the fire was a known problem for deltics, being a two stroke engine oil would collect in the exhaust collector drum, when hot it would bake and form like a charcoal. and sometimes it would catch fire, not a real problem as its contained in the exhaust system, but in BR days they would have just thrashed the loco to blow the fire/ burnt oil out.
Darren Franklin Exactly right, a friend of mine now retired had one do it to him at the platform end at the Cross late one Afternoon and did exactly what you described. It was also a problem with the baby deltic, if they were used on an engineers train on the weekend where they spent a lot idling and then got put on a suburban working on Monday morning apparently a fire was almost inevitable. Of course nowadays the railway would have to be closed for about a month whilst an investigation is carried out and then we'd have to have a public enquiry into the outcome of the report in the meantime the entire fleet would be stopped. How much simpler it would be if the railway was still run by railwaymen.
Yep, having driven D9000 on the mainline myself I was lucky enough to not experience a collector drum fire, however the problem existed because the drain pipe from the collector drum would get blocked with oil and other drposits and back up into the drum itself, this happened again on 22 whilst on a tour to Paignton a few years ago. No probs though as the then owner sorted it out and it worked back dragging a duff at high speed, 😂😂😂 needless to say, mods were carried out and hopefully fires will now be a thing of the past with 22. 🤞
Tim Wattison It's amazing how they ran in service for twenty years with this potential problem and it takes preservationists to try and address the problem thirty some odd years after they finished regular service. It's the same with Duke Of Gloucester.
engines in these babies were completely revolutionary and at the time had the highest power to weight ratio of any engine in the world back in the day when Britain had big ideas and the political will to see them through to fruition
It always amazes me that what is now a great spectacle with hundreds of people travelling miles to see, was once an everyday occurrence which didn't attract a glance! Great footage. Thanks for sharing.
I used to bash the Deltics between Newark and Cleethorpes in 80-81 and sometimes I was practically the only person on the train, let alone bashers on the train.
Yeah, it was a fan trip. The locomotive was to haul it all day from Scotland to London but it didn't go as planned. It was a shame as many people had waited for the event for many, many years and a lot of folk worked hard to make it happen. However, the initial problems were worked out and we now have regular 100 MPH Deltic trips on the mainline once more!
Thanks so much for the memories. I was on this train (and probably visible somewhere in that sad crowd watching D9000 being hauled away into the dark, still smoking). Highlight of my entire trainspotting "career" during my 20+ years in England. I remember as we were approaching York, being pulled by (I think) a Class 47, someone had one of the early GPS receivers and was asking what the 47's were rated for. We were evidently going well over the rated speed. British Rail was NOT happy and wanted us off the ECML as soon as possible. Thanks again.
Each engine is two-stroke with a mechanically driven supercharger. The exhaust passes through a collector drum in order to reduce the amount of oil that is likely to be ejected to the atmosphere with the exhaust. This is where the fire occurred. In service, fires were sometimes blown out by racing the engines. In this instance the carbon build up in the collector drum was too severe for this method to work. For information about Napier Deltic engines web search for "Napier Deltic".
Standard practise for blowing out exhaust fires in Deltics. In BR days it was quite a common occurrence and drivers would frequently blow out a fire in this manner and carry on without any ill effects.
The result of too much oil in the collector drum at the free end of the engine! The delicious engine was designed to be given the guts! not be molly coddled!
On preservation work, D9015 had a hole drilled in the collector drum and any excess oil was drawn off...........I did it myself before a Butterley Running day in 1988.
indeed, 2 strokes need to be punished, it why they put Detroit Diesel in long haul busses and highway Trucks, even with lower rated hp than some of the 4 stroke competition, they would hold max power as long as you want, and deliver it's best milage at those engine speeds.. Downside is , unless it's getting the berries, problems arise ,..HST solved this with the genius power pack , engine could idle at stations or low speed no problem, but run reliably at high boost pressures once asked.. very efficient and 4 stroke emissions, we under estimate how good a design the power plant of the HST is.. it was a revolution at the time, and truly brought 4 stroke traction to the fore in reliability , light weight and good economy.. Paxman made a real Gem..
