A Different Technique for Drawing Proportions Better!
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2024
- Sick of drawings where the proportions are not quite right? Where the detail couldn't fit into the space it was meant to go, and the rectangles ended up squares? A common approach to freehand drawing may actually be the source of the problem, rather than part of the solution. The approach to drawing in this video, and its focus on keeping proportions accurate, may be just the change needed to open up a new world where architecture is not distorted, and all the detail fits into place. The reference photo can be found on the channel Community Page (as always), so after watching the video, why not give it a go yourself.
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The first picture is what I do. Thank you for this. Now it's much easier to see my mistakes 😊
Great to hear Mary. I’ve just posted another video on extending this drawing method across a whole scene. Here’s a link: ruclips.net/video/MGtxyvI8ZFY/видео.htmlsi=X_rOd1sw2r1kttSp
This was wonderful. I learned a lot and look forward to learning more.
It used to be a meme or a trope: almost every time an artist was depicted in a cartoon, they were holding up a pencil, pen, brush or their thumb while looking at whatever they were about to commit to paper or canvas, as if they were _aiming_ at it and the pencil, pen, brush or their thumb was their gunsight. This is why. It's a way to relatively accurately judge proportion. While looking at your subject, hold your pen (or pencil, brush or your thumb) out at arm''s length horizontally or vertically, depending on whether you're estimating width or height, line up the tip with one side or the top of the subject and "mark" the other side or the bottom of the subject with your thumb and then transfer that distance onto the paper (or board or canvas) in the same orientation. Then sketch in the line.
Good tip. One addition: make sure your arm is in the same place every time you measure, otherwise your measurements will not stay consistent. Standing in the same spot and fully extending your arm will help ensure your measurements relate to each other.
Haha. True! I tend to only hold my pen up for angles, not proportions, but if we want to use it that way as well, what you say is true. Thanks for sharing it with us. 😀
You only need to measure to grasp the ratio of things relative to each other. If you are following a photo reference, I highly encourage you to put your photo image on a light table and draw over it. That's not the same as tracing and it can get you quickly past the "carpentry" stage of a drawing.
My 2 cents of experience agree with what you are demonstrating: In a lot of theory we get taught to draw as much as possible from big shapes first, and fit in details more or less in declining size, and indeed it makes sense to overcome the typical beginner mistake to just cue detail to detail, until minor inconsistencies in proportions add up to massive inconsistencies in scale, and the overall result ends up massively distorted
The problem is, that ignoring the details doesn't work either, as they provide necessary intermediate landmarks for correctly meassuring the big proportions and relationships.
I think the solution is a strange balance and a mindset shift. The design of the drawing, the idea, still has to start with the big shapes. Some details have to be there, but they have to be subordinated to being a measuring tool for the big shapes. So the proportion of every detail can't be thought about in relationship with the next adjacent detail, but has to be thought about in relation to the big shape, until the big shapes are established.
We can't revert back to the beginner mistake to try to fit as many beautiful details as possible on the page and hope, that the overall proportions somehow magical work out, but ideally we have to try to find the minimum amount of details to establish the big proportions, then draw the big shapes, then fill in remaining details to prettify the design.
I'm a beginner and my biggest concern with this method is the same thing. That the inconsistencies will add up and become magnified. So I like the concept of your approach.
Fortunately as a beginner with no background I don't have any pre-existing habits to break. So at least I have that going for me. :D
most people tell you, its easier to find the basic shapes and than go into the details. You try a different approach in this video but the result is still amazing.
I finding roughing out large shapes a less helpful method when drawing directly in ink without the ability to erase any lines. 😀
he's still using basic shapes first. the details are more important when you're drawing, than the big picture. the details make up the big picture.
if someone tells you to make a basic overarching structure, they're usually not intuitive artists
I think worrying too much about little details in the start makes it more difficul
Although…to get the position of (say) your building exactly where you want it on the paper, and at the relevant scale (key word there) requires that you do have a handle on the overall proportions from the outset. So..in figure drawing, where legs are often longer than you think, I draw a head and torso in correct proportion..adjusting as you are with the door and then pillars, relative to each other, but then run out of paper for the feet. A long time ago I was trained as a draughtsman (with pen and ink) and getting the overall scale (so it fits on the paper) is the first problem to solve. Drawing 'actual size' in the field can help, where the image matches the sight size. But scaling something is a much harder thing to get right.
