Thank you for your feedback. Portugal was traditionally a buying market. I came to Portugal in 2004 and renting was for the poor and nobody wanted to live in the centers of Lisbon or Porto. In the past you could also not raise the rents for tenants so home owners left the building empty. For me the main problem ist that you have a very asymmetrical distribution of the houses in Portugal. But it is easier to blame foreigners because you fill the headlines and they do jot vote against you
An interesting analysis. I am from Australia and like all western countries the problem is front and centre there too, despite years of record home construction. There international students and visa migrants are blamed as short term rentals are only a problem in some coastal areas like byron bay. I think this crisis is a result globally of years of low interest rates combined with massive covid era stimulus that has resulted in tonnes of money floating around the world looking for something to invest in. In Australia a big part of the problem is Australians and others speculating on an always rising property market that hasnt seriously stopped growing since the 1980s. Each place has similar problems manifesting differently.
In Portugal the low intersting rate, like in many other countries, caused a real hype buying a property. Which also makes sense. in Portugal however you have now a group "the lost 20%" that do not have any house to use from their family, the connect cope with the rents, also can not purchase a property because their income is to low to pay the credit. If the government installed tax on real estate heritages like in other countries the market woudl become much more felxible as many people would decide to sell the heritage instead of leaving it empty
They can solve it by making a high property tax and taking away or reducing the income tax. Almost all empty houses would get sold or rented. Prices would drop as well so normal workers could afford to buy.
As casas que estão vazias têm dono,casas de emigrantes portugueses, casas de herdeiros,casas de pessoas idosas que moram com os seus filhos,em instituições, casas de férias, e ninguém é obrigado aarrendar o que é seu, e Portugal não é só Lisboa, e porque razão vamos arrendar uma casa e depois não podemos despejar quem deixa de pagar a renda? Não existe um problema de habitação mas sim um problema de imigração ilegal,a culpa não é de quem tem possibilidade de comprar ou arrendar
@@saragomes6242Calada era uma poeta. Muito fácil culpar os imigrantes quando os números mostram que a culpa é de vocês! Um governo retrogrado que não facilita a construção e muito menos fornece infraestrutura, para além de só saberem taxar tudo e do outro lado a população local a dar sempre um jeitinho de fugir dos impostos. E claro que não deve ser obrigado a nada, é por isso que tem tantas ruínas a feder umidade no centro das ‘grandes’ cidades. Enquanto os donos vão viver em UK, Irlanda, França, Países Baixos, Suíça, etc. Aguarde mais uma década e verá o que será de Portugal se continuar com essas politicas.
My parents have a business in Porttugal, there really isnt a shortage of housing at all. Sure in Lisbon, Porto and the Algarve. But you go inland and to the north, and there are whole abandoned villages. Its the same story as supposed housing shortages everywhere, there are plenty of houses, plenty of space, but demand in the major metropoles is very high. Well, you choose to want to live there.
That’s inaccurate; you can quickly check Idealista to see that house prices have skyrocketed even in small villages. A property priced at €90,000 now sells for over €150,000, even in the same condition. The only correct point is regarding the shortage, which can be confirmed by looking at the number of empty houses for sale rather than those available for rent.
@@natansouza4295Stupid point. those are price raises in high demand areas. Go to tras os montes. You can buy houes there for basically scrap prices. Half of what you pay in Lisbon or less. And thats because no one wants to live there,
@@FaustsKanaal I wasn’t even talking about Lisbon, Porto, or Braga. Tell me the prices for houses in Covilhã, Guarda, Castelo Branco, Viana do Castelo, Vila Real, Mirandela, Bragança now and 3 years ago. And also provide information about job offers over those places there will be no surprise that there are almost none. So if there is no job, why would someone buy and live there? Unless you are talking about people retiring.
@@FaustsKanaal Furthermore, even in Lisbon, Porto, and Braga, there are many apartments to sell, so this argument of high demand is stupid. I see an uncontrolled market with homeowners trying to get the most out of it. And guess who is buying-the emigrants and investors from the US, UK, Switzerland, etc.
I think because Portugal like more to use the land as agriculture. But dwelling can, old houses, farmland. Portugal like to keep in more nature living lifestyle. Like it, I come from busy,modern,life. No need big,big housings investors.
It's not just housing that's absurdly expensive, it's everything else too. Portugal has first world prices and third world wages. The living costs and housing prices in my country (Sweden) is very similar to that of Portugal, the difference is that our income is 2-3 times higher. My guess is that the economy as a whole is disfunctional. Low productivity, low technology, low paying jobs, poor education, poor infrastructure etc. etc.
