"Supercars" are irrelevant to Australians. It's that simple. There are NO local manufacturers. Zero reason for Australians to watch. Bathurst of the 1970's had a huge audience. Wonder why?
And GT3 cars lap faster. They're slow by comparison, highly homogulated, and it's a 2 badge (not car) series. They need to get some variety in there - that's what made Bathurst so good.
Well, there is one reason only for Aussies to go to boring nascar, MONEY! They can make a lot more money, and it doesn't require the same level of skill to drive around in circles! But here's the BIG problem, since the demise of the Holden V Ford rivalry V8 slushcars has deteriorated markedly. Aussies aren't interested in Yank Tanks. What needs to happen is they need to change the name back to Touring Cars, Get Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc involved. Only allow homologation of vehicles actually sold in numbers in Aus to compete, as used to be. Take it back to a home competition, keep the Sepos out, everything they touch they F up! It's like having shit Septic Tank groups perform at the Grand Final. Aussies are there for the Footy, not some overhyped Sepo bullshit! Yanks go on about Ads, bloody Ads at their halftime wankfest! This is why Supercars are done, and they will go into obscurity sadly, even with the legacy of some of the worlds greatest drivers like Brocky and Dick Johnson.
You could say they left long before Holden did. The last Supercars Holden always looked exactly like the Opel Insignia. (Bonus for Euro people: Just change the badge and you have imported a Holden to the EU!)
If you were an actual motorsport fan then you'd still be watching regardless of the make. You are missing out on a great series if you think it's because an Australian manufacturer isn't represented. Also the ownership hasn't been Australian for decades.
My reason for loosing interest is that most of the races are not on "free to air" tv anymore... they show a 1hr "highlights" package at 1am in the morning. They then sometimes show the same highlights at 2pm on the monday after the race weekend, you know, when people are at work... In these times of financial hardship, not everyone can afford kayo/foxtel etc. this includes the base core of followers on lower incomes.
This killed it for me too. Stopped watching when it went to pay tv in NZ. Tried to get back into it about a year ago but my enthusiasm for the series is dead.
This killed Supercars, which wasn't a huge passion of mine, along with any chance of following Cricket. The budget is tight in many households, and paying for TV sport can be one of the first things to go.
Totally agree. I used to be a massive Supercar fan but since the move to pay TV I've lost interest. TBH, the British Touring Car Championships and the various TCR championships have far better racing.
I'm involved in the industry in other categories. I still have very old racing and officials licenses. I hear the chat and rumours from Supercars personally and on the grapevine: 1. The tyres are rubbish (as SVG alluded to) but no one will publicly say it because bad tires work better than no tyres. Australia motorsport is a small market for them, so that company's spec tyres, no matter what category, have never been well received generally. Add in they're big heavy awkward cars and you're in tyre conservation mode right from the parade lap. It doesn't help the racing. 2. Gen3 is a spec kit series with a choice of standard bodywork and standard engine. There is no real room for innovation or engineering excellence. The quest for parity has taken away any gains. The cars are all the same under the skin, in the engine shop and in the wind tunnel, and that means boredom. HOWEVER, Aussie Racing Cars are a spec series with a spec engine and choice of bodywork and they do mighty fine because as in all lower categories (e.g. Porsches) there's still a spread of talent that lets people shine. 3. Supercars is up against the two main football codes for much of their season, who soak up most of the national sponsorship dollar, air time and media interest pools. FFS Oscar Piastri hardly gets a mention! 4. Historically the series, going all the way back to the Group N days, had some sort of visual relevance. They went from cars you could buy in the showroom to cars like you could buy in the showroom to they look like cars you can buy in the showroom to caricatures of cars you might see on the road. Now I can't even see them in the car dealerships. And Toyota coming on board is ambitious to say the least- I don't know how relevant a Supra is. 5. Motorsport generally: the media isn't helping by restricting access and when they do they concentrate on one or two categories. There's little in the way of feeder interest for spectators or sponsors/partners. It's only the top category and as that's gotten boring, interest in motorsport generally is waning. 6. Which means tracks are getting fewer. In the time I've raced, we've lost Amaroo, Oran Park, Wakefield Park, and Homebush and Newcastle street circuits in the general Sydney area alone. SMS has issues too. Then there's Calder, Lakeside, AIR. Wanneroo has issues. Property is worth more as houses. OTOH FIA circuit licensing requirements these days mean that the older tracks probably wouldn't qualify to hold a supercars race. Fun fact: Bathurst's license doesn't qualify for F1 (or S5000 open wheelers...) and to bring it up to that license standard would take away what makes it Bathurst. 7. Supercars management and Motorsport Australia are both locked into a path and know best. Ask them. They'll tell you. We think they're getting very stale, because- One thing is common across all the major sports in Australia- when they look for entertainment for half time at the football finals, or the gigs after say Surfers Paradise Supercars, it's clear someone threw a dart into their dusty 80s and 90s CD collection, and said "Book 'em". There's no connection with what the spectators and public want TODAY
Someone asked why S5000 were at Bathurst a couple of years ago. They had a special dispensation once they were detuned to get below the power/weight limit of the circuit license. It's also a reason why Supercars control the engines - imagine if they couldn't race at Bathurst because the power/weight ratios exceeded the license... Here's the Wiki on circuit licensing. You really don't want to read FIA Appendix O... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_racing_circuits_by_FIA_grade
Best comment here, thank you! We struggling, here in NZ too. Mind you, Lawson has been all over the news, we'll see for how long. For me, at the moment, I prefer watching the Improved Production Series, relevant cars and the completion is awesome. Yes OK was originally Jordan Cox that drew me in but loving the show!
It's the natural progression of things when corporate interests take over the running, not just the support of motor racing. Good things always decline and fall when profit is the only driving force. And they never get it til it's too late.
I agree with 2-7. As for #1 - as someone who hasn't read too much into the complaints of SVG, and without any personal interest - motorsport would be far more entertaining if the tire sucked but *were* consistent... marbles get in the way of passing, and if the desire of parity is that the best drivers rise to the top, then the best drivers will need to adapt to the tire and they'll do well with the extended offset of their performance against the less competent drivers. Demographically, I'd bet the owners of 80s CD collections now have the most disposable income... It might not be doing them any favours long term but they might know what they're doing for today. A bit of a tangent: lots of blokes are ripping AFLW (because it really does suck as a product) but as far as the long term viability of a niche sport, the AFL might know what they're doing. More than anything, the sport lacks the star power it once had. I remember the old hand going for #10... the heroes and villians were in half a dozen teams... Skaiffe and Lowndes at HRT and the hero LP using all the cunning as a privateer. There's no way to get that back. The sport has strived for parity so anyone who puts a car on the road can win, but the fans have to have an appreciation of that... You can't rewind the clock.
As an Australian I go to Bathurst for the GT3 12 hour race every year. I love watching the Mussle Car masters - older cars that are actually recognisable . I haven't watched the Supercars for years - too boring.
I spoke to a Ford crew member from one of the big teams barely an hr into the race and he said they didn't have the race pace and were basically waiting for a safety car or other issues to bring life to the race. Barely one hour in and that was the feeling
@@mikekruger2946 Sounds like Monaco F1 lol. The only reason that place is still on the F1 map is because of history; maybe when the smaller 2026 cars roll around we'll see some overtaking.
@tulmar4548 - I could not agree more!!! The last couple of years since switching to Gen 3 have been AWFUL. Until they change the format and bring back proper touring cars (as we had in the 90's) I refuse watch it any more or go to races. I totally love the GT3 endurance race at Bathurst (I go every year) but Supercars is just totally irrelevant now - we need cars that Aussies (and Kiwis since there are 1 or two rounds there every year) actually drive not American muscle that hardly anyone here drives or can afford.
I used to watch V8 supercars religiously every weekend they were on... especially the Bathurst 1000 ! Now it's almost predictable! I barely even watch the Bathurst 1000. It's a shame that we here in Australia don't have our car industry anymore. Being 59 years old I've seen the good ole days dissapear. 😢
Me too mate. I grew up watching Aussie Touring Cars and Bathurst and now I don’t even watch unless there’s nothing else on and it’s Bathurst. The cars suck, the drivers suck, the commentary sucks. It all sucks.
@@mintoxace5571 I remember watching the big GT's and GTS MONARO'S round up the little mini coopers on the straights and then those little bricks with their wheels on backwards to get a wider track would take the V8's in the corners. Bloody good ole days for sure. What won on Sunday sold on monday was the saying !
Australian political puppets must believe it's progress to have LESS manufacturing in your own country and more dependant on manufacturing from other countries... like China, Taiwan, Bangladesh... Anywhere but the 'lucky' country!
I’ve stopped watching V8 Supercars a few years ago. Their rules have just become ridiculous and Mark Skaife has way too much say and his views are not healthy for the sport. With a relatively small population for the size if the country it is not economically viable to run every weekend. Plus the racing is boring.
Mark Skaife was/is so in love with Jamie Whincup... You could hear him drool EVERY time he spoke about him. It made for boring commentary, especially since he reckons Whincup NEVER did anything wrong...
@@TomMetcalf-r6c As long as they let the big teams spend the most money to produce the best car & win championships, then it's gonna die pretty quickly...
@@MikeMatthews-y7w I know it happened I am saying it's bullshit that it was better racing, fans think that's what they want because of nostalgia but it's really not what they want they just want to be angry and whine like little kids, if a car won by 6 laps at Bathurst now the fans would riot.
I'm an Aussie who started to lose interest in local racing when we went to a V8 formula to begin with from 1994 (we went exclusively V8s from 1994 - in 1993 we still allowed the BMW E30 EVOs to race and there was also a 2 litre class but it was principally V8s). Prior to 1993 the racing allowed for incredible variety of vehicles and they absolutely had to be heavily based on the road car equivalents. You could say that they were extensively modified homologated road cars rather than race cars based of the imaginings of a road car. 1985 to 1987 were arguably the best years because unlike the Sierra years and Nissan GTR years, you never had any idea of what car would win - it often came down to setup and tyre nuances and the weather favouring one particular car and driver over the rest. I did "put up" with the later V8 racing for a few years but the first few years of V8 racing was actually pretty good despite the lack of variety. But once the good guard retired, we were effectively left with a sanitised sport with drivers who really did not have personalities like the old guard did. By the time we went to spaceframes when the whole thing was completely fake (relative to road cars) apart from badges and mirrors, I had had enough. I stopped watching and have not watched it for over 26 years. I do not miss it either. But I sure miss the old days. It certainly did not help either that the sport went to Pay TV and become expensive to watch even during the good financial times. In the current economy, it would be the first thing I'd be ditching even if I was still a fan.
Group A was wonderful from 85-86, then in 87 the woefully inadequate turbo factor reared its head, completely made a mockery by the RS500, and even when they bumped it from 1.4 to 1.7 in 88 it was still a turbo fest. They could have fixed it by restricting the turbos to their road going boost, but sadly they didnt
The old V8 engines in the Holdens and Fords were completely outdated and they were the cars most spectators wanted to see at the time so the marketing took over, push V8 racing, Australians have a love affair with V8s and Holden and Ford, it wasn’t good for the image to beaten on the track by a 4 or 6 cylinder import car. When motoring gods like Brock and Moffat start racing imported cars, it was the end of civilisation as we knew it.
Not having anything actually made in Australia. The whole Supercar platform was built around locally produced cars whether they be Holden or Ford. Whilst other manufacturers competed in the class they were seen as guests to the main show Holden vs Ford. Certain versions of the race cars were sold in small qualifying numbers to the public (around 200). It's now all American connection no Australian connection and people have left, including longtime die-hard fans.
People stopped buying Australian cars 25 years ago. Sales figures prove it. Maybe if the Australian people supported Australian brands, Australia would still have them. But no, this country doesn’t like accountability and therefore will never learn
@@HarrisonCarter-b5nwin on Sunday sell on Monday hasn’t been a thing for decades now anywhere in the world. There are production car classes but you are not watching that.
I'm 64 so I remember watching the Hardie Ferodo Bathurst 500 (I think it was originally 500 miles) and watched it's slow descent into boredom over the past few years. For me, the 'Jump the Shark' moment was Dave Reynolds getting the biggest CAMS fine of $25,000 for an off-colour joke about the Harvey Norman Super Girls team - who crashed out on lap 8 after hitting an oil patch that everyone else avoided. It told me the management was more interested in appealing to the ABC's Q&A panel than being reasonable. A warning to 'keep it civil' would have done.
Absolutely. The DEI and political correctness has pushed the target market away and not attracted any progressives. Touring cars, Group C and even Group A were the good days. The V8 Holden/Ford Supercars has been a dead end where we've ended up with a sanitary/boring Chev vs Mustang. Add to that nothing much on the market in new cars to form a series. Plus teenagers want drifting, destruction/crashes (because they are generally lacking repsonsiblity) and turbo blow off sounds.
I can't say I was overly impressed with Reynolds remarks - that's the type of thing that might be said after the cameras are turned off. However when one half of that girl's team went to a much more colourful profession any sympathy I had for them went out the window.
I used to LOVE the Australian Touring Car Championship before it became "Supercars" Watching Ford Sierras and Nissan GTR's go against the mighty Holder Commodore was a thing to behold. My Uncle had a group "A" Commodore and it was super close to what raced. Still have a commodore but nothing remotely like it takes part in this new series.
Yep, most enjoyable times was when the Officials tried to slap Larry Perkins with the rule book, time and time again. And yet, he'd end up beating and embarrassing more often than not because he had a better grasp of the rules and regulations than they did themselves. Still to this day they stuff it up.
Supercars Australia really fucked themselves and the fans when they went to a subscription tv format a few years ago. A lot of us grew up watching free to air and for a long while it was protected, but it's slowly been gutted to send everything except a couple of enduros to pay tv. That's cost them an enormous number of fans and viewers who, since they no longer can watch every race, become disconnected from the series and rapidly lose interest. I hope to watch the slow demise of supercars, as that will be entirely brought upon themselves by greed and ignoring the fans.
As a Holden enthusiast, I stopped watching it with the demise of Holden, but I was loosing interest for the previous 10 years. Australian sedan racing was traditionally based around 'Touring Cars'. Standard, or modified road cars that were capable of touring Australia's often horrendous rural roads. The grand tourers GT badge was earnt. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday. The cars had relevance to what you could buy at the dealership. In the mid 90s, they started a new formula (called 'V8 Supercars') that allowed many more freedoms. By 2000 the teams were assembling their own bodyshells, 2007 started the move away from factory panels. Now the cars had zero relevance to the cars we could buy. Holden died a slow, lingering death, and the new cars are bloody ugly. The way they paint them, they all look the same. Mustangs and Camaros look very similar, until your eyes can focus on a tail light or grill badge. THEY DON'T PUT NUMBERS ON THE SIDES OF THE CARS. They put a little yellow, 6 inch high sticker on the rear side window, so it's hard to keep track. They own the production company that films the events, and the main commentators have stakes in the operation. That'll do. I now have zero interest. Anything before about 95 is cool, But it's down hill after that.
