I've followed RC SPROUL for over 20 years now. Recently I discovered Doug Wilson. He's keeping me sane in an insane world, especially since SPROUL is no longer with us. I am happy to see them interact together. I love it!
@@adrianhenry4621 anything can be idolatry if you worship it. Money, power, family, self. Anything good if you take it to the extreme. I believe you have people around that keeps you grounded. They keep you sane. That is good as long as you don't put it/them on a pedestal. May God alone be worshipped
Really appreciate Wilson’s and Sproul’s comments. Both nailed it. Regarding Piper’s response: I understand to a degree where he’s coming from, however, it’s not really our place to inspect the eyes of our brethren to see if they’re “tearful” enough when they refute error or heresy in God’s church. I’m not a fan of Christians who made it their hobby to acerbically find fault, but we do need watchmen in Zion, and they better not be at ease. I would encourage Piper to think about how seemingly uncouth and often cutting a Luther or a Knox would be in the midst of enemies outside the church, or their dealing with foolishness within the church. These men and reformers like them did not hold back.
This is the theological Mount Rushmore. the only person missing is MacArthur. God will maintain his remnant down through the generations. Soli Deo Gloria !!!
Doug Wilson is the only legitimate non-compromiser in the group. Sproul is not far off. Piper hates Biblical truth and has embraced the "social justice" movement.
It is so true, if we really are truly redeemed from our old self being in the word is never boring, in fact we hunger for the word of GOD. I came from a community church where 90 percent of the time is dissecting the word of God. In the US church I now attend, there is only 25 minutes for the sermon and sometimes the sermons are centered on experiences and not the word of God and what it means for a Christian to abide in it.
amen.....I am in the United states and have just now for the last 4 years...found a good reformation Church that studies the Bible and exalts the Word of God...
@@Jay_the_giant I don't know what happened to Piper along the way.. I really enjoyed and got a lot from his series (2 of them) on Calvinism years ago. He's said many things that are true in the past. I hardly recognize him anymore and I've moved on from taking the time to listen to him now.
@@Jay_the_giant You should repent and delete this comment. I am not a huge Piper fan, but give honor to whom honor is due. You are *publicly* slandering a brother on the internet, a brother who, I will remind you, has likely done far more to motivate people toward holiness, to give their lives going into the mission field, toward an appreciation for the glory and holiness of God, etc. than you have or ever will in your lifetime. Also, I am almost certain Doug would, following his great answer, rebuke you for this comment. Way to *totally* miss the mark.
@@Jay_the_giant And, as a follow up, before you inevitably try to hit me with an accusation that I'm saying he is above criticism (which he certainly is not and deserving of fair, biblical , and appropriately sharp criticism), the issue I take is your slanderous and sinful claim that Piper has a "weak, spineless Christianity".
@@michaelmannucci8585 check on his behavior and preaching the last few years. Check his fruit (such as Abraham Piper) and let me know how what I said is false. I’ve appreciated what Piper has done in the past, but he is disqualified at this point. I’ll see him in Heaven. Just not a qualified pastor anymore because he is weak, soft, and spineless.
Same her, my friend. As best as I know now, the answer is the pursuit of Christ. "All of Christ for all of life " Semper Fi brother, Semper Fi to the King of Kings.
"In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Besides those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches." "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, than I am strong." (2 Corinthians 11:27-28; 12:9-10)
A good answer to the tender and tough question can be picked up from CS Lewis' Screwtape Letter. In his preface to the book, Lewis warns the reader about how he had to stop writing the letters at some point because he had to almost get into Screwtape's head. It is a dangerous thing indeed.
After watching what he said I wouldn't say he is doing that at all. He is just bringing in a biblical truth that we need to think about alongside using sarcasm and irony etc. We are sinful, and it can be very easy for us to become sinful and proud and puffed-up in how we counter these false teachings and ideas. And like he said, we want Christ to be the motivation of how we respond, not that people think more about how clever our argument was! As is with most things in the Christian life, it's balance. Attacking the false teachings that plague the church but also being sure not to allow ourselves to become arrogant and prideful and unloving in doing so.
@Hugh Seager, amen! To your words of truth, I would add, in response to the initial comment, that gentleness and kindness in communicating truth are not just a matter of style. They're fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Piper's commitment to truth over the last 40 years has been second to none. His commitment to the truth of Gods Word is actually what dictated his comment. This is a man who studies and teaches Gods Word with a careful commitment to every letter and punctuation mark. Take a look at his "Look at the Book" work. To call him inherently deceptive is a tragic miss on his integrity and his love for Gods Word.
@@Flirri But thats not why he warned them. He warned them not to clap because he was offering his opinion of how Doug should write his articles and he didn't want it to be received that way although that's what it was.
2 Timothy 2:24 (please read in context), says the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone...correcting his opponents with gentleness. and 1 Peter 3:15 - being prepared to make a defense to anyone...with gentleness and respect.
2 chapters later... I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 2 Timothy 4:1-4 I guess it depends on your definition of kindness and gentleness. Proverbs says "as iron sharpens iron.." That's not a gentle process. Patience and humility? Absolutely! But, when it comes to the modern definition of "nice", I'll pass. "Nice" today means don't offend. However, the gospel has always been offensive. The gospel tells us that we're radically depraved and in need of a savior; that we can do nothing on our own. That message is very offensive but, it's very loving, too.
@@timwinn5834 Then how do you justify the all that with 2 Timothy 3, Timothy here is told to not to attend to this type of Christians, (look ay v5)... These people in chapter 3 are beyond repair, that's why Timothy is advised to leave them
John Scooby - Matthew 23. What you cited is referring to correcting wayward sheep... and not rebuking false shepherds. I cannot understand how anyone can read the New Testament and come away thinking we're supposed to be soft on "deceivers and foolish blind guides." - JC Here also is Acts 7, Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.
