Ginetta's Forgotten LMP1 Program
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2023
- The LMP1 category has featured some truly legendary cars, that'll be remembered forever by motorsport fans around the world. However, one manufacturers effort seems to been very quickly forgotten.
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"Posting random Ginettas until big daddy Jimsa man returns to defeat the evil empire" will always circulate in my head when reading this brand name
A fellow r/weccirclejerk enjoyer as well!
In weccirclejerk we trust
👍🤠👍
Holy hell
Has this one been posted yet?
I was rooting so hard for Ginetta back then. Such an incredible underdog effort. It's odd in the racing world, but they were refreshingly transparent about their struggles, and I really appreciated that.
As someone who has been lucky enough to work on several factory efforts it always amused me when the OEMs got super weird around failures, anything to remove blame from the parent company, Including flat out lying about what went wrong :P
Let be real they joining Lmp1 was wrong decision if they waiting joining LMH and development cars at least they have results mind not better like Alpine
It's the first Ginetta you see when you walk into the factory! Great video 😄
Hello! Been very busy lately, I've only just gotten round to having a look at the comments, so apologies. However, thanks for commenting on the video, and I'm delighted to hear that you enjoyed it 😃. Would be great to work together on a video, if you or the company so wished. 😀👍
You have to admire Ginetta. While their LMP1 program went funny, their customer racing and racing academy is thriving, helping young future racers to develop in racing environment.
Working with their LMP3 car... Can't really confirm that...
Their LMP3 is by far the best looking, but apparently nobody runs it so I guess it's either too expensive or not good?
Are we only saying that because of Lando Norris? 😅 He cut his teeth racing Ginettas.
@@DanielHarveyDyerfew have popped up in the German prototype cup but not really making much headway against the masses of ligier and duqueines
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos He did indeed! In a field that also had Jamie Chadwick, James Kellett, Jack Mitchell, and Billy Monger!
I love hearing about rather obscure race cars, no matter if they're successful or not.
Here are a couple of other programs that I think deserve deep dives:
1. The Dodge Viper Competition Coupe ALMS GT2 programs run by Woodhouse & Prime Time Race Group
2. The Robertson Racing Doran Ford GT-R
And finally...
3. The Al Solaroli Motorsports / CET Racing scam...er...2007 ALMS program.
I would love a video about the Robertson gt because I can never seem to find information about it
another is the nissan dpi, ginetta gt3, glickenhaus gt3, holden monaro n-gt
I used to live down the road from United Autosport & Ginetta. I knew somebody who worked there during this time. I must say your research is spot on, almost sounds like you have taken first hand accounts.
It's worth saying though that although it does seem like a shit storm from the outside the team kept professional throughout, believing in their design. Folks at the factory were so frustrated that they couldn't go racing because some suits hadn't signed some cheques on the other side of the world.
Ginetta was on a shoestring budget and no sponsorship. They only ever tested at RAF Church Fenton so the fact that car got anywhere near a world championship is a miracle.
One thing worth noting is that the Michelin tyres were a carry over from the manufacturer LMP1 years, so they were designed for 1000bhp electric four wheel drive systems. The Ginetta could never get the tyres to work properly, they just never had the money or testing to get to grips with it so each weekend it was a complete unknown. In Fuji they couldn't get the fronts up to temperature, but Bahrain was there best chance of a result not only due to the BoP but the hot track temperature helping with this.
Brilliant video, I admire all the hard research gone into it.
It’s always, always, ALWAYS frustrating to hear about a promising program effectively get a kick in the balls because some Sally on the other side of the world forgot to send an email.
Ginetta gave LMP1 a go. It may not have been the most successful racing project, but AT LEAST THEY TRIED. And, perhaps more importantly, when things didn't go to plan, they knew when to stop, without losing the company. Motorsport is riddled with tales of people who didn't know when to quit, and left many loyal workers unemployed as a result...
Live to race another day!
ByKolles: "I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that.."
Super video as always, weird how open Ginetta were about their issues and refreshing they weren't just talking in marketing spiel
Would be great to have a delve into the ByKolles and Aston Martin LMP1 adventures.
