Couple tips if they havent been shared (i frequently purchase collections like this): 1. If you buy collections of this value get a jewelers loupe, and spot test multiple cards of ranging sets and values 2. Gather a set of older cards that are minimal value for comparison (IE: Tempest, Stronghold, Legends, The Dark, etc.) Its great to have a real comparison on hand for deals like this 3. Meet somewhere where you can validate the legitimacy of the cards. Well lit area, place to sit, set 30 minutes aside. The more knowledgeable you are,the less intrusive it seems as you can spread awareness/educate the seller as you go along, explain what you are checking and why, so its not awkward when you do identify a fake as you will have explained why you have taken that stance. Better luck next time. Its happened to all of us, hope that it works out better in the future!
I'm very sorry for you. This is terrible to happen to anybody and exactly why I push for the community to push BACK against all counterfeits. Proxies are not counterfeits.... Proxies are obviously not real. Counterfeits try to appear real.
yea absolutly! i just ordered some proxy that look very much like the real deal on the front but on the back it says "Proxymaster" and "Magic the Proxy" and i think thats totaly okay
This really sucks man. I remember getting scammed and stolen from in my early days as a kid first playing the game. Even people I used to go to FNM would regularly steal from my binders. I hate these people within the community, and that feeling of being deceived is awful. Took a while, a move, and a different LGS to get my confidence back. Sorry this happened to you man
If it wasn't for the way too rare cards in there I even would've given them the benefit of the doubt and believed that it might've been them who got scammed when they originally acquired the cards. That just goes to show how well executed this scam was. Really can't blame anyone for falling for it.
Really appreciate you sharing, Dave! This video probably hurt to make, but it’s an asset for the education of the honest magic players out there. Been enjoying lots of your videos lately! 👍 Happy new subscriber! 👍
This is why I always bring a loupe to any in person sale that I do. Just recently saved me from 3k on a fake mishras workshop. These fake card sellers always have stories about where they got the cards and how long theyve been playing and all that to try and legitimize themselves so that is also a red flag in of its self if they are trying too hard to make it seem real before or during the sale. I explicitly tell everyone before meetup that I will be bringing a loupe and doing multiple tests on the cards im picking up and some people still try to sell fakes to you and act dumb once you tell them the card is fake. Hell, they still try to legitimize the cards after telling them its fake, trying to say the inconsistencies must be printing errors lol. This is why you should never trust anybody until you can test the cards. Big lesson here is to buy a microscope or loupe and test all or most of any high value cards before proceeding. If they want you to bring cash then always leave it in the car hidden until you are sure. I usually tell them i do not bring cash before going and that we will go to the bank once everything checks out. And bring someone else if you can. If you cant then let people know where you are once you park and give them a timeframe of 10-20 minutes that if you do not call them in that amount of time, have them try to call you. If you do not answer then tell them beforehand to have police sent to the area of the sale. You can also just keep them on call with your phone in your pocket as well. its best to be safe as there are some crazy people out there who will do just about anything for a few grand and these tips will help you to buy with confidence.
Lol, I have a counterfeit mishra's workshop. I believe it is counterfeit, it came as packaging for a 5€ card I bought, could you imagine if it was real? Lol, deal of my life
amazing how positive you remain in the face of this huge loss of money and trust, i absolutely respect how this whole ordeal didnt get you down enough to not see any upsides to it
The brown oval on the back is darker than the real card you put up. Typically with fakes the feel is noticeable too. Im so sorry this happened to you man. I own lots of expensive real cards and lots of proxies/fakes. The fakes are getting so good its harder and harder to tell. Buyers beware
It’s also important to keep in mind some sets (ice age is the biggest example I can think of) have miscolored backs in general so you really gotta check the print patterns and thickness/texture
That's rough. Thanks for sharing! I purchased my first counterfeit card off of TCG player a few months ago. I was a little suspicious at first when I got the card and later, after a lot of research, I determined it was indeed a fake. Through the buyer protection program, I was able to get my money back. This prompted me to purchase a jeweler's loupe so whenever I purchase singles, I can hopefully identify a fake a bit easier.
@@Its109TheGamer I wouldn't worry too much. I have made 72 transactions over the past 2 years for several hundred cards, and only had the one bad experience. I give credit to TCGPlayer for their customer service, they are pretty quick to take care of anything you suspect might not be legit. (Well were in my case) It did prompt me to pick up a jeweler's loupe. They're pretty cheap on Amazon. If anything seems a bit off, I give the card a good once over with the loupe.
Bless your optimism at the end. This video broke my heart, you seem like such a good dude and I hate that this sort of thing goes on in our community. Hopefully this was something you were able to bounce back from and only made you more resilient.
Sorry for your loss Dave, thank you for the continued content. In my opinion you've flipped the bad carma from this jerk into good carma by making the community laugh & smile.
That sucks man, but ANYONE can be scammed, thanks for staying positive. At least some good will come out of posting this so people can be aware of this stuff, too many people don't say anything when this stuff happens. Education is the best way to combat scams.
Bought a box of midnight hunt when it was released, and the cards in it make the light dingy and dim like a fake card. Tested multiple different cards and concluded we need an update from the community regarding the light test
Judges should check cards for authenticity in deck checks, but most do not and do not have the knowledge either. With current "commander" players proxy cards are rampant and plenty of counterfeits, as they never play in sanctioned events anyway, nothing really happens, unless they "trade" these cards to someone that will play with them. For very cheap cards its usually irrelevant if its a fake card, the value is so low, nobody cares. If its a much more expensive card, at least use a jewelers loop for the green dot test, covers 99% of the fake cards, light test is good and quick as in this video, and weighting them also works (card is supposed to be 1.7 grams, +- 0.2 at max, anything much heavier or lighter is not a real card material and uses glue or something). Most importantly, with significant value like this, its a proper CRIME to sell these cards, so give all the information to the police and sue them, you can get your money back and they will be taken out. Dont just let it slide, scamming people is a crime.
When the "fetch lands" were being used as card backs, I was quite surprised that didn't tip you off. I bought one of these fake sets and noticed all the same cards in your video. I silver border mine with a Sharpie so they can't be used like this but are easy proxies for commander/home games/proxy legacy. Now that I have a better printer, no need to get more, but Wizards gives these people more business than necessary imo. Tough loss. Bring a loupe next time along with the light test. At least now you have some fakes to compare under the loupe!
You can always do a rip test. Real cards always have the same color glue, also getting a longer light can also show the same color glue without ripping it.
@8thPlaceDave @8thPlaceDave bummer it happens. I've seen someone destroy an unlimited mix emerald with a pick Because they thought it was a fake. Could send you a small box of bulk from from first ravnica block with a splash of shards of alara foil Pringles.
I just came upon this video and found it fascinating. Sorry for your loss. I just tried the light test with a pack fresh Crimson Vow common card and it looked muted, kind of like how your fake cards looked. This leads me to believe that more than just the light test is needed. I saw some other video recently where a guy compared cards through a microscope. Using a microscope seems to be the only way these days in determining if something is fake. Cards with the holo foil on the front are easy to tell as you mention in the video, but also, by putting it under a microscope is very easy to tell if it's fake.
Yeah, one thing I should have mentioned with the light test is that it should be done with like cards, like Crimson Vow compared to Crimson Vow, since it can vary by set and printing. Using a microscope/loupe is definitely good too.
Tough break as this can happen to anyone. We all might say NOT me EVER but that isn't true for 99% of us. Your attitude though is great in light of the events.
Yeah, there will always be people with the attitude that this could never happen to them (as evidenced by other comments!), but that's to be expected I guess. Thanks for the support :)
Now that Ive gotten further in the video Im wondering, have you based your entire analysis and determined the fakes from the authentic cards using Only the light test? I certainly hope not, or you could definitely have either more real ones than you thought or more fake ones. The light test is NOT reliable as the only method of determining the authenticity of MTG cards!