Yes. I think I could say that 95 to 96 were just about the last years where I still followed it with any serious intent but for me the best years were the Group C and Group A days (though admittedly I think the Group A rule makers got it very badly wrong by neglecting to ban 4 wheel drive before any manufacturer even put anything on the drawing board plus the turbo equivalency factor just couldn't keep up with technology - this meant the final years of Group A were not as exciting as, say 1985 to 1989). Having said that, I think aerodynamics were always going to ruin motorsport for me - I followed motorsport because of my fascination of cars, drivers and engineers battling to put power down within the bounds purely of mechanical grip. For me, aero just ruined it.
There is a simple fix - for me anyway. Make it a proper touring cars championship like it was in the 80's - who can forget the Schnitzer BMW 635's, the Walkinshaw Jags, the Brock Sierra's, the Nissan Skyline's etc etc, they were the best years for me. Only my 2c but Holden v Ford got tiresome for me many years ago. I think production car racing is in big trouble though as more and more people buy fully electric cars so who knows what will happen? But at the current rate I give Supercars 2-3 more years max before it finally fizzles and dies an undignified death.
V8 Supercars paddock is notoriously toxic. Nobody says it out loud but many people alluded to it. Everybody just seems to be way too intense and on the edge all the time. I mean you've got drivers fighting in the post season gala ceremony of all places and a team co-owner who is so tactless that he manages to piss off his own driver champion so bad that he would sit out half of the season
@@blackjacktrialI like to call it the ‘NASCAR Repco Australia Series’ now, the modern Supercars Championship is not V8 Supercars by heart anymore, it’s just Supercars in name only, other than that, it’s just NASCAR but on road courses
Grew up watching group A touring cars We had jags bmws sierras mustangs volvos commodores celiac , shittons of everything, depending on the track 40,50,60+ fields . Backmarkers, recovery trucks on the road , broken down cars on the side of the course . The drivers had balls of steel . The racing was a spectacle . Pit stops meant something. The racing now is so boring . Someone farts in his car ,safety car bunch up the field . Nothing happens it’s just a boring procession . I literally watched ten minutes of Bathurst this year , doing laps on my ride on for 5 hrs was more enthralling so I mowed instead .
The touring car series was the best. I recall as a kid watching a camaro and a mini cooper duelling it out at Lakeside. Every lap the cooper overtook in the corners while the camaro got the cooper on the straight...Absolutely rivetting.
Especially when people no longer have the money to spend on it. I'm flat out as it is with a plain $18 Stan subscription - I can't afford the sport add-on!
You hit the nail on the head mate. Once Holden got closed down, it lost the appeal to the everyday fan. The cars used to resemble what we drove on the road every day. Now they’re cars that the every day fan could never afford.
This. ^ ^ I'd rather see Mercs and BMW racing, as I see more of those around than Camaros and Mustangs. If V8SCs isn't able to garner the interest of those manufacturers... well, it says a lot. Add in the fact that (as many others have said) they are not unique underneath, and have no resemblence to an actual road-car anymore, what's the point? GT3 is now by far the more interesting category.
@@Spiraldeath I think there's room to split into 2 categories, GT3 and, for lack of a better term, GT5...so your Hyundai N, Toyota GR and so on. Lower speeds but the cars are relevant to fans and lower costs to the teams, and because the cars are attainable to begin with it makes the sport more relevant to a larger audience.
The other big problem is population, or lack of it. Australia has less people than Texas but is about the same size as the whole lower 48 of the US. That means travel costs are insane and there just isn't the people in those areas to make up the dollars. Even if NASCAR is a long way from the most popular in the US these days it still pulls around 2.5-3 million viewers per race. Australias most popular sports league brings just around a million viewers on average per match and that's the top sport. Supercars would be lucky to be in the top 7 most watched sports in Australia now. This wasn't as much of a problem in the past as the cars were much cheaper to run but as time has gone on the costs have gone way up while the viewers have dropped way off, not a recipe for financial success. Also while the whole world's car culture is definitely declining Australia's has declined much quicker. Its hard to find people interested in cars at all, and for the few who are F1 is what people gravitate toward as there's been at least 1 Aussie in F1 for the last 25 years, and all 3 have won a few races so there was and is hype around them here. I really thought Supercars was genuinely on it's deathbed which is why it shocked me when Toyota joined recently, so hopefully there's some life left.
@@joshanderson9391 Supercars will survive but in what form? Is it a hybrid of NASCAR & Supercars? Let’s face it, the old saying of win on Sunday and sell on Monday doesn’t cut it. You can’t buy a Camaro and Toyota is about to kill the Supra.
Bit of rubbish, teams once drove the race cars to tracks for a shakedown, Melbourn to Bathurst at fair speed. Should be looking to go back to those days.
As an 'old fart' who recalls the origins of supercar racing, which really started at the annual Bathurst race back in the 1960's, it has been interesting (and sad) to watch the digression. If I were to sum up the decline in one word it would be 'professionalism'. More professional = more boring. The reason so many people got so enthralled in the event back in those days was it was real cars being punted by (relatively) ordinary blokes (ie they actually worked other jobs). And when the Holden V8 vs Ford V8 tussle started in 68 it went to a level of interest and excitement never seen before, nor since. Sadly, as in all things it became more and more professional, and now it's a drag (as in boring not race). As to why so many Oz & Kiwi drivers are heading to the US? Don't let them fool you mate, it's the money.
I just hope with Toyota showing up soon Supercars don't make the same mistake around 6ish years ago where they basically treated the foreign OEMs (Nissan, Volvo, and Mercedes) as complete afterthoughts. IMO Supercars need to let go of the whole "GM Vs Ford" thing as its main selling point and instead treat it as an extra (major) bonus of the league.
@@benjamindeloney It's even more important here in Australia where Toyota have been the dominant market leading brand with nearly 30% market share for over 25 years.
Toyota was supposed to come in 2013 with Lexus . Let’s see if BMW follow in because it only be a fount end and barge charge. Toyota is coming in this next season I thought ? The old hdt signed a deal
Supercars has always been a bogan series. It appealed to bogans as they could loosely copy the cars into road cars. Now there is nothing to copy and the racing is trying to move up market. This racing does not appeal to middle class and they are more likely to follow European style cars. Mark Skaife can take a lot of the blame for this. He pushed for street circuits and space framed cars in the name of safety but at the expense of entrainment.
Those bogans are going to run out of Falcodores at some point. I don't completely agree with you. The driver's have become politically correct and the commentary is hardly as interesting as in the days of Brock, Perkins and Johnson.
@@rbowe6 Or Jim Richard's speaking to the crowed after Bathurst 1992. "I thought Australian race fans had a lot more to go than this. This is bloody disgraceful. I'll keep racing but I'll tell you what, this is going to remain with me for a long time. You're a pack of arseholes."
In my honest opinion, its the lack of hard racing along with the rules and regulations. Sandown (a track I've been to many times) is under threat to build houses on it. Its been on and off with the 500km (312 mile) races over the years
I'm not from Australia or the US, but I've been a huge Supercars fan since 2008. I've watched almost every race, and Bathurst day was always reserved for The Great Race. I followed all the drivers, but things changed when the saloon shape was replaced by the Camaro and Mustang coupes. Then Holden left, and many drivers followed. The racing got boring, and the thrill was gone. I started losing interest in 2020, even in Bathurst. Ten years ago, I was sure I'd visit The Great Race one day. Now, I'm not so sure. I went to Le Mans in 2024, and it was awesome! In 2025, I'll be at the Daytona 500, so at least I'll see SVG live once in my life. But still, Supercars is dead to me, and the Toyota Supra with its pony car shape is the final nail in the coffin. RIP my old love.
The issue with Supercars is that they have stripped the Team vs. Team engineering out of it. There is no development, skirting the regulations, or reward for innovation. And yes, there are no Australian cars anymore, which also sucks. In saying this, it isn’t just a fall for Supercars, it’s a decline in Australia as a whole. You mentioned things like real estate, etc., and yeah, it's spot on. The category is soulless, as is the country. If I could leave, I would... Oh, our currency has been destroyed. Bugger.
as a freelance motorsport photographer, the one time I sought accreditation for a Supercar event was the first night race at SMP a few years back, mainly because it was something different. yes, the Supercar series is pretty bland/boring and I spent most of my time that weekend enjoying the support categories and taking a lot more photos of them than the Supercar races, a bit like watching on TV, I'll make sure I can view the supports and only watch maybe the first couple of laps of the Supercars. you are so correct re the TV commentators as everyone knows when the race becomes a bit of a procession they begin waffling on about anything almost proving they are as bored as the viewers.
I never knew Holden went out of business in 2020 until Last year. What I have learned is that it’s not Just GM Ford, Toyota and Mitsubishi all closed their assembly plants in Australia as well
This happened because there used to be import tariffs significant enough that it encouraged the OEMs to produce cars on the continent. As soon as the Australian government made it known they were going to let the tariffs elapse, GM and Ford were quick to announce they were ceasing production there and would instead import all of their cars.
Yes it was a domino effect, they relied on each other for parts, expertise etc.. When the big guys closed the others had no choice but to go, and the government weren't willing to subsidize them to keep the industry alive. So now a graveyard.
Unfortunately I think Supercars is on it's deathbed, the local cars are gone, people don't feel a connection with the gen 3 cars and our best drivers are overseas. We've seen DTM go the way of GT3 cause of costs and either Supercars will adopt NASCAR cars completely or GT3 rules in the next few years. It's a shame cause V8 Supercar racing was the best tin-top racing in the world, close action-packed racing and cars that looked on the edge at all times (WTTC cars looked slow and sounded terrible, DTM and Super GT were too planted and were basically GT cars, and NASCAR look clumsy and too big and heavy on road courses) V8's were the perfect blend of all classes.
I agree. I have attended supercars races and GT3 races and TCR races. GT3 wins by daylight followed by TCR and stone cold motherless last is supercars. I've also followed DTM and seen how they've had to evolve as they become a 3 make/2 make series. GT3/GT4 is the racing of the future.
It used to be Holden v Ford, Brock v Johnson…you were either red or blue and the rivalry was local…Australian made cars, being driven on Australian tracks and EVERYONE had a favourite driver/ team. Now it’s just American replicas (not even real Mustangs and Camaros), with no local connection…it’s essentially an American series being run here, with Americanesque hype. The only race I watch now, is Bathurst and even that holds little interest for me - it’s just something I’ve always done.
So many comments that make a lot of sense and definitely hit all the issues. Biggest thing for me was uniqueness. Commadore vs falcon was good, got more boring by the end because they got closer and closer to being the same car anyway. Back in the 90s and earlier we had heaps of cars. Cosworths, M3’s, falcons, commodores, GTRs and a few others and that’s all racing at the same time. With the new cars they are straight up kick cars with different looks and I think different sized engines but over all the same, doesn’t help the Camaro is practically none existent in Australia so it makes no sense seeing it be a flag ship car for a Aussie racing series. And yeah, no where to watch it, we used to throw it on the telly but now it only streams on 1 app or you have to pay for extra channels. Theh do their best to make it more inconvenient to watch
Supercars took too much drive ability away from Gen3, which detracts from the racing. Drivers used to be able to trim the car during the race by adjusting sway and roll bar as well as brake balance. This enables a driver to adjust the car to the track conditions on the fly, making the car more competitive. Unfortunately, now, if the car is a dog, you are stuck with it until the next pitstop where the pit crew makes the adjustment for you.
I just finished watching the whole season of WEC for free on RUclips. Some fantastic racing and lots of brands. I’d never really been interested in sports cars before. The races are long and it’s amazing that so many cars finish. Everyone loved motor racing in Australia in the 70’s and 80’s. V8 super cars lost me really when it started. It slowly got more boring over the years to the point where I even stopped watching Bathurst. Watching all the old stuff on RUclips is so good. I miss it.
Couldn't agree more - WEC is absolutely brilliant! Unlike Supercars it has different classes, different technologies, and different manufacturers coming and going, plus drivers like Valentino Rossi (massive fan here!) and for me (as a Kiwi) Earl Bamber, Brendon Hartley and a few others that I can follow. Have always loved Supercars but it needs to go back to a PROPER touring car championship with any brand welcomed, not this current American muscle snoozefest. For the first time ever I turned Bathurst off after an hour or two this year - utterly boring and predictable, too many rules, too many safety cars, no difference in the cars whatsoever, etc etc. Very sad but it needs to die so something better can take it's place.
The key issues fir me 1. Only available on pay TV. This kills any sport by limiting exposure 2. Cars have no relevance to our daily drivers any more - FFS, a camaro hasnt even been sold by GM for how many years now? 3. Rules. Too many, too anal, too many bizarre interpretations 4. Safety cars should be banned. They have turned endurance races into sprint races 5. Cost to compete is too high, limiting the number of teams 6. Safety is way OTT
I wonder if you would be so quick to scream OTT safety if someone came to your work place and started removing safety mechanisms that could potentially save your life, thus endanger your life every time you went to work.
@Spiraldeath I'm retired..... but 1. No business I've ever worked for requires a complete shut down when someone has an accident 2. Aussie touring cars did just fine without safety cars, and a lot less in-built safety than the current cars have 3. Motorsport is inherently risky - your life insurance won't cover it 4. If safety was the driving force behind "safety" cars, the whole race schedule would be held behind a safety car Mate, nanny state is way OTT. In a hundred years times, it will be illegal to leave your home due to "safety" risks. Rediculous "safety" needs to be wound back about 20 years, to get some balance into life You are welcome to wrap yourself in cotton wool, but don't make everyone else do it due to your own insecurities
@@Goodkiwibloke easy to say at the end of your life I wonder if your family would agree if they lost you to a work place accident 20 years ago. And would you be just as happy for them to start removing safety from your kids work place if it made things cheaper and faster, that is if you have kids.
@Spiraldeath Thanks for your concern, but I'm not anywhere near the end of my life - I'm only mid 50's. And yeah, I would have been quite OK with former employers removing "safety" requirements - i always thought it was dumb making employees wear safety glasses while they walk from their cars into the office. That was nothing more than butt covering inconvenience........ Just like the proliferation (plauge) of road cones that have appeared over the past 15 years - unnecessary BS
Supercars is a corporate brand. Our current racing comes from and still is the Australian Touring Car Championship. The Copoartion Supercars cars took broadcasting from free too air too pay TV. I said it was an error that will take 10 years to be noticed. All those families with children that couldn't afford pay TV. Gone....There is and has been a total and utter lack of transparency around technical data and parity and a staggering brand biased which still exists. The 888 racing team and Supercars developed the current generation however Supercars was the biggest investor of the 888 Camaro. Supercars refused to acknowledge the parity issue between Camaro and Mustang until after 2023 Bathurst ensuring a GM white wash. Supercars had that tech data for months prior to Bathurst. That was one season without parity. It took the best part of the last season for the engine adjustments to come through. 2 seasons without parity. When the first Mustsng raced and won the entire paddock screamed parity and they made 7 adjustments in one season too the Mustang and then 2 pick me ups to the Commodore. The rule book stays the vehicle with advantage must be bought back to the rest of the feild. The last two seasons adjustments as far as I know have been to the Mustang no Camaro. Every time they adjust it throws any usable data and set up out the window. They were supposed to bring Camaro back by adjusting it....I can go on and on. Supercars stopped listing to the fans 15 years ago and every time the administrator of this series ignored the fan the TV viewing audience and track spectators numbers tumbled. But this time they have really really done it. Drivers gagged teams gagged of course drivers want to race and speak their mind. Yes many would tomorrow if they could
From my position as a Australian, I simply faded away from it due to scheduling. I'm a father with a 100 other commitments but I could organise myself to keep a few hrs clear every second Sunday to turn on the TV and watch the series. Over the last few years they seem to have a race miss a month race for three weeks consecutively take 3 mths off. Anyway, I just missed more races than I saw and lost interest. It's also ridiculously formulaic. Its amazing how 20 cars qualifying within a second of each other can lead to such dull racing. Also, if I hear a commentator say how costly that crash was and wow how terrible it is two cars hit each other in a race. They look like just a bunch of bars with a plastic cover like a rc toy. They should just race those and put some sound effects on it.
