One very valid thing real amps are better at is latency, its also the reason why trivium went back to the 5150 heads instead of Kemper's, sure a Kemper is under like 10ms but when you have added latency from long runs and stuff that 10ms can be the difference between feeling in time or not, its never gonna be an issue for bands on small stages but as things become more complex sometimes its best to keep the important stuff as simple as you can.
Love this vid... You NAILED IT!! Ive been playing metal 41 yrs.. played live, signed a record deal where i appeared on disc w members of Motley crue, done guest solo appearences on artists Cds, etc. done a lot. I have 2 100w marshall head and cabs, WHY would I need a modeler(which cant push air like a tube amp can) when i can have the REAL THING? Call me old fashioned or stubborn to change, but ill NEVER give up my Tube amp heads
Amps are cool, and so are modelers, but I've got to admit, plugins are my go to. I have the amps that I want and I don't have to feel like I'm wasting functionality of a modeler by ignoring the amp models I am not interested in, and I don't have a unit taking up space, since I'm using my laptop which is used for other things. Sure, plugins share a few of the same caveats as modelers, but I don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on a tube amp and a cabinet, or have the issues of having to pay a fine for violating local noise ordinances.
And that's why I sold the helix, bought the Pod Go and now wish I hadn't. I like modelers. Oh I have a 66 bassman, but it hasn't been fired up in 20 years. Best bang for the buck is one of the modelers like a Valeton GP200 which I picked up for a super deal. Once I sell the Pod Go, I'll have all I need (until the next great thing comes out.).
Feel is not the basic action of touching an amp. There’s shit under your fingers translating through the amp that the modelers doesn’t produce, and I say that as someone that’s been playing an Axe 3 for a year.
2024 and I just traded my last modeler for an old Crate tube amp. I can't take it any more. All I ever do with modelers is fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, fiddle trying to get it to play like a real amp. Then I give up, plug into a tube amp, and there it is. Exactly what I've been trying to dial in for HOURS, and no fiddling required. IDC any more, I will play tube amps until the parts supply dries out. Hopefully not in my lifetime. The little clips you show that show all those graphic settings, amp sag, tube bias, la la la la la....that is THE reason I won't mess with modelers any more. Not to mention real guitar speaker cab (good) vs. FRFR with cab and mike emulation (horrible, no thrust, none of that wonderful, delicious speaker/string interaction/feedback). And they just keep adding more and more options and menus as time goes by.
TH -U is my main rig, despite owning several tube amps and pedals. Tube amps are just cumbersome for recording and I don't find their sound quality to be a lot better either
Damn, the tube mafia got you. Understood. They're all great. I prefer amps more for the personal playing feel but when it comes to recording and practicality, especially recording, modellers and plugins are far more feasible going forward. Also, speaking of practicality when it comes to setting up a tone via a signal chain in modellers; there are definitely cases of people spending plenty of time and labour messing about with their fairly elaborate pedal boards that go into those amps. Personally, one can have a decent amp that is central to one's tone/sound, but modelling tech can always be used in conjunction with an amp to enhance the options and even emulate another amp while powering it with the power amp section of one's own tube amp.
Definitely hit me with that "fEeLs BrO" section; I have always loved learning how my amps work. Modellers I can almost always dial in with a minute or two because of all the reasons you stated here with their EQ conrols. As far as the "tone" section, the biggest issue I have ran into is that modellers have a hard time recreating the "power amp falling apart under stress" thing that you get from really cranking a tube amp to it's maximum levels. I think this could also tie into the "feel" thing as well. As far as what is next, honestly, I think there will be a plateau effect, unless (as you said) new amp companies grab the torch and modelers copy and then repeat all of that again. I think the problem that lies there unfortunately goes back to pushing amps beyond their designed limits and the fact that MOST modern amp builders rely more on preamp distortion rather than "my amp is going to break" distortion. So that sets the stage for the plateau effect to remain a constant because modelers can recreate preamp tones so well now. I think amp companies are going to have to really bring something new to the table rather than just adding noise gates or boosts to the preamp in order to maintain any future relevance. Legacy only can go so far, it may take 100 years, but that really ain't a lot of time in the world. I think something legitimately new and out of this world designed into amps is the only avenue that should be considered, otherwise all the remains is the status quo. Then again, we would have to convince people that change is good as well.
Convincing people change is good is probably about the hardest thing there is to do. No one likes change, unfortunately it’s the only thing that ever remains the same.
One more thing to add...and this is coming from someone that has tried ever so hard to fall in love with modellers. They just are missing something...and that is, the feel of a real amp. Its like you're playing something that's artificially real. Like a Beyond Burger or something. Lastly, I have not once, heard anyone use them live and sound good. Happy to be proven wrong - (I'm not talking about big bands with insane sound techs. I'm talking local bands using kempers/helix etc. Either they sound totally shit and sterile OR you can barely hear in a mix. I rocked up to one night with my amp, albeit a Katana and at the very least I was audible. Picking up a 5150 tomorrow. Playing a real amp after a while of digital crap is like a holy experience.
i hated feeling at risk of my modeller crashing before a gig. yes, i know valves fail, but i kept my fingers crossed every time i powered up my headrush. sold it before it happened. back to my valve amp and get so much more inspired from it's tone.
I get you, but if I hate something about tube amps, is that they are no where as diverse than modelers. If you play live enough, you understand that diversity highly improves the show. Amps are limited so I would leave it for home recreational activity or as a studio tool
@@ClaimedEagle tried digital processors live for a year. I'm more old school and preferred amp and a couple of pedals. manipulate tones with guitar controls/pick attack and set and forget amp, two channels though. it works best for me. less tweeking, more playing.
Great video, Taylor. You made some excellent points. I like both tube amps and modellers, but modellers are more forgiving (so I guess that means tube amps have more feel). My biggest problem with using tube amps is that I haven't come across a good enough reactive load box at a decent price yet that is equal to the line out on most amps. I just returned a Captive X. I wonder what the Suhr reactive load is like.
your "convenience" point. it's actually more convenient to use an acoustic guitar, just don't bother to use an electric and plug in to a tube amp. no knobs or anyting to touch. modelers are more complicated because you can do more with them. yes, there is an initial learning curve but once you get the tone you need then you're set. and modelers now have easier user interfaces
Yeh seems a lot of marketing behind digital stuff, when you ask a pro guitarist what they prefer they nearly always say a tube amp, the digital thing is mainly for convenience it seems, some people seem to love it tho.
Hated digital for decades. Tried Axe1 ultra when they came out. Comparably to everything previous it was pretty good. Did not best my 30 year old tube rig though. Sold it. Bought fm3 few months back loaded Cygnus. The fight is over. Other than the slight difference in feel in a lot of ways it's better honestly.
I think you are right. i have a Boss Katana and I set what i liked on the clean channel and use pedals. It really just makes me want a tube amp because I think they sound better and just for simplicity sake.
I honestly think that specifically Profiling units CAN sound exactly like amps but feel is something that is yet to be replicated cause of just physics via Tube ve Solid State Circuitry
Obviously the real tube amp is the best thing but the modellers are so ridiculously close now that only nerds will tell the difference. The main factors is also price, space requirement. Those tube amps and pedals soon add up whereas u can get all the pedals and amps worth having in one board at a fraction of the costs opening up way kore tonal possiblities than the real thing
1) Agree. 2) Mostly Disagree. You only have to do it once. Which is an equivalent step of choosing the one amp you want to buy in the shop. Having a modeller is like having the whole shop in a box. If you set up your amp modeller to do as much as a single amp can do, no further tweaking is required. Just plug and play. You will tweak only if you want to. No one is forcing you to. 3) Agree 4) Disagree that loudness is an advantage. Still, it's not the modellers fault, it's the amps fault that a modeller is not loud... 5) Dun care...