Some helpful thoughts. Thanks. I find that if I draw similar subjects enough, I can anticipate the sorts of mistakes I’m likely to make, for some almost default like reason, and hopefully avoid them. I’ve certainly run out of paper, but that in itself is a learning experience. Worst of all is to change the proportions to fit onto the paper. 😀
@@stephentraversart
Well… one piece of comfort may be that in doing this you find yourself in the company of Frans Hals and Michelangelo, and without a doubt many others.
@Calligraphybooster wait, seriously? They ran out of leg space too? 😮
@@prizzle9234 absolutely. An artist friend reminded me of a simple fact: they made mistakes too, as they too were human. Great artists, but human. We see they great(er) works, but not so much the failures they also made. One by Hals I saw for myself in Haarlem when I visited there: a portrait of a laughing man in a hat. For some reason Hals HAD to fit his arm in one of the lower corners of the painting. Cut-offs where no much en vogue back then apparently. 😊.
And for Michelangelo: there is a figure on the Sistine Chapel with a far to large upper body. It’s visible M. himself reduced the size while working on it. There remains a shadow around the figure’s back. M. is said to have been working laying on his back right under the ceiling, which made it very hard to get the proportions right. I’ve wondered for a long time why he didn’t think of making cardboard templates under hand on the floor below.
@triggerfish999 Hi, I run into the same problem when I do figure drawing... when I try to plan the whole thing, I can't get the proportions correct, much like the first drawing in this video. When I start with part of the body, I get the proportions much better, but I run out of space exactly as you said.
I'm also always changing the scale in the process, so that also makes it hard.
Do you have any tips? Thanks!
this actually makes a lot of sense because we are much better at comparing the relative sizes of shapes rather than gauging the size directly. You see this applied a lot in figure drawing where many people draw the head first, and then figure out the size of the torso, then legs by using size comparison. I always find that starting with an overall encompassing shape makes it hard to keep proportions and this video shows that I'm not the only one 😅 thanks for the tip!
Thanks for sharing Jerry. Glad it makes sense for you 😀
This made me realize i get lazy in checking my proportions against each other, and i tend to move "baselines" arbitrarily, making the overall result chaotic to look at AND to draw! Thank you so much for your advice and demonstration ❤
Sounds like you're on the right track for this now. All the best with it.
Thank you for showing us how to break this all down into a less intimidating process.
I'm taught to draw in exactly the opposite way: from large shape to the details. It's amazing how it works for you and it looks ... awesome
And your way can work well with pencil where erasing is possible. But I want to learn to draw directly in ink, and it doesn’t work so well for that. So I found this way was the best. Have fun, whatever process you use. 😀
That rule is mainly for figure drawing the big shapes to the small. For architectural drawing. It's easier to go from small to big
At some point in this video you show some more complicated architectural sketches of yours in perspective that are lovely. I would love to see something like that produced with you explaining how you achieve the proportions.
Thank you. They are all freehand ink drawings, and each of them has a video with the drawing of them as a demo. They all use the process I have outlined in this video. But they are about 18 months old, so you’ll have to scroll back a bit. 😜
I remember watching a demo by US artist and teacher Richard Schmid. He painted the eye of the model on his canvas and then made all his other measurements from that one point. It was stunning and very accurate in the reveal. I loved this video of yours, so helpful!
Thanks, appreciate your sharing 😀
This is sheer brilliance! Thank you!!
Proportion is probably the one element I’ve struggled with the most. So I really appreciate your sharing your skills. ❤
My pleasure Pat have fun with it. 😀
amazing, thanks for the tips
your videos are always so useful and inspiring!!
Really handy tip, thank you ☺
Thank you ❤
Actually amazing technique. So helpful!
This helped because I tend to make my drawings a bit too tall and slim, as compared to the reference. I have to observe better.
Sounds like you're on the right track. Have fun.
thanks Stephen
My pleasure Skully😀
In the picture itself you have a kind of mushroom effect: the base seems to be a tiny bit smaller and the higher you look the more the building seems to become broader. Of course this isn’t the case but it appears that way. A lot of office buildings have the same fate. I would build a building that becomes really a tiny bit smaller in the rise to cancel this effect. The base of the triangle also seems to bend down. The Greeks already knew these effects, hence they manipulated the Parthenon to remedy these effects.
This is great! Thanks so much!
You're very welcome!😊
Another perfectly timed video. Really struggling with proportions now. Thanks as always for the excellent content.
Always good to hear thanks Art. My next video will be similarly helpful if you want to watch out for it. 😀
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Thanks😀
Excellent tip! I just started learning how to draw so it's good to know these things early.