I’m an Aussie who lives on the west coast, and was at the Bristol Fall Race - that one. Supercars were meant to make Gen3 much cheaper but ended up with an inferior car which costs more than the old one - I’ve spoken to some team managers when I was at the WA round who told me this. Australia doesn’t have the money in the sport to sustain high cost cars, and when the cars are awful to watch even die hard motorsport fans like me struggle to watch it week on week - I’m just not excited anymore. Combine this with there being big gaps in the schedule make it hard to know when the next race is on. I’m just not a big fan anymore - I’d rather watch NASCAR or Super GT in Japan. Cheers!
Like most things in life these days, people have become a numb. I’m 57yrs old. I thought that when I retired I’d buy the car Brocky won Bathurst in 79, that’s what it ment to me. Sadly those 70 cars are now more than a house. Cheers from Bundaberg.
SVG summed it up perfectly. The racing is boring now. They just drive around follow the leader waiting for a safety car. Look at Bathurst this year, was the most boring race all year. They have copied America way to much & now Aussies don’t relate to the series
Going to the Playoffs is a massive mistake. Iirc the main Argentinian racing series did something similar years ago. But the whole "don't look like the cars on the road" problem is something racing series will have to face. Automakers only want to make awful SUVs now. Road relevance in racing will rarely be a selling point anymore, so racing series better start putting some serious work on the on-track product. The Bathurst 1000 this year was painfully boring. They must do something about the tyres.
I would like to see if NASCAR will held an event here in Australia. At Melbourne. If that happens, I will pay a full ticket to the xfinity series race there.
I gave up on the 'V8 Supercars', after the farce in Newcastle at the end of the 2017 season. When Scott McLaughlin lost the title after the deputy chairman of the series called a time penalty on McLaughlin. Not the Race Stewards, the deputy chairman of the series.
The parity issue hasn’t helped Supercars in the last two seasons and the 2024 Bathurst race was boring because of it. I love these cars, they look and sound great and close competitive racing is what they can provide. I think something a couple of US podcasters kind of pondered made me think what could generate interest and help both NASCAR and Supercars. Two special co-driver events. One on an American road or street course in a NASCAR and one on a road or street course in Australia with an American NASCAR driver teamed up with a Supercar driver in each. No transporting of cars just drivers. With Toyota added in 2026 even more compatible.
Not just Indycar. Van Gisbergen is going to Nascar, Lawson will race at Red Bull F1, Nick Cassidy and Mitch Evans are winning a lot in Formula E. The amount of great racing drivers for such a (relatively) small country is astounding!
you do realise that dixon may live in NewZealnd now Yet was Born to Aussie Parents and Brought up In QLD?? by your standards SVG and Scott are Now Aussies??
Just a side note on Ford shut its local production and operations down in October 2016 while Toyota and Holden closed local production in October 2017 and GM finally killed the Holden brand in February 2020. As for track closures I couldn’t find an exact figure but it’s at least 30 since the 80s including some of my favourite bike tracks like Oran and Amaroo both here in NSW on the outskirts of Sydney.
I remember getting up really early to watch the start of Bathurst 500 that took most of the day, now we got Bathurst 1000 its starts at 11 it’s basically a sprint race, cars are so reliable now it becomes boring and the fact that there’s only one class, they should at least add the Dunlop series in with them, why not make things interesting again.
The touring car series was the best. I recall as a kid watching a camaro and a mini cooper duelling it out at Lakeside. Every lap the cooper overtook in the corners while the camaro got the cooper on the straight...Absolutely rivetting.
Super car drivers in Australia are becoming bored with the racing here. Our race tracks are slowly disappearing. And the cars have little in common with what we can buy today. Remember, race on Sunday sell on Monday. I think the GT3 12 hour race at Bathurst in February is way more interesting than the V8 super car.
The peak for the V8 Supercars formula is late 90's using FIA group 3A rules up to 2012 through the whole Project Blueprint era in 2013 switched to COTF era we are in now its ok but that is the first Generation car to the current Gen III fail car
Prior to 1997 it was still called the ATCC using FIA group 3A rules I'll quickly add so some of the stuff you should watch like Larry Perkins first bathurst win for his own team 93 is still ATCC but the car he is driving is the beginnings of V8 Supercars drove the Castrol VP Holden Commodore with Holden's own 308ci push rod alloy V8 he personally tunned prior to this 92 91 and going back was dominated by foreign teams and cars like Nissan's GTR really annoying local fans watching Holden getting beaten after being so dominant during the group E era of the 60's (strict production cars no tuning) then group C of the 70's in the the early 80's group C got the nick name BigBangas because of the big aero kits the cars grew and the massive engines they had
To be fair to Supercars, we had it really good for so long. The project blueprint era was (imo), the best era of the series; the championship almost always went down to the final round (the only time this didn’t happen was 2012, the final season of PB), and in most cases the final race of the series. We had so many drivers at their peaks, Lowndes, Tander, Whincup, Frosty, Davo, JC, Rick Kelly, with Todd Kelly, Ingall, Brighty, Murphy, Steve Johnson, Jason Richards, Holdsworth, Caruso, Skaife and Richo popping up here and there, plus the early beginnings of Reynolds, Coulthard and SVG. It was just such a good era, and unfortunately I don’t know how any other era can compete with that. Now, I know the cars are a big downside for a lot of people. And I get it. The series has been built on the Red v Blue, Holden v Ford rivalry. And when we lost Holden, they tried to keep that rivalry going, instead of just trying to rebuild and re-establish itself. For me, the cars not being Australian aren’t as big of an issue if the racing is good, and unfortunately the racing hasn’t been great. Now, Townsville and Adelaide have proven that the series is capable of good racing but it’s few and far between. The tyre issue is due to the fact that the cars are still using tyres from the gen2 cars, which are fundamentally different design philosophies to gen3. The cars should be getting new tyres for next year, so hopefully that can improve the racing. Perhaps the biggest issue is that the series is marketed poorly. As someone else mentioned, it has to compete with the NRL and AFL, both of which have a stranglehold on the Australian sporting scene (the Townsville weekend coincided when the Cowboys NRL game, which I believe is a first since the Townsville circuit was added). Again, when Supercars first started, it had great marketing under Tony Cochrane (which is when the sport changed its name from the Australian Touring Car Championship to V8 Supercars), but now it’s lost that. Hopefully a new team can come in and revitalise it
There's a host of reasons for the slow, death spiral of top-line touring car racing in Australia. One is the demographic, market relevance another as others have posted, for better or worse car culture in Australia is not what it was in past decades. There is massive competition for the viewing spectator dollar from stick and ball sports and they will always be king in this country. Going behind a paywall was a massive mistake, I can afford it but others for reasons both philosophical and economic won't pay to watch. Supercars as a motorsport spectacle is truly a niche market, it has little appeal for motorsports enthusiasts like me who follow the sport at all levels from my local hillclimb to club and some national series (other than SC) at permanent tracks here in Qld and the east coast. I've followed motorsports in this country since the mid-70s and until the change of rules in '93 there was pretty much a brand or model for everyone to follow but the big capacity hero cars still ruled and that was fine and the stuff of legends. When the Ford/Holden thing became the only show in town that alienated an entire cohort who either left completely or only engaged casually. Supercars are big and fast and they deserve big, fast circuits. But they don't go to Phillip Island and are only returning to Queensland Raceway this next year but continue to go to single lane goat tracks like Symmons Plains and Barbagello. Why anyone would want them to return to Winton escapes me. Any circuit with a sub- 1 minute lap (or thereabouts) shouldn't be hosting a round. It makes for exceptionally boring, technical racing unless you are just there to see the carnage. Then there are the street tracks. With the exception of Adelaide and Albert Park I struggle to think of one street track that actually promotes good racing, lots of crashes but not a lot of good racing. Hamilton, Canberra, and Newcastle spring to mind as abject failures in terms of racing spectacle. The shortened Gold Coast is just a incident-ridden "jet fighters in a gymnasium" crash-fest. All of that said I have no desire to see the series fail, for better or worse it is the pinnacle of motorsport in Australia but I can see why drivers are looking elsewhere to make a very good living out of the sport they love.
I watched Bathurst in the 70's through to recent times and I personally loved watching the large and small cars fighting it out in the 70's as well as in the more recent Bathurst 24 hour production car races of the 90's minus the literal supercars, remember the RX8's vs WRX's s EVO's vs Suzuki Swifts vs Commodores, Falcons, Camry's ect ect... even a Volvo Wagon... Bring that back with the cars we can actually buy. The modern standardised oversized go karts of late which only differences are basically cosmetic and badges hold no relevance to myself or the average Australian motorist that I know unlike the racing of yesteryear. Even the Motorcycle engined "Aussie Racing Car" Series or ute category is way more entertaining than modern V8 Supercars.
I think you nailed it on the head, I just think the reason the cars are not relatable to Australians is the AU-made Falcon and Commodore were less than half the price of remanufactured Mustangs and Camaros we have now, making the vehicles less attainable for fans.
I couldn't agree more with the anonymous users comment. The soul of V8 Supercars was Ford Vs Holden and a link (if somewhat distant) between the Aussie made Ford's and Holden's that you could buy and drive. For the fans your either Ford or Holden and that friendly rivalry extended to the backyard BBq. With the demise of Holden and the Aussie made Ford Falcon waning interest in V8 Supercars was inevitable. Organizers believed moving towards the Nascar style might work here but for me at least the magic has gone.
As an Australian and Motorsport photographer, the sports gone down in my eyes as some of the traditional tracks like Phillip island or Winton ain’t on the calendar anymore. It’s sad to see but maybe it’s like a hosting fee and they think it’s not worthwhile. But yet Winton attracts a lot of fans as it’s a country town race. I think it’s more money and mangers.
Winton is my local track and I honestly think they ruined the character of it with the extension. It was never intended to be a large scale circuit and it is pretty obvious the extension was only added to increase the length and allow for two longer straights to facilitate overtaking opportunities into the two braking areas. But I always liked what is now simply the "club" circuit. It is a great technical track too (the club circuit) and I have always maintained that if you can set a car up from scratch to work well at Winton then you have the skills to set a car up anywhere.
I gotta say, well done you. Thank you for getting things right. All to often people comment on things from a place of ignorance. You mentioned iconic tracks being closed to make room for housing developments and you show a picture of Oran park. Oran park was a fantastic drivers circuit, I raced there many many time and now it's all gone to make way for another poxy suburb.
I’ve been going to Bathurst since 1978…. Bathurst 2024 was the first time I didn’t watch it at all. It’s become the most boring race in the world. Bring back the halcyon days of 63 cars on the starting grid, mixed classes, and privateers.
The quote you presented is spot-on. Commodore vs Falcon rivalry was the lifeblood of this sport and with both of them gone, there is no fire, no passion. They killed off local manufacturing so the series just isn’t relevant anymore. It is a sad state of affairs. I miss the old days.
Along with Daniel Riccardo possibly joining the series from F1. This is very likely because he doesn't seem to want to return to the F1 grid & there is little to no interest from teams to bring him in.
@@chrisguardiano6143 Pfft, it's not even remotely likely that Danny Ric will be in Supercars. If he does want to race on he'll take the "open chequebook" offer from Toyota and race in WEC. Personally, I think we'll find hm in the media
He's moving to Margaret River to smoke cones and drink the local Vino. A Bathurst run may appeal to him, but he'll probably just stay home and keep rooting Heidi Berger. I know I would.
Another Aussie here: I watched V8 Supercars from day 1, religiously. But I lost interest in 2019. There are a number of factors, the cars have been technically handicapped to the point where the drivers can’t even adjust their own anti-rollbars anymore. The move to become a spec series just sucks. You used to have great teams building and tuning their own engines and designing their own parts, now it’s all spec parts and technically uninteresting. The tire situation has gotten worse with hardly any sets per weekend and no freedom for the teams to really try counter strategies. The cars have gotten fragile too, and at the same time the rules have become overzealous, to the point were there’s no door banging racing any more. It was never ok to punt others off, but drivers would definitely subscribe to “rubbing is racing “. And to top it off, our local car industry is dead. It used to be Ford Falcon vs Holden Commodore, and average punters could afford to go buy one. But Mustangs and Camaros are just not affordable here.
Nascar has more money, more fame, way less toxic. You can build a long career running in the top 20 as opposed to Europe and the Asia Pacific region, which require results in a relativity consistent nature. There is also more racing. it's a little easier to get around with private jets, etc. Something and somewhere different, America is a fun place despite all its problems, you can basically live the way you want and it has a huge motorsport community. Australian racing looks like the USA on the outside, but teams have a European management style. Top teams actually have quite a toxic atmosphere, where low employee numbers work long hours to make up the difference. Race weekends in Supercar are demanding, with a number of races cramed in around non-stop media appearances and mandatory signings, with no downtime to focus and enjoy the competition aspect. Some of the tracks facilities are wanting. The rules of engagement are strict like open wheel racing, which takes away the fun, and teams seem reluctant to growth due to cost. On the other hand, there is a reason why a lot of drivers dont go. History shows that a move overseas is a risk for drivers. We've seen the likes of Montoya, Hornish and Ambrose, top thier own series, make the switch to struggle immensely. Their is also a fact no one talks about but living in the USA on a visa as opposed to Europe and Japan leaves you at the mercy of the system and we saw that with james McFadden this year who was not permitted to enter before the atart of the high limit season. There is also tax issues. Nascar is also for a certain type of person, one who lives to race, as the time for anything else is limited. And we saw that with whincup, who wants to stay in Australia, where he could play on his boats and hang with mates on the many off weekends, to break away from the world of racing. Remember, scott maclughin is married to a US citizen which makes it a bit easier but some may struggle with intergeneration. We heard marcus talk aboit how hard it was for his young family in the USA, which detracted away from his own enjoyment. For Australians and kiwis the US is a ton of fun until you need to live a normal socially supported life, like in the commonwealth countries amd Europe. From my personal experience in the USA, things like private health insurance, sales tax, ownership tax, doing your own tax even, tipping plus finding food that was not processed, finding cheap restaurants that made good home style food, taxis when drinking because there was no metro or safe night transport, was very difficult for me to adjust to, and now living in Europe, its basically the same standard I had in Japan and Australia. supercars is more legitimate. One thing you cannot criticise the series for is being entertaining for the sake of it. I believe a sucessful supercar career is just as gratifying and any nascar career. The series is better presented as well, more in line with FIA rules which makes the easier and more realistic jumps to international GT and sportscar races easier. Oval racing is not for everyone, despite Australia being the second biggest competitors in oval competition, all of it is on dirt, and not many of the current drivers take up the sprint car or super sedan (late model) prefering to go drive sports cars overseas or TCR or whatever. For sure the best drvier for nascar in Australia for NASCAR is Cam Waters, even Van Gisbergan admits it, so if there is no way for him to get over then there is no point for the others to try. I think had shane not won in Chicago, he would still be in supercars. So, actually, none of these drivers are leaving supercars yet. Both brown and kostecki atate they only want to play on the road courses when they get a change and waters has little support to get him over there.
