[PK

By defeating Nyrissa we have brought upon ourselves the anger of a creature much more ancient, powerful, and frightful. We took the Lantern King's favourite toy - and now the full power of his curse comes crashing down on us! We must go back to Golarion and save our Barony!
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Riaan Kruger

[@radiac6818]

I don't personally build Valerie as a Bard, but I think if you give her some bard levels, it makes sense to give her mostly buff spells that don't get a saving throw against them. As such I think I would have taken Mass Cure Light Wounds as her level 5 spell. Nothing wrong with more healing, especially on Last Azlanti.

[@CoredumpedGaming]

You are 100% correct. The important spells I give her are all buffs exactly for that reason. Mass Cure Light Wounds is not a bad suggestion. I tend to overlook those spells as I never use them, but in the absence of a better buff spell choice, it would definitely be a nice pick. Thanks for bringing this up :D

[@radiac6818]

@@CoredumpedGaming People sometimes forget that Mass Cure spells also damage undead, IIRC. So they have a big "swing" in team hit points ours vs theirs in those fights. That said, this is level 20 and there isn't MUCH more fighting to really do, and what there is will largely not be against undead, though the fight in Varnhold is one of the harder ones.

[@CoredumpedGaming]

Yep, very true. I'm also guilty of that as I often only really think about using healing to damage undead when I can already either cast mass heal from memorized spells or from the dozens of scrolls that I purchase more towards the end of the game.
What you're saying is also especially useful given that some classes can even convert their spells into cure spells, so that's added flexibility for those situations

[@Asankeket]

I actually prefer a leveling scheme where it is hard or even impossible to reach the maximum level. That way you always have somewhere to go with your character in terms of new things to learn. Rogue Trader is the same - if we even get to reach max level in that game, it'll be with expansions. Meanwhile, with all the Treasure of the Midnight Isles expansion stuff I've just finished chapter 4 of Wrath of the Righteous at level 19. It's good to get that powerful early, but not so good to reach the cap way before the endgame.

[@CoredumpedGaming]

I understand what you're saying and I think there needs to be a certain amount of balance. I wouldn't have an issue with a system that you might not be able to reach max level depending on your choices during the game or optional content covered (like Rogue Trader for example, I was nowhere near reaching max level) *if* I don't feel like I'm missing out on a big payoff. The problem is that with Pathfinder, a lot of classes have those level 20 special abilities, and it just feels very bad to have a certain character in mind thinking about how cool it will be to have that special ability, sinking in hundreds of hours into the game and then not be able to achieve it or only playing with it for a very very short amount of time. This is also one of my annoyances with guides online, where builds are done only considering a level 20 character with end game gear, even some weapons that you only get like 10 minutes before the game ends.
I have the same issue with the Mythic leveling system in WotR, but that one has more problems in my opinion. You only get your last mythic level right before the final boss battle has always felt wrong to me. But worse than that, is that it feels like you get mythic levels in bursts at times. The first 3 levels in my opinion are very well done, but from there on, I think it should have been better spread. You spend a LONG time without getting another mythic level and then you just get a few in a short sequence.
On the other hand, we have the example of Pillars of Eternity 2, where I felt like I reached max level quite early in the game and then had nothing more to look forward to until the end, so I can definitely understand your point.

[@Asankeket]

@@CoredumpedGaming Fair points indeed. I think the best leveling scheme is one which is more granular but open-ended, like in Rogue Trader, so that late in the game a level doesn't add a lot anymore so things don't get more ridiculous than they already are, but you can still improve, even if only by taking leftover talents not critical to your build. Or like in Elden Ring, where levels past 250 or so don't improve your build but add versatility.

[@CoredumpedGaming]

Agreed, something like that I think is what works best. You feel like you are still progressing without feeling like you're missing out if you haven't reached the absolute final level.
I think the exemplar levels in rogue trader are a good example of such a system, somewhat similar to HLAs (High Level Abilities) from Baldur's Gate 2. You obtain your "max level" in your class at a point in the game you can still enjoy it for a nice while and get some added bonuses from exemplar/HLAs if you continue gaining experience