I 100% believe that Cloud is repressing tf out of aerith’s death, and I think it’s a wonderful and completely logical change to the story. Cloud’s entire DEAL is that he’s an unreliable narrator, not only to the audience, but to himself. The audience isn’t privy the extent of it until pretty late in the OG. That’s part of what makes the story so great. It’s being told from the perspective of an unreliable narrator who himself doesn’t know that he is an unreliable narrator. I think what we saw at the end of Rebirth was confusing to us because THATS WHAT CLOUD SAW. The incongruity is a feature, not a bug.
This is roughly what I got from the ending. Emotionally, I did get something from it, the sort of feeling you have of someone suddenly being gone yet somehow more present than ever in your thoughts. The sort of big emotion that the Water Burial etc. would give us would be very sad, but ultimately it's climatic: you had the funeral, you have no choice but to move on. I think it does make sense if you're doing a 3 Act story (which a trilogy is) with a character like Cloud to put off the Water Burial until the final part. The way the project is now structured, you do have to do something about Aerith related things essentially stopping completely after they leave the Capital, reoccurring once with an image of her that Bugenhagen shows you in on the second visit, and then like 2 screens at the very end. She might be dead but you can still have her be a story presence through the characters. At a guess, based on how they handled Rebirth, they build it up through the opening chapters of Game 3 with the story being written around talking about if Aerith is alive or dead at all. Someone like Barrett will almost certainly say "Look, if you want to talk abo..." to Cloud and get cut off with "We need to keep moving." Gast's house recording system will be a lifelike hologram and Ifalna will show up from the side/back at first looking like Aerith with her hair down, with a cut to Cloud similar to this thing he does in Remake, where he reacts and a single tear falls but he doesn't even seem to notice, Jenova flash. If they acknowledge it at all someone says (probably somewhat sadly) "Yeah, looked just like her" and Cloud says "Yep, for a second I thought she wasn't back at the Capital. Come on, let's get going." Note that there's a character present in the Great Glacier who would make an excellent expanded role, Holzoff. He's a guy who lives in the snowy wilderness basically due to one bad thing that happened to him: his best friend died and he clearly blames himself for not saving him/dying in his place. This guy literally has a wife and a kid/s who are alive now but has spent years in the Glacier by himself after what was meant to be just a brief trip, clearly punishing himself. I think the parallels they could draw are obvious. You build this sort of thing up until we reach the Crater, where Sephiroth confronts us with the Zack thing. Just like in the original, Cloud refuses to buy it. He looks to Tifa and - this time, she (reluctantly) goes along with what he's saying. Sephiroth just smiles and says why doesn't he just ask Aerith? She appears suddenly in a way that mimics the Rebirth ending but when Cloud turns to go "can you believe this shit?" to Tifa she has her head buried in her hands, crying. She admits that it's true. She was trying to protect him, but it's true - all of it. As Cloud suddenly can no longer deny it and puts things together we see "what really happened." Aerith dying in his arms. Some of the ending scenes with no Aerith. (Though I do think she is meant to be spiritually there.) 10-1 Sephiroth does a paraphrase of his line during Cloud's trial: "Your best friend died in your arms, and you didn't shed a single tear. You are just a puppet." Cloud COMPLETELY loses it. Holding his head, "Please just give me a number," laughing, the whole thing. He hands over the Black Materia, the Weapons are released, Meteor is summoned. This could take a huge moment and boost it even more. You also get to thematically tie Aerith and Zack together in one moment. And the Water Burial scene? You still don't show that but save it for the Lifestream scene later, as Cloud coming to terms. Go nuts and make it a full like 5+ minute scene not just a quick flash, hell make it partially playable with the players as Cloud carrying her from the altar to the steps before a cutscene kicks in.
The delay of the burial scene is worth the risk. We shouldn't be getting closure so soon, and it's far better to put us further into the unreliable narrator's shoes to set up more dramatic moments for the finale. The best "theory" videos are the ones that leave an avenue for interpretation, for that the intent of the author. I've heard about multiple timelines, Jenaerith, Lifestream Aerith, Cloud denial, etc. They all have merit and when I try to pin down one interpretation there seems to be evidence to suggest an alternate one. I'm sure the developers will be using all of them all the way to journey's end.
I think ultimately all of those theories (as long as Multiple Timelines involves the Aerith being alive not being "ours") would mean 1) a Cloud who is delusional 2) an Aerith he/we can not ultimately stay with or have around more than briefly 3) learning to let go 4) Cloud being crushed by the realization as part of his snapping.