NASCAR way less toxic. Right, I take it you haven't followed the charter drama this year and the disgraceful way that management have handled themselves. Even Rick Hendrick said the only reason he agreed to sign it was because he was tired of the arguing and general toxicity of NASCAR management
@mattcecil6692 not NASCAR itself. That's a corrupt organisation, and one of the issues when the promoter also writes the rule book. I meant the teams and crew members. Compared to F1 and WEC teams, which are cut throat. They will tolerate running 20th place for a lot longer than any non nascar team.
For me, there are a few reasons. 1. It's the cars, they're not relatable. I preferred Touring Car Masters, but they seem to have ended that. 2. You can't watch it, they don't air it on regular TV unless it's Bathurst and you can't watch it online unless someone happens to be streaming it, which only happens for Bathurst. 3. When it comes to the track stuff you talked about, what's happening with Laguna Seca is the norm here. 4. The racing just isn't as entertaining as it was in the 2000s. I'm not talking about crashes either, I'm talking about tense battles and thrilling overtakes. It's kinda like how F1 in recent years isn't as interesting as it once was despite the 2024 season. ATCC became V8 Supercars and I think it's about time to change formula again to better represent cars that actually sell over here for reasonable money. Camaros are damn expensive over here so it's only really the Mustang that's at a similar price point to the Commodore SS and Falcon XR8 we used to be racing. Call me crazy, but I think a hot hatch series would be entertaining and follows one of the trends vehicle purchases made over the past 10 years when people were downsizing to smaller cars (let us not race SUVs, I beg of you), so seeing Hyundai i30 Ns and VW Golf TDIs battling it out would bring some spice back into the series
I think if Daniel Riccardo heads to Supercars it will revive interest mainly because of how popular he is. This is very likely given how uninterested Riccardo is in returning to F1 & how there is little interest from teams to bring him in.
He is 35 years old and has made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in F1 ( the last reported salary was $15 million in 2022). He doesn't need the money and why would he start over in a sedan series WHEN HIS ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN IN KARTS AND OPEN WHEEL CARS?
Our race format used to be Holden vs Ford, it was in our DNA. Growing up, you were one or the other. They used to say “win on Sunday, buy on Monday”. That’s because you could go to a local Holden or Ford dealer and buy the same car that was racing on the weekend. Then it changed when local manufacturing closed its doors. The race cars looked nothing like road cars. Racing was only showed on pat tv, except Bathurst. The cars looked more and more like NASCAR’s. Sadly the sport lost its identity, and nobody cares about the fans anymore. Unfortunately, it’s all about money.
Aussie touring car fan for the last 40 yrs. Problems with series? Loss of best drivers, too few rounds, irrelevance of the cars. Car models come to the series to die e.g. Nissan altima, ford falcon, Holden commodore, Chev Camaro and Toyota Supra. The last one will be dead in Oz even before it lines up on the grid for its first race in the series. No easy fix.
The peak of Aussie supercars was in the mid 90s. Just Aussie built Holden's and fords. The cars were more raw. And so were the drivers. Now with all the new cars they just seem to blend into each other. It's like the more technology that goes into them the more boring they get.
Back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s Australian Motorsport was all about watching Ford, Holden and for a while Chrysler fighting it out in the locally produced muscle cars. In the 80s we switched to international group A and the crowds died off. In 93 we went to the V8 supercars and the crowds returned. However in the last couple of years with the latest generation of cars the locally made content wasnt there, people lost interest as the hard quality racing waned, iconic tracks disappeared, there was less and less race weekends and legendary drivers retired or left. The playoff style series will be the nail in the coffin. Even if Nascar has similiar issues, at least the racings hard and theres plenty of it. Also I honestly think the car culture in Australia has died down. When I was younger, youd go into the city on a Friday or Saturday night and see iconic cars cruising nose to tail. You just dont see that anymore. Kids dont grow up frothing about cars like they used to.
Australian V8 Supercars started with a car the general public in Australia could buy from the local car dealership & turn them into a racing car. I remember the show called V8 extra with them going to Larry Perkins workshop with him showing the progress of building a new racecar for Bathurst with him buying a new Holden Commodore shell from Holden. The inner wheel tubs were removed with his own built tubs to accommodate the fat racing wheels fitted, heat shields removed & a roll cage installed. Then his modified 5 litre Aussie Holden V8, drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. fitted. As the Holden Commodore & Ford Falcons models changed getting bigger, they no longer fitted in the regulation spec's so the teams would buy the panels from the factories, cut & shutting them to fit around a pre-built chassis/ roll cage. Later they just became fibreglass or carbinfibre penals. We lost the Bridgestone vs Dunlop vs Goodyear vs Yokohama war, we lost the fuel & oil war, we lost the Team Engineering war, driver war & now we lost the Aussie Holden vs Ford war. We went from road cars turned into racecars that go quick to Racingcar that look like over priced sports road cars. They all use the same tyres, fuel, aero chassis/rollcage, steering, suspension & brakes. The cars are boring, the drivers can't pass in a turn unless they're passed the B pillar bullshit. Nothing better them elbows out in tiptop racing. I've stopped watching the Aussie V8 Supercars because they're not Aussie cars, they're boring & unlike an Aussie road car that's made to go quick for racing now they are just a slow racecar that's no quicker. I now follow F1 but sadly it has no tyre wars & fuel wars, but it still has engineering & driver wars. R.I.P Holden & V8 Supercars.
This is a spot on video. Instead of 55 cars on the grid at Bathurst, we get 26 cars that are the same under the skin. Some idiot wanted to dump a Ford engine into Camaros! We need to go back to something similar to Group C/A using real cars instead of fake rolling chassis. Our 12 hour with real expensive cars is much more exciting. Unfortunately, money talks these days with the TV networks paying huge dollars for shit racing. Being a motorsport fan over 50 years, and ex-club driver, I just think our current crop of drivers are too entitled and do not necessarily have the ability of our star drivers of yesteryear. Oh, and mandatory pitstops are bullshit and put strategy in the bin.
Holden and Ford is an Aussie Motorsport thing (The Red Vs Team Blue), In my time off following the Races (1993 to Current) We have lost at least 2 Race tracks to Housing and Lakeside Raceway was replaced by Queensland Raceway in the Early 2000s there Streets have in But Covid have put the Brake on series and think Supercars are going died out but hope not. Full-year racing for the championship and if you get round of two early So be it. The health of Supercars is Bad going to fall
A number of issues have occurred for me as to why I don’t get into the V8 Supercars like I used to. 1. Cars don’t have every day relevance like they used to (Win on Sunday sell on Monday) 2. Not free to air (pay to play) 3. Rules that hamstring the entertainment. In the Kmart racing days it was lively and fun of energy. I almost went to every round on the calendar except Darwin and Tasmania. Now, I am lucky to watch a highlights reel.
I've been watching supercars less and less over the years and these gen 3 cars have made it unwatchable. But as a New Zealander seeing our guys in top teams in nascar/indy/f1/WEC it's more than enough to compensate for V8's fall off.
When the car stopped being based on road cars, it changed the scene and from there it’s definitely more boring, I only watch Bathurst now where as before I would watch the Supercars whenever it was on TV.
I was a Ford Fan as a kid ,, got up 7am to watch Bathurst every year ,, Sierras ,, GTHOs etc ,,, but when Holden Dealer team went ,, so did the interest ,,, what is the point now ?
I want to watch racing cars that are the pinnacle of their engineering. Not the same car with a mildly different outer shell. I'll take GT's, TCR and Trans-Am any day over the Supercars.
I think part of it is that there is a large fan base for Nascar here, and many drivers would have watched the races and looked up to drivers in Nascar. You only have to look at Daniel Ricciardo taking the number 3 in F1 because Dale Snr was his motor racing hero. Then there's the fact that the oval racing would present a whole new challenge, and there's much more money to be made as a driver. Although, possibly the move Marcos Ambrose made all those years ago opened doors and showed it was much easier to go and race Nascar that it had been in the past. An Aussie legend Dick Johnson had a red hot go in the 90's (i think) and didn't do very well considering his success in Australia, and that may have halted the idea for many that had aspirations for entering the Nascar field around that time. So, i actually think Marco's move helped make it a not so daunting task with contacts, Australian based backing, and most importantly, a general acceptance of drivers from Australia and New Zealand.
Yes, Supercars is dying rather rapidly. Not much shown on free to air, except crap highlights after midnight. No local cars made anymore. All imported, boring circuits that offer up no thrill joys to watch. It's just lap after lap. Sadly miss the TRUE days of Ford V Holden....
It seems to me in many countries that except for the top level football and bat and ball sports (and probably basketball in the US) other sports struggle to keep or build large fan bases because there is so much competition of a wide variety of sports and other pastimes as well. A basic reality is broadcasters and streaming services are willing to pay huge premiums for the top level sports they know will deliver an audience. This, of course, leaves a lot of other sports fighting over a smaller pie. In motor sports there are marquee events like the Indy 500 and Daytona 500, and in Australia the Bathurst 1000, that attract a lot of casual viewers that might not follow the racing series over a full season, so these events are very attractive to broadcasters. I believe Supercars think that they can leverage interest in Bathurst into the final 3 races of the year (two of which are live on free-to-air) by introducing the 'finals' format to maintain the interest of a number of these casual Bathurst viewers, especially as the seasons of the 2 football codes are over and cricket season has yet to crank up. If that is the theory, I think it is completely misguided. I find it hard to believe anyone who follows the whole series thinks the 'finals' idea has any merit. To demonstrate how ridiculous it is, theoretically a driver could win every race going into the 'final' and have an engine failure or trip over a backmarker and not be series champion. Ludicrous. No credibility whatsoever.
When I first heard the finals idea floated, I thought the top 6 or 10 drivers from the previous year could just draw straws in February, declare a winner and save all the wear and tear and money from running the cars.
Hi mate , as an Aussie I can tell you the reason V8 Supercars is failing here now is because nobody cares since there is no longer Ford and Holden Rivalry. I grew up watching Peter Brock and Moffat’s brilliance and Mark Scaife’s amazing driving too. Ever since Ford and Holden left Australia I haven’t even bothered to even care about watching V8 Supercars ever again. The wizardry these guys could do on a track without all the modern day gimmickry in cars now was just astounding. We can never get those pure racing days back. Brock was the Aussie version of Ayrton Senna and just pure racing on a level nobody else could really compete with since the days of Stirling Moss and Brabham.
"Supercars" are irrelevant to Australians. It's that simple. There are NO local manufacturers. Zero reason for Australians to watch. Bathurst of the 1970's had a huge audience. Wonder why?
Audience in 1970s alone is way higher than V8 Supercar audiences in 2024.
@@purwantiallan5089I doubt school kids fight over who’s the best these days, like I did?
These Corrupt governments have stuffed Australia!!! Obama does not like Car Racing???
And GT3 cars lap faster. They're slow by comparison, highly homogulated, and it's a 2 badge (not car) series. They need to get some variety in there - that's what made Bathurst so good.
Well, there is one reason only for Aussies to go to boring nascar, MONEY! They can make a lot more money, and it doesn't require the same level of skill to drive around in circles!
But here's the BIG problem, since the demise of the Holden V Ford rivalry V8 slushcars has deteriorated markedly. Aussies aren't interested in Yank Tanks. What needs to happen is they need to change the name back to Touring Cars, Get Toyota, Nissan, BMW, etc involved. Only allow homologation of vehicles actually sold in numbers in Aus to compete, as used to be. Take it back to a home competition, keep the Sepos out, everything they touch they F up! It's like having shit Septic Tank groups perform at the Grand Final. Aussies are there for the Footy, not some overhyped Sepo bullshit! Yanks go on about Ads, bloody Ads at their halftime wankfest!
This is why Supercars are done, and they will go into obscurity sadly, even with the legacy of some of the worlds greatest drivers like Brocky and Dick Johnson.
stop watching v8 supercars when Australian cars left the series
Agreed
You could say they left long before Holden did. The last Supercars Holden always looked exactly like the Opel Insignia. (Bonus for Euro people: Just change the badge and you have imported a Holden to the EU!)
It literally was imported from Germany. The last actual Commodore rolled off production in 2017 😢
Same boring cars now
If you were an actual motorsport fan then you'd still be watching regardless of the make. You are missing out on a great series if you think it's because an Australian manufacturer isn't represented. Also the ownership hasn't been Australian for decades.
My reason for loosing interest is that most of the races are not on "free to air" tv anymore... they show a 1hr "highlights" package at 1am in the morning.
They then sometimes show the same highlights at 2pm on the monday after the race weekend, you know, when people are at work...
In these times of financial hardship, not everyone can afford kayo/foxtel etc. this includes the base core of followers on lower incomes.
This killed it for me too. Stopped watching when it went to pay tv in NZ. Tried to get back into it about a year ago but my enthusiasm for the series is dead.
This killed Supercars, which wasn't a huge passion of mine, along with any chance of following Cricket. The budget is tight in many households, and paying for TV sport can be one of the first things to go.
Totally agree!
Exactly.
Totally agree. I used to be a massive Supercar fan but since the move to pay TV I've lost interest. TBH, the British Touring Car Championships and the various TCR championships have far better racing.
I'm involved in the industry in other categories. I still have very old racing and officials licenses. I hear the chat and rumours from Supercars personally and on the grapevine:
1. The tyres are rubbish (as SVG alluded to) but no one will publicly say it because bad tires work better than no tyres. Australia motorsport is a small market for them, so that company's spec tyres, no matter what category, have never been well received generally. Add in they're big heavy awkward cars and you're in tyre conservation mode right from the parade lap. It doesn't help the racing.
2. Gen3 is a spec kit series with a choice of standard bodywork and standard engine. There is no real room for innovation or engineering excellence. The quest for parity has taken away any gains. The cars are all the same under the skin, in the engine shop and in the wind tunnel, and that means boredom. HOWEVER, Aussie Racing Cars are a spec series with a spec engine and choice of bodywork and they do mighty fine because as in all lower categories (e.g. Porsches) there's still a spread of talent that lets people shine.
3. Supercars is up against the two main football codes for much of their season, who soak up most of the national sponsorship dollar, air time and media interest pools. FFS Oscar Piastri hardly gets a mention!
4. Historically the series, going all the way back to the Group N days, had some sort of visual relevance. They went from cars you could buy in the showroom to cars like you could buy in the showroom to they look like cars you can buy in the showroom to caricatures of cars you might see on the road. Now I can't even see them in the car dealerships. And Toyota coming on board is ambitious to say the least- I don't know how relevant a Supra is.
5. Motorsport generally: the media isn't helping by restricting access and when they do they concentrate on one or two categories. There's little in the way of feeder interest for spectators or sponsors/partners. It's only the top category and as that's gotten boring, interest in motorsport generally is waning.