ByKolles is still there so we have to wait.
But Aston Martin would be interesting, especially with them reactivating their LMH program
ah yes, ByKolles...run by the grifter who tried to blackmail Toto Wolff and whose stewardship in any dying F1 team in the 2000s signaled certain death for that team. Colin Kolles and that whole operation do not deserve even the slightest bit of oxygen towards their "efforts" and I feel bad by the drivers that are deluded to racing for that moron.
The ByKolles video is done and it's over an hour of laugh-cry-cringe. It's glorious.
Soon as I saw this car in Forza Motorsport, I immediately picked it up. It's so far my favorite car in the entire game
It's a nice surprise how much love the car is getting on Forza! We have the car available on our SimTrack simulator if you fancy trying it out
If anyone was interested in why it wasn't the 2016 F1 Manor. The Virgin / Marussia F1 entry between 2010 and 2014, with John Booth and Grahem Lowden was run by this Manor team, but had sold the naming rights for sponsorship, think sauber being called Alfa Romeo. They team got sold at the end of 2014 cause the hybrid engines cost more than a Lap Dance from Queen Elizabeth II in her prime The new owner Stephan Fitzpatrick only kept the Manor name, but not the relationship with the original Manor team. Then it went Backrupt, which I bet Stephan is regretting now as that team would be worth £400/£500 million.
What I'm more surprised about is one of your more raving sexual fantasies is Queen Elizabeth II in her prime doing lap dancing.
Ginetta's LMP1 program probably gives Nissan's 2015 program and Aston Martin's 2011 program a run for its money in term of terrible luck.
Still love that Ginetta and Nissan prototypes.
Tbf fair to Ginetta, they got the furthest distance out of the 3 cars with 283 laps, Nissan got 234 and the AMR got 4. And actually got a car classified in the final results unlike the Nissan and AMR.
@@maxb148 That is true. Ginetta has that advantage.
The Ginetta just had poor luck and a horrible engine, while the other 2 were fundamentally flawed from conception
Now now, don't insult Ginetta by comparing them to those programs. At least the Ginetta worked by the time the 2nd season came around.
@@featherfinfilmsDefinitely Aston but not really for Nissan
Back in 2021 remember visiting sliverstone museum on the day of a random test and saw the ginetta LMP1 pushing round the circuit it is strange how much they continued to run the car.
Who can forget the r/wec car
the r/weccirclejerk car
By far one of the best looking prototypes in recent memory, that blue and white stripe look for Le man's 😘👌
Proper cars! Made in Yorkshire! Got a real soft spot from Ginetta, they're made just up the road from where I live :)
Ey up!
@@ginettatv 👋👋👋 hello from Leeds haha!
I was at the Celebration event, had no idea about the brand before that day. Thanks for the history lesson on that weird LMP1 car I hadn't seen before.
There definitely two scoops of British wit and sarcasm in this deep dive. Love it
Glad to hear about this car after playing it on Forza recently
it should be said that the decision for audi and porsche to leave the wec was parcialy a cost saving measure as a indirect result of the VolksWaggen Diesel Gate scandal...
Great video about the Ginetta LMP1 programme I forgot about thier project. I think a good video would be about the Mini WRC program which actually had a lot of promise but the issue betwen prodrive and BMW curtailed this.
I like that they are proud of that car and run it on showruns
Its so cool
I remember seeing the car briefly at Silverstone. It certainly looked the part!
Great video! Love your attitude towards the car and you get bonus points for including the footage of Mike Simpson moonwalking through the pit garage. I was watching the video hoping you would drop that in. Nice one. By the way the Jaguar GT car has appeared in Forza Motorsport but only in the Xbox 360 era FM3 and FM4.
Thank you for that video!!
The Ginetta is one of my favourite lmp1 cars.
Would be nice to see a video of the Dome S102 and the Pescarolo 03 in the future.
Always my favourite fact about the Pescarolo 03 is that the chassis for it was actually one of the 2011 Aston Martin AMR One chassis. Weird that the other chassis also made the 2012 LM grid as the Deltawing
I didn't know anything about the car and had seen it a few times when playing the new Forza. Great vid and thanks for sharing their history.