I like both...I own a Kemper,Line 6 stuff and about 13 tube amps. It's almost like the Midi/sample player keyboard stuff from the 80s....suddenly you could play piano or strings on a digital keyboard....if it sounds good , it sounds good....BUT I would be disappointed if Keith Richards or Eric Clapton would start to use Kempers,Line 6 or Fractals
One thing that has solved the issue of you modeler becoming outdated is the fact that these things have been getting regular firmware updates and continued support. I think that has a lot to do with the design of these things have gotten so good, that they no longer need to release new hardware but once every 10 years or more, and only need to shoot a new update with new amps, effects, etc. At this point, modelers are basically future proof. Just keep the updates coming, we don't need new hardware.
But both cars get you to the same destination lol my argument is all tube amps become digital through signals such as steaming radio or through a pa. Tubes blow more likely that a fractal taking a dump lol . I love tube amps but becoming obsolete really.
Old modelers don't become "irrelevant". I have an HD500x that I still use today. Yes, the "newer" modelers are more used than old ones, the same way you use your "more" favourite tube amp than your other ones. I'm only wrong if you use all your tube amps equally.
One thing that’s disappointing with modelers is I feel the boosts do not interact with the modeler amp heads as they do in real life. That and no one can seem to get a dual rec right.
I like the point that modelers are just a copy, no one would buy any modeling amp if it won't tell them it sounds like any of the big names, it's making money with these names, nothing more. Even if they sound good. Seems like a modern innovation and at some point it is, but also at some point it's not, because everyone uses them to sound like Marshall, Orange, Mesa... no relevant new tones are created by modelers. Another important thing: the don't look as good as a real amplifier :)
1000% You nailed it. The Modeller snobs always like to make the point that it's innovative and if it were around in the 60s or 70s people would use that - but it's not breaking any new ground it's just a photo collection of tones from the past in a handy box.
Marshall valve amps are great they forgot the majority of consumers wanted.. Modeling amps becomes a hammer, it has marketing.. and it works.. like a hammer
the "feel" point. does it really matter that the curve on tone knobs differ from tube amps and modelers? there are loads of videos of very experienced guitar players a/b testing real amps and modelers blindfolded and not knowing which is which. tone is not "good" because the tone changes from this to this when you turn the knob from 1 to 2 o clock. good tone is good tone, because it sounds a certain way
Speaking as a total tone snob... One variable no one seems to discuss when it comes to tone is in the live setting. I've recently acquired a Quad Cortex and have used it several times in a live setting. Even though I captured my own amplifier in multiple configurations, head only-paired with a digital cab or IR, head cab + mic, head into CaptorX with different paid IRs, it still lacks something when standing out front compared to a mic 'ed amp on the stage. I think firstly there is the bleed factor. At least in relatively smaller venues. a miced amp projects sound off the stage. I think that additional sound compliments the sound the PA is reproducing. Next, the vocal mics on stage all contribute to that sound too even if only a small amount. Any mic that's not gated, really. I can never get a faithful reproduction out of any of these digital alternatives. Usually there is an odd and annoying frequency that cannot be corrected with EQ and it just sounds like something is missing. Sure, the audience doesn't care. But I do. I'm now done with the QC. That makes the 7th attempt to leave my Tube amp at home. I don't care how good these things get. Taylor made the most salient point: A good tube amp will never be obsolete. And what am I going back to? A 1984 2203 JCM 800.
Another really big reason for me not really getting into the high-end amp modeler is the amp models are all ONE CHANNEL. Hear me out...the Line 6 Helix, the Axe FX, Neural Quad Cortex, even the Headrush have their Snapshots/Scenes/etc., that can change the parameters and/or disable the blocks built in the preset, which is fine and very handy. One big thing for me with this was to still have delays and reverbs trail off when changing sounds and turning those off when I switch from a solo sound to a rhythm sound. That's fine if I have an amp block in that preset that is mainly a high gain model and can just switch the parameters such as gain and mids to get a "boosted" solo snapshot/scene, but if I have to switch to a clean sound (which I do very often), either I have to have ANOTHER amp block with a clean amp model, which I don't want to do if my preset is already filled up and taking processing power, or the modeler is limited and I have to switch to another preset and thereby getting rid of the reverb and delay trail offs and getting that split second of audible silence in between the switch. If these companies can get around to having amp models with at least a clean channel and distortion channel, I'd get one of these in a heartbeat. Until then, I have the Line 6 HX Effects running into my B-52 AT-100 with the snapshots changing the channel on the amp head along with other sounds changing and such as described above.
Lots of bonuses when using a modler,specially for effects, and I look at Metallica using and touring with Fractal.lighter.portable. no maintenance, but none of that matters if you dont get the tone and feel you want. Im old school.I love tube amps. modelers have their place I guess, if it sounds good it is good. I play through two amps.one is a solid state,one is a tube amp. all my effects are analog, I get bragged on my tone all the time. if I can acheive that easier I will. but we aint there ...yet
In general people need to worry about gear less and playing more. If a player hasn't put in at least 10000 hours at this point, they shouldn't even be talking about gear yet. Like most good players, when you play, it doesn't matter much what you're playing on, it still sounds like Taylor. That's the thing people need to start to understand.
@@TaylorDanley Sure there's minute differences with amps, sometimes they vary a decent amount but the player still matters a lot more. Once you get past the threshold of quality enough gear, it's basically all the same. Play better, gear less :P
Its really simple - for the same money i can have 1 tube amp or i can have a high end modeller and have 'all' the amps... Plus i can also take my exact studio tone live if need be... As for playing live, there are plenty of good/loud powered full range cabs... And no, they dont sound 'better' anymore, in fact most people cant even tell the difference... But yeah it all just comes back to the money, 1 tube amp or 1 high end modeller with 'all' the amps...?
Hey I've been hurt by the Valveking remark! 😄 🤣 no but seriously, please demo a 100w VK they can be had for dirt cheap and....and.....I even prefer it over my 6505+.!!
How loud should your amp be? There's this thing called mics, they point it to speakers of real amps that gets fed to a PA system or recording gear. Even a 5 watt amp is sufficient. Unless you play mindless distorted metal that you call music you won't need ear damaging amps
While im a valve amp and a digital user, you sort of missed the pros of the digital stuff, like they are much smaller, doesnt weigh a ton, you can transport them for live much easier, theres no valves (tubes) to wear out break or replace, you can record/play with them at low volume at home etc..I have a jcm800 Kerry King Marshall/Evh 5153, Mesa 4 x 12 and all the neural, ML sound labs stuff etc..they all have their place, but I agree Valve amps are deffo way cooler
Yet nearly a decade later, there are still pros out there touring with the AxeFX Ultra, and the AX8. Then there's the AxeFX 2 which is still the foundation of countless live rigs. Outdated, underpowered DSP is more of an issue for Line 6 customers. Fractal has it covered. The AxeFX 3 or FM9 are just about perfect, so until the units burn out, they will be providing tones already indistinguishable from anything analog for many years just like their predecessors.
