"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." So you can make more money right Jon? I'm all for death positivity or even just plain morbid curiosity. But this ain't it chief.
@@shewithwings yeah. The theft or coerced acquisition of bones from marginalised people shouldn’t be destigmatised at all. Donated remains? Sure. Bones from robbed graves? No. (One of my colleagues’ jobs is to repatriate bones from Aboriginal Australians from museums/collections around the world. People still defend the theft of these bones, collectors would stalk out funerals in the 19-20th century and steal the bodies once the families left. She has to negotiate for their return. It’s disgusting).
they definitely have the bones of someone's murder victim..... that whole "documentation isn't needed for you to sell us someone's bones" thing was creepy as hell
Someone needs to actually investigate into them. Could uncover some dark shit. Also guess I know what's my answer to the "What would you do to get rid of a body ?!" question now.
I'm not saying I am a murderer, but if I was a murderer I think burke and hare'ing some bones to this guy would probably be a good option for hiding bodies.
Honestly, at this point, it's irrelevant whether there is a real, or purely semantic distinction between 'responsibly sourced' and 'ethically sourced'. The fact that they accept human skeletal remains from absolutely anyone, through their website, with effectively no system for vetting the seller and source of the remains, makes a mockery of even their 'responsibly sourced' claim.
It doesn't seem like the spines even had individual labels on them. Heck, in natural history museums you label every bone you can. I would even use a microscope to label bat ribs so if that ribcage became separated from the rest of the specimen it could be relocated.
The way he carefully selects his language is so eerie to me. The "responsibly sourced" because he knows they aren't ethical. Calling human remains "human osteology", which is an odd way to use the term anyway, almost to distance them from being human beings and dehumanize them. And not even to go into the repeated videos of his disrespectful handling of the remains, packing merch IN remains, letting his pets play with the bones, all while saying he handles them with the "greatest care and respect". As a forensic anthropologist, I really appreciate you treating this with such seriousness. This isn't just an internet outrage that will fade with time. This is something that we are really working toward finding a way to stop. For people who have been asking "well then what to you do with remains that don't have paperwork and museums won't take", contact human rights organizations (BABAO for example, often knows of resources), contact actual medical or educational institutions, or law enforcement - there is no need for profit-making graphic designer middlemen. A lab I used to work in would occasionally get old medical prepped remains and send them for DNA sampling to see if we could locate any potential living family. It cuts out anyone making a profit off these people's lives and can bring them and their families closure.
As someone who's only taken 1 semester of bio anthropology, and truly only knows the basics of the basics of the history of bone trading and forensics, it is truly horrifying seeing him talk about his "collection" I cannot imagine what it's like to watch his videos while being an expert in a field that deals with this and has had to learn about this dark history in much greater depth than my 1 semester course required
i can verify this. as a student at a uni with a huge anatomy museum and lab, i know that they receive skeletons (donated) that are vetted, mostly because in the olden days med students had to actually carry human skeletons for school, and now some families literally have skeletons in their closets. if you really can’t figure out what to do with the human remains, calling law enforcement might help.
Exactly, there is no need for human remains to be bought or sold at all- even for the sake of art. They're beyond monetary value and the only reason people like this can "collect" them is because the living have not gone to more extensive lengths in order to properly care for them. It's one thing to have your own relatives made into these art pieces etc- it's an entirely other thing to desecrate a stranger's corpse when sculptures/molds/ could accomplish the same look.
@@appleBEEZ yep. I’ve seen an artist here on RUclips incorporate her grandparents’ ashes into a portrait painting of them as a loving tribute. There’s a big difference between caring for and paying tribute to deceased people, and using their remains as props and toys. Doesn’t matter if they’ve been dead for 10 years or 100 years, human remains deserve to be treated with dignity and compassion.
especially if your reasoning for obtaining it is "the museums can't collect them because they don't have an official record? don't worry! I can fix that!"
@@kittikat4124 I know story where a museum has had a skeleton of a man up on display *against* the explicit wishes of that man (Charles Byrne) Their bar is already in the ocean and this tiktoker looked at it and saw a limbo competition
Seeing tiktoks of him where he let his pets play with the bones and act goofy with them was the most disgusting bs. Like it was already fucked up, but that... Jfc.
@@NormandyFoxtrot, that does sound oddly wholesome. Same vibe as my "Look, if my cats eat me after I'm dead, then at least they're getting fed" stance.
there are people who do ethical taxidermy that can provide more information about the animals they work with than this guy can about LITERAL HUMAN BEINGS
I think it’s good to remember that in archeology, archeologists spend a LONG time trying to put together remains and give them their name and story back. Where as this is just plain creepy and morally disgusting.
@@edgarnello9165 “personal use” can still be fine. Like I’m personally fascinated with this kind of stuff, I would love to own some bones for no other reason than to appreciate their scientific and human value (like, that used to be a person. There’s an awe to that). I don’t think that’s inherently wrong, as long as we’re making sure the bones had belonged to willing participants.
@@thedestroyasystem this tho, like if the person wants their bones sold then that's fine, honestly to me it's similar to taxidermy (except with actual consent involved) Edit: thought I should mention I am one of those people who want their bones sold, idk I think people looking at me long after my death would vibe
@@thedestroyasystem you want a skull or any human remains as decor go get the plastic stuff. In your awe you’re dehumanizing the person you purchased. If you can’t see what wrong with the last sentence, you’re not that different from JonBones.
“Why is the trade of bones so taboo?” Because we live in a society that makes it necessary for certain people to do extreme things for money. Also, historically the people’s bones that were being traded belonged to marginalized classes like the untouchables in India.
It’s painful how some people are unable to comprehend the extreme poverty and conditions many people live in. There was a reason low caste people were targeted in India, either accept the payment or the remains will be stolen anyway.
The fact that so many of those bones are of people who were continuously exploited in my country during their lives and even in death, they still continue to be exploited is very disturbing. Untouchable people are still a VERY harmed community and the fact that their bones have been shipped off to somewhere just to be showcased like that is just…
Also the fact that in Hinduism, our bodies are cremated and the untouchable caste are the cremation undertakers (which is such a sacred job) yet their remains are being disrespected like this.
@@Liam_Phoenix India has in place a caste system that sort of ranks people’s class status based from birth. At the top of the caste is the religous leaders, the rulers, the wealthy, etc. as you go down the caste there are people who own land, work “regular jobs”, servants, etc etc. At the very bottom/ the outside of the cast is called those who have been outcast. They’re deemed untouchable because the caste system labels them akin to filthy. It’s very hard to move up and down in the caste system (maybe even almost impossible) but it practically is impossible to escape being labeled s an untouchable.
If you want bones, there are probably perfect resin replicas around. What creeps me is why there's no law regulation on this 'commerce'. In Italy, as far as I know, you CANNOT sell human bones and even can't have them in your possession unless you are a certified physician (even my cousin couldn't keep a skull and he's a surgeon).
the fact that its illegal in most places to sell human remains is probably why it's not "federally regulated". Because it's not exactly a market that people should be trying to pursue to begin with. The regulation is just "wtf no don't do that!"
Places like Amazon sell anatomical models of skeletons both articulated and disarticulated. Mine helped me ace osteology classes, but still based on a real person and should still be treated so the respect.
@@roie1077 even replicas of real skeletons would be better than just whole-sale using the real bones at least this way the real bones can be given proper respect
@@mallk238 im planning on using a skeleton in a coffee table. and i already planning on using anatomical skeletons, partly because it would be awful if i broke the tabletop and spilled coffee on real bones, and i dont have to worry about my place being haunted.