Living in light of eternity and the preciousness of time makes life simple. God being the only one we desire to please makes life simple. Pleasing a phonebook of people is hard and complicated. Putting the label of "FOREVER" on anything and everything makes life complicated.
I get it. If you are starving to death and no shelter and you truly believe, pray, have Faith and realize the transforming you will rise to the occasion. The LORD said I have fed you, given you clothes shoes. If you pray, love me, wait for me you shall not want. Glory to God. Amen. What do you need, not what you want. Amen Glory to God. Yes, DR. Sproul, My treasure is my LORD. Amen. I miss you.
Good to see Douglas Wilson in this panel because he is really a gift. And Al Mohler is an amazing teacher and theologian that is all but forgotten now. Piper writes well but is a bit troubling especially as of late.
Tonight our family just read Luke ch. 21 and in that chapter Jesus draws attention to a woman who is poor, and she puts into the church treasury box 2 small copper coins. He told his disciples that she put in more than all the rich who gave out of their wealth, while she gave “all she had to live on”. This account is meant to shame us very much.
The Martas I love that poor widow, it made me weep thinking of her going hungry and her tremendous faith and I love that Jesus noticed (of course He did)....ll
There’s a big difference between giving tithe that fills Joel Osteens pockets and supporting your small local church. But believe it or not, it’s actually possible to support your church’s finances AND donate to charity.
I'm not very good at math; but, I'm pretty sure that “the largest amount of questions” is always “the majority of wuestions”; so, you really didn't need to “differentiate” between the two.
He's been pretty much blacklisted, pushed out to the fringe with hopes he'll just go away. I think he's spot on and we need more Christian men to stand up like he does.
@@DarinCSmithhuge misunderstanding regarding the FV issue. I think it’s a scapegoat that the softies in the PCA used as an excuse to push him outside the Overton window because they could hold nothing to him.
Since he doesn't compromise and preaches the same Gospel, he's considered too controversial. As if the Golpel needed to change. God is the same today, yesterday and forever.
I agree with the thoughts of investing in the kingdom but when I look at pastors that live better than me and wearing nicer suits than me I’m wondering hmm something doesn’t look right here. Am I wrong?
I agree with your sentiment, but also realize that I have to be extremely careful with such thoughts. Many times you have no idea how someone came to possess such things. I have known people and even pastors who live very modestly but have been given clothes, cars, and even places to live. One example: several years ago my wife and I were allowed to live rent free in a house that was way fancier than anything I will ever own or would wish to own. The owners could have just sold the house when they moved, but instead they blessed us in a tremendous way and sold the house later when the market was more favorable. An onlooker that didn't know us well might have accused us of spending way too much on ourselves and living extravagantly but they would have been really wrong. We used all of the money we saved to get out of debt and began to give more generously.
whatever9042 maybe I am not understanding what you are saying but I think there is a difference. If I needed or wanted a suit and someone gave me enough money to buy a fancy suit, I probably wouldn’t. I would likely give some of the money away and use the rest to buy a modest suit. But, If someone gave me a fancy suit that fit me nicely, I would probably keep it and enjoy it, and hope that my Christian friends would not judge me by thinking I have no interest in giving and “investing in the kingdom.”
4:45 tithing.. Did I miss something when I studied the New Testament? Did Paul forget to tell us about a tithe?.. He says we're robbing God, taken from Malachi..
Sproul is right on target. Wilson is still the same on topics. Mohler has become somewhat ambiguous. Piper is still about feelings and has courted CRT. It's no wonder the state of decline in the USA Church.
It is to be noted whenever videos like this get commentary of criticism to Calvinism or any other Reformed position from individuals (other professions Christians) that often say things like "all" making grand unclear or broad statements, themselves completely out of context. Wide ranging comments do the kingdom no good. Pick a doctrine or theological issue to contend with and we can do as the Lord has instructed thru Paul (and others) and we can come and reason together. Hopefully to the glory of God and not our own vain purposes.
I don’t think Jesus used sarcasm. He said what he meant and was straight forward. Sarcasm is saying something that you don’t mean and it can injure a persons spirit. I grew up with hearing from a sibling and it caused emotional wounds. Jesus Christ corrected and chastised but he never would demean or tear down an individuals spirit. He longed for them to repent.
we have been spending almost all the money we take in on ourselves. you will get more money when you begin spreading the gospel instead of building buildings
Not really. He's not as strong as I'd like, but Joe Rigney definitely is, and Piper enthusiastically supports him as his successor at Bethlehem College & Seminary.
Okay. 30 odd yrs. I've been listening to John Piper. It is preposterous to ask this man for a simple answer. Hear now. O-PEN-ING an En-v-lope has 4 steps and an ontological purpose. Feeding the dawwg...sends him to the study to check the Westminster Confession : How dogs...most properly serve the glory of God. Answer: Ruff Greens "Ruff Greens?! Got none. Call a deacon. "Where's the grocery store for dawwgs?! I have a Cay- nine Crisis. God is testing my resourcefulness. There are no simple answers.
If it is true, according to Sproul that, "One of the greatest barriers to extending the kingdom of God are the financial limits" than it is no longer the work of God but rather the work of man dependent on the 4% who give their tithes. This was not true in OT times, this was not true in NT times, it was not true during the Protestant Reformation and it is not true today. The work of the Kingdom of God are not limited to man and his money. God's kingdom and His Work are established and extended according to God's eternal counsel according to His Sovereignty and by His All Wise, Omnipotent Providence in Election, Reprobation and Predestination. (Romans Chapters 8-9) (Ephesians Chapters 1-2) (1Peter 1-2) For by Grace are ye saved THROUGH Faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the Gift of God: NOT of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them. God's Grace does not make a man vain and profane but fruitful, grateful and thankful. This is all of GOD. All by God’s Grace And All for God's Glory.
He wasn’t. And if you knew what he knew you wouldn’t be saying that. Semite comes from Shem. And the line of Judah are not the only ones who are from Shem. Palestinians are semites too. Another note , there is the synagogue of Satan who worship Lucifer the light bringer and they want Noahide laws that calls for putting Christians to death, they believe we are idolaters. They use the Babylonian Talmud. Very evil. Not all Jews are aware of this. But Martin Luther knew more than most do today.