Thank you. Have fun with it all. 😀
Great exercise! Very helpful for the beginner.
Great to hear. Thanks Leslie. 😀
Exactly what I needed. Thanks.
Excellent 👏. All the best using it. 😀
Thank you so much, l always struggle with proportions, this video will be very usefull. And thank you again for sharing your skills😍
Thank you for the video! helpful as always ❤❤
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you! You reminded me of what it means to draw again!
That sounds great Ramon. Thank you yo telling me. 😀
Interesting approach for a complex drawing. Thanks very much for taking the time to share your skills.
Thanks Eileen. I use it for much more complex scenes. Check out the next video I’m posting shortly 😀
Very timely for me. I've been working on improving my freehand proportions and this is very helpful.
I always love being timely, John. 😀
As a commercial illustrator i use lots of photo reference for work. however, if you are just going to copy photographs there are plenty of ways including A I to do that sort of mechanical thing for you. I encourage fine artists to draw from life. I saw a portrait contest on TV where all they did was copy from photos they took with their phones in spite of having a model in front of them. Art is not a gimmick or trick and it is sometimes hard.
It is true that would be an incredible skill to develop. But you don't give any reasons why that's superior or preferable to drawing from a photo. I mean you may well be right, I would just love to hear exactly why.
@@EPeltzer I'm not certain I can provide a definitive answer, my friend, and I was never elected as an authority on art🤪. By the way, I can tell you're quite skilled at drawing! My profession required a focus on precise rendering. To me, that aspect is less important than genuine, poetic art. Allow me to recommend a transformative book: "The Art Spirit" by Robert Henri. Have you encountered it? I'd love the opportunity to discuss it with others, as it articulates some concepts far better than I ever could.
Drawing from a photo gives us the opportunity to improve on the photo. I think of it as using the photo as a starting point. I can adjust the composition, the values, and put the sense of depth back in (which is lost in a photo). 😀
@@stephentraversart I agree with all of that and any tool that results in an image that communicates your intentions is valid and useful, I recently encountered a book discussing Picasso's incorporation of photographs and advertisements into his art. What I'm emphasizing is the manner in which an artist can cultivate a sincere response and enhance their visual perception skills. The camera is useful, but it stands as a level of perception between you and the world.
@@stephentraversart At this moment in history, we, as artists, face a challenge similar to the one faced by the Impressionists at the advent of photography. Artificial Intelligence demands our human response-a task that neither a camera nor a computer can accomplish.
What an eye opener! I can see how it would help. Will be trying this! Thanks!
That’s great to hear Liz. Thanks for sharing and all the best trying it out. 😀
Both ways of drawing are correct: starting either from general shapes and breaking it progessively into smaller pieces or starting from a detail and growing your drawing around it. In the second way one might miss the general scale and find later or too late that the start was wrong. So, the first approach, form general shapes to details is the safest and easiest.
Yes, it is easier in some ways , but not if you draw directly in pen, and therefore can’t erase anything at the end. That is why I developed this way of drawing, when I wanted to draw directly in pen. 😀
Thank you so much Steven. That lesson really helped me work out my problems in keeping things in proportion. I really appreciate how you break things down into smaller, workable bits that help make the whole process much easier.
Great to hear. I’m happy to help. 😀
I'm happy to have found your channel today.😊☀️
I'm happy as well for that. Plenty to watch, so have fun.
Nice job explaining your method. I enjoyed it and plan to give it a go. Thank you,
Great to hear Lisa. Have fun. 😀
Hello, thank you so much for these great videos.
My pleasure. 😀
what a great point you make. first of all, proportion and perspective does make or break the drawing. and a lot of times we do not practice just those two aspects enough. as you’ve illustrated that, focussing on the smaller aspects and working towards the bigger picture makes your drawing a lot more effortless and allows you to spot mistakes earlier. This is how we as engineers also operate. we design little things that will be used to construct very big objects.
Thanks Sheridan, glad this resonates with you so much. 😀
It's very useful, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!😀
very helpful tutorial. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
This is a great technique! I love architectural drawings and would love to sit and do them, but I struggle so much with proportions. I mostly do animal drawings, but watching this is getting me excited to try doing more architecture. I also want to apply it to my animal drawings as well to see how it works with them. Thank you!
Great to hear Becca. 😀
As always, I learn from you everytime I watch your videos. I haven't come across you in a while, as I mo Ed on to acrylics. Abstract I've been working on for some time. It's always nice to learn from you.