Unlucky dude! At least it was only "spending money" and you havent lost everything like some people do to some scams. Hope your next magic purchase goes better! :)
Sorry to hear that, man! That's hella rough. Most people would've probably been fooled, too, if they were in your shoes. Some of these scammers are really good at what they're doing. Just goes to show that if you're not comfortable losing the money you're about to spend, always take precautions. Not only for MTG cards, but for any private deal you're making.
oh no "The bother taking over the sale (because of whatever excuse)" for anything doesn't matter if its collectibles or not is a huge red flag. Sorry this happened, hopefully you can recoup
Thanks a lot for this video. Recently I came across a pretty similar collection with the difference that the person who was selling it had (pretended to have) no clue at all. O was in contact with the person for a few days. I decided not to commit to it, but kept chatting and up to today, Im not sure whether they were genuinely uninformed. They invited me to have a look and the ad was online for a whole week, which is strange be ause someone must have checked the cards. Interestingly, even when the they marked it as sold, they still communicated with me and told me that they found someone who appreciated it. But your videos puts me at rest that this collection will 100% have been 95% fakes too. Thanks!
Getting burned like this really hurts. Been burned a few times to the point that I will not stop investigating sellers until I am absolutely satisfied that I am not wrong. Start with the assumption that I am getting scammed and search for evidence that I am not. If I still feel uneasy I just walk away. Hopefully this video helps some more people be a bit more paranoid. Paranoia sucks right up until it saves you from being scammed like this. Sorry this happened to you, I hope you're able to recover from this.
My jeweler's loupe hasn't failed me yet. The green dot test + light test + looking at the black inking has kept me from getting fakes. (except when it was on purpose)
That's a tough break. I bought a jewelers loupe and could not be happier. Any half decent one will have a light and they're compact so you can take them on random purchases like this.
That really sucks dude...I came across the first videos without seeing this one and noticed a few cards seemed fake and I guess it was because of the camera, but I have a handful of proxies I bought years ago and they looked very similar in terms of the surface. It's not your fault for being trusting...this can happen to anyone as I probably wouldn;t have noticed until I got home with it and we know how the rush and excitement of going through a new collection can probably cloud our judgment. Thanks for the video and hopefully this helps someone from having this happen to them! Good luck in the future.
Thanks for making this video. It's hard to see this happen to people that don't deserve to be scammed. As a rule of thumb I generally don't buy single cards over a 100 dollars. I Also bring a jewelers loop with me when doing rounds of purchasing.
Dang. This is very scary. I was considering liquidating my collection, but it's tens of thousands of dollars. I don't even know who I would go to for such a transaction.
You gotta sell a few cards on fb groups and get to know people. Then, when you build up trust you can sell the big money cards but be prepares to take a hit of around 50 percent of the value 🙂
So sorry to see this. I am paranoid. Everytime I get any cards, even from sealed packs or boxes I do an inspection. The internet has ruined me. I have no chill.
really sorry for you man...but thanks for taking this f´d up situation as an opportunity for educating your viewers on how to identify fakes ( especially for magic newbies like myself ) and to be extra cautious when something seems odd.
Not really super related, but the thing you saw with the light, both in reflection and shine, I've noticed is a bit more consistent on newer cards. I bought two of the same set from different shops, and one of them and one of them had a glossier feel, so it felt really smooth, light reflects off them more, and light doesn't shine through that well. I started panicking a bit thinking they might be fake, as this was our first time buying from that shop. So I took it to my normal LGS, and they looked at it through a jeweler's loop and assured me they were real. This doesn't apply to old cards, but apparently newer cards are so inconsistent that it can become harder to determine poor quality real cards from high quality fakes.... Anyway, rant over :) . It's really unfortunate that this happened to you, and I'm sorry to hear that. This is a wholesome game, and I hate when people damage its reputation like this Edit: Oh, and the packs in question for me felt like they had air in them, so I was concerned they were resealed. The rares were also in the wrong spot in each pack (they were 3 from the front)... to be honest, I still question it to the day
Glad ur cards were real dude i saw u was worried bout sum packs having rares in different spot idk if u kno but depending on the set and where the box is from can change whole layout of the pack theres USA JAP and BELGIUM so prolly nothing 2 worry bout it should tell somewhere on bottom or side of the box not sure if its on individual packs u can check but yea cud be why the order is different.
The crazy thing for me was learning that not all MTG cards actually use a blue core. I thought that was something that they had done on purpose as a security feature and they would always have a blue core. In fact from what I've researched a number of times the earlier sets used black cores and the blue core was more of a preference. So you can have like 90% blue core in a set and then just randomly one of the printers, or maybe the same printer ran out of blue core material, just decided to use black core to finish the last 10% of the cards. The printing on older MTG cards also has a huge amount of variance. Like cards that are normally very faded will suddenly have a few copies that are way darker. Or the way that like all the cards in revised I've seen are really faded, except for one swamp that seems like it had the same dark printing that unlimited had. I'm going to have to get a jeweler's loupe just to tell if most of them are real. But then again most of the cards I have are super cheap, I can't imagine someone printing proxies of ten cent cards and trying to pass them off as real instead of just buying the actual real cards.
Dude major bummer. It’s awful what that man is doing as it undermines trust that should exist between hobby enthusiasts. He probably justifies it to himself by saying there’s legitimate product in there…
I'm sorry this happened but I hope you are able to get past this. It also helps some a light on this kind of thing and hopefully other players seeing this are able to avoid this kind of thing because of your video. Again my condolences.
Always light check everything you buy, even from my local LGS I’ll check. Unfortunately we live in a day where people can even buy WOTC product wrap open a booster box and rewrap it and either return the item or resell it as “new”
The light test is one of the most unreliable methods of checking for fake MTG cards though- there is alot of variance between modern cards and older authentic cards so hopefully nobody sees this and thinks one can rely solely on that one method, others are way more reliable.
Really sorry this happened to you, man. That's a rotten thing to do to a fellow Magic player. It's a good to share this kind of thing though, spread some awareness. When I started buying older valuable cards and RL stuff, I picked up a jeweller's loupe and I check every card. I've picked up some VERY convincing proxies. Some of the best proxies are damn near perfect to the naked eye. And like you said, the light test can be ambiguous due to Wizards' insistence on cheap printing these days. But in my experience, even the best proxies can't beat the Red Dot test, and that's my go-to. Takes 5 seconds to verify any card.
Really unfortunate, it's a horrid thing to go through. I and a few of my friends have been scammed in some way shape or form. Recently one of my friends had all his socials hacked because of it. Even things like that hurt a lot and make you feel like shit. So losing such a massive sum of money would have been awful. I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hope you get through it okay. This is why it's important to be so hyper-carful on the internet, one slip up and some low-life scumbag asshole will take advantage of you and take what's yours without doing any of the work tp ern any of it in the first place. Take care and be safe.
So sorry this happened. The fakes are so good now. We went round and round recently and experienced players, including me, and store staff couldn’t be certain about a given card. Thanks for sharing. Truly a public service. One way to check is with a jeweler’s loupe. The rosettes in the printing are distinctive if you know what to look for.
From now on, I would only buy collections after seeing their references pages on Facebook. Did you perform any test other than the light test on these cards? Like a Jeweler's Loupe test? Sometimes there are inconsistencies in the light test. Rare stamps are better authenticated when seeing them at angles. Every other column of logos on the foil stamp alternate between the planeswalker symbol and a randomly selected basic land logo depending on the angle at which the light is reflected off of the stamp. Fake stamps do not have this alternation and appear the exact same at all angles of light hitting it. If I were you. I would get all these card loupe tested by an expert.
I commented earlier that I saw a video of a guy comparing real/fake cards through a microscope. It seems really easy to tell fakes when looking at them through a microscope, if you know what to look for. The light test didn't work for me. I tried it on a Crimson Vow pack fresh common and the light looked very comparable to the light shown through the fakes in this video.
@@joelombardi4907 Definitely true. Cards are printed in the US, Belgium and Japan and have different card stocks and quality .... the light test is one of the more inconsistent verification tests.