Fortunately, this Deltic went on to have another chance. In 2011, GB Railfreight needed more locomotives to cope with the demand in rail freight, and so "Royal Scots Grey" briefly came out of retirement to serve on the main line once more, albeit on loan to GB Railfreight. She served with GB Railfreight again for a brief period in 2013 as well. "Royal Scots Grey" has had a pretty eventful life, I would say.
I have had the privilege of operating these engines in a boat. I was wondering how they overcame it, the problem of exhaust fires. We had to run the engines at 1000 rpm for a minute after idleing for 5 minutes to stop pay reduce ultimate incident of funnel fire.
there was a deltic in glasgow's old eastfield traction depot last friday 12-7-2013, it's the first time i've seen one in the flesh and it's a magnificet beast to behold.
Thats a shame. But at least they got some decent running out of it before it broke down. Apparently there were a number of exhaust fires with HSTs during the introduction of the 91s, which was caused by long periods of idling. This was solved by running the diesel in tandem with the electric and thus keeping the exhausts free from unburned fuel.
Caused by Roger Radcliffe who now trades as Alycidon Engineering, a then DPS committee member tampering with the brakes via a MK1 coach butterfly valve. The DPS turned a blind eye to this as it was a DNLL loco and the DPS hated them for getting a Deltic on the mainline before they did. When Radcliffe got drunk and repeated the stunt, on a DPS trip to Scarborough and ending up in the Sun newspaper, the DPS booted him off the committee....
I like how people just walk around while a forty year old oil powered gas locomotive is intensely on fire and it is spreading, the people just seem like it’s normal to see a wildfire inside a fucking train 😂
That's a fire in the exhaust drum; not exactly an unknown Deltic phenomenon. The crew seemingly didn't know how to deal with it. Are there no time-served Deltic men left?
stuart fleming From what I understand about the Deltic control system, the second engine doesn't provide any power until the loco is moving above a certain speed, which with UK preserved railway line speeds you're just wasting engine hours. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable of the Deltic control system could explain better, if they want to.
Not a accident just oil in exhaust It builds up then burns you’ve got to take it out on main line and really load that engine up the get it burned off problem solved
The Napier Deltic engine was originally designed for fast marine use, and was fitted in Royal Navy patrol boats. Each engine has 18 pistons, arranged in an equilateral triangle shape block. It is a two stroke engine, and has two opposing pistons in each cylinder, each piston connected to one of the 3 crankshafts, one on each corner that feed their power to the engines main output drive. In the Class 55 Deltic, each engine can produce over 1625HP. Each Deltic locomotive has two of these engines fitted. It can run on one engine power, or two. The engines can work together, or independently, and both will come fully on song together when the driver needs the full combined constant power of 3300HP.
Just sheer diesel power !!. Thank you Brian for such a in-depth explanation, I thought I knew much about the Deltic Diesel prime mover but I've learnt more from your explanation.
That would be this same locomotive, currently in BR blue livery as 55022 - it's been hired in by GBRf and is being used to transfer class 334 units from Yoker to Kilmarnock, where they are being refurbished. It usually takes one set down to Kilmarnock and brings another one back.
That must have been a blown turbo right therewith unburned Oil out of the turbo. Very nice tho! What i dont understand is why do they keep on thrashing it instead of shutting it down ? Very nice vid!
I can't believe how long they let you continue to video that 😳😳 It was a bloody fire!!! Not just one simple backfire of the engine. Why wasn't the station evacuated & the engine shut down?? Love the vid though, well done.
Staltwitch junction well that's why the Navy took them out of minesweepers ?don't forget a minesweeper is a wooden ship and they had a few funnel fires
They were Replaced In the late 70's and Early 80's because BR felt that despite the fact that the Deltics were the only High speed/High performance diesels in their fleet It was simply too expensive to keep them on top link duties; which were being taken over By the 125 mph HST fixed formation DMUs anyway. They also Did not wish to re deploy them to different regions for other work due to the Class 47's being more cost effective for operating the Loco hauled Semi fast services as they Had standard Components so that one type of spare part could be used on a variety of classes. The Deltics as you may know were non standard designs which made Finding spare parts from other classes difficult. The last Deltics were withdrawn from service in 1982.