The vages in Portugal are low but it also does not really make sense for a person to earn much as the taxes grow significantly with the income. That is also why many high potential leave the country or do not taxt their income . A high potential that earns 10k would receive net 4.6k and his company would pay a total of 12.6k with social contributions leaving the state as the big winner with around 8k.
@@IanReid-e9r Portugal is in a vicious cycle. The country invests in their citizens in terms of health care and education just to let the best leave the country, and until last year lure them back with tax discounts just for "new citizens". I think the new government has a good approach by focussing on younger citizens by taking measures to keep them in the country and also attract investors and start ups.
@@frederikpohl5492 Lol, you want to talk about high tax rates with _a swede?_ And it's completely irrelevant to be honest, there's a ton of wealthy countries with much higher tax rates than Portugal. And €10k/month in Portugal is an astronomical wage anyway.
@@oyuyuy if you pay high taxes on high salaries (Sweden Average 3,400 Euros) you still have money left but in Portugal the high rate already kicks in with 2500 gross. 10k is a lot of money but people that earn this kind of money (in Silikon Valley you would be poor with such an income) also bring jobs and pay taxes on their companies.
I think the government could open the golden visa to investors who purchase old properties in the cities with at least three apartments, renovate them and rent for "accessible prices" regulated by the government. The "accessible prices" however are from my point of view also not so "accessible as the government thinks.
I think the regulations to restore some abandoned ruins are also kinda too restrictive. Its hard to get some camaras to agree with a simple but modern project. Also, many foreigners would love to come to Portugal and live in more remote areas, which would only positively influence the availability of houses, but you can't legally buy some farm land and build a house to homestead on it. (Exceptions may apply)
Here are some of my views on this subject: a) until quite recently our population was actually slightly declining. It is easy not to have a housing crisis when your population is declining, right? b) Alojamento Local is definitely not the culprit. Actually AL has contributed to the restoration of thousands of previously derelict buildings. You should've come here in 1999 and visited the areas of old Lisbon that are now so trendy and "cute". Huge chunks of them were then dilapidated, full of empty buildings and quite shoddy. AL didn't ruin those areas, it revived them (some were quasi-slums) and turned them into money makers. A huge part of AL is made up of buildings that weren't even rented out before AL existed c) this idea that the Portuguese are having great difficulty renting a house is a bit weird because the Portuguese aren't very interested in renting to start with, they are interested in buying. Traditionally the Portuguese don't rent, they buy. For the PT the problem is that house prices have gone up, making it difficult for them to buy a house. The high rents is mostly a foreigners' problem. Portugal has traditionally had a low share of rentals, and one of the highest rates of house ownership in Europe. Rental wasn't that widespread until foreigners started renting en masse d) You could argue that we've had wave after wave of immigrants coming here since the late 1990s/early2000s. That's true but 1) total population numbers still weren't going up 2) the immigrants were overwhelmingly poor (Brazilians, Cape Verdeans, Angolans, Ukrainians, Romanians, Moldovans), now the mix is getting wealthier e) one thing that no one ever mentions is that even with the high rents the business of renting is actually not that attractive to landlords. 'WHAT?!? You gota be kidding' I can hear people saying Let me explain. The two apartments that I rent out (for rent values that some people might consider too high) produce a return on investment of around 3% to 4% net annually (after all taxes and expenses). Not brilliant considering inflation numbers is it? If you think I'm lying then how do you explain that the (previous) government has invited the "Fundo de Reserva da Segurança Social" to invest in apartment buildings for controlled rent and the STATE FUND declined, saying the return on investment ratio was too low and it couldn't put money into that line of business without endangering the pension fund? And the State fund doesn't pay taxes... People tend to refer to landlords as if they were greedy vultures, but when the State funds do the math they conclude the business isn't worth it... Interesting, isn't it? That same State fund has just announced that it has earned 9.1% on its investments in 2023, so it is understandable that they are not interested in the PT rental market.
Absolutely! Your explanation is spot on. I can understand the struggle of people trying to buy or rent with a minimum wage but blaming landlords or AL - which apart from the benefits you've mentioned also created a lot of jobs, directly and indirectly - is not really solving any problems. The last part of your text explains it perfectly. If housing is a priority - which should be - create a tax system that stimulates both private and public investors to rent should be the right way to deal with the problem. Do not blame the guy that bought an apartment and is renting it at market price or even below, still too high for a salary of 900€/month. That guy also has bills to pay like everyone else. The funny thing in Portugal is, if you take your money and buy a big fat car or enjoy great vacations you're admired, you are "enjoying life" (no one will question your choices). If you take that some money and invest it in a property creating the obvious advantages for the economy, you are most likely a big son of a b***. Amazing way of thinking! (Btw, I think buying cars or make dream vacations is great, it's the comparison that's totally fascinating!)