My recommendation is to always do a loupe test for anything >$100, checking crispness of the black text layer (no rosette-ing), checking tri-color rosette pattern, green dot test, checking expansion symbol. *Secondarily*, you can do a flick test, face feel and gloss, light test, text kerning check, or if absolutely necessary .... a bend test. Louping will ALWAYS be best as counterfeiters do not have the original art files and cannot print cards using layers of mono-color rosette patterns. Even Wizards lost the original print files from like before 1998, so no one will ever be able to counterfeit a perfect Power 9.
I'm so sorry for your misfortune. It's very weird, I bought a collection for $1600. Very nice stuff, turned it around and sold it to my local LGS over 3 separate visit/sales. 3 weeks later I got a call from a police officer saying the store is claiming they were all fake. To make a long story short, I was out $4600. Still not sure if the original seller scammed me or the store considering they checked everything on all three visits but I have been doing business with this store for many years so I don't think it was them. If they were fake, they were very very good fakes.
The fact that a storefront looked at and inspected the cards physically, chose to buy them from you then claimed they were fake and had the police contact you is wild. Id get if a few were fake out it many, but ALL and they didn't notice? Incredibly incompetent. All store owners that buy should have knowledge on how to detect fakes.
Thank you for sharing your story. It's awful that there are people who do this. I guess I better start checking my cards too. I tend to only buy from reputable sellers online, but you never know..
a $10 jeweler's loupe is also a very nice tool to use when buying collectible cards(and a minute google search for how to distinguish the fakes)... every card i buy online gets checked by my loupe before it A: goes into my deck, B: goes into my collection, or C: get's returned for being fake. P.S. alternate 4th edition does not have a rosette pattern! so if its white bordered and not rosette, i'd break out the black light first to be sure.
Thanks for sharing. Always bring a jeweler's loupe to a sale and check the rosette pattern, the green dot on the back etc. There are plenty of youtube vids to help you become more skilled at spotting fakes. Start with the assumption that people want to scam you. Hell, I buy from big renowed stores and even then I use a microscope on cards to verify they're real.
Sorry this has happend to you. It's getting worse every day. I can't imagine how many fakes are floating arround and the owners arent even aware, that half the "value" in their deck is not real. Do not rely on the light test. It is very inaccurate, especially with newer fakes and also with newer genuine cards (from different printing facilities). Try comparing cards with genuine cards from the same set. Use a magnifying glass to check the dots on the back and the printing pattern around the dots. This has not been changed from Alpha to the present and is currently very reliable. There is also microtext in the foil stamp on real cards. And please keep up with newer fakes. All this information may be out of date tomorrow.
New subscriber just ran across your stuff alot of funny videos and then I saw this. Bummer man, I got scammed on a lotus in 2009 and ever since I will literally pull my jewelers loop out even in a LGS to verify now.
Thats a big hit and sorry to hear about that ! But THANK YOU for making this video. I immediately went to some cards I have bought recently off eBay and did the light test thankfully they are ok, but I didn't even KNOW about the light test! Thanks man! Subbed and this was an entertaining and informative video.
That sucks. I’ve been scammed twice over the course of hundreds of deals… There’s always these little signs that look bad in hindsight but the trouble is even the real transactions have those little quirks in them, and most of the time they go through fine anyway. Tough but important lesson.
High quality fake cards have been able to pass the feel test for many years. I would make more tests on the "recent" "real" cards to confirm they are authentic and not just latest generation fakes. I saw latest generation MH1 fakes in Beijing back in 2019 and they were nearly indistinguishable from real cards. I used a loupe and compared directly with cards from a box I opened to discover the fakes. Check every element like the set symbol, the artist credits, the black lining, etc... Thank you for making the video. So many Magic players are oblivious to how good fake cards have gotten. Especially a streamer like Rudy who does videos on fake cards but those are only the fake cards he can detect, and he doesn't use or demonstrate loupe tests. So his videos become misinformation instead of information, regardless of how they were intended.
It can’t be proven. There’s literally no way to prove that these are the cards that were sold and not a second batch that he’s lying about. Now obviously this isn’t the case, but legally nothing can be done
you live you learn! not a total loss, which is good. aside from glossy sheen and flimsiness of card stock, definitely familiarize yourself with the light test and recognizing the pattern of "waves" in the blue core paper. even more importantly, familiarize with the ink dot pattern on face and back of cards. if you don't have jewelers loupe, take some quality photos with your phone and zoom in on the taken photo and make note of the hexagon-like pattern of the print dots. this is important for making purchases and why i never purchase from anyone with blurry and limited photos. cheers to you, better luck moving forward, and thanks for making this video!
Does the light test work for all cards? Like I went through some of my newly bought MH2 cards (straight from their sealed boxes bought at my LGS) and they had a dimmer, red light coming through and most of my MH2 cards had them...getting super worried
Can confirm. My MH2 cards look remarkably similar to my proxies under the light test. You really want to use a jeweler’s loupe if you are doing serious buying/selling, the light test and bend test don’t quite cut it. At any rate, it would probably be way too costly to proxy up entire boxes and packs? If anything they just get searched and resealed
Sorry for you getting scammed. I have been playing since 1996 and own a lot of original cards. I first ran into fakes about 2 years ago. The fakes back then were very obvious, but the latest fakes are almost undetectable. They past the bend test. They pass the light test, but they do not pass the the jeweler's loop test. You use the jeweler's loop to look on the green synbol on the back of the card. Real cards have 3 red dots in the yellow reflection of the mana symbol, fake ones will have multiple red dots. Other than that, the new fakes coming out of Germany and Italy are almost undetectable. They are now even making complete holifoil cards, judges issued cards, and FNM holifoil trophy cards. If you are going to buy singles, have a jeweler's loop with you.
Sorry to hear this happened scams are horrible, in effect scammers are con artists, door salesmen they act nice to get you comfortable enough to buy into what they are selling however this isn't true for some scams. I doubt the grand pre story id even real. I actually tried the lights test on cards I had opened from packs after reading what you said in the comments and alot of the newer cards in my collection failed the test aswell.
Moral of the story: when you decide to purchase a high value card or a collection of cards and you meet the seller ask him/her if you can see the cards and check them (light test, green dot test, bending test with a common one, compare test with real cards, etc). BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.
This reminds me of the time I was indirectly sold a fake Volcanic Island from a card shop for $250. In retrospect, there were similar red flags in my situation as well, but I was so inexperienced with this sort of ordeal, I thought nothing of it. I had recently began collecting 1 of each "true" dual land through Facebook, and had already acquired a Scrubland, Savanah, Bayou and Tundra successfully. Long story short, be wary of expensive deals(especially online), never do transactions via PayPal Friends&Family and do not do ANY business with Woof & Dargon gaming!
You can probably sell the "Proxies" for a few dollars a piece and not take a complete bath. You're right it's crazy that this player spent retail on some of those cards getting the Chinese Super Clones. You're absolutely right about some being more real then others. I sometimes order the Chinese proxies and they vary from easily noticeable to basically you can't tell unless you rip them in half. I'm guessing the quality varies based off the factory/employee that ends up with your order. An interesting thing about ordering proxies too is these Chinese companies know they're doing this illegally and have US addresses that forward your cards after they get them in through customs.
4:55 Yeah totally roled that stinky Nat 1 on Insight 6:50 I think that one is the biggest red flag for scammers, even if it doesnt seems that bad in the first moment. And good luck with your card deals in the Future, hope the 3k didnt hurt you that bad (I mean not like anyone wouldn't care to lose that money, I only hope you dont have to struggle with rent or something )
do you have a loupe? its a 2 second test with a loupe if you have the card in hand to tell a real card - have seen cards pass the light test and the "feel" test - but never the loupe or the holo stamp
All of those "cheap" fakes used to be semi expensive. Fatal push and Inquisition were up around 15-20$ Teeg was really high before the reprint. Probably because of EDH. Plus that fake sellers start out around 2.5$ Plus shipping from china. But if you buy a box set its closer to 90 cents (.90$), and you can enough singles they give a per card discount.