About the Yuffie's line, in the Jenova fight: I played and watched a couple of other players beating the game and that line came up always on only in that fight. Not sure what devs meant by it, but it does not seems like editing error or something like that
It definitely feels like both in that Aeriths spirit is trying to prevent cloud from breaking and that cloud isn't accepting what happened. Agree on the water stair case scene, it makes perfect sense with what you said
I think Aerith is who changed fate being saved. She knows she has to die for the story to unfold as it does and shes now lingering via lifestream so Cloud doesnt have a breakdown sooner than he does
actually I can explain or give excuse to the same sassy battle dialog: it's because we play from Cloud's view point. It's a meta thing. Cloud thinks Aerith is fine, his JENOVA cells auto-filter out anything that indicates she is dead dead dead, and replace the lines with the usual battle dialog. 🙈🙉🙊If Cloud is in denial, we are in denial. If Cloud is emotionally confused, we are emotionally confused. 😆
You... do realize that they ARE still grieving Aerith at the end right? You don't need to look morose and be sobbing 24/7 to grieve. Does Barret's solomness at the water burial really contradict him getting irritated at Cait in the next scene? Cid's a tough macho guy, i can't see him crying openly like that, plus he only knew Aerith through a 15-year-old-memory of Ifalna. Cloud is clearly reflecting on Aerith's final gift, Red, Tifa and Yuffie are bawling their eyes out. Is that not enough? Also, materia can shrink or merge with weapons. We literally see Cloud do that w/the Black Materia in this same scene. This is cinemasins level nitpicking/not reading the scene. You may not like them showing video game mechanics, but its how their world functions. Even the Compilation material showed this.
I regret the way I phrased that. My point wasn’t that there was no grief under the surface, it was that I find Cloud’s unconscious emotional delusion in Rebirth to be more in line with Cloud’s character than being able to just plow forward. Personally I find it more interesting and think it will set up some big emotional moments in part 3 that have the chance to surpass the grief shown in OG.
I 100% believe that Cloud is repressing tf out of aerith’s death, and I think it’s a wonderful and completely logical change to the story. Cloud’s entire DEAL is that he’s an unreliable narrator, not only to the audience, but to himself. The audience isn’t privy the extent of it until pretty late in the OG. That’s part of what makes the story so great. It’s being told from the perspective of an unreliable narrator who himself doesn’t know that he is an unreliable narrator. I think what we saw at the end of Rebirth was confusing to us because THATS WHAT CLOUD SAW. The incongruity is a feature, not a bug.
This is roughly what I got from the ending. Emotionally, I did get something from it, the sort of feeling you have of someone suddenly being gone yet somehow more present than ever in your thoughts. The sort of big emotion that the Water Burial etc. would give us would be very sad, but ultimately it's climatic: you had the funeral, you have no choice but to move on. I think it does make sense if you're doing a 3 Act story (which a trilogy is) with a character like Cloud to put off the Water Burial until the final part.
The way the project is now structured, you do have to do something about Aerith related things essentially stopping completely after they leave the Capital, reoccurring once with an image of her that Bugenhagen shows you in on the second visit, and then like 2 screens at the very end. She might be dead but you can still have her be a story presence through the characters.
At a guess, based on how they handled Rebirth, they build it up through the opening chapters of Game 3 with the story being written around talking about if Aerith is alive or dead at all. Someone like Barrett will almost certainly say "Look, if you want to talk abo..." to Cloud and get cut off with "We need to keep moving." Gast's house recording system will be a lifelike hologram and Ifalna will show up from the side/back at first looking like Aerith with her hair down, with a cut to Cloud similar to this thing he does in Remake, where he reacts and a single tear falls but he doesn't even seem to notice, Jenova flash. If they acknowledge it at all someone says (probably somewhat sadly) "Yeah, looked just like her" and Cloud says "Yep, for a second I thought she wasn't back at the Capital. Come on, let's get going."
Note that there's a character present in the Great Glacier who would make an excellent expanded role, Holzoff. He's a guy who lives in the snowy wilderness basically due to one bad thing that happened to him: his best friend died and he clearly blames himself for not saving him/dying in his place. This guy literally has a wife and a kid/s who are alive now but has spent years in the Glacier by himself after what was meant to be just a brief trip, clearly punishing himself. I think the parallels they could draw are obvious.
