i only get 30 decent shots out of the discovery. but mine is setup to shoot 15.9g jsb at 24FPE giving me a power curve around 825FPS. my discovery was tuned and it never lets me down im always pleased when i pull the trigger.
it's awesome.my rifle's valve assembly is different from what is shown in the benjamin discovery parts list manual.Crosman is proud to advertise this rifle to be...MADE IN THE U.S OF A.
@pyramydair i'm using hpa.before i was using several brands of pellet(2,000rounds) but settled for crosman.additional info, i put wd40 after cleaning with hoppe's no.9 to prevent rust.applied several patches to remove the traces of oil in it.i checked the smoothness of the barrel by passing a pellet through it but found no problem.i was so puzzled since i did not changed anything.
Thank you very much for the video's on this and the Marauder. They were very informative. I actually watched them, unlike many I hit skip during the videos. I am on the fence, though admit the hefty price difference is swaying me towards the Discovery. I would need a supressor ss I plan to shoot in my backyard in a subdivision. Do the supressors make a BIG difference in the noise my neighbors will hear ?
I'm working with the US Consumer Product Safety Commision cause of the faulty safety. They already had a Big recall of 2400 guns for some other incident.
Hi guys. Great stuff you have here. Please keep it coming! I would like to know if the co2 fps is different than hpa? If so by how much? I ask because im looking to buy my first pcp and this is #1 on my list. Thanks in advance.
@pyramydair Well the pyramydair site quotes the muzzle energy of the Discovery at about 23 ft/lbs and since the .20 caliber Beeman is achieving just under 16 or so ft/lbs i thought the .22 would not be too much higher. Correct me if I'm wrong
Some issues wioth mine out of the box, but accuracy was not one of them. Get it all settled and I am thinking minute of squirrels ear at 50 yards. Crosman Premier HP was not the most accurate in mine unlike most folks, but the round point just stacked up one after another.JSB exact Jumbo 15.89 is what it is delivering right now.
this review is helping me alot. thanks paul... but what i don't get is that i think i've heard the information that the discovery doesn't do more than 20 shots per fill with hpa, how is it possible that u get way more than that...pliz help!
I am tinking about buying one of these, i was wondering if the air tanked leaked any over time, and if you could leave this gun fully pumped for a couple of hours like you can with a nitro pistion. Thanks
@pyramydair Thanks for the info. I picked him up the Discovery from Pyramyd. As always, excellent service. It fits him just fine. A VERY loud rifle!!!!! I picked him up a muzzle brake. Hope that helps. A great rifle though for sure.
Pyramyd... Looking to upgrade my 9 year old son to this rifle from his Crosman Raven. I own the Marauder and love it. How is the length of pull on the stock for the Discovery? I think he would need something a bit shorter than the Marauder. Any assistance would be great! Thanks in advance...
I am thinking along the lines of 20 - 50 yards. The thing is i live outside of the us and will be buying to take back home. I dont want to spend 500+ on a gun and accessories and after a few months i have to find some way to send back for repair. Which is more powerful?? ft/lbs
I am torn between getting a discovery and and the rws 48/52. I know most people will say the discovery blows the socks off the rws but there is just something about the rws the intrigues me that i cannot yet put my finger on. What about durability and likeliness or breakdown????
How would you compare the R9 to the Benjamin Discovery PCP with regards to small game hunting?? I am thinking about how the increased ft/lbs of the discovery translates to knockdown power
ok is that just because of how it condenses and in michigan we cant have our airguns shipped to use if tried ordering from pyramidair before and thats when i learn but could we have it shipped to a FFL like a rifle or handgun?
Give Randy at R&L Airgun Supply a call,he won't charge you a penny to shoot and test YOUR gun.I just ordered a AirForce Talon ss and he set the gun up and made sure that it was shooting great at NO extra cost to me.Like Randy said to me,he has no idea why a company would charge you to shoot YOUR gun.Randy takes interest in all his customers,you are not just another number to him.Can you tell I am VERY happy with R&L Airgun Supply!!!
hi paul.i just wanna ask why my discovery .22's accuracy has changed.when i received my unit it shoots pretty well(one whole) with benjamin discovery pellets and crosman premier hp at 20m(using grip for barrel testing).when i reached 2,000 shots my disco no longer shoot good groupings at 20m.so i cleaned up my barrel using hoppe's no.9 and i found out there was a lot of lead.after cleaning it, i tried barrel testing at 20m but groupings showed no good(3/4'-1').do you have idea on this?