6. Which means tracks are getting fewer. In the time I've raced, we've lost Amaroo, Oran Park, Wakefield Park, and Homebush and Newcastle street circuits in the general Sydney area alone. SMS has issues too. Then there's Calder, Lakeside, AIR. Wanneroo has issues. Property is worth more as houses. OTOH FIA circuit licensing requirements these days mean that the older tracks probably wouldn't qualify to hold a supercars race. Fun fact: Bathurst's license doesn't qualify for F1 (or S5000 open wheelers...) and to bring it up to that license standard would take away what makes it Bathurst.
7. Supercars management and Motorsport Australia are both locked into a path and know best. Ask them. They'll tell you. We think they're getting very stale, because-
One thing is common across all the major sports in Australia- when they look for entertainment for half time at the football finals, or the gigs after say Surfers Paradise Supercars, it's clear someone threw a dart into their dusty 80s and 90s CD collection, and said "Book 'em". There's no connection with what the spectators and public want TODAY
Someone asked why S5000 were at Bathurst a couple of years ago. They had a special dispensation once they were detuned to get below the power/weight limit of the circuit license. It's also a reason why Supercars control the engines - imagine if they couldn't race at Bathurst because the power/weight ratios exceeded the license...
Here's the Wiki on circuit licensing. You really don't want to read FIA Appendix O...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_racing_circuits_by_FIA_grade
Best comment here, thank you! We struggling, here in NZ too. Mind you, Lawson has been all over the news, we'll see for how long. For me, at the moment, I prefer watching the Improved Production Series, relevant cars and the completion is awesome. Yes OK was originally Jordan Cox that drew me in but loving the show!
It's the natural progression of things when corporate interests take over the running, not just the support of motor racing. Good things always decline and fall when profit is the only driving force. And they never get it til it's too late.
I agree,my go to is mainland muscle,love the rawness of it.@@boatymcboatface666
I agree with 2-7. As for #1 - as someone who hasn't read too much into the complaints of SVG, and without any personal interest - motorsport would be far more entertaining if the tire sucked but *were* consistent... marbles get in the way of passing, and if the desire of parity is that the best drivers rise to the top, then the best drivers will need to adapt to the tire and they'll do well with the extended offset of their performance against the less competent drivers.
Demographically, I'd bet the owners of 80s CD collections now have the most disposable income... It might not be doing them any favours long term but they might know what they're doing for today. A bit of a tangent: lots of blokes are ripping AFLW (because it really does suck as a product) but as far as the long term viability of a niche sport, the AFL might know what they're doing.
More than anything, the sport lacks the star power it once had. I remember the old hand going for #10... the heroes and villians were in half a dozen teams... Skaiffe and Lowndes at HRT and the hero LP using all the cunning as a privateer. There's no way to get that back. The sport has strived for parity so anyone who puts a car on the road can win, but the fans have to have an appreciation of that... You can't rewind the clock.
As an Australian I go to Bathurst for the GT3 12 hour race every year. I love watching the Mussle Car masters - older cars that are actually recognisable . I haven't watched the Supercars for years - too boring.
So have to agree with you, 45 years following Australian V8's and its simply so boring, it's rubbish
@@powderskier55472023 and 2024 Bathurst 1000 also truly shows to be the WORST EVER BATHURST 1000.
Follow the leader!!! we can watch that at rush hour for free!!!
@@marcusweeding5233 No so called Ozy cars now, could GT4 be more interesting?
Yip me too. I'm going again this year too.
GT racing way better than V8 supercars with all the variety
never thought they could regulate the soul and greatness out of Bathurst, then 2024 snoozefest happened. So sad.
2023 was a snoozefest aswell. Just 161 laps of follow the leader. Debating whether its worth my money nd time to even go next year.
I spoke to a Ford crew member from one of the big teams barely an hr into the race and he said they didn't have the race pace and were basically waiting for a safety car or other issues to bring life to the race. Barely one hour in and that was the feeling
Tell me about it!, & 2023 wasn't much better.
@@mikekruger2946 Sounds like Monaco F1 lol.
The only reason that place is still on the F1 map is because of history; maybe when the smaller 2026 cars roll around we'll see some overtaking.
@tulmar4548 - I could not agree more!!! The last couple of years since switching to Gen 3 have been AWFUL. Until they change the format and bring back proper touring cars (as we had in the 90's) I refuse watch it any more or go to races. I totally love the GT3 endurance race at Bathurst (I go every year) but Supercars is just totally irrelevant now - we need cars that Aussies (and Kiwis since there are 1 or two rounds there every year) actually drive not American muscle that hardly anyone here drives or can afford.
I used to watch V8 supercars religiously every weekend they were on... especially the Bathurst 1000 !
Now it's almost predictable!
I barely even watch the Bathurst 1000.
It's a shame that we here in Australia don't have our car industry anymore.
Being 59 years old I've seen the good ole days dissapear.
😢
Me too mate. I grew up watching Aussie Touring Cars and Bathurst and now I don’t even watch unless there’s nothing else on and it’s Bathurst. The cars suck, the drivers suck, the commentary sucks. It all sucks.
@@mintoxace5571
I remember watching the big GT's and GTS MONARO'S round up the little mini coopers on the straights and then those little bricks with their wheels on backwards to get a wider track would take the V8's in the corners.
Bloody good ole days for sure.
What won on Sunday sold on monday was the saying !
way back in the day a lot cars were driven home afterwards
Australian political puppets must believe it's progress to have LESS manufacturing in your own country and more dependant on manufacturing from other countries... like China, Taiwan, Bangladesh... Anywhere but the 'lucky' country!
I’ve stopped watching V8 Supercars a few years ago. Their rules have just become ridiculous and Mark Skaife has way too much say and his views are not healthy for the sport. With a relatively small population for the size if the country it is not economically viable to run every weekend. Plus the racing is boring.
Mark Skaife was/is so in love with Jamie Whincup... You could hear him drool EVERY time he spoke about him. It made for boring commentary, especially since he reckons Whincup NEVER did anything wrong...
@@jmilne5751Crompton and Skaife basically flirting towards Lowndes and Whincup since 2012.
Boring is not enough, soporific!!!
Not a level playing field
@@TomMetcalf-r6c As long as they let the big teams spend the most money to produce the best car & win championships, then it's gonna die pretty quickly...
Remember Brocky in 1979, A9X led by six laps and then broke the lap record on the last lap, now that was racing.
and not stupid safety cars to bunch them up all the time
That was the peak of Bathurst
Horseshit if one of the cars on track won now by 6 laps the fans would be up in arms crying parity......
@@Spiraldeath Check the facts this was Bathurst 1979 and is in the records
@@MikeMatthews-y7w I know it happened I am saying it's bullshit that it was better racing, fans think that's what they want because of nostalgia but it's really not what they want they just want to be angry and whine like little kids, if a car won by 6 laps at Bathurst now the fans would riot.
I'm an Aussie who started to lose interest in local racing when we went to a V8 formula to begin with from 1994 (we went exclusively V8s from 1994 - in 1993 we still allowed the BMW E30 EVOs to race and there was also a 2 litre class but it was principally V8s). Prior to 1993 the racing allowed for incredible variety of vehicles and they absolutely had to be heavily based on the road car equivalents. You could say that they were extensively modified homologated road cars rather than race cars based of the imaginings of a road car. 1985 to 1987 were arguably the best years because unlike the Sierra years and Nissan GTR years, you never had any idea of what car would win - it often came down to setup and tyre nuances and the weather favouring one particular car and driver over the rest. I did "put up" with the later V8 racing for a few years but the first few years of V8 racing was actually pretty good despite the lack of variety. But once the good guard retired, we were effectively left with a sanitised sport with drivers who really did not have personalities like the old guard did. By the time we went to spaceframes when the whole thing was completely fake (relative to road cars) apart from badges and mirrors, I had had enough. I stopped watching and have not watched it for over 26 years. I do not miss it either. But I sure miss the old days. It certainly did not help either that the sport went to Pay TV and become expensive to watch even during the good financial times. In the current economy, it would be the first thing I'd be ditching even if I was still a fan.
I basically only recently, in 2024 that i lose interest on watching V8 Supercars Championship.
Group A was wonderful from 85-86, then in 87 the woefully inadequate turbo factor reared its head, completely made a mockery by the RS500, and even when they bumped it from 1.4 to 1.7 in 88 it was still a turbo fest. They could have fixed it by restricting the turbos to their road going boost, but sadly they didnt
nailed it
The old V8 engines in the Holdens and Fords were completely outdated and they were the cars most spectators wanted to see at the time so the marketing took over, push V8 racing, Australians have a love affair with V8s and Holden and Ford, it wasn’t good for the image to beaten on the track by a 4 or 6 cylinder import car.
When motoring gods like Brock and Moffat start racing imported cars, it was the end of civilisation as we knew it.
@@whitedrguy6503 the Group 3A formula that became V8 Supercars was the brainchild of Channel 7 Sports Commentator Mike Raymond
Not having anything actually made in Australia. The whole Supercar platform was built around locally produced cars whether they be Holden or Ford. Whilst other manufacturers competed in the class they were seen as guests to the main show Holden vs Ford. Certain versions of the race cars were sold in small qualifying numbers to the public (around 200). It's now all American connection no Australian connection and people have left, including longtime die-hard fans.
it has no real market purpose either. used to be who was winning was the car you bought. you cannot even buy new cameros in Australia anymore
People stopped buying Australian cars 25 years ago. Sales figures prove it. Maybe if the Australian people supported Australian brands, Australia would still have them. But no, this country doesn’t like accountability and therefore will never learn
@@HarrisonCarter-b5nwin on Sunday sell on Monday hasn’t been a thing for decades now anywhere in the world. There are production car classes but you are not watching that.
@@HarrisonCarter-b5n and you wont even be able to buy a camaro in the US after 2024
@@joshiek7839 its what supercars was built on. that's why its fallen off. buy a holden if they win buy a ford if they win. now its just buy a ford.
I'm 64 so I remember watching the Hardie Ferodo Bathurst 500 (I think it was originally 500 miles) and watched it's slow descent into boredom over the past few years. For me, the 'Jump the Shark' moment was Dave Reynolds getting the biggest CAMS fine of $25,000 for an off-colour joke about the Harvey Norman Super Girls team - who crashed out on lap 8 after hitting an oil patch that everyone else avoided. It told me the management was more interested in appealing to the ABC's Q&A panel than being reasonable. A warning to 'keep it civil' would have done.
100% 👍
Absolutely. The DEI and political correctness has pushed the target market away and not attracted any progressives. Touring cars, Group C and even Group A were the good days. The V8 Holden/Ford Supercars has been a dead end where we've ended up with a sanitary/boring Chev vs Mustang. Add to that nothing much on the market in new cars to form a series. Plus teenagers want drifting, destruction/crashes (because they are generally lacking repsonsiblity) and turbo blow off sounds.
and then half of the girls super car team end up on Only Fans…his comment was kind of prophetic!😂
I can't say I was overly impressed with Reynolds remarks - that's the type of thing that might be said after the cameras are turned off. However when one half of that girl's team went to a much more colourful profession any sympathy I had for them went out the window.
@@jonathanparle8429 Yes - Renee Gracie. She seems rather optimistic about how profitable her new line is too.
I used to LOVE the Australian Touring Car Championship before it became "Supercars" Watching Ford Sierras and Nissan GTR's go against the mighty Holder Commodore was a thing to behold. My Uncle had a group "A" Commodore and it was super close to what raced. Still have a commodore but nothing remotely like it takes part in this new series.
Wish we had R35GTR joining V8 Supercars.
The biggest thing from my perspective is the lack of characters,the drivers now have all the appeal of valium spiked accountants
Gotta be PC; can't call the crowd a pack of a-holes anymore.
agreed
Yep, most enjoyable times was when the Officials tried to slap Larry Perkins with the rule book, time and time again. And yet, he'd end up beating and embarrassing more often than not because he had a better grasp of the rules and regulations than they did themselves. Still to this day they stuff it up.
Supercars Australia really fucked themselves and the fans when they went to a subscription tv format a few years ago. A lot of us grew up watching free to air and for a long while it was protected, but it's slowly been gutted to send everything except a couple of enduros to pay tv. That's cost them an enormous number of fans and viewers who, since they no longer can watch every race, become disconnected from the series and rapidly lose interest. I hope to watch the slow demise of supercars, as that will be entirely brought upon themselves by greed and ignoring the fans.
As a Holden enthusiast, I stopped watching it with the demise of Holden, but I was loosing interest for the previous 10 years.
Australian sedan racing was traditionally based around 'Touring Cars'. Standard, or modified road cars that were capable of touring Australia's often horrendous rural roads. The grand tourers GT badge was earnt. Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday. The cars had relevance to what you could buy at the dealership.
In the mid 90s, they started a new formula (called 'V8 Supercars') that allowed many more freedoms. By 2000 the teams were assembling their own bodyshells, 2007 started the move away from factory panels. Now the cars had zero relevance to the cars we could buy.
Holden died a slow, lingering death, and the new cars are bloody ugly. The way they paint them, they all look the same. Mustangs and Camaros look very similar, until your eyes can focus on a tail light or grill badge. THEY DON'T PUT NUMBERS ON THE SIDES OF THE CARS. They put a little yellow, 6 inch high sticker on the rear side window, so it's hard to keep track.
They own the production company that films the events, and the main commentators have stakes in the operation.
That'll do. I now have zero interest. Anything before about 95 is cool, But it's down hill after that.
Yes. I think I could say that 95 to 96 were just about the last years where I still followed it with any serious intent but for me the best years were the Group C and Group A days (though admittedly I think the Group A rule makers got it very badly wrong by neglecting to ban 4 wheel drive before any manufacturer even put anything on the drawing board plus the turbo equivalency factor just couldn't keep up with technology - this meant the final years of Group A were not as exciting as, say 1985 to 1989). Having said that, I think aerodynamics were always going to ruin motorsport for me - I followed motorsport because of my fascination of cars, drivers and engineers battling to put power down within the bounds purely of mechanical grip. For me, aero just ruined it.
There is a simple fix - for me anyway. Make it a proper touring cars championship like it was in the 80's - who can forget the Schnitzer BMW 635's, the Walkinshaw Jags, the Brock Sierra's, the Nissan Skyline's etc etc, they were the best years for me. Only my 2c but Holden v Ford got tiresome for me many years ago. I think production car racing is in big trouble though as more and more people buy fully electric cars so who knows what will happen? But at the current rate I give Supercars 2-3 more years max before it finally fizzles and dies an undignified death.
@@nzmike7497 that's over.
They barely make sedans any more.
Incredibly, there was a bidding war, when the joint was sold off recently
V8 Supercars paddock is notoriously toxic. Nobody says it out loud but many people alluded to it. Everybody just seems to be way too intense and on the edge all the time. I mean you've got drivers fighting in the post season gala ceremony of all places and a team co-owner who is so tactless that he manages to piss off his own driver champion so bad that he would sit out half of the season
And then theres Charlie. The way Frosty got treated was disgraceful. Frosty is a good bloke.
Supercars is trying to become the feeder series to NASCAR in a buyout.
Only thing that makes sense to me.
That man is sooooo TOXIC!!!!
2 drivers got into a nothing burger fight (there own words). Your stretching the truth a looooonnnnggggg way to make your narrative stick there bucko.