Of course like the one who put on the first comment, those are Legends up there! Yes they are legends of wolves in sheep clothing that had an early start beginning in the first century of the Church Age!!! From the early times of the Church Age, they were able to enter unknowingly into flocks of disciples, ( students of the Word ) not yet being converted and saved yet. And if these wolves were and are as wise as a Serpent, they know how to deceive most of the human race by going along with the preaching of the truth in the letter of the Word in scriptures!!! The verse that says, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life is not really understood by the still lost and blind because the letters of the Word in scriptures is Jesus, the Christ who created everything! Without Him there would be nothing created!!! In other words, preaching and having knowledge of scriptures does not surely mean you are saved. Lucifer, Satan knows his time is very short. How do you think he knows that?
@@raymondmelanson5757 what would give you evidence that they are snakes. I find doug wilson in particular extremely consistent over the past 20 years. Is it because they are calvanists?
Tim winn this is actually what I want you to see-- follow scrioture and not men? This is Dave Hunts quote; Now let me quote Calvin: “...at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified once for the whole life...we must...recall our baptism...so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins...it wipes and washes away all our defilements” (IV: xv, 3). Again: “God in baptism promises the remission of sins, and will undoubtedly perform what he has promised to all believers. That promise was offered to us in baptism, let us therefore embrace it in faith” (IV: xxv, 17). And, “We have...a similar promise given to the fathers in circumcision, similar to that which is given to us in baptism...the forgiveness of sins and the mortification of the flesh....We deny...that...the power of God cannot regenerate infants....Let God, then, be demanded why he ordered circumcision to be performed on the bodies of infants...by baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ (1 Cor xii.13). [Therefore] infants...are to be baptised...” (IV: xv, 22; xvi, 3, 4, 8, 10, 17-32). I give these quotes in What Love Is This? on pp. 41, 388, 430, among others, and I hold Calvin to these statements. This is a Catholic [3] dogma, yet it was carried over into many “reformed” churches and remains there today. Furthermore, Calvin never tells of the moment that he renounced the false gospel of Catholicism [3] and believed the true gospel. He extols the sacraments, says they can be performed only by the clergy (including Roman Catholic [3]), and accepts infant baptism by a Catholic [3] priest as efficacious. If he ever renounced Catholicism [3]’s false gospel, when did this occur? And how could he have, considering that he banned from Geneva(1537) and persecuted the Anabaptists who, though raised Catholics, believed the biblical gospel and as a result were born again and baptized as believers? The fact that Calvin was only baptized once-as an infant-and that he persecuted as heretics those who were baptized as believers, contradicts entirely what you think the quotations you cite mean. Moreover, one of the two charges (brought to the court by Calvin himself) for which Servetus was burned at the stake was his rejection of infant baptism for salvation [2]. Calvin goes into great detail justifying this charge against Servetus and repeatedly scorning Servetus for rejecting the efficacy of infant baptism for salvation [2]. Please read again pages 79-85 of What Love Is This? where I cover the subject thoroughly.
ssla77...I fear for your soul....You have no clue what true repentance is and are denying the 'power' of God ,Christ & Holy Spirit...You need to truly repent and get saved....and then you will desire to make Christ your Lord .....anything( less) is heresy....and following a gospel that is not what the Word of God says in Holy Scripture....is damning your soul.....Please ask Christ to reveal to you the truth about making him LORD...'many will say in that day...Lord, Lord did we not.......and he will say 'Depart from me YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY'...and you can ONLY believe on Christ IF the Spirit of GOD draws you ...It is all God and not man...lest anyone boast....
Tim Winn this is the true Gospel!! First, we must recognize that we have sinned against God: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). We have all done things that are displeasing to God, which makes us deserving of punishment. Since all our sins are ultimately against an eternal God, only an eternal punishment is sufficient. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). However, Jesus Christ, the sinless (1 Peter 2:22), eternal Son of God became a man (John 1:1,14) and died to pay our penalty. "God demonstrates His love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ died on the cross (John 19:31-42), taking the punishment that we deserve (2 Corinthians 5:21). Three days later He rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), proving His victory over sin and death. "In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3). By faith, we must change our mindset regarding Christ - who He is, what He did, and why - for salvation (Acts 3:19). If we place our faith in Him, trusting His death on the cross to pay for our sins, we will be forgiven and receive the promise of eternal life in heaven. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son so that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Faith alone in the finished work of Christ on the cross is the only true path to eternal life! "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). Beware or religious sounding Biblical pholosophers that mix truth with error!
Tim Winn. We do not make Jesus Lord. Jesus is Lord. What we are supposed to do is submit to His lordship. Another word for our response to Jesus’ Lordship is “submission.” To submit is to yield to the will and control of another, and, with reference to Christians, it is yielding to the will and control of Jesus Christ. This means that when Scripture commands believers to love one another (John 15:17), that is what is to be done. It means that when Scripture says we are not to commit adultery or steal (Exodus 20:14-15), these things are not to be done. It should be understood that submission, or obedience to the commands of God, is related to Christian growth and maturity, and is not related to becoming a Christian. A person becomes a Christian by faith alone in Christ apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Tim Winn-- The Greek word for “repent” is metanoia (noun) or metanoeo (verb). It basically means a change of mind and the context must determine what is involved in that change of mind. In passages where salvation is in view it is equivalent to believe or trust in and involves a change of mind about any form of self-trust in human works, good deeds, religious tradition, etc. followed by a trust in the finished work of Christ which alone has the power to save us. It means a turning from self-trust to trust in Christ. Jesus came to save sinners!! Follow the Word of God and not idolized men! Let the Word of Truth shape your thinking and not mans opinion!
