3D Printed WORM GEAR - Can u Really Use Them? (PLA vs PETG vs ABS)
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- Can u really use 3D printed worm gears or they self-destruct themselves? In this video, we run dry and lubricated tests at low, medium, and high speed. We test most common 3D printing materials such as PLA, ABS and, PETG. I use only high-quality filaments.
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Interesting video however as worm gears are typically used in low speed high torque applications I think it will be even more interesting to see how they perform under load
Exactly what I was thinking.
I too wondered about load. I want to build a curtain opener. It takes quite a bit of pull.
petroleum based grease ok for plastic for long term?
@@SquareRootOfNegativeOne PETG is very resistant to chemicals and petroleum based grease shouldn't be a problem. PTFE or silicone grease should work with all plastics
I have a worm gear on my 1:960 train layout. I use it for a low torque low speed operation, so I should be fine.
I'm using printed worm wheel from PETG for car front wipers for 2,5 years. Still working.
impressive! be cool to se how much wear its gotten!
@@ale6242 unfortunately I don't plan to disassembly wipers mechanism until it breaks again. It is a pain in the *ss to disassemble it you know 🙄
@@ale6242 i would guess that nearly none. It's low rpm so it wont melt. It has tendency to be brittle but at this use it doesn't matter.
It wont give or shred material like abs or pla.
If you cant print nylon use petg for low torque application.
Interesting. Maybe I don't have to resort to nylon for some car things, then.
That stuff is a pain to print, after all.
PETG is tha best
No lube, no load. Do a longterm test with low rpm and high torque. That would be interresting :)
But he did use lube
@@Soljarag5 no load tho
worm gears are usually applied in low speed high torque applications. For testing worm gears, different load cases at low speed would be more interesting then just testing operating speeds.
Agreed.
Normally on a worm drive, the worm wheel and worm gear are made from different materials of different hardness. The worm gear is typically made out of steel and the worm wheel is typically made of brass. Also, input speed on worm drives typically does not exceed 3600 rpm.
Use igus filament for parts that are subject to wear and friction, they are optimized for low friction and contain solid lubricants!
I think including lubricants in a plastic would make a layers not stick together.
@@melody3741 he is right. Igus sells bearings and they sell a filament for making bearing surfaces. This is a great idea. The solid lubricants allow printing and lubrication.
Or just throw some oil on it and the texture of the layers will hold and trap oil and pull it through the system evenly
@@melody3741 some igus filaments print very easy and have great layer adhesion... I150 for example. I work with them a lot
i didn't realize this filament existed, I've used their bearings with great results. It definitely looks like a good candidate for gears
I made a small 3D printed transmission, without grease I could never get it to run for more than a minute or two. I greased it up and have had zero issues since. 3 months now on the same transmission on an RC car
Need to test low rpm with higher torque applications like worm gears are usually used for.
it's amazing how much the grease increased perforamance
Now imagine your transmission and your engine how important oil is
It's just about reducing a friction and temperature
heat is the enemy, even with metal gears
Its really not at all. EVERYTHING works better with lubricant
Or, you can use low-friction material which almost doesn't need lubrication, like nylon or POM.
A little drop of grease will last forever
Run them for a week and see which breaks first. Having them survive less then one hour doesn't say much of how useful it would be in a real world application. Especially without any load.
just and experiment
that really blows my mind how huge of a difference a little grease made!! awesome video. be great to see how well they work under a high load!
"a little grease"
XD
Good joke mate
@@HidekiShinichi you obviously havent greased a machine in your life lol
@@cranexdragon1046 I had. And for most part the less grease you use the better, the more grease you use the more issues in the future its gonna have. There are few exceptiona but still.
@@HidekiShinichi i didnt say you had to fill it till the seals break lol. But that right there is not a lot of grease especially considering its flinging it off as the test is running. Its not enclosed and the system does not retain any of the grease it expels.
true in engines and motors too!! HAH
The lubricant made such a huge difference!