Putting my cynical hat on, Jon doesn't plan for this to be a lifetime+ lasting company, there's no profit for them to gather up bunch of people but only be able to get the "product" to sell on( ew,ew,eew 🤢) up to several decades from now.
If I've learned anything from "Ask a Mortician" is while yes people can donate their bodies to science and all these other things there needs to be or should be content not only from the dead person but their family as well if they have family members who are still alive and would be traumatized if someone took their relatives bone to sell without their knowledge. Like... if someone took my dads bones without even looking in my direction I don't care what loophole says they could do that I'd be throwing all types of hands and fists
I really don’t think family members should consent what I do with my body while alive or dead! That’s akin to asking if they need consent for burial or cremation. It’s more important that the family knows what I want and make sure I m honored the way I want to be
If the person has an advance directive and/or a will their family will be told that family but they have absolutely no right to upend what the deceased planned for their dead body. It also should be noted that people should in general respect the wishes of the dead.
I'm currently someone who getting my degree in Archeology and Forensic Anthropology as well as someone just generally interested in death and the rituals/beliefs different cultures build around it and this store disgusts me. As much as having skeletons from all over the world would be scientifically intriguing, I would never accept them if someone just sold them or gave them to me without any available information to show they were responsibly and ethically sourced and not just straight up stolen or taken through other dubious means. ESPECIALLY INDIGINOUS BODYS! Like 10 times out of 10 I will always agree to return remains yo a tribe or group should want them back to preform burial practices and respect their dead. There is a reason selling bones is stigmatized and for a good one at that. All throughout history people have stolen bodies or killed just to get a quick buvk and it's continued to this day. I'd be aiming to make things more ethical and not less stigmatized. And one other thing, why would private citizens with no medical or scientific education or job need a skull for study? Are we back in the days were random asshats studied bumps on skulls to promote eugenics?
Not at ALL trying to justify what this guy is doing (it's super effed up in so many ways), just wanted to answer your question about what a private citizen with no medical/scientific background would want a human skull for? I have an art degree and can say that we used skeletons a LOT in university. There's even an anatomy for artists class at the university I attended. Many professional artists I know have skulls that they use for study. HOWEVER they use super expensive anatomically correct replicas, not actual human bones.
yes this! they already banned trade like this in a lot of countries when people would grave rob/murder to sell to research, medical or educational institutions. now most cadavers received are all from body donors who have signed a whole tone of legal documentation (that at times also requires agreement from family members) to donate their body after death.
@@mudbucket1354 Keep an open mind about different cultures because you still will be looking into cultural anthro as well. Even if it's some thing that angers you remember there's often a reason for it. Also, really study anatomy as much as you can and remember there's always a margin for error with both Forensic and Archeology. Just because you think a skill might belong to one people doesn't mean it does. And just because you think ancient people meant to use a certain thing a certain way doesn't guarantee it was. Again keep an open mind. And finally, really talk to all your Anthropology, history, and related teachers. Get a feel for the area you want to study within it, what the challenges for them, and how they over came them. I know it all sounds random but it will help you as you go along.
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." Don't we miss the good old days when people would comb battle fields to make dentures out of fallen soldier's teeth?
I hope Caitlin from Ask a Mortician talks about this soon cos I’m really interested in her POV as a mortician etc. Also the TikToks just roasting him done by actual osteologists and archaeologists is just *chefs kiss*
I actually don't know if I want to hear Caitlins take. I had to read a chapter of one of her books for a Death Culture class. Anyways we had a whole discourse class discussion about how in the reading she described a dead black woman's body as "a voodoo priestess" because her hair was unkempt during death. Anyways she's lowkey a white feminist. Like the comment was super racist. Sometimes I feel like she says things for the sake of being an edge lord.
People are mentioning traditional cultural practices that use human bones, so I feel like I should bring up two things: 1) cultures are neither set in stone, nor inherently sacred; pernicious and harmful aspects can and should be criticised and reformed, and 2) cultures all around the world have been using facsimiles of things in place of actual things for _thousands_ of years; for example, wealthy ancient Egyptians would be buried with clay models of servants in lieu of actual servants. Using animal bones or fake bones is not out of the question, in fact, there’s almost certainly a precedent for doing so.
also um, 3) the cultural practices that use human bones are, for a large part, about using the bones of people that you actually KNOW, or know the enemies of, or have a connection to. It's not about just buying random bones on the internet that were stolen from paupers' graves
@@jeancolley8908 Yeah, this whole topic is out of my wheelhouse but fuck that's my main takeaway. Shady shit aside it really seems like they care about human bones and not the *actual human* the bones came from. Shit sucks. Also, speaking of shady shit; fucking hell the vocabulary used by them is awful. Big fan of morbid shit but geez, these ethical dudes feel super unethical :/
Yes!! Do we now agree that human sacrifice is not okay? Yes, and there are so few cultures that still do that. Is it okay to disturb the grave of a sacrifice for “science” absolutely fucking not. Just recently scientist dug up a young girl who was a sacrifice victim and were studying her and like, dont do that. Just let the poor girl rest. Yes in the culture she was part of, it was considered a high honor to be a sacrifice and was something that could be turned down, but this was still a child who had her life taken and now her body is in a lab instead of the very carefully made gravesite that was specifically hers and was well cared for for years. I wish science would quit digging up bodies just because they felt like it, its so incredibly disrespectful
@@iblame_nargles the red flag of exploitation is rigging because of there terminology. They Do not give a rats arse about who the bones used to be. It is blatant. They almost seem to be some fetishism of the bones. Its extremely paternalistic like our ancestors having human zoo's. Which were around until the 1920's.
When I first saw Jon’s bones come up in my fyp back in 2020 it instantly rang alarm bells. I commented on one of his videos asking about his sources and he was super vague, just said “bodies donated to science”. I said his collection really reminded me of body worlds and similar exhibitions. He denied it, saying “that was different, those bodies were from unclaimed Chinese prisoners”. Well turns out he has been sourcing the bones from China as well, and they were almost certainly from similar backgrounds as Body Worlds. He’s been trying to avoid this coming out for a long time now. Glad public opinion has turned against him, back in 2020 all the comments were basically “that’s so sick bro”.
...if it's bodies donated to science they'd be on labs and colleges, not a random dudes apartment!!!! Holy shit tik tok. You can ban minorities talking about issues but let the man selling human remains go?!
ohh you know damn well that when they say "taboo" and "destigmatize" they actually mean they want people to stop (rightfully) calling them out for their shady bullshit
I can’t believe he tried to make it out like the bones he sells are all for educational purposes, when his “spine wall” was purely for his personal collection. Like I don’t think he was selling any of the bones hanging around that room in his house, he just wanted to display an ungodly number of human remains.
He hung them on a wall there's no way they can be used in a medical setting anymore, they should be stored and preserved or even better, given back to their community because he sure as hell ain't handling them with any ounce of respect...
@@livcaitbff that's what I was thinking too. Also to the other person that commented, I wonder how many of those spines get chipped from being hung up like that. that's so disrespectful to people that were already treated like trash in their lifetime.
Honestly that wall is so horrifying, I cannot think of anything worse than my spine ending up on Jon's spine wall. This shouldn't be legal, all those bones should be reunited with the rest of their skeletons and laid to rest peacefully or at least properly preserved, stored and handled with respect by TRAINED professionals.
That sounds like something a serial killer would make as a trophy wall, and yet he doesn't see anything wrong with doing that for personal collection use....that is absolutely disgusting and the people whose remains are in his custody deserve proper care and respect. It's disturbing that he thinks this is ok!
