🎹Kawai GX-2 vs Boston GP178 Grand Piano Review & Comparison - Both Built by Kawai in Japan🎹
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2021
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#GX2 #GP178 #GrandPiano
Hi everyone, and welcome to another piano comparison video here at the Merriam Pianos RUclips channel. Today we’ll be comparing to oft-compared grand pianos, the Boston GP178 and Kawai GX2. In many ways, cousins by way of a common ‘birth-place’, Hamamatsu Japan.
The information on the differences or similarities between the Boston and Kawai pianos has always been a little vague to say the least, so we hope to shed some light on the important points of difference as well as commonality between the two leading instruments.
Tonal Differences
It’s our impression that whereas the Kawai has emphasized more cabinet tone in proportion to its overall tonal output, the Boston - by way of it’s lower tension scale design and larger soundboard, appears to have prioritized the soundboard tone. They each have their appeal: the Boston has a clear and open tone that’s lively with plenty of dynamic output to the player. The Kawai has a thicker tone with - at least with the two examples compared here - a longer sustain and a more active cabinet resonance.
Boston recently added hardrock maple inner rims to their pianos, bringing them more inline with the GX offering, vs the first edition Boston’s which were primarily Mahogany. That said, The GX rims appear to be slightly thicker, and their use of the fully-integrated stretcher bar also speaks to the emphasis on cabinet tone.
The Boston can brighten easily, and the bass is brassy and prominent. The transition from the mid-range to the bass is better smoothed on the Kawai, but with a different bass character than what the Mapes-made coppers deliver.
Action Differences
Boston uses a Steinway-designed action which is largely built by Kawai at the factory to Steinway spec. True to form, it’s an all-wood action with standard geometry, and regulated well. The feel is a little lighter than the Kawai, which with its lengthened keys plays like a 7’... lots of depth and control, but for lighter fingers, will take a bit of muscle building to ramp up to compared with the Yamaha-esque feel of the Boston.
Lower dynamic control is excellent with the Millennium III action, something it’s explicitly designed for, and at all volume levels feels like a more precise tool - however the Boston is so fluid and easy to play through the mid and upper dynamic ranges that in some settings, it’s going to be the more ‘care free’ instrument to make music on.
Conclusions
Different designs, built to the same quality standards by the same people at the same factory - a rare setup within the industry that within the retail sphere, has made for strange bedfellows. Despite lots of vague rhetoric to try and create lots of daylight (or minimize it depending on who’s doing the evangelizing), the differences are remarkably easy to articulate, and those differences manifest in a distinct tonal experience. While ridiculous to try and make the argument on either side that one somehow ‘rises above’ the other from a quality or heritage stand point, people will no doubt have a preference based on their clear musical differences. What’s yours? Thanks for watching!
For those interested in a more intense listen (raw, unmixed...you'll notice both will be a little left biased, since the large diaphragm mic's were giving us a bit more signal into the left channels).
Kawai Audio
drive.google.com/file/d/1c1Yd...
Boston Audio
drive.google.com/file/d/1ld8p...
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My vote is for the pianist! Amazing!
Merry Christmas to me. I just got a GX2 and love it
Just purchased a GP 178, love it, thank you for your review
You're very welcome! Congrats on your new piano! Thanks so much and happy playing! :)
Thanks so much for this - not enough diligent comparison available on the web. I think you set the standard! Greetings from Sunny Australia as we head into a hot summer Christmas .
They both sound so different but so awesome . Another great review Stu
Kawai has it for me; lovely tone. Excellent review and playing as always Stu.
Brilliant pianos, brilliant review. Thanks, Stu!
I’m in love with my Boston 178 g p
Congrats on your Boston GP178! Thanks for tuning in and happy playing! :)
Hi Stu, Thank you so much for your videos. They have really helped me make my final choice - Kawai GX2 which arrived a few weeks ago and sounds amazing! Please can you let me know what music you are playing on each piano at the beginning of this video?
I tried a GX-2 in person today along with a bunch of Steinways, a Boston and a few Kawai GLs and I have to say that the GX-2 is by far my favorite piano aside from the Shigeru SKs. The feel and sound are just so good. The control is sublime. I can play the absolute softest of pianissimo with ease and it just resonates perfectly. I can't afford one right now, but I really hope to get one in the next decade.
I agree. I purchased aGL30 in 2021. The GX1 was pushing the budget of a retiree and the difference, in my house at my skill level is minimal. Moreover, I can only accommodate a 5’5” max. The GL30 is magnificent in my home. I found it just as easy to control low bass and ppp as with the GX. BUT Im not an advanced pro. After getting it my wife began learning. It’s that beautiful - to play, to listen and to look at. If this was 2003, and I wasn’t retired and earning, and my former large home, I’d have gotten the Shiguru. But I didn't play then. ENJOY!
Agreed. I find the GLs, at least the Japanese ones, havd sublime control too.
I’m curious. Did you play a GL? I have a GL30; I could afford it. The GX2 was another 8K. My wife (who is not a musician)said of the sound, “It was magnificent.”
I would like your honest opinion.
TY
@@kenpeters9807 I did play a GL-40 and it did sound wonderful. The main issue I had was that the action wasn't refined as much as with the GX. I believe that they have the same action, so with a good enough technician and enough time you could probably reach a similar level if not the same. The GX did sound a bit nicer, but from the action not being regulated to nearly the same degree, I would assume that the GL just hadn't been brought into its top condition. Obviously, more expensive pianos are going to be marginally better, but I think the difference isn't that big and unless you're rolling in money you're probably better off going with the cheaper option.