IM THINKING ABOUT BUYING A HATSAN .25 LOOKIN FOR A REVIEW WORTH WATCHING HOPEING YOU HAD ONE BUT I DONT SEE IT WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO A REVIEW ON THE HATSAN 125 .25
hi paul my discovery looks like its leaking.i filled it with 2000psi hpa and i noticed the gauge moved to 1,800psi after 5 days without use.what do you think?now, i need to know the exact sizes of the o-rings inside which might need to be replaced.thanks.
When you do your sound test, why don't you do it outside so you don't have room echo going the meter also? You would get a much more truthful test test that way. But thankls for the video, it was very informative.
you are right.slow leaking of air is noted.anyway, there are lots of U.S made o-rings around here.i will bring my rifle to a gunsmith for repair because there's no accredited crosman repair shop in our country.thanks.
@pyramydair is there any air gun that comes with a pump that is a repeater for around 400? if not how much would just a pump cost. i really don't want 2 spend 200 on a pump. ty
@pyramydair i have already found the solution.it only needs re-leading of the barrel.i shoot 30-50 rounds (after cleaning for lead) to get back its accuracy.now i know the character of my barrel.its not accurate with a very clean barrel.i just discovered this accuracy problem when i cleaned the barrel for lead(2,000 rounds).thanks to other forums here in youtube.and also the kindness of pyramyd air team.
Hey guys, I have quite the question and I'm hoping someone can help me! I will be purchasing a 22 caliber discovery soon and am hunting around for the optimum pellet grain to use (I intend to hunt rabbit, and like-sized small game). I realize that there is a point after which a heavier pellet does no additional good on a given power plant, so I suppose that's my first q: What is the heaviest pellet I can use on a disco while maintaining enough velocity for a clean kill (bc I was itching to try the 30 grain H&N Piledrivers or the H&N Rabbit Magnum II @ 24.90 some grain)? My 2nd question is, alternatively what is a good standard average grain pellet for the powerplant in the disco as my lighter grain or everyday pellet (as I would like to have this "standard" or lighter pellet for velocity and a much heavier albeit effective pellet)?
PDG 21 grainer was most accurate close up, 25 yards, but is starting to be unstable at 50, probably starting to slow down too much. Most of a 500 tin of JSB EXACT JUMBOS 15.89s have gone through it and have performed admirably.Seems to like the JUMBO HEAY 18.13 too tough I have not tested them at 50. RWS Superdome 14.5 are ok close up and untested at any distance
sisas parcero, yo tengo un Air Arms TX200 y un Airforce Talon y me entraron sin problemas, pero a un companero que pidio un Ruger AirHawke se lo detubieron porque tiene que tener un permiso de Indumil para importar armas (cualquier tipo de arma sea de AIRE o de FUEGO NO IMPORTA) SI se arriesga puede que se le quede en la Aduana y creame, no es por ser pesimista, pero el rifle no se lo regresan.
hello, i want to purchase a benjamin marauder in 22. cal, i live in colombia, the shipping charge is of 207 dollars, but my question is, does it include the taxes the rifle has to pay here?
No, it's a different type of fitting. That was intentional on SodaStream's part, as regular paintball tanks work just fine on the SodaStream with an adapter. You can get a good paintball tank from amazon for ~$20-25, and it costs ~$3 to fill at a sporting goods shop. Pyramid air sells tanks, and they can fill them, but it's a pain in the ass to ship any liquid high-pressure gas.
wake up crosman!you are selling this rifle in the international market.in fact, this is 2x the price($399) here in the philippines.you ought to us the quality we expect from you.
Joe Roberts. Trust me when I say don't waist your hard earned money on a Hatsan. I went through hell with that cheap company. Yes they are powerful guns but thats where it ends. They gave me three junk guns in a row, #1 had bent barrel, #2 the safety made it discharge, #3 horribly inaccurate.
@ pyramyd air ...really ??? 40 to 50 good shot on hpa ??? noway ... i get 20 max on hpa .. thats from 2000 psi to 1000 psi.. you must be shooting a different benjamin disco than mine.. please explain ....
however ,whoever, & whatever ya did to that disco is amazeing. id like that mod immediately please. im an average shmuck getting 18 shots and really sick of pumping. lol this is a fluke.