As someone whose studied a little bit of archeology and curatorship/museology; museums will never accept something without legit documentations and even then, human remains are a massive no-no in the museum world nowadays. If any of the family of the dead person is still alive; it can lead tons and tons of legal work plus just bad publicity for the museum. Added to that the curator (and curator team) can lose their jobs for accepting shotty artifacts.
As someone currently studying this and planning to go into museums: a LOT of museums will still accept things from private collections and from the private collections trade. There’s a concentrated effort to stamp this stuff out but it still happens. Human bones? No, as you said, there’s a whole lot of legal trouble to be had with skeletal remains, but objects are still readily being accepted that are unsourced. Then there’s also the issue of museums having massive collections of skeletons that aren’t known to the public, most of which are very unethical to have.
@@clairehorniblow6014 Yep. I won't deny that museums still accept private collections and do private trades. However, the reward vs. the trouble if caught isn't worth it for most. Added to that is the international trouble it can cause. For example, there's a collection of ancient I believe Polish or Hungarian items that aren't on display or in any museum right now because of lack of documentation and the dispute over which country owns them. Finally, I'm not surprised if some museum have private bones and they are disputed. In Canada and Britain (which are the two museum systems I'm familiar with), I won't be surprised if they have bones from Indigenous backgrounds and they have kept them because of some bullshit reason.
@@frogdoin oh yeah, Australian here and a LOT of European museums have indigenous Australian remains, some of which are/were mislabelled as animal remains. There has been a lot of effort in repatriation in recent years but there’s a loooong way to go to return the remains to their rightful custodians.
Another museology student here. I just wanted to say that I agree with you guys so, so much. I don't think there can be any way in which these bones can be "responsibly sourced".
As a Tumblr veteran (who's still using the app on a regular basis), I feel like an immortal being who's watched history repeat itself a thousand times before and is now tired and cynical. Weirdly enough, though, I'm also very intrigued. Like watching a natural disaster unfold before your eyes and feeling bad for the damage but also knowing you can't do much about it.
In this day and age, one could simply 3d-scan a skeleton from a medical collection and make a near perfect replica of it without causing damage to the original artifact or having to source anything. There are some amazing replicas already out there for medical reference. You don't have to dive into the murky waters of selling human remains for profit when you can get the same "educational" result from cultivating a wide collection of replicas. And there are ethical ways of owning bones: There are quite a few cases where individuals have specified in their wills what should be done with their remains, so if grandpa wants his skull left on the mantelpiece so he can watch over his family from beyond the grave, hey cool, you do you grandpa. It's just when you start getting into someone taking grandpa's skull and selling it on ebay that you start getting into record scratch NOPE territory.
I just remembered we 3D printed bones from designs made by a uni for the uni to use. I can't remember much... But if a high schooler could do it, Jon could.
As someone with a fascination in fossils, bones, and the science of biological evolution. I have purchased and dug for fossils etc. I have also talked with places like the folks over at The Black Hills Institute and Dr. Jack Horner. I can assure you the professionals rarely ever purchase from small groups like "Jonsbones". It does happen but rarely. So yeah... Jon is full of shit.
Tbh I saw the wall of spines and thought he was a serial killer. There is a difference between collecting something meaningful from someone (some people collect skulls/etc for momento Mori) but a…. Spine?
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." His business seems to justify the stigmatization, though. Human remains of unknown sources being sold to randos (there's no way it's just for "medical students" or "education". He'll sell to anyone). The "stigmatization" comes from real ethical concerns, and his business is bringing forth those concerns rather than dispelling them...
Already stating that you want to de-stigmatize the "bone trade" is beyond disgusting when human remains are included into the equation. Especially like you stated, without qualifications. These remains are extremely fragile, not just physically but culturally for generation's.
The fact they refer to the bones themselves as osteology is telling of their ignorance. It would be like going to a greenhouse and it saying “we sell ecology”.
I just started this video, but I hope she talks about his selling of indigenous bones and blocking of the words sami and indigenous in his comments. For those who don't know, it is not legal to sell the bones of indigenous people, not in North America. Simply because most of these bones are taken from burial sites or the bodies final resting place, often placed or buried in a specific way due to tradition. These bones aren't donated. They're OLD bones taken from their resting place, no one consented to these bones being sold. There have been so many fights about indigenous bones. The last of the beothuk people (indigenous people of newfoundland, canada), shanawdithit's skull was sent, WITHOUT the consent of any who knew her or even other tribes that lived in the area, to England. Her skull was lost in wwii blitzing. The rest of her body, the graveyard where she was buried, not even with her own people but in a church, was destroyed for traintracks. Shes gone. Forever. The tribe im from, my dads, they've been fighting in courts for a long time over bones of our ancestors and cultural items that were taken overseas hundreds of years ago, displayed in museums there. These items should be displayed here. In canada. They should be on tribal land, where they were originally from. The remains should be here, returned so we can perform the rites and lay them to rest properly. Sorry I went on a huge tangent but, this guy is the slimiest. Not only has he been buying and selling bones of sami people who lived long ago, but also the bones of Indias lowest caste, people who only allowed their bones to be bought so their families could survive. These bones that were sold to the Indian government to be sold to medical schools. But now this white American has them, and is selling them. And also not properly storing them. He has spines hung up, correct me if I'm wrong but... I don't think thats how you respectfully or properly store remains Edit: she did!! Thank you!! Love it
You’re right, that’s not how bones are properly stored or handled. I’m not an expert by any means but I do remember back in anatomy lab they were very adamant we keep the real bones together with their labeled bins and put folded towels down on the tables so we wouldn’t damage or scratch them while handling them. It’s appalling enough that he has them in the first place, but to handle them so carelessly? Sickening.
Boy howdy do I love living a life full of hardship, barely having basic rights and not even having the right to choose what happens to me when I die, and then finding out when I do die that I've ended up in some weirdo's sPiNe WaLL as a decoration!
Realistically, probably very few (but not none). There are a lot more destitute people than there are murder victims, and we know most bones in the bone trade are from the destitute. It could surely be considered a moral crime to profit off of the remains of the poor though.
A RUclipsr called Med life crisis is a British cardiologist and he traveled to India to investigate the sale of human bones. His video was very interesting:)
I thought he his account was to educate so when I asked a question about an infant's skull and he answered in a super sarcastic and rude way because he obviously didn't know the answer I realized he was not legitimate. It's not a an educational account, it's unright.
Amanda: *Telling us about the lack of verification required* Me: "Sounds like a way for a thorough serial killer to dispose of some bodies..." Amanda: "Now I'm not trying to give serial killers ideas but... "
So.....he's trying to emphasize how legit and respectful his business is..... and is like, "here's where we hang people's spines up on pegboard with hooks!" Gah.
That's what I thought they were at first. Like, either plastic or ceramic. It's what makes the most sense Couldve also made 3D print models for free instead of, yknow, selling them for thousands
Every time they use osteology (the study of human bones) to replace the word “bones” it is like nails on a chalkboard. They are selling bones. They are not selling the study of bones.
When I went on my first excavation there were human remains on the site. We were all told, pretty strictly, to respect them, to respect them as people who had names and thoughts and loved ones, and not to post any pictures of the skeletons online. That's how human bones SHOULD be treated.
right! their treatment of real people's bones is a joke to osteology and anthropology as a whole. its ridiculous for them to say they are doing this for the love of it. anthropology (at least nowadays for the most part) tries to put respect first whenever it can.
I'm from India, and just saying. Most people here, especially those of the "lower castes" do not usually donate their bodies. Because in our major religions like Hinduism, cremation is the post death procedure, so the ashes of the body are auspicious. Hence, making a lot of people and their families not comfortable with donating the whole bodies. So idk where my man is getting these bodies.