Not sure how accurate the light test is. Just tried it on my "In the Eye of Chaos" (confirmed real via red dot test by several LGS) and it was bright, but was dull on my Thassa's Oracle, dull on my Secret Lair Demonic Consultation, and mixed results on my pack fresh random Brother's War cards. Update: did same test on Remove Enchantments (Legends), Tundra Wolves (Legends), Unsummon (Revised), Windfall (Urza's Saga), Jester's Cap (Ice Age) and Necrologia (7th Edition) and the light was bright, similar to my In the Eye of Chaos. Newer sets appear dull, such as any Brother's War or Dominaria Remastered cards I own. I wouldn't rely on only the light test you are using, check for the red dots in the green mana symbol on the back as well.
I feel really bad for you. I've bought fake cards like this too, but I did it knowing full well that they are and just wanted duplicates of cards I already own to run in multiple commander decks. But I wouldn't try to ever pass them off as real cards to someone else later. That said, I wouldn't say that these cards are completely worthless like you said. There are many players like myself who would be willing to buy them off you, and it may help recoup some of your losses. Obviously not every one of the cards you got scammed on are any good in commander, but every little bit there helps.
About the DOM booster box, out of the cases I own, I’ve never seen a box with the sealing lines on the name of the set. It’s normally shown on the side and back. Just my opinion on it. My bad that happened to you. It almost happened to me too but good thing I carry a jeweler loupe
Ouch, that's brutal man. Sorry to hear about this, any time I get a single whether it's a common or a 80$ ragavan I light check it, it's the only way to be sure nowadays. I've had nothing like this happen fortunately but I did get scammed out of booster packs back in the day when boxes were being mapped. It's a shame to because it was being done by some LGS owners... soured me to LGS boosters for a long time.
If I was spending that much money I'd be getting ID from the seller and taking down plate numbers. Pawn Shops do it, I would too before handing over 3k.
Ah yes. Reminds me of when a friend of mine put our combined collection of older and newer cards (going back to artificiers and older) in their backpack to pc them at a vendor and it got stolen. About 6000 cards just gone. That sucks. I feel you man. Luckily i had my IE Sapphire and the other really valuable ones in a seperate place.
Dude im so sorry. A couple of people in a pod I play made some trades with a mutual friend between us all and we gave him real cards for knockoffs and we didn't think anything of it because he's been playing forever and we all play together. It hurts man.
Having come from the yugioh community into the magic one, I’m naturally a lot more careful about my collection, especially since I own a lot of expensive cards (I like to collect the kaladesh inventions, and I also regularly play cedh at a shop that doesn’t allow proxies). I had my own run in with a dirtbag once, not nearly as bad as this though. I traded a few crappy cards for a sunbaked canyon, which ended up being fake after I checked later, but the kicker was that this guy stole my metalworker (luckily a nonfoil copy). And this was somewhat recent, about a year ago, so the card was sitting around 90$ or so. Since then I keep all of my more valuable cards in a separate binder that I don’t let out of my sight if it’s out of my backpack, and I usually only show it to players I’ve known for a while. I haven’t really gone as far as purchasing a collection since I’m a lot more of a player than collector (other than the inventions), but I’ll definitely make sure to check the cards before purchasing if I ever end up buying a collection.
@@8thPlaceDave yugioh has no reserved list and most expensive cards are reprinted very heavily eventually so being a collector is hard. It’s mostly about being a player than collector in yugioh. Playing meta decks is usually difficult to do since the new and powerful cards are printed at high rarity, and only get reprinted once they’re not so relevant anymore. Buying a top tier meta deck wouldn’t be as expensive as a modern deck, but it would probably be more expensive than a standard deck, at least from experience of several years ago. I don’t really keep tabs too much.
Also people trying to just trade scam is VERY common, treating your cards at lower value and/or overvaluing their own. It’s just a generally worse community than magic when it comes to trading/selling/buying. Again, just from my personal experience and the voice of others I played with in my playgroup. Maybe the community has changed, but I’m not sure. Might be because the average age of the players is less, might be because konami literally has no communication with its players at all so respect for the LGS and that type of thing isn’t really spread around by the game itself. Could be a lot of different reasons, probably a matter of them all being factors lol.
Ah I see. I've heard that about Konami not communicating with players. I actually went to a goat format tournament recently. It was my first time going to a Yugioh tournament since about 2004. It was a fun experience, but I think I'll stick to just collecting oldschool Yugioh and playing Magic.
Sorry to hear that you got scammed. As a cheapskate Magic player myself: I think WOTC are also making this game way too expensive. For certain formats it feels like pay-to-win. So yay proxies.
I own some _very_ convincing Chinese proxies of high value legacy and vintage cards, because I like playing these formats, and I refuse to pay $500 for a dual land. Double-sleeved, nobody can tell my proxies from real cards. But I'd never, ever sell or trade them. That being said, I have sold some fairly expensive cards in the past, NM Gaea's Cradle, that sort of thing. And I just _can't_ believe it when people bought them without doing a light check. So far nobody properly checked my cards before buying them. I never sold proxies, but God damn, I really could have. I guess owning high-quality proxies made me more aware of how easy it is to get bamboozeled.
i have many secret lair cards from Wizards directly that show light differently at different intensities depending on where on the card you shine the light. If I were you, I'd take them all and mail them to a card grading service or appraiser and just have them scrutinized by a professional. Not sure if you said anything like this, but i am just skimming this video atm. Also, I've cracked packs recently and noticed that some cards are printed with a heavier gloss and an "unusual" cardstock feel, so I'm dubious when it comes to accurately distinguishing between real and fakes nowadays. The proxies have become so good (with foil stamps even) that I just don't think that most regular joes can tell without a set of loupes or some good magnification, and even then, most don't know what to look for.
Couple tips if they havent been shared (i frequently purchase collections like this):
1. If you buy collections of this value get a jewelers loupe, and spot test multiple cards of ranging sets and values
2. Gather a set of older cards that are minimal value for comparison (IE: Tempest, Stronghold, Legends, The Dark, etc.) Its great to have a real comparison on hand for deals like this
3. Meet somewhere where you can validate the legitimacy of the cards. Well lit area, place to sit, set 30 minutes aside. The more knowledgeable you are,the less intrusive it seems as you can spread awareness/educate the seller as you go along, explain what you are checking and why, so its not awkward when you do identify a fake as you will have explained why you have taken that stance.
Better luck next time. Its happened to all of us, hope that it works out better in the future!
I'm very sorry for you. This is terrible to happen to anybody and exactly why I push for the community to push BACK against all counterfeits. Proxies are not counterfeits.... Proxies are obviously not real. Counterfeits try to appear real.
yea absolutly! i just ordered some proxy that look very much like the real deal on the front but on the back it says "Proxymaster" and "Magic the Proxy" and i think thats totaly okay
Yes, that is why I have a foil Black Lotus and I would assume, everyone who is buying a Lotus would check that it is...well...foil xD
If you are ordering proxies from somewhere make sure they're vastly different from a real card. A waxy texture is a great way to tell the difference.
It's why all my proxies have a different back and say not for resale.
I make test cards with crayons to ensure everyone can tell I'm too poor to play with Gaia's Cradle and Moxen.
The brother with no magic experience was probably invented so that he doesn't need to answer specific questions.
This really sucks man. I remember getting scammed and stolen from in my early days as a kid first playing the game. Even people I used to go to FNM would regularly steal from my binders. I hate these people within the community, and that feeling of being deceived is awful. Took a while, a move, and a different LGS to get my confidence back. Sorry this happened to you man
Dude, people are awful. I've gone to the bathroom and lost cards from my deck and haven't realized until weeks later.
If it wasn't for the way too rare cards in there I even would've given them the benefit of the doubt and believed that it might've been them who got scammed when they originally acquired the cards. That just goes to show how well executed this scam was. Really can't blame anyone for falling for it.
The foil stamp on fakes being raised up is a good tip, sorry you got scammed, hopefully future deals go better man.
Really appreciate you sharing, Dave! This video probably hurt to make, but it’s an asset for the education of the honest magic players out there. Been enjoying lots of your videos lately! 👍 Happy new subscriber! 👍
Thanks for the support. I'm glad you enjoy the videos!