@@triplea657aaa Thank you for your reply. Several months ago I spoke with KawaiUS’ director of acoustic pianos in the US about the differences: GL vs GS. Those made in Japan get more attention and get it from the best and experienced technicians. The same techs (these are high paid people) work both on GLs and GXs. It depends on their assignments for the day/ week. Three of them literally signed off on my GL30. ALL the GLs are played, touched listened to, etc (as, of course, are GXs) by techs. Both pianos use state of the art manufacturing processes - considered by many as the best in the industry. The grands come off the line nearly perfect. Any imperfections should be ‘caught and adjusted’ in the technical review. Here is what he said is the difference: Nearly half the price difference is in the cabinet finishing and key surface. Of the piano itself (not the cabinet) a big part is the inner rim. The GX gets a significantly more amount of technician labor applied to feel/ action (you guessed at this and it us what he said). As to the grands played in a home, (where most are used - the sound difference is virtually indiscernible. The difference in the touch should be most notable because of the individual tech time. The actions are the same but individual attention to EACH key and makes the difference. You noticed this. He told me most customers get the GLs because customers, IF they notice the difference, find the difference is very small for the (considerable) extra money.
So, what you told me supports completely what the senior executive told me.
If I was made out of money, I probably would have gotten the GX1 - but who knows? I am so very happy with my decision and being able to afford this great piano. It is so very perfect for me … us; my wife has begun lessons! Apparently, most customers - most are mere mortals - and get the GLs.
I am very pleased to see that you found the sound to be wonderful on the GL40. I was not able to compare side by side. I did a side by side with the GL30 and a BOSTON that was 6” or so longer. Playing it and listening - both my wife and I gave the KAWAI the hands up victory.
An aside: I have an incredible instructor, and he’s in my neighborhood. Paul Hoffmann (see Paulhoffmann-music.com). He played it in my home and after a quick play over the entire range, then concentrated on the lower bass. He couldn’t get over it! Now we were in a home setting, and my home has very nice acoustics - but he thought, and expressed, that the bass was as nice as his SS M model (its a 1920s refurbished SS. I play it for lessons. His only negative was it’s touch is a wee bit heavy fir his preference; but easy to adjust to it. Of course, his is played almost everyday for 6 hours or do. Mine averages 1.5 - 2 hours about 5-6 days a week and is only a year and a half old.
It’s really cool to hear a Steinway professional give high kudos to a Kawai less than 1/2 the price. I was elated.
Boston sounds like a 60 years old piano. Kawai has better presence feeling and clearer sound in this video in my opinion.
I have a GX-1 on order (in satin ebony, so it is taking longer), and I come to your channel to listen to the Kawai sound that I fell in love with while I wait. Your ability to do classical and jazz is so wonderful and I love listening to you play, Stu. Thanks for making a long wait more tolerable. :)
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in Jennifer! We're glad this video can offer some consolation while you await your new GX1. Trust me when I say that it will be well worth the wait! ;)
Jennifer, I know you’ll love it. I had to wait 6 months for my GL30 in 2021. It was WORTH IT. My dealer said the same thing, and they were 110% right-on. We are so happy, this instrument is magnificent - and the GX is even nicer! You’ll be overwhelmed! We are happy for you. We are in Florida.
@@kenpeters9807 Thank you, Ken. I have reason to believe it is on a cargo ship waiting to be offloaded, so there is hope for a delivery in the next several weeks (after processing and a trip by truck to Georgia). :) I'm so glad you have your beautiful piano and I appreciate the kind words!!
I ordered a Kawai GL30 from the largest Kawai dealer in the Midwest. They were giving me about 40% off msrp. When the brand new Kawai GL30 arrived a brand new GX1 and a brand new GL40 arrived. I spent seven hours playing these three back and forth. I went home and couldn’t get the brand new GL40 out of my mind so I went back to the dealer and spent half a day with the GX1 and GL40 as I preferred these over the GL30. I ended up negotiating a great deal on the brand new Kawai GL40 (delivered for 24,000). I am very happy with my decision as the bass on the Kawai GL40 was so much better than the GL30 and the GX1. When I get a better job and bigger place I would love to get a Kawai SK3 tho but for now my Kawai GL40 is amazing in my small apartment. How are you enjoying your GX1? I also loved the GX1 but for the same price I opted for the larger GL40
Both pianos sound really nice, but I prefer the Kawai. I think it has a richer tone and having played both these brands side by side I would also assume that the GX-2 has more volume and is able to deliver a higher dynamic range. As always, I appreciate your detailed reviews. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, the Kawai does seem louder, but strangely not as warm, now that I hear it again. The low mids are very important to me, and the Boston sounds more interesting there. These pianos do not even sound like they were tuned or toned by the same person. Well not to me. These things could affect sound a lot IMO. Now I'd like to hear two of the same piano to know how much casual variance might be involved.
I have the Boston but I must say the absolute magical resonance and longer decay on the Kawai makes me want to switch. That is a gorgeous tone.
@@KeepingOnTheWatch hahah. And at least you don’t have to tune. I also love playing my distal so much. Having a sound library is such a great creative outlet.
Hi Sara, in 2020 and 2021 I did a lot of research. Narrowed down to the KAWAI GL30 and the BOSTON. The GL30 won. I previously dad a Kawai CA98. Fabulous instrument - but nothing like the real thing (and Kawai’s don’t need much tuning).
@@kenpeters9807 Thank you for your reply. Are you going to get the GL 30? It looks like it’s going for around $32,000.
Sara, most dealers discount Kawai’s. Steinways and Boston’s are amongst the few that have fixed prices by the manufacturer. You can expect an 11% to as much as a 15% discount. As in any industry, some dealers sell volume at low prices but do not support their sale. In some of those cases, dealers who have a right to the pirated sale will not service that piano either. The practice is not widespread but happens, so if the price is too good to be true, ask a lot of questions. What State or Province do you lice in?