At this point most of the gigs I do are cover band types. Here is one thing I've noticed. If I am playing a hall with a great FOH setup and pro at the board, that modeler will sound amazing, however, at bars/clubs I like an amp. Why? Because I can't "trust" the sound guy often. There is nothing worse than having a "perfect" mix in a rock setting but it sounds too clinical or lacks power because the guitar is hitting the crowd in the face. When that happens and I have a bum sound guy, I can crank up my tube amp a bit more. It will impact the mix a bit but overall the power you need will be there. Also, you will play better and you know we guitarists love to be blasted by our cabs.
To me the point of a modeller wasn't to replace tube amps, but to compliment them. Many modellers let you ton print your sound so you can bring it on tour much easier.
Hybrids that’s next. Revv is doing it peavey is doing. Mesa just started it orange is also. Next you’ll see everyone jumping on the bandwagon with di outs hopefully using external use of your own cab irs. A 10lb amp with a 10-15lb one 12 cab will definitely start seeing more light of day.
Haha, a series of videos where you make an argument followed by a video to argue with the first video lol If I were A/B’ing back and forth, I think maybe I could tell the digital from the analog, maybe… In a live setting, I’m sure I would never be able to tell. If I’m being honest, I don’t know if I’m bias or not, but my amps inspire me more than my digital. I just like playing live with digital because of the convenience.
Might be a stupid question but couldn’t you put a modular in front of a tube amp and blend the two and have the best of both worlds? I’m fairly new to modulars so be nice 🤙🏻
Not a stupid question. You can certainly use a tube power amp and have a hybrid setup. I did this for a long time, but then ended up buying a Sold State power amp. The biggest difference wasn’t tone, it was the weight. The tube amp weight ~ 50 lbs, the solid state weighed ~ 7. My tube power amp has lived in a rack in my studio ever since.
I have some modelers , but even if they are effective, i get a bad feeling with the modeler, But my Peavey, or Zombie II sounds great now and tomorrow, ;D Thank´s Taylor
Truth. I read someone saying: 10 years ago - You use a modeller?? Why don't you pony up like a REAL guitarist and spend 3 grand on a tube amp. Now - You use a tube amp?? Why don't you pony up like a REAL guitarist and spend 3 grand on Axe F/X.
What I hate about modelers is that you always have to negotiate with them in order to get an OK sound. Tweaking is mostly a struggle. Having too many options is also bad for your creativity. A good amp will sound great immediately as you plug into it. I think they also force you to become a better guitar player and make the most of what you have.
@@chopholtz4950 Plug-ins are too flattering and make you believe you're a better player than you really are. I use both plug-ins and tube amps and I can tell you that my tube amps force me to be a much more accurate player since every little noise or mistake will be heard in the amp.
@@gambooyt Do tell. What are these magical plugins that make you believe you're a better player than you are? Sounds like an argument I had with some over 5150 and Dual Rectifier. This guy claimed he liked 5150 better because it didn't hide your mistakes like the a Mesa does. Absolutely absurd notion that was not backed up by any proof. Guitarist make up so much nonsense about gear there needs to be a term for it.
@@BillPinkNye Plugins allow me to play faster and are above all more forgiving than tube amps. Amps always require me to be much more accurate because their sound is much less compressed, if that makes sense. I get much better at the guitar when I practice on an amp, rather than with plug-ins. Every guitarist will tell you that some pieces of gear are more forgiving than others-that's actually a trite observation.
@@gambooyt Again I ask. What are these magical plugins? I've used plenty and none of them suddenly make me a faster player. You do what so many other guitarists do. Making some bold claims with no evidence what so ever.
Well, there's more reason to sell my amps, dude: 1) Too heavy (150 Ib to 250 Ib) to load & unloaded to a gigging and/or rehearsals, 2) No more place in my house, 3) Hate needing to my preamps and power amps, 4) Hate hunting to find a good service to fix my amp (and it can get pricy), and 5) I have multiple type songs and ONE amp won't work to a gig. 25 years ago, I wished someone would make a good pedal so I can just put it in bag. AND Now......we finally got: Fractal, Helix, GT1000, Headrush, Cortex, Kemper, etc. Yee Hah! No my friend, you can keep you 250 Ib amp. I'll keep my modeler pedals. 😅
IDK the Thomas Blug amp 1 Mercury edition or the iridium edition is pretty fucking amazing I personally can't believe it.. even the sag is almost so close it's scary!
Line6 kills everyone else in terms of "get a usable tone FAST!". Fractal units probably have incredible potential, but man they take ages to get good tones out of, even when you know exactly how they work. Also, modeled negative feedback stuff is common in top shelf modelling tech.
👀 . Actually it was just kind of fun to write these videos, and sort of challenging in a way. I don’t think there should be a fence, people can like whatever they want to like, and if it makes you happy that’s all that matters!
Quality of tone and player interaction goes to the Tube Amp. It is substantial and so is lugging it from gig to gig. Modelers are good for getting an idea of what amp and pedals works best for you and can save a new player years of amp and pedal trading. Like anything, a new sound can inspire. Being able to sample your amp collection and take a light weight close imitation is becoming the new norm and actually ideal for multi genre acts or or touring your latest Album.
And also, Guitars tend to increase in value moreso than Amps. But it is true for studio gear the real deal is money recoverable over plugin versions. But it is true the modlers are at risk of being superseded.
Preface, have yet to watch the other video on Modellers. But one, certainly I, can make an argument for Modellers being better with the same 5 pts you just used. Or in some cases, what you put as positive for tube amps, actually isn't. For instance, 1 Longevity isn t really. For one, even though a new version of a modeller comes out, it doesn't make the old one, any less usable. THis is a fallacy. It just means it will be the same moving forward, after it no longer gets updates. Tube Amps, don't get updates. No difference. IN FACT, as tube amps change, they have crucial components that age and effect tone. It isn't always good. A tube amp WILL have to be recapped if you have it any number of years. Those same physical pots that give that tactile feel (Which MANY moddelers now have as well) will go bad. That is just one example.
Irrelevant? The single biggest factor in my purchase of a Kemper, is that it will be future proof, no matter what happens with amplifier tech. Other modelers will(and have) come out, faster, smaller,cheaper, but as long as amplifiers create analog sound, the Kemper, and the like, can profile it. Fractal has already stopped any specific model firmware, prior to the XL, and Line 6 is well known to not invest anything into their legacy products. I like new, shiny objects, and blinking lights like the next guy, but i cannot imagine a future scenario where a Kemper will not be able to do what it does.