I've had great success using a worm drive printed in very high quality PLA (to avoid surface inconsistency, usually I don't care on functional parts) with the same white lithium grease I use on my printer's Z screws. While I see a lot of comments demanding to know how they fare after hours of run-time, it's worth noting that plenty of projects require low RPM in short bursts, such as a pet feeder or automatic blinds. Also, the awkward way I had to design them in OnShape actually allowed me to change the tooth profile such that it could be printed upright with no supports!
Great video! This is telling me that for intermittent, low speed use, properly lubricated 3d printed worm gears could last a long time. Such as for remote camera pan/tilt, or even in simple robotics. Suggestion - put an affiliate link in for the grease you're using. Some grease isn't safe for plastic and will dissolve it.
I used a Delrin worm gear from a garage door opener with the larger gear printed with nylon. Very tough combination.
one Tip...
Print Gears and screws in 0.15 layer height.... it would be very better.
Taking it further, a 0.16 or 0.12 layer height would take advantage of stepper interpolation and lead screw geometry on most common printers, which will give even more superior results.
@@Inventorsquare How do you make sure your first layer starts on an exact step and not halfway between. Magic numbers only make sense if you can control the step position of 0 Z height (and nozzle Z offset) and most printers don't give you the information needed to do that. Moving whole steps is only useful if you start on a whole step.
@@backgammonbacon Which is why professional CNC operators have been telling the amateur 3DP crowd since day one to never use micro steps for *positioning*. Yay, it gets us where we want cheaper when we don't care about quality, big whoop! It costs pennies to add a gear box between your motor and your lead screw or belt, especially if you print it. You wind up with slower travel but there are ways around that too.
@@backgammonbacon print with rafts when printing gears
@@backgammonbacon I’m not sure, but it definitely makes sense in practice because the proof in the results. CHEP has a video on it.
One only needs to look at industrial applications of this type gear reduction system to see that nearly all use a maximum input speed of 1800 RPM. The worm is almost always made of hardened steel while the wheel is made of brass. The worm is usually mounted over top of the wheel. The wheel runs in a heavy weight lube (usually 90W) at a level that's about one third the diameter of the wheel, i.e. just below bottom-dead-center of the wheel's bore. This level virtually eliminates leaks while ensuring contstant lubrication. The heavy weight lubricant is required due to the extreme pressures encountered at the tooth interface between worm and wheel. By the way, this gearing system is considered the least efficient of any gearing system.
Worm gears are not meant to perform in high RPM, but in high torque applications, so 8000 or 12k RPM is much to high
I've seen many different 3d printing channels, but no channel did exactly what I wanted in terms of practical engineering + 3d printing materials and tests. Your channel fit that criteria flawlessly, and very well! Thank you for your content; subscribed, and I hope your content continues to flourish.
Thank you for making this test, this is very useful information.
I was going to order metal gear set but now I feel confident I can print them myself and use them for my low speed purpose.
Not only are wormgears used in slow rpm situations, they also actually lock the compononet gearbox. A It can only rotate one way, or actually it depends on the slope angle of the cog and wormgear..
Fun fact Audi loves using nylon worm wheels with I think steel gears (for seat height motors)
For better result you also can smooth abs with acetone.
Steel gears can't work without oil too. For simple example - cars.
I can see issues not related to 3d printing. The system flexibilty and lack of frame rigidity causing lack of contact between the mating parts. This will damage even steel gears. Specially when combined with maximum acceleration.
The 3d parts are not to be blamed in isolation in my opinion. It is the overall mechanical system design.
The weakness of worm gear is huge friction increase at high torque loads. Usally such gears are submerged in oil in professional application. Oil bath both lubricates and cools wich are essential with this type of gear.
I've made a number of little gearboxes. Spur gears, herring bone and also worm. I used Cf-Nylon and all stood up very well.