This is either very misleading or something is terribly wrong with Crosman quality control. If you check the air gun boards nobody gets more than 12-18 shots from hpa per fill. I'm very disappointed because this devalues your reviews and I've always enjoyed them. I expect that you would be reviewing an untuned rifle or at least let us know that you aren't. Perhaps you can explain the discrepancy in shot count on hpa between what you got and what the rest of us get.
+TheRagingChild 2 Did you watch the video? He does both CO2 and HPA in this video. On his test for HPA, he gets 45 shots before the power starts to decrease.
How are you getting so many shots? They say the Discovery's from 2014 are only getting 10-15 good shots on air. Something doesn't add up and the video seems very misleading. I was basing my purchasing decision on the incredible shot count but now I'm not sure. Please do all new buyers a favor and explain how you got those incredible shot counts with a stock gun. If something has changed with the gun please re-review or explain.
What you're seeing is partial valve lock. The valve is only partially opening, which is why he's getting so many shots, but also why the velocity seems ridiculously low. It's a defective valve. This review should have never hit the air. You're also going to typically get more shots on CO2 than HPA. The shot strings (useful) should be in the mid-20's.
Ike Evens I can assure you that you wont get more than 18-20 powerful shots out of the Disco in stock form with HPA, but those 18-20 shots will be +20 ft lb of power with most pellets. That's between 2100PSI to 1000PSI = 18-20 Powerful Shots with HPA. I only tested once with Co2 and got around 37-40 shots between 1000PSI to 100-50PSI. The AGR had a faulty Disco valve because: A) The power was ridiculously low for a Disco. B) They got incredible shot count that even surpasses the Marauder which should give them a Hint something was wrong.
How would you compare the R9 to the Benjamin Discovery PCP with regards to small game hunting?? I am thinking about how the increased ft/lbs of the discovery translates to knockdown power
i only get 30 decent shots out of the discovery. but mine is setup to shoot 15.9g jsb at 24FPE giving me a power curve around 825FPS. my discovery was tuned and it never lets me down im always pleased when i pull the trigger.
it's awesome.my rifle's valve assembly is different from what is shown in the benjamin discovery parts list manual.Crosman is proud to advertise this rifle to be...MADE IN THE U.S OF A.
@pyramydair i'm using hpa.before i was using several brands of pellet(2,000rounds) but settled for crosman.additional info, i put wd40 after cleaning with hoppe's no.9 to prevent rust.applied several patches to remove the traces of oil in it.i checked the smoothness of the barrel by passing a pellet through it but found no problem.i was so puzzled since i did not changed anything.
Thank you so much. You have been a great help in helping me make my decision.
One Love
Thank you very much for the video's on this and the Marauder. They were very informative. I actually watched them, unlike many I hit skip during the videos.
I am on the fence, though admit the hefty price difference is swaying me towards the Discovery.
I would need a supressor ss I plan to shoot in my backyard in a subdivision. Do the supressors make a BIG difference in the noise my neighbors will hear ?
I'm working with the US Consumer Product Safety Commision cause of the faulty safety. They already had a Big recall of 2400 guns for some other incident.
Hi guys. Great stuff you have here. Please keep it coming! I would like to know if the co2 fps is different than hpa? If so by how much? I ask because im looking to buy my first pcp and this is #1 on my list. Thanks in advance.
@pyramydair Well the pyramydair site quotes the muzzle energy of the Discovery at about 23 ft/lbs and since the .20 caliber Beeman is achieving just under 16 or so ft/lbs i thought the .22 would not be too much higher. Correct me if I'm wrong
Some issues wioth mine out of the box, but accuracy was not one of them.
Get it all settled and I am thinking minute of squirrels ear at 50 yards.
Crosman Premier HP was not the most accurate in mine unlike most folks, but the round point just stacked up one after another.JSB exact Jumbo 15.89 is what it is delivering right now.
this review is helping me alot. thanks paul...
but what i don't get is that i think i've heard the information that the discovery doesn't do more than 20 shots per fill with hpa, how is it possible that u get way more than that...pliz help!
He's using co2
That's a lot of shooting. How long did that take? How loud is the Discovery with High Pressure air and CO2?