Unfortunately, given the preference for cremation, the most logical assumption is that most (if not all) of the skeletal remains found in this company's possession are stolen. There are probably entire families out there that have no idea their dead relation has been grave-robbed for use in this incomprehensibly unethical man's "spine wall" and product list.
homestly, destigmatising death is a real thing that should happen (ex: Caitlin Doughty talking about the death industry and funerary practices) but selling minorities bones that likely came from grave-robbing is not it
him: i respect the people whos bones i collect 🥺🥺 also him: *twirling human femur*, *has a carving of his businesses name into a human bone* *lets his cat play with a human spine and laughs about it* and SO MUCH MORE ON V I D E O
I have a PhD in biological anthropology and I teach cadaver based anatomy at medical schools. I got blocked by him 3 twice for challenging his ethics. Blocking experts in the field you pretend to have knowledge in isn’t a good look.
I want Caitlyn of the Ask A Mortician to discuss this! Since she knows a lot about death laws and human remains laws. PS: "SPINE WALL" IS SOME PARIS CATACOMBS BS AND HE IS A WEIRDO.
Ngl When I first heard about this situation from tumblr, I thought they were just being hyperbolic. I watched like two of his tiktoks and was like "How could selling antique bones to legitimate places of education be bad? It's better than them being privately owned and used as a decoration by some eccentric geek." I was wrong. I was horribly horribly wrong. This goes deep and Jon is beyond sketchy.
Ummm okay so there isn’t a stigma among the people who should be researching bones and learning history and anatomy…but this should not be sold to random people. These should be donated to facilities and universities…this should be banned. Honestly. It’s not education. It’s disgusting that this man and group of people are doing this.
I used to follow this guy for his cat, “Chonk.” Cat aside- selling bones seems like an unethical practice. I’m in nursing school and they literally have all of these things for you to study. $2,200 for bones?! For that amount you can literally go to school to study bones.
Not only just studying bones, but actually learning about what the different structure of these bones relate to and their anatomical significance. And also being able to study wet specimens and whole cadavers from body donors.
About that whole 'sell us your bones with no further questions asked' thing... I'm 100% convinced they've been selling the bones of literal murder victims. I'm seriously speechless
it's honestly never going to stop bothering me that tumblr is the site that's forever associated with boneghazi when all of the actual drama of it all (including the offer to sell the bones??) happened on FACEBOOK. I know that's not really related, it's just the hill I'm set to die on.
SAME. I'm still on tumblr and I know for a fact that woman was shamed off the internet for that. No one on tumblr was going "whoohoo you go girl!" If they were, they were deranged or trolling.
@@ontxtteredwxngs YEAH literally the only reason it was on tumblr at all is because someone called them out and was warning people about them! why did this become tumblr's problem lmao
@Aura Fluff Yeah but (I can't believe I'm about to say this lmao) that was their own toe they wanted made into a necklace, so like. It's weird, but it's not like robbing black graves bad. 😂
@@jasiejam didnt the person who was making the toe necklace turn out to have a human skull of an orphan or something? I cant believe i wrote that sentence, my god
Former mortician and crematory operator here: this is disgusting. I would talk to each person I took care of after their death and tell them to get out of their body, but these bones look loud. How could you have those people in your house like that?! They must be located in Colorado (the death industry’s Wild West) and if they aren’t, I hope all of this gets them shut down.
And do your Advanced Directive, Durable Power of Attorney FOR HEALTHCARE, and/or Five Wishes. All are legally binding documents (in the state of California) and it is required for next of kin to complete what you laid out for your services. You can get AD paperwork online for free!!!
Big big agree!! im a healthcare professional, get your advance directive done! super simple and free, keep a copy in your safety deposit box and ask your physician to keep a copy in your electronic health record.
So from the perspective of a person with a BS in medical anthropology and who is a current med student my view on this is that, do to the history of the bone trade and anthropology, old bones are extremely likely to have been procured unethically. More recent bones were often donated by the person directly to a specific institution (which is also true of most cadavers donated to medical schools), but older bones were often procured via graverobbing, deceit, or by praying on highly oppressed populations (or some combination of the three). Even if Jonsbones didn't have multiple tiktoks that prove his complete disregard for the human whose bones he sells, and if he wasn't overly defensive when people call out the issues with his site+social medias, his business is still sketchy simply because he doesn't have any sort of vetting process for the bones he purchases. Also you are completely right that a bachelors in anthropology is not enough of a qualification to determine how ethically sourced a bone is, that pretty much requires PhD level experience to be able to do with any real accuracy.
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." I think it should stay at least a little stigmatized if that will stop people digging up strangers graves to make some cash. Shockingly, pulling a Burke and Hare should not be even remotely acceptable.
I have been WAITING, for someone I follow to talk about him, my best friend and I find him so goddamned intriguing because we knew him back when he was at our school. He was recently scheduled to appear at our school for an Alumni panel about being a business owner and entrepreneur, the alumni manager wasn't aware of the issues with his company and when we got the email about how he had to pull out for "issues relating to his business" I knew mentioning it to someone at the school was the right thing to do, though we don't know if it was that or him pulling out that caused that, either way he didn't make the issues clear to the school and it's his fault. The worst part is that in our curriculum we learned about the East India company and caste in India so knowing he knew the problem with it and just waved it off was so jarring.
Wet specimens are preserved in liquid solution, the contents of which varies depending on the time it was preserved etc. You might have seen them in a museum before lots of them have wet specimens
My brother died in a car accident in April. PLEASE DO A WILL, PEOPLE! It’s a nightmare for your loved ones if you die without one. Also tell the people you love what you want to happen when you die even though the conversations are uncomfortable. For a few days, we had no idea whether my brother wanted to be buried or cremated. In those deepest moments of grief, you just want everything to be easy for your family. Also…his funeral cost $20k AUD. Dying is NOT cheap. 😔
This guy’s a grave robber with a thin veneer of aesthetics. Reminds me of that ad campaign by White Castle when they got a doctor to say that it was health food.
I would really like a Caitlin Doughty-Amanda conversation about this or similar topics. I didn't know Amanda was a death enthusiast, and I think Caitlin would have some really insightful comments to make about this!
can we also talk about how he says he legally obtains the bones from cadavers donated (presumably) for medical purposes but remains must be incinerated when they’re no longer needed
Pro Tip, check out the channel Ask a Mortician. I won't link cos auto mod, but she's fun and she's also from CA and she also talks about the rituals around death and dying.
Tbh I got vibes from the beginning Amanda’s seen her fair share of Caitlyn’s videos but mentioning a living will all but sealed the deal she’s a fellow deathling
It’s so odd to me, if one wants to collect bones, why wouldn’t you collect animal bones or replicas? What makes real human bones so appealing? It feels like they must either be into it for the bragging factor or they… enjoy the idea of ogling at the bones of someone who did not want them to be sold?? Hell, even people who collect animal bones show more respect to the lives of their owners than this guy ever has. For many collectors, owning an animal’s bones is accompanied by respecting and appreciating both the animal and its life. There is no respect or appreciation involved in owning the bones of an unwilling person.
The way that I had a class in college with one of the people on the staff has me stunned… didn’t even know about this omg (I go to Parsons School of Design) I also have mutual followers/acquaintances with Jon Jon 😭
There should only be a few reasons for someone to own skeletal remains: 1) Science 2) Forensics 3) Medical Reasons (teaching, reference) 4) Scaring guests by hiding it in the bathroom closet.
would like to say, is it just me or do none of the specimens have identifying tags? because they’re kinda important? so that you know which body part belonged to which person? even if they’re unidentified?
this reminds me of that tik tok account that did crime scene cleanups and would show legitimate brain matter and horrible scenes and it was technically okay but like morally wrong
'Crime Scene Cleaning' do the same on RUclips, they're usually quite respectful, but I think they really push the line with some of the things they show
@@d_inkz At least with crime scene cleanup you know what youre getting. And it helps to remember they are desensitised to it, far more than we are. Once again, not morally right. Just an explanation for why they may push the line or take it too far.