Scotsman60103 And to add on to what Scotsman60103. It has to be noted that these machines had two napier engines in them. That meant it cost double the amount to maintain them.
+goinghome They were complex in that the cylinders are arranged in a triangle formation like the greek letter delta enhance the deltic name. They were awkward to work as the restricted apace often means the power units have to be removed from the loco. To do any in depth work but they were phenomenally reliable most loco's racked up 3,000,000 plus miles in the working life and 5 of them are still going strong today.
It lived to see another day.
Great locos capable of cracking performances.😉👊👍
'The train burning on platform one is the 5 30 to....'
the fire was a known problem for deltics, being a two stroke engine oil would collect in the exhaust collector drum, when hot it would bake and form like a charcoal. and sometimes it would catch fire, not a real problem as its contained in the exhaust system, but in BR days they would have just thrashed the loco to blow the fire/ burnt oil out.
Darren Franklin Exactly right, a friend of mine now retired had one do it to him at the platform end at the Cross late one Afternoon and did exactly what you described. It was also a problem with the baby deltic, if they were used on an engineers train on the weekend where they spent a lot idling and then got put on a suburban working on Monday morning apparently a fire was almost inevitable. Of course nowadays the railway would have to be closed for about a month whilst an investigation is carried out and then we'd have to have a public enquiry into the outcome of the report in the meantime the entire fleet would be stopped. How much simpler it would be if the railway was still run by railwaymen.
Yep, having driven D9000 on the mainline myself I was lucky enough to not experience a collector drum fire, however the problem existed because the drain pipe from the collector drum would get blocked with oil and other drposits and back up into the drum itself, this happened again on 22 whilst on a tour to Paignton a few years ago. No probs though as the then owner sorted it out and it worked back dragging a duff at high speed, 😂😂😂 needless to say, mods were carried out and hopefully fires will now be a thing of the past with 22. 🤞
Tim Wattison It's amazing how they ran in service for twenty years with this potential problem and it takes preservationists to try and address the problem thirty some odd years after they finished regular service. It's the same with Duke Of Gloucester.
engines in these babies were completely revolutionary and at the time had the highest power to weight ratio of any engine in the world back in the day when Britain had big ideas and the political will to see them through to fruition
It always amazes me that what is now a great spectacle with hundreds of people travelling miles to see, was once an everyday occurrence which didn't attract a glance! Great footage. Thanks for sharing.
I used to bash the Deltics between Newark and Cleethorpes in 80-81 and sometimes I was practically the only person on the train, let alone bashers on the train.
yes but then they used to just rev the engine to blow out the fire in the silencer drum.
Could say the same about the HSTs now, no?
Oh it always attracted glances. The Deltic, like Concorde, never failed to turn heads.
Yeah, it was a fan trip. The locomotive was to haul it all day from Scotland to London but it didn't go as planned. It was a shame as many people had waited for the event for many, many years and a lot of folk worked hard to make it happen. However, the initial problems were worked out and we now have regular 100 MPH Deltic trips on the mainline once more!
Thanks so much for the memories. I was on this train (and probably visible somewhere in that sad crowd watching D9000 being hauled away into the dark, still smoking). Highlight of my entire trainspotting "career" during my 20+ years in England. I remember as we were approaching York, being pulled by (I think) a Class 47, someone had one of the early GPS receivers and was asking what the 47's were rated for. We were evidently going well over the rated speed. British Rail was NOT happy and wanted us off the ECML as soon as possible. Thanks again.
The rescue loco at Berwick was a 37. That was swapped for an 86 at Newcastle as I recall. I was on the train as well.
It was ment to catch fire at 8 15 but as usual they were/are running late..
Its no biggy. Everything comes to a halt at Berwick upon Tweed. Hopes. Dreams. Deltics...the list is practically endless.
I agree...
but it all depends which direction you are traveling.