Wow, is Piper talking like a wimp at the end? Lord forbid. I think there is a different way we treat other believers and another way we treat those who don't believe in their arrogance,
I agree with you. Piper has always been a wimp though. I still like him but he's a total nancy. Him voting for Biden makes even more sense after watching this
If these men are thieves then it ought to be easy to point out their sin and confront them in it. Slander and lies are another sin and I would warn my brothers and sisters in Christ to avoid being tempted to commit these against other Kingdom citizens.
For me, besides John, MacArthur’s ministry, I can’t think of many organizations or ministries. I would want to give them money to now. I don’t think they can be trusted to support God’s word. Anyone else feel like that?
Piper what a great charismatic preacher. I understand why he is the preeminent Calvinist of our time. ( 5 points and TULIP and all that jazz). He is quoted much along with Spurgeon and Sproul but they did not write scripture and they don’t preach the Gospel which means good news. They do not believe God meant what He said. Out of the mouth of Christ John 3:16. They don’t believe He meant that. He really meant He only died for “the elect” chosen before time and the non elect be damned before time by God to show His Glory. God is love, God loves you NO you can’t say that because God hates the non elect and there is nothing they can do about it. They use a text “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated” to prove it but they take it out of context and don’t go back to the original quote in the Old Testament. God does not lie or try to trick us with words. He meant what He said. Brothers and sisters pray the Holy Spirit opens the word to you so you can truly see Jesus and the sovereign love of God. Go and tell the WORLD of Christ love and what He has done for them. May the love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and in you. Pray for discernment
God loved the world... his creation because he will restore it to perfection. That doesn't mean every single person will be saved. But the WORLD will be saved.
@Steven Irizarry no Calvinist believes that God only elects Calvinist. You know the word "elect" is a biblical term right? Calvinist didn't make up election or predestination. Both of those terms are in the Bible. But touche, I get your joke and I lol'd at it. 😆
@Steven Irizarryto reiterate: no Calvinist believes that. It may have looked like I was using poor grammar and saying that Calvinists do believe that, but what I was saying is that no Calvinist believes that. There definitely are Arminians among the elect.
While Piper has many admirable qualities, his rebuke of Wilson should have been done privately. Piper’s call for simplifying ourselves economically reeks of hypocrisy when he sits on a net worth of $1-$5 million.
Ministers talk about tithings to the church, but they forget how well they live compared to their parishioners and how they steal or rob God worst than a non-tither. These men sell God for their own profit and their reward will be just.
I will agree that there are many wolves who stand behind a pullpit for earthly gain. These men however are of the Lord and the money they gain goes into spreading the Gospel and teaching theology. God smiles on them
Sweeping statements about every single pastor using the examples of some who are the worst is at best mistaken if not deliberately misleading and lying.
if the old testament is the only proof of the new testament , then jesus , has failed in his mission ! we have to stop making them in one single book .
What are you talking about? The “Bible “ of the first Christians was the Old Testament. Paul’s famous “All scripture” quote was about the Old Testament. Jesus told the travelers that the scriptures (Old Testament) spoke of Him. The Old and New Testaments are the Word of God combined.
I've followed RC SPROUL for over 20 years now. Recently I discovered Doug Wilson. He's keeping me sane in an insane world, especially since SPROUL is no longer with us. I am happy to see them interact together. I love it!
They’re the best in this panel.
Thank god that uses his people to remind us we are not alone in this world !
He keeps you sane? Be reminded Doug Wilson is looking to Jesus word and Jesus itself to keep him sane, not another human being.
That's idolatry
@@adrianhenry4621 anything can be idolatry if you worship it. Money, power, family, self. Anything good if you take it to the extreme.
I believe you have people around that keeps you grounded. They keep you sane. That is good as long as you don't put it/them on a pedestal.
May God alone be worshipped
Look up, Bobby Blakey and mike fabarez
Those are LEGENDS up there. Thanks so much for sharing.
Wwwwhut? Didn't expect you here 😁 Good to see you here, brother!
Really appreciate Wilson’s and Sproul’s comments. Both nailed it.
Regarding Piper’s response:
I understand to a degree where he’s coming from, however, it’s not really our place to inspect the eyes of our brethren to see if they’re “tearful” enough when they refute error or heresy in God’s church. I’m not a fan of Christians who made it their hobby to acerbically find fault, but we do need watchmen in Zion, and they better not be at ease.
I would encourage Piper to think about how seemingly uncouth and often cutting a Luther or a Knox would be in the midst of enemies outside the church, or their dealing with foolishness within the church. These men and reformers like them did not hold back.
Very valiuable advice to all the believers in Christ. Thanks to all the 4 panelists and the Ligonier ministries.
What a panel. Mohler has shaped my thinking less, but the other three the most!
All the panelist’s- wonderful job. I have learned so much! Praise God and thank you!
R C Sproul the best ! He is way a head off his time ! Glory to Christ to give us such a teacher !
This is the theological Mount Rushmore. the only person missing is MacArthur. God will maintain his remnant down through the generations.
Soli Deo Gloria !!!
Amen.
Scott Carter A theological Mount Rushmore would also include Sinclair Ferguson
They needed some Ravi Zacharias as well
Doug Wilson is the only legitimate non-compromiser in the group. Sproul is not far off. Piper hates Biblical truth and has embraced the "social justice" movement.
@@rodric.104 he is an apologist, not a theologian.
It is so true, if we really are truly redeemed from our old self being in the word is never boring, in fact we hunger for the word of GOD. I came from a community church where 90 percent of the time is dissecting the word of God. In the US church I now attend, there is only 25 minutes for the sermon and sometimes the sermons are centered on experiences and not the word of God and what it means for a Christian to abide in it.
amen.....I am in the United states and have just now for the last 4 years...found a good reformation Church that studies the Bible and exalts the Word of God...
How have I never seen this panel with these four?!
"Manifest tenderness"...thank you John Piper :)
Doug nails it. So does RC in his follow up comments.
And Piper just has to come in with his weak, spineless Christianity.
