Almost no doubt in my mind that this change will lead to nerfs - but don't sweat, we actually want this to happen. Hopefully it lets riot address the real problems in Yorick which are not simple numbers changes. I would expect it to hit Yorick Jungle quite hard because we don't benefit that much from this change, and they'll rebalance it accommodating for that extra power in top lane. Also hit up your friends that main Heimerdinger and Naafiri, this change also affects them - Heimerdinger is about to become broken AF
a bug happened to me, i Pressed R in base by accident and maiden spazzed out, stayed between my two inhib turrets and cost us the damn game. has this happened to you?
Happened to me while I was half way to a lane, she walked back to base and got stuck between 2 Nexus turrets. Had to execute myself and stall the game out due to it. But in 200 games in the last 2 seasons it has only happened once. So I hope it's not a big bug.
This change is ABSOLUTELY insane man. I’m so blown away they actually totally removed this interaction. I think it’s fine that E and E ghoul autos works drawing Aggro. I think if they just sorted that, we’d be alright. It’s too gambly to make him tank aggro just because the champ positioned to get hit by walkers or they randomly decide to target the champ. It makes him need to play so far back if he doesn’t want to tank waves. (It’s my understanding the code doesn’t currently differentiate between random attacks and targeted attacks, so any attack was doing it for Dinger, Naafiri, and Yorick. Due to the nature of that and how Yorick ghouls pick their targets, their random autos were drawing aggro because there isn’t a condition in the code to consider if, to put it simply, “Yorick didn’t tell them to attack that champion”
Good suggestion, but better make it that at 6 maiden spawns an additional grave(or goul) every like 8 sec beside her this would actually help yorick so much, case his main problem always was goul genereation in teamfights. that way, lets say at lvl 16 maiden will summon 2 gouls every 3 sec and yorick can constantly poke with them without needing a minions around.
that should be a change post lv 11 rn the biggest issue is that she generates too much lane pressure in low elo and can snowball like crazy from a simple misplay or tp. its why his winrate in the early game is absurd despite NOT having the scaling for it. it also doesnt help that the yorick player cant put any laning fundamentals that other champs can, such as freezing and diving. maiden in lane is a facade: she really isnt that strong, but its stupidly imposing and frustrating to deal with for majority of the league community below emerald. she also currently disables his grave generation passive, while simultaneously putting it on overdrive by spawning ghouls. its not consistent. the opponent should be rewarded in lane by thinning out his ghouls rather than still being punished if they do. the kayle unlocking passive/late game fantasy is a healthier way to approach how a necromancer champ should work in mobas imo. you could even add things like controllable maiden from that point, or other passives like a ghoul bank or shield rend (maybe not that but you get the idea).
@ maybe later in the game but randomly adding in an 8s spawn mechanic doesn't particularly feel rewarding for the yorick player; its kinda just there, similar to naafiri passive. Not that it's bad or anything; it is nice to have when maiden has something like it later on, like at lv 16, but it definitely wouldnt feel satisfying.
I play Yorick with: Grasp; Demolish; Bone plating (or second wind); overgrowth; biscuit delivery; approach velocity and its enough to win a trade againstt a Darius if you start with Doran's shield, due to the sustain
One thing that the ghoul bug fix helps Jungle Yorick is that he isn't abandoned by operators. Champions need changes, whether good or bad, to grow. Look at Tryndamere. He has been fighting with his greatsword and handle for ten years.
Thanks for sharing the good news. Disagree on your proposed fix as it doesn’t fix the feast or famine issue with gouls imo. 😅 Maybe that combined with a charge stacking mechanic to summon on demand.
I like that you're happy to vocalise your disagreance to be honest. Not even people are willing to talk about changes and proposed ideas. Do you mean you would want a Q-stacking/charge system on graves? You would still get the 2-4 ghouls along the maiden cast, and you would still be able to raise graves with Q or E. It's strictly the maiden's ability to automatically summon that would be delayed to level 11 in my proposal.