;)
Each engine is two-stroke with a mechanically driven supercharger. The exhaust passes through a collector drum in order to reduce the amount of oil that is likely to be ejected to the atmosphere with the exhaust. This is where the fire occurred. In service, fires were sometimes blown out by racing the engines. In this instance the carbon build up in the collector drum was too severe for this method to work. For information about Napier Deltic engines web search for "Napier Deltic".
They were not supercharged,they were air charged with a scavenge blower. Rick M.
made worse by probably light loading and now going on fire when it sees a bit of work to really get the heat up in the exhaust
it is amazing the 25kv didn't flash over as flames are conductive
Standard practise for blowing out exhaust fires in Deltics. In BR days it was quite a common occurrence and drivers would frequently blow out a fire in this manner and carry on without any ill effects.
Not much if any, the fire was contained in the exhaust system which is able to withstand high temperatures. These fires were common in normal service.
The result of too much oil in the collector drum at the free end of the engine! The delicious engine was designed to be given the guts! not be molly coddled!
#Deltic
On preservation work, D9015 had a hole drilled in the collector drum and any excess oil was drawn off...........I did it myself before a Butterley Running day in 1988.
+kelly what was the cause of the fire in the end?
Roger Radcliffe a DPS committee member operating the train brakes from the coaches.
indeed, 2 strokes need to be punished, it why they put Detroit Diesel in long haul busses and highway Trucks, even with lower rated hp than some of the 4 stroke competition, they would hold max power as long as you want, and deliver it's best milage at those engine speeds..
Downside is , unless it's getting the berries, problems arise ,..HST solved this with the genius power pack , engine could idle at stations or low speed no problem, but run reliably at high boost pressures once asked.. very efficient and 4 stroke emissions, we under estimate how good a design the power plant of the HST is.. it was a revolution at the time, and truly brought 4 stroke traction to the fore in reliability , light weight and good economy.. Paxman made a real Gem..
Haha! What is even louder than a Deltic? Scottish pipes... :D
i noticed that. ;-)
Is that what that horrific noise was.
Great video !
Fortunately, this Deltic went on to have another chance. In 2011, GB Railfreight needed more locomotives to cope with the demand in rail freight, and so "Royal Scots Grey" briefly came out of retirement to serve on the main line once more, albeit on loan to GB Railfreight. She served with GB Railfreight again for a brief period in 2013 as well.
"Royal Scots Grey" has had a pretty eventful life, I would say.
My first flight was a Connie, 1951
HELLFIRE !
I have had the privilege of operating these engines in a boat. I was wondering how they overcame it, the problem of exhaust fires. We had to run the engines at 1000 rpm for a minute after idleing for 5 minutes to stop pay reduce ultimate incident of funnel fire.
Ian Higgins i
Is this where the Deltics got their extra power? AFTERBURNERS???
Lol. They have fat compressors but this was not right. Ran a bit rich. Think someone accidentally pulled the choke.🤡
Look at how the fire of the second engine on the right it’s touching the Berwick upon tweed station canopy
As I can see this is a special train with old Deltics, I must say that I am happy to see the much needed electrification for regular everyday usage.!
It's the bane of diesel engines not run at full load. They get "wet stacked" and have to be run hard to burn it all out.
And now, over half a century later, an everyday diesel car has a similar problem with DPFs. Progress eh?
just crappy designed engines it is....
there was a deltic in glasgow's old eastfield traction depot last friday 12-7-2013, it's the first time i've seen one in the flesh and it's a magnificet beast to behold.
Such a nice diesel locomotive. A beast that likes to eat miles :X!
Thats a shame. But at least they got some decent running out of it before it broke down.
Apparently there were a number of exhaust fires with HSTs during the introduction of the 91s, which was caused by long periods of idling. This was solved by running the diesel in tandem with the electric and thus keeping the exhausts free from unburned fuel.
At 10:04 RIP overhead wire that got fried
We´d like listen to the noise and extreme profanityes!
That was awesome. Liked it.