@@Jay_the_giant I don't know what happened to Piper along the way.. I really enjoyed and got a lot from his series (2 of them) on Calvinism years ago. He's said many things that are true in the past. I hardly recognize him anymore and I've moved on from taking the time to listen to him now.
@@Jay_the_giant You should repent and delete this comment. I am not a huge Piper fan, but give honor to whom honor is due. You are *publicly* slandering a brother on the internet, a brother who, I will remind you, has likely done far more to motivate people toward holiness, to give their lives going into the mission field, toward an appreciation for the glory and holiness of God, etc. than you have or ever will in your lifetime.
Also, I am almost certain Doug would, following his great answer, rebuke you for this comment. Way to *totally* miss the mark.
@@Jay_the_giant And, as a follow up, before you inevitably try to hit me with an accusation that I'm saying he is above criticism (which he certainly is not and deserving of fair, biblical , and appropriately sharp criticism), the issue I take is your slanderous and sinful claim that Piper has a "weak, spineless Christianity".
@@michaelmannucci8585 check on his behavior and preaching the last few years. Check his fruit (such as Abraham Piper) and let me know how what I said is false. I’ve appreciated what Piper has done in the past, but he is disqualified at this point. I’ll see him in Heaven. Just not a qualified pastor anymore because he is weak, soft, and spineless.
This conversation seems much better than last time I remember.
Maybe because you've grown more.
Wow, what a fantastic panel! It is just a shame it was just too short. I understand now why in the future they allow this segment to be longer.
I wish I knew how to capture Pastor Wilsons answer about Imitating Christ this needs to be spread all over the web!!
Same her, my friend. As best as I know now, the answer is the pursuit of Christ. "All of Christ for all of life "
Semper Fi brother, Semper Fi to the King of Kings.
"In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Besides those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches."
"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, than I am strong." (2 Corinthians 11:27-28; 12:9-10)
Douglas Wilson looks exactly the same 16 years later..
You said that 4 years ago and that statement is still true 😂
Sounds the same 21 years later.
The voice has deepened over the years though
Doug Wilson had one of the great mic drops when he spoke
A good answer to the tender and tough question can be picked up from CS Lewis' Screwtape Letter. In his preface to the book, Lewis warns the reader about how he had to stop writing the letters at some point because he had to almost get into Screwtape's head. It is a dangerous thing indeed.
Hmm... John Piper putting style over truth. 24:02 There's something inherently deceptive about this style.
After watching what he said I wouldn't say he is doing that at all. He is just bringing in a biblical truth that we need to think about alongside using sarcasm and irony etc. We are sinful, and it can be very easy for us to become sinful and proud and puffed-up in how we counter these false teachings and ideas. And like he said, we want Christ to be the motivation of how we respond, not that people think more about how clever our argument was! As is with most things in the Christian life, it's balance. Attacking the false teachings that plague the church but also being sure not to allow ourselves to become arrogant and prideful and unloving in doing so.
@Hugh Seager, amen! To your words of truth, I would add, in response to the initial comment, that gentleness and kindness in communicating truth are not just a matter of style. They're fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Piper's commitment to truth over the last 40 years has been second to none. His commitment to the truth of Gods Word is actually what dictated his comment. This is a man who studies and teaches Gods Word with a careful commitment to every letter and punctuation mark. Take a look at his "Look at the Book" work. To call him inherently deceptive is a tragic miss on his integrity and his love for Gods Word.
I'm happy Sproul added the last word on the Piper/ Wilson debate. I think he got it right- Wilson was right.
i think both were right, blessings to you.
@@samreedmusic Piper warned people who clapped for Doug Wilson, they can't both be right.
@@Flirri agreed, both said things that were right, but one rebuked the other. One is certainly more right than the other.
@@Flirri But thats not why he warned them. He warned them not to clap because he was offering his opinion of how Doug should write his articles and he didn't want it to be received that way although that's what it was.
2 Timothy 2:24 (please read in context), says the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone...correcting his opponents with gentleness.
and
1 Peter 3:15 - being prepared to make a defense to anyone...with gentleness and respect.
2 chapters later...
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:1-4
I guess it depends on your definition of kindness and gentleness. Proverbs says "as iron sharpens iron.." That's not a gentle process. Patience and humility? Absolutely! But, when it comes to the modern definition of "nice", I'll pass. "Nice" today means don't offend. However, the gospel has always been offensive. The gospel tells us that we're radically depraved and in need of a savior; that we can do nothing on our own. That message is very offensive but, it's very loving, too.
@@timwinn5834 Then how do you justify the all that with 2 Timothy 3, Timothy here is told to not to attend to this type of Christians, (look ay v5)... These people in chapter 3 are beyond repair, that's why Timothy is advised to leave them
John Scooby - Matthew 23. What you cited is referring to correcting wayward sheep... and not rebuking false shepherds.
I cannot understand how anyone can read the New Testament and come away thinking we're supposed to be soft on "deceivers and foolish blind guides." - JC
Here also is Acts 7,
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.
Living in light of eternity and the preciousness of time makes life simple.
God being the only one we desire to please makes life simple.
Pleasing a phonebook of people is hard and complicated.
Putting the label of "FOREVER" on anything and everything makes life complicated.
Fred Mcelroy amen well said
Thanks, good principles!
I get it. If you are starving to death and no shelter and you truly believe, pray, have Faith and realize the transforming you will rise to the occasion. The LORD said I have fed you, given you clothes shoes. If you pray, love me, wait for me you shall not want. Glory to God. Amen. What do you need, not what you want. Amen Glory to God. Yes, DR. Sproul, My treasure is my LORD. Amen. I miss you.
Good stuff from all,but i think Doug Wilson and RC gave the wwjd subject a very good and needed balanced treatment
Good to see Douglas Wilson in this panel because he is really a gift. And Al Mohler is an amazing teacher and theologian that is all but forgotten now. Piper writes well but is a bit troubling especially as of late.