Can you also try Nylon, Polycarbonate and POM. Amazing video btw! Subscribed 😁
careful of pom, emits formaldehyde when overheated.
@@Tedlasman That sounds... dangerous...
Good video, as usual.
The worm wheels were not doing any work except moving themselves. I wonder how they would cope with being attached to a motor acting as a generator and drawing current or something.
You cannot back-drive a worm drive. That is one of the good points about them.
What an incredible example of how much difference lubrication makes for gear interactions
Wow! Grease makes a huge difference! I should invest in some good Lithium grease for my mechanics.
I'm from Vietnam, nice to know you are passionate about mechanics 👍👍
I feel like you should expand your testing to Nylon as well since it is somewhat self-lubricating. Also, most worm drives in practice often use a softer material for the Worm Wheel than they do for the Worm Gear. Once I upgrade my printer to be able to print nylon I was thinking of doing a "regular" Nylon for the Worm Wheel, while using a "carbon fiber" Nylon for the Worm Gear. PLA-PETG-ABS are nice, yet when used for industrial applications will always be sub-optimal.
Agreed. Also, PETG technically passes level 2 without lubrication.
This show that lubrication is the key (and remember that you need to continue the lubrication process while the gears are working, not only at the beginning)
I like wormgear for an application like a moving platform that needs to stay in position. But not fast continuous use that could wear it down. Also a better redesign of the wormgear would be to use thicker gear teeth so that it can endure a lot longer.
What was your conclusion about the different printing orientations: horizontal and 45 degrees?
45 he said
Даже не верится, что парень из Эстонии. Акцент рязанский ))
Мне кажется это классический пакестанский акцент.
@@taoorus автор из Эстонии. Садись, два.
@@user-lr8mf4cm1q не меняет того что акцент у него один-в-один как у пакестанских ютюберов
Try to use petG worm gear plus PLA worm wheel (wheel feels less temperature stress i think). Also i recomend to realize specal bath for oil lubricant under worm gear for heat dissipation.
I'd like to leave 2 thumbs up! Interesting test!
I've printed nylon gears for my extruders and have not worn out after a couple of years use.
level 1 = 2000 rpm
level 2 = 8000 rpm
🤨
maybe add a level 2.5 next time at 4000rpm lol
You can find cars with Nylon gears inside the manual transmissions that don't fail ;-)
amazing! so it's true, a little lube goes a long way 😂
@Gazza Boo why is there someone called she and why are they saying so much stuff
Great video, nice ILLUSTRATIVE test!
You should tell us in the description or pinned answer: which lubricant did you use? You could include aa affiliate link to where people can buy it!
Also : next you could test/compare a selection of different lubricants (common, best, best-value-for-price) and run all gears on "high".
Subbed!
Worm gear needed a set screw...once it had enough heat to not be locked to the shaft it could move out of position...forward on the shaft, causing the threads to be misaligned and thus accelerating wear and damage.
Exactly right. Relying on a press fit for accurate positioning in a stress/heat inducing application/test isn't sound design.
My theory is that the excessive lash between the gears is what caused premature failure when dry.
Really well made video!
And cheers for all the data!
Great work!
Really useful for remote direct extruders.
We'll shoot. I didn't know "CNC Kitchen" had a cousin.
Good work. You got a new sub.
Strange, I printed a worm gear mechanism all in one, so it's a print in place, and in this mechanism, I designed the gear stands straight up, and I printed without support and it works perfectly out of the printer.
Worm gears have a tendency to wear the teeth no matter what. That is why they are typically brass. Also most people would consider this upside down. If you made the rig with the worm on top the gravity forcing the teeth together would be reduced. Also if you offset the other gear slightly you might be able to avoid the heat and extreme wear. Just a thought.
Thanks, that was useful. I've 3D printed some replacement gears for the printers I support in PLA+ and have recommended the use of some lithium grease on the gear teeth. Apparently that makes a HUGE difference.