This is why I always bring a loupe to any in person sale that I do. Just recently saved me from 3k on a fake mishras workshop. These fake card sellers always have stories about where they got the cards and how long theyve been playing and all that to try and legitimize themselves so that is also a red flag in of its self if they are trying too hard to make it seem real before or during the sale. I explicitly tell everyone before meetup that I will be bringing a loupe and doing multiple tests on the cards im picking up and some people still try to sell fakes to you and act dumb once you tell them the card is fake. Hell, they still try to legitimize the cards after telling them its fake, trying to say the inconsistencies must be printing errors lol. This is why you should never trust anybody until you can test the cards. Big lesson here is to buy a microscope or loupe and test all or most of any high value cards before proceeding. If they want you to bring cash then always leave it in the car hidden until you are sure. I usually tell them i do not bring cash before going and that we will go to the bank once everything checks out. And bring someone else if you can. If you cant then let people know where you are once you park and give them a timeframe of 10-20 minutes that if you do not call them in that amount of time, have them try to call you. If you do not answer then tell them beforehand to have police sent to the area of the sale. You can also just keep them on call with your phone in your pocket as well. its best to be safe as there are some crazy people out there who will do just about anything for a few grand and these tips will help you to buy with confidence.
I love how you actually know it's a game but still justify spending 3k on cards.
@@batsumoto Have to spend it somewhere. Might as well be on something i enjoy. disposable income and all that
Lol, I have a counterfeit mishra's workshop. I believe it is counterfeit, it came as packaging for a 5€ card I bought, could you imagine if it was real? Lol, deal of my life
amazing how positive you remain in the face of this huge loss of money and trust, i absolutely respect how this whole ordeal didnt get you down enough to not see any upsides to it
Thank you for the kind comment :)
Thanks for sharing man. Wish you LOTS of luck on your next collection buy.
Thank you :)
Tough break man. I think we've all been through something like this at this point. The $3k loss will sting for a while, but don't let it deter you!
If this guy played in GP's. You could probably look up participant lists and try finding their real social media and maybe recognize them.
He was probably lying about playing in the grind prix’s though
@@weareafteryou3975 maybe not, he does have decks built for it, and even possible signatures from being there (possible)
The brown oval on the back is darker than the real card you put up. Typically with fakes the feel is noticeable too. Im so sorry this happened to you man. I own lots of expensive real cards and lots of proxies/fakes. The fakes are getting so good its harder and harder to tell. Buyers beware
It’s also important to keep in mind some sets (ice age is the biggest example I can think of) have miscolored backs in general so you really gotta check the print patterns and thickness/texture
That's rough. Thanks for sharing!
I purchased my first counterfeit card off of TCG player a few months ago. I was a little suspicious at first when I got the card and later, after a lot of research, I determined it was indeed a fake. Through the buyer protection program, I was able to get my money back.
This prompted me to purchase a jeweler's loupe so whenever I purchase singles, I can hopefully identify a fake a bit easier.
Now Im stressing about my card purchases on TCG
@@Its109TheGamer I wouldn't worry too much. I have made 72 transactions over the past 2 years for several hundred cards, and only had the one bad experience. I give credit to TCGPlayer for their customer service, they are pretty quick to take care of anything you suspect might not be legit. (Well were in my case) It did prompt me to pick up a jeweler's loupe. They're pretty cheap on Amazon. If anything seems a bit off, I give the card a good once over with the loupe.
Bless your optimism at the end. This video broke my heart, you seem like such a good dude and I hate that this sort of thing goes on in our community. Hopefully this was something you were able to bounce back from and only made you more resilient.
It takes a lot to share situations like this. Thank you and your character and how you process this is worth infinite mana
Really cool that you're able to look on the bright side on all the things you got that weren't fakes! Sucks that this happened to you >.
Sorry for your loss Dave, thank you for the continued content. In my opinion you've flipped the bad carma from this jerk into good carma by making the community laugh & smile.
That sucks man, but ANYONE can be scammed, thanks for staying positive. At least some good will come out of posting this so people can be aware of this stuff, too many people don't say anything when this stuff happens. Education is the best way to combat scams.
Bought a box of midnight hunt when it was released, and the cards in it make the light dingy and dim like a fake card. Tested multiple different cards and concluded we need an update from the community regarding the light test
Jeweler's loupe is an additional cheap method if light test fails.
Judges should check cards for authenticity in deck checks, but most do not and do not have the knowledge either.
With current "commander" players proxy cards are rampant and plenty of counterfeits, as they never play in sanctioned events anyway, nothing really happens, unless they "trade" these cards to someone that will play with them.
For very cheap cards its usually irrelevant if its a fake card, the value is so low, nobody cares.
If its a much more expensive card, at least use a jewelers loop for the green dot test, covers 99% of the fake cards, light test is good and quick as in this video, and weighting them also works (card is supposed to be 1.7 grams, +- 0.2 at max, anything much heavier or lighter is not a real card material and uses glue or something).
Most importantly, with significant value like this, its a proper CRIME to sell these cards, so give all the information to the police and sue them, you can get your money back and they will be taken out.
Dont just let it slide, scamming people is a crime.
When the "fetch lands" were being used as card backs, I was quite surprised that didn't tip you off. I bought one of these fake sets and noticed all the same cards in your video. I silver border mine with a Sharpie so they can't be used like this but are easy proxies for commander/home games/proxy legacy. Now that I have a better printer, no need to get more, but Wizards gives these people more business than necessary imo. Tough loss. Bring a loupe next time along with the light test. At least now you have some fakes to compare under the loupe!
Nice of you to post. Sorry that happened to you but appreciate you spreading the word. Cheers
Sadly scams are becoming more and more common. Thanks for sharing your story.
You can always do a rip test. Real cards always have the same color glue, also getting a longer light can also show the same color glue without ripping it.
After using the rip test, I can confirm that my Black Lotus is, in fact, real.
@8thPlaceDave @8thPlaceDave bummer it happens. I've seen someone destroy an unlimited mix emerald with a pick Because they thought it was a fake.
Could send you a small box of bulk from from first ravnica block with a splash of shards of alara foil Pringles.
@@8thPlaceDave wait did you genuinely rip a black lotus?
@@DimT670 he did!
@@DimT670 🤣🤣🤣
I just came upon this video and found it fascinating. Sorry for your loss. I just tried the light test with a pack fresh Crimson Vow common card and it looked muted, kind of like how your fake cards looked. This leads me to believe that more than just the light test is needed. I saw some other video recently where a guy compared cards through a microscope. Using a microscope seems to be the only way these days in determining if something is fake. Cards with the holo foil on the front are easy to tell as you mention in the video, but also, by putting it under a microscope is very easy to tell if it's fake.
Yeah, one thing I should have mentioned with the light test is that it should be done with like cards, like Crimson Vow compared to Crimson Vow, since it can vary by set and printing. Using a microscope/loupe is definitely good too.
@@8thPlaceDave At least the Dominaria booster box is worth about $225 if real.
@@joelombardi4907 Yeah, that part of the collection is real, so thankfully it wasn't a total loss :)
Sorry to hear that happened bro. I just watched this after the 1st video. Thanks for sharing your experience to the community
Tough break as this can happen to anyone. We all might say NOT me EVER but that isn't true for 99% of us. Your attitude though is great in light of the events.
Yeah, there will always be people with the attitude that this could never happen to them (as evidenced by other comments!), but that's to be expected I guess. Thanks for the support :)
Now that Ive gotten further in the video Im wondering, have you based your entire analysis and determined the fakes from the authentic cards using Only the light test? I certainly hope not, or you could definitely have either more real ones than you thought or more fake ones. The light test is NOT reliable as the only method of determining the authenticity of MTG cards!
Unlucky dude! At least it was only "spending money" and you havent lost everything like some people do to some scams. Hope your next magic purchase goes better! :)
Sorry to hear that, man! That's hella rough. Most people would've probably been fooled, too, if they were in your shoes. Some of these scammers are really good at what they're doing.