@@NinetalesOCE delaying mist walker auto-summon to lv11 for quicker auto-graves would defo help newer players who cant CS properly and take away the immense pressure a yorick who's dealing with crash can do too the enemy summoner by spamming E with maiden raising any ghouls that died from it. definitly a healthy change for fighting yorick at least
I agree with the change but I also have a problem with the idea because in fights vs things like Darius it's almost impossible to kill him with out 4 gouls and maiden and without maiden pressure from the gouls he would be able to keep you off wave and prevent you from Qing minions and maybe even passive I think if they do that they should give maiden more damage on proks
@@NinetalesOCE Yes a Q-stacking is what I'm thinking. The existing passive could add stacks as well. This however doesn't fix the frustration players have when facing him to be fair. I'm not a fan of Kayle style progression in general so call me biased. To go out on a limb I might even move his mark to Q instead of E. A large part of the frustration is the reach he has with E and minions. You would then need to add additional forms of survivability and make him more of a true bruiser. I do worry this just turns him into another Q bot. No easy solutions here I can see why the balance team struggles. Your proposal does reduce much of the early game frustration when fighting Yorick but I think it needs to be paired with "what does he get in return" to make it a viable solution. Appreciate you inviting the discussion. -Best
@@njsardo keeping yorick as a bruiser imo is not the way to go. he would need to have additional passives tacked onto the current kit (which a kayle passive would fix ironically). he's a specialist in the juggernaut suit; that shouldnt be the case unless you want to add tank stats based on the amount of summons he has, which is basically old yorick and one of the reasons he got reworked from his binary iteration. doing this change to stop her from using minions to spawn ghouls like crazy would allow other changes that wouldnt have been possible before, while also raising his skill floor. right now, people complain about how you cant interact with him because he can just kill you outright if you mess up, which leads to a massive uninteractive snowball. him permasplitting is a byproduct of his bugged code not allowing him to do anything else other than take objectives and 1v1; that can be cleaned up over time, but you gotta break the 1st frustration before tackling the others.
There's a little nuance that kind of invalidates the clip you showed at 1:09 (even if the concept is correct). On live, ghouls empowered by E do not draw minion aggro. E is coded such that Yorick gets 8 empowered attacks, so if you only have 1 ghoul like what you show in this clip, then you wouldn't draw minion aggro until the mark expires and the attacks stop being empowered. If you throw a 4-stack onto a target, though, then each ghoul will only get 2 empowered attacks before minion aggro triggers. On live you have a small window to duck into a bush before the wave starts pounding you. This is such a massively deserved change. It made Yorick's level 2 especially so weak because even if you've gone through all of the effort to set up your graves and land your skill shot, you still actually lost a lot of trades just because minion aggro is so strong at early levels.
Hey the bugfix is nice but i dont think its gonna change much. And what youre saying with the graves I am disagreeing. The graves arer still super important after lvl 6 even when you have your ult out. the best would be if they bugfix not spawning graves when maiden is attacking the minion cause thats quite annoying not being able to get graves while maiden is out.
it was so annoying that i had to walk into pushes every smal trade ...... finally i can BONK the shiiit out of my enemies and win trades and ... i tottally agree that yorick needs a new passive ... in my opinion, yorick passive is useless and i dont put it in my mind until level 13 .... only at this point i let maiden split and use passive to summon ghouls ... thats my playstyle too shame that passive dont give any raw stats like all champs ( check tryndamere gives ad , olaf gives attack speed and life steal, chogath restore HP and mana , morde gives on-hit , sion zombie mode ,darius bleed and increased AD ,garen has warmog , and list goes on for toooooooooo long ) this is the most useless passive in game
I guess I’m the only one who thinks Yorick is completely fine the way he is. Yeah he has the best lane 6 power spike in the game but that’s fine, before then he is the weakest top laner in the game.