Here in India Bostons cost more than Shigeru Kawai...One should try Estonia too..
Thanks for the comparison. I think, especially with transparent classical music, I can hear which grand piano is of quality the quickest. With jazz it's a different matter.
Many thanks for these excellent reviews. Even in a same store it can be hard for an average customer (as I certainly am) to ear such differences when the instruments are not side by side, in the same room. This makes your work incredibly useful.
A suggestion: it would be interesting to perform the same kind of comparison between a standard Kawai grand and a Shigeru of the corresponding size (GX-2 vs SK-2 for instance).
You're very welcome! We're happy to hear that you found the reviews useful! Also, thank you for the suggestion. A comparison between the GL40, GX2, and SK2 could be quite compelling! I will pass it along to our production team. :)
Hey stu could you review the roland fp90x vs the dp603 because there in the same price range and they have the same action and the speakers are the same wattage but they have a different sound engine and the speakers are placed differently
So, I feel this Boston is voiced rather dry. I've heard a few of them and they can get this strong and semi-bright tone to them. They also can have more color/nuance etc. in their voicing and more sparkle to the sound. Pianos are very strange, I guess as are most musical instruments, because you can get the same model and they'll sound different. The Kawai, also, sounds quite rich and it seems to be lovingly voiced. A Boston with the same attention to voicing would have more richness, in my opinion.
Boston's are fine. They play well and sound well but I prefer Kawai and Yamaha at the conservatory level above pretty much anything except Hoffman.
Hey @Benjamin Smith, I've played Boston's that are 'rounder' than the one played for sure - so absolutely they have a tonal range just like any good piano, but the other characteristics I touch on in the video are ones not typically influenced by voicing - such as cabinet resonance, sustain, the 'break', etc. Same company building them, but of course very different pianos by design. Great as always to hear from you, we always appreciate your thoughtful comments!
So what does wet voicing sound like?
Hey Stu, do you ever get any Mason and Hamlin's in the studio? I would love to hear your in depth discussion (and playing) of an M&H Model A, B, 50, or any M&H 😊
My friend has a Mason she has a RUclips channel “Pam’s Piano “ she’s an awesome pianist and she posts videos of her playing piano
I’ve played one. I just can’t afford 100 k so I didn’t linger. Haha
The best piano demos available, playing is superb!!!! I love the pragmatic honesty in the reviews without the hard sell. Kawai for the most part for me… something about that Boston/Steinway ringing bass I like though!
Thanks a million! We really appreciate those incredibly kind words! These are both exceptional pianos that are extremely well-built of course. With that said, the combination of tone and touch from the GX line is very difficult to beat in my opinion. :)
They sound very similar to me. What’s the cost difference? It seems like the Kawai GL 40 would be a better comparison. I’m guessing you are a Kawai dealer, don’t you have one sitting around?
I have a Boston 156PE and after my tech spends a few hours with it he can work some absolute magic even on a piano that small. Until I can upgrade with Steinway I love the action and feel of the Boston. The kawai in this video definitely sounds better, with a talented tech they could completely change the 178 tone to a night and day difference with voicing and tune
A talented technician can definitely transform the voice of any piano and get the absolute most out of its musical potential. With that said, we are very fortunate to have wonderful technicians, some of whom highly specialize in voicing. Thanks so much for tuning in! :)
Great analysis on the bass strings. The Boston bass strings sound a bit harsh compared to the Kawai
Excellent review while being entertaining.
Thanks so much! We're happy to hear you enjoyed it! :)
I'm curious about the weight distribution on a baby grand. Roughly 700 Lbs? That puts about 230-40 pounds on each foot. Where is the bulk of the weight of the entire instrument, or is it fairly well distributed on the three legs? Should a floor be shored up to take the weight at the three points of contact?
This is a great question and one that would be well served for one of our FAQ videos. With that said, I can certainly provide some insight here. The metal frame of the piano is the heaviest single component, weighing in at around 400-450 lbs for a grand piano. Because of the shape and placement of the frame combined with the placement of other heavy parts such as the keyboards/actions, the weight distribution of a grand piano is actually a little less strenuous on floors than taller uprights due to the extra point of contact. One thing that can help prevent damager to your floors and even assist a little in terms of distributing the weight, are castor cups. This is definitely a question that would be worthy of a full analysis and deep dive, but, hopefully, this provides some context and insight. :)
For the high register, the Kawai has a bit fuller/rounder sound (more cabinet resonance?) while the Boston is a bit shriller. More hollow.
I've no idea what that first piece you played was. I'd love to find the score of it to play. TL;DR - I preferred the sound of the Kawai.
it's an improvised rendition of pathetique sonata by Beethoven, the 2nd movement
Kawai anyday... but I would love to see à review of an used GL.
I really think it's a no-brainer that the Kawai has a deeper resonance, harmonic tone and overall warmth across the range - my personal preference is that's much more interesting in terms of exploring musical tone and expression - but that's me. I would take the Kawai over the Boston any day of the week for that reason, well actually I have; my new GX-6 arrives in a month's time. Thank you for the objective review - it really was interesting.
Congrats on your new Kawai GX6! The Kawai GX grands have a remarkable combination of tone and touch. I know you will be thrilled with it! Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your insights. We appreciate it! :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank you - It's been a 5 month wait so far, but nearly there. So rather looking forward to it.
after revisiting this comparison and blind listening, i find the boston to be much more musical and alive to my ears.
It is certainly a matter of personal preference. Every player will have their own tastes tonally. :)
Three questions: 1) can't that transition from treble to bass be smoothed with a proper tune? I've never heard anything that significant on a Boston piano before, 2) Wouldn't a proper comparison be the Kawai GL40 instead of the GX-2? The GX-2 is $5,000 or so more expensive than the Boston. While the Kawai GL40 and Boston 178 are at similar price points, 3) Can you do some comparisons with Hailun pianos?
