download... or simply listen to the song on RUclips for free.
I like John Stossel and the way he explains the problem at hand
Damn even my high school teacher admitted that 80% of the things you learn in school and college is pretty useless. I’ve been getting into investing since 14, my entire family absolutely hates that I rather choose real estate with investing in stocks over college. They all have college degrees, out of reputation I would be forced to be in college without control, if I dropout, I’m disowned, and treated pretty much like trash. Being Asian and not listening and choosing a more comfortable profession is hard.
Good Job, John
in the 60s & 70s, I spent a lot of time auditing classes at Stanford ...advanced degree Ph.D. level lectures in S.T.E.M fields ...Law, Medicine, Engineering, Archaeology ...and subordinate fields Anthropology, Biology, Mathematics
...From puberty I had been frustrated by antiquated libraries and incompetent book stores for knowledge
...I lavished in the search for knowledge ...I was always in good company as the other kids were fully engaged in these fields ...although I wasn't supposed to play in their 'Reindeer Games', I was handily received with 'Hail Fellow Well Met' for my contributions ...I have compiled since then and never lost interest ...I 'give back' at every opportunity
John Stossel looks exactly like he did in college as he does now. And he is a clone of Tom Selleck from the Magnum PI series.
dude my gf said the same thing and the resemblance is fucking uncanny
Glad to finally see this covered! Nothing wrong with getting an education but in this day and age it seems like colleges care more about making a profit than providing quality education
Diplomas has no meaning now. It's like giving a trophy to every kid. Participation trophies... my kids don't care. I swear I'll some day dump them when the wife isn't looking.
The Stossel Stach was in full effect all the way back in college! Your commitment is commendable!
I didn't get my high school education and obviously no collage but I'm doing just fine!
I completed computer science but it was a waste of money. All that I learned could be learned online without paying that much money.
There are some things that you cannot complete at home, for example, medicine because you need access to patients, dead people, multi-million dollar equipment (MRI, radiology etc.), chemistry if you don't have a lab at home, all the chemicals, electronic microscope (worth millions of dollars), veterinary, electronics (where you need access to expensive equipment like lasers, practical practice at telecommunication companies, practical mentorship for soldering), etc...
Every time I say this to CS student they get offended because they don't want to admit that there is really no need to go to uni because nowadays everyone has a computer and access to all necessary knowledge.
I can confirm as Ive hired Computer Science majors - college is almost useless. People with actual experience and motivation are more valuable!
Great, except how do you get actual experience if you can't get a job?
I have four degrees, but cannot tell you one useful thing I learned; whenever I quote something, it's from Wikipedia or a friend. Schools today have ridiculous tuition/book costs, making it doubtful you can ever recover the costs, plus the lost opportunity cost of not working for 4 prime years. A certain prior president inspired many kids to enter college, regardless of reason. Now many of them are burdened with hopeless college debt.
So lets give some recognition to Mike Rowe's efforts.
I was working in fast food a few years back. Tried looking for a job and didn't meet the requirements because I only had an Associate's degree. So I went back to get my Bachelors degree... Did I get a job? Yeah... just not in my field, which was mass communications. I ended up right back where I had been before going back to school... in that fast food job. Now I'm unemployed, because I got burned out on overnight shifts due to not receiving any help from my GM and they wouldn't let me transfer to days or even another location... no matter how many times I asked. I finally had to give notice... for my health and sanity. That was in August of 2016.
I tried finding a different job while I was still working, even in fast food at places that were only open during the day, without any luck. I held off quitting as long as I possibly could. Now I'm unemployed, living with my parents who are covering my immediate payments for things like health insurance, by taking over some of the major chores and the family cooking, as well as volunteering at the local animal shelter. I *can* find job possibilities... in fact, there are *several* job postings that I am more than qualified for... until you get to the very bottom of the job requirements to where it says the following:
"Must be bilingual."
While I enjoyed my overall experience in college, as I didn't have to deal with the whole identity politics and SJW-ery (went to a Baptist private school), I do regret not considering going to a trade school or even to culinary school where I could actually have a better shot at getting a job. I actually enjoy cooking, but I can no longer afford it, as the closest ones are almost as expensive as regular college.
What they need to do is cut a lot of what happens in college. There are too many useless degrees being offered... for things like gender studies and lesbian dance theory. I'm sorry... but those degrees are practically useless. They also need to do like what the guy in the video said at the end... make it less accessible. If schools want to charm an arm and a leg, then they need to ensure that their students are actually getting their monies worth. They also need to do away with some of those luxury items. Lobster dinners... *really*? I ended up nearly $36K in debt, and I never once saw a lobster dinner at my school. Students are supposed to be there to learn... not enjoy fine dining. Things like a climbing wall I could understand... in the school gym. My school had a small section devoted entirely to the weights type exercise... the size of which was not much bigger than your standard McDonald's lobby in size. Students do not need those excessive luxury items. I think it's time people wake up and stop giving tax money to schools that do such things.
I don’t understand why I need a degree for something I can learn through a week or two of training. (I’m obviously not talking about medicine or engineering. I’m just referring to office jobs or library jobs.)
because the government wants you to go through thier money making system that puts people in debt and it goes alot deeper then this
Finally, I heard someone else say it! Useless subjects required in college to get a degree, that have nothing to do with chosen career path and take up several unnecessary years and add to the high cost! It makes it harder to retain the information you do need, and it's more stressful having to study and learn about subjects that shouldn't be required. Example: what does french Literature and astronomy, have to do with being a nurse? what does flag football p.e. ( yes in college)have to do with business degree?
Three words: privatize and deregulate.
Jim has posted (pasted) a lot of similar replies all over this video & its threads, I answered several of them but he has a lot of free time. Nobody can match Jim's free time.
John Andrew Yep, he should see a good clinical psychologist... I wonder if he lives near Toronto?
@Eileen: At least if he lives in Toronto, he's not down here voting for morons like Bernie Sanders
He thinks he's writing clever satire, but he's probably deep in the "spectrum", so it only plays are meandering drivel.
@K See: I've seen fat Tucson Jim posting on several of Stossel's vids, he "writes" the same reply over & over. He's pasting, probably gets a lot of his comments marked as spam. A few times I've challenged him on some of his talking points & he runs off. I'll catch him as he's posting some day.
I don't have all the free time he does.
As a new college grad myself, I agree that it is a scam and a waste of time and money. I at least am fortunate enough to have been smart about it, picking a useful stem major and getting a job lined up. Still, even then, I spent countless hours and dollars on classes I didn't want nor need. I can only imagine what it's like for someone who went to college and majored in something useless while partying for four years.
I barely made it through HS with my sanity....
So for me, College is the punchline of a bad joke
A cemetery I know of wanted a college degree to dig graves and general labor. True story, I once worked there.