You build this sort of thing up until we reach the Crater, where Sephiroth confronts us with the Zack thing. Just like in the original, Cloud refuses to buy it. He looks to Tifa and - this time, she (reluctantly) goes along with what he's saying. Sephiroth just smiles and says why doesn't he just ask Aerith? She appears suddenly in a way that mimics the Rebirth ending but when Cloud turns to go "can you believe this shit?" to Tifa she has her head buried in her hands, crying. She admits that it's true. She was trying to protect him, but it's true - all of it.
As Cloud suddenly can no longer deny it and puts things together we see "what really happened." Aerith dying in his arms. Some of the ending scenes with no Aerith. (Though I do think she is meant to be spiritually there.) 10-1 Sephiroth does a paraphrase of his line during Cloud's trial: "Your best friend died in your arms, and you didn't shed a single tear. You are just a puppet."
Cloud COMPLETELY loses it. Holding his head, "Please just give me a number," laughing, the whole thing. He hands over the Black Materia, the Weapons are released, Meteor is summoned. This could take a huge moment and boost it even more. You also get to thematically tie Aerith and Zack together in one moment. And the Water Burial scene? You still don't show that but save it for the Lifestream scene later, as Cloud coming to terms. Go nuts and make it a full like 5+ minute scene not just a quick flash, hell make it partially playable with the players as Cloud carrying her from the altar to the steps before a cutscene kicks in.
Damn that’s really good.
The delay of the burial scene is worth the risk. We shouldn't be getting closure so soon, and it's far better to put us further into the unreliable narrator's shoes to set up more dramatic moments for the finale.
The best "theory" videos are the ones that leave an avenue for interpretation, for that the intent of the author. I've heard about multiple timelines, Jenaerith, Lifestream Aerith, Cloud denial, etc. They all have merit and when I try to pin down one interpretation there seems to be evidence to suggest an alternate one.
I'm sure the developers will be using all of them all the way to journey's end.
I think ultimately all of those theories (as long as Multiple Timelines involves the Aerith being alive not being "ours") would mean 1) a Cloud who is delusional 2) an Aerith he/we can not ultimately stay with or have around more than briefly 3) learning to let go 4) Cloud being crushed by the realization as part of his snapping.
About the Yuffie's line, in the Jenova fight: I played and watched a couple of other players beating the game and that line came up always on only in that fight. Not sure what devs meant by it, but it does not seems like editing error or something like that
It definitely feels like both in that Aeriths spirit is trying to prevent cloud from breaking and that cloud isn't accepting what happened. Agree on the water stair case scene, it makes perfect sense with what you said
I think Aerith is who changed fate being saved. She knows she has to die for the story to unfold as it does and shes now lingering via lifestream so Cloud doesnt have a breakdown sooner than he does
I like your analysis! You could be right about the burial scene.
Thanks!
Whatever you might feel about the ending, I hope you have a good time.
actually I can explain or give excuse to the same sassy battle dialog: it's because we play from Cloud's view point. It's a meta thing. Cloud thinks Aerith is fine, his JENOVA cells auto-filter out anything that indicates she is dead dead dead, and replace the lines with the usual battle dialog. 🙈🙉🙊If Cloud is in denial, we are in denial. If Cloud is emotionally confused, we are emotionally confused. 😆
Now that’s some real wishful thinking. 😂 I did think of that though. Just not sure it’s actually the reason.
You... do realize that they ARE still grieving Aerith at the end right? You don't need to look morose and be sobbing 24/7 to grieve. Does Barret's solomness at the water burial really contradict him getting irritated at Cait in the next scene? Cid's a tough macho guy, i can't see him crying openly like that, plus he only knew Aerith through a 15-year-old-memory of Ifalna. Cloud is clearly reflecting on Aerith's final gift, Red, Tifa and Yuffie are bawling their eyes out. Is that not enough?
Also, materia can shrink or merge with weapons. We literally see Cloud do that w/the Black Materia in this same scene. This is cinemasins level nitpicking/not reading the scene. You may not like them showing video game mechanics, but its how their world functions. Even the Compilation material showed this.
I regret the way I phrased that. My point wasn’t that there was no grief under the surface, it was that I find Cloud’s unconscious emotional delusion in Rebirth to be more in line with Cloud’s character than being able to just plow forward. Personally I find it more interesting and think it will set up some big emotional moments in part 3 that have the chance to surpass the grief shown in OG.
im still convinced remake/rebirth aerith isnt dead she got switched into another world