Just goes to show that if you're not comfortable losing the money you're about to spend, always take precautions. Not only for MTG cards, but for any private deal you're making.
oh no "The bother taking over the sale (because of whatever excuse)" for anything doesn't matter if its collectibles or not is a huge red flag. Sorry this happened, hopefully you can recoup
Thanks a lot for this video. Recently I came across a pretty similar collection with the difference that the person who was selling it had (pretended to have) no clue at all. O was in contact with the person for a few days. I decided not to commit to it, but kept chatting and up to today, Im not sure whether they were genuinely uninformed. They invited me to have a look and the ad was online for a whole week, which is strange be ause someone must have checked the cards. Interestingly, even when the they marked it as sold, they still communicated with me and told me that they found someone who appreciated it. But your videos puts me at rest that this collection will 100% have been 95% fakes too. Thanks!
Getting burned like this really hurts. Been burned a few times to the point that I will not stop investigating sellers until I am absolutely satisfied that I am not wrong. Start with the assumption that I am getting scammed and search for evidence that I am not. If I still feel uneasy I just walk away. Hopefully this video helps some more people be a bit more paranoid. Paranoia sucks right up until it saves you from being scammed like this. Sorry this happened to you, I hope you're able to recover from this.
Yeah, I used to think that people were being too paranoid about things like this, but we saw how that turned out for me. Thanks for commenting :)
My jeweler's loupe hasn't failed me yet. The green dot test + light test + looking at the black inking has kept me from getting fakes. (except when it was on purpose)
That's a tough break. I bought a jewelers loupe and could not be happier. Any half decent one will have a light and they're compact so you can take them on random purchases like this.
Sorry for your lost dave, actually make me take another look at my recent purchases. hope you will get another chance for a break.
That really sucks dude...I came across the first videos without seeing this one and noticed a few cards seemed fake and I guess it was because of the camera, but I have a handful of proxies I bought years ago and they looked very similar in terms of the surface. It's not your fault for being trusting...this can happen to anyone as I probably wouldn;t have noticed until I got home with it and we know how the rush and excitement of going through a new collection can probably cloud our judgment. Thanks for the video and hopefully this helps someone from having this happen to them! Good luck in the future.
Thanks for making this video. It's hard to see this happen to people that don't deserve to be scammed. As a rule of thumb I generally don't buy single cards over a 100 dollars. I Also bring a jewelers loop with me when doing rounds of purchasing.
"I'm going out of town for work, so I'll have someone else meet you" HUGE RED FLAG
Dang. This is very scary. I was considering liquidating my collection, but it's tens of thousands of dollars. I don't even know who I would go to for such a transaction.
You gotta sell a few cards on fb groups and get to know people. Then, when you build up trust you can sell the big money cards but be prepares to take a hit of around 50 percent of the value 🙂
The bad feeling of being tricked sucks. I am sorry to hear. Thanks for the info.
So sorry to see this. I am paranoid. Everytime I get any cards, even from sealed packs or boxes I do an inspection. The internet has ruined me. I have no chill.
Thanks for making this series!
I'm sorry it cost you 3k!
really sorry for you man...but thanks for taking this f´d up situation as an opportunity for educating your viewers on how to identify fakes ( especially for magic newbies like myself ) and to be extra cautious when something seems odd.
Not really super related, but the thing you saw with the light, both in reflection and shine, I've noticed is a bit more consistent on newer cards. I bought two of the same set from different shops, and one of them and one of them had a glossier feel, so it felt really smooth, light reflects off them more, and light doesn't shine through that well. I started panicking a bit thinking they might be fake, as this was our first time buying from that shop. So I took it to my normal LGS, and they looked at it through a jeweler's loop and assured me they were real. This doesn't apply to old cards, but apparently newer cards are so inconsistent that it can become harder to determine poor quality real cards from high quality fakes....
Anyway, rant over :) . It's really unfortunate that this happened to you, and I'm sorry to hear that. This is a wholesome game, and I hate when people damage its reputation like this
Edit: Oh, and the packs in question for me felt like they had air in them, so I was concerned they were resealed. The rares were also in the wrong spot in each pack (they were 3 from the front)... to be honest, I still question it to the day
Glad ur cards were real dude i saw u was worried bout sum packs having rares in different spot idk if u kno but depending on the set and where the box is from can change whole layout of the pack theres USA JAP and BELGIUM so prolly nothing 2 worry bout it should tell somewhere on bottom or side of the box not sure if its on individual packs u can check but yea cud be why the order is different.
The crazy thing for me was learning that not all MTG cards actually use a blue core. I thought that was something that they had done on purpose as a security feature and they would always have a blue core. In fact from what I've researched a number of times the earlier sets used black cores and the blue core was more of a preference. So you can have like 90% blue core in a set and then just randomly one of the printers, or maybe the same printer ran out of blue core material, just decided to use black core to finish the last 10% of the cards. The printing on older MTG cards also has a huge amount of variance. Like cards that are normally very faded will suddenly have a few copies that are way darker. Or the way that like all the cards in revised I've seen are really faded, except for one swamp that seems like it had the same dark printing that unlimited had. I'm going to have to get a jeweler's loupe just to tell if most of them are real. But then again most of the cards I have are super cheap, I can't imagine someone printing proxies of ten cent cards and trying to pass them off as real instead of just buying the actual real cards.
Dude major bummer. It’s awful what that man is doing as it undermines trust that should exist between hobby enthusiasts. He probably justifies it to himself by saying there’s legitimate product in there…
I'm sorry this happened but I hope you are able to get past this. It also helps some a light on this kind of thing and hopefully other players seeing this are able to avoid this kind of thing because of your video. Again my condolences.
Always light check everything you buy, even from my local LGS I’ll check. Unfortunately we live in a day where people can even buy WOTC product wrap open a booster box and rewrap it and either return the item or resell it as “new”
The light test is one of the most unreliable methods of checking for fake MTG cards though- there is alot of variance between modern cards and older authentic cards so hopefully nobody sees this and thinks one can rely solely on that one method, others are way more reliable.
Really sorry this happened to you, man. That's a rotten thing to do to a fellow Magic player. It's a good to share this kind of thing though, spread some awareness. When I started buying older valuable cards and RL stuff, I picked up a jeweller's loupe and I check every card. I've picked up some VERY convincing proxies. Some of the best proxies are damn near perfect to the naked eye. And like you said, the light test can be ambiguous due to Wizards' insistence on cheap printing these days. But in my experience, even the best proxies can't beat the Red Dot test, and that's my go-to. Takes 5 seconds to verify any card.
Really unfortunate, it's a horrid thing to go through. I and a few of my friends have been scammed in some way shape or form. Recently one of my friends had all his socials hacked because of it. Even things like that hurt a lot and make you feel like shit. So losing such a massive sum of money would have been awful. I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hope you get through it okay. This is why it's important to be so hyper-carful on the internet, one slip up and some low-life scumbag asshole will take advantage of you and take what's yours without doing any of the work tp ern any of it in the first place. Take care and be safe.
So sorry this happened. The fakes are so good now. We went round and round recently and experienced players, including me, and store staff couldn’t be certain about a given card. Thanks for sharing. Truly a public service. One way to check is with a jeweler’s loupe. The rosettes in the printing are distinctive if you know what to look for.
From now on, I would only buy collections after seeing their references pages on Facebook. Did you perform any test other than the light test on these cards? Like a Jeweler's Loupe test? Sometimes there are inconsistencies in the light test. Rare stamps are better authenticated when seeing them at angles. Every other column of logos on the foil stamp alternate between the planeswalker symbol and a randomly selected basic land logo depending on the angle at which the light is reflected off of the stamp. Fake stamps do not have this alternation and appear the exact same at all angles of light hitting it. If I were you. I would get all these card loupe tested by an expert.
I commented earlier that I saw a video of a guy comparing real/fake cards through a microscope. It seems really easy to tell fakes when looking at them through a microscope, if you know what to look for. The light test didn't work for me. I tried it on a Crimson Vow pack fresh common and the light looked very comparable to the light shown through the fakes in this video.
Indeed, I almost freaked out when finding this out hahahahaha
@@joelombardi4907 Definitely true. Cards are printed in the US, Belgium and Japan and have different card stocks and quality .... the light test is one of the more inconsistent verification tests.