The total population was increasing along the 90s and 2000s. It only declined during and imediately after the "troika" period (first half of 2010s). But what really matters for housing is the number of families, and this one never ceased to increase, not justo because of imigration. Other demographic factors such as divorced rates and ageing population/increased life expectancy (many more elderly living alone) also played a role.
Really interesting insight. So you reckon what really needs to happen is get the productivity and wages up to the levels we see in Northern Europe? Ps. I actually want to move to Portugal but also don’t want to be identified as someone making the “crisis” worse. It’s interesting as to me many Portuguese are qualified but leave for the better paying jobs abroad.
@@RemofRenaissance It is not exactly a crisis-crisis, it is a a "crisis" that is the consequence of a sudden prosperity in some areas. If only all crisis were like this... If you want to come to Portugal feel free to do so, don't get lost in the labyrinthine complexities of "will me moving to Portugal be good or bad for the country".
The housing crisis is the effect of immigration, low salaries and inflation, past government and the new one promised to fix it but just empty promises, we need a change in government
The problem is inherent in the Portuguese housing market as many properties are vacant. Officially a property is NOT vacant if they are private holiday homes; Homes of emigrants or of people displaced for health reasons and professional or professional or training reasons; Houses whose owners are in a social facility such as a nursing home or are providing permanent care as informal carers. That does not make sense at all if there is a housing crisis for you citizens. Blaming imigrants is easy, costs no votes, and deflects attention from the real problems
Thank you for your feedback. Portugal was traditionally a buying market. I came to Portugal in 2004 and renting was for the poor and nobody wanted to live in the centers of Lisbon or Porto. In the past you could also not raise the rents for tenants so home owners left the building empty. For me the main problem ist that you have a very asymmetrical distribution of the houses in Portugal. But it is easier to blame foreigners because you fill the headlines and they do jot vote against you
An interesting analysis. I am from Australia and like all western countries the problem is front and centre there too, despite years of record home construction. There international students and visa migrants are blamed as short term rentals are only a problem in some coastal areas like byron bay. I think this crisis is a result globally of years of low interest rates combined with massive covid era stimulus that has resulted in tonnes of money floating around the world looking for something to invest in. In Australia a big part of the problem is Australians and others speculating on an always rising property market that hasnt seriously stopped growing since the 1980s. Each place has similar problems manifesting differently.
In Portugal the low intersting rate, like in many other countries, caused a real hype buying a property. Which also makes sense. in Portugal however you have now a group "the lost 20%" that do not have any house to use from their family, the connect cope with the rents, also can not purchase a property because their income is to low to pay the credit. If the government installed tax on real estate heritages like in other countries the market woudl become much more felxible as many people would decide to sell the heritage instead of leaving it empty
They can solve it by making a high property tax and taking away or reducing the income tax. Almost all empty houses would get sold or rented. Prices would drop as well so normal workers could afford to buy.
As casas que estão vazias têm dono,casas de emigrantes portugueses, casas de herdeiros,casas de pessoas idosas que moram com os seus filhos,em instituições, casas de férias, e ninguém é obrigado aarrendar o que é seu, e Portugal não é só Lisboa, e porque razão vamos arrendar uma casa e depois não podemos despejar quem deixa de pagar a renda? Não existe um problema de habitação mas sim um problema de imigração ilegal,a culpa não é de quem tem possibilidade de comprar ou arrendar
@@saragomes6242Calada era uma poeta. Muito fácil culpar os imigrantes quando os números mostram que a culpa é de vocês! Um governo retrogrado que não facilita a construção e muito menos fornece infraestrutura, para além de só saberem taxar tudo e do outro lado a população local a dar sempre um jeitinho de fugir dos impostos. E claro que não deve ser obrigado a nada, é por isso que tem tantas ruínas a feder umidade no centro das ‘grandes’ cidades. Enquanto os donos vão viver em UK, Irlanda, França, Países Baixos, Suíça, etc. Aguarde mais uma década e verá o que será de Portugal se continuar com essas politicas.