A friend of mine worked on the LMP1 project and told me numerous stories about how bad it was. He told me it had serious reliability issues even testing on the aerodrome and was wind erosion slow even doing that! Due to the Covid pandemic and haemmoraging money on the programme in general Ginetta started laying staff off and his name was on that rather sad list considering he was a new father at the time. One major thing that stuck in my mind about what he told me was just how bad their quality control was and how they were constantly working with dreadfully substandard parts and wildly unrealistic time frames to complete the work. A programme such as this deserved so much better and without a doubt would have had a different outcome if given the proper time and attention it so rightfully deserved. Shame really.
Learned about the existence of this machine cus of the new Forza Motorsport, incredibly fun to drive
Glad you like it!
Honestly happy to see it in the game and proud them taking the balls to even bring it demonstration laps and in a game
Really love its black and orange livery version of this car its strange how Fortza remembers what they are back them putting Obscure cars in a racing game
I was absolutely rooting for them back in the day, I really loved their effort. Sadly it never really developed into a successfull story
Thanks for making the video. I greatly enjoyed.
can you do an episode on the late 80s and early 90s version of AVUS for Street Track Failures?
Man this is a nice underdog story, privateers trying to fight and make a name for themselves, good on you Ginetta!
Thanks, it was a good run! We'll see what the future holds
@@ginettatv WOAH IT'S GINETTA THEMSELVES! Love the work you guys put into Le Mans! I wish you good luck in your valuable contributions in the racing world
I was there at their supposing debut. Was my first WEC race as media and photographer. In total we had 2 pictures of that car. Mine, which was a little bit on the blurry side, and a colleague. It's a shame how it went, but there are a lot of those stories similar
Amazing video there. Searched a lot of info about them but here found even more. Such a nice project. Wishing a comeback with the new rules.
I think that Leo Russells issue behind the safety car was fairly easy to nail down. Ericsson hit him
This was really good as usual, I’d like to see a similar video on this for the SMP BR1. Any of the other privateer LMP1 cars really I’d like to see videos on.
The ByKolles would be a long but very interesting video with how that car went
Technically the current Vanwall in WEC is a ByKolles effort because the full team name is: “Floyd Vanwall ByKolles” so I reckon when that project gets the axe a video could be in the making. (I hate to say it, but it just looks impossible to be a privateer in Hypercar at the moment. You’re either a customer or a manufacturer.)
Great vid as always. Have been into WEC for quite some time now but I'm still learning and it's fantastic to learn about wec history with your videos. Keep it up mate!
Great video as always. I was there at silverstone in 2019 and was on the on the outside of luffield when the ginetta lost its wheel
Great video!
24:57 THATS ME! I was flagging from Alpha station right by the SZ board for this race. Last race before the world came to a halt. Also the WEC debut for the Corvette C8.R
The car does live on in a small way though, as it's now in the new Forza Motorsport which is neat
There's also a very high quality version of it in assetto corsa, its quite a joy to take around the nurburgring
@@johnsullivan937 We also have it on our sim facility that's open to anyone!
its fast in forza. Plus you can race it around Silverstone at night. very fun.
Literally amongst my favourite British brands. I do hope they can actually return to Le Mans in the future
A 30 minute TyDye video? Time to get my popcorn!
Jokes aside, great video as always! The "dark age" of WEC always tingles my brain a bit. Hopefully you will do a video on the BR1 Engineering LMP1 as well.
I love Ginetta cars since I have witnessed the brutality of the G55 GT3 at the British GT round at the Nürburgring in 2012. That thing war awesome and I also love the G55 GT4 for it's beauty. I also enjoy driving this car in various simulations, yet the gearing of the car in Assetto Corsa Competizione is a real pain especially on the Nordschleife 😅
Love an in-depth video about hardly-raced racing cars. Subscribed!
Great to hear the Ginetta is in the new Forza. I always did think they got dicked around by the ACO too much, especially when they got shafted by the 'only 4 LMP2 manufacturers' rule that came in.