I am tinking about buying one of these, i was wondering if the air tanked leaked any over time, and if you could leave this gun fully pumped for a couple of hours like you can with a nitro pistion. Thanks
@pyramydair Thanks for the info. I picked him up the Discovery from Pyramyd. As always, excellent service. It fits him just fine. A VERY loud rifle!!!!! I picked him up a muzzle brake. Hope that helps. A great rifle though for sure.
What about the chrony test on HPA?
Pyramyd... Looking to upgrade my 9 year old son to this rifle from his Crosman Raven. I own the Marauder and love it. How is the length of pull on the stock for the Discovery? I think he would need something a bit shorter than the Marauder. Any assistance would be great! Thanks in advance...
@pyramydair i detached the barrel for cleaning.only the barrel is cleaned with hoppe's no.9 and wd40.never on seals and o-rings.
I am thinking along the lines of 20 - 50 yards. The thing is i live outside of the us and will be buying to take back home. I dont want to spend 500+ on a gun and accessories and after a few months i have to find some way to send back for repair.
Which is more powerful?? ft/lbs
You should post a video on how to install a bipod. What do I need to do this?
I am torn between getting a discovery and and the rws 48/52. I know most people will say the discovery blows the socks off the rws but there is just something about the rws the intrigues me that i cannot yet put my finger on.
What about durability and likeliness or breakdown????
How would you compare the R9 to the Benjamin Discovery PCP with regards to small game hunting?? I am thinking about how the increased ft/lbs of the discovery translates to knockdown power
ok is that just because of how it condenses and in michigan we cant have our airguns shipped to use if tried ordering from pyramidair before and thats when i learn but could we have it shipped to a FFL like a rifle or handgun?
@paul...correction its 3/4"-1".not 3/4'-1'
Give Randy at R&L Airgun Supply a call,he won't charge you a penny to shoot and test YOUR gun.I just ordered a AirForce Talon ss and he set the gun up and made sure that it was shooting great at NO extra cost to me.Like Randy said to me,he has no idea why a company would charge you to shoot YOUR gun.Randy takes interest in all his customers,you are not just another number to him.Can you tell I am VERY happy with R&L Airgun Supply!!!
I noticed in your video...you took the gun over to an air compressor. What type compressor did you use? I thought you needed a tank or pump?
so if you get 45-60 good shots from discovery,what would be the average with the marauder on co2 since the resevoir is bigger?
I love this vid thanks for making it.
Which one is better for hunting (squirrels,crows, or rabbits) The benjamin mardaur or the benjamin discovery?
how well would this work for winter squirrel hunting?
hi paul.i just wanna ask why my discovery .22's accuracy has changed.when i received my unit it shoots pretty well(one whole) with benjamin discovery pellets and crosman premier hp at 20m(using grip for barrel testing).when i reached 2,000 shots my disco no longer shoot good groupings at 20m.so i cleaned up my barrel using hoppe's no.9 and i found out there was a lot of lead.after cleaning it, i tried barrel testing at 20m but groupings showed no good(3/4'-1').do you have idea on this?
IM THINKING ABOUT BUYING A HATSAN .25 LOOKIN FOR A REVIEW WORTH WATCHING HOPEING YOU HAD ONE BUT I DONT SEE IT WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO A REVIEW ON THE HATSAN 125 .25
@pyramydair Thanks a lot!
hi paul
my discovery looks like its leaking.i filled it with 2000psi hpa and i noticed the gauge moved to 1,800psi after 5 days without use.what do you think?now, i need to know the exact sizes of the o-rings inside which might need to be replaced.thanks.
When you do your sound test, why don't you do it outside so you don't have room echo going the meter also? You would get a much more truthful test test that way. But thankls for the video, it was very informative.
you are right.slow leaking of air is noted.anyway, there are lots of U.S made o-rings around here.i will bring my rifle to a gunsmith for repair because there's no accredited crosman repair shop in our country.thanks.
Ive noticed the Barrel Band has been moved from its factory position on the rifle Paul is shootiing in this review. Why is that???
when u buy this this product do u need to buyy anything seperate to attach the pump to the rifle?