Hello. Which kind of grease is this one? Great experiment, thank you.
Please add load to the gears, it will (most likely) make a significant difference. Also, typically realistic applications of gears involve some kind of load.
I am waiting for these types videos
Great video, thanks for sharing. You know what could be interesting to test? Combination of pla, petg and abs material. for instance worm gear petg with worm wheel pla/abs etc. There are a few combinations. And see which combination is better given that the motion is given by the worm gear.
1 min video in subscribed & liked - love straightforward manner of explaining, no wasting time, straight to the point.
Pretty nice demonstration of why lube is so fucking important for gears. Nice work
Older Lift Master residential operators use worm gears and Lift Masrer is the best in our field, imho. Must use a heavy grease
Excellent video my friend, and answers exactly the question I had - along with a few I hadn't thought to ask. Thank you for destroying plastic gears at speed in your garage. *tips hat*
The moral of the story? There's always time for lubricant.
Nice. I was surprised that the grease made that much difference!
Awesome experiment friend
Try Nylon for gears
You should retry with softer tolerances, scale it up, make sure nothing rubs
curious.
what type of bearing grease did you use
Lithium grease
This is awesome man👍🏽 This gave me a very cool 3d printed landing gears idea for my rc planes thanks 😊
This is a perfect example of why you should change the oil in your car on time.
This video is so helpful I am doing a science project. I 3d printed the wind turbine with a vertical helix design but I have to use a worm gear to make vertical to horizontal to lift the weight. after class I saw this and I saw why mine was was stopping at one place I had printed it vertically and the print was not smooth at all I tried silicon lubricant which helped but this video helped even more. wish me luck!
Probably best material is Nylon. It is very slippery and several times stronger than PETG plastic, and its softening point is above 120C.
"Tangs" all jokes aside, nice informational video
Alternative title:
How to produce microplastic!
😅
I liked it, not because i want work gears, berry because I'm interested in friction damage.
I wonder how they'd go with graphite powder as a lubricant. I'd expect it to get ground into the surface imperfections. I'd then wonder if you could get a similar effect when printing with a filament that has graphite powder in it, so it releases more as it wears.
Interesting. So lubrication is everything. I wonder if exotic teeth types can make some remarkable difference too...
Late to the game as most comments I had has already been made, but I like your style of testing. Makes it feel like a race 👍🏻
Those fixtures should have been hard mounted to reduce vibration, plus the mention of heat treating parts would make for an interesting side note.
The problem with this test is that usually worm drive components are not made from the same material. The worm wheel is commonly made from a softer material, than the work gear, so it would wear first, since, using traditional manufacturing techniques it is easier to produce. It might make more sense, to have the worm gear made from some kind of metal and then try printing the worm wheel and then compare the results. This would provide much more consistent results in my opinion.
Try having them printed in IGUS, they have a material specifically for work gears.. And not too pricey either.
why would anyone ever use a worm gear then measure its rpm?
This is a grate demo on importance of grees
You get a better result using a standard steel or brass bolt as the worm drive and print the gear at a suitable pitch.
a nice demonstration how well lubricant does work!
a misconception is that you need all the teeth for the 3d printed worm gear. You dont. you can flatten a side and print it on its side to minimize axial load that may pull apart the layer lines.
You can design gears with auto lubrication, just because 3D Printer :)
very nice video - the only feedback i have to say is: Please check your sound, when doing skipping... its horribly loud and high pitched.
Time to make a speed reducer gear box!
Интересный тест! Спасибо за проделанную работу!
Main reason why we use lubricant in any gearboxes. It was be nice see how much torque it will handle. :-)
You should design a worm gear set based on static,dynamic and wear strength,and give proper lubrication and cooling area also
Try using a setup with tighter tolerances and a slightly larger diameter wheel with beveled teeth to cut down on the wear. You will of course have to change the number of teeth to accommodate the gear properly but the specs aren't that hard to configure.