1) Lifespan. If the tones were great on older device, you can get those much cheaper. This is good news for us poor asses 2) Convenience. Hardware processors are miles more convenient than old tube technology. Then you're done dialing tones you can instantly get into playing the guitar and creating music with album worthy tones without additional spends on cabs, mics, pedals, acoustic treatment, loudboxes, etc. 3) FeEL. If tone is saturated enough feel is great. 4) Loudness. Take care of your hearing, before you get a tinnitus. 5) With modellers you can create impossible tones without destroying your gear and relationships 😁
#3 and #4 are problems, not advantages. 😃 Regarding #1: time will tell. Who says you have to own the latest version of a modeler? Maybe the one you have already does everything you need. I also expect fewer "quantum leaps" in modeling technology in the future. There's gonna be some more major steps and after that, the gap will be largely closed so I think that in the not-so-distant future, you won't be going "I can't believe we used to think this sounded REAL!" every few years any more. #5 Well you gotta go off of something, right? Right now we're crossing from one type of technology to the next, so it's natural that the new is trying to offer everything the old did. But partially this is also because guitar players are this ridiculous, conservative bunch. You just HAVE to have the words vintage, warm, classic tones etc. in there in order to generate any interest in a new technology at all. It's kinda like everything's gluten free nowadays, only in reverse (ass backwards). I think this will also start to change further down the road. As time goes by, more and more younger generation players are simply interested in practical features and an exciting sound and less enamored with mythology, and I'm sure at some point we'll be seeing "modeling" amps that don't try to replicate some piece of tube gear, but do their own thing. I agree with #2. It's fucking boring. I'd like to see a modeling amp that isn't trying to be this endless cornucopia of tonal options. As if anyone needed 128 amps, 80 cab sims and 300 effects at their disposal. Usually you default to that certain bunch of personal presets that fit your needs and style anyway. I'd be way more interested in modeling amps if there were options with only a few basic variations of the usual clean, crunch, heavy and lead channels, a few distinctive IRs and some bread-and-butter FX - and cost me a few 100 bucks instead of 2 grand and more.
Yeah, we'll just have to see what happens in the future. I think that modelers are the obviously much more convenient option, and when I'm playing using something like the axefx, helix or quad cortex, I don't notice any major differences. I really like having the ridiculous options the axefx has, I just wish they would somehow streamline it to make it a little more accessible, and not through endless menus, but it's a small gripe.
To be honest, we‘re essentially already at the point, where it doesn’t matter, if you use a Helix, an Axe FX II/III or a Kemper, they all sound really good and more like variations on a theme (that comes with tolerances in the real world too). I couldn’t get a Helix to sound good, so I bought a Kemper…
@@riffsnoleads It's a problem because you are very rarely going to be in a situation where you can really crank that thing. Especially enough to push the power amp tubes. How big are the venues gonna be realistically? It's also clearly a problem in band practice, let alone home studio recording. Nobody needs a super loud amp nowadays. And yes, there is some FOH "propaganda" to it as well. The biggest problem are indeed the stupid guitar players. Whenever you see a really really good and clear sounding band live (which is rare), it's because they bring the volume down a notch. Opeth are a great example.
@@honigdachs. most of the venues I have played require a beast of an amp since they only carry a vocal PA. also, play at a wild ass house party and tell me a quiet amp will suffice. weird that doom bands use huge walls of sound at deafening volumes and are perfectly clear. you can easily be clear with loud volumes as long as you EQ accordingly. I rarely play my big boys under 5 on the volume and everything it nice and tidy.
Don't be hatin' on Boomers. I ain't never owned no Peevey Valve Queen aay. Modeler peeps spend all their time defending. No need to. Just use what you like. I've tried everything. I like real amps.
tbf the entire reasons why Modelers nearly always just emulate specific tube amps/are held to that standard is because of the people who loudly proclaim the absolute supremacy of tube amps. Obviously tube amps came first so they're going to be the starting point, but I think with enough time and thought new "virtual circuits" could be designed, taking influence not just from tubes but SS amps, drive pedals and new DSP concepts. You've stuff like Boss Katana though that's less specific. Solid State tech has come a long way too(debatedly it's been pretty good since the late 70s if you knew where to look - some people figured out how to use MOSFETs/JFETs properly, others didn't and still haven't)
That Argument with „amps are the Basis for tone -reference“ is Not valid, due to the fact that is based on the presumtion, that if in the beginning there would have been both anlog and digital systems available, people would have chosen the amp Sound over the modeller. It’s like comparing your wife to your First girlfriend, simply because you Met her FIRST. Or hanging on to fossile Energie, because thats what you know.. That is Not how Music works. Hell Thats not even how life works. You completely ignore all the other factors like Genre, place of playing ( Stadium or Club)… A very unsuffisticated line of argumentation.
And to Quote Andrew Schepps: „The only thing that matters und what Comes out of the speaker“. Noone in the audience cares where the tone comes from, only if it moves them
It happened to recording. You buy half decent laptop and all else is software. Then it is goodbye to buying ever redundant hardware. The spec on laptops already exceeds what is needed for competitive sound. Hollywood movies are already using $1500.00 USD military grade Laptops with zero reason to take it future. Big bucks for cameras and their accessories for sure. But we don't need the camera's. I can think of perhaps 3 amp models I would want and at the most buy 3 more I do't need. The thin is once I have more than I need than any other software downloads would have to be cheap. Add to that pirated software will be everywhere. In the meantime I will just play my Plexi and watch it's value exceed its cost by silly levels every year.
You spent 8:15 talking about a lot of stuff which in the end did not demonstrate much that wasn't common knowledge. Had you spent just 1 minute doing a real side by side demo with a given tube amp and a modeler that was designed to emulate it, that would have been far more useful. As for 'Garbage,' well...
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where's the mx5 review Danley
@@darkflash32 It's coming. I have a really good reason for waiting on it, which I'll go over in the video!
One very valid thing real amps are better at is latency, its also the reason why trivium went back to the 5150 heads instead of Kemper's, sure a Kemper is under like 10ms but when you have added latency from long runs and stuff that 10ms can be the difference between feeling in time or not, its never gonna be an issue for bands on small stages but as things become more complex sometimes its best to keep the important stuff as simple as you can.
Good point @@EpIcHoBoGuY
Do you still hold this view 2 years on?
Nothing beats a REAL amp and cab to me I'm stubborn
you're not stubborn, you're right.
Love this vid... You NAILED IT!! Ive been playing metal 41 yrs.. played live, signed a record deal where i appeared on disc w members of Motley crue, done guest solo appearences on artists Cds, etc. done a lot. I have 2 100w marshall head and cabs, WHY would I need a modeler(which cant push air like a tube amp can) when i can have the REAL THING? Call me old fashioned or stubborn to change, but ill NEVER give up my Tube amp heads
Put all of my modelers away and went back to my valve amps.
I spent too much time messing around with all the different settings instead of playing.
Yeah, that's a legitimate problem if you get distracted easily.
Hahaha, the edit with Dazed was jokes. Great vid man!
the Dazed and Confused clip had me laughing 😂
For me it's always been Amp + Drive = \m/
Amps are cool, and so are modelers, but I've got to admit, plugins are my go to. I have the amps that I want and I don't have to feel like I'm wasting functionality of a modeler by ignoring the amp models I am not interested in, and I don't have a unit taking up space, since I'm using my laptop which is used for other things. Sure, plugins share a few of the same caveats as modelers, but I don't have to spend hundreds of dollars on a tube amp and a cabinet, or have the issues of having to pay a fine for violating local noise ordinances.
Have you played an AxeFx 3? I can’t tolerate those plugins now that I’ve played axe 3
And that's why I sold the helix, bought the Pod Go and now wish I hadn't. I like modelers. Oh I have a 66 bassman, but it hasn't been fired up in 20 years. Best bang for the buck is one of the modelers like a Valeton GP200 which I picked up for a super deal. Once I sell the Pod Go, I'll have all I need (until the next great thing comes out.).
Feel is not the basic action of touching an amp. There’s shit under your fingers translating through the amp that the modelers doesn’t produce, and I say that as someone that’s been playing an Axe 3 for a year.