@pyramydair is there any air gun that comes with a pump that is a repeater for around 400? if not how much would just a pump cost. i really don't want 2 spend 200 on a pump. ty
What pellet would be best for the .22 cal disco., the JSB 15.8 grain (domed), or the JSB 18.1 grain (domed)?
is it same factory producer betwen Benjamin Franklin air riffle and Benjamin Discovery?I have Benjamin Franklin one.
i'm from the philippines and i don't have to order these parts from crosman.the parts listed in their manual are the order part number.
@pyramydair i have already found the solution.it only needs re-leading of the barrel.i shoot 30-50 rounds (after cleaning for lead) to get back its accuracy.now i know the character of my barrel.its not accurate with a very clean barrel.i just discovered this accuracy problem when i cleaned the barrel for lead(2,000 rounds).thanks to other forums here in youtube.and also the kindness of pyramyd air team.
Hi I was wondering what kind of air compressor you were using.
how many fills did you get from the 88gr tank ?
Mike
Hey guys, I have quite the question and I'm hoping someone can help me! I will be purchasing a 22 caliber discovery soon and am hunting around for the optimum pellet grain to use (I intend to hunt rabbit, and like-sized small game). I realize that there is a point after which a heavier pellet does no additional good on a given power plant, so I suppose that's my first q: What is the heaviest pellet I can use on a disco while maintaining enough velocity for a clean kill (bc I was itching to try the 30 grain H&N Piledrivers or the H&N Rabbit Magnum II @ 24.90 some grain)? My 2nd question is, alternatively what is a good standard average grain pellet for the powerplant in the disco as my lighter grain or everyday pellet (as I would like to have this "standard" or lighter pellet for velocity and a much heavier albeit effective pellet)?
what would happen it air and the co2 were to mix? would the rifle not function properly?
so is the discovery and benjamin 392 have relatively the same speed????
can you please tell me how loud it is compared to a .22 rifle and how to make it quieter
does it get higher velocity with high pressure air
Hey Paul is a magazine for this gun
hi any idea about the difference between crosman premier hp and benjamin discovery hp pellets?
PDG 21 grainer was most accurate close up, 25 yards, but is starting to be unstable at 50, probably starting to slow down too much.
Most of a 500 tin of JSB EXACT JUMBOS 15.89s have gone through it and have performed admirably.Seems to like the JUMBO HEAY 18.13 too tough I have not tested them at 50.
RWS Superdome 14.5 are ok close up and untested at any distance
Is it posssible to mount a bipod on this rifle?
sisas parcero, yo tengo un Air Arms TX200 y un Airforce Talon y me entraron sin problemas, pero a un companero que pidio un Ruger AirHawke se lo detubieron porque tiene que tener un permiso de Indumil para importar armas (cualquier tipo de arma sea de AIRE o de FUEGO NO IMPORTA) SI se arriesga puede que se le quede en la Aduana y creame, no es por ser pesimista, pero el rifle no se lo regresan.
hello, i want to purchase a benjamin marauder in 22. cal, i live in colombia, the shipping charge is of 207 dollars, but my question is, does it include the taxes the rifle has to pay here?
what's the most accurate pellet in this rifle?.22cal i mean.
how far are you shooting from
What would the max effective range be?
will this gun fit a magazine?
how far down range are the targets you shoot?
so the benjamin discovery .22 and the benjamin 392 have about the same velocity??????
hey guys the benjamin discovery or benjamin marauder if i get the marauder ill have to wait a year
Where to buy BD PART 2? How much?
Hi all, can any one tell me what is the max Power adjustment for the 22 cal on this rifle, and how many shots can you get per fill?
Thank you
is this the 22 or the 177
why isn't the first part available? or where is it?
can it be a .22 or does it have to be a .177?
can all pcp rifles be filled with co2?
How many FPS do you get with High Pressured Air?
The benjamin marauder .22 gets 32 shots on a 3000 psi. So,how could the discover get 50 shots on a 2000 psi fill?
co2
RoughXvr Co2 only gets 40 shots Tops. In both cases the shooting count is wayyyyy off.
Hi all, can any one tell me what is the max Power adjustment for the 22 cal, and how many shots can you get per fill?
how do you spell the name of the thing you use to tell the speed? i'm thinking to buy one but i cant spell it.
How much does the discovery weigh?
Can you use the Soda Stream CO2?