My recommendation is to always do a loupe test for anything >$100, checking crispness of the black text layer (no rosette-ing), checking tri-color rosette pattern, green dot test, checking expansion symbol. *Secondarily*, you can do a flick test, face feel and gloss, light test, text kerning check, or if absolutely necessary .... a bend test.
Louping will ALWAYS be best as counterfeiters do not have the original art files and cannot print cards using layers of mono-color rosette patterns. Even Wizards lost the original print files from like before 1998, so no one will ever be able to counterfeit a perfect Power 9.
Thanks for bringing this to light.
I've just come back to this video because I've bought a few singles so knowing how to check is super helpful.
I'm so sorry for your misfortune. It's very weird, I bought a collection for $1600. Very nice stuff, turned it around and sold it to my local LGS over 3 separate visit/sales. 3 weeks later I got a call from a police officer saying the store is claiming they were all fake. To make a long story short, I was out $4600. Still not sure if the original seller scammed me or the store considering they checked everything on all three visits but I have been doing business with this store for many years so I don't think it was them. If they were fake, they were very very good fakes.
Wow that's pretty crazy. It's so hard to tell what to do in these situations... Thanks for sharing!
The fact that a storefront looked at and inspected the cards physically, chose to buy them from you then claimed they were fake and had the police contact you is wild. Id get if a few were fake out it many, but ALL and they didn't notice? Incredibly incompetent. All store owners that buy should have knowledge on how to detect fakes.
@@treyburro5525 especially with a short turnaround
Now if the cards were found out fake MUCH later via a more thorough test itd be a diff story
So sorry that happened to you dude. But I'm glad to know the light test so thanks for the info on that.
Thank you for sharing your story. It's awful that there are people who do this. I guess I better start checking my cards too. I tend to only buy from reputable sellers online, but you never know..
a $10 jeweler's loupe is also a very nice tool to use when buying collectible cards(and a minute google search for how to distinguish the fakes)... every card i buy online gets checked by my loupe before it A: goes into my deck, B: goes into my collection, or C: get's returned for being fake. P.S. alternate 4th edition does not have a rosette pattern! so if its white bordered and not rosette, i'd break out the black light first to be sure.
Thanks for sharing.
Always bring a jeweler's loupe to a sale and check the rosette pattern, the green dot on the back etc. There are plenty of youtube vids to help you become more skilled at spotting fakes. Start with the assumption that people want to scam you. Hell, I buy from big renowed stores and even then I use a microscope on cards to verify they're real.
Sorry this has happend to you. It's getting worse every day. I can't imagine how many fakes are floating arround and the owners arent even aware, that half the "value" in their deck is not real.
Do not rely on the light test. It is very inaccurate, especially with newer fakes and also with newer genuine cards (from different printing facilities).
Try comparing cards with genuine cards from the same set.
Use a magnifying glass to check the dots on the back and the printing pattern around the dots. This has not been changed from Alpha to the present and is currently very reliable.
There is also microtext in the foil stamp on real cards.
And please keep up with newer fakes. All this information may be out of date tomorrow.
New subscriber just ran across your stuff alot of funny videos and then I saw this. Bummer man, I got scammed on a lotus in 2009 and ever since I will literally pull my jewelers loop out even in a LGS to verify now.
Glad you're here :)
im so sorry u sounded so sad while u recounted the story :(
Thats a big hit and sorry to hear about that ! But THANK YOU for making this video. I immediately went to some cards I have bought recently off eBay and did the light test thankfully they are ok, but I didn't even KNOW about the light test! Thanks man! Subbed and this was an entertaining and informative video.
Thanks! I'm glad you were able to find it useful.
How is everything fake? That is crazy. Thank you for sharing, I am going to through my collection to be very safe now.
That sucks. I’ve been scammed twice over the course of hundreds of deals… There’s always these little signs that look bad in hindsight but the trouble is even the real transactions have those little quirks in them, and most of the time they go through fine anyway. Tough but important lesson.
High quality fake cards have been able to pass the feel test for many years.
I would make more tests on the "recent" "real" cards to confirm they are authentic and not just latest generation fakes. I saw latest generation MH1 fakes in Beijing back in 2019 and they were nearly indistinguishable from real cards. I used a loupe and compared directly with cards from a box I opened to discover the fakes. Check every element like the set symbol, the artist credits, the black lining, etc...
Thank you for making the video. So many Magic players are oblivious to how good fake cards have gotten. Especially a streamer like Rudy who does videos on fake cards but those are only the fake cards he can detect, and he doesn't use or demonstrate loupe tests. So his videos become misinformation instead of information, regardless of how they were intended.
I would’ve threatened to get a lawyer involved. He sold fake cards and can be proven, so he broke copyright laws and knowingly sold a fraud
Most likely a fake account was used for the entire transaction
It can’t be proven. There’s literally no way to prove that these are the cards that were sold and not a second batch that he’s lying about.
Now obviously this isn’t the case, but legally nothing can be done
you live you learn! not a total loss, which is good. aside from glossy sheen and flimsiness of card stock, definitely familiarize yourself with the light test and recognizing the pattern of "waves" in the blue core paper. even more importantly, familiarize with the ink dot pattern on face and back of cards. if you don't have jewelers loupe, take some quality photos with your phone and zoom in on the taken photo and make note of the hexagon-like pattern of the print dots. this is important for making purchases and why i never purchase from anyone with blurry and limited photos. cheers to you, better luck moving forward, and thanks for making this video!
Yeah, I ended up buying a loupe after this video
Does the light test work for all cards? Like I went through some of my newly bought MH2 cards (straight from their sealed boxes bought at my LGS) and they had a dimmer, red light coming through and most of my MH2 cards had them...getting super worried
It does vary by printing. Don't worry, that is just how MH2 cards look. I checked mine that I opened myself and they look red and dim :)
@@8thPlaceDave Ok great! That’s definitely reassuring. I’m sorry about this collection though…I’ve gotten scammed too before and it feels terrible.
@@daviszhu2202 Thanks for the support and comment :)
Can confirm. My MH2 cards look remarkably similar to my proxies under the light test. You really want to use a jeweler’s loupe if you are doing serious buying/selling, the light test and bend test don’t quite cut it.
At any rate, it would probably be way too costly to proxy up entire boxes and packs? If anything they just get searched and resealed
Some newer double face cards fail the light test too.
Sorry for you getting scammed.
I have been playing since 1996 and own a lot of original cards. I first ran into fakes about 2 years ago. The fakes back then were very obvious, but the latest fakes are almost undetectable. They past the bend test. They pass the light test, but they do not pass the the jeweler's loop test. You use the jeweler's loop to look on the green synbol on the back of the card. Real cards have 3 red dots in the yellow reflection of the mana symbol, fake ones will have multiple red dots. Other than that, the new fakes coming out of Germany and Italy are almost undetectable. They are now even making complete holifoil cards, judges issued cards, and FNM holifoil trophy cards.
If you are going to buy singles, have a jeweler's loop with you.
Sorry to hear this happened scams are horrible, in effect scammers are con artists, door salesmen they act nice to get you comfortable enough to buy into what they are selling however this isn't true for some scams. I doubt the grand pre story id even real. I actually tried the lights test on cards I had opened from packs after reading what you said in the comments and alot of the newer cards in my collection failed the test aswell.
Moral of the story: when you decide to purchase a high value card or a collection of cards and you meet the seller ask him/her if you can see the cards and check them (light test, green dot test, bending test with a common one, compare test with real cards, etc). BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.
This reminds me of the time I was indirectly sold a fake Volcanic Island from a card shop for $250. In retrospect, there were similar red flags in my situation as well, but I was so inexperienced with this sort of ordeal, I thought nothing of it. I had recently began collecting 1 of each "true" dual land through Facebook, and had already acquired a Scrubland, Savanah, Bayou and Tundra successfully.
Long story short, be wary of expensive deals(especially online), never do transactions via PayPal Friends&Family and do not do ANY business with Woof & Dargon gaming!