2024 and I just traded my last modeler for an old Crate tube amp. I can't take it any more. All I ever do with modelers is fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, fiddle trying to get it to play like a real amp. Then I give up, plug into a tube amp, and there it is. Exactly what I've been trying to dial in for HOURS, and no fiddling required. IDC any more, I will play tube amps until the parts supply dries out. Hopefully not in my lifetime. The little clips you show that show all those graphic settings, amp sag, tube bias, la la la la la....that is THE reason I won't mess with modelers any more. Not to mention real guitar speaker cab (good) vs. FRFR with cab and mike emulation (horrible, no thrust, none of that wonderful, delicious speaker/string interaction/feedback). And they just keep adding more and more options and menus as time goes by.
TH -U is my main rig, despite owning several tube amps and pedals. Tube amps are just cumbersome for recording and I don't find their sound quality to be a lot better either
Damn, the tube mafia got you. Understood.
They're all great. I prefer amps more for the personal playing feel but when it comes to recording and practicality, especially recording, modellers and plugins are far more feasible going forward. Also, speaking of practicality when it comes to setting up a tone via a signal chain in modellers; there are definitely cases of people spending plenty of time and labour messing about with their fairly elaborate pedal boards that go into those amps. Personally, one can have a decent amp that is central to one's tone/sound, but modelling tech can always be used in conjunction with an amp to enhance the options and even emulate another amp while powering it with the power amp section of one's own tube amp.
That’s true, I didn’t even consider the pedal board squad. They might be the nerdiest of all tone chasers! 🤣
@@TaylorDanley I guess we're going to be getting another one of those "five reasons" videos that's bound to agitate the pedal board mafia.
Definitely hit me with that "fEeLs BrO" section; I have always loved learning how my amps work. Modellers I can almost always dial in with a minute or two because of all the reasons you stated here with their EQ conrols.
As far as the "tone" section, the biggest issue I have ran into is that modellers have a hard time recreating the "power amp falling apart under stress" thing that you get from really cranking a tube amp to it's maximum levels. I think this could also tie into the "feel" thing as well.
As far as what is next, honestly, I think there will be a plateau effect, unless (as you said) new amp companies grab the torch and modelers copy and then repeat all of that again. I think the problem that lies there unfortunately goes back to pushing amps beyond their designed limits and the fact that MOST modern amp builders rely more on preamp distortion rather than "my amp is going to break" distortion. So that sets the stage for the plateau effect to remain a constant because modelers can recreate preamp tones so well now.
I think amp companies are going to have to really bring something new to the table rather than just adding noise gates or boosts to the preamp in order to maintain any future relevance. Legacy only can go so far, it may take 100 years, but that really ain't a lot of time in the world. I think something legitimately new and out of this world designed into amps is the only avenue that should be considered, otherwise all the remains is the status quo.
Then again, we would have to convince people that change is good as well.
Convincing people change is good is probably about the hardest thing there is to do. No one likes change, unfortunately it’s the only thing that ever remains the same.
One more thing to add...and this is coming from someone that has tried ever so hard to fall in love with modellers. They just are missing something...and that is, the feel of a real amp. Its like you're playing something that's artificially real. Like a Beyond Burger or something. Lastly, I have not once, heard anyone use them live and sound good. Happy to be proven wrong - (I'm not talking about big bands with insane sound techs. I'm talking local bands using kempers/helix etc. Either they sound totally shit and sterile OR you can barely hear in a mix. I rocked up to one night with my amp, albeit a Katana and at the very least I was audible. Picking up a 5150 tomorrow. Playing a real amp after a while of digital crap is like a holy experience.
i hated feeling at risk of my modeller crashing before a gig. yes, i know valves fail, but i kept my fingers crossed every time i powered up my headrush. sold it before it happened. back to my valve amp and get so much more inspired from it's tone.
I know the feeling. I have a pretty complex rig, and it’s like if one piece fails I’m on stage like 🥴🥴🥴
Headrushs stuff has reliability concerns, if that’s your number one I know Boss stuff is just always quality
I get you, but if I hate something about tube amps, is that they are no where as diverse than modelers. If you play live enough, you understand that diversity highly improves the show. Amps are limited so I would leave it for home recreational activity or as a studio tool
@@ClaimedEagle tried digital processors live for a year. I'm more old school and preferred amp and a couple of pedals. manipulate tones with guitar controls/pick attack and set and forget amp, two channels though. it works best for me. less tweeking, more playing.
Great video, Taylor. You made some excellent points. I like both tube amps and modellers, but modellers are more forgiving (so I guess that means tube amps have more feel). My biggest problem with using tube amps is that I haven't come across a good enough reactive load box at a decent price yet that is equal to the line out on most amps. I just returned a Captive X. I wonder what the Suhr reactive load is like.
your "convenience" point. it's actually more convenient to use an acoustic guitar, just don't bother to use an electric and plug in to a tube amp. no knobs or anyting to touch. modelers are more complicated because you can do more with them. yes, there is an initial learning curve but once you get the tone you need then you're set. and modelers now have easier user interfaces
Yeh seems a lot of marketing behind digital stuff, when you ask a pro guitarist what they prefer they nearly always say a tube amp, the digital thing is mainly for convenience it seems, some people seem to love it tho.
Hated digital for decades. Tried Axe1 ultra when they came out. Comparably to everything previous it was pretty good. Did not best my 30 year old tube rig though. Sold it. Bought fm3 few months back loaded Cygnus. The fight is over. Other than the slight difference in feel in a lot of ways it's better honestly.
Yeah, the Cygnus tech is REALLY good.
I think you are right. i have a Boss Katana and I set what i liked on the clean channel and use pedals. It really just makes me want a tube amp because I think they sound better and just for simplicity sake.
+69 Bonus points for the McConaughey cut scene *chef's kiss*
🤌🤌🤌🤌
I honestly think that specifically Profiling units CAN sound exactly like amps but feel is something that is yet to be replicated cause of just physics via Tube ve Solid State Circuitry
Fucking died at 2:42 🤣
i love you Taylor, i got into modelers because of you, i do believe you are right in both videos :D
🙌🙌🙌
Dont like 1 thing about modelers, that i must pick harder on modeler than on real amp
Obviously the real tube amp is the best thing but the modellers are so ridiculously close now that only nerds will tell the difference. The main factors is also price, space requirement. Those tube amps and pedals soon add up whereas u can get all the pedals and amps worth having in one board at a fraction of the costs opening up way kore tonal possiblities than the real thing
Love your car comparison 😂😂
1) Agree.
2) Mostly Disagree. You only have to do it once. Which is an equivalent step of choosing the one amp you want to buy in the shop. Having a modeller is like having the whole shop in a box. If you set up your amp modeller to do as much as a single amp can do, no further tweaking is required. Just plug and play. You will tweak only if you want to. No one is forcing you to.
3) Agree
4) Disagree that loudness is an advantage. Still, it's not the modellers fault, it's the amps fault that a modeller is not loud...
5) Dun care...
i will tell you why modellers are better.... the audience experience... and any musicians have to care about this
I like both...I own a Kemper,Line 6 stuff and about 13 tube amps. It's almost like the Midi/sample player keyboard stuff from the 80s....suddenly you could play piano or strings on a digital keyboard....if it sounds good , it sounds good....BUT I would be disappointed if Keith Richards or Eric Clapton would start to use Kempers,Line 6 or Fractals
One thing that has solved the issue of you modeler becoming outdated is the fact that these things have been getting regular firmware updates and continued support. I think that has a lot to do with the design of these things have gotten so good, that they no longer need to release new hardware but once every 10 years or more, and only need to shoot a new update with new amps, effects, etc. At this point, modelers are basically future proof. Just keep the updates coming, we don't need new hardware.