We have size limitations at home. I narrowed it to the GL30 (5’5”) and the comparably sized Boston (1” or 2” less). The Kawai won hands down (and these were my two finalists). The GX1 is about $7k+ more than the GL. But in our home, the difference is negligible (but if I was rich, I’d have gotten the GX anyway)l
I'm way down at the low end, with a GL-40, but love it just the same. And, after my experience with Boston and a host of problems Steinway refused to fix, I will never have another one.
May I ask what were the problems?🎹🎶
I would really like to know what problems you faced with Boston, too, as I am very close to buying a 7 year old Boston GP178 PE.
@@suryahitam3588 Sticking keys and the nose in the air attitude of my Steinway dealer. Note please: I have played many other Boston pianos and think the world of them. Given my dealings with rep different Steinway stores over the years, I’d never buy a new Boston. As for the Boston you’re looking at, just have a good piano technician give it a look. If the piano technician gives you a thumbs up, buy it, and don’t give it a second thought. It my problem is with Steinway, not with Boston.
@@The-Friendly-Grizzly Thanks, I really appreciate your taking the trouble of replying. The Boston I am looking at is at a Steinway dealership, so you have certainly given me food for thought.
@@suryahitam3588 Go to a Kawai dealer and give them a try. Pianos, or like stereo systems. Don’t necessarily go by brand or construction. Sit down and play it and if you decide you like it and it’s in your price range take it home.
I wonder if you would choose one over another based on what type of music you are playing?
The different tonal offerings may align better with specific styles of music and playing depending on the preferences of the player. They are both wonderful pianos nonetheless. :)
That's very interesting about fundamental sound vs more complexity from the cabinet. So far, I prefer the Boston, and Stu has just explained why, much better than I could have. I should add that while I adore classical music, I play jazz (and only jazz, though several styles) on my assorted instruments, so clarity matters. The video is still at 41:08. I hope there'll be some introspective Debussy or Grieg. Please give me a reason to pick the Kawai, just for once!
P.S. I don't mind the sudden transition to copper strings, and I love that growl on the Boston. Yes, I can hear a little more openness on the top notes too.
Update: Something is happening on the Boston low mids that I really like, and it's not about the transition. But we are only listening anyway. Playing could alter our choices completely.
37:30 I believe the soundboard for the Boston comes from Steinway. Boston uses Sitka spruce which is the same material going into the Steinways including the D. I don’t know what Kawai uses for their own pianos though but I’m hearing that the Shigerus are also getting Sitka spruce after the Japanese government restricted the amount of Enzo spruce they’re allowed to harvest.
While I believe there was a point when most Shigeru Kawai pianos were using Ezo spruce, the company eventually shifted to reserving that wood for the largest models from the series (due to the restrictions you mentioned). Otherwise, through the GX and SK line, Kawai is using AAA Sitka spruce for their soundboards.
@@MerriamPianos Information from the dealer's website in Taiwan. Boxwood is used on SK5/6/7 and remains are with spruce.
I would be the very proud owner of either of these.
I certainly agree with that sentiment. These are both wonderful instruments! :)
The difference in the quality of the tone when you play the second movement of the Pathétique is remarkable (6:19 and 8:24, respectively for the Boston and the Kawai GX-2). The latter is much richer and more resonant, and I prefer it. The Boston is fine, too, but there is a noticeable difference between the two pianos.
There is no doubt that both of these are very fine instruments. But, personally, I do agree with your sentiment about the Kawai GX2. The soundboards are incredibly resonant and provide a remarkably rich, warm tone. It is a real treat to play and experience! :)
I'd add my enthusiasm for you playing classical music in these comparisons. I find it easier to appreciate the great piano comparisons when I'm at least vaguely familiar with the music!@@MerriamPianos
Мы слушаем не деку и резонанс, а классическое произведение и в данном случае я его "узнаю" в Бостон, чего не могу сказать о Кавай. Кавай отвлекает на не характерный для классики свой тембр.Не чистое звучание, как-будто его грубо строгали рубанком и забыли ошкурить и отполировать. Или сэкономили на этом. Можно конечно ребристость и шероховатость за богатство тембра выдавать, но по такой "кочковатой дорожке" неприятно ехать. И слушать.
Would you mind telling me which piano it’s worth? I am totally blind and will be very helpful especially on this video if you could tell me which videoed piano is playing. Thank you for a thorough review
I think that would be a good idea because I have often been confused in many videos. As he moves from one piano to the other, he could say before he starts to play, "Now I'm moving to the "Such and Such" model."
@@JoeLinux2000 same🎹🎶
I don't know about these two, but the casting of the plate use to be different on the Boston. The Boston had diammond shaped cut outs which I didn't care for because of the tendancy for cast iron to crack where there is a sharp corner. The Kawai plate has circular cutouts which makes more sense to me. These are very nice sounding pianos. These are are something I could go for, but won't. If you've got the bucks to drop, either one would be very nice. The bass on my Pianoteq / DGX is far superior to either of these two pianos. Once you get into the upper register say from the F below middle C upward these pianos have more sparkle. A lot of the difference in tone between the Boston, and Kawai may just be due to hammer voicing. I think the front of the plate where the tuning pins are must be more spacious on the Kawai. Trust me Steinway is supplying nothing for the Boston other than marketing. Boston is a Kawai, that is not as good as genuine a Kawai. It's a piano Steinway dealers can sell that competes in price with Kawai.