Wow the shop sold you the fake card knowingly, or they just didn't authenticate it before selling?
@@8thPlaceDave not sure why my replies seem to keep disappearing, but in short, the store knew what they were doing.
You can probably sell the "Proxies" for a few dollars a piece and not take a complete bath. You're right it's crazy that this player spent retail on some of those cards getting the Chinese Super Clones. You're absolutely right about some being more real then others. I sometimes order the Chinese proxies and they vary from easily noticeable to basically you can't tell unless you rip them in half. I'm guessing the quality varies based off the factory/employee that ends up with your order. An interesting thing about ordering proxies too is these Chinese companies know they're doing this illegally and have US addresses that forward your cards after they get them in through customs.
4:55 Yeah totally roled that stinky Nat 1 on Insight
6:50 I think that one is the biggest red flag for scammers, even if it doesnt seems that bad in the first moment.
And good luck with your card deals in the Future, hope the 3k didnt hurt you that bad (I mean not like anyone wouldn't care to lose that money, I only hope you dont have to struggle with rent or something )
I’m sorry to hear that happened to you man. Something similar happened to me a long time ago, not mtg related though.
The colour on the back was a dead giveaway for me but as you said in the video its probably easier to tell on camera.
do you have a loupe? its a 2 second test with a loupe if you have the card in hand to tell a real card - have seen cards pass the light test and the "feel" test - but never the loupe or the holo stamp
The lengths some people go through instead of working for your money is insane.
All of those "cheap" fakes used to be semi expensive.
Fatal push and Inquisition were up around 15-20$
Teeg was really high before the reprint. Probably because of EDH.
Plus that fake sellers start out around 2.5$ Plus shipping from china. But if you buy a box set its closer to 90 cents (.90$), and you can enough singles they give a per card discount.
Not sure how accurate the light test is. Just tried it on my "In the Eye of Chaos" (confirmed real via red dot test by several LGS) and it was bright, but was dull on my Thassa's Oracle, dull on my Secret Lair Demonic Consultation, and mixed results on my pack fresh random Brother's War cards.
Update: did same test on Remove Enchantments (Legends), Tundra Wolves (Legends), Unsummon (Revised), Windfall (Urza's Saga), Jester's Cap (Ice Age) and Necrologia (7th Edition) and the light was bright, similar to my In the Eye of Chaos. Newer sets appear dull, such as any Brother's War or Dominaria Remastered cards I own. I wouldn't rely on only the light test you are using, check for the red dots in the green mana symbol on the back as well.
I feel really bad for you. I've bought fake cards like this too, but I did it knowing full well that they are and just wanted duplicates of cards I already own to run in multiple commander decks. But I wouldn't try to ever pass them off as real cards to someone else later.
That said, I wouldn't say that these cards are completely worthless like you said. There are many players like myself who would be willing to buy them off you, and it may help recoup some of your losses. Obviously not every one of the cards you got scammed on are any good in commander, but every little bit there helps.
You don't seem naive. I can totally see this happening in the moment. Hopefully you are more vigilant in the future.
Srry for your loss there are terrible people out there. Definitely need to know how to spot fakes tho this is a must
Oof, shame there's no way to get ahold of that person and hold them accountable.
Here is a little bit of money to help recover a bit of the losses. I know it's not much but if others chip in then we can get you back to break even.
About the DOM booster box, out of the cases I own, I’ve never seen a box with the sealing lines on the name of the set. It’s normally shown on the side and back. Just my opinion on it. My bad that happened to you. It almost happened to me too but good thing I carry a jeweler loupe
Ouch, that's brutal man. Sorry to hear about this, any time I get a single whether it's a common or a 80$ ragavan I light check it, it's the only way to be sure nowadays. I've had nothing like this happen fortunately but I did get scammed out of booster packs back in the day when boxes were being mapped. It's a shame to because it was being done by some LGS owners... soured me to LGS boosters for a long time.
If I was spending that much money I'd be getting ID from the seller and taking down plate numbers. Pawn Shops do it, I would too before handing over 3k.
Ah yes. Reminds me of when a friend of mine put our combined collection of older and newer cards (going back to artificiers and older) in their backpack to pc them at a vendor and it got stolen. About 6000 cards just gone. That sucks. I feel you man. Luckily i had my IE Sapphire and the other really valuable ones in a seperate place.
Really appreciate you giving us the info, this is really handy.
Dude im so sorry. A couple of people in a pod I play made some trades with a mutual friend between us all and we gave him real cards for knockoffs and we didn't think anything of it because he's been playing forever and we all play together. It hurts man.
Having come from the yugioh community into the magic one, I’m naturally a lot more careful about my collection, especially since I own a lot of expensive cards (I like to collect the kaladesh inventions, and I also regularly play cedh at a shop that doesn’t allow proxies). I had my own run in with a dirtbag once, not nearly as bad as this though. I traded a few crappy cards for a sunbaked canyon, which ended up being fake after I checked later, but the kicker was that this guy stole my metalworker (luckily a nonfoil copy). And this was somewhat recent, about a year ago, so the card was sitting around 90$ or so. Since then I keep all of my more valuable cards in a separate binder that I don’t let out of my sight if it’s out of my backpack, and I usually only show it to players I’ve known for a while. I haven’t really gone as far as purchasing a collection since I’m a lot more of a player than collector (other than the inventions), but I’ll definitely make sure to check the cards before purchasing if I ever end up buying a collection.
Are fake cards more prevalent in Yugioh?
@@8thPlaceDave mostly scams/stealing rather than fake cards
@@8thPlaceDave yugioh has no reserved list and most expensive cards are reprinted very heavily eventually so being a collector is hard. It’s mostly about being a player than collector in yugioh. Playing meta decks is usually difficult to do since the new and powerful cards are printed at high rarity, and only get reprinted once they’re not so relevant anymore. Buying a top tier meta deck wouldn’t be as expensive as a modern deck, but it would probably be more expensive than a standard deck, at least from experience of several years ago. I don’t really keep tabs too much.
Also people trying to just trade scam is VERY common, treating your cards at lower value and/or overvaluing their own. It’s just a generally worse community than magic when it comes to trading/selling/buying.
Again, just from my personal experience and the voice of others I played with in my playgroup. Maybe the community has changed, but I’m not sure. Might be because the average age of the players is less, might be because konami literally has no communication with its players at all so respect for the LGS and that type of thing isn’t really spread around by the game itself. Could be a lot of different reasons, probably a matter of them all being factors lol.
Ah I see. I've heard that about Konami not communicating with players. I actually went to a goat format tournament recently. It was my first time going to a Yugioh tournament since about 2004. It was a fun experience, but I think I'll stick to just collecting oldschool Yugioh and playing Magic.
hearing stories like this really make me mad. If it sounds too good to be true? well..... be careful out there guys
Sorry to hear that you got scammed.
As a cheapskate Magic player myself: I think WOTC are also making this game way too expensive. For certain formats it feels like pay-to-win. So yay proxies.
I own some _very_ convincing Chinese proxies of high value legacy and vintage cards, because I like playing these formats, and I refuse to pay $500 for a dual land. Double-sleeved, nobody can tell my proxies from real cards. But I'd never, ever sell or trade them.
That being said, I have sold some fairly expensive cards in the past, NM Gaea's Cradle, that sort of thing. And I just _can't_ believe it when people bought them without doing a light check. So far nobody properly checked my cards before buying them. I never sold proxies, but God damn, I really could have.
I guess owning high-quality proxies made me more aware of how easy it is to get bamboozeled.
i have many secret lair cards from Wizards directly that show light differently at different intensities depending on where on the card you shine the light. If I were you, I'd take them all and mail them to a card grading service or appraiser and just have them scrutinized by a professional. Not sure if you said anything like this, but i am just skimming this video atm. Also, I've cracked packs recently and noticed that some cards are printed with a heavier gloss and an "unusual" cardstock feel, so I'm dubious when it comes to accurately distinguishing between real and fakes nowadays. The proxies have become so good (with foil stamps even) that I just don't think that most regular joes can tell without a set of loupes or some good magnification, and even then, most don't know what to look for.