I’ll always be here Diane if you want to visit. 😀
Thanks for sharing this technique! Drawing from the inside out... I'll try this. My sketches of mausoleums were too tall 😊
Have fun trying this out 😀
I believe there are basically two kinds of proportion: additive(extrapolating the line out) and subtractive(dividing up the working area).
When we use methods that involve counting, as with grids or ruler measures, we can extrapolate with very high accuracy. Detailing a small area like the head of a figure and then building the rest with estimated "heads of height" is another way of extrapolating.
The subtractive method is how we describe written symbols: we know that an "A" is built with a horizontal bar halfway down the area, and a peak halfway across the area. This method tends to appear when we look at comparative measurement, because one of the key things it introduces is the measurement of angles. If you divide up the page with a lot of angle observations, you can see clearly where the intersections are failing to meet, and describe proportional errors in terms of angle instead of distance.
When working additively in freehand, I prefer to use the methods of contour drawing, and rely on my ability to *feel* how much distance I've moved my hand, versus *seeing* a distance. But I also like using stencil shapes to set up ideal sizes: while I can make OK circles freehand, I make much better circles with a stencil. That reduces the potential for error caused by drawing slightly different circles.
Thanks for your thoughts 😀
Deserves more view for such helpful advice
You earned a subscribe and like,sir
Thank you. Perhaps you could tell your friends then, for me. 😆
very helpful. thanks so much. I've tended to work from big picture down to details, and this seems like a good exercise for me to be able to broaden my abilities.
It’s worth a try, I would think. All the best with it. 😀
4:38 Michaelerplatz, Vienna 💘
Correct 😀
Very good Video. Thank you.
Glad you liked it Buddy. 😀
Amazing different technique as you titled, and different concept as well that's so helpful!!! Though my drawing doesn't ask for high accuracy, it's a matter of whether I can or cannot describe things correctly. Thanks so much for a new world opened up!!!
Thanks. Have fun with it all. 😀
I like this approach. It's like when people draw people, they usually start with the bodies & end up having to make the heads too large. Burne Hogarth always taught his students to draw the head first & then it's far easier to get the bodies proportional to the heads. Thank you for sharing it
Thanks for sharing your experience 😀
This was so very useful! Thank you Stephen. I really enjoyed this concept of measuring realtively. So many of my buildings are so wonky...I am now going to try this method. When you were fliping the pages, I thought..."hang on a second!" I often walk past the spot you show at 18:40. Berlin, Klosterstrasse U-Bahn / Metro with Marienkirche / St Mary's church in the background. This church from the 1600s has a beautiful carillion that plays many times a day, sometimes while I walk past. I also took a photo of that U-Bahn sign, because it is so elegant and intricate. Now I have to draw it, using your method here. THanks again!
My pleasure. I ended a trip to Berlin (and Europe) doing a really quick pencil sketch of the rear of the Klosterkirche ruins from Littenstrasse. The summer sun was setting behind the walls and trees. It was 2018, and I didn’t know the spire had been restored to Marienkirche. The copper shone so brilliantly in the setting summer sunshine. I am glad Berlin is restoring its former architecture. I hope it continues. I look forward to seeing the palace now it is completed. If you want to watch me draw that picture freehand, you’ll find it here: ruclips.net/video/l9fbe9ycN3M/видео.htmlsi=xhQRAtvyB3DjMxPy
@@stephentraversart Thanks so much for the lovely response and story. I will hop off to watch your video. For me, it was the intricate iron work on the UBahn station entrance that called my attention. It is funny, being a local, some things blend into "things I see while on the way to work/school etc" and don't get noticed. I wish I had the fresh eyes of a visitor to see places I routinely walk past. Thanks again, Stephen.
of course your deft strokes in the solution version do show your skill
Oh - the second attempt
Watching you work was most enjoyable - and inspiring
Thank you.
👋
Kind of you to say, Stephen. I’ve just posted two real time 10 minute drawings if you’re interested 😀
It's cool, but I think the main reason why art schools and such teach people the opposite way is because it won't work if you have a limited space to work with (e.g. planning to fill the entire canvas or not being able to cut it after work if your art ends up fitting badly).
I think we can learn to balance the scale and placement with our paper size. I think the main reason is that blocking out codes work well, and is straightforward as long as we can erase the unwanted lines at the end. Drawing freehand in ink, that’s therefore not a technique that will work for me. 😀
The curve above the top right window.
😮💨😮💨😮💨
Can you let us know what pen you are looking using?