Piper is too soft
And all of them r so eminent and well respected and yet openly viewing opinions that do not necessarily agree 100%.
Break life down to needs and wants that simplifies
27:27 I don't know why you're clapping...
Paul Washer 2.0?
24 years later Doug and Al Mohler shared the same stage again. :) not sure tho if it's the first time after this. 😊
Following Christ is "simpler" (John 8:12).
32:40
Tonight our family just read Luke ch. 21 and in that chapter Jesus draws attention to a woman who is poor, and she puts into the church treasury box 2 small copper coins. He told his disciples that she put in more than all the rich who gave out of their wealth, while she gave “all she had to live on”. This account is meant to shame us very much.
The Martas
I love that poor widow, it made me weep thinking of her going hungry and her tremendous faith and I love that Jesus noticed (of course He did)....ll
If you'd have shown Mohler the trajectory of the SBC... I wonder if he'd have done anything to avoid it.
Investment in the kingdom of God-YES! But not to denominational franchises.
Poor, needy, widows, orphans not religious kingdoms.
unnecessary dichotomy.
There’s a big difference between giving tithe that fills Joel Osteens pockets and supporting your small local church. But believe it or not, it’s actually possible to support your church’s finances AND donate to charity.
I'm not very good at math; but, I'm pretty sure that “the largest amount of questions” is always “the majority of wuestions”; so, you really didn't need to “differentiate” between the two.
Why is Pastor Wilson no longer participating in these events?
He's been pretty much blacklisted, pushed out to the fringe with hopes he'll just go away. I think he's spot on and we need more Christian men to stand up like he does.
Because he teaches federal vision - a known heresy
@@DarinCSmithprove he teaches heresy. John Piper teaches "complimentarianism" that's not biblical. Among a few other issues.
@@wgterry73ifyI second this🤔
@@DarinCSmithhuge misunderstanding regarding the FV issue. I think it’s a scapegoat that the softies in the PCA used as an excuse to push him outside the Overton window because they could hold nothing to him.
So Piper wants you to "see the tears" in a newsletter?
wow john piper looked older back then.
Lillie Gitchell I think Piper suffered with cancer in recent years.
😂😂😂😂
More spine, fewer tears.
Why doesn't Doug do these question answer panels anymore.
Because he is too conservative and hasn't backslid
Since he doesn't compromise and preaches the same Gospel, he's considered too controversial. As if the Golpel needed to change. God is the same today, yesterday and forever.
I think the guys in charge of Ligonier now don't like him very much.
I agree with the thoughts of investing in the kingdom but when I look at pastors that live better than me and wearing nicer suits than me I’m wondering hmm something doesn’t look right here. Am I wrong?
Agreed.
I agree with your sentiment, but also realize that I have to be extremely careful with such thoughts. Many times you have no idea how someone came to possess such things. I have known people and even pastors who live very modestly but have been given clothes, cars, and even places to live. One example: several years ago my wife and I were allowed to live rent free in a house that was way fancier than anything I will ever own or would wish to own. The owners could have just sold the house when they moved, but instead they blessed us in a tremendous way and sold the house later when the market was more favorable. An onlooker that didn't know us well might have accused us of spending way too much on ourselves and living extravagantly but they would have been really wrong. We used all of the money we saved to get out of debt and began to give more generously.
DJ Kelley being given the object or being given the money to buy the object what’s the difference?
whatever9042 maybe I am not understanding what you are saying but I think there is a difference. If I needed or wanted a suit and someone gave me enough money to buy a fancy suit, I probably wouldn’t. I would likely give some of the money away and use the rest to buy a modest suit. But, If someone gave me a fancy suit that fit me nicely, I would probably keep it and enjoy it, and hope that my Christian friends would not judge me by thinking I have no interest in giving and “investing in the kingdom.”
DJ Kelley makes sense
4:45 tithing.. Did I miss something when I studied the New Testament? Did Paul forget to tell us about a tithe?.. He says we're robbing God, taken from Malachi..
Piper's warning was perfect👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Yes!!!
Where was I 8 years ago that I didnt see this !? Its soooo easy to be distracted with vanity in day to day life.
Good point. Do we know who Jesus is?
Sproul is right on target. Wilson is still the same on topics. Mohler has become somewhat ambiguous. Piper is still about feelings and has courted CRT. It's no wonder the state of decline in the USA Church.
Please what does CRT mean?
@@toluwanifemi6722 Critical Race Theory
Is John Piper still alive? Striking personality
Yup! very much alive! He leads "Desiring God" ministries which you can find on RUclips and on other places. He is amazing!
It is to be noted whenever videos like this get commentary of criticism to Calvinism or any other Reformed position from individuals (other professions Christians) that often say things like "all" making grand unclear or broad statements, themselves completely out of context. Wide ranging comments do the kingdom no good. Pick a doctrine or theological issue to contend with and we can do as the Lord has instructed thru Paul (and others) and we can come and reason together. Hopefully to the glory of God and not our own vain purposes.
Mathew 7:1-3
I don’t think Jesus used sarcasm. He said what he meant and was straight forward. Sarcasm is saying something that you don’t mean and it can injure a persons spirit. I grew up with hearing from a sibling and it caused emotional wounds. Jesus Christ corrected and chastised but he never would demean or tear down an individuals spirit. He longed for them to repent.
we have been spending almost all the money we take in on ourselves. you will get more money when you begin spreading the gospel instead of building buildings
"as John Piper can tell us..." 😂😂
Unfortunately hasn't John Piper jumped on the "social justice" bandwagon?
Not really. He's not as strong as I'd like, but Joe Rigney definitely is, and Piper enthusiastically supports him as his successor at Bethlehem College & Seminary.
@@ShiroiNihonjin oh okay, well then that is also frustrating .
not at all. he's as reformed and gospel centered as they come.
@@ShiroiNihonjin Interestingly enough, Rigney left Bethlehem and joined up with the Moscow men.
