The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: A Conversation with Carl Trueman
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Why is the statement, "I am a man trapped in a woman's body" considered coherent and meaningful today? What are the historical and philosophical roots that led us to this cultural moment? In this interview, I talk with Carl Trueman about these questions and more.
READ: The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: amzn.to/3aIlcWj
READ [blog]: Understanding the Sexual Revolution: bit.ly/3t4ATNT
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One of the best interviews with great content. Thanks Sean and Carl!
A call out to Doctor Sean. Sean you are really becoming a trusted teacher to me down here in Australia and I want to thank you for your open heart and mind and passion and love for Jesus. God bless you Sean.
These conversations you have are incredibly informative.
The Rise and Triumph is essential reading for Christians who want to grapple with the underlying theories that have driven Western liberal cultures toward the psychologized self. I have just finished it and, like Sean, plan to go through it again. Carl Trueman has also brought out a more accessible version of the book called Strange New World, and a study guide, which I plan to have used in my own church to explore this crucial area of thinking about the culture (or anticulture) in which we find ourselves.
Tks Sean, excellent interview. Tku Dr Carl, your summary was most uplifting at the end. Good advice for coming great difficulties and challenges ✝️🙏
Great video, thanks Sean and Carl!
Carl was amazing! I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
Another great guest Dr McDowell. What a great show. So many terrific guests. Dr McDowell is a great interviewer and even better preacher. This show always challenges me and stretches my imagination and mind. I learn so much here.
What a good topic! I’m so lookin forward to hearing your take on ”the self”....
Great podcast, Sean.
Trueman is so good! Thanks, Sean, for your podcasts. Unfortunately, I have hardly read anything in the past several weeks as I have been devouring these podcasts.
Sean, your sound is WAY TOO LOW, though your guest's sound is okay. Great interview otherwise!
Cr
Agree. I found both the volumes to be too low (especially when you listen to this via earplugs being outside)
Thank you both!
I recently received this book but have not started it…yet. Definitely anxious to do so, especially after listening to this
Definitely interested in the book as well!! Where did you order it? I see huge price differences..
It’s a wonderful book, but be prepared to read and re-read parts. Some of the ideas are very weighty.
@@Potamotrygorgeous it was given to me, so I am unsure of the best place to purchase
You won't regret it. But it's thick with info. You might want to start a book group.
Great video! the overall audio output is too low and Sean's volume is especially low.
Getting to the bakery issue. There was a devious element and lack of transparency of the clients. It was definitely entrapment which is more amoral than the feelings of the so called “hurt” couple.
very true about distaste defining cultural ideologies. Makes me think of the Netflix movie "Cuties"
Sean and Carl, I would love to hear a discussion involving both/each of you on this book's subject with a Catholic expert on Pope John Paul II's writings - "Theology of the Body."
Is the volume of Sean's videos low compared to other channels? Or am I crazy?
Society is already trying to normalize child consent on the subject of gender identity. Some people are facing legal troubles because one parent wants to allow their child to transition and the other is refusing. In Canada we are seeing laws to where if one parent refuses to allow their child to transition they can face fines or even face jail time. The slippery slope would be that if children are allowed to legally change their gender based upon consent and feeling then why can’t children legally consent to what we call pedophilic acts if the child is ok and wants to engage in these actions. I’m not saying that is the goal of all of this, but it has to be a logical question on the table for the future. The future is looking scary, but I’m glad you all are talking through the thought process behind the issues and not just writing off people as hopeless. Thank God that his love for us through Christ has the power and ability to meet any sinner where they are and lead them where He desires us to be.
Sounds like a cry for help
@@epic6434 a cry for help for who?
Every "deep dive" into depravity and brokenness like this resizes and recalibrates for me our evangelistic and apologetic task: we may have arguments and worldview "corrections" ready at hand, but we are more messed up than any human can fix; we are a mess that only God can fix.