I think Yorick just sucks now compared to most toplaners no matter how many bug fixes he gets. He doesn’t have abilities that allow him to be a tank and had had AD ratios nerfed too many times to build full ad and be useful. Most champions can 1v1 you late game or even mid game if they get a lead and you go bruiser but if you go lethality you can be 1 shot but also don’t have the 1 shot potential or mobility or an assassin. He needs some kind of rework. The only way I have been winning games lately is of the enemy has terrible macro or runs it down very hard when I go yorick top
Tbh I disagree with everything u said Yorick is absolutely one of the best top laners after 6, the best 1v1 duellist in the game. Trinity grudge bloodthirster - haven’t lost a lane in 80 games
@@urekmazino3509 just because no one runs bloodthirster doesn’t mean it isn’t good - lifesteal is one of Yorick’s best traits; hence why conqueror is good. Pair that with an overshield + highest ad item in the game and you have Yoricks biggest power spike
@ ok but you said you have lost top in 80 games. I would like to see your match history or everything you have said is nonsense. Also your elo. Becuase if you are below diamond, it might be believable that you win lane a lot with Yorick, but one you hit emerald-diamond. Leaning becomes quite a bit more difficult because people will not let you just abuse them for free and know how to build and space. You can build literally anything in silver or lower. I could go full ap Yorick, full tank or crit and hard stomp.
Almost no doubt in my mind that this change will lead to nerfs - but don't sweat, we actually want this to happen. Hopefully it lets riot address the real problems in Yorick which are not simple numbers changes. I would expect it to hit Yorick Jungle quite hard because we don't benefit that much from this change, and they'll rebalance it accommodating for that extra power in top lane.
Also hit up your friends that main Heimerdinger and Naafiri, this change also affects them - Heimerdinger is about to become broken AF
a bug happened to me, i Pressed R in base by accident and maiden spazzed out, stayed between my two inhib turrets and cost us the damn game. has this happened to you?
Happened to me while I was half way to a lane, she walked back to base and got stuck between 2 Nexus turrets. Had to execute myself and stall the game out due to it.
But in 200 games in the last 2 seasons it has only happened once. So I hope it's not a big bug.
Never release maiden mid from base and you should be fine
The f exact same !!!
Same here. Unless you are close to winning/losing the only solution I could find was to die and summon new maiden outside the base
This change is ABSOLUTELY insane man. I’m so blown away they actually totally removed this interaction. I think it’s fine that E and E ghoul autos works drawing Aggro. I think if they just sorted that, we’d be alright. It’s too gambly to make him tank aggro just because the champ positioned to get hit by walkers or they randomly decide to target the champ. It makes him need to play so far back if he doesn’t want to tank waves.
(It’s my understanding the code doesn’t currently differentiate between random attacks and targeted attacks, so any attack was doing it for Dinger, Naafiri, and Yorick. Due to the nature of that and how Yorick ghouls pick their targets, their random autos were drawing aggro because there isn’t a condition in the code to consider if, to put it simply, “Yorick didn’t tell them to attack that champion”
Holy canolli the production of your whole setup is much better. Hell yeah man good on you
Im bricked up baby 😊
My idea for a change would be that if there are 3 or more enemy champs nearby it takes two autos to kill a ghoul
Hey, love your yorick guides. Could you do a full build vid. on lethality yorick?
Had a few request for this so definitely will!
Good suggestion, but better make it that at 6 maiden spawns an additional grave(or goul) every like 8 sec beside her this would actually help yorick so much, case his main problem always was goul genereation in teamfights. that way, lets say at lvl 16 maiden will summon 2 gouls every 3 sec and yorick can constantly poke with them without needing a minions around.
that should be a change post lv 11
rn the biggest issue is that she generates too much lane pressure in low elo and can snowball like crazy from a simple misplay or tp. its why his winrate in the early game is absurd despite NOT having the scaling for it. it also doesnt help that the yorick player cant put any laning fundamentals that other champs can, such as freezing and diving. maiden in lane is a facade: she really isnt that strong, but its stupidly imposing and frustrating to deal with for majority of the league community below emerald.
she also currently disables his grave generation passive, while simultaneously putting it on overdrive by spawning ghouls. its not consistent. the opponent should be rewarded in lane by thinning out his ghouls rather than still being punished if they do.
the kayle unlocking passive/late game fantasy is a healthier way to approach how a necromancer champ should work in mobas imo. you could even add things like controllable maiden from that point, or other passives like a ghoul bank or shield rend (maybe not that but you get the idea).