@@blackjacktrialI like to call it the ‘NASCAR Repco Australia Series’ now, the modern Supercars Championship is not V8 Supercars by heart anymore, it’s just Supercars in name only, other than that, it’s just NASCAR but on road courses
Grew up watching group A touring cars We had jags bmws sierras mustangs volvos commodores celiac , shittons of everything, depending on the track 40,50,60+ fields . Backmarkers, recovery trucks on the road , broken down cars on the side of the course . The drivers had balls of steel . The racing was a spectacle . Pit stops meant something. The racing now is so boring . Someone farts in his car ,safety car bunch up the field . Nothing happens it’s just a boring procession . I literally watched ten minutes of Bathurst this year , doing laps on my ride on for 5 hrs was more enthralling so I mowed instead .
I haven't watched more than 10 minutes of Bathurst over the last 10 years.
The touring car series was the best. I recall as a kid watching a camaro and a mini cooper duelling it out at Lakeside. Every lap the cooper overtook in the corners while the camaro got the cooper on the straight...Absolutely rivetting.
Supercars is as boring as watching dog shit dry in the sun
international rules n damn safety car horsemanure was the beginning of the end of aussie racing.
Farting is a serious safety concern the marshals number 1 job is driver safety 🙄
If 2024 Bathurst is anything to go by, its already dead, it was insanely boring. Watching paint dry would be more entertaining.
similar for me, went for 3 days in 2008 did the dawn till dusk watch fest to 2024 when I forgot to watch.
With most V8 Supercars races not on free TV, anymore they are losing a new generation on fans.
Especially when people no longer have the money to spend on it. I'm flat out as it is with a plain $18 Stan subscription - I can't afford the sport add-on!
You hit the nail on the head mate. Once Holden got closed down, it lost the appeal to the everyday fan. The cars used to resemble what we drove on the road every day. Now they’re cars that the every day fan could never afford.
This. ^ ^
I'd rather see Mercs and BMW racing, as I see more of those around than Camaros and Mustangs. If V8SCs isn't able to garner the interest of those manufacturers... well, it says a lot.
Add in the fact that (as many others have said) they are not unique underneath, and have no resemblence to an actual road-car anymore, what's the point? GT3 is now by far the more interesting category.
@@ThoBar130 so basically V8SC has to do what DTM did in Germany and bite the GT3 bullet eh?
Not just Holden closing but also people moving away from Falcons and Commodores.
@@MikoyanGurevichMiG21 yeah righto because a GT3 car is so much more affordable.....
@@Spiraldeath I think there's room to split into 2 categories, GT3 and, for lack of a better term, GT5...so your Hyundai N, Toyota GR and so on. Lower speeds but the cars are relevant to fans and lower costs to the teams, and because the cars are attainable to begin with it makes the sport more relevant to a larger audience.
The other big problem is population, or lack of it. Australia has less people than Texas but is about the same size as the whole lower 48 of the US. That means travel costs are insane and there just isn't the people in those areas to make up the dollars. Even if NASCAR is a long way from the most popular in the US these days it still pulls around 2.5-3 million viewers per race.
Australias most popular sports league brings just around a million viewers on average per match and that's the top sport. Supercars would be lucky to be in the top 7 most watched sports in Australia now.
This wasn't as much of a problem in the past as the cars were much cheaper to run but as time has gone on the costs have gone way up while the viewers have dropped way off, not a recipe for financial success.
Also while the whole world's car culture is definitely declining Australia's has declined much quicker. Its hard to find people interested in cars at all, and for the few who are F1 is what people gravitate toward as there's been at least 1 Aussie in F1 for the last 25 years, and all 3 have won a few races so there was and is hype around them here.
I really thought Supercars was genuinely on it's deathbed which is why it shocked me when Toyota joined recently, so hopefully there's some life left.
@@joshanderson9391 Supercars will survive but in what form? Is it a hybrid of NASCAR & Supercars? Let’s face it, the old saying of win on Sunday and sell on Monday doesn’t cut it. You can’t buy a Camaro and Toyota is about to kill the Supra.
Bit of rubbish, teams once drove the race cars to tracks for a shakedown, Melbourn to Bathurst at fair speed. Should be looking to go back to those days.
@ Not rubbish and you can’t spell Melbourne
@@richardwood9177 You can't abbreviate. Kiwi?
Population didn't affect the ATCC when it was free to air
As an 'old fart' who recalls the origins of supercar racing, which really started at the annual Bathurst race back in the 1960's, it has been interesting (and sad) to watch the digression. If I were to sum up the decline in one word it would be 'professionalism'. More professional = more boring. The reason so many people got so enthralled in the event back in those days was it was real cars being punted by (relatively) ordinary blokes (ie they actually worked other jobs). And when the Holden V8 vs Ford V8 tussle started in 68 it went to a level of interest and excitement never seen before, nor since. Sadly, as in all things it became more and more professional, and now it's a drag (as in boring not race). As to why so many Oz & Kiwi drivers are heading to the US? Don't let them fool you mate, it's the money.
I don't think it's the money, I think it's the passion.
Haven’t watched it since it wasn’t televised live on free to air!!
Go back to the days where you had multiple makes with different engines, that's what's lacking.
If that were the case, IPRA and TCR would be booming on a national scale.
I just hope with Toyota showing up soon Supercars don't make the same mistake around 6ish years ago where they basically treated the foreign OEMs (Nissan, Volvo, and Mercedes) as complete afterthoughts. IMO Supercars need to let go of the whole "GM Vs Ford" thing as its main selling point and instead treat it as an extra (major) bonus of the league.
Toyota is gonna join the Supercars? Man, they really are trying to be like us😅
@@benjamindeloneyToyota wants to compete against GM and Ford Mo Co.
@@benjamindeloney It's even more important here in Australia where Toyota have been the dominant market leading brand with nearly 30% market share for over 25 years.
@@benjamindeloneyit's not Supercars' idea, it's Toyota's
Toyota was supposed to come in 2013 with Lexus . Let’s see if BMW follow in because it only be a fount end and barge charge. Toyota is coming in this next season I thought ? The old hdt signed a deal
When people struggle to keep a roof over their head they aren’t going to pay to watch car racing. Bring it back live and free
That’s a great description😂
Supercars has always been a bogan series. It appealed to bogans as they could loosely copy the cars into road cars. Now there is nothing to copy and the racing is trying to move up market. This racing does not appeal to middle class and they are more likely to follow European style cars. Mark Skaife can take a lot of the blame for this. He pushed for street circuits and space framed cars in the name of safety but at the expense of entrainment.
@@mablesfatalfable6021 No counter argument only a key word reply. 🤪
Those bogans are going to run out of Falcodores at some point. I don't completely agree with you. The driver's have become politically correct and the commentary is hardly as interesting as in the days of Brock, Perkins and Johnson.
@@rbowe6 Or Jim Richard's speaking to the crowed after Bathurst 1992.
"I thought Australian race fans had a lot more to go than this. This is bloody disgraceful. I'll keep racing but I'll tell you what, this is going to remain with me for a long time. You're a pack of arseholes."
In my honest opinion, its the lack of hard racing along with the rules and regulations. Sandown (a track I've been to many times) is under threat to build houses on it. Its been on and off with the 500km (312 mile) races over the years
I didn't know that about Sandown. I thought it might have had a more solid future because it also had horse racing.
It just felt different watching a Holden Commodore race against a Ford Falcon
Back when you knew people who drove those things to work every day.
100 pussent
I'm not from Australia or the US, but I've been a huge Supercars fan since 2008. I've watched almost every race, and Bathurst day was always reserved for The Great Race. I followed all the drivers, but things changed when the saloon shape was replaced by the Camaro and Mustang coupes. Then Holden left, and many drivers followed. The racing got boring, and the thrill was gone. I started losing interest in 2020, even in Bathurst.
Ten years ago, I was sure I'd visit The Great Race one day. Now, I'm not so sure. I went to Le Mans in 2024, and it was awesome! In 2025, I'll be at the Daytona 500, so at least I'll see SVG live once in my life.
But still, Supercars is dead to me, and the Toyota Supra with its pony car shape is the final nail in the coffin. RIP my old love.
google three laps bathust no music
The issue with Supercars is that they have stripped the Team vs. Team engineering out of it. There is no development, skirting the regulations, or reward for innovation. And yes, there are no Australian cars anymore, which also sucks.
In saying this, it isn’t just a fall for Supercars, it’s a decline in Australia as a whole. You mentioned things like real estate, etc., and yeah, it's spot on. The category is soulless, as is the country. If I could leave, I would... Oh, our currency has been destroyed. Bugger.
I feel pretty much the same.
It's the same here in NZ
Aussie here, The supercars series is dying in the ass
Yes They have lost me!!! Im 70 years old!!! Sad to see supercars destroyed by a pack of arrogant muppets?
If you're an Aussie, the word is arse.
@@girlsblouse7866 👍
I disagree i think 2024 was a good season. Waters, Mozzie, Brown and Feeny had a lot of good battles
@@andymills2985honestly mate, there’s still pockets of good racing in Modern Supercars, but not as good as what we had like a decade or two ago
as a freelance motorsport photographer, the one time I sought accreditation for a Supercar event was the first night race at SMP a few years back, mainly because it was something different. yes, the Supercar series is pretty bland/boring and I spent most of my time that weekend enjoying the support categories and taking a lot more photos of them than the Supercar races, a bit like watching on TV, I'll make sure I can view the supports and only watch maybe the first couple of laps of the Supercars. you are so correct re the TV commentators as everyone knows when the race becomes a bit of a procession they begin waffling on about anything almost proving they are as bored as the viewers.
I never knew Holden went out of business in 2020 until Last year.
What I have learned is that it’s not Just GM
Ford, Toyota and Mitsubishi all closed their assembly plants in Australia as well
This happened because there used to be import tariffs significant enough that it encouraged the OEMs to produce cars on the continent. As soon as the Australian government made it known they were going to let the tariffs elapse, GM and Ford were quick to announce they were ceasing production there and would instead import all of their cars.
I’m pretty sure we also produced Nissans and Mazdas at some point, only a few models or maybe car parts, i can’t remember.
Yes it was a domino effect, they relied on each other for parts, expertise etc.. When the big guys closed the others had no choice but to go, and the government weren't willing to subsidize them to keep the industry alive. So now a graveyard.
Tony Abbotts government ended it all when they cut the support that was keeping things alive.
@@leonkernan exactly they mocked the manufactures and dared them to leave so they did.
Sequential shift was the end for me.
Me too.
Unfortunately I think Supercars is on it's deathbed, the local cars are gone, people don't feel a connection with the gen 3 cars and our best drivers are overseas. We've seen DTM go the way of GT3 cause of costs and either Supercars will adopt NASCAR cars completely or GT3 rules in the next few years.
It's a shame cause V8 Supercar racing was the best tin-top racing in the world, close action-packed racing and cars that looked on the edge at all times (WTTC cars looked slow and sounded terrible, DTM and Super GT were too planted and were basically GT cars, and NASCAR look clumsy and too big and heavy on road courses) V8's were the perfect blend of all classes.
GT3 is unlikely to reduce costs if anything good chance in may increase costs.
I agree. I have attended supercars races and GT3 races and TCR races. GT3 wins by daylight followed by TCR and stone cold motherless last is supercars. I've also followed DTM and seen how they've had to evolve as they become a 3 make/2 make series. GT3/GT4 is the racing of the future.
It used to be Holden v Ford, Brock v Johnson…you were either red or blue and the rivalry was local…Australian made cars, being driven on Australian tracks and EVERYONE had a favourite driver/ team. Now it’s just American replicas (not even real Mustangs and Camaros), with no local connection…it’s essentially an American series being run here, with Americanesque hype. The only race I watch now, is Bathurst and even that holds little interest for me - it’s just something I’ve always done.
Would be funny if a nascar driver went over to supercars and praised the series.
So many comments that make a lot of sense and definitely hit all the issues.
Biggest thing for me was uniqueness. Commadore vs falcon was good, got more boring by the end because they got closer and closer to being the same car anyway.
Back in the 90s and earlier we had heaps of cars. Cosworths, M3’s, falcons, commodores, GTRs and a few others and that’s all racing at the same time.
With the new cars they are straight up kick cars with different looks and I think different sized engines but over all the same, doesn’t help the Camaro is practically none existent in Australia so it makes no sense seeing it be a flag ship car for a Aussie racing series.
And yeah, no where to watch it, we used to throw it on the telly but now it only streams on 1 app or you have to pay for extra channels. Theh do their best to make it more inconvenient to watch
Supercars took too much drive ability away from Gen3, which detracts from the racing. Drivers used to be able to trim the car during the race by adjusting sway and roll bar as well as brake balance. This enables a driver to adjust the car to the track conditions on the fly, making the car more competitive. Unfortunately, now, if the car is a dog, you are stuck with it until the next pitstop where the pit crew makes the adjustment for you.
I just finished watching the whole season of WEC for free on RUclips. Some fantastic racing and lots of brands. I’d never really been interested in sports cars before. The races are long and it’s amazing that so many cars finish.
Everyone loved motor racing in Australia in the 70’s and 80’s.
V8 super cars lost me really when it started. It slowly got more boring over the years to the point where I even stopped watching Bathurst.
Watching all the old stuff on RUclips is so good. I miss it.
Couldn't agree more - WEC is absolutely brilliant! Unlike Supercars it has different classes, different technologies, and different manufacturers coming and going, plus drivers like Valentino Rossi (massive fan here!) and for me (as a Kiwi) Earl Bamber, Brendon Hartley and a few others that I can follow. Have always loved Supercars but it needs to go back to a PROPER touring car championship with any brand welcomed, not this current American muscle snoozefest. For the first time ever I turned Bathurst off after an hour or two this year - utterly boring and predictable, too many rules, too many safety cars, no difference in the cars whatsoever, etc etc. Very sad but it needs to die so something better can take it's place.
The key issues fir me
1. Only available on pay TV. This kills any sport by limiting exposure
2. Cars have no relevance to our daily drivers any more - FFS, a camaro hasnt even been sold by GM for how many years now?
3. Rules. Too many, too anal, too many bizarre interpretations
4. Safety cars should be banned. They have turned endurance races into sprint races
5. Cost to compete is too high, limiting the number of teams
6. Safety is way OTT
Agree. The result is that it's become a "plastic" race just so the wealthy ones can pat each other on the back.
I wonder if you would be so quick to scream OTT safety if someone came to your work place and started removing safety mechanisms that could potentially save your life, thus endanger your life every time you went to work.
@Spiraldeath I'm retired..... but
1. No business I've ever worked for requires a complete shut down when someone has an accident
2. Aussie touring cars did just fine without safety cars, and a lot less in-built safety than the current cars have
3. Motorsport is inherently risky - your life insurance won't cover it
4. If safety was the driving force behind "safety" cars, the whole race schedule would be held behind a safety car
Mate, nanny state is way OTT. In a hundred years times, it will be illegal to leave your home due to "safety" risks. Rediculous "safety" needs to be wound back about 20 years, to get some balance into life
You are welcome to wrap yourself in cotton wool, but don't make everyone else do it due to your own insecurities
@@Goodkiwibloke easy to say at the end of your life I wonder if your family would agree if they lost you to a work place accident 20 years ago.
And would you be just as happy for them to start removing safety from your kids work place if it made things cheaper and faster, that is if you have kids.
@Spiraldeath Thanks for your concern, but I'm not anywhere near the end of my life - I'm only mid 50's.