The process of antiquarians/looters selling their art & archaeological artifacts to an actual vendor then buying them back to establish "paperwork" for the looted artifact is actually really common in the archaeological world - this feels like the same thing tbh
“the hellscape that WAS tumblr” ill have you know tumblr is alive and well and still very much a hellscape (altho less so these days… maybe i just follow better people now 😂)
this guy is so upsetting bc i genuinely would love to have a bone from a loved one to remember them by once they pass but thats very difficult to do. then this guy COLLECTS the remains of people??? in order to SELL them??? like he’s some type of pokemon puppy mill hybrid????? barf.
it's a little ghoulish but I'd 100% sign my bones away in a will in exchange for money in the here and now if that were on the table, I'm going to donate my remains anyway... but on the other hand, selling your future bones is very capitalist dystopia
I am a professional archaeologist , and as part of receiving my degree I had to take an osteology course. All of our skeletons were donated by individuals who noted they wanted their bodies donated to science and died in the university hospital. I myself have done the paperwork to donate my body to be studied by anthropology students when I die so my body can go back into the field I love so much. To properly donate your body, there is legal paperwork you have to fill out. If remains do not come with that paperwork, than it is not ethical, not legitimate, and borderline illegal. By the way, grave robbing is a federal crime in the United states. As an archaeologist , I constantly work hard to atone for the sins of archaeology past, especially since my area of specialty is in the middle east, an area ripe with history of exploitation and looting. Also, as an FYI, to work as a professional archaeologist or forensic anthropologist, minimum requirements are usually a bachelor's, plus a field school, plus 2 years field experience, and almost always a masters or PhD as well. If a person claims to be a professional without these qualifications (at least in the US, Europe, and Middle East) they are not legit.
“We want to de-stigmatise the bone trade!!” buddy, your selling human bones to anybody who pays the right price. people are always gonna think it’s weird
Really? I've been getting into the scene and haven't come across that (not to say it doesn't happen or that I don't believe you, just that I haven't personally experienced it).
@@Monocultured01 I truly apologize to break you into the scene this way. I still think you are likely to have an incredible time but....and I cannot stress this enough....eyes sharp, knife ready.
And yes, I've seen people with decorations of bones, preserved organs etc, but they weren't real, they were plastic/silicone replicas, never the real things.
Yeahhh listen. Medical community doesn't need your help Jon. We have LEGAL cadavers to work with. Not to mention, a plastic skull is way more useful to a student than a real one. It's less fragile,can be taken apart and is nicely marked and colored
Neither do the anthropologists, we have huge collections ourselves (in unis and museums) which are usually well documented, well preserved and treated with respect.
In elementary school we actually sang a song about John that went " Jave u seen the ghost of John? Long white bones with the skin all gone. Wouldn't it be chilly with no skin on?" I'm actually amazed that the creepy John I once sand about as a child became an entrepreneur and started up his own business. 😆
This is reminding me that there was quite literally a skeleton in the closet of the art academy I went to in highschool. It was in really bad shape but yup, it was real.
There was also a literal child skeleton just displayed in a cabinet at my old high school. People just sat around it, shooting shit and playing on their phones, not thinking about what remained of the little human being, who had to have been around three years old. Sure as shit she didn't dream of ending up behind glass and dust and used for teens giving each other spooks. She had chubby cheeks and cried when she stubbed her knee. She laughed and played and wanted to grow up some day. Her mother carried her for nine months and filled her with her hopes and dreams and love. All to become an object forgotten. I couldnt stop thinking about the child, so I made a full body painting of her skeleton behind the glass. A remediation of her objectification. It was supposed to be a mirror for the viewer. I don't know if it came across well, but I exhibited it in a gallery and held a speech to that effect, and it won a prize and I sold it as well. Unfortunately I moved high schools before I finished the painting (as you can imagine I was not a popular girl in the milleu of mid 00s high schools) so I never knew what became of the skeleton, and if she was ever laid to rest. I wish I had had the guts to actually speak up against the school, but I was 16 and only made a painting and by selling it (which I regret) I feel like I just continued the explotiation of her body. I hope the newer, more informed generation actually notices the skeleton among all the other cabinet clutter and says 'WHAT THE HECK?' Because there's NO reason for it to be in that high school.
Strange laws are usually set because something has happened to make it necessary for the state to declare that this is not okay. Jon's Bones might be the reason why private ownership/the selling of human remains might become illegal.
To anyone interested in this topic, Medlife Crisis (who is a cardiologist of Indian descent from the UK) went to India to dig (pardon the pun) more information about the bone traders there.
this whole thing just sounds soooo sketchy! I didn't even know about this and you really did a great job providing all the facts - thank you for bringing attention to this!
Thank you for sourcing everything ❤❤❤ I’m doing a big college paper dissecting jonsbones’ arguments and finding TikTok’s is so hard and your video essay gave me such a good jumping off point
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." So you can make more money right Jon?
I'm all for death positivity or even just plain morbid curiosity. But this ain't it chief.
I was thinking “we want to de-stigmatized so people will get off our backs and stop trying to shut us down for doing illegal and unethical things”
And depending on what country you live in, highly illegal.
somethings should be stigmatized
@@shewithwings yeah. The theft or coerced acquisition of bones from marginalised people shouldn’t be destigmatised at all. Donated remains? Sure. Bones from robbed graves? No.
(One of my colleagues’ jobs is to repatriate bones from Aboriginal Australians from museums/collections around the world. People still defend the theft of these bones, collectors would stalk out funerals in the 19-20th century and steal the bodies once the families left. She has to negotiate for their return. It’s disgusting).
YESSS SHEKNIVES YESSSSSS
they definitely have the bones of someone's murder victim..... that whole "documentation isn't needed for you to sell us someone's bones" thing was creepy as hell
Someone needs to actually investigate into them. Could uncover some dark shit. Also guess I know what's my answer to the "What would you do to get rid of a body ?!" question now.
Right!!!
Guarantee some of those "lower cast" specimens are murder victims sold for money. There is just no way they're all ethical.
I'm not saying I am a murderer, but if I was a murderer I think burke and hare'ing some bones to this guy would probably be a good option for hiding bodies.
@@ArturGlass.C He has indigenous remains that were unearthed when scientists were doing racist studies to "prove" that they were an inferior race
Honestly, at this point, it's irrelevant whether there is a real, or purely semantic distinction between 'responsibly sourced' and 'ethically sourced'. The fact that they accept human skeletal remains from absolutely anyone, through their website, with effectively no system for vetting the seller and source of the remains, makes a mockery of even their 'responsibly sourced' claim.
it low key creates an economic incentive for grave robbing and murder
I can see him being sued for this or falls under illegal acts. In Canada it is. You can't buy/ sell human remains. Its a federal crime.
Period
The website also allows anyone to buy them so yeah thats fucking sketchy to me.
@@poposterous236 high key actually I'd say. Guys like this contribute to SO many issues in poor countries.
He has so many backbones yet not a single moral backbone.
It doesn't seem like the spines even had individual labels on them. Heck, in natural history museums you label every bone you can. I would even use a microscope to label bat ribs so if that ribcage became separated from the rest of the specimen it could be relocated.