Okay. 30 odd yrs. I've been listening to John Piper. It is preposterous to ask this man for a simple answer. Hear now.
O-PEN-ING an En-v-lope has 4 steps and an ontological purpose.
Feeding the dawwg...sends him to the study to check the Westminster Confession : How dogs...most properly serve the glory of God. Answer: Ruff Greens
"Ruff Greens?! Got none. Call a deacon. "Where's the grocery store for dawwgs?! I have a Cay- nine Crisis. God is testing my resourcefulness.
There are no simple answers.
If it is true, according to Sproul that, "One of the greatest barriers to extending the kingdom of God are the financial limits" than it is no longer the work of God but rather the work of man dependent on the 4% who give their tithes.
This was not true in OT times, this was not true in NT times, it was not true during the Protestant Reformation and it is not true today. The work of the Kingdom of God are not limited to man and his money. God's kingdom and His Work are established and extended according to God's eternal counsel according to His Sovereignty and by His All Wise, Omnipotent Providence in Election, Reprobation and Predestination. (Romans Chapters 8-9)
(Ephesians Chapters 1-2) (1Peter 1-2)
For by Grace are ye saved THROUGH Faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the Gift of God: NOT of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
God's Grace does not make a man vain and profane but fruitful, grateful and thankful.
This is all of GOD.
All by God’s Grace
And All for God's Glory.
The sad part about Martin Luther is he became anti Semitic .... I don't understand why
He wasn’t. And if you knew what he knew you wouldn’t be saying that. Semite comes from Shem. And the line of Judah are not the only ones who are from Shem. Palestinians are semites too.
Another note , there is the synagogue of Satan who worship Lucifer the light bringer and they want Noahide laws that calls for putting Christians to death, they believe we are idolaters. They use the Babylonian Talmud. Very evil. Not all Jews are aware of this. But Martin Luther knew more than most do today.
Sprouls point on Christian worship has aged tremendously.
Of course like the one who put on the first comment, those are Legends up there! Yes they are legends of wolves in sheep clothing that had an early start beginning in the first century of the Church Age!!! From the early times of the Church Age, they were able to enter unknowingly into flocks of disciples, ( students of the Word ) not yet being converted and saved yet. And if these wolves were and are as wise as a Serpent, they know how to deceive most of the human race by going along with the preaching of the truth in the letter of the Word in scriptures!!! The verse that says, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life is not really understood by the still lost and blind because the letters of the Word in scriptures is Jesus, the Christ who created everything! Without Him there would be nothing created!!! In other words, preaching and having knowledge of scriptures does not surely mean you are saved. Lucifer, Satan knows his time is very short. How do you think he knows that?
Which one
@@palmettobouy1 All of them!!!
@@raymondmelanson5757 what would give you evidence that they are snakes. I find doug wilson in particular extremely consistent over the past 20 years. Is it because they are calvanists?
@@palmettobouy1 The Holy Spirit, once He entered and resides in us!
@@raymondmelanson5757 dude I'm not following what your saying. Im talking about why you disagree with these guys and are calling them snakes?
Tim winn this is actually what I want you to see-- follow scrioture and not men? This is Dave Hunts quote;
Now let me quote Calvin: “...at whatever time we are baptised, we are washed and purified once for the whole life...we must...recall our baptism...so as to feel certain and secure of the remission of sins...it wipes and washes away all our defilements” (IV: xv, 3). Again: “God in baptism promises the remission of sins, and will undoubtedly perform what he has promised to all believers. That promise was offered to us in baptism, let us therefore embrace it in faith” (IV: xxv, 17). And, “We have...a similar promise given to the fathers in circumcision, similar to that which is given to us in baptism...the forgiveness of sins and the mortification of the flesh....We deny...that...the power of God cannot regenerate infants....Let God, then, be demanded why he ordered circumcision to be performed on the bodies of infants...by baptism we are ingrafted into the body of Christ (1 Cor xii.13). [Therefore] infants...are to be baptised...” (IV: xv, 22; xvi, 3, 4, 8, 10, 17-32). I give these quotes in What Love Is This? on pp. 41, 388, 430, among others, and I hold Calvin to these statements. This is a Catholic [3] dogma, yet it was carried over into many “reformed” churches and remains there today.
Furthermore, Calvin never tells of the moment that he renounced the false gospel of Catholicism [3] and believed the true gospel. He extols the sacraments, says they can be performed only by the clergy (including Roman Catholic [3]), and accepts infant baptism by a Catholic [3] priest as efficacious. If he ever renounced Catholicism [3]’s false gospel, when did this occur? And how could he have, considering that he banned from Geneva(1537) and persecuted the Anabaptists who, though raised Catholics, believed the biblical gospel and as a result were born again and baptized as believers?
The fact that Calvin was only baptized once-as an infant-and that he persecuted as heretics those who were baptized as believers, contradicts entirely what you think the quotations you cite mean. Moreover, one of the two charges (brought to the court by Calvin himself) for which Servetus was burned at the stake was his rejection of infant baptism for salvation [2]. Calvin goes into great detail justifying this charge against Servetus and repeatedly scorning Servetus for rejecting the efficacy of infant baptism for salvation [2]. Please read again pages 79-85 of What Love Is This? where I cover the subject thoroughly.
ssla77...I fear for your soul....You have no clue what true repentance is and are denying the 'power' of God ,Christ & Holy Spirit...You need to truly repent and get saved....and then you will desire to make Christ your Lord .....anything( less) is heresy....and following a gospel that is not what the Word of God says in Holy Scripture....is damning your soul.....Please ask Christ to reveal to you the truth about making him LORD...'many will say in that day...Lord, Lord did we not.......and he will say 'Depart from me YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY'...and you can ONLY believe on Christ IF the Spirit of GOD draws you ...It is all God and not man...lest anyone boast....
Tim Winn this is the true Gospel!!
First, we must recognize that we have sinned against God: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). We have all done things that are displeasing to God, which makes us deserving of punishment. Since all our sins are ultimately against an eternal God, only an eternal punishment is sufficient. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
However, Jesus Christ, the sinless (1 Peter 2:22), eternal Son of God became a man (John 1:1,14) and died to pay our penalty. "God demonstrates His love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ died on the cross (John 19:31-42), taking the punishment that we deserve (2 Corinthians 5:21). Three days later He rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), proving His victory over sin and death. "In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).
By faith, we must change our mindset regarding Christ - who He is, what He did, and why - for salvation (Acts 3:19). If we place our faith in Him, trusting His death on the cross to pay for our sins, we will be forgiven and receive the promise of eternal life in heaven. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son so that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16). Faith alone in the finished work of Christ on the cross is the only true path to eternal life! "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). Beware or religious sounding Biblical pholosophers that mix truth with error!
Tim Winn. We do not make Jesus Lord. Jesus is Lord. What we are supposed to do is submit to His lordship. Another word for our response to Jesus’ Lordship is “submission.” To submit is to yield to the will and control of another, and, with reference to Christians, it is yielding to the will and control of Jesus Christ. This means that when Scripture commands believers to love one another (John 15:17), that is what is to be done. It means that when Scripture says we are not to commit adultery or steal (Exodus 20:14-15), these things are not to be done. It should be understood that submission, or obedience to the commands of God, is related to Christian growth and maturity, and is not related to becoming a Christian. A person becomes a Christian by faith alone in Christ apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Tim Winn-- The Greek word for “repent” is metanoia (noun) or metanoeo (verb). It basically means a change of mind and the context must determine what is involved in that change of mind. In passages where salvation is in view it is equivalent to believe or trust in and involves a change of mind about any form of self-trust in human works, good deeds, religious tradition, etc. followed by a trust in the finished work of Christ which alone has the power to save us. It means a turning from self-trust to trust in Christ. Jesus came to save sinners!! Follow the Word of God and not idolized men! Let the Word of Truth shape your thinking and not mans opinion!
Wow, is Piper talking like a wimp at the end? Lord forbid. I think there is a different way we treat other believers and another way we treat those who don't believe in their arrogance,
I agree with you. Piper has always been a wimp though. I still like him but he's a total nancy. Him voting for Biden makes even more sense after watching this
How could anyone hate on RC? Well, other than #pedobaptism, of course. ;)
AMEN, CANT WAIT TO MEET HIM IN HEAVEN!!!!
If these men are thieves then it ought to be easy to point out their sin and confront them in it. Slander and lies are another sin and I would warn my brothers and sisters in Christ to avoid being tempted to commit these against other Kingdom citizens.
TITHING IS NOT A NEW COVENANT CONCEPT. maybe people would give more if spending was tied to the NEW COVENANT and not buildings & bureaucracies
For me, besides John, MacArthur’s ministry, I can’t think of many organizations or ministries. I would want to give them money to now. I don’t think they can be trusted to support God’s word. Anyone else feel like that?
Piper what a great charismatic preacher. I understand why he is the preeminent Calvinist of our time. ( 5 points and TULIP and all that jazz). He is quoted much along with Spurgeon and Sproul but they did not write scripture and they don’t preach the Gospel which means good news. They do not believe God meant what He said. Out of the mouth of Christ John 3:16. They don’t believe He meant that. He really meant He only died for “the elect” chosen before time and the non elect be damned before time by God to show His Glory. God is love, God loves you NO you can’t say that because God hates the non elect and there is nothing they can do about it. They use a text “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated” to prove it but they take it out of context and don’t go back to the original quote in the Old Testament. God does not lie or try to trick us with words. He meant what He said. Brothers and sisters pray the Holy Spirit opens the word to you so you can truly see Jesus and the sovereign love of God. Go and tell the WORLD of Christ love and what He has done for them. May the love of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and in you. Pray for discernment
God loved the world... his creation because he will restore it to perfection. That doesn't mean every single person will be saved. But the WORLD will be saved.
Now I can see that mohler is just parroting RC sproul.
At least he is trying.
Actually the legends are: ravi zacaraias, william lane craig, and steve gregg, neither are calvinist.
That's their own fault lol
@Steven Irizarry no Calvinist believes that God only elects Calvinist. You know the word "elect" is a biblical term right? Calvinist didn't make up election or predestination. Both of those terms are in the Bible. But touche, I get your joke and I lol'd at it. 😆
Legends? Nah.
@Steven Irizarryto reiterate: no Calvinist believes that. It may have looked like I was using poor grammar and saying that Calvinists do believe that, but what I was saying is that no Calvinist believes that. There definitely are Arminians among the elect.
@@Stanzi18 :D
While Piper has many admirable qualities, his rebuke of Wilson should have been done privately. Piper’s call for simplifying ourselves economically reeks of hypocrisy when he sits on a net worth of $1-$5 million.
How do you think you know Piper’s net worth?
They hate Moses until it comes to tithing then they are all legalists. What hypocrites.
Bingo.
Piper himself went and invited promoted seeker sensitive pastors in his conferences. Hypocrisy.
Ministers talk about tithings to the church, but they forget how well they live compared to their parishioners and how they steal or rob God worst than a non-tither. These men sell God for their own profit and their reward will be just.
I will agree that there are many wolves who stand behind a pullpit for earthly gain. These men however are of the Lord and the money they gain goes into spreading the Gospel and teaching theology. God smiles on them
Broad brush you got there Bro.
Sweeping statements about every single pastor using the examples of some who are the worst is at best mistaken if not deliberately misleading and lying.
if the old testament is the only proof of the new testament , then jesus , has failed in his mission ! we have to stop making them in one single book .
Could you speak further on what you mean?
What are you talking about? The “Bible “ of the first Christians was the Old Testament. Paul’s famous “All scripture” quote was about the Old Testament. Jesus told the travelers that the scriptures (Old Testament) spoke of Him. The Old and New Testaments are the Word of God combined.