And yeah, I would have been quite OK with former employers removing "safety" requirements - i always thought it was dumb making employees wear safety glasses while they walk from their cars into the office. That was nothing more than butt covering inconvenience........
Just like the proliferation (plauge) of road cones that have appeared over the past 15 years - unnecessary BS
Supercars is a corporate brand. Our current racing comes from and still is the Australian Touring Car Championship. The Copoartion Supercars cars took broadcasting from free too air too pay TV. I said it was an error that will take 10 years to be noticed. All those families with children that couldn't afford pay TV. Gone....There is and has been a total and utter lack of transparency around technical data and parity and a staggering brand biased which still exists. The 888 racing team and Supercars developed the current generation however Supercars was the biggest investor of the 888 Camaro. Supercars refused to acknowledge the parity issue between Camaro and Mustang until after 2023 Bathurst ensuring a GM white wash. Supercars had that tech data for months prior to Bathurst. That was one season without parity. It took the best part of the last season for the engine adjustments to come through. 2 seasons without parity. When the first Mustsng raced and won the entire paddock screamed parity and they made 7 adjustments in one season too the Mustang and then 2 pick me ups to the Commodore. The rule book stays the vehicle with advantage must be bought back to the rest of the feild. The last two seasons adjustments as far as I know have been to the Mustang no Camaro. Every time they adjust it throws any usable data and set up out the window. They were supposed to bring Camaro back by adjusting it....I can go on and on. Supercars stopped listing to the fans 15 years ago and every time the administrator of this series ignored the fan the TV viewing audience and track spectators numbers tumbled. But this time they have really really done it. Drivers gagged teams gagged of course drivers want to race and speak their mind. Yes many would tomorrow if they could
From my position as a Australian, I simply faded away from it due to scheduling. I'm a father with a 100 other commitments but I could organise myself to keep a few hrs clear every second Sunday to turn on the TV and watch the series. Over the last few years they seem to have a race miss a month race for three weeks consecutively take 3 mths off. Anyway, I just missed more races than I saw and lost interest. It's also ridiculously formulaic. Its amazing how 20 cars qualifying within a second of each other can lead to such dull racing. Also, if I hear a commentator say how costly that crash was and wow how terrible it is two cars hit each other in a race. They look like just a bunch of bars with a plastic cover like a rc toy. They should just race those and put some sound effects on it.
I’m an Aussie who lives on the west coast, and was at the Bristol Fall Race - that one. Supercars were meant to make Gen3 much cheaper but ended up with an inferior car which costs more than the old one - I’ve spoken to some team managers when I was at the WA round who told me this. Australia doesn’t have the money in the sport to sustain high cost cars, and when the cars are awful to watch even die hard motorsport fans like me struggle to watch it week on week - I’m just not excited anymore. Combine this with there being big gaps in the schedule make it hard to know when the next race is on. I’m just not a big fan anymore - I’d rather watch NASCAR or Super GT in Japan. Cheers!
Like most things in life these days, people have become a numb. I’m 57yrs old. I thought that when I retired I’d buy the car Brocky won Bathurst in 79, that’s what it ment to me. Sadly those 70 cars are now more than a house. Cheers from Bundaberg.
SVG summed it up perfectly. The racing is boring now. They just drive around follow the leader waiting for a safety car. Look at Bathurst this year, was the most boring race all year. They have copied America way to much & now Aussies don’t relate to the series
And modern NASCAR is nothing to copy!
Going to the Playoffs is a massive mistake. Iirc the main Argentinian racing series did something similar years ago. But the whole "don't look like the cars on the road" problem is something racing series will have to face. Automakers only want to make awful SUVs now. Road relevance in racing will rarely be a selling point anymore, so racing series better start putting some serious work on the on-track product. The Bathurst 1000 this year was painfully boring. They must do something about the tyres.
Playoffs suck as a now former NASCAR fan.
I would like to see if NASCAR will held an event here in Australia. At Melbourne. If that happens, I will pay a full ticket to the xfinity series race there.
NASCAR used to ho one in Australia in the pass I’m pretty sure at the Thunderdome
@@oldtech8520 Yeah, it happened in the 80s
@@oldtech8520 Once for the opening of the thunderdome.
Only one track to have a nascar cup race in Australia is Bathurst end of story .
@@deanlaurens2969 That's my thought. Having the race at Bathurst. but that's in NSW.
I was thinking of having it at Albert Park or Sandown.
I gave up on the 'V8 Supercars', after the farce in Newcastle at the end of the 2017 season. When Scott McLaughlin lost the title after the deputy chairman of the series called a time penalty on McLaughlin. Not the Race Stewards, the deputy chairman of the series.
The parity issue hasn’t helped Supercars in the last two seasons and the 2024 Bathurst race was boring because of it.
I love these cars, they look and sound great and close competitive racing is what they can provide.
I think something a couple of US podcasters kind of pondered made me think what could generate interest and help both NASCAR and Supercars. Two special co-driver events. One on an American road or street course in a NASCAR and one on a road or street course in Australia with an American NASCAR driver teamed up with a Supercar driver in each. No transporting of cars just drivers. With Toyota added in 2026 even more compatible.
Another strange trend is the number of New Zealanders in Indycar. Dixon, Mclaughlin and Armstrong.
Not just Indycar. Van Gisbergen is going to Nascar, Lawson will race at Red Bull F1, Nick Cassidy and Mitch Evans are winning a lot in Formula E. The amount of great racing drivers for such a (relatively) small country is astounding!
you do realise that dixon may live in NewZealnd now Yet was Born to Aussie Parents and Brought up In QLD?? by your standards SVG and Scott are Now Aussies??
@@NeilHill-j7q Why are you so upset. He races under the NZ flag.
@TS0713 A veritable ''Wolf in Sheeps clothing''.
NASCAR sucks
Just a side note on Ford shut its local production and operations down in October 2016 while Toyota and Holden closed local production in October 2017 and GM finally killed the Holden brand in February 2020. As for track closures I couldn’t find an exact figure but it’s at least 30 since the 80s including some of my favourite bike tracks like Oran and Amaroo both here in NSW on the outskirts of Sydney.
I remember getting up really early to watch the start of Bathurst 500 that took most of the day, now we got Bathurst 1000 its starts at 11 it’s basically a sprint race, cars are so reliable now it becomes boring and the fact that there’s only one class, they should at least add the Dunlop series in with them, why not make things interesting again.
The touring car series was the best. I recall as a kid watching a camaro and a mini cooper duelling it out at Lakeside. Every lap the cooper overtook in the corners while the camaro got the cooper on the straight...Absolutely rivetting.
Super car drivers in Australia are becoming bored with the racing here. Our race tracks are slowly disappearing. And the cars have little in common with what we can buy today. Remember, race on Sunday sell on Monday. I think the GT3 12 hour race at Bathurst in February is way more interesting than the V8 super car.
When Harvick retired, i began following V8 Supercars. It's a shame it going through a downturn.
Mate it’s been on the down for much longer
The peak for the V8 Supercars formula is late 90's using FIA group 3A rules up to 2012 through the whole Project Blueprint era in 2013 switched to COTF era we are in now its ok but that is the first Generation car to the current Gen III fail car
Prior to 1997 it was still called the ATCC using FIA group 3A rules I'll quickly add so some of the stuff you should watch like Larry Perkins first bathurst win for his own team 93 is still ATCC but the car he is driving is the beginnings of V8 Supercars drove the Castrol VP Holden Commodore with Holden's own 308ci push rod alloy V8 he personally tunned prior to this 92 91 and going back was dominated by foreign teams and cars like Nissan's GTR really annoying local fans watching Holden getting beaten after being so dominant during the group E era of the 60's (strict production cars no tuning) then group C of the 70's in the the early 80's group C got the nick name BigBangas because of the big aero kits the cars grew and the massive engines they had
@@kylemcnaney6217 thanks for the info!
It isn't. Your just listening to the wrong people.
I wish Scotty McLaughlin would be given a drive in a nascar cup race
To be fair to Supercars, we had it really good for so long. The project blueprint era was (imo), the best era of the series; the championship almost always went down to the final round (the only time this didn’t happen was 2012, the final season of PB), and in most cases the final race of the series. We had so many drivers at their peaks, Lowndes, Tander, Whincup, Frosty, Davo, JC, Rick Kelly, with Todd Kelly, Ingall, Brighty, Murphy, Steve Johnson, Jason Richards, Holdsworth, Caruso, Skaife and Richo popping up here and there, plus the early beginnings of Reynolds, Coulthard and SVG. It was just such a good era, and unfortunately I don’t know how any other era can compete with that.
Now, I know the cars are a big downside for a lot of people. And I get it. The series has been built on the Red v Blue, Holden v Ford rivalry. And when we lost Holden, they tried to keep that rivalry going, instead of just trying to rebuild and re-establish itself. For me, the cars not being Australian aren’t as big of an issue if the racing is good, and unfortunately the racing hasn’t been great. Now, Townsville and Adelaide have proven that the series is capable of good racing but it’s few and far between.
The tyre issue is due to the fact that the cars are still using tyres from the gen2 cars, which are fundamentally different design philosophies to gen3. The cars should be getting new tyres for next year, so hopefully that can improve the racing.
Perhaps the biggest issue is that the series is marketed poorly. As someone else mentioned, it has to compete with the NRL and AFL, both of which have a stranglehold on the Australian sporting scene (the Townsville weekend coincided when the Cowboys NRL game, which I believe is a first since the Townsville circuit was added). Again, when Supercars first started, it had great marketing under Tony Cochrane (which is when the sport changed its name from the Australian Touring Car Championship to V8 Supercars), but now it’s lost that. Hopefully a new team can come in and revitalise it
There's a host of reasons for the slow, death spiral of top-line touring car racing in Australia. One is the demographic, market relevance another as others have posted, for better or worse car culture in Australia is not what it was in past decades. There is massive competition for the viewing spectator dollar from stick and ball sports and they will always be king in this country. Going behind a paywall was a massive mistake, I can afford it but others for reasons both philosophical and economic won't pay to watch. Supercars as a motorsport spectacle is truly a niche market, it has little appeal for motorsports enthusiasts like me who follow the sport at all levels from my local hillclimb to club and some national series (other than SC) at permanent tracks here in Qld and the east coast. I've followed motorsports in this country since the mid-70s and until the change of rules in '93 there was pretty much a brand or model for everyone to follow but the big capacity hero cars still ruled and that was fine and the stuff of legends. When the Ford/Holden thing became the only show in town that alienated an entire cohort who either left completely or only engaged casually. Supercars are big and fast and they deserve big, fast circuits. But they don't go to Phillip Island and are only returning to Queensland Raceway this next year but continue to go to single lane goat tracks like Symmons Plains and Barbagello. Why anyone would want them to return to Winton escapes me. Any circuit with a sub- 1 minute lap (or thereabouts) shouldn't be hosting a round. It makes for exceptionally boring, technical racing unless you are just there to see the carnage. Then there are the street tracks. With the exception of Adelaide and Albert Park I struggle to think of one street track that actually promotes good racing, lots of crashes but not a lot of good racing. Hamilton, Canberra, and Newcastle spring to mind as abject failures in terms of racing spectacle. The shortened Gold Coast is just a incident-ridden "jet fighters in a gymnasium" crash-fest. All of that said I have no desire to see the series fail, for better or worse it is the pinnacle of motorsport in Australia but I can see why drivers are looking elsewhere to make a very good living out of the sport they love.
I watched Bathurst in the 70's through to recent times and I personally loved watching the large and small cars fighting it out in the 70's as well as in the more recent Bathurst 24 hour production car races of the 90's minus the literal supercars, remember the RX8's vs WRX's s EVO's vs Suzuki Swifts vs Commodores, Falcons, Camry's ect ect... even a Volvo Wagon... Bring that back with the cars we can actually buy. The modern standardised oversized go karts of late which only differences are basically cosmetic and badges hold no relevance to myself or the average Australian motorist that I know unlike the racing of yesteryear. Even the Motorcycle engined "Aussie Racing Car" Series or ute category is way more entertaining than modern V8 Supercars.
0:50 you should have or you didn't mention Marcos Ambrose who was the original Australian Supercars Pioneer
Marcos Ambrose is a knob head
I think you nailed it on the head, I just think the reason the cars are not relatable to Australians is the AU-made Falcon and Commodore were less than half the price of remanufactured Mustangs and Camaros we have now, making the vehicles less attainable for fans.
There's to much advertising on the cars and it's hard to distinguish between the two
I couldn't agree more with the anonymous users comment. The soul of V8 Supercars was Ford Vs Holden and a link (if somewhat distant) between the Aussie made Ford's and Holden's that you could buy and drive. For the fans your either Ford or Holden and that friendly rivalry extended to the backyard BBq. With the demise of Holden and the Aussie made Ford Falcon waning interest in V8 Supercars was inevitable.
Organizers believed moving towards the Nascar style might work here but for me at least the magic has gone.
As an Australian and Motorsport photographer, the sports gone down in my eyes as some of the traditional tracks like Phillip island or Winton ain’t on the calendar anymore. It’s sad to see but maybe it’s like a hosting fee and they think it’s not worthwhile. But yet Winton attracts a lot of fans as it’s a country town race. I think it’s more money and mangers.
Winton is my local track and I honestly think they ruined the character of it with the extension. It was never intended to be a large scale circuit and it is pretty obvious the extension was only added to increase the length and allow for two longer straights to facilitate overtaking opportunities into the two braking areas. But I always liked what is now simply the "club" circuit. It is a great technical track too (the club circuit) and I have always maintained that if you can set a car up from scratch to work well at Winton then you have the skills to set a car up anywhere.
I gotta say, well done you. Thank you for getting things right. All to often people comment on things from a place of ignorance. You mentioned iconic tracks being closed to make room for housing developments and you show a picture of Oran park. Oran park was a fantastic drivers circuit, I raced there many many time and now it's all gone to make way for another poxy suburb.
I appreciate that! It does hurt from afar seeing a lot of tracks in Australia and NZ close down
I’ve been going to Bathurst since 1978…. Bathurst 2024 was the first time I didn’t watch it at all. It’s become the most boring race in the world. Bring back the halcyon days of 63 cars on the starting grid, mixed classes, and privateers.
Yes - let’s race cars we can actually buy even if they strip them down and add toll cages like they used to
The quote you presented is spot-on. Commodore vs Falcon rivalry was the lifeblood of this sport and with both of them gone, there is no fire, no passion. They killed off local manufacturing so the series just isn’t relevant anymore. It is a sad state of affairs. I miss the old days.
I know SuperCars is hoping Toyota's involvement will rejuvenate the series.
Along with Daniel Riccardo possibly joining the series from F1. This is very likely because he doesn't seem to want to return to the F1 grid & there is little to no interest from teams to bring him in.
@@chrisguardiano6143 Pfft, it's not even remotely likely that Danny Ric will be in Supercars. If he does want to race on he'll take the "open chequebook" offer from Toyota and race in WEC. Personally, I think we'll find hm in the media
He's moving to Margaret River to smoke cones and drink the local Vino. A Bathurst run may appeal to him, but he'll probably just stay home and keep rooting Heidi Berger. I know I would.
Toyota are only making the Supra until the end of 2025. Can’t see it lasting long.