Caused by Roger Radcliffe who now trades as Alycidon Engineering, a then DPS committee member tampering with the brakes via a MK1 coach butterfly valve. The DPS turned a blind eye to this as it was a DNLL loco and the DPS hated them for getting a Deltic on the mainline before they did. When Radcliffe got drunk and repeated the stunt, on a DPS trip to Scarborough and ending up in the Sun newspaper, the DPS booted him off the committee....
1:06 that horn sounds like it means business compared to Other more standard locomotives of its time.
Who's got the marshmallows?
Hellfire in a literal sense
This is like a Deltic Movie being up there surveying the area lol
Aah i understand now Thanks for explaining it :)
Cheers
I used to go Kings X to Peterborough one night a week after work just for the ride behind one of these
I love the Deltic sound as much as I hate the bagpipe sound. Tuneless, ear-piercing windybags..
love this train video
like bloody love em !!!
hi everyone where is the class 37 going with the class 55 please tell me!!!!!
They said it's a £50 fine for smoking tobacco on a railway. But what's the fine for chewing tobacco ?
Can remember it very well .
And you can be fined £50 for smoking on any railway platform?
Or more if it's weed your caught smoking.
"Disco Inferno" :-)
It takes alot to starter a Deltic engine. Chris Barrie once had to do alot of pumping and winding.
Troll here: If this had happened on an airplane, one thing is for damn sure. People wouldn't have been standing around gawking at it.
thing the bagpipe music drove it nuts?
I like how people just walk around while a forty year old oil powered gas locomotive is intensely on fire and it is spreading, the people just seem like it’s normal to see a wildfire inside a fucking train 😂
Surprised it didn’t melt the OHLE
when you put the train on the highest notch of power
“Duh, it’s supposed to be on fire”
pop goes the diesel
Interestin that the class 86 electric loco in the film is not that much younger than the class55, but still in service.
except the 86's are what 40 now
On fire & late. For the UK I'd say that's working perfectly.
Looks like a blown turbo.
deltics werent turbo,d but blowing on them helps coz its 2stroke diesel.
NAPIER....
'Ere, now, what's all this, then?
thanks for the reply, i tried to tape it on my smartphone but i had only just got it and wasn't sure how it worked lol.
Burn Baby Burn, sorry for the immaturity that used to be a common sight when these were running everyday
That's a fire in the exhaust drum; not exactly an unknown Deltic phenomenon.
The crew seemingly didn't know how to deal with it. Are there no time-served Deltic men left?
UH, YOUR LOCO IS ON FIRE
Keep it running and blast it out
The resale value of that catenary is going to be nil.
When is a Deltic not a Deltic ? When it's running on one engine !!
Then it's a baby Deltic.
I have seen a lot of deltic video's on youtube and they alway's are just running on one engine are they scared of burning more fuel or something.
stuart fleming From what I understand about the Deltic control system, the second engine doesn't provide any power until the loco is moving above a certain speed, which with UK preserved railway line speeds you're just wasting engine hours. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable of the Deltic control system could explain better, if they want to.
+Stoat13 Engine no 2 kicks in at 20mph it has to be used in the winter months for the electric train heating to work.
Exhaust fire. One Class 55 start its engines or blow up. should be with drawn and on static display.
that loco shouyld of bee shut down right away tha put people in danger i thaught all diesel locos whe fitted with fire fighting units onboard
Fucking Hell, learn to speak English or at least grammar and spell check before commenting
cool vid.
Great video of the Deltic. How did they put it out ?
Poor old girl......
ah the Detlic's, the class 28's may have suffered with teething troubles, but they didn't catch fire every other day
oil in the
exhaust?
Would the fire have caused any damage to the loco?
not good what time did you get back to start point
there must be a thing between napier and fires,an old fella once told me it was common when starting napier sabre fighter engines in ww2
I guess that's the last we saw of D9000
Charlotte Clarke Nope, It's still around and sometimes was on hire to GBRF a few years ago, but it's at the NYMR now.
Alastair Lunn I would've thought they had to scrap it after an incident like this.
Not a accident just oil in exhaust It builds up then burns you’ve got to take it out on main line and really load that engine up the get it burned off problem solved
Common fault with the Napier Deltic, oil in the exhaust silencer caused many fires
Is this engine the same as a spitfire? They both sound awesome in both form's of transport.