Does Dr. Trueman have the best voice or what? I’m listening to him read this book on Hoopla. Great stuff but very heady.
Did y’all just get this episode removed from Apple podcasts? I started listening yesterday and it was gone today when I went back to finish.
Not that I know of! It’s supposed to be released soon as a bonus for the think Biblically podcast.
I would like to know if Mr Trueman has read the works of the writer Michel Houellebecq and the book Sexual Utopia In Power by F Roger Devlin. Both writers have some key insights about the Sexual Revolution.
Damasio's Descarte's Error is interesting on the interplay of reason and emotion.
This topic is challenging. When some aspect of non-binary or "non-traditional" human sexuality becomes personal because of a friend or a person you care about, it complicates this even more.
Professor Trueman is broadly correct, especially when you analyze what he is saying intellectually and academically. Yet, our emotions, real relationships, family, maturity, and stage in life complicate the topic.
In general, we are ignoring the general category of truth - absolute right and wrong with an external antecedent. I think this is done because of differences in what the external antecedent is. For the Christian that takes on a solidly historical-grammatical approach to reading and applying the Bible, that referent is God.
Truth isn't only external, it implicates and includes us - all of us.
In the OT it is not just doing justice but also loving mercy, and walking humbly includes dispositions.
The self as connection to other human beings is different to being bodily entities - which is usually excessively individualist.
I'm beginning to suspect that a major mativation for Sean making these videos is to show off his T-shirt collection.
The arguments in the background are interesting, too.
Go get em tigers!
Ah, the cynicism. It's tough to build a satisfying life on perpetual skepticism.
Jonathan Haidt has talked about how modern sexual liberals have a hard time explaining why consenting adult incest is wrong, and he’s said it’s ultimately just about a natural digest, just like Carl Truman said around the 24:00 mark.
I'm a Trueman fan, but why assume that all or most divorce is due to "sexual desire", rather than incompatibility?
Because incompatability isnt sinful enough.
By incompatibility do you mean two people with foundational beliefs in opposition? Beyond that every marriage is the joining of two incompatible people, both sinful and selfish. It is by enduring the hardships of life together that two become one.
Charles Taylor has an interesting take on the modern self, less preoccupied with sex.
Words weilded by the powerful can have very severe impact. I don't see how flourishing can't include the personal.
Internalised morality is central to Christianity. Equating anger with murder and lust with rape. Being against hypocrisy means valuing the internal too.
Oh wow, so this is Josh McDowell's son?
I'm betting Sean and Carl advocate the kind of marriage they are in too. They and Shelley all have the integrity to practise what they preach.
Interesting to hear a Christian saying the material is decisive and true.
So would Carl be happy for his kind of sexuality be legally sanctioned? Would he feel that this doesn't have to do with who he is?
Missing the point of this discussion which is not the ligality of angaging in these Behavioral patterns which is informed by the cultural ethics and morals of the period . This is what Dr Truman is co-ops us in his book to explore which is how did we move from where we were to where we are today.
The appeal to damage and consent is entirely consistent and strong.
"Transgender" = (xx body + xy soul) or (xy body + xx soul)
Counter: God does not make mistakes.
Return Counter: God made them that way for morally sufficient reasons.
Counter: God made them male and female.
Return counter: they are still male and female.
There are laws against serial killing… unless you’re Hitler in the third Reich mass murdering 6 million Jews and 6 million other types of ppl. When moral relativity is embraced then all laws become based on subjective standards. Also to make ‘’consent’’ the standard really becomes an issue of how do we determine what consent is and who can consent. Age of consent laws vary from state to state and country to country so it’s very relative. In ancient pre Christian Greco Roman society it was perfectly acceptable for a wealthy upper class Roman male to force himself on a young male slave of his sexually and to rape any of his slaves of any age so age of consent and consent itself was irrelevant when it came to slaves. To deny the reality of the body is very Gnostic and very unscientific. One can feel that the sky is really green and that 2 plus 2 really equals 5 but that doesn’t mean it is
His sexual identity isn't central - so he'll be happy to walk along the street holding hands with another man, kiss men on the lips in greeting etc . . . My guess is that he will feel this doesn't fit his identity.