My parents have a business in Porttugal, there really isnt a shortage of housing at all. Sure in Lisbon, Porto and the Algarve. But you go inland and to the north, and there are whole abandoned villages. Its the same story as supposed housing shortages everywhere, there are plenty of houses, plenty of space, but demand in the major metropoles is very high. Well, you choose to want to live there.
That’s inaccurate; you can quickly check Idealista to see that house prices have skyrocketed even in small villages. A property priced at €90,000 now sells for over €150,000, even in the same condition. The only correct point is regarding the shortage, which can be confirmed by looking at the number of empty houses for sale rather than those available for rent.
@@natansouza4295Stupid point. those are price raises in high demand areas. Go to tras os montes. You can buy houes there for basically scrap prices. Half of what you pay in Lisbon or less. And thats because no one wants to live there,
@@FaustsKanaal I wasn’t even talking about Lisbon, Porto, or Braga. Tell me the prices for houses in Covilhã, Guarda, Castelo Branco, Viana do Castelo, Vila Real, Mirandela, Bragança now and 3 years ago. And also provide information about job offers over those places there will be no surprise that there are almost none. So if there is no job, why would someone buy and live there? Unless you are talking about people retiring.
@@FaustsKanaal Furthermore, even in Lisbon, Porto, and Braga, there are many apartments to sell, so this argument of high demand is stupid. I see an uncontrolled market with homeowners trying to get the most out of it. And guess who is buying-the emigrants and investors from the US, UK, Switzerland, etc.
I think because Portugal like more to use the land as agriculture. But dwelling can, old houses, farmland. Portugal like to keep in more nature living lifestyle. Like it, I come from busy,modern,life. No need big,big housings investors.
It's not just housing that's absurdly expensive, it's everything else too. Portugal has first world prices and third world wages.
The living costs and housing prices in my country (Sweden) is very similar to that of Portugal, the difference is that our income is 2-3 times higher.
My guess is that the economy as a whole is disfunctional. Low productivity, low technology, low paying jobs, poor education, poor infrastructure etc. etc.
Agree, they are suffering from brain drain because all the young educated ones are leaving for other countries.
The vages in Portugal are low but it also does not really make sense for a person to earn much as the taxes grow significantly with the income. That is also why many high potential leave the country or do not taxt their income . A high potential that earns 10k would receive net 4.6k and his company would pay a total of 12.6k with social contributions leaving the state as the big winner with around 8k.
@@IanReid-e9r Portugal is in a vicious cycle. The country invests in their citizens in terms of health care and education just to let the best leave the country, and until last year lure them back with tax discounts just for "new citizens". I think the new government has a good approach by focussing on younger citizens by taking measures to keep them in the country and also attract investors and start ups.
@@frederikpohl5492 Lol, you want to talk about high tax rates with _a swede?_
And it's completely irrelevant to be honest, there's a ton of wealthy countries with much higher tax rates than Portugal. And €10k/month in Portugal is an astronomical wage anyway.
@@oyuyuy if you pay high taxes on high salaries (Sweden Average 3,400 Euros) you still have money left but in Portugal the high rate already kicks in with 2500 gross. 10k is a lot of money but people that earn this kind of money (in Silikon Valley you would be poor with such an income) also bring jobs and pay taxes on their companies.
Why no one talks about investment funds? They are buying full buildings and a lot of times they are kept empty.
I think the government could open the golden visa to investors who purchase old properties in the cities with at least three apartments, renovate them and rent for "accessible prices" regulated by the government. The "accessible prices" however are from my point of view also not so "accessible as the government thinks.
The issue are speculators.
Quais especuladores? Quem tem capacidade de comprar ou arrendar,ou é a imigração ilegal?
@@saragomes6242 Fundos de investimento imobiliário, imobiliárias a fazer de scalper... Muitas opções.
I think the regulations to restore some abandoned ruins are also kinda too restrictive.
Its hard to get some camaras to agree with a simple but modern project.