As for others, how about the Strakka Dome S103 and/or the HPD ARX-04b?
I hope, sometime in the future, Ginetta comes back with these new Hypercar rules
great video!
17:15 TRANS AM MENTIONED
We need a video on the Rocketsports Jaguar (I'm not likely to do it)
Ginetta: We want boosted power to compete, we're barely as fast as LMP2's
Mecachrome: No
I love how that's essentially how it went down.
Its gonna be an interesting season for Alpine fans as guess what's in their LMDH car...
Well once everyone knew the money was never arriving from China, I guess Mecachrome just stopped developing the engine for free.
This is why you don't put your GP2 engine into a LMP1.
Had Ginetta just waited for five more years, we might have even more cars on the Hypercar Grid right now
what a great video
Do you know who didn’t forget about Ginetta’s LMP1 program? The developers of Forza motorsport.
Loving the amount of people learning about Ginetta through Forza!
8:50: Fast forward to 2023 and insert the name Vanwall. So slow they qualify behind some of today's LMP2s. You'll be creating videos in a couple of years about the demises of both Glickenhaus and Vanwall.
The juxtaposition from footage of Fuji to Shanghai is wild. The air in china is literally visible lol
Thank you for making this video I always womdered about this car I thought it never raced entirley at least it saw some track action even if it was minimal ashame it did't have the right customer team to help develop and make the car competitive
Now that I think about it, I also think you could do a series focusing on programs that ran afoul of the law. The aforementioned Al Solaroli program is just one example, but there's also
the Whittington Bros.
Scott Tucker & Level 5 Motorsports
and Greg Loles & Farnbacher-Loles.
Hope you can talk about glickenhaus now they quited wec would be relevant!
Me seeing the stats for it: "Oh cool, not bad"
Me after hearing who made the V6: "Oh no..."
If you've watched F2 for as long as I have, you'll know why I feel this way and also why am not quite confident with Alpine's Hypercar program so far.
In the vein of forgotten Endurance racers that have been featured in the new Forza Motorsport game, one I would be interested in learning more about would be the Nissan R391 LMP900 from the late 90s. As far as I can tell it was a rebody of the R390 GT1 car chassis and only competed at a few events in 1999. I imagine the history of its development and eventual scrapping could be quite interesting.
The Picchio DP2 and its Alfa Romeo 8C-based stillborn replacement would be an interesting project for you.
Other semi-obscure stuff would be the Strakka-Dome S103 LMP2, or the Pescarolo-Dome S102.5 LMP1 and the Pescarolo 03 LMP1, all three cars contributed to the downfall of their respective teams.
Strakka is now kaput, Pescarolo is technically not kaput anymore, but Henri himself has got nothing to do with the current revival attempt of the team, as they've been rumored to have been trying and secure funding to buy and race a Peaugeot 9X8 LMH next year, but it's unlikely it'll happen.
It's not like Ginetta bypassed LMP2 completely and going straignt to LMP1 by choice - that category has fixed list of manufacturers authorized by the FIA to build cars for these regulations. Since 2017 Dallara, Oreca, Onorak/Ligier and Riley/Miltimatic have been the designated manufacturers for the LMP2 cars as well as the basis for the Daytona Prototype International (DPi) and later LMDh cars in the IMSA Sportscar Championship. From the 2024 WEC season LMP2 cars will no longer be permitted (except for the 24H of Le Mans), but the LMP2 derived LMDh cars (to which most LMP2 teams will mostly gravitate) will still compete in the top Hypercar class.
great video mate commented for algroithm
Me playing Forza Motorsport.
Wow, what's this cheap LMP 1 car, and then this video saves the day
They were helped by the regular changes of EoT made by the ACO / FIA to try and boost the privateers' performance. Non hybrid cars got more fuel, which massively helped the turbo powered car (more so than the N/A rebellion). This made the AER version comparison to the original one better than it really was. The car never could really get the tyres working and remained largely uncompetitive sadly.
Still, it was a lovely project, a beautiful car (especially in its original blue livery IMO) and a fan favourite.