@@Raanth I understand, but spawning 1 goul every 8 sec is far less opressive then what we have rn. So I think this change will help
@ maybe later in the game but randomly adding in an 8s spawn mechanic doesn't particularly feel rewarding for the yorick player; its kinda just there, similar to naafiri passive.
Not that it's bad or anything; it is nice to have when maiden has something like it later on, like at lv 16, but it definitely wouldnt feel satisfying.
I play Yorick with: Grasp; Demolish; Bone plating (or second wind); overgrowth; biscuit delivery; approach velocity and its enough to win a trade againstt a Darius if you start with Doran's shield, due to the sustain
One thing that the ghoul bug fix helps Jungle Yorick is that he isn't abandoned by operators.
Champions need changes, whether good or bad, to grow.
Look at Tryndamere. He has been fighting with his greatsword and handle for ten years.
Definitely agreed! It's nice to be looked at once in a while.
Thanks for sharing the good news. Disagree on your proposed fix as it doesn’t fix the feast or famine issue with gouls imo. 😅 Maybe that combined with a charge stacking mechanic to summon on demand.
I like that you're happy to vocalise your disagreance to be honest. Not even people are willing to talk about changes and proposed ideas. Do you mean you would want a Q-stacking/charge system on graves? You would still get the 2-4 ghouls along the maiden cast, and you would still be able to raise graves with Q or E. It's strictly the maiden's ability to automatically summon that would be delayed to level 11 in my proposal.
@@NinetalesOCE delaying mist walker auto-summon to lv11 for quicker auto-graves would defo help newer players who cant CS properly and take away the immense pressure a yorick who's dealing with crash can do too the enemy summoner by spamming E with maiden raising any ghouls that died from it. definitly a healthy change for fighting yorick at least
I agree with the change but I also have a problem with the idea because in fights vs things like Darius it's almost impossible to kill him with out 4 gouls and maiden and without maiden pressure from the gouls he would be able to keep you off wave and prevent you from Qing minions and maybe even passive I think if they do that they should give maiden more damage on proks
@@NinetalesOCE Yes a Q-stacking is what I'm thinking. The existing passive could add stacks as well. This however doesn't fix the frustration players have when facing him to be fair. I'm not a fan of Kayle style progression in general so call me biased. To go out on a limb I might even move his mark to Q instead of E. A large part of the frustration is the reach he has with E and minions. You would then need to add additional forms of survivability and make him more of a true bruiser. I do worry this just turns him into another Q bot. No easy solutions here I can see why the balance team struggles.
Your proposal does reduce much of the early game frustration when fighting Yorick but I think it needs to be paired with "what does he get in return" to make it a viable solution. Appreciate you inviting the discussion. -Best
@@njsardo keeping yorick as a bruiser imo is not the way to go. he would need to have additional passives tacked onto the current kit (which a kayle passive would fix ironically). he's a specialist in the juggernaut suit; that shouldnt be the case unless you want to add tank stats based on the amount of summons he has, which is basically old yorick and one of the reasons he got reworked from his binary iteration.
doing this change to stop her from using minions to spawn ghouls like crazy would allow other changes that wouldnt have been possible before, while also raising his skill floor. right now, people complain about how you cant interact with him because he can just kill you outright if you mess up, which leads to a massive uninteractive snowball. him permasplitting is a byproduct of his bugged code not allowing him to do anything else other than take objectives and 1v1; that can be cleaned up over time, but you gotta break the 1st frustration before tackling the others.
Have they fixed large jungle camps not dropping graves? Got in twice in a ranked game earlier and it fucked my tempo up for grubs.
You have to be close enough for the graves to spawn
FINALY RIOT! NOW BRING BACK TWISTED TREE LINE!!!
Yes, I agree that the level 6 spike of Yorick is way too oppressive.