I would agree about the voicing. The Boston can be a more dynamic instrument than the one Stu plays here. I don't agree that Boston is a Kawai. The Boston is a Steinway designed piano that is supposed to compete with Yamaha and Kawai at the conservatory level. It's a different design. Is it as good as a Kawai? I don't know. And I do agree there is a lot of marketing behind it but Steinway is big on marketing.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Designed for Steinway by Kawai might be more accurate; or perhaps designed in conjunction with Steinway. A Boston is a Boston which is manufactured by Kawai. You are buying into the myth that Boston is somehow a Steinway. One thing is for sure, the price for a new Steinway and Boston are very far apart. The Boston as Stu documents comes off the same production line as the Kawai's. It's hard to claim it's not a Kawai. Is Cadillac a Chevrolet? Or Lincoln a Ford? In this case the Boston is the Ford and Chevy of the brands.
@@JoeLinux2000 Actually, no. Steinway could have had another manufacturer build their Boston line. Their Essex Line is made by Pearl River now but it used to be made by Young Chang in Korea. They weren't designed by either manufacturer. So, the manufacturer/builder of the piano isn't necessarily who designs and specifies the piano even if some general common bolts and dowels and such are used in different brands. I didn't say a Boston is a Steinway. It's designed by Steinway to be a less expensive, conservatory-grade piano. Susan Kenagy and John Patton designed the Boston piano, not Kawai's engineers. The car analogies do not work. Yamaha owns Bosendorfer and some materials used by Bosendorfer are used by Yamaha and Bosendorfers use Yamaha's Disklavier system (and a lot of tech from their own Ceus system). But Bosendorfer designs and build Bosendorfers and Yamaha designs and builds Yamahas. A Kawai and a Boston have different designs and sound and play quite differently. Feurich vs. Hailun is an interesting relationship because there are common elements in both. But Feurich is different to Hailun even though Hailun builds some Feurichs.
Kawai sounds more complete to me... more body... beautiful playing btw.
Kawai all day long. Wanted to like the Boston but just too bright for me. That GX2 was special. Someone will be lucky to purchase that particular instrument (this from someone who sold pianos for a living).
The warmth and colour that the Kawai GX pianos provide are definitely tough to compete with. That combined with their wonderfully-responsive touch make them an excellent choice for even the most discerning players.
Do a comparison with the GL30 too
Thanks for the suggestion! We will add it to the list and do our best to tackle that comparison for you. :)
Thank you. I value what you have to say and the piano buying world should know. I took delivery of a Kawai GL-30 in September of 2021.
(I ordered it in March of ‘21 - when the big supply chain issues were abounding and scores of ships were lined up to port in California.)
I did some very in depth serious research and played on several. (As you know the GL-30 is priced high in the USA.) I eventually narrowed it to the Boston (closest size to GL30) and the Kawai.
I should add as an aside that I previously owned a Kawai CA98 - a fantastic instrument - unmatched for thousands more. But, we came into some money just under 30,000 USD and there’s nothing like the real thing!
We live in Florida. When my wife heard the GL30 in the showroom, her comment, well on the way home was “It was magnificent”. Our home is smaller than the showroom with an acoustically complimenting ceiling and wall set-up. So we knew it would be great at home. 5’5” (166cm) is the practical limit of size without getting rid of nice stuff.
She did not have the same comment on the Boston. Every Kawai I played in any showroom was always in tune. Not so with the Boston…and in a SS showroom nonetheless! This further spoke to the benefit of Kawai’s action, especially in Florida. Even though we have a very high quality climate controlled house, there are still significant humidity swings during the 12 months. At the time, the Boston was a couple thousand more (Kawai dealers discount) but that was not a game changer. Moreover, I know an SS dealer in an adjoining state (good friend) who figured a way to get me a new Boston at about the same price. I OF COURSE liked the GX2! Neither Mari nor I thought the GX was worth the very large price difference. (I’m only a level 5 pushing 6 pianist who unfortunately loves Chopin, so I get bogged down with a lot of exercises - Hannon, McDowell, scales and Chopin pieces. Mostly arrangements but I am working on Nocturne 9/2 with a slightly dumbed-down LH. I think if I ever master the LH in Beethoven’s Moonlight (with very smooth legatos) then my LH will be ready.
WHOOPS, I’ve really digressed! Sorry!
My instructor, Paul Hoffmann (PaulHoffmann-music.com) look him up; owns a hundred year old, 7’, fully reconditioned SS (the external cabinet not reconditioned) from Hamburg. Even has ivory keys. He’s my age (mid 70’s) but still performs, instructs and judges. He performs on a Kawai Rx7 (made c. 1998) and loves it.
He played my GL30 over the holidays and was ‘blown away’ at the quality. Incredibly wonderful comments - he wouldn’t say if not true. When I told him the price he couldn’t believe it - and that’s the NA price! He kept commenting on the fabulous bass and repeat and recovery speed! He thought the RX had a slightly lighter touch which he preferred, so he would undoubtedly prefer the GX - which is professional. But he thinks that time will make a difference. Mine is played an average of 2 hours or so a day, the RX he plays is already 22+ years old and gets used!
The GL has many of the features of the RX and GX. I learned (very confidentially) from a Kawai US executive that half of the price difference is in the cabinetry; followed by the inner rim. It has a nicer key material too. You can feel it - I like it more than the ivory.
In the final analysis, piano are very subject to personal opinion. We think theGX30 is a fabulously looking shown piece between our open LR and DR. And you KNOW Steinway owners! And to have one (a professional to boot) make positive comments on another brand - and NOT from Germany. That says something.
Another benefit to the GL30, is we got as much piano as practical in our home and, in my opinion, and that of a couple other pianists (our instructor and another SS owner) “It very much outplays its size”.
Thanks for your reply and putting the GL30 vs BOSTON on your future list. I’ve learned it is one of the biggest selling (in the US) Kawai’s that are made in Japan. That says something too!