I remember there were some talks about privateer entries running Ginettas as "grandfathered" LMP1 cars in the first year of the LMH category. A shame that didn't happen, I think it definitely could've been competitive there.
Also would it maybe be worth covering the Gallardo GTE car at some point? It's very obscure and I couldn't really find anything on its competitive history, outside of the 2011 12 hours of Sebring. I'm not sure if it raced anywhere else.
Have found this, it’s called the Reiter Gallardo LP560 GT2. Best I can tell it took part in 3 races and a couple test sessions
Man... wish they have a chance to build lmdh chassis
same
2:01 that reaction time
I know it would be a terrible series because half of the time would be spent with 0 cars on track but I would love to see a series of the G60-LT-P1, the AMR-One, the CLM P1/01 and the GT-R LM Nismo arguably the 4 worst LMP1 cars in recent years (ok the AMR was in 2011) with a staggering 1 classified finish over 13 entries, 1 DSQ and 1 non-classified. In total over the 13 entries they did 1834 laps at Le Mans with an average of 141.1 laps each or 35.5% of the distance record each. The longest a car went in one race was surprisingly the Ginetta with 283 laps and the least was 2 with the AMR-One (and in total 6 laps between both cars).
Friendly reminder that the GT-R LM Nismo, with its funky hybrid setup and car design, completed more laps in 1 race then the AMR-One did in two of the only races it did WITHOUT a Hybrid...
I used to work next to Ginetta in Leeds lol
i prefer these longer videos ngl
I would say that one of, if not the, reasons it's in the new Forza is because they couldn't get the rights to any other LMPs, with the WEC licence presumably including licences to the cars as well.
The cars aren't exclusive as is evidenced by the GR010 in GT7, just the "24 Hours Of Le Mans" and WEC name.
Can we talk about that move at 2:01, my god haha
interesting you mention kubica not driving after testing, but id imagine at that point he was committed to trying to get back into F1, iirc he joined williams as reserve driver the next year and didnt want a double role at that moment
Ngl i like the Ginetta, there even is a GTA 5 version of the Ginetta
There is?
@@ginettatv its a mod but yeah
ruclips.net/video/nJmMenB45Xk/видео.htmlsi=7PagRndbojfLg-fb
if I'm not mistaken, I do believe Automobilista 2 has the Ginetta LMP1 in it, or at least and incredibly similar prototype to it.
quite the interesting WEC endeavor I must say
31:07 thats how i got reminded of this thing existing even! Out of the P1 cars available, this one requires TC given it's turbo lag and doesn't like taking corners either. I had more success with the toyota and Audi
I find the claims of the LMP1 program budgets suspect given people always cite a single year of the program budgets from one factory entry that included the construction of a wind tunnel that is still in use to this day. It sounds more like marketing then anything resembling the actual budgets given Porsche, Audi and Toyota would not have sustained a 100M/year program as long as they did given the level of marketing WEC is worth, what the purse was and level of sponsorship they pulled in. If that was the case, all three would have jumped in to be F1 engine suppliers in 2026 without giving it a second thought instead of Toyota not even trying and Porsche not entering after they couldn't buy a team.
Could you do a video on the cancelled Ferrari F50 GT1 car? It never got a chance to race as far as I know but it should be a great video
I guess we could say it's a bit of irony that forza added this car about a week ago to their game
It was forgotten...UNTIL
This is why I’m the new Forza Motorsports I chose the ginetta
1:39 A small British company having financial financial difficulties, hmm I've heard that before but I can't quite place my finger on where 😂🤣
As unfortunate as things were Ginetta's prototypes are a presence I'll always enjoy seeing
Are you going to do a review of this year's WEC season?