Also, many foreigners would love to come to Portugal and live in more remote areas, which would only positively influence the availability of houses, but you can't legally buy some farm land and build a house to homestead on it. (Exceptions may apply)
The law will even be more flexible allowing to construct normal living properties on rural ground
Here are some of my views on this subject:
a) until quite recently our population was actually slightly declining. It is easy not to have a housing crisis when your population is declining, right?
b) Alojamento Local is definitely not the culprit. Actually AL has contributed to the restoration of thousands of previously derelict buildings. You should've come here in 1999 and visited the areas of old Lisbon that are now so trendy and "cute". Huge chunks of them were then dilapidated, full of empty buildings and quite shoddy. AL didn't ruin those areas, it revived them (some were quasi-slums) and turned them into money makers. A huge part of AL is made up of buildings that weren't even rented out before AL existed
c) this idea that the Portuguese are having great difficulty renting a house is a bit weird because the Portuguese aren't very interested in renting to start with, they are interested in buying. Traditionally the Portuguese don't rent, they buy. For the PT the problem is that house prices have gone up, making it difficult for them to buy a house. The high rents is mostly a foreigners' problem. Portugal has traditionally had a low share of rentals, and one of the highest rates of house ownership in Europe. Rental wasn't that widespread until foreigners started renting en masse
d) You could argue that we've had wave after wave of immigrants coming here since the late 1990s/early2000s. That's true but 1) total population numbers still weren't going up 2) the immigrants were overwhelmingly poor (Brazilians, Cape Verdeans, Angolans, Ukrainians, Romanians, Moldovans), now the mix is getting wealthier
e) one thing that no one ever mentions is that even with the high rents the business of renting is actually not that attractive to landlords.
'WHAT?!? You gota be kidding' I can hear people saying
Let me explain.
The two apartments that I rent out (for rent values that some people might consider too high) produce a return on investment of around 3% to 4% net annually (after all taxes and expenses). Not brilliant considering inflation numbers is it?
If you think I'm lying then how do you explain that the (previous) government has invited the "Fundo de Reserva da Segurança Social" to invest in apartment buildings for controlled rent and the STATE FUND declined, saying the return on investment ratio was too low and it couldn't put money into that line of business without endangering the pension fund? And the State fund doesn't pay taxes...
People tend to refer to landlords as if they were greedy vultures, but when the State funds do the math they conclude the business isn't worth it... Interesting, isn't it?
That same State fund has just announced that it has earned 9.1% on its investments in 2023, so it is understandable that they are not interested in the PT rental market.
Absolutely! Your explanation is spot on.
I can understand the struggle of people trying to buy or rent with a minimum wage but blaming landlords or AL - which apart from the benefits you've mentioned also created a lot of jobs, directly and indirectly - is not really solving any problems.
The last part of your text explains it perfectly. If housing is a priority - which should be - create a tax system that stimulates both private and public investors to rent should be the right way to deal with the problem.
Do not blame the guy that bought an apartment and is renting it at market price or even below, still too high for a salary of 900€/month. That guy also has bills to pay like everyone else. The funny thing in Portugal is, if you take your money and buy a big fat car or enjoy great vacations you're admired, you are "enjoying life" (no one will question your choices). If you take that some money and invest it in a property creating the obvious advantages for the economy, you are most likely a big son of a b***. Amazing way of thinking! (Btw, I think buying cars or make dream vacations is great, it's the comparison that's totally fascinating!)
The total population was increasing along the 90s and 2000s. It only declined during and imediately after the "troika" period (first half of 2010s). But what really matters for housing is the number of families, and this one never ceased to increase, not justo because of imigration. Other demographic factors such as divorced rates and ageing population/increased life expectancy (many more elderly living alone) also played a role.
@@Mpl3564 Interesting points.
Really interesting insight. So you reckon what really needs to happen is get the productivity and wages up to the levels we see in Northern Europe?
Ps. I actually want to move to Portugal but also don’t want to be identified as someone making the “crisis” worse. It’s interesting as to me many Portuguese are qualified but leave for the better paying jobs abroad.
@@RemofRenaissance It is not exactly a crisis-crisis, it is a a "crisis" that is the consequence of a sudden prosperity in some areas. If only all crisis were like this... If you want to come to Portugal feel free to do so, don't get lost in the labyrinthine complexities of "will me moving to Portugal be good or bad for the country".
u should sight sources for the data u used - how does audience know these are legitimate numbers?
We left the references in the description
The housing crisis is the effect of immigration, low salaries and inflation, past government and the new one promised to fix it but just empty promises, we need a change in government
The problem is inherent in the Portuguese housing market as many properties are vacant. Officially a property is NOT vacant if they are private holiday homes; Homes of emigrants or of people displaced for health reasons and professional or professional or training reasons; Houses whose owners are in a social facility such as a nursing home or are providing permanent care as informal carers. That does not make sense at all if there is a housing crisis for you citizens. Blaming imigrants is easy, costs no votes, and deflects attention from the real problems
It's interesting that you're calling Russian war in Ukraine "Ukrainian crisis". :|
Well the crisis is definetely in the Ukraine and not in Russia