Because children are damaged in all sorts of ways, that is ok? This is just confused. He argues that forcing kids to do some things is ok. This leads to problems - but from the basis that it is ok to force kids to do some things - which is what he approves.
What in the world are you talking about? I read some of your comments. You need to put your statements in context by prefacing them with context.
It's called parenting, Evan Hadkins. Children are forced by their parents, for their own good development and present and future health and flourishing, to do all manner of things they protest (i.e., do not *consent to*). Trueman is saying that, on that basis, "consent" as a THE standard, or line between what's appropriate and what's abusive, sexually, with children, is rather flimsy.
@@dlockness1 You need a way to distinguish abusive from beneficial parenting.
@@evanhadkins5532 parenting is his example of an area in which consent (or, a child's ability to consent) is not a factor (at least not a major factor). This is not the controversial point. His point was that pedophiles could exploit this parenting example to justify what they would like to do to children (i.e., that a child's consent should not matter for them, either).
@@dlockness1 Yes, so the question is what is the principle that limits parental action.
Why the focus on LGBQTI+ - bankers lifestyle is not condemned (you cannot serve money and god).
Bankers lifestyle is not condemned? What do you mean?
Usury is against God's law.
Because part of the topic has to do with identifying yourself based on your sexuality, which is contrary to God-given purpose, not a banker's lifestyle.
@@pr8951 You cannot love God and mammon. A banker's lifestyle is clearly contrary to scripture.
@@pr8951 Many a Christian identifies with their heterosexuality and has no problem with this.
Family, church, nation - only one of these is valued in scripture.
He who neglects his family is worse than an infidel. …. ??
@@madcow9421 Whoever obeys the willing of god is my mother, father, sister and brother. But yes, neglecting people is not loving.
This comment won't set well with people who don't like to read. I apologize for making it so long, one thought led to another and so on. Sorry about that.
There are three basic sources of religious energy which are the Holy Spirit, human soul power, and kingdom of darkness religious spirits. During times of no outpouring of the Holy Spirit (as in this day and time) it is extremely rare and difficult to find someone speaking by the anointing of the Holy Spirit, but it is commonplace for religious people to run on soul power, and/or to have anointings by religious spirits.
The religious spirits are the highest echelon of warrior foot soldier demons in the kingdom of darkness hierarchy who are meticulously groomed by kingdom of darkness overlords (aka fallen angels/principalities) to know how to mimic the Holy Spirit. Both religious spirits and religious soul power seek to mimic the Holy Spirit, and sometimes they can be very convincing with their 'Do-Gooder' persona, their sanctimonious posture of perfection, their mock authority, and their busy 'good works' agendas. The ploy has all to do with manipulation and control of the people who allow themselves to be used by religious spirits as human mouthpieces, and manipulation and control of their followers.
Sometimes soul power can be a good thing, as in construction trades, mechanical trades, sports, music, art, math, science, engineering, higher learning, anything that requires special talent and ability. But religious soul power is always exploited by kingdom of darkness religious spirits, the reason being that the Lord requires for Christians to wait for him to give them the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and if he doesn't give it to them for them to do nothing ministry-wise until he does. But if they go ahead anyway and launch out in presumption and start relying on soul power, they give automatic rights to the kingdom of darkness overlords to lade them with a religious spirit, which is what is going on with practically all of these RUclips religionists who are being driven by the religious spirits operating through them to be obsessed to post their religious videos. If these people could catch even a tiny glimpse of how disgusting it is to the Lord they'd never open their mouths in public again.