Hope u can do the Nissan LMP Program
The does seem to be one little bit of undercurrent that isn;t covered here - LMP3 and Ginetta's apparent pissing-off of the higher levels of the ACO
When the LMP3 class was announced, it was autumn and it was expected that the first cars (from ligier and Dallara) would be available towards the end of the next season. Ginetta somehow managed to get one ready for april in about a 6-month turnaround for the start of that season. It basically wasn't at all ready when it launched - for example, for the first race at silverstone they needed a demister for the windscreen. this took the form of a 12v travel hairdryer duct-taped to the dash. Mid-season, IMSA (was it still ALMS then? i forget what actual year all this was) did a test with one as an intended evaluation of the class as replacement for LMPC, and it went so badly they ruled it out and didn't come back to the class for a couple more years. Graham Goodwin from Dailysportscar spent the whole season describing the car very charitably as 'Very New, /Very/ New' all through the season, as it failed to get consistently up into a performance window that was sufficiently faster than GTE to get some actual class separation.
This seems to have not made them any friends at the ACO. All LMP3 powertrains, though Nissan-badged have to be bought through Oreca, and they more or less stopped answering Ginetta's calls. It's also worth noting that during the course of that year that United Autosport who are based practically next door, entered a major LMP3 partnership with Ligier. Once the other manufacturer's cars turned up, everyone quickly moved on (and ginetta effectively left LMP3, stuck a different engine in the cars they had, and used them for a 1-make series).
Meanwhile, the new LMP2 regs were going to make it into a semi-spec series with only 4 nominated manufacturers allowed. Ginetta applied to be one, but weren't approved, it's hard to imagine that the shambolic LMP3 rollout wasn't a factor.
they basically only went into P1 because it was more or less their only remaining option to do anything at le mans, and even then it's hard to deny the people at the top half-arsed it, especially given Tomlinson wasn't willing to spend his own money on an actual factory team..
Where did you get the background music from it's a great flow?
Worked with the Ginetta LMP3 cars this year and honestly, they are the biggest shitboxes I ever worked with. Lacking behind the Ligier and Duqueine in EVERY aspect.
Hello, how are you? I love your videos. I have a question. Do you have in mind at some point to talk about the bad and the good that Bykolles had as a program in the lmp1?
did they ever had a "good" in their whole history?
@@marselooo good point xD
I did a video on them a while ago but it's in need of an update (spoiler alert: they were never good)
Well if we're talking about the LMP1 era and dismal failures, surely the Nismo GTR LMP1 has to be covered at some point. A wild concept of being front engined and front wheel drive hybrid missed multiple rounds before Le Mans due to dailing front crash structure tests and then at le mans, the hybrid system failed so it was FWD and down on power compared to the Tpypta, Audi and Porsche. 2 of the 3 retired from mechanical issues and the 3rd while it finished, wasn't clasified due to not completing the required laps to be clasified (it was 153 laps down on the winning 919). Thus they were not only beaten by all 3 of the LMP1H teams but also by both Rebelions runing a non hybrid LMP1
Please do an explainer on the Jaguar F-Type GT4 program 🙏🏻
Do a video on the Nissan Dpi programe pls!!!
No one knows how to get in their own way like the WEC. Even in F1 you can get all the teams together to grant an exception to most F1 sporting rules (not the parent FIA ones though) and they could have done the same thing to smooth over some of these issues. And not allowing one off issues in a class that was dying... insanity.
if i may suggest one program, i'm not sure it is super obscure but i always had a soft spot for the pescarolos, especially the 2004 and 2005 ones
How about a video on the Cadillac Northstar LMP?
How about a video on either Ladas go at WTC, or MGs go at prototypes in the early 00s
I feel like i've seen the Panoz Esperante GT2 car a lot but I've never heard much of it? Is this something you know a lot about? Was it good or bad? It might be the next car for this documentary series
Tye dye I don't expect you to see this but both the Jaguar GT and the Lotus GT cars are actually in Forza Motorsport 4
The Ginetta had so much promise & like the recent Glickenhaus entry, was thwarted due to a combination of bad luck, poor decisions regarding creation of the vehicle, not enough testing & its owners being absolute knobs. Look at how popular WEC is today with the LMD-H/LM-H ruleset & Ginetta 200% missed a trick by not trying to stick around, however tough it may have been. It also lives on as a very good mod on AC by the VRC modding group. Driven it many times and its an absolute blast to drive, shame that its kind of died into oblivion in the shadow of what we have today
wonderbul