No, that had a Rolls Royce Merlin V12 engine, this has a two stroke, opposed piston diesel engine.
The Napier Deltic engine was originally designed for fast marine use, and was fitted in Royal Navy patrol boats. Each engine has 18 pistons, arranged in an equilateral triangle shape block. It is a two stroke engine, and has two opposing pistons in each cylinder, each piston connected to one of the 3 crankshafts, one on each corner that feed their power to the engines main output drive. In the Class 55 Deltic, each engine can produce over 1625HP. Each Deltic locomotive has two of these engines fitted. It can run on one engine power, or two. The engines can work together, or independently, and both will come fully on song together when the driver needs the full combined constant power of 3300HP.
Just sheer diesel power !!. Thank you Brian for such a in-depth explanation, I thought I knew much about the Deltic Diesel prime mover but I've learnt more from your explanation.
Step forward, Mr Rodger Radcliffe DPS
Its all fun and games until somebody loses a head.
Just take it and rev the knackers out of it at speed problem solved
Was this a normal service or a special one
Never understood the appeal of Deltics, equipped with an overly complex and somewhat fragile engine.
Now, an A 4, and we are really talking !!
Unbelievable look like is overheat of this train cause catch fire wasn't???!
cool , id like to be on one of those 55's
of couse if it wasn't on fire
That would be this same locomotive, currently in BR blue livery as 55022 - it's been hired in by GBRf and is being used to transfer class 334 units from Yoker to Kilmarnock, where they are being refurbished. It usually takes one set down to Kilmarnock and brings another one back.
That must have been a blown turbo right therewith unburned Oil out of the turbo. Very nice tho! What i dont understand is why do they keep on thrashing it instead of shutting it down ? Very nice vid!
no turbo, supercharged 2 stroke, oil build up in exhaust like most 2 strokes!
dont think that was suppose to set on fire at 9.00
Not good how the hell did that happen lol
Was this what we Yanks call a railfan trip or was it a revenue run?
The former. Deltics were withdrawn from revenue-earning service by BR in the early 1980s.
I can't believe how long they let you continue to video that 😳😳 It was a bloody fire!!! Not just one simple backfire of the engine. Why wasn't the station evacuated & the engine shut down??
Love the vid though, well done.
the problem was she had been running all morning then the driver was giving her the guns which then caused her to overheat
8:51 it's on fire
Prolly should have just run it and let it burn its self out.
In Britain, the most One dead locomotives.
Did it actually catch fire?
what do you think?
Staltwitch junction well that's why the Navy took them out of minesweepers ?don't forget a minesweeper is a wooden ship and they had a few funnel fires
@@bobsmart2110 the Deltic minesweepers were/are fibreglass.
what the deltic name
55022 Royal Scots Grey
Its is hull train station
GAURAV
Hii
Engine failed
When and why were Deltics phased out?-No profanity please!
They were Replaced In the late 70's and Early 80's because BR felt that despite the fact that the Deltics were the only High speed/High performance diesels in their fleet It was simply too expensive to keep them on top link duties; which were being taken over By the 125 mph HST fixed formation DMUs anyway. They also Did not wish to re deploy them to different regions for other work due to the Class 47's being more cost effective for operating the Loco hauled Semi fast services as they Had standard Components so that one type of spare part could be used on a variety of classes. The Deltics as you may know were non standard designs which made Finding spare parts from other classes difficult. The last Deltics were withdrawn from service in 1982.
Scotsman60103
And to add on to what Scotsman60103. It has to be noted that these machines had two napier engines in them. That meant it cost double the amount to maintain them.
Not entirely sure; but the spares were few and far between meaning that the class as a whole was expensive to maintain.
+goinghome They were complex in that the cylinders are arranged in a triangle formation like the greek letter delta enhance the deltic name. They were awkward to work as the restricted apace often means the power units have to be removed from the loco. To do any in depth work but they were phenomenally reliable most loco's racked up 3,000,000 plus miles in the working life and 5 of them are still going strong today.