One thing these RUclips religionists fail to consider is that because they refused to wait on the Lord to give them the anointing of the Holy Spirit, but went ahead doing their own thing in his name anyway, that when the end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit comes they'll be left out of it because they have their reward now with their fifteen minutes of fame. That's exactly what happened to the televangelists and the system church priestclass who emulated them (so-called 'pastors') during the mid-90's outpouring of the Holy Spirit (what became known as "The Toronto Outpouring of the Holy Spirit" that lasted from 1991 - 1996). Then when they realized that they were left out of it they got jealous and bitter and vilified it, with many of them blaspheming the Holy Spirit by saying the outpouring was "Of the devil."
RUclips was actually concocted by the kingdom of darkness overlords as a forum for religious spirits to manifest through human mouthpieces for the purpose of making a parody of prophetic ministry (and of Christianity in general), and for the purpose of controlling millions of Christians, and it is working famously well for them. In their esteem, everything else on RUclips is just worldly fluff, but which is useful to them because it helps to legitimize RUclips, which is very important to them as the RUclips religionists are their primary voice to the world now, along with the system church priestclass (i.e. so-called 'pastors' and other assorted ministers) who emulate them.
The kingdom of darkness' highest priority agenda is to use RUclips to acclimate Christians to false prophetic ministry, because they know that during times of no outpouring of the Holy Spirit (as in this day and time) that the Lord keeps the true prophets hidden, and that when the end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit arrives (which I think is going to be fairly soon) he will bring them out of hiding and anoint them with Holy Spirit power (these will be Christians who nobody has ever heard of). That is exactly what happened during the mid-90's outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And the kingdom of darkness overlords remember it, so it is of utmost importance to them to acclimate Christians to false prophetic ministry now so that when the end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit comes they won't be able to relate to it, and they'll distrust the Lord's prophets, and will be afraid of them, and will call them false prophets, especially when they hear their messages which will be so totally opposite of the sweetsie-sweet and nicie-nice 'prophecies' they've been being weaned on for years and years, most of which major on the elementary principles of Christianity which the Holy Spirit said not to be doing (see Hebrews 6:1-3 in the King James Version).
As a side note, religious soul power sometimes drifts over into witchcraft which is also always exploited by religious spirits. Psychic phenomenon can be a form of witchcraft (alsoTarot cards, 'law of attraction,' numerology, mind over matter, etc.). Simon Magus of Acts 8:9-24 is an example of that. There are many so-called 'pastors' and other ministers who employ witchcraft control to compensate for their own spiritual powerlessness. Many music ministers and worship teams rely on witchcraft spirits and witchcraft methods to empower them. It's a lot more commonplace than most Christians would ever think.
The story about the Philippian girl of Acts chapter 16 (beginning with verse 16) is an example of how a religious spirit manifests through a human mouthpiece, as in what is going on with these RUclips religionists (i.e. teachers, so-called 'prophets,' and other assorted self-appointed 'Do-Gooders' who are doing their own thing in the Lord's name, some of whom are making a lot of money doing it). Bear in mind that everything the Philippian girl said was 100% correct, and was 100% the truth. But bear in mind also that it was a religious spirit speaking through her, the same as what is going on with these RUclips religionists.
As another side note, politics is actually a lot of people's religion, and politicians and their followers are often targeted by religious spirits. There are a lot of spiritually defunct false teachers and false prophets who have no anointing of the Holy Spirit whatsoever whose credibility is dependent on their ranting about politics (RUclips is awash with them). Since they have nothing of spiritual value to say, if they didn't rant about politics, nobody would pay much attention to anything they have to say.
In Mark 8:15 the Lord told his disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the leaven of Herod. As I understand it, the leaven of the Pharisees has to do with soul power religion that is devoid of the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and the leaven of Herod has to do with politics, both of which are all about control (kingdom of darkness control). In Ephesians 6:12 in the King James Version the Holy Spirit speaking through the Apostle Paul revealed that the fallen angels run the world system (which is why the world is so messed up). In that verse Paul referred to the fallen angels as 'principalities' who handpick the politicians and world leaders and the elitists who control them, as this verse infers (also Luke 4:6 in the King James Version).