No, it's a different type of fitting. That was intentional on SodaStream's part, as regular paintball tanks work just fine on the SodaStream with an adapter. You can get a good paintball tank from amazon for ~$20-25, and it costs ~$3 to fill at a sporting goods shop. Pyramid air sells tanks, and they can fill them, but it's a pain in the ass to ship any liquid high-pressure gas.
@pyramydair So, what ARE the legal reasons for Airgun companies publishing advertised velocity with the lightest pellets? Enlighten me.
hi paul.may i know the internal diameter of benjamin discovery air tube?
Where is part 1
So wheres the first part of this video???
osea como asi?? expliqueme porfa, como no puede pasar la aduana?
the numbers are making me think that its a .177, bc everywhere else I've seen the shot count around 20-30 shots for the .22 variety
why shouldn't you mix high pressure air and co2.
Jesus has it been that long .
wake up crosman!you are selling this rifle in the international market.in fact, this is 2x the price($399) here in the philippines.you ought to us the quality we expect from you.
Is she accurate with the Benjamin Hallow Point?
Joe Roberts. Trust me when I say don't waist your hard earned money on a Hatsan. I went through hell with that cheap company. Yes they are powerful guns but thats where it ends. They gave me three junk guns in a row, #1 had bent barrel, #2 the safety made it discharge, #3 horribly inaccurate.
Really I have one and it works great .
The only airgun I have ever bought that had a problem was a crossman
One made in China I think
no the .22 disco shoots alot faster than the 392 and its alot more powerfull.
@ pyramyd air ...really ??? 40 to 50 good shot on hpa ??? noway ... i get 20 max on hpa .. thats from 2000 psi to 1000 psi.. you must be shooting a different benjamin disco than mine.. please explain ....
co2
RoughXvr *6
however ,whoever, & whatever ya did to that disco is amazeing. id like that mod immediately please. im an average shmuck getting 18 shots and really sick of pumping. lol this is a fluke.
El problema no es ese, el problema es si le pasa la aduana
well then u have a new order coming soon thank you haha
@PCGamesAndMore No.
This is either very misleading or something is terribly wrong with Crosman quality control. If you check the air gun boards nobody gets more than 12-18 shots from hpa per fill. I'm very disappointed because this devalues your reviews and I've always enjoyed them. I expect that you would be reviewing an untuned rifle or at least let us know that you aren't. Perhaps you can explain the discrepancy in shot count on hpa between what you got and what the rest of us get.
He's using co2
+TheRagingChild 2 Did you watch the video? He does both CO2 and HPA in this video. On his test for HPA, he gets 45 shots before the power starts to decrease.
Really? That much co2 came from that line alone? Hmm..
must have chronied the gun using hpa.
How are you getting so many shots? They say the Discovery's from 2014 are only getting 10-15 good shots on air. Something doesn't add up and the video seems very misleading. I was basing my purchasing decision on the incredible shot count but now I'm not sure. Please do all new buyers a favor and explain how you got those incredible shot counts with a stock gun. If something has changed with the gun please re-review or explain.
What you're seeing is partial valve lock. The valve is only partially opening, which is why he's getting so many shots, but also why the velocity seems ridiculously low. It's a defective valve. This review should have never hit the air.
You're also going to typically get more shots on CO2 than HPA. The shot strings (useful) should be in the mid-20's.
Ike Evens
I can assure you that you wont get more than 18-20 powerful shots out of the Disco in stock form with HPA, but those 18-20 shots will be +20 ft lb of power with most pellets. That's between 2100PSI to 1000PSI = 18-20 Powerful Shots with HPA. I only tested once with Co2 and got around 37-40 shots between 1000PSI to 100-50PSI.
The AGR had a faulty Disco valve because:
A) The power was ridiculously low for a Disco.
B) They got incredible shot count that even surpasses the Marauder which should give them a Hint something was wrong.
Do you know any american companies that sell .22cal darts for hunting and easier to trace all i can find is european companies
You have great show I would talk about how cool airforce guns Are I will miss crystal just because she is so good looking and she is hot
A single shot in the 21st. century NO THANKS.
RANGE!! RANGE!!. FAIL! Change your papers.. Prove it.
How would you compare the R9 to the Benjamin Discovery PCP with regards to small game hunting?? I am thinking about how the increased ft/lbs of the discovery translates to knockdown power
How many shots per fill can you get in the .177 ?