Bro I can't heat my gig space in the winter with the axefx, my amps tho...
🤣
But both cars get you to the same destination lol my argument is all tube amps become digital through signals such as steaming radio or through a pa. Tubes blow more likely that a fractal taking a dump lol . I love tube amps but becoming obsolete really.
Old modelers don't become "irrelevant". I have an HD500x that I still use today. Yes, the "newer" modelers are more used than old ones, the same way you use your "more" favourite tube amp than your other ones. I'm only wrong if you use all your tube amps equally.
One thing that’s disappointing with modelers is I feel the boosts do not interact with the modeler amp heads as they do in real life. That and no one can seem to get a dual rec right.
Yeah dual recs aways sound flubby with moddlers .
A L L modellers suck. Nothing beats a real amp, cab and mic.
Awe man that framus cobra in the back! 👌🏻🤘🏻
Millennials will hopefully learn one day.
I like the point that modelers are just a copy, no one would buy any modeling amp if it won't tell them it sounds like any of the big names, it's making money with these names, nothing more. Even if they sound good. Seems like a modern innovation and at some point it is, but also at some point it's not, because everyone uses them to sound like Marshall, Orange, Mesa... no relevant new tones are created by modelers. Another important thing: the don't look as good as a real amplifier :)
1000% You nailed it. The Modeller snobs always like to make the point that it's innovative and if it were around in the 60s or 70s people would use that - but it's not breaking any new ground it's just a photo collection of tones from the past in a handy box.
Marshall valve amps are great they forgot the majority of consumers wanted.. Modeling amps becomes a hammer, it has marketing.. and it works.. like a hammer
I bought the pod hd for full price too, never bought line 6 again because of this!
the "feel" point. does it really matter that the curve on tone knobs differ from tube amps and modelers? there are loads of videos of very experienced guitar players a/b testing real amps and modelers blindfolded and not knowing which is which. tone is not "good" because the tone changes from this to this when you turn the knob from 1 to 2 o clock. good tone is good tone, because it sounds a certain way
Speaking as a total tone snob... One variable no one seems to discuss when it comes to tone is in the live setting. I've recently acquired a Quad Cortex and have used it several times in a live setting. Even though I captured my own amplifier in multiple configurations, head only-paired with a digital cab or IR, head cab + mic, head into CaptorX with different paid IRs, it still lacks something when standing out front compared to a mic 'ed amp on the stage. I think firstly there is the bleed factor. At least in relatively smaller venues. a miced amp projects sound off the stage. I think that additional sound compliments the sound the PA is reproducing. Next, the vocal mics on stage all contribute to that sound too even if only a small amount. Any mic that's not gated, really. I can never get a faithful reproduction out of any of these digital alternatives. Usually there is an odd and annoying frequency that cannot be corrected with EQ and it just sounds like something is missing. Sure, the audience doesn't care. But I do. I'm now done with the QC. That makes the 7th attempt to leave my Tube amp at home. I don't care how good these things get. Taylor made the most salient point: A good tube amp will never be obsolete. And what am I going back to? A 1984 2203 JCM 800.
Another really big reason for me not really getting into the high-end amp modeler is the amp models are all ONE CHANNEL.
Hear me out...the Line 6 Helix, the Axe FX, Neural Quad Cortex, even the Headrush have their Snapshots/Scenes/etc., that can change the parameters and/or disable the blocks built in the preset, which is fine and very handy. One big thing for me with this was to still have delays and reverbs trail off when changing sounds and turning those off when I switch from a solo sound to a rhythm sound. That's fine if I have an amp block in that preset that is mainly a high gain model and can just switch the parameters such as gain and mids to get a "boosted" solo snapshot/scene, but if I have to switch to a clean sound (which I do very often), either I have to have ANOTHER amp block with a clean amp model, which I don't want to do if my preset is already filled up and taking processing power, or the modeler is limited and I have to switch to another preset and thereby getting rid of the reverb and delay trail offs and getting that split second of audible silence in between the switch. If these companies can get around to having amp models with at least a clean channel and distortion channel, I'd get one of these in a heartbeat.
Until then, I have the Line 6 HX Effects running into my B-52 AT-100 with the snapshots changing the channel on the amp head along with other sounds changing and such as described above.
It’s really easy to tell that modellers are not as good as their tube amp counterparts when you listen without an IR to both size by side.
I don't agree...All that matters is if you dig the tone..who cares where it comes from.
Me loading my tube amp in to my Prius: "Wait...what?"
Lots of bonuses when using a modler,specially for effects, and I look at Metallica using and touring with Fractal.lighter.portable. no maintenance, but none of that matters if you dont get the tone and feel you want. Im old school.I love tube amps. modelers have their place I guess, if it sounds good it is good. I play through two amps.one is a solid state,one is a tube amp. all my effects are analog, I get bragged on my tone all the time. if I can acheive that easier I will. but we aint there ...yet
In general people need to worry about gear less and playing more. If a player hasn't put in at least 10000 hours at this point, they shouldn't even be talking about gear yet. Like most good players, when you play, it doesn't matter much what you're playing on, it still sounds like Taylor. That's the thing people need to start to understand.
BrO aRe YoU sErIoUsLy sAyInG mY JcM 8oO SoUnDs LiKe mY 5150??? 🥴🥴🥴 SMH bro
.
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🤣🤣🤣 no, you’re 💯 % right..
@@TaylorDanley Sure there's minute differences with amps, sometimes they vary a decent amount but the player still matters a lot more. Once you get past the threshold of quality enough gear, it's basically all the same. Play better, gear less :P
5150 amps have very good sound with all tone and gain knobs at 12oclock!
Now you're making sense!
Blasphemy!
Its really simple - for the same money i can have 1 tube amp or i can have a high end modeller and have 'all' the amps... Plus i can also take my exact studio tone live if need be... As for playing live, there are plenty of good/loud powered full range cabs... And no, they dont sound 'better' anymore, in fact most people cant even tell the difference... But yeah it all just comes back to the money, 1 tube amp or 1 high end modeller with 'all' the amps...?
Hey I've been hurt by the Valveking remark! 😄 🤣 no but seriously, please demo a 100w VK they can be had for dirt cheap and....and.....I even prefer it over my 6505+.!!
🤣 I might one day. I know they definitely have a cult following.
How loud should your amp be? There's this thing called mics, they point it to speakers of real amps that gets fed to a PA system or recording gear. Even a 5 watt amp is sufficient. Unless you play mindless distorted metal that you call music you won't need ear damaging amps
One thing I like about the Axe FX iii is that it has a JCM 800 in it.
While im a valve amp and a digital user, you sort of missed the pros of the digital stuff, like they are much smaller, doesnt weigh a ton, you can transport them for live much easier, theres no valves (tubes) to wear out break or replace, you can record/play with them at low volume at home etc..I have a jcm800 Kerry King Marshall/Evh 5153, Mesa 4 x 12 and all the neural, ML sound labs stuff etc..they all have their place, but I agree Valve amps are deffo way cooler
I made a whole other video about that! Link is in the comments and the description
@@TaylorDanley ah! Not seen that one yet 👍
Hey look it's Taylor "not so big eyes anymore 👀" Danley!
They must be shrinking with age
Yet nearly a decade later, there are still pros out there touring with the AxeFX Ultra, and the AX8.