The hard part is machining the bevels. Not only will in increase the longevity of both the wheel and gear but it will also decrease the friction and produce a larger time that the two are in contact for each encounter.
It sounds counter intuitive but the major problem I am seeing with your designs are that you are relying on single point contact, two points if contact continuous and 3 during the apex would be a more desirable design.
there are a LOT of problems with these tests...
1) Your print settings are FAR too coarse. That means increased friction, wear, and heat. Smoother prints will perform better, due to reduction in friction caused by such a coarse print setting.
2) You are not greasing your worm and gear at all. Even with metal on metal, you get friction, and wear, and grease helps mitigate some of this friction and wear. Greasing your wear surfaces will increase overall performance of the parts. It's also important to use the CORRECT grease.. Just gabbing any old grease isn't the way it's done, get the grease suited for the job. The black molybdenum sulfide based grease you used is NOT made for high speed sliding friction surfaces. it's made for hard surface to surface static contact. A lithium based white grease would work much better. also, over saturating the parts with grease isn't beneficial, and can actually be detrimental, because you are adding yet another force that must be overcome to push the excess out of the way. use just enough to coat the friction surfaces, and start off with a slow "run in" period to allow the grease to proliferate across all the surfaces, and excess to be squeezed out of the way.
3) listening the the "sound" of these tests, you can hear noticeable oscillation, this means either your worm, or your gear, or both, aren't accurately printed. as there is more, and less contact between the gear and worm. this increases wear in one spot, causing a targeted spot of wear, which works as a starting point of failure.
4) Worm gears are almost never used in high speed applications, as they are a torque multiplier. Run the test again, this time at slower speeds, but with a load on the output.
My suggestion is to not rush your print. use finer layer heights, print at 100% infill, and turn on ironing for a stronger bond.
If you aren't printing at 100% infill, and fine layer heights, you're setting yourself up for failure. These are wear components, so strength, and concentricity is important.
Interesting. I would've liked to see Acetal plastic tested also.
I am really impressed with the clarity and effort you put into this video!
I’m learning a second language, and it makes me really appreciate your simple concise writing
Great topic too, very useful information!
Really interesting buddy, I watched this on my birthday 👍🏻
Great video! Imagine the worm (driving) "gear" as a cylinder of material spinning in a lathe and the side face of a tooth on the (driven) gear "wheel" as a carving tool. If the tooth's side face edge is sharp it would rather cut and peel the cylinder. So, a slight bevel or chamfer on the (driven) gear "wheel's" tooth would take away only a small amount of strength but yield a lot less wear. This becomes much more important under high torque situations where the wheel (and thus the worm) is loaded. A polish on the thread face would also help with imperfections leading to vibration and wear.
god i'm so curious about nylon now as I printed one and i love it. it's very slippery and is wear resistant. maybe it'll not even need lubrication?
bro kerp it up, i m learning so much about 3d printing thanks to you and cnckitchen
Outside of transmission type uses, another thing they're good for is holding position in regards to adjustment. That's due to the typically locked gear train aspect where a worm gear can't be back-driven. But if testing for that you're likely going to want a bigger tooth size.
at a higher gear angle they can be backdriven
You could compact it into sand then cast it then it becomes metal
With metal worm gears the actual gear is typically dished more than what it looks like your have here, but with it being 3d printed plastic friction is your enemy
It would be nice to see a telescope worm wheel ring printed in segments to allow a large diameter ring to be bolted on to a plywood circle. Once assembled, a modified tap assembly can 'true' up the gear so that an inexpensive telescope worm drive can be made. I would substitute a readily available worm drive gear and tap combination for the 3d printing of a worm drive. Look at the price for a good telescope gear and you might decide to do them (if successful) as a side job. Telescopes move slowly so heat should be no problem. Backlash will probably be the issue.
Good video! Subscribed!