He has the backbone of a chocolate eclair
The way he carefully selects his language is so eerie to me. The "responsibly sourced" because he knows they aren't ethical. Calling human remains "human osteology", which is an odd way to use the term anyway, almost to distance them from being human beings and dehumanize them.
And not even to go into the repeated videos of his disrespectful handling of the remains, packing merch IN remains, letting his pets play with the bones, all while saying he handles them with the "greatest care and respect".
As a forensic anthropologist, I really appreciate you treating this with such seriousness. This isn't just an internet outrage that will fade with time. This is something that we are really working toward finding a way to stop.
For people who have been asking "well then what to you do with remains that don't have paperwork and museums won't take", contact human rights organizations (BABAO for example, often knows of resources), contact actual medical or educational institutions, or law enforcement - there is no need for profit-making graphic designer middlemen. A lab I used to work in would occasionally get old medical prepped remains and send them for DNA sampling to see if we could locate any potential living family. It cuts out anyone making a profit off these people's lives and can bring them and their families closure.
Anthropologist here. This whole thing is massively disgusting. It is straight up human remain trafficking.
As someone who's only taken 1 semester of bio anthropology, and truly only knows the basics of the basics of the history of bone trading and forensics, it is truly horrifying seeing him talk about his "collection" I cannot imagine what it's like to watch his videos while being an expert in a field that deals with this and has had to learn about this dark history in much greater depth than my 1 semester course required
i can verify this. as a student at a uni with a huge anatomy museum and lab, i know that they receive skeletons (donated) that are vetted, mostly because in the olden days med students had to actually carry human skeletons for school, and now some families literally have skeletons in their closets. if you really can’t figure out what to do with the human remains, calling law enforcement might help.
Exactly, there is no need for human remains to be bought or sold at all- even for the sake of art. They're beyond monetary value and the only reason people like this can "collect" them is because the living have not gone to more extensive lengths in order to properly care for them. It's one thing to have your own relatives made into these art pieces etc- it's an entirely other thing to desecrate a stranger's corpse when sculptures/molds/ could accomplish the same look.
@@appleBEEZ yep. I’ve seen an artist here on RUclips incorporate her grandparents’ ashes into a portrait painting of them as a loving tribute. There’s a big difference between caring for and paying tribute to deceased people, and using their remains as props and toys. Doesn’t matter if they’ve been dead for 10 years or 100 years, human remains deserve to be treated with dignity and compassion.
Obscure life tip: if you have something that a museum didn't want because it was too unethical to have, you probably shouldn't have it either.
especially if your reasoning for obtaining it is "the museums can't collect them because they don't have an official record? don't worry! I can fix that!"
Right? Like museums are built on theft, if not even they want it, then yikes
@@kittikat4124
I know story where a museum has had a skeleton of a man up on display *against* the explicit wishes of that man (Charles Byrne)
Their bar is already in the ocean and this tiktoker looked at it and saw a limbo competition
Yeah museums are absolutely not the bar for ethical choices so if even THEY won't take em? oh fucking boy
Seeing tiktoks of him where he let his pets play with the bones and act goofy with them was the most disgusting bs. Like it was already fucked up, but that... Jfc.
which goes to show they aren't properly cared for either
Holy shit!
@@NormandyFoxtrot, that does sound oddly wholesome. Same vibe as my "Look, if my cats eat me after I'm dead, then at least they're getting fed" stance.
there are people who do ethical taxidermy that can provide more information about the animals they work with than this guy can about LITERAL HUMAN BEINGS
We absolutely can. And that's coming from a guy who works with roadkill
@@tzcaptor108 hell yeah taxidermy is awesome
@@tzcaptor108 thank you for taking roadkill and making it into art. I feel like it really honors the animal
EXACTLY
very good point
I think it’s good to remember that in archeology, archeologists spend a LONG time trying to put together remains and give them their name and story back. Where as this is just plain creepy and morally disgusting.
And try to use repatriation them when we can.
Exactly!!! I understand Using human remains for science but this looks like its for personal use
@@edgarnello9165 “personal use” can still be fine. Like I’m personally fascinated with this kind of stuff, I would love to own some bones for no other reason than to appreciate their scientific and human value (like, that used to be a person. There’s an awe to that). I don’t think that’s inherently wrong, as long as we’re making sure the bones had belonged to willing participants.
@@thedestroyasystem this tho, like if the person wants their bones sold then that's fine, honestly to me it's similar to taxidermy (except with actual consent involved)
Edit: thought I should mention I am one of those people who want their bones sold, idk I think people looking at me long after my death would vibe
@@thedestroyasystem you want a skull or any human remains as decor go get the plastic stuff. In your awe you’re dehumanizing the person you purchased. If you can’t see what wrong with the last sentence, you’re not that different from JonBones.
“Why is the trade of bones so taboo?”
Because we live in a society that makes it necessary for certain people to do extreme things for money. Also, historically the people’s bones that were being traded belonged to marginalized classes like the untouchables in India.
It’s painful how some people are unable to comprehend the extreme poverty and conditions many people live in. There was a reason low caste people were targeted in India, either accept the payment or the remains will be stolen anyway.
@@Bjorksbackyard Shit, I live in America and would sell my bones. Need cash. STAT!
Also it’s just fuckin weird
It makes the fact that he owns baby skulls much worse when he’s admitted that most of his collection came from unconsenually donated skeletons
The fact that so many of those bones are of people who were continuously exploited in my country during their lives and even in death, they still continue to be exploited is very disturbing. Untouchable people are still a VERY harmed community and the fact that their bones have been shipped off to somewhere just to be showcased like that is just…
Also the fact that in Hinduism, our bodies are cremated and the untouchable caste are the cremation undertakers (which is such a sacred job) yet their remains are being disrespected like this.
Who/What exactly are the "Untouchable people"???
@@Liam_Phoenix India has in place a caste system that sort of ranks people’s class status based from birth. At the top of the caste is the religous leaders, the rulers, the wealthy, etc. as you go down the caste there are people who own land, work “regular jobs”, servants, etc etc.
At the very bottom/ the outside of the cast is called those who have been outcast. They’re deemed untouchable because the caste system labels them akin to filthy.
It’s very hard to move up and down in the caste system (maybe even almost impossible) but it practically is impossible to escape being labeled s an untouchable.
If you want bones, there are probably perfect resin replicas around. What creeps me is why there's no law regulation on this 'commerce'. In Italy, as far as I know, you CANNOT sell human bones and even can't have them in your possession unless you are a certified physician (even my cousin couldn't keep a skull and he's a surgeon).
I’m very sure it’s the same in Germany.
the fact that its illegal in most places to sell human remains is probably why it's not "federally regulated". Because it's not exactly a market that people should be trying to pursue to begin with. The regulation is just "wtf no don't do that!"
Places like Amazon sell anatomical models of skeletons both articulated and disarticulated. Mine helped me ace osteology classes, but still based on a real person and should still be treated so the respect.
@@roie1077 even replicas of real skeletons would be better than just whole-sale using the real bones
at least this way the real bones can be given proper respect
@@mallk238 im planning on using a skeleton in a coffee table. and i already planning on using anatomical skeletons, partly because it would be awful if i broke the tabletop and spilled coffee on real bones, and i dont have to worry about my place being haunted.
They say “not your bones specifically” but why not? Surely the most responsible way to procure these bones would be directly through people’s wills.
Putting my cynical hat on, Jon doesn't plan for this to be a lifetime+ lasting company, there's no profit for them to gather up bunch of people but only be able to get the "product" to sell on( ew,ew,eew 🤢) up to several decades from now.