Yeah, but you’re the weakest top lane champion before 6 in lane
@MoonGoddess123 Yeah I guess the oppression goes both ways. Too weak pre-6, too strong post-6.
@@nimrod06 perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Besides you still lose a lot of matchups after 6 - sett irelia renekton WW Jax
There's a little nuance that kind of invalidates the clip you showed at 1:09 (even if the concept is correct). On live, ghouls empowered by E do not draw minion aggro. E is coded such that Yorick gets 8 empowered attacks, so if you only have 1 ghoul like what you show in this clip, then you wouldn't draw minion aggro until the mark expires and the attacks stop being empowered. If you throw a 4-stack onto a target, though, then each ghoul will only get 2 empowered attacks before minion aggro triggers. On live you have a small window to duck into a bush before the wave starts pounding you. This is such a massively deserved change. It made Yorick's level 2 especially so weak because even if you've gone through all of the effort to set up your graves and land your skill shot, you still actually lost a lot of trades just because minion aggro is so strong at early levels.
the rework you’re talking about is crazy bad yorifk isn’t broken now
I appreciate the feedback! You're not alone with your thoughts there, everyone is different i suppose!
Fixed one bug and new season created a dozen more. Until they fix Teleport yorick isn't playable in lane.
They fixed it
Hey the bugfix is nice but i dont think its gonna change much. And what youre saying with the graves I am disagreeing. The graves arer still super important after lvl 6 even when you have your ult out. the best would be if they bugfix not spawning graves when maiden is attacking the minion cause thats quite annoying not being able to get graves while maiden is out.
it was so annoying that i had to walk into pushes every smal trade ...... finally i can BONK the shiiit out of my enemies and win trades
and ... i tottally agree that yorick needs a new passive ... in my opinion, yorick passive is useless and i dont put it in my mind until level 13 .... only at this point i let maiden split and use passive to summon ghouls ... thats my playstyle
too shame that passive dont give any raw stats like all champs ( check tryndamere gives ad , olaf gives attack speed and life steal, chogath restore HP and mana , morde gives on-hit , sion zombie mode ,darius bleed and increased AD ,garen has warmog , and list goes on for toooooooooo long )
this is the most useless passive in game
swap yorick's ult and passive
I guess I’m the only one who thinks Yorick is completely fine the way he is. Yeah he has the best lane 6 power spike in the game but that’s fine, before then he is the weakest top laner in the game.
I think Yorick just sucks now compared to most toplaners no matter how many bug fixes he gets. He doesn’t have abilities that allow him to be a tank and had had AD ratios nerfed too many times to build full ad and be useful. Most champions can 1v1 you late game or even mid game if they get a lead and you go bruiser but if you go lethality you can be 1 shot but also don’t have the 1 shot potential or mobility or an assassin. He needs some kind of rework. The only way I have been winning games lately is of the enemy has terrible macro or runs it down very hard when I go yorick top
Tbh I disagree with everything u said Yorick is absolutely one of the best top laners after 6, the best 1v1 duellist in the game. Trinity grudge bloodthirster - haven’t lost a lane in 80 games
@ ok, what is your ign. Let’s er this build and how it’s been working for you. I haven’t seen anybody running Blood Thirster 3rd
@@urekmazino3509 just because no one runs bloodthirster doesn’t mean it isn’t good - lifesteal is one of Yorick’s best traits; hence why conqueror is good. Pair that with an overshield + highest ad item in the game and you have Yoricks biggest power spike
@ ok but you said you have lost top in 80 games. I would like to see your match history or everything you have said is nonsense. Also your elo. Becuase if you are below diamond, it might be believable that you win lane a lot with Yorick, but one you hit emerald-diamond. Leaning becomes quite a bit more difficult because people will not let you just abuse them for free and know how to build and space. You can build literally anything in silver or lower. I could go full ap Yorick, full tank or crit and hard stomp.
@@urekmazino3509 is it nonsense though.. bloodthirster is yoricks best item mathematically - and in game. Try it out
comment for the algo!