FYI: I phoned your store a couple years ago to see about getting the GL30 from you. But you could not do it. I like what you do. You and ALAMO out of Texas perform a very valuable service to the art. Thank you.
Ken Peters - central Florida, USA
In one word, clarity vs. richness
when did the gx 2 appear in the market?
The GX line, along with the GX2, were launched by Kawai in 2013 as the successor to the incredibly-successful RX line. :)
@@MerriamPianos thank you !
What is the name of the piece you play second?
I would have to ask Stu as to the piece he is playing! Thank you for tuning in! :)
@@MerriamPianos sure! I find your videos very infotmative and relaxing
The GX2 has it, imho. Like the low base in the GP178 but that's about it. Thanks for this.
Funny. I have a GL30 (5”5”) . BOILED DOWN to the Boston (5’4” I believe) or the GL30. i liked the bass on the GL30 better than even the GP178. I guess these are personal preferences.
I own a Boston grand, so of course I'm biased... LOVE Boston pianos!
Wow I heard a substantial difference in sound quality between the two. My preference is for the Kawai.
They are very distinct from each other in terms of their voice. With that said, the GX2 is a really wonderful instrument with a beautifully warm voice and super-responsive touch thanks to the Millennium III action. :)
@@MerriamPianos Yes, but I just found out the US price of the GX2. It’s near $50k usd. I thought this was a $25k piano. Out of my price range.
Boston only sold through Steinway stores in Australia.
The Boston line is actually Steinway's mid-tier line. Essex is their entry-level line.
Stu, I enjoy listening to your playing. Good stuff! They both sound good, but I think the Kawai has a little more character. Boston sounds a little warmer, Kawai a little brighter. Thank you for your videos
Stu, funny thing, I found the Kawai to be warmer. Both were my final choices. I got the Kawai. Instruments are so very subject to an individual’s touch and hearing. Reading these I notice no one mentioned Yamaha.
非常感谢！
You're very welcome! :)
I *love* your digital piano reviews, but it's great to see a comparison video of two grands like this (even if there's no real comparison here: the Boston is pretty objectively inferior to the Kawai). Please keep these coming!
@Konstantin Ridaya Shows the power of marketing.
The Kawai tone is gorgeous.
O like the Kawai🎹🎶
I menth I🎹🎶
21:43 Wow, the break is awful for an instrument at that price.
The Kawai has a clearer, precise tone. My preference for sure.
The GX2 certainly has a beautiful and musical voice! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Kawai for classicals, and Boston for modern pieces. Thanks for the review as always.
Кавай для "японской" классики, а Бостон для европейской.
The Kawai is a better sounding piano. The GX2 has the Millennium III action, as well.
Hi everyone, I am transitioning from digital to grand piano with some models in mind: GX2-3, C2-3X, Boston 178-193, Hoffman, Scchimel 189 and Estonia 190
This morning I tried the GX3, the Boston 178 and the C3X.
My favorite was the Boston (control, sound quality, balance) followed by Yamaha (precision and clarity ideal for Bach!)
I do not like the Yamaha sound when watching videos, they always seem too bright so that was quite a shock for me ^^
To my surprise I did not enjoy that much the Kawai (which I love from the videos)
Long story short: try the pianos you may be surpized :)
If anyone looks for piano in that price range I would be happy to exchange about impressions
Thanks Stu for all the qualitative videos, they do help a lot!!!
Cheers,
Neyfos
Hi Neyfos! Thank you for tuning in and sharing your insights! It is definitely important to audition pianos in person whenever that is possible. There is something to be said for the correlation between touch and tone that is impossible to experience any other way than playing the piano itself. Thanks and happy playing! :)
this is the first time I hear stu plays classical 🤣
He is a remarkably versatile player! :)
Reconozco que no soy capaz de oir la diferencia.
Hay que ser tan bien pianista como Stu para notarlo, creo.
Discerning between nuanced tonal differences takes time to develop of course. I also find that it is a bit easier to discern when playing an instrument yourself in person.
In my experience, you will pay several thousand dollars more for the Boston. No thanks. I’ll take the Kawai. No brainer.
I found the MRSP: Kawai 41700$ Boston 32100$.
@@michelprimeau4531 those figures are meaningless but dealers will discount
@@michelprimeau4531 Meaningless. Dealers discount the Kawai. That figure for Boston is the selling price.
@Konstantin Ridaya If that's the case, I'll put a Steinway stencil on my piano: "I was in the same piano mover truck than a Steinway." It might double the value of my 150$ piano.
So buying a Boston is basically a fee for being part of the "Steinway family".
When you play like this it's hard to pick either one lol.!!!
Hi! Brent here! I definitely agree. Stu has an incredible ability to make every piano sound like a million bucks! :)
Hi Mr.Harrison, I'm looking to buy a new upright acoustic piano for 5-10K. I'm in my early 40s and started less than years ago to play piano. I intend to buy that piano for my next 40 years so I want to make sure I have the right thing. What am I suppose to check with my limited skill? I'm an early intermediate and can't test a piano to it's maximum potential with a Chopin piece. So far, the only thing that I can test is the break (thanks to you I could put a name to it). I play the chromatic scale at the 3rd octave and pay attention between D and F. I also check for the escapement by playing very softly. So far, all new piano meet the requirements. I check for the sound in general but especially the bass by playing the few piece that I know. I don't care about high level features. A pig with lipstick is still a pig. There are to many piano retailer that talks about what the piano have and not what it does. You can have double felt and sound boxy. You can have agraffe and have an awful break. I need simple thing that I can do to test a piano capacity. So far, I only have the sound and my criteria are low. I have a 40in Lesage 1976 bought for less than 200$ and I've been more disappointed than not when comparing with new instruments. Thanks and sorry for the long post.