If I've learned anything from "Ask a Mortician" is while yes people can donate their bodies to science and all these other things there needs to be or should be content not only from the dead person but their family as well if they have family members who are still alive and would be traumatized if someone took their relatives bone to sell without their knowledge. Like... if someone took my dads bones without even looking in my direction I don't care what loophole says they could do that I'd be throwing all types of hands and fists
A fellow "Death Enthusiast"!
Fellow deathling!! You’re absolutely right, I get the vibe Amanda’s seen her fair share of Caitlyn’s videos
I really don’t think family members should consent what I do with my body while alive or dead!
That’s akin to asking if they need consent for burial or cremation.
It’s more important that the family knows what I want and make sure I m honored the way I want to be
If the person has an advance directive and/or a will their family will be told that family but they have absolutely no right to upend what the deceased planned for their dead body. It also should be noted that people should in general respect the wishes of the dead.
Hello fellow deathlings!
I feel Caitlyn would be this much out of words re all this mess.
Also YES! HAVE A WILL!!!
I'm currently someone who getting my degree in Archeology and Forensic Anthropology as well as someone just generally interested in death and the rituals/beliefs different cultures build around it and this store disgusts me. As much as having skeletons from all over the world would be scientifically intriguing, I would never accept them if someone just sold them or gave them to me without any available information to show they were responsibly and ethically sourced and not just straight up stolen or taken through other dubious means. ESPECIALLY INDIGINOUS BODYS! Like 10 times out of 10 I will always agree to return remains yo a tribe or group should want them back to preform burial practices and respect their dead. There is a reason selling bones is stigmatized and for a good one at that. All throughout history people have stolen bodies or killed just to get a quick buvk and it's continued to this day. I'd be aiming to make things more ethical and not less stigmatized. And one other thing, why would private citizens with no medical or scientific education or job need a skull for study? Are we back in the days were random asshats studied bumps on skulls to promote eugenics?
^Thinking about this the entire video
Not at ALL trying to justify what this guy is doing (it's super effed up in so many ways), just wanted to answer your question about what a private citizen with no medical/scientific background would want a human skull for?
I have an art degree and can say that we used skeletons a LOT in university. There's even an anatomy for artists class at the university I attended. Many professional artists I know have skulls that they use for study. HOWEVER they use super expensive anatomically correct replicas, not actual human bones.
yes this! they already banned trade like this in a lot of countries when people would grave rob/murder to sell to research, medical or educational institutions. now most cadavers received are all from body donors who have signed a whole tone of legal documentation (that at times also requires agreement from family members) to donate their body after death.
psst, not to bother you but i'm majoring in the same thing but just started and have no idea how to start with basics, etc. any advice?
@@mudbucket1354 Keep an open mind about different cultures because you still will be looking into cultural anthro as well. Even if it's some thing that angers you remember there's often a reason for it. Also, really study anatomy as much as you can and remember there's always a margin for error with both Forensic and Archeology. Just because you think a skill might belong to one people doesn't mean it does. And just because you think ancient people meant to use a certain thing a certain way doesn't guarantee it was. Again keep an open mind. And finally, really talk to all your Anthropology, history, and related teachers. Get a feel for the area you want to study within it, what the challenges for them, and how they over came them. I know it all sounds random but it will help you as you go along.
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry."
Don't we miss the good old days when people would comb battle fields to make dentures out of fallen soldier's teeth?
It Needs To Be Stigmatized
I hope Caitlin from Ask a Mortician talks about this soon cos I’m really interested in her POV as a mortician etc. Also the TikToks just roasting him done by actual osteologists and archaeologists is just *chefs kiss*
Oh my god my people are here
she is the best! totally changed the way i think about my own death
Me too!
wait who on tiktok is talking about this bc ive been looking for professionals
I actually don't know if I want to hear Caitlins take. I had to read a chapter of one of her books for a Death Culture class. Anyways we had a whole discourse class discussion about how in the reading she described a dead black woman's body as "a voodoo priestess" because her hair was unkempt during death. Anyways she's lowkey a white feminist. Like the comment was super racist. Sometimes I feel like she says things for the sake of being an edge lord.
People are mentioning traditional cultural practices that use human bones, so I feel like I should bring up two things: 1) cultures are neither set in stone, nor inherently sacred; pernicious and harmful aspects can and should be criticised and reformed, and 2) cultures all around the world have been using facsimiles of things in place of actual things for _thousands_ of years; for example, wealthy ancient Egyptians would be buried with clay models of servants in lieu of actual servants. Using animal bones or fake bones is not out of the question, in fact, there’s almost certainly a precedent for doing so.
also um, 3) the cultural practices that use human bones are, for a large part, about using the bones of people that you actually KNOW, or know the enemies of, or have a connection to. It's not about just buying random bones on the internet that were stolen from paupers' graves
@@jeancolley8908 this
@@jeancolley8908 Yeah, this whole topic is out of my wheelhouse but fuck that's my main takeaway. Shady shit aside it really seems like they care about human bones and not the *actual human* the bones came from. Shit sucks.
Also, speaking of shady shit; fucking hell the vocabulary used by them is awful. Big fan of morbid shit but geez, these ethical dudes feel super unethical :/
Yes!! Do we now agree that human sacrifice is not okay? Yes, and there are so few cultures that still do that. Is it okay to disturb the grave of a sacrifice for “science” absolutely fucking not. Just recently scientist dug up a young girl who was a sacrifice victim and were studying her and like, dont do that. Just let the poor girl rest. Yes in the culture she was part of, it was considered a high honor to be a sacrifice and was something that could be turned down, but this was still a child who had her life taken and now her body is in a lab instead of the very carefully made gravesite that was specifically hers and was well cared for for years. I wish science would quit digging up bodies just because they felt like it, its so incredibly disrespectful
@@iblame_nargles the red flag of exploitation is rigging because of there terminology. They Do not give a rats arse about who the bones used to be. It is blatant. They almost seem to be some fetishism of the bones. Its extremely paternalistic like our ancestors having human zoo's. Which were around until the 1920's.
When I first saw Jon’s bones come up in my fyp back in 2020 it instantly rang alarm bells. I commented on one of his videos asking about his sources and he was super vague, just said “bodies donated to science”. I said his collection really reminded me of body worlds and similar exhibitions. He denied it, saying “that was different, those bodies were from unclaimed Chinese prisoners”. Well turns out he has been sourcing the bones from China as well, and they were almost certainly from similar backgrounds as Body Worlds. He’s been trying to avoid this coming out for a long time now. Glad public opinion has turned against him, back in 2020 all the comments were basically “that’s so sick bro”.
...if it's bodies donated to science they'd be on labs and colleges, not a random dudes apartment!!!! Holy shit tik tok. You can ban minorities talking about issues but let the man selling human remains go?!
ohh you know damn well that when they say "taboo" and "destigmatize" they actually mean they want people to stop (rightfully) calling them out for their shady bullshit
I can’t believe he tried to make it out like the bones he sells are all for educational purposes, when his “spine wall” was purely for his personal collection. Like I don’t think he was selling any of the bones hanging around that room in his house, he just wanted to display an ungodly number of human remains.
He hung them on a wall there's no way they can be used in a medical setting anymore, they should be stored and preserved or even better, given back to their community because he sure as hell ain't handling them with any ounce of respect...
He’s gonna get haunted
@@livcaitbff that's what I was thinking too. Also to the other person that commented, I wonder how many of those spines get chipped from being hung up like that. that's so disrespectful to people that were already treated like trash in their lifetime.
Honestly that wall is so horrifying, I cannot think of anything worse than my spine ending up on Jon's spine wall. This shouldn't be legal, all those bones should be reunited with the rest of their skeletons and laid to rest peacefully or at least properly preserved, stored and handled with respect by TRAINED professionals.