Then there's the AxeFX 2 which is still the foundation of countless live rigs. Outdated, underpowered DSP is more of an issue for Line 6 customers. Fractal has it covered.
The AxeFX 3 or FM9 are just about perfect, so until the units burn out, they will be providing tones already indistinguishable from anything analog for many years just like their predecessors.
Dont matter what you use, as long as you get the sound for you, take the good stuff and throw away what yer dont need, simple.
At this point most of the gigs I do are cover band types. Here is one thing I've noticed. If I am playing a hall with a great FOH setup and pro at the board, that modeler will sound amazing, however, at bars/clubs I like an amp. Why? Because I can't "trust" the sound guy often. There is nothing worse than having a "perfect" mix in a rock setting but it sounds too clinical or lacks power because the guitar is hitting the crowd in the face. When that happens and I have a bum sound guy, I can crank up my tube amp a bit more. It will impact the mix a bit but overall the power you need will be there. Also, you will play better and you know we guitarists love to be blasted by our cabs.
Someone should post 5 reasons Modelers suck and 5 reasons Tube Amps Suck.
If only someone would do that... Taking a stance from each side... giving points for each side of the argument... Who could possibly be that brave?
To me the point of a modeller wasn't to replace tube amps, but to compliment them. Many modellers let you ton print your sound so you can bring it on tour much easier.
Im new hear.but i really love the info.what a great deal of take away.👊🔥💯
Hybrids that’s next. Revv is doing it peavey is doing. Mesa just started it orange is also. Next you’ll see everyone jumping on the bandwagon with di outs hopefully using external use of your own cab irs. A 10lb amp with a 10-15lb one 12 cab will definitely start seeing more light of day.
Hybrids in terms of features included in tube amps, like speaker defeats, Cab sim, etc? I’d agree, but I meant more in terms of tonal variety.
Haha, a series of videos where you make an argument followed by a video to argue with the first video lol
If I were A/B’ing back and forth, I think maybe I could tell the digital from the analog, maybe… In a live setting, I’m sure I would never be able to tell. If I’m being honest, I don’t know if I’m bias or not, but my amps inspire me more than my digital. I just like playing live with digital because of the convenience.
That’s a big piece of the puzzle. Some gear just has mojo. There’s not much you can do to simulate that 🤷♂️
@@TaylorDanley Mojo is a REAL thing!!
Might be a stupid question but couldn’t you put a modular in front of a tube amp and blend the two and have the best of both worlds? I’m fairly new to modulars so be nice 🤙🏻
Not a stupid question. You can certainly use a tube power amp and have a hybrid setup. I did this for a long time, but then ended up buying a Sold State power amp. The biggest difference wasn’t tone, it was the weight. The tube amp weight ~ 50 lbs, the solid state weighed ~ 7. My tube power amp has lived in a rack in my studio ever since.
@@TaylorDanley thank you very much friend
Lol, I knew after the modeler video this one had to be next.
I still have and use my HD Pro lol
I have some modelers , but even if they are effective, i get a bad feeling with the modeler, But my Peavey, or Zombie II sounds great now and tomorrow, ;D Thank´s Taylor
🙏
Well damn Taylor I didnt know we were on a friends...Lol but I did click like in the first 10 seconds... XD
It feels like there are amp modeler snobs everywhere now. It has completely shifted
Truth. I read someone saying:
10 years ago - You use a modeller?? Why don't you pony up like a REAL guitarist and spend 3 grand on a tube amp.
Now - You use a tube amp?? Why don't you pony up like a REAL guitarist and spend 3 grand on Axe F/X.
What I hate about modelers is that you always have to negotiate with them in order to get an OK sound. Tweaking is mostly a struggle.
Having too many options is also bad for your creativity.
A good amp will sound great immediately as you plug into it. I think they also force you to become a better guitar player and make the most of what you have.
@@chopholtz4950 Plug-ins are too flattering and make you believe you're a better player than you really are.
I use both plug-ins and tube amps and I can tell you that my tube amps force me to be a much more accurate player since every little noise or mistake will be heard in the amp.
@@gambooyt Do tell. What are these magical plugins that make you believe you're a better player than you are? Sounds like an argument I had with some over 5150 and Dual Rectifier. This guy claimed he liked 5150 better because it didn't hide your mistakes like the a Mesa does. Absolutely absurd notion that was not backed up by any proof.
Guitarist make up so much nonsense about gear there needs to be a term for it.
@@BillPinkNye Plugins allow me to play faster and are above all more forgiving than tube amps. Amps always require me to be much more accurate because their sound is much less compressed, if that makes sense. I get much better at the guitar when I practice on an amp, rather than with plug-ins.
Every guitarist will tell you that some pieces of gear are more forgiving than others-that's actually a trite observation.
@@gambooyt Again I ask. What are these magical plugins? I've used plenty and none of them suddenly make me a faster player. You do what so many other guitarists do. Making some bold claims with no evidence what so ever.
@@BillPinkNye Amplitube
Well, there's more reason to sell my amps, dude: 1) Too heavy (150 Ib to 250 Ib) to load & unloaded to a gigging and/or rehearsals, 2) No more place in my house, 3) Hate needing to my preamps and power amps, 4) Hate hunting to find a good service to fix my amp (and it can get pricy), and 5) I have multiple type songs and ONE amp won't work to a gig.
25 years ago, I wished someone would make a good pedal so I can just put it in bag. AND Now......we finally got: Fractal, Helix, GT1000, Headrush, Cortex, Kemper, etc. Yee Hah! No my friend, you can keep you 250 Ib amp. I'll keep my modeler pedals. 😅
250 pounds? Are they really that heavy
IDK the Thomas Blug amp 1 Mercury edition or the iridium edition is pretty fucking amazing I personally can't believe it.. even the sag is almost so close it's scary!
Line6 kills everyone else in terms of "get a usable tone FAST!". Fractal units probably have incredible potential, but man they take ages to get good tones out of, even when you know exactly how they work.
Also, modeled negative feedback stuff is common in top shelf modelling tech.
Kemper has a heck of a lifespan.
playing both sides of the fence huh? lol
👀
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Actually it was just kind of fun to write these videos, and sort of challenging in a way. I don’t think there should be a fence, people can like whatever they want to like, and if it makes you happy that’s all that matters!
@@TaylorDanley truer words have never been spoken..
Quality of tone and player interaction goes to the Tube Amp. It is substantial and so is lugging it from gig to gig. Modelers are good for getting an idea of what amp and pedals works best for you and can save a new player years of amp and pedal trading. Like anything, a new sound can inspire. Being able to sample your amp collection and take a light weight close imitation is becoming the new norm and actually ideal for multi genre acts or or touring your latest Album.
And also, Guitars tend to increase in value moreso than Amps. But it is true for studio gear the real deal is money recoverable over plugin versions. But it is true the modlers are at risk of being superseded.
Preface, have yet to watch the other video on Modellers. But one, certainly I, can make an argument for Modellers being better with the same 5 pts you just used. Or in some cases, what you put as positive for tube amps, actually isn't. For instance, 1 Longevity isn
t really. For one, even though a new version of a modeller comes out, it doesn't make the old one, any less usable. THis is a fallacy. It just means it will be the same moving forward, after it no longer gets updates. Tube Amps, don't get updates. No difference. IN FACT, as tube amps change, they have crucial components that age and effect tone. It isn't always good. A tube amp WILL have to be recapped if you have it any number of years. Those same physical pots that give that tactile feel (Which MANY moddelers now have as well) will go bad. That is just one example.