If your budget is less than $10k, you don’t have a lot of options for a decent new upright. U-1 or k-300 that’s about it. I’m afraid you’ll be wanting to get a grand pretty quickly.
If I were you, I’ll look into used market to try out many smaller grands, like 70s-80s Yamahas, or 90s 2000 Samick or Young Changs private sales. They’ve been depreciated much already, so you can relatively easily swap out for different ones without taking too much it financially. Your time horizon is 40 years, so be patient, spend time and you’ll soon develop your own taste. Then keep the one that you like the most. I myself kind of did this few years ago, settled with a decent 80s Yamaha C3 that I stumbled upon.
RUclips personalities and definitely all the sales people in the piano shops highlight new features of new grand. But the truth is pianos are unlike cars or computers. For most people, 20-30-40 year old, well-kept pianos are just as good (or sometimes better) in both sound and playability.
@@jisyang8781 Unfortunetely I don't have room for a Grand even a baby grand. I have no luck on the used market. There's only 40 years old Yamaha U-1 for 5000$ in store. Not that it's a bad piano by any means. I'm making sure that I explored all my options. My previous comment is still relevant. How or what do you test a piano to see if it's the right one when you have limited talent to push the piano?
Great comment by the way
@@michelprimeau4531 I hear you. Used market availability depends very much on where you live. In big population centers, for five grands, you can get 70-80s Yamaha G1 private sales. Add $3-5k dealer markup if you get the same thing from dealer as ‘reconditioned’. If you’re far from big city, It may worth the trouble to travel to big city to check listings. Baby grands take up not that much space actually, compared to the floor space needed for an upright when bench pulled out for playing.
If you’re concerned with mechanical aspect that much, you would again need to go with a (baby) grand. There are things inherent to those different piano actions. You’ll have hard time playing soft in almost any upright. Key pivot length is much shorter in uprights (except Steinway), so you’ll have less control when playing close to fallboard. There are things you can change by regulation and voicing. What I mentioned above aren’t the things you can change.
@@jisyang8781 very true🎹🎶
At your level you will be happy with any new Kauai or Yamaha upright. I bought a new small Yamaha upright more than 20 years ago for only $3000, I’m still playing it. My mother in law is a professional pianist, she also likes my piano, she can play with all colors at all dynamic ranges on this piano. If you can’t play softly, the main reason is probably you not the piano. Of course, I can tell the difference between a nice grant and my piano, I would like to own a better piano someday, but I enjoy practicing on my piano and improve my skill. When you are a better pianist you can play for events or volunteer to play for hospitals on grant pianos owned by someone else.
I think Kawai's sound better
While Kawai may sound "better" in this video, the action between the two is vastly different. I believe the Boston has the better action feel than the Kawai. Recent Kawais feel almost superficial action that I would think it is a digital piano if I were blindfolded. While people may say Boston is full of marketing and overpriced (yes it is), I feel the same applies to Kawai's "Millennium" or "ninja" or "Blak" action; it is rather ironic that they have more marketing names than Boston if you think about it. There is nothing superior about Kawai's piano action, in fact I think it is the opposite. Kawai is the only manufacturer in the world that uses ABS Styran in their action, supposedly superior, and yet why does no other piano manufacturer copy it continues to bother me as a sign of defect. Not even a single Chinese manufacturer wants to copy it. If they had only combined Kawai's tone with Boston's action it would be the best mid-range piano today. I play both pianos by the way, the newest versions.
I think in the minds of the people, the action is still made of cheap plastic. Well, it’s more an abs/carbon mix. Nothing to be afraid of 😁. It works just fine and is cheaper and easier to produce. The only thing would be tooling cost. Since carbon is a quite aggressive material, after some time the tolerances would get bigger after time. I would really love to see how their "carbon" parts are produced.
Mason and Hamlin use composite actions in their pianos. As for a Chinese manufacturer, Brodmann uses carbon fiber actions in their Vienna line (upright) and their PE line (grand). I think Yamaha might use composites in the actions of their AvantGrand pianos, although those are not really acoustic pianos but they do have a traditional key action. As for stability, I had the personal experience of going to my piano teacher's studio late last fall after the weather here had turned colder and the air was drier. I immediately noticed that the keys on her Boston were firmer or stiffer to play than just the previous week. I commented on this to her and asked her if she had had the piano regulated. No, (and she had noticed it too) it was just the change in weather and humidity. My Kawai GX-2 does not have those kinds of changes in the feel of the action with the change of seasons. Composite components in the actions have been around for decades and I've read of no widespread reports of any problems with them. They work fine, they're more stable, and there are other factors that are much more important in the tone and enjoyment of a piano than the materials used to build the action.
@Guidussify There are no widespread reports of problems yet... composites have a severe disadvantage in the future when those pianos need repair (how can you fine sandpaper plastic/ABS into proper shape, like wood does?). Mason & Hamlin and Kawai will not tell you this, but the main reason they're not often found in concert venues like Yamaha or Steinway these days is that those hammer shanks will detach/misalign when extremely hard playing. This is basic biochemistry; wood will stick with wood best. Like matter attracts like. No glue can make plastic/ABS stick to wood forever. If that were the case, Paolo Fazioli (he has mechanical engineering degree) would've used plastic/ABS composites in his modern Fazioli action but he did not.