Great video, game changer for me! Thank you!
I used a COPIC Multiliner 0.3 mm pen. 😀
Thank you…. Really appreciate this tip. Art saver xxxx
Thank you so much! This is exactly what I'm struggling with now. I'm not trying for architectural precision, but I am always disappointed when I get the proportions wrong, usually too narrow as in your first example.
If you were drawing from direct observation instead of a photo, would you use the same method, from smaller shapes to larger shapes?
The same technique, but greater observation is needed I think. 😀
I’ll give this a try. But it all depends on you getting the proportions of your first section correct. Why would it be any more correct than with the other approach? Maybe I missed that part of the explanation.
It’s not a case of more correct, for me, it just works better when drawing directly in ink, as I like to do. If I rough out a larger shape, every mark will be there at the end. If I drew in pencil, or pencil first, it wouldn’t matter as I could erase unwanted lines. Does that make sense?😀
Thank you! Nothing kills a drawing more than if the dimensions are off. I've found in the past it was easy to fool myself for a good portion of the drawing only to realize late that I've painted myself 'into a corner' with bad ratios (I'm a bit more guarded now so it's not as frequent - but it happens). :\ In all fairness, you probably could have done a credible job with the first drawing if you had focused on it like it was a masterpiece. Still, that's about the most exacting way to try to draw correctly - and it leaves no wiggle room, either. I still have issues with feature sizes on animals (head one size, body the other) - it's the curves that throw me off I think.
I drew a kangaroo a few months ago which never made it to video!😆. Lumpy proportions everywhere! Yes, architecture has some advantages in practicing proportions. Actually, I did have to restart that first box as well, because my first quick effort was a little too accurate for the purpose of the demo. 🤣
Professor stephen i can not find your reference photos. Please tell me how i can take this.
Thanks for your videos. You ar a very good teacher.❤
I explained in your other comment 😀
I have also found that starting with a certain part rather than trying to get the proportions correct for the whole thing, also works very well from me when I'm drawing figure. I can never get it right if I try to do the full body from the start and fit elements in, some of them always end up with weird sizes.
However, the problem I run into by starting with a part is that I often run out of space on the sheet or my figure is way too small compared to the rest of the sheet etc. Do you have any advice for that? Does it ever happen to you that you start a building and then you can't finish it, because you run out of space?
I am doing ok on proportions when drawing from a picture, but still struggling a lot when sketching outdoor, maybe cause I can't use the pen or fingers to help me as a guide.
Outdoor sketching needs us to convert 3D reality into 2D. A photo has already done this for us. Practice from a photo without using anything you can’t use outdoors will help you develop the observation and other skills you’ll need drawing outdoors. Have fun with it. 😀
@@stephentraversart Will do! Thank you for your reply and beyond!
Interesting approach, and I sure can’t argue with the results you create. But, if you start w/ the small and then grow out to the large, seems like you’d be in danger of running off the page. Are you able to manage the overall composition with such an approach? Seems like you’d struggle with controlling the location of objects inside the picture frame. Maybe I’m wrong, or maybe that is an aspect that you ignore or maybe it just doesn’t influence your art.
I control size by controlling the size of my starting section. If it’s half the size of my reference, and I draw it in proportion as I expand, my total size should be half the original; or double, if I start with an element double the size of my original. Placing other object elements is often by observing negative space carefully. I think the truth is, we have to learn to observe more effectively. We start to draw before we’ve really seen what we have to see to draw accurately. Thanks for your thoughts 😀
Ya that first drawing hurt🤔
Me more than you!😆
This feels so backwards to me. It's like drawing a human figure by the belt first, the head by it's eyes first, or the legs by toes first.
It works best for me, if I’m drawing directly in ink. But it’s not compulsory. 😆
When you say "hit the like button" the button itself light up with a rainbow colored line...
I didn’t know that. I’ll have to say it a lot more often!🤣
I’m proud to say that I gave this video its six-hundred and sixty-sixth like.
Really helpful video, this is going to sound like a stupid question but why not use a ruler to get an idea of length and height?
You can if you want. There are no rules. But it will stop you developing the observation skills needed to draw freehand with accuracy 😀
I don't want to do draw-RING!
It’s a lot more fun than plain old draw-ing!😆
In summary:
Use your eyes
I have wanted to learn how to draw buildings like this for ages. I'm so glad I found your channel! You explain everything so well! Thank you for your content! Its been a big help to me. 🫶
How encouraging to hear. Thanks, and all the best. 😀