As another side note, whenever someone gives rights to the kingdom of darkness overlords to lade them with a religious spirit, they will also lade them with a deaf, dumb, and blind spirit (per Psalm 115:5-8 in the King James Version), after which they will be unable to hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them, they will be unable to speak by the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and they will be unable to receive spiritual truth (they will have no spiritual discernment). Very often the way someone gives those rights is by making an idol of some religious leader.
Back during the mid-90's outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit spoke the following prophecy through several Christian prophets in the US and Canada which was this:
"When this outpouring ends the enemy is poised to retaliate against the outpouring with the biggest onslaught of religious activity in the history of the Lord's church."
That was about ten years before RUclips was invented. At the time the prophecy was given nobody was able to envision what it was the Lord was talking about. Now we know.
I always try to remember to advise Christians to start praying and asking the Lord to give them the gift of discerning of spirits (the Holy Spirit speaking through the Apostle Paul made mention of the gift of discerning of spirits in 1 Corinthians 12:10 in the King James Version), because if ever there was a time in human history when the gift of discerning of spirits was needed, it is now, especially these days when there are so many people falling for the RUclips false teachers and false prophets (and lauding them to the skies).
I also try to remember to advise Christians to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, because speaking in tongues is a super-weapon against the kingdom of darkness, particularly against their daily attempts at harassment and oppression.
I also always try to remember to advise Christians to never watch religious RUclips videos, for obvious reasons (obvious to me at least), and to spend the time they'd spend doing that seeking to develop a living relationship with the Holy Spirit in the quiet at home. (per Isaiah 30:15, Psalm 46:10, 1 Thessalonians 4:11, and Hebrews 4:11 all in the King James Version).
Your understanding of what Paul calls "The good fight' commonly called spiritual warfare. Which is why this discussion is as you suggest soul driven which speaks to your perception of who and how God the Holy Spirit works.
@@thembamaselane5885 ~ So what are you trying to tell me with your circular reasoning?
@@icouldbewrongbutithink5279 ~ What, did you speed-read my comment?
One time about ten years ago I read a comment by a Christian prophet (a real one) who wrote the following reply to a religious RUclips video:
"No Christian prophet will post a video on RUclips, or will allow himself to be interviewed in any RUclips video, or will go on TV for any reason."
With that being said, my view of it is that there isn't a single person posting videos on RUclips who speaks by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. So what does that leave? It leaves those who post religious videos to be anointed by religious spirits whose job in the kingdom of darkness is to mimic the Holy Spirit. Some of them can be pretty convincing, especially in the esteem of people who have had their spiritual discernment disabled as a result of their longtime consortium with religious spirits.
@@icouldbewrongbutithink5279 ~ I was right, you did speed-read my comment. Did you not read what I said about how the Philippian girl of Acts chapter sixteen was used as a mouthpiece by a religious spirit yet everything she said was 100% the truth. She wasn't lying and neither are most of the RUclips religionists. But they are being used by religious spirits as human mouthpieces just like she was. It isn't complicated.
@@icouldbewrongbutithink5279 ~ You said I think I'm the chosen one. I see that as a bit of projection on your part.
Some of what your replies tell me about you is that you've never seen or heard a true Christian prophet speak, nor have you ever experienced an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, plus you exhibit the characteristics of a narcissist who can't be told there are any flaws in his views.
Plus, everything you have said in these ridiculous replies of yours shows me that you are totally devoid of spiritual discernment.
My guess about you is that you have some kind of importance in some system church where the people love the status quo and will balk against anything that challenges it.
This might seem like it's off the subject (which it is), but I'm a bit curious to know if you live in the US, and if you do, if you're a democrat.