The main reason that Steinways dominate in major concert venues (I go to classical concerts and I've yet to see a Yamaha used in a serious classical performance; in jazz, yes) has absolutely nothing to do with detachment of hammer shanks! I've seen strings break, but I've never heard of an action disintegrating during a performance. And out of interest, I looked at the connection between the wooden hammer shank and the action component. The hinge mechanism that allows the hammer to fly up has a securing pin that passes through the composite material and the base of the shank itself. If there's some glue, it's not the main thing securing the shank to the rest of the action. You're right about there being little likelihood of sanding ABS, because there's no need to do that. It doesn't warp or change shape like wood. @@Pilosoposporo
@Guidussify Yeah, I agree with that but I bet you've never encountered an ABS part that was misaligned with the rest of the action bracket? Which basically requires a total replacement unless by some miracle you can sandpaper plastic/ABS? Or a hammer that got detached from the shank during a live hot concert venue because the wood of the hammer core shrunk while the ABS shank remained constant? You presumed that all ABS parts are created perfect, and therefore has no failure, which in reality is a fallacy. You'd be surprised how many corners are cut in most piano factories.
I think the Boston is better for jazz and the Kawai for classical
I can understand those points of reference. There is something very full and lush about the Kawai GX2's tone that makes it an excellent instrument for solo repertoire, namely classical repertoire. :)
@@MerriamPianosthanks for your response. I’ve been shopping locally in the Bay Area and what I notice at this price point is that both the Yamahas and Boston dampen the notes very quickly which makes it nice for sharp jazz to runs. The dampening on the kawaii seems to let the note ring a bit longer. I mean when not pushing the sustain pedal at all.
Of course the Kawai GX2 won! It costs at least $10k more than the the Boston 178! The comparison should have been between the Boston 178 and the Kawai GL40.
The pricing does vary between different markets. There can also be some fairly big gaps between the MSRP and retail prices of these instruments.
Try the GL. It’s $7500 less than the GX and, unless you’re in a “hall” the difference is insignificant. The GX is nicer, but … $7500! The big difference is #1, the cabinet:about half that price difference. The inner rim, probably 30%+ price difference. Try the GL in person and dide by side to the Boston if you can. Kawai won!
The Kawai sounds better to my ears.
The GX2 is a wonderful instrument with a very beautiful voice! :)
I wonder if that Boston is indicative of what most Boston's sound like.
or was that particular piano not as good as other Bostons
The kawai sounded better in every way.
I got a Kawai in 2021. After much research and comparison, it was between the Boston and Kawai. I found an SS dealer here in Central Florida who has a Kawai store two stores away from his SS store. His sister owns that one (but I think they're secretly partners). It was virtually side-by-side playing. The Kawai won. I prefer classic and that type of music. I play a variety but no sophisticated jazz.
Choose Blüthner
Well Bluthner is in another category... Then you have Steingraeber C Bechstein August Forster etc
@@benedictdsilva3954 High quality german Pianos will be always better (maybe some Steinways are, but 70% the one I liked were Blüthners...
@@benedictdsilva3954 I don’t have tgat kind of money. Moreover, for smaller pianos, say 5’7” or less, Kawai is very hard to beat.
@@cdllc1956 I tried Bluthner n 2018 at the Frankfurt fair... Didnt sound so goos... But the acrylic ones in Indonesia far outbeat the Steinways..
@@kenpeters9807 Im thinking of getting a rebuilt German piano ...
GX2 is now over $46k usd in the US. Is this temporary pandemic pricing? Wtf?
Hi John! Unfortunately, the high demand for pianos, supply chain issues and rising cost of materials and shipping containers due to inflation have led to some fairly substantial price increases. While I do not know first hand as to what the future will hold in terms of pricing, there is a chance that there will be further increases in price industry-wide.
Unlike SS, Kawai dealers discount. You can get it everywhere for $43. A little perseverance and some dealers will go 15%. Yes, $39.9
The GX-2 lists for about ¥2M in Japan, which is like $17K USD. I wonder why there is such a big price difference. No doubt shipping a grand piano overseas is expensive, but more than double the price??
@@stevenqirkle it is because we are in the USA. The GL30 I ordered 2 years ago was about 5 or 6 thousand less in Europe. I could not order one from Europe. If it cost $2000 to ship, I’d been better off. The US gets ripped off constantly. The real measurement would be wholesale cost - and that’s too closely guarded.
But indications are that US dealers pay more than UK retail customers.
It is so interesting, because at first I thought the Kawai was better, but after listening to it again and again I prefer the Steinway, which is brighter and more, let's say, piano-like.
Boston is not a Steinway. It's a Kawai branded as a "Boston" which Steinway dealers sell, because true Steinways are rediculously expensive. As an aside I think Chickerings were made in Boston. Chickering and Mason Hamilin were the true competitors of Steinway. Steinway paid concert artists to play Steinway. That's what established its name.
@@JoeLinux2000 True, it's all about components used, strings, wood. The brands and price are totally irrelevant these days.
@Konstantin Ridaya you know what, it's better to buy a used cheap one and rebuild everything by yourself if you are good with DIY. You have all the info available, everything is feasible apart from the strings.
@Konstantin Ridaya Mason & Hamlin is my acoustic pick, but I own two Chickering grands and play a Yamaha / Pianoteq digital combo.
@@myuncle2 Better yet, just get a good used one that doesn't need much more than a tuning.
そもそも録音の質が違う感じがする。マイクセッティング？空間の違い？
どう考えても、kawaiが有利でbostonが不利だ。ここまで理解できる人は1％くらいだろう。
We try to be as consistent as possible, but, often times, the pianos are placed in different areas of the showroom, which can have a subtle impact on the sonic qualities.
@@MerriamPianos お返事ありがとうございます。私もそうだと思いました。
個人的に思ったのは、このマイクセッティングは、kawaiが有利でbostonが不利だと思います。マイクセッティングによって、bostonは少し音が軽く感じるし、kawaiはよりダイレクトに音を拾えているような気がする。
19:37 Неправильный перевод. Поговорим о бассах, а не о базе.
i hear no difference between the transition.. wtf
Do you mean between the two models? Everyone's ears are different of course.
The part where you transition from treble to bass string “that’s copper, that’s steel “