God I love my Randall Satan, it will continue to chug for the next 50 years until I'm deaf 😎
🤣 but please do wear ear protection
@@TaylorDanley I do no worries bro 😂
Amps = Better. nothing wrong with modelers.
Great Shirt 😁
Irrelevant?
The single biggest factor in my purchase of a Kemper, is that it will be future proof, no matter what happens with amplifier tech. Other modelers will(and have) come out, faster, smaller,cheaper, but as long as amplifiers create analog sound, the Kemper, and the like, can profile it.
Fractal has already stopped any specific model firmware, prior to the XL, and Line 6 is well known to not invest anything into their legacy products. I like new, shiny objects, and blinking lights like the next guy, but i cannot imagine a future scenario where a Kemper will not be able to do what it does.
1) Lifespan. If the tones were great on older device, you can get those much cheaper. This is good news for us poor asses
2) Convenience. Hardware processors are miles more convenient than old tube technology. Then you're done dialing tones you can instantly get into playing the guitar and creating music with album worthy tones without additional spends on cabs, mics, pedals, acoustic treatment, loudboxes, etc.
3) FeEL. If tone is saturated enough feel is great.
4) Loudness. Take care of your hearing, before you get a tinnitus.
5) With modellers you can create impossible tones without destroying your gear and relationships 😁
POD HD for $229 is still a great tool man ;)
I actually agree with u!!
Does anyone feel like modelers into real cabinets bring out more of a real amp feel?
Great vid man...
🥳 thanks!
#3 and #4 are problems, not advantages. 😃 Regarding #1: time will tell. Who says you have to own the latest version of a modeler? Maybe the one you have already does everything you need. I also expect fewer "quantum leaps" in modeling technology in the future. There's gonna be some more major steps and after that, the gap will be largely closed so I think that in the not-so-distant future, you won't be going "I can't believe we used to think this sounded REAL!" every few years any more.
#5 Well you gotta go off of something, right? Right now we're crossing from one type of technology to the next, so it's natural that the new is trying to offer everything the old did. But partially this is also because guitar players are this ridiculous, conservative bunch. You just HAVE to have the words vintage, warm, classic tones etc. in there in order to generate any interest in a new technology at all. It's kinda like everything's gluten free nowadays, only in reverse (ass backwards). I think this will also start to change further down the road. As time goes by, more and more younger generation players are simply interested in practical features and an exciting sound and less enamored with mythology, and I'm sure at some point we'll be seeing "modeling" amps that don't try to replicate some piece of tube gear, but do their own thing.
I agree with #2. It's fucking boring. I'd like to see a modeling amp that isn't trying to be this endless cornucopia of tonal options. As if anyone needed 128 amps, 80 cab sims and 300 effects at their disposal. Usually you default to that certain bunch of personal presets that fit your needs and style anyway. I'd be way more interested in modeling amps if there were options with only a few basic variations of the usual clean, crunch, heavy and lead channels, a few distinctive IRs and some bread-and-butter FX - and cost me a few 100 bucks instead of 2 grand and more.
Yeah, we'll just have to see what happens in the future. I think that modelers are the obviously much more convenient option, and when I'm playing using something like the axefx, helix or quad cortex, I don't notice any major differences. I really like having the ridiculous options the axefx has, I just wish they would somehow streamline it to make it a little more accessible, and not through endless menus, but it's a small gripe.
To be honest, we‘re essentially already at the point, where it doesn’t matter, if you use a Helix, an Axe FX II/III or a Kemper, they all sound really good and more like variations on a theme (that comes with tolerances in the real world too). I couldn’t get a Helix to sound good, so I bought a Kemper…
how is an amp being loud a problem? like, how is it rocking and rolling at 2db? this sounds like some FOH propaganda.
@@riffsnoleads It's a problem because you are very rarely going to be in a situation where you can really crank that thing. Especially enough to push the power amp tubes. How big are the venues gonna be realistically? It's also clearly a problem in band practice, let alone home studio recording.
Nobody needs a super loud amp nowadays. And yes, there is some FOH "propaganda" to it as well. The biggest problem are indeed the stupid guitar players. Whenever you see a really really good and clear sounding band live (which is rare), it's because they bring the volume down a notch. Opeth are a great example.
@@honigdachs. most of the venues I have played require a beast of an amp since they only carry a vocal PA. also, play at a wild ass house party and tell me a quiet amp will suffice.
weird that doom bands use huge walls of sound at deafening volumes and are perfectly clear.
you can easily be clear with loud volumes as long as you EQ accordingly. I rarely play my big boys under 5 on the volume and everything it nice and tidy.
Don't be hatin' on Boomers. I ain't never owned no Peevey Valve Queen aay. Modeler peeps spend all their time defending. No need to. Just use what you like. I've tried everything. I like real amps.
tbf the entire reasons why Modelers nearly always just emulate specific tube amps/are held to that standard is because of the people who loudly proclaim the absolute supremacy of tube amps. Obviously tube amps came first so they're going to be the starting point, but I think with enough time and thought new "virtual circuits" could be designed, taking influence not just from tubes but SS amps, drive pedals and new DSP concepts.
You've stuff like Boss Katana though that's less specific. Solid State tech has come a long way too(debatedly it's been pretty good since the late 70s if you knew where to look - some people figured out how to use MOSFETs/JFETs properly, others didn't and still haven't)
modeling amp for steel is junk
Nice talk show
That Argument with „amps are the Basis for tone -reference“ is Not valid, due to the fact that is based on the presumtion, that if in the beginning there would have been both anlog and digital systems available, people would have chosen the amp Sound over the modeller.
It’s like comparing your wife to your First girlfriend, simply because you Met her FIRST. Or hanging on to fossile Energie, because thats what you know..
That is Not how Music works. Hell Thats not even how life works.
You completely ignore all the other factors like Genre, place of playing ( Stadium or Club)…
A very unsuffisticated line of argumentation.
And to Quote Andrew Schepps: „The only thing that matters und what Comes out of the speaker“.
Noone in the audience cares where the tone comes from, only if it moves them
Pleeeeeeease make a video about Framus Cobra!
It will happen soon
It happened to recording. You buy half decent laptop and all else is software. Then it is goodbye to buying ever redundant hardware. The spec on laptops already exceeds what is needed for competitive sound. Hollywood movies are already using $1500.00 USD military grade Laptops with zero reason to take it future. Big bucks for cameras and their accessories for sure. But we don't need the camera's. I can think of perhaps 3 amp models I would want and at the most buy 3 more I do't need. The thin is once I have more than I need than any other software downloads would have to be cheap. Add to that pirated software will be everywhere. In the meantime I will just play my Plexi and watch it's value exceed its cost by silly levels every year.
You're shilling so hard I'll bet big toob is paying you a mint! Lol
You spent 8:15 talking about a lot of stuff which in the end did not demonstrate much that wasn't common knowledge. Had you spent just 1 minute doing a real side by side demo with a given tube amp and a modeler that was designed to emulate it, that would have been far more useful. As for 'Garbage,' well...
You... cleaver guy lol
Oh, jvm410, jcm800, engl fireball to me 4 ever 😬👍in add: excelent channel!
Thanks!! 🙏
@@TaylorDanley my pleasure!
Dont care for the G- damn choice of words at all, otherwise 👍🏼