That sounds like something a serial killer would make as a trophy wall, and yet he doesn't see anything wrong with doing that for personal collection use....that is absolutely disgusting and the people whose remains are in his custody deserve proper care and respect. It's disturbing that he thinks this is ok!
As someone whose studied a little bit of archeology and curatorship/museology; museums will never accept something without legit documentations and even then, human remains are a massive no-no in the museum world nowadays. If any of the family of the dead person is still alive; it can lead tons and tons of legal work plus just bad publicity for the museum. Added to that the curator (and curator team) can lose their jobs for accepting shotty artifacts.
As someone currently studying this and planning to go into museums: a LOT of museums will still accept things from private collections and from the private collections trade. There’s a concentrated effort to stamp this stuff out but it still happens. Human bones? No, as you said, there’s a whole lot of legal trouble to be had with skeletal remains, but objects are still readily being accepted that are unsourced. Then there’s also the issue of museums having massive collections of skeletons that aren’t known to the public, most of which are very unethical to have.
@@clairehorniblow6014 Yep. I won't deny that museums still accept private collections and do private trades. However, the reward vs. the trouble if caught isn't worth it for most. Added to that is the international trouble it can cause. For example, there's a collection of ancient I believe Polish or Hungarian items that aren't on display or in any museum right now because of lack of documentation and the dispute over which country owns them. Finally, I'm not surprised if some museum have private bones and they are disputed. In Canada and Britain (which are the two museum systems I'm familiar with), I won't be surprised if they have bones from Indigenous backgrounds and they have kept them because of some bullshit reason.
also why would a museum want some bones? some random old medical models that can be in bad condition have no particular scientific value
@@frogdoin oh yeah, Australian here and a LOT of European museums have indigenous Australian remains, some of which are/were mislabelled as animal remains. There has been a lot of effort in repatriation in recent years but there’s a loooong way to go to return the remains to their rightful custodians.
Another museology student here. I just wanted to say that I agree with you guys so, so much. I don't think there can be any way in which these bones can be "responsibly sourced".
As a Tumblr veteran (who's still using the app on a regular basis), I feel like an immortal being who's watched history repeat itself a thousand times before and is now tired and cynical. Weirdly enough, though, I'm also very intrigued. Like watching a natural disaster unfold before your eyes and feeling bad for the damage but also knowing you can't do much about it.
In this day and age, one could simply 3d-scan a skeleton from a medical collection and make a near perfect replica of it without causing damage to the original artifact or having to source anything. There are some amazing replicas already out there for medical reference. You don't have to dive into the murky waters of selling human remains for profit when you can get the same "educational" result from cultivating a wide collection of replicas.
And there are ethical ways of owning bones: There are quite a few cases where individuals have specified in their wills what should be done with their remains, so if grandpa wants his skull left on the mantelpiece so he can watch over his family from beyond the grave, hey cool, you do you grandpa. It's just when you start getting into someone taking grandpa's skull and selling it on ebay that you start getting into record scratch NOPE territory.
I just remembered we 3D printed bones from designs made by a uni for the uni to use. I can't remember much... But if a high schooler could do it, Jon could.
idk how any respected medical institution would buy human remains from a company named "jonsbones"
Off of tik tok. I would be willing to bet 0%
As someone with a fascination in fossils, bones, and the science of biological evolution. I have purchased and dug for fossils etc. I have also talked with places like the folks over at The Black Hills Institute and Dr. Jack Horner. I can assure you the professionals rarely ever purchase from small groups like "Jonsbones". It does happen but rarely. So yeah... Jon is full of shit.
I’m getting serious vibes that Amanda’s watched a lot of Ask a Mortician and I couldn’t love her more for it
LOL I was getting the same vibe.
Tbh I saw the wall of spines and thought he was a serial killer. There is a difference between collecting something meaningful from someone (some people collect skulls/etc for momento Mori) but a…. Spine?
I am calling it now, within the next two decades, maximum, he will be arrested for murder.
Tbh whatever government agency should have him on their watchlist like he is doing things that only murderers would do-
Predator: Shits messed up man
Maybe he’s collecting them all to make up for his lack of one
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." His business seems to justify the stigmatization, though. Human remains of unknown sources being sold to randos (there's no way it's just for "medical students" or "education". He'll sell to anyone). The "stigmatization" comes from real ethical concerns, and his business is bringing forth those concerns rather than dispelling them...
Already stating that you want to de-stigmatize the "bone trade" is beyond disgusting when human remains are included into the equation. Especially like you stated, without qualifications. These remains are extremely fragile, not just physically but culturally for generation's.
The fact they refer to the bones themselves as osteology is telling of their ignorance. It would be like going to a greenhouse and it saying “we sell ecology”.
I just started this video, but I hope she talks about his selling of indigenous bones and blocking of the words sami and indigenous in his comments.
For those who don't know, it is not legal to sell the bones of indigenous people, not in North America. Simply because most of these bones are taken from burial sites or the bodies final resting place, often placed or buried in a specific way due to tradition. These bones aren't donated. They're OLD bones taken from their resting place, no one consented to these bones being sold.
There have been so many fights about indigenous bones. The last of the beothuk people (indigenous people of newfoundland, canada), shanawdithit's skull was sent, WITHOUT the consent of any who knew her or even other tribes that lived in the area, to England. Her skull was lost in wwii blitzing. The rest of her body, the graveyard where she was buried, not even with her own people but in a church, was destroyed for traintracks. Shes gone. Forever.
The tribe im from, my dads, they've been fighting in courts for a long time over bones of our ancestors and cultural items that were taken overseas hundreds of years ago, displayed in museums there. These items should be displayed here. In canada. They should be on tribal land, where they were originally from. The remains should be here, returned so we can perform the rites and lay them to rest properly.
Sorry I went on a huge tangent but, this guy is the slimiest. Not only has he been buying and selling bones of sami people who lived long ago, but also the bones of Indias lowest caste, people who only allowed their bones to be bought so their families could survive. These bones that were sold to the Indian government to be sold to medical schools. But now this white American has them, and is selling them. And also not properly storing them. He has spines hung up, correct me if I'm wrong but... I don't think thats how you respectfully or properly store remains
Edit: she did!! Thank you!! Love it
You’re right, that’s not how bones are properly stored or handled. I’m not an expert by any means but I do remember back in anatomy lab they were very adamant we keep the real bones together with their labeled bins and put folded towels down on the tables so we wouldn’t damage or scratch them while handling them. It’s appalling enough that he has them in the first place, but to handle them so carelessly? Sickening.
Boy howdy do I love living a life full of hardship, barely having basic rights and not even having the right to choose what happens to me when I die, and then finding out when I do die that I've ended up in some weirdo's sPiNe WaLL as a decoration!
“The bone industry” really sounds like a euphemism for porn
Very... humerus
ok I'll leave
Sounds like something you'd read in a Scary Stories To Tell In The Dark.
I prefer this option and I am freaked out by porn
Bahahaha
How many of those bone that don't have paperwork are actually victims of a crime, this is gross
Realistically, probably very few (but not none). There are a lot more destitute people than there are murder victims, and we know most bones in the bone trade are from the destitute. It could surely be considered a moral crime to profit off of the remains of the poor though.
A RUclipsr called Med life crisis is a British cardiologist and he traveled to India to investigate the sale of human bones. His video was very interesting:)
Imagine you getting murdered in China and ending up in some TikTokers Garage
I thought he his account was to educate so when I asked a question about an infant's skull and he answered in a super sarcastic and rude way because he obviously didn't know the answer I realized he was not legitimate. It's not a an educational account, it's unright.
Amanda: *Telling us about the lack of verification required*