Another Aussie here: I watched V8 Supercars from day 1, religiously. But I lost interest in 2019. There are a number of factors, the cars have been technically handicapped to the point where the drivers can’t even adjust their own anti-rollbars anymore. The move to become a spec series just sucks. You used to have great teams building and tuning their own engines and designing their own parts, now it’s all spec parts and technically uninteresting.
The tire situation has gotten worse with hardly any sets per weekend and no freedom for the teams to really try counter strategies.
The cars have gotten fragile too, and at the same time the rules have become overzealous, to the point were there’s no door banging racing any more. It was never ok to punt others off, but drivers would definitely subscribe to “rubbing is racing “.
And to top it off, our local car industry is dead. It used to be Ford Falcon vs Holden Commodore, and average punters could afford to go buy one. But Mustangs and Camaros are just not affordable here.
Nascar has more money, more fame, way less toxic. You can build a long career running in the top 20 as opposed to Europe and the Asia Pacific region, which require results in a relativity consistent nature. There is also more racing. it's a little easier to get around with private jets, etc. Something and somewhere different, America is a fun place despite all its problems, you can basically live the way you want and it has a huge motorsport community. Australian racing looks like the USA on the outside, but teams have a European management style. Top teams actually have quite a toxic atmosphere, where low employee numbers work long hours to make up the difference. Race weekends in Supercar are demanding, with a number of races cramed in around non-stop media appearances and mandatory signings, with no downtime to focus and enjoy the competition aspect. Some of the tracks facilities are wanting. The rules of engagement are strict like open wheel racing, which takes away the fun, and teams seem reluctant to growth due to cost.
On the other hand, there is a reason why a lot of drivers dont go. History shows that a move overseas is a risk for drivers. We've seen the likes of Montoya, Hornish and Ambrose, top thier own series, make the switch to struggle immensely. Their is also a fact no one talks about but living in the USA on a visa as opposed to Europe and Japan leaves you at the mercy of the system and we saw that with james McFadden this year who was not permitted to enter before the atart of the high limit season. There is also tax issues. Nascar is also for a certain type of person, one who lives to race, as the time for anything else is limited. And we saw that with whincup, who wants to stay in Australia, where he could play on his boats and hang with mates on the many off weekends, to break away from the world of racing. Remember, scott maclughin is married to a US citizen which makes it a bit easier but some may struggle with intergeneration. We heard marcus talk aboit how hard it was for his young family in the USA, which detracted away from his own enjoyment. For Australians and kiwis the US is a ton of fun until you need to live a normal socially supported life, like in the commonwealth countries amd Europe. From my personal experience in the USA, things like private health insurance, sales tax, ownership tax, doing your own tax even, tipping plus finding food that was not processed, finding cheap restaurants that made good home style food, taxis when drinking because there was no metro or safe night transport, was very difficult for me to adjust to, and now living in Europe, its basically the same standard I had in Japan and Australia. supercars is more legitimate. One thing you cannot criticise the series for is being entertaining for the sake of it. I believe a sucessful supercar career is just as gratifying and any nascar career. The series is better presented as well, more in line with FIA rules which makes the easier and more realistic jumps to international GT and sportscar races easier. Oval racing is not for everyone, despite Australia being the second biggest competitors in oval competition, all of it is on dirt, and not many of the current drivers take up the sprint car or super sedan (late model) prefering to go drive sports cars overseas or TCR or whatever. For sure the best drvier for nascar in Australia for NASCAR is Cam Waters, even Van Gisbergan admits it, so if there is no way for him to get over then there is no point for the others to try. I think had shane not won in Chicago, he would still be in supercars. So, actually, none of these drivers are leaving supercars yet. Both brown and kostecki atate they only want to play on the road courses when they get a change and waters has little support to get him over there.
What a load of rubbish this is.
Your full of immense shit @@carisi2k11
NASCAR way less toxic. Right, I take it you haven't followed the charter drama this year and the disgraceful way that management have handled themselves. Even Rick Hendrick said the only reason he agreed to sign it was because he was tired of the arguing and general toxicity of NASCAR management
@mattcecil6692 not NASCAR itself. That's a corrupt organisation, and one of the issues when the promoter also writes the rule book. I meant the teams and crew members. Compared to F1 and WEC teams, which are cut throat. They will tolerate running 20th place for a lot longer than any non nascar team.
Fans are toxic
For me, there are a few reasons.
1. It's the cars, they're not relatable. I preferred Touring Car Masters, but they seem to have ended that.
2. You can't watch it, they don't air it on regular TV unless it's Bathurst and you can't watch it online unless someone happens to be streaming it, which only happens for Bathurst.
3. When it comes to the track stuff you talked about, what's happening with Laguna Seca is the norm here.
4. The racing just isn't as entertaining as it was in the 2000s. I'm not talking about crashes either, I'm talking about tense battles and thrilling overtakes.
It's kinda like how F1 in recent years isn't as interesting as it once was despite the 2024 season.
ATCC became V8 Supercars and I think it's about time to change formula again to better represent cars that actually sell over here for reasonable money. Camaros are damn expensive over here so it's only really the Mustang that's at a similar price point to the Commodore SS and Falcon XR8 we used to be racing. Call me crazy, but I think a hot hatch series would be entertaining and follows one of the trends vehicle purchases made over the past 10 years when people were downsizing to smaller cars (let us not race SUVs, I beg of you), so seeing Hyundai i30 Ns and VW Golf TDIs battling it out would bring some spice back into the series
I think if Daniel Riccardo heads to Supercars it will revive interest mainly because of how popular he is. This is very likely given how uninterested Riccardo is in returning to F1 & how there is little interest from teams to bring him in.
He is 35 years old and has made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in F1 ( the last reported salary was $15 million in 2022). He doesn't need the money and why would he start over in a sedan series WHEN HIS ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN IN KARTS AND OPEN WHEEL CARS?
I think a Van Gisbergen/ McLaughlin wildcard entry for Bathurst would sell more tickets
Our race format used to be Holden vs Ford, it was in our DNA. Growing up, you were one or the other.
They used to say “win on Sunday, buy on Monday”. That’s because you could go to a local Holden or Ford dealer and buy the same car that was racing on the weekend.
Then it changed when local manufacturing closed its doors.
The race cars looked nothing like road cars. Racing was only showed on pat tv, except Bathurst.
The cars looked more and more like NASCAR’s.
Sadly the sport lost its identity, and nobody cares about the fans anymore. Unfortunately, it’s all about money.
Aussie touring car fan for the last 40 yrs. Problems with series? Loss of best drivers, too few rounds, irrelevance of the cars. Car models come to the series to die e.g. Nissan altima, ford falcon, Holden commodore, Chev Camaro and Toyota Supra. The last one will be dead in Oz even before it lines up on the grid for its first race in the series. No easy fix.
The peak of Aussie supercars was in the mid 90s. Just Aussie built Holden's and fords. The cars were more raw. And so were the drivers. Now with all the new cars they just seem to blend into each other. It's like the more technology that goes into them the more boring they get.
Back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s Australian Motorsport was all about watching Ford, Holden and for a while Chrysler fighting it out in the locally produced muscle cars. In the 80s we switched to international group A and the crowds died off.
In 93 we went to the V8 supercars and the crowds returned.
However in the last couple of years with the latest generation of cars the locally made content wasnt there, people lost interest as the hard quality racing waned, iconic tracks disappeared, there was less and less race weekends and legendary drivers retired or left.
The playoff style series will be the nail in the coffin.
Even if Nascar has similiar issues, at least the racings hard and theres plenty of it.
Also I honestly think the car culture in Australia has died down. When I was younger, youd go into the city on a Friday or Saturday night and see iconic cars cruising nose to tail.
You just dont see that anymore. Kids dont grow up frothing about cars like they used to.
I'm an Aussie.
Outside of Bathurst. I stopped actively watching V8SC years ago. The racing is terrible.
2024 Bathurst was a snoozfest.
As a kid I'd get up early in the morning to watch the Bathurst weekend, but supercars .... yeah nah!
Australian V8 Supercars started with a car the general public in Australia could buy from the local car dealership & turn them into a racing car. I remember the show called V8 extra with them going to Larry Perkins workshop with him showing the progress of building a new racecar for Bathurst with him buying a new Holden Commodore shell from Holden. The inner wheel tubs were removed with his own built tubs to accommodate the fat racing wheels fitted, heat shields removed & a roll cage installed. Then his modified 5 litre Aussie Holden V8, drive train, suspension, brakes, etc. fitted. As the Holden Commodore & Ford Falcons models changed getting bigger, they no longer fitted in the regulation spec's so the teams would buy the panels from the factories, cut & shutting them to fit around a pre-built chassis/ roll cage. Later they just became fibreglass or carbinfibre penals. We lost the Bridgestone vs Dunlop vs Goodyear vs Yokohama war, we lost the fuel & oil war, we lost the Team Engineering war, driver war & now we lost the Aussie Holden vs Ford war. We went from road cars turned into racecars that go quick to Racingcar that look like over priced sports road cars. They all use the same tyres, fuel, aero chassis/rollcage, steering, suspension & brakes. The cars are boring, the drivers can't pass in a turn unless they're passed the B pillar bullshit. Nothing better them elbows out in tiptop racing. I've stopped watching the Aussie V8 Supercars because they're not Aussie cars, they're boring & unlike an Aussie road car that's made to go quick for racing now they are just a slow racecar that's no quicker. I now follow F1 but sadly it has no tyre wars & fuel wars, but it still has engineering & driver wars.
R.I.P Holden & V8 Supercars.
Red Bull Racing seem to win a lot, and when they are not winning they are whinging.
This is a spot on video. Instead of 55 cars on the grid at Bathurst, we get 26 cars that are the same under the skin. Some idiot wanted to dump a Ford engine into Camaros! We need to go back to something similar to Group C/A using real cars instead of fake rolling chassis. Our 12 hour with real expensive cars is much more exciting. Unfortunately, money talks these days with the TV networks paying huge dollars for shit racing. Being a motorsport fan over 50 years, and ex-club driver, I just think our current crop of drivers are too entitled and do not necessarily have the ability of our star drivers of yesteryear. Oh, and mandatory pitstops are bullshit and put strategy in the bin.
Holden and Ford is an Aussie Motorsport thing (The Red Vs Team Blue), In my time off following the Races (1993 to Current) We have lost at least 2 Race tracks to Housing and Lakeside Raceway was replaced by Queensland Raceway in the Early 2000s there Streets have in But Covid have put the Brake on series and think Supercars are going died out but hope not. Full-year racing for the championship and if you get round of two early So be it. The health of Supercars is Bad going to fall
A number of issues have occurred for me as to why I don’t get into the V8 Supercars like I used to.
1. Cars don’t have every day relevance like they used to (Win on Sunday sell on Monday)
2. Not free to air (pay to play)
3. Rules that hamstring the entertainment.
In the Kmart racing days it was lively and fun of energy. I almost went to every round on the calendar except Darwin and Tasmania. Now, I am lucky to watch a highlights reel.
I've been watching supercars less and less over the years and these gen 3 cars have made it unwatchable. But as a New Zealander seeing our guys in top teams in nascar/indy/f1/WEC it's more than enough to compensate for V8's fall off.
When the car stopped being based on road cars, it changed the scene and from there it’s definitely more boring, I only watch Bathurst now where as before I would watch the Supercars whenever it was on TV.
The best way to make supercars popular again is to open up the competition to all cars as was intended originally.
I was a Ford Fan as a kid ,, got up 7am to watch Bathurst every year ,, Sierras ,, GTHOs etc ,,, but when Holden Dealer team went ,, so did the interest ,,, what is the point now ?
I want to watch racing cars that are the pinnacle of their engineering. Not the same car with a mildly different outer shell. I'll take GT's, TCR and Trans-Am any day over the Supercars.
I did Aussie driver search back In 2018 and got to drive an old falcon v8 supercar at Philip island. Coolest experience ever. Miss those older cars
The old Australian adage ...when you're on a good thing, screw it.
I think part of it is that there is a large fan base for Nascar here, and many drivers would have watched the races and looked up to drivers in Nascar. You only have to look at Daniel Ricciardo taking the number 3 in F1 because Dale Snr was his motor racing hero. Then there's the fact that the oval racing would present a whole new challenge, and there's much more money to be made as a driver. Although, possibly the move Marcos Ambrose made all those years ago opened doors and showed it was much easier to go and race Nascar that it had been in the past.
An Aussie legend Dick Johnson had a red hot go in the 90's (i think) and didn't do very well considering his success in Australia, and that may have halted the idea for many that had aspirations for entering the Nascar field around that time. So, i actually think Marco's move helped make it a not so daunting task with contacts, Australian based backing, and most importantly, a general acceptance of drivers from Australia and New Zealand.
Yes, Supercars is dying rather rapidly. Not much shown on free to air, except crap highlights after midnight. No local cars made anymore. All imported, boring circuits that offer up no thrill joys to watch. It's just lap after lap. Sadly miss the TRUE days of Ford V Holden....
Check out Greg Murphy lapping the twin turbo 6 cylinder Panel Van, at The Mount, that engine format was an option few yrs back.
Marcus Ambrose can certainly be a factor.
Huh?
@@fasterout777 What?
😂 😂
@@fasterout777 Ambrose made the move from Australia to America and NASCAR back in 2006. Though, I did forget that he spells it Marcos and not Marcus.
It seems to me in many countries that except for the top level football and bat and ball sports (and probably basketball in the US) other sports struggle to keep or build large fan bases because there is so much competition of a wide variety of sports and other pastimes as well. A basic reality is broadcasters and streaming services are willing to pay huge premiums for the top level sports they know will deliver an audience. This, of course, leaves a lot of other sports fighting over a smaller pie.
In motor sports there are marquee events like the Indy 500 and Daytona 500, and in Australia the Bathurst 1000, that attract a lot of casual viewers that might not follow the racing series over a full season, so these events are very attractive to broadcasters.
I believe Supercars think that they can leverage interest in Bathurst into the final 3 races of the year (two of which are live on free-to-air) by introducing the 'finals' format to maintain the interest of a number of these casual Bathurst viewers, especially as the seasons of the 2 football codes are over and cricket season has yet to crank up.
If that is the theory, I think it is completely misguided. I find it hard to believe anyone who follows the whole series thinks the 'finals' idea has any merit. To demonstrate how ridiculous it is, theoretically a driver could win every race going into the 'final' and have an engine failure or trip over a backmarker and not be series champion. Ludicrous. No credibility whatsoever.
When I first heard the finals idea floated, I thought the top 6 or 10 drivers from the previous year could just draw straws in February, declare a winner and save all the wear and tear and money from running the cars.
No more Australian cars. The spirit is lost forever.
Hi mate , as an Aussie I can tell you the reason V8 Supercars is failing here now is because nobody cares since there is no longer Ford and Holden Rivalry. I grew up watching Peter Brock and Moffat’s brilliance and Mark Scaife’s amazing driving too.
Ever since Ford and Holden left Australia I haven’t even bothered to even care about watching V8 Supercars ever again.
The wizardry these guys could do on a track without all the modern day gimmickry in cars now was just astounding.
We can never get those pure racing days back.
Brock was the Aussie version of Ayrton Senna and just pure racing on a level nobody else could really compete with since the days of Stirling Moss and Brabham.