The XC part number means "production prototype". The number is changed to MC when they are in production. It was not uncommon to see X parts in low volume products on the cutting edge. I was on the production prototype list in the late 1980s and would get X parts when developing DSP boards, but XSP56001 in that case.
The reason kick 3.0 support was dropped was because i couldnt get autoconfig to behave with Mediator. So i put the ram where its autodetected in 3.1. I could release a separate firmware but then people would get them mixed up.
@@RasVoja My rules is one kickstart per machine. Usually 3.1 but I will work to support 3.2. Thats already too much for me to cope with. Upgrade to KS 3.1, buy a Warp or ACA1260. If i've not given in to supporting 1.3 on the A500 i'm really not going to give in to supporting 3.0 on a 1200.
Fantastic video Jan =D Welcome to the TF1260 club! Amazing pickups on the R6's =O The graphics glitches or slow downs / crashes etc - you need to experiment with NOCACHE, set NOAUTOVEC as a default for all WHDLOAD games, and NOMMU (all tool tips or set in the WHDLOADPrefs file). Almost everything I play on WHDLOAD works fine on an 060.
I set NOAUTOVEC in the WHDLoad.prefs (recommended in a WHDLoad video), but I couldn't find NOMMU. Or did you mean MMU, which has a " ; " in front for not being active. But it's said for 68030 use. 🤔 I also have a TF1260 (and the same case Jan has 😉) with LC060 btw. And yes, you have to disable some (or one, can't remember) caches to make e.g. DREAD to work on the 060. Easiest way is using Sysinfo for this.
@@GadgetUK164 As I'm new (again^^) in the Amiga world... tool tip is this "text area" when you rightclick on the game/program icon, information and then icon menu? Is there a list somewhere of what instructions can be used there in general? E.g. ADoom and ZDoom come with several pre-defined commands which could be activated/deactivated with brackets ( ) or semicolon ;. Is it even possible to deactivate caches there, so you you don't have to use e.g. Sysinfo for that?
Thanks! I fiddled a bit with the options but didn’t get great results for some games (including my beloved Turrican, of all things!). I’m going to try to tinker with the options you suggested! :D
@@JanBeta I am sure I played loads of Turrican using the NOMMU and NOCACHE and didnt have a problem! I will re-test later for you! Check if there's a new .slave for the game too on the WHDLOAD website!
Very nice setup you have now! 060 is needed if you are into "modern" Amiga demoscene stuff. That would be my goto for content showing off your new setup with 060 rather than doom and quake :)
Your system was running into a Guru at the first attempt, because the 68060.library wasn't loaded. The Motorola 68060 doesn't support some 68020 instructions, specifically the "long" (64bit) multiply/division instructions which are used by Workbench and various parts of the A1200 ROM. These are software emulated after the 68060.library is loaded. So without it, the system would Guru. This is normal behavior on all 68060 accelerators. TL;DR: install the 68060.library first, then install the accelerator itself. This is entirely safe. The 68060.library won't load when that CPU isn't present, and the system would keep functioning normally anyway with any CPU.
@@n00blamer Yeah, me who had a '040 based Amiga since 2001 (which is similar in the sense that it has a CPU library and emulated instructions) and a '060 based Amiga since 2003, it's fun to watch people discover this... I wish they would ask more, since this is trivial knowledge, and it is out there.
@Jan Beta - You might be able to cool the CPU with a heat pipe heatsink. You might be able to find one in a junked laptop, they tend to use heat pipes to get heat from tightly-sandwiched cpus to the side of the case where the fan is.
If not, you can just buy one as a spare part. When the fan died on my laptop, I had to replace the whole heatsink as a unit because the fan is not a separate part. I was prepared to be annoyed but I think it was less than $10 so in the end I had nothing to complain about.
@@mal2ksc Also true. There are definitely shops online that sell fan+heatpipe assemblies for DIY repair. I've done that twice actually. So that's a good way to go look for something that might be the right shape.
I remember those vision cards. The one I saw was used in an industrial fruit sorting machine. It could detect bad fruit as it passed under the camera on a conveyor. It could also sort the size as well. It was very fast as the conveyor moved at quite a speed. Gates would open further up the line to redirect the sorted fruit.
Love my TF1260 and was lucky enough to have a full Rev.1 that runs nice and cool with only a small heat sink that works amazing with all WHDLoad games and as compatible as my Blizzard 030@50 with 3.2 roms and this was never the case with 060’s back with the old 3.1 roms with my experience
I just got an A1200 with Blizzard 1230 @ 50 and I have to ask… did your Blizzard run really hot? I have to leave the trapdoor open, lift the A1200 on higher feet and put a desk fan blowing on it, otherwise it’s so hot you can’t eve touch the table. Is that normal? Could I underclock it?
30:21 I like how the Comment part in SYSINFO reads "Phone me NOW!!!" I know with good (but not this spectacular) scores it says something like "Can you smell the burnt rubber?", the phone me, etc. part I reckon must mean something like "I have to know how did you get this high!".
Could always use this new power to play MODs that use 16 bit samples or lots of channels like with OctaMED Sound Studio or Symphonie Pro... I stumbled upon Symphonie Pro the other day, it's available on Aminet. It's a tracker geared towards high-powered Amigas with an 040/060.
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your 'new' amiga. FWVLIW: My Blizzard 1260 + SCSI routinely runs at 80Mhz with a passive heatsink - it will go to 100Mhz with active cooling for safety and the Blizzard SCSI unplugged. The, um, best use I've found for a 060-equipped Amiga is to run it as a 68K Mac! Otherwise there's really only 68K versions of games that run better on a PPC, and the odd demo... unless you're enough of a masochist to do a bit of retro raytracing.
Yes! 68030 is enough for most "common tasks" (and the vast majority of games) on the Amigas indeed. The 68060 experience is still kind of amazing for me (especially since the fastest I had was a 25MHz 68030 back in the day in my original Amiga 2000). :)
Well, I played it back in the late 90ies on my Amiga with a 68030@50 CPU. Certainly was not great, but I could play it. On a 68040 it was much more playable. And ADoom was the first port of Doom for the Amiga, and it's not the fastest one.
Unsoldering the male IDE header and moving it to the bottom side of the TF1260 allows for an SD2IDE adapter to be used. The pin orientation happens to be just right and it will make your workbench easily accessible via the trapdoor (which can still be closed).
71E41J mask 060s can regularly eat up to 100 MHz when properly *actively* cooled and still be stable. On Atari Falcons with CT60 accelerators they usually run fine at 90 or 100 MHz, 90 being the speed of choice, when you got a CPU that isn't fully stable at 100. Active cooling, in that case, means a flat heat sink with a small fan on top, nothing extreme. If you can find a suitable cooling solution that fits under the keys, it may be worth while, doubling the clock speed...
True that. My Falcon runs at 95 Mhz and it's stable hours on end, with a CT60e + active cooling, my Amiga 1200 has a Warp1260 at 105Mhz (and stable, with active cooling), and my other Amiga 1200 with the TF1260 handles 95Mhz demo-watching runs like a champ. That has no active cooling yet, so I didn't want to push it beyond 64Mhz on longer-runs. All Rev.6, of course.
Motorola and ABB automation systems also use/have used 68k processors extensively. I don't know if the 060 has been very popular but at least 040s are pretty common. Might be different version not compatible with Amiga cards though.
You are right that 030 is better for WHD-Loader. I have an Tsunami-1230 in my 1200, and it is perfect for WHD-Loader. These 060's and PiStorm, Vampires and so on, is something I see for productivity stuff and not old school gaming.
If you purchase and install an IDE header terminator block and put it onto the 1200’s IDE header then the HDD LED Will show disk activity from the TF IDE port :)
So MHz to MHz the 68040 is just as fast as the 68060.The 50MHz 68060 is only twice as fast as a 25MHz 68040. What's going on here, SYSINFO shows the 68060 as 2.05 times as fast as a 68040 A4000.
I noticed that as well. It's a little surprising there's not a greater boost in speed, since the 060 is a superscaler architecture similar to the Pentium. Maybe there's a good reason Motorola abandoned the 060 in favor of the PPC architecture? I'm just not familiar enough with the Motorola chips to know why this benchmark doesn't show greater improvement.
@@stevesether Motorola switched to actual RISC, Intel switched to RISC-like cores; I wouldn't be surprised if both ran into similar issues when trying to scale up from the 060/Pentium for the successor.
Nice video, thanks for this! The TF1260 is somewhere in transit from Spain to my apartment now as I type so I must say I'm really hyped. :) Just hoping that it would work with the 3.1 ROM that I have and somehow would love to keep. If not, there's the 3.2 sitting somewhere in the drawer as well. :)
The new firmware also gives much faster chipmem access speeds, which is great! This means faster drawing to the screen, since the framebuffer is stored in chipmem.
Very interesting video Jan, as I also have a TF1260 (with LC060 though), which came with my Amiga. And I also have this transparent case... with the same issues you ran into some years ago (Floppy not quite fitting, same with PCMCIA slot, transparent Eject button for another Floppy drive model etc.)! 😉 25:28 I ran into some trouble installing the libs. The actual installing (system, update 3.2.1 and MMU libs done in WinUAE directly from CD) worked flawlessly. But Sysinfo 4.4 (and older) gives a message right at the beginning, that deals about the 68040 library which shouldn't run to make Sysinfo work properly (or something like that). I have to rename 68040.library so it won't boot with the Amiga and the message was gone. Do you have the 68040.library file in your libs folder after installing?
Indeed. I guess it got a bit better these days because there are vastly more people interested in the old hardware than 10-15 years ago. Probably still a lot that goes into the dumpster unfortunately.
Just a FYI: I have a TF1230 and my Amiga 1200 also still has a 3.0 ROM. You can use AddMem to configure it to see the fast ram. Probably works with the TF1260, too.
It's a nice card for the money. I had one for a while (and reviewed it), but I am holding out for either the new Vampire or maybe the Warp 060 card. I only had a spare LC CPU with no FPU so my 68040 Blizzard actually performed better for the FPU intensive programs I use on my Amiga (AdPro, ImageFX, etc). The LC is fine for most people of course.
The price for the TF1260 with CPU is actually very ok. Back in the late 90ies I bought a blizzard 1230-IV (for 350 DM maybe?), and I remember thinking about getting the blizzard 1260. It was about 600 or 700 DM (300 or 350 euros) IIRC, which was a little bit to expensive for me back then.
i always see the same 2 games on every 1260 video, it seems only doom and quake is possible with this card :D sarcasm off. i know that more is possible, but just strange nobody shows videos playback, mp3, etc. in today it seems like "well no video showed it on the inet, so why do you think this is possible?" like for the vampire, everybody only shows the same programms and later you know why.
Danke, Jan. I've got an A1200, and I have a new Vampire A1200 V2 accelerator I'm considering installing, which this video will possibly assist me with. However, I've been struggling with a 68060 accelerator on a new A4000D board I had custom made, that delivers a Guru message when the board is screwed down on the chassis, but works when it's loose! I think it's a loose connection on the motherboard, but this video might provide some alternative paths of thought.
I bought a blizzard 68060 card some 10 years ago, it was fast but pretty flakey. Sold it for £600 but I believe they are down to half that now, due to cards like this being so much better?
MIPS is not a great comparison benchmark between different processor architectures, but yes, a 64-bit CPU from 2014 is supposed to be that much faster than a 32-bit one from 1994. 20 years in CPU technology is a lifetime. To put that in perspective, if you’re measuring MIPS, a modern day smartphone would be faster than the world’s fastest supercomputer from 20 years ago.
@@little_fluffy_clouds and all that power is wasted on JavaScript and ads 😅 (awesome username btw, that was my introduction to making a whole track around a speech sample; as I suspect it was for many!)
It's going to get to the point where a 68060 core on an FPGA will be cheaper than the actual CPUs. There is already an FPGA 68060 core for the $200 XC3S1600E FPGA, that device being sold for under $100 before this damned chip shortage.
Jan: "I'm not sure if this much speed is necessary." Me: Well a 16 core 32 thread Ryzen 5950x based system with 64 gigs of ram isn't "necessary" for light gaming. I still want it. What good are toys if you can't crank them up to 11 purely for shits and giggles!!! 68060 Amiga go BRRRRR!!!
I have the Amiga retail version of quake that I used to run on my blizzrd 1260 @75MHz with a picasso iv on my 1260 back in the day. I used my Amiga for Imagine and lightwave back then. And still have it all with my Viper 1230 for fall back compatability. I guess thats the benefit of being a hoarder.
Get an all-copper low-profile heatsink on the chip. Mix JB Weld. Finger dab very light coat on both surfaces. Join them under slightly warm water, to ensure no air is trapped between them. Lift from bath and allow to cure for at least 24 hours. Install as normal. If you can engrave chip info on side of heatsink, do so. You won't be able to remove it later, but you'll always have cool processor.
Jan, you have nearly created the A1200 of Theseus! Why don't you find a replacement main board, then you can put the original board back in your original case with the original keyboard, hard drive, and accelerator haha
Jep, hab meinen ursprünglichen CF-Adapter mit Flachkabel (wie der von Jan) rausgeschmissen und hab 'nen SD-Adapter (der mit der zusätzlichen 90°-Platine) plus Micro-SD Verlängerung (ist RasPi-Zubehör!) eingebaut. Dank des Transparent-Gehäuses konnte ich die DVI-Blende für diese Verlängerung verwenden und ohne weitere Modifikation sogar noch 'nen Kippschalter zum ein/aus-schalten der TF einbauen. Jetzt hab ich meine System-Karte von hinten erreichbar, was doch SEHR komfortabel ist (und ich schon manches mal brauchte)!
@@TPau65 ich hab die an einem UDMA 100 getestet, schaffen auch max so 30MB/S aber die zugriffszeiten sind super und deutlich besser als die steinalten CF Karten. Dito die SDtoCF haben ja normale EIDE Anschuss, kann man mit Kabel gut positionieren.
@@tytusromek9267 SDtoCF? Um SD-Karten mit vorhandenem CFtoIDE-Adapter zu verwenden? 🤔 Hier mal meine erwähnte SD-Karten Lösung, mit der ich recht zufrieden bin: ruclips.net/video/PfQ5NKN7OI0/видео.html
It should in theory. Probably there’s other issues because of the hilarious speed it runs at but CPU emulation should be 68020/68030 compatible so a lot of older software should run better.
great video jan congrats on the 060s you realy have all the Bells and whistles now :p all you need now is a low profile cpu cooler like from a laptop and you'll have the belts and braces too.
Hi jan Does the TF60 card have issues booting to workbench 3.2.2? This is the 2nd time I reinstalled a fresh copy.of OS322 and still no luck with booting the card, i have the latest kickstart 321 with TF60 boot
The Warp is another level of a beast with all the added functionality. I like that approach a lot, too, but decided to go more "old school" with the pure accelerator card. It depends on what you prefer, I guess. :D (I haven't tried the Warp personally though, only read about it, my budget was barely enough for the TF!)
I already promised the second chip to a friend at this point, sorry. I'll let you know if they don't want it (it's going to take me a while to properly test it anyway). Also, thanks for working on Amiga Future, absolutely love it! :)
Jan I love the work safe sign in the background but there is now way that any company has ever worked the number of days that are on that sign safely and without any loss of time or production. Based on simple maths the original time worked was over 204 years and the current number of days is well over 203 years.
The amount of random crap you have to do with Amigas still amazes me. With RISC OS, the hard break was 3.5 because that's when it went from 26-bit (that had to do how condition flags were stored in R15) to truly 32 bit (which broke the way you're meant to save registers). It still blows my mind that 68K machines transitioned from a 16k bus to a 32k bus worse. Even with StrongARM involved.
Ihave the phase5 blizzard 1260 and if i forget to put the librarys and the cpu command in the c envelope it did not work. I learn this directly from the phase 5 when i had the problem in the year 1998
I _so_ wanted one of these A1200's back in the early 90s. But.... too expensive. Now I _sort_ of want one. But.... Too expensive! (These things sell for around $800 USD on ebay). Add in the HD and other accessories and you're up to $1000. Just too hard to justify for me. Maybe someday I'll try one of those accelerators for my A500. A lot easier to justify $180USD Nice job. Sounds like you're enjoying your one of the fastest Amigas alive!
I have got one with a 50Mhz full fat rev 6 CPU, on kickstart 3.2.1 and workbench 3.2.1. The next thing I want to do is do my own Kickstart roms so I can boot from the TF 1260 cards IDE port.
I think there are FPGA implementations of the 060 architecture already floating around but nobody has made them into an Amiga accelerator yet. Would be interesting to see if it can be done (it probably can)!
The 68060s don’t really need a cooler unless you overclock them. Mine gets lukewarm at most. Quite different from previous 680xx generations. The CPLDs on the card run WAY hotter.
Temperature of 68060? I removed Phase 5 accelerator card from A1200 because it tried to melt plastic inside with its hot Motorola CPU. remember, there is no cooling - no cooler, no fans, no airflow.
Hello I always follow you with great interest! I also have a TF1260 but with a Chinese MC68LC060 without FPU, paid 60 €, do you know where you can buy an XC68060RC at a decent price? Can you tell me how to create 3.1 kickstart with TF fast port eide drivers? thank you. Luigi
I don't know if you care(or if it would work) but that compact flash card adapter you have does have an LED, maybe you could connect that to the hard disk LED on the Amiga?
I have put my amiga in a laptop cooler think and it stays on that for ever. But in hot summer days i put an extra normal big fan for extra cooling. The desktop is very tricky and dangerous to be sure without cooling with a 68030 inside .
I'm seriously tempted to just attempt to make a couple of these. I *could* - it's just that there's a tiny little problem: I don't have an A1200 nor anyone I know does.
Hi retro folks, is there a way to emulate a cf Card, so that a device (like an amiga) thinks it is running directly from a drive but in reality the drive is just a piece of the ram of an raspberry pi or something like that
The most expensive area of old hardware, is the medical field. You can not just stuff something else into the machine, as you need the exact spare part for how the machine was tested and certified in the first place. That is what makes medical stuff so much more expensive than, lets say, the on the mill standard ET4000 gfx card.
Is true that my TF1260 with the Rev6 CPU don’t like WHDLoad. Because that i have a second A1200 with the Blizzard 1230 IV. I use the TF1260 only for 68060 Demos. For Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Quake 2 and Blood i use the Vampire V4 Standalone. Hope that soon i have the black keycaps for my black A500 from A1200NET. Strange that my ACA500Plus with the ACA1233n-55 is faster than the TF1260 with CF speed. Must do some great things with my C64’s such as FM YAM and SFX Sound Expander. And use my old floppies on the 1541-II diskdrive.
Hi I've had my Terrible Fire for a year now with using the hard drive interface and 3.2 Roms. Although I did not get the driver in the Rom so it takes a while to boot. Get the driver in your Roms would be quicker. I have recently had an issue that I hope you can help with since you assembled one. I disconnected the card and the reconnected it recently and now the Amiga thinks it is dead. Is the connector a bit tricky? It has a hard time since I purchased it. Once it's gong it's great but now I have 1MB memory since the Amiga 1200 runs without it now. It was sold to me by Retro32 and they have yet to reply.
Yup, the connectors can act up at times, it's quite a common problem. I would suggest trying to clean it thoroughly (a pencil eraser/rubber and some alcohol usually does it good job of that for me, you can also finish off with some non-corrosive contact cleaner after that). The TF1260 and the CPUs are generally pretty reliable as far as I've seen/heard.
@@JanBeta Thanks, but I think I have the misfortune of acquiring a non-offficial board (no logo) and may have non standard cheap parts onboard. I did the cleaning except the non-corrosive contact cleaner. What is that?
With the appropriate drivers installed on the Amiga, you should be able to just connect them via the IDE port on the TF card or the internal IDE on the Amiga. Both should work fine and be more or less plug and play.
To be honest, I never understood why the Amiga needed to be upgraded with such "powerful" accelerators. Will it perform at the same level as P233 for example? No. Can you use it as your main computer for web and other things? Technically yes, in reality no. Any old crappy PC will handle this better. 98% of the software is adapted for A500, A1200 and this is more than enough. So what's the point? Pay 300 yankee bucks and run Quake at 10 fps? LOL.
Basically it’s just a hobby and the joy some peeps (including myself) get out of these old school Amiga upgraded has no reasonable explanation. I think of it as the upgrade I could never afford back in the day.
There’s no practical reason for it, it’s just for fun if you have money to spare and you’re a die-hard Amiga fan. In truth, you can get an FPGA system like MiSTer which will simulate any Amiga nicely and can even run at a massively fast (100 Mhz) 020 + FPU mode, which is good enough to accelerate any Amiga software beyond what its designers had dreamed of. On top of that, MiSTer also simulates our other beloved vintage systems from Acorn, Atari, Sinclair and C64/128, so it’s the all-in-one solution.
@@anticat900 Its two different things: PPC adds not always usable accel. only WarpOS, powerUP and lighter OS4. If I would pick fast 604 with 040 or 060 with RTG gfx, I would pick latter
Yep, SysInfo is acting up a bit with several setups. I think the results I got in the end looked reasonable though (except for the fact that it wasn’t able to see the clock speed at all). :
The XC part number means "production prototype". The number is changed to MC when they are in production. It was not uncommon to see X parts in low volume products on the cutting edge. I was on the production prototype list in the late 1980s and would get X parts when developing DSP boards, but XSP56001 in that case.
You have to be brave to install something called Terrible Fire in your system.
I didn't mind the name until you pointed it out and now I'm recalling Mark's (from Mark Fixes Stuff) last year's dreadful misfortune for some reason.
Jolly Fire sounds much nicer
Amiga acccelerators always had strange names like Blizzard, Warp etc.
The reason kick 3.0 support was dropped was because i couldnt get autoconfig to behave with Mediator. So i put the ram where its autodetected in 3.1. I could release a separate firmware but then people would get them mixed up.
Please make a separate release or ship it, there are some die hards that never upgrade KS, stock AGA KS is 3.0
@@RasVoja Absolutely not. I simply cant support multiple options on 14 different cards.
@@TerribleFire I get it. But just 060, there arent that many options and there are big box Amigans
@@RasVoja My rules is one kickstart per machine. Usually 3.1 but I will work to support 3.2. Thats already too much for me to cope with. Upgrade to KS 3.1, buy a Warp or ACA1260. If i've not given in to supporting 1.3 on the A500 i'm really not going to give in to supporting 3.0 on a 1200.
@@TerribleFire 3.0 was more common, but 3.2.1 is softkiced nowadays. Too bad they push for new ROMS/soft kicked ROMs
Fantastic video Jan =D Welcome to the TF1260 club! Amazing pickups on the R6's =O The graphics glitches or slow downs / crashes etc - you need to experiment with NOCACHE, set NOAUTOVEC as a default for all WHDLOAD games, and NOMMU (all tool tips or set in the WHDLOADPrefs file). Almost everything I play on WHDLOAD works fine on an 060.
I set NOAUTOVEC in the WHDLoad.prefs (recommended in a WHDLoad video), but I couldn't find NOMMU. Or did you mean MMU, which has a " ; " in front for not being active. But it's said for 68030 use. 🤔
I also have a TF1260 (and the same case Jan has 😉) with LC060 btw.
And yes, you have to disable some (or one, can't remember) caches to make e.g. DREAD to work on the 060. Easiest way is using Sysinfo for this.
@@TPau65 NOMMU is set on the tool tip for the individual game!
@@GadgetUK164 As I'm new (again^^) in the Amiga world... tool tip is this "text area" when you rightclick on the game/program icon, information and then icon menu? Is there a list somewhere of what instructions can be used there in general? E.g. ADoom and ZDoom come with several pre-defined commands which could be activated/deactivated with brackets ( ) or semicolon ;.
Is it even possible to deactivate caches there, so you you don't have to use e.g. Sysinfo for that?
Thanks! I fiddled a bit with the options but didn’t get great results for some games (including my beloved Turrican, of all things!). I’m going to try to tinker with the options you suggested! :D
@@JanBeta I am sure I played loads of Turrican using the NOMMU and NOCACHE and didnt have a problem! I will re-test later for you! Check if there's a new .slave for the game too on the WHDLOAD website!
Very nice setup you have now! 060 is needed if you are into "modern" Amiga demoscene stuff. That would be my goto for content showing off your new setup with 060 rather than doom and quake :)
Your system was running into a Guru at the first attempt, because the 68060.library wasn't loaded. The Motorola 68060 doesn't support some 68020 instructions, specifically the "long" (64bit) multiply/division instructions which are used by Workbench and various parts of the A1200 ROM. These are software emulated after the 68060.library is loaded. So without it, the system would Guru. This is normal behavior on all 68060 accelerators.
TL;DR: install the 68060.library first, then install the accelerator itself. This is entirely safe. The 68060.library won't load when that CPU isn't present, and the system would keep functioning normally anyway with any CPU.
Good to know. Thanks.
Ah, that makes perfect sense, thanks!
Haha.. everyone seems to go this route.. (hello!).. first suffering, then read and learn about it.. and tada... aaah it works!!!
@@n00blamer Yeah, me who had a '040 based Amiga since 2001 (which is similar in the sense that it has a CPU library and emulated instructions) and a '060 based Amiga since 2003, it's fun to watch people discover this... I wish they would ask more, since this is trivial knowledge, and it is out there.
@15:26 I love how you reached for the power supply (to check for temperature/resonance) exactly in the moment I would have, hehehe
Yeah, I learned to be worried about power supplies pretty early on after starting working on vintage computers. :D
31:00 What's that "Comment: Phone Me NOW!!!" in the right column of the software supposed to mean?
Nothing! It's just a joke of the programmers and it's different, depending on the speed of your system. 😉
You have so great Amiga call me to test dat too, seen
@Jan Beta - You might be able to cool the CPU with a heat pipe heatsink. You might be able to find one in a junked laptop, they tend to use heat pipes to get heat from tightly-sandwiched cpus to the side of the case where the fan is.
If not, you can just buy one as a spare part. When the fan died on my laptop, I had to replace the whole heatsink as a unit because the fan is not a separate part. I was prepared to be annoyed but I think it was less than $10 so in the end I had nothing to complain about.
@@mal2ksc Also true. There are definitely shops online that sell fan+heatpipe assemblies for DIY repair. I've done that twice actually. So that's a good way to go look for something that might be the right shape.
I remember those vision cards. The one I saw was used in an industrial fruit sorting machine. It could detect bad fruit as it passed under the camera on a conveyor. It could also sort the size as well. It was very fast as the conveyor moved at quite a speed. Gates would open further up the line to redirect the sorted fruit.
Love my TF1260 and was lucky enough to have a full Rev.1 that runs nice and cool with only a small heat sink that works amazing with all WHDLoad games and as compatible as my Blizzard 030@50 with 3.2 roms and this was never the case with 060’s back with the old 3.1 roms with my experience
I just got an A1200 with Blizzard 1230 @ 50 and I have to ask… did your Blizzard run really hot? I have to leave the trapdoor open, lift the A1200 on higher feet and put a desk fan blowing on it, otherwise it’s so hot you can’t eve touch the table. Is that normal? Could I underclock it?
30:21 I like how the Comment part in SYSINFO reads "Phone me NOW!!!" I know with good (but not this spectacular) scores it says something like "Can you smell the burnt rubber?", the phone me, etc. part I reckon must mean something like "I have to know how did you get this high!".
Could always use this new power to play MODs that use 16 bit samples or lots of channels like with OctaMED Sound Studio or Symphonie Pro... I stumbled upon Symphonie Pro the other day, it's available on Aminet. It's a tracker geared towards high-powered Amigas with an 040/060.
I hope you thoroughly enjoy your 'new' amiga.
FWVLIW: My Blizzard 1260 + SCSI routinely runs at 80Mhz with a passive heatsink - it will go to 100Mhz with active cooling for safety and the Blizzard SCSI unplugged. The, um, best use I've found for a 060-equipped Amiga is to run it as a 68K Mac! Otherwise there's really only 68K versions of games that run better on a PPC, and the odd demo... unless you're enough of a masochist to do a bit of retro raytracing.
Thanks for your review and conclusion. I just got my Terrible Fire 1230 and its everything I will ever need.
Yes! 68030 is enough for most "common tasks" (and the vast majority of games) on the Amigas indeed. The 68060 experience is still kind of amazing for me (especially since the fastest I had was a 25MHz 68030 back in the day in my original Amiga 2000). :)
Finally, after so many years Doom is playable on Amiga! Thing that was just normal on 486DX4/100 ;) And Quake... well, let's add 3dfx.
Well, I played it back in the late 90ies on my Amiga with a 68030@50 CPU. Certainly was not great, but I could play it.
On a 68040 it was much more playable.
And ADoom was the first port of Doom for the Amiga, and it's not the fastest one.
Unsoldering the male IDE header and moving it to the bottom side of the TF1260 allows for an SD2IDE adapter to be used. The pin orientation happens to be just right and it will make your workbench easily accessible via the trapdoor (which can still be closed).
71E41J mask 060s can regularly eat up to 100 MHz when properly *actively* cooled and still be stable. On Atari Falcons with CT60 accelerators they usually run fine at 90 or 100 MHz, 90 being the speed of choice, when you got a CPU that isn't fully stable at 100. Active cooling, in that case, means a flat heat sink with a small fan on top, nothing extreme. If you can find a suitable cooling solution that fits under the keys, it may be worth while, doubling the clock speed...
True that. My Falcon runs at 95 Mhz and it's stable hours on end, with a CT60e + active cooling, my Amiga 1200 has a Warp1260 at 105Mhz (and stable, with active cooling), and my other Amiga 1200 with the TF1260 handles 95Mhz demo-watching runs like a champ. That has no active cooling yet, so I didn't want to push it beyond 64Mhz on longer-runs. All Rev.6, of course.
Motorola and ABB automation systems also use/have used 68k processors extensively. I don't know if the 060 has been very popular but at least 040s are pretty common. Might be different version not compatible with Amiga cards though.
You had Quake running about as fast as I could back in the day. Impressive.
You are right that 030 is better for WHD-Loader. I have an Tsunami-1230 in my 1200, and it is perfect for WHD-Loader. These 060's and PiStorm, Vampires and so on, is something I see for productivity stuff and not old school gaming.
If you purchase and install an IDE header terminator block and put it onto the 1200’s IDE header then the HDD LED Will show disk activity from the TF IDE port :)
Oh, I think I have one somewhere even, going to try that asap! Thanks for the tip! :D
@@JanBeta how did it go?
So MHz to MHz the 68040 is just as fast as the 68060.The 50MHz 68060 is only twice as fast as a 25MHz 68040. What's going on here, SYSINFO shows the 68060 as 2.05 times as fast as a 68040 A4000.
I noticed that as well. It's a little surprising there's not a greater boost in speed, since the 060 is a superscaler architecture similar to the Pentium.
Maybe there's a good reason Motorola abandoned the 060 in favor of the PPC architecture? I'm just not familiar enough with the Motorola chips to know why this benchmark doesn't show greater improvement.
Sys info is unoptimized test and 060 can go 75 to 100Mhz
@Ras Voja`s Rasta, Retro and Resistance to Babylon so basic lyrics it's just a higher binned chip
@@stephenkennedy6358 no it's pentium class
@@stevesether Motorola switched to actual RISC, Intel switched to RISC-like cores; I wouldn't be surprised if both ran into similar issues when trying to scale up from the 060/Pentium for the successor.
Nice video, thanks for this! The TF1260 is somewhere in transit from Spain to my apartment now as I type so I must say I'm really hyped. :) Just hoping that it would work with the 3.1 ROM that I have and somehow would love to keep. If not, there's the 3.2 sitting somewhere in the drawer as well. :)
It should work fine with 3.1 and above (except for booting from the TF1260 IDE) from what I’ve heard! Hope you enjoy your speedy A1200! ;)
@@JanBeta Cool, thanks!
The new firmware also gives much faster chipmem access speeds, which is great! This means faster drawing to the screen, since the framebuffer is stored in chipmem.
How does it speed up chip mem? Every solution I've seen has only been able to speed up fast mem.
@@Felice_Enellen The designer rewrote the logic for the 68060 card, to minimize chipmem speed losses.
I literally just ordered one of these and I expect it to arrive tomorrow. Thanks for posting this. :)
Very interesting video Jan, as I also have a TF1260 (with LC060 though), which came with my Amiga. And I also have this transparent case... with the same issues you ran into some years ago (Floppy not quite fitting, same with PCMCIA slot, transparent Eject button for another Floppy drive model etc.)! 😉
25:28 I ran into some trouble installing the libs. The actual installing (system, update 3.2.1 and MMU libs done in WinUAE directly from CD) worked flawlessly. But Sysinfo 4.4 (and older) gives a message right at the beginning, that deals about the 68040 library which shouldn't run to make Sysinfo work properly (or something like that). I have to rename 68040.library so it won't boot with the Amiga and the message was gone. Do you have the 68040.library file in your libs folder after installing?
Yesss 060 MMU holy grail!
Sad to think how much retro computer equipment is buried in trash dumps.
Indeed. I guess it got a bit better these days because there are vastly more people interested in the old hardware than 10-15 years ago. Probably still a lot that goes into the dumpster unfortunately.
Just a FYI: I have a TF1230 and my Amiga 1200 also still has a 3.0 ROM. You can use AddMem to configure it to see the fast ram. Probably works with the TF1260, too.
Ah, makes sense! That’s a great workaround, didn’t know that! Thanks for pointing it out!
It works, but due to the timing/sequencing it usually means exec.library is in Chip Mem. That’s doesn’t really help the performance. :)
@@marcianzero_yt Ah, i didn't know that 👍
It's a nice card for the money. I had one for a while (and reviewed it), but I am holding out for either the new Vampire or maybe the Warp 060 card. I only had a spare LC CPU with no FPU so my 68040 Blizzard actually performed better for the FPU intensive programs I use on my Amiga (AdPro, ImageFX, etc). The LC is fine for most people of course.
The price for the TF1260 with CPU is actually very ok.
Back in the late 90ies I bought a blizzard 1230-IV (for 350 DM maybe?), and I remember thinking about getting the blizzard 1260. It was about 600 or 700 DM (300 or 350 euros) IIRC, which was a little bit to expensive for me back then.
700dm with inflatation would be 572euro in today money
Mmmmmm sexy ceramic packages , you have to like ceramic packages , its a rule .
i always see the same 2 games on every 1260 video, it seems only doom and quake is possible with this card :D sarcasm off. i know that more is possible, but just strange nobody shows videos playback, mp3, etc. in today it seems like "well no video showed it on the inet, so why do you think this is possible?" like for the vampire, everybody only shows the same programms and later you know why.
Danke, Jan. I've got an A1200, and I have a new Vampire A1200 V2 accelerator I'm considering installing, which this video will possibly assist me with. However, I've been struggling with a 68060 accelerator on a new A4000D board I had custom made, that delivers a Guru message when the board is screwed down on the chassis, but works when it's loose! I think it's a loose connection on the motherboard, but this video might provide some alternative paths of thought.
I bought a blizzard 68060 card some 10 years ago, it was fast but pretty flakey. Sold it for £600 but I believe they are down to half that now, due to cards like this being so much better?
21:28 Intel Core i7-4790K Performance, 267.4 GFLOPS. That´s my 10 years old gaming PC and 68060 has 27 MFLOPS. That´s 10000 times slower
MIPS is not a great comparison benchmark between different processor architectures, but yes, a 64-bit CPU from 2014 is supposed to be that much faster than a 32-bit one from 1994. 20 years in CPU technology is a lifetime. To put that in perspective, if you’re measuring MIPS, a modern day smartphone would be faster than the world’s fastest supercomputer from 20 years ago.
@@little_fluffy_clouds and all that power is wasted on JavaScript and ads 😅
(awesome username btw, that was my introduction to making a whole track around a speech sample; as I suspect it was for many!)
It's going to get to the point where a 68060 core on an FPGA will be cheaper than the actual CPUs. There is already an FPGA 68060 core for the $200 XC3S1600E FPGA, that device being sold for under $100 before this damned chip shortage.
Jan: "I'm not sure if this much speed is necessary."
Me: Well a 16 core 32 thread Ryzen 5950x based system with 64 gigs of ram isn't "necessary" for light gaming. I still want it. What good are toys if you can't crank them up to 11 purely for shits and giggles!!! 68060 Amiga go BRRRRR!!!
I have the Amiga retail version of quake that I used to run on my blizzrd 1260 @75MHz with a picasso iv on my 1260 back in the day. I used my Amiga for Imagine and lightwave back then. And still have it all with my Viper 1230 for fall back compatability. I guess thats the benefit of being a hoarder.
Get an all-copper low-profile heatsink on the chip. Mix JB Weld. Finger dab very light coat on both surfaces. Join them under slightly warm water, to ensure no air is trapped between them. Lift from bath and allow to cure for at least 24 hours. Install as normal. If you can engrave chip info on side of heatsink, do so. You won't be able to remove it later, but you'll always have cool processor.
Jan, you have nearly created the A1200 of Theseus! Why don't you find a replacement main board, then you can put the original board back in your original case with the original keyboard, hard drive, and accelerator haha
XC68060RC50A mask appears to be Rev 5 to me... since i have the same mask id which is rev 5..
I do also have the TF1260 but with a Rev.1 Full CPU :) just need to upgrade the firmware :)
- Jan Beta : I'm in, you have to pull out
- Me : Honey is not what you think, I'm watching AMIGA porn!
Sind die SDtoEIDE adapter nicht besser, schneller sind die ncit aber die SD Karten Qualität ist besser und billiger sind die auch
Jep, hab meinen ursprünglichen CF-Adapter mit Flachkabel (wie der von Jan) rausgeschmissen und hab 'nen SD-Adapter (der mit der zusätzlichen 90°-Platine) plus Micro-SD Verlängerung (ist RasPi-Zubehör!) eingebaut. Dank des Transparent-Gehäuses konnte ich die DVI-Blende für diese Verlängerung verwenden und ohne weitere Modifikation sogar noch 'nen Kippschalter zum ein/aus-schalten der TF einbauen. Jetzt hab ich meine System-Karte von hinten erreichbar, was doch SEHR komfortabel ist (und ich schon manches mal brauchte)!
@@TPau65 ich hab die an einem UDMA 100 getestet, schaffen auch max so 30MB/S aber die zugriffszeiten sind super und deutlich besser als die steinalten CF Karten. Dito die SDtoCF haben ja normale EIDE Anschuss, kann man mit Kabel gut positionieren.
@@tytusromek9267 SDtoCF? Um SD-Karten mit vorhandenem CFtoIDE-Adapter zu verwenden? 🤔
Hier mal meine erwähnte SD-Karten Lösung, mit der ich recht zufrieden bin: ruclips.net/video/PfQ5NKN7OI0/видео.html
@@TPau65 hab ähnlichen adapter
Is the pistorm more compatible then the TF1260? i have to check out that pistorm soon :-)
It should in theory. Probably there’s other issues because of the hilarious speed it runs at but CPU emulation should be 68020/68030 compatible so a lot of older software should run better.
great video jan congrats on the 060s you realy have all the Bells and whistles now :p all you need now is a low profile cpu cooler like from a laptop and you'll have the belts and braces too.
Getting an Amiga to run with an AMD K6-2 500MHz would be real nice.😁
33:00 use an internet browser, Google Earth and RUclips at 1080p, Minecraft?
Belts and whistles. I'm gonna steal that one. Love it.
33:05 There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'reload'.
Always great to see Doom running on an Amiga. 🕹️
So satisfying, right?! 😅
Weird name for a product. Here's our new product, it's Terrible. :)
Hi jan
Does the TF60 card have issues booting to workbench 3.2.2? This is the 2nd time I reinstalled a fresh copy.of OS322 and still no luck with booting the card, i have the latest kickstart 321 with TF60 boot
No idea unfortunately! I haven’t updated to 3.2.2 yet I’m afraid. :/
Hello Jan, where are you from? Greetings from Gablonz am Neise. Having issues with my A600 / Furia config, can you advise, please?
I‘m in northern Germany. Please send me an email (address is available on janbeta.net) and we’ll see if I can help.
Hi jan,
Which do you prefer? Waro1260 or TF1260? I dont think its performance related but more (future) options upgrades
The Warp is another level of a beast with all the added functionality. I like that approach a lot, too, but decided to go more "old school" with the pure accelerator card. It depends on what you prefer, I guess. :D (I haven't tried the Warp personally though, only read about it, my budget was barely enough for the TF!)
Water cooled Amiga?🤣
A 50€ eMac is a good option, for me at least and it comes with everything including a CRT.
DiskMaster. Nice.
Hey Jan, Any way I could purchase one of these RC chips? Brad Hansen “Amiga Future” Journalist. San Diego, Ca.
I already promised the second chip to a friend at this point, sorry. I'll let you know if they don't want it (it's going to take me a while to properly test it anyway). Also, thanks for working on Amiga Future, absolutely love it! :)
Could you solve the HDD led problem in TF1260?
Thank you
I haven't really looked into it but there seem to be some solutions with some added wiring.
Jan I love the work safe sign in the background but there is now way that any company has ever worked the number of days that are on that sign safely and without any loss of time or production. Based on simple maths the original time worked was over 204 years and the current number of days is well over 203 years.
The numbers are actually just a reference to some of my favorite tv series. Maybe Google has the answers you are looking for. ;)
The amount of random crap you have to do with Amigas still amazes me. With RISC OS, the hard break was 3.5 because that's when it went from 26-bit (that had to do how condition flags were stored in R15) to truly 32 bit (which broke the way you're meant to save registers). It still blows my mind that 68K machines transitioned from a 16k bus to a 32k bus worse. Even with StrongARM involved.
Ihave the phase5 blizzard 1260 and if i forget to put the librarys and the cpu command in the c envelope it did not work. I learn this directly from the phase 5 when i had the problem in the year 1998
Alles gute und viel spass mit unseren Amiga!!!!
I _so_ wanted one of these A1200's back in the early 90s. But.... too expensive.
Now I _sort_ of want one. But.... Too expensive! (These things sell for around $800 USD on ebay). Add in the HD and other accessories and you're up to $1000. Just too hard to justify for me.
Maybe someday I'll try one of those accelerators for my A500. A lot easier to justify $180USD
Nice job. Sounds like you're enjoying your one of the fastest Amigas alive!
I have got one with a 50Mhz full fat rev 6 CPU, on kickstart 3.2.1 and workbench 3.2.1. The next thing I want to do is do my own Kickstart roms so I can boot from the TF 1260 cards IDE port.
looking forward to an All-in-One solution card.
memory,clock,acceleration& digital display output !
If only you could clone those chips. Doubt Motorola would give a darn.
I think there are FPGA implementations of the 060 architecture already floating around but nobody has made them into an Amiga accelerator yet. Would be interesting to see if it can be done (it probably can)!
you have yo put a cooler on that cpu,please do it , i will start having nightmare's about thatt cpu
The 68060s don’t really need a cooler unless you overclock them. Mine gets lukewarm at most. Quite different from previous 680xx generations. The CPLDs on the card run WAY hotter.
Temperature of 68060? I removed Phase 5 accelerator card from A1200 because it tried to melt plastic inside with its hot Motorola CPU. remember, there is no cooling - no cooler, no fans, no airflow.
Hello I always follow you with great interest! I also have a TF1260 but with a Chinese MC68LC060 without FPU, paid 60 €, do you know where you can buy an XC68060RC at a decent price? Can you tell me how to create 3.1 kickstart with TF fast port eide drivers? thank you. Luigi
I don't know if you care(or if it would work) but that compact flash card adapter you have does have an LED, maybe you could connect that to the hard disk LED on the Amiga?
oooo upgrades, nice!
I have put my amiga in a laptop cooler think and it stays on that for ever. But in hot summer days i put an extra normal big fan for extra cooling. The desktop is very tricky and dangerous to be sure without cooling with a 68030 inside .
Was the A1000 chip set the precursor to the modern multicore systems?
No, modern multicore is multiple CPU threads. But if you look at PC as CPU plus gfx chip plus sound chip then is
I'm seriously tempted to just attempt to make a couple of these. I *could* - it's just that there's a tiny little problem: I don't have an A1200 nor anyone I know does.
That´s good fun! I thought about reworking the A3640 to carry a 060 for our trusty A3000
Hi retro folks, is there a way to emulate a cf Card, so that a device (like an amiga) thinks it is running directly from a drive but in reality the drive is just a piece of the ram of an raspberry pi or something like that
The most expensive area of old hardware, is the medical field. You can not just stuff something else into the machine, as you need the exact spare part for how the machine was tested and certified in the first place. That is what makes medical stuff so much more expensive than, lets say, the on the mill standard ET4000 gfx card.
Is true that my TF1260 with the Rev6 CPU don’t like WHDLoad. Because that i have a second A1200 with the Blizzard 1230 IV. I use the TF1260 only for 68060 Demos. For Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Quake 2 and Blood i use the Vampire V4 Standalone. Hope that soon i have the black keycaps for my black A500 from A1200NET. Strange that my ACA500Plus with the ACA1233n-55 is faster than the TF1260 with CF speed. Must do some great things with my C64’s such as FM YAM and SFX Sound Expander. And use my old floppies on the 1541-II diskdrive.
Nice collection there! It's also a good excuse to have multiple systems if some do certain things better than others. ;)
Have buy now a ZX Spectrum 48K with a Smartcard V3. There is always a good excuse to buy old computers and enjoy it.
You of course watched my videos for this and were motivated to give it a go. :)
Great video as always. It's always a good morning when I wake up to a new Jan vid.
October 2021? 🧐
why dont you do light weight virtual machine jit translation for compatibility
Hi I've had my Terrible Fire for a year now with using the hard drive interface and 3.2 Roms. Although I did not get the driver in the Rom so it takes a while to boot. Get the driver in your Roms would be quicker. I have recently had an issue that I hope you can help with since you assembled one. I disconnected the card and the reconnected it recently and now the Amiga thinks it is dead. Is the connector a bit tricky? It has a hard time since I purchased it. Once it's gong it's great but now I have 1MB memory since the Amiga 1200 runs without it now. It was sold to me by Retro32 and they have yet to reply.
Yup, the connectors can act up at times, it's quite a common problem. I would suggest trying to clean it thoroughly (a pencil eraser/rubber and some alcohol usually does it good job of that for me, you can also finish off with some non-corrosive contact cleaner after that). The TF1260 and the CPUs are generally pretty reliable as far as I've seen/heard.
@@JanBeta Thanks, but I think I have the misfortune of acquiring a non-offficial board (no logo) and may have non standard cheap parts onboard. I did the cleaning except the non-corrosive contact cleaner. What is that?
I would have liked to see how it runs with AB3D2
Killer Grounds should test 060, TFX too
How to run optical drives?
With the appropriate drivers installed on the Amiga, you should be able to just connect them via the IDE port on the TF card or the internal IDE on the Amiga. Both should work fine and be more or less plug and play.
... wieder viel gelernt. Tolle Informationen. Da sollte ich mal einen meiner Amigas wieder auspacken, wenn da nix anderes ansteht.
I'm losing my mind over the title music you are using, what game is it from...
Flip & Flop, C64
@@erwin-1660 thanks a bunch. Couldn't get my head around it, although I've played that a lot in my youth 😊
To be honest, I never understood why the Amiga needed to be upgraded with such "powerful" accelerators. Will it perform at the same level as P233 for example? No. Can you use it as your main computer for web and other things? Technically yes, in reality no. Any old crappy PC will handle this better. 98% of the software is adapted for A500, A1200 and this is more than enough. So what's the point? Pay 300 yankee bucks and run Quake at 10 fps? LOL.
Basically it’s just a hobby and the joy some peeps (including myself) get out of these old school Amiga upgraded has no reasonable explanation. I think of it as the upgrade I could never afford back in the day.
There’s no practical reason for it, it’s just for fun if you have money to spare and you’re a die-hard Amiga fan.
In truth, you can get an FPGA system like MiSTer which will simulate any Amiga nicely and can even run at a massively fast (100 Mhz) 020 + FPU mode, which is good enough to accelerate any Amiga software beyond what its designers had dreamed of. On top of that, MiSTer also simulates our other beloved vintage systems from Acorn, Atari, Sinclair and C64/128, so it’s the all-in-one solution.
only on amiga....it works!!!!!!!!!! =)
nice computer and wicket video
Would like to see an original ppc accelerator and it compares to this 68060?
Unfair Blizz can contain 060 abeit slower clock so will lose any m68k calls unless Petunia OS4 is used and its 604
@@RasVoja Checked a few videos and it seems the PPC is a little faster if less compatible?
@@anticat900 Its two different things: PPC adds not always usable accel. only WarpOS, powerUP and lighter OS4. If I would pick fast 604 with 040 or 060 with RTG gfx, I would pick latter
No one made an FPGA-based 68060 replica yet?
There’s the Vampire cards which use an FPGA-based updated 68060 architecture they call the 68080.
Fully with MMU sadly not
@@JanBeta It does not have MMU and their AGA reimplementation is less compat. Other than that 080 is nicely done
Does someone has list of software/games which won't run on a 68060?
Mostly 00 dirty apps and some OCS games
There is a known issue with 68060 and current version of sysinfo.
Yep, SysInfo is acting up a bit with several setups. I think the results I got in the end looked reasonable though (except for the fact that it wasn’t able to see the clock speed at all). :
At least a New video!!!
looks like a bunch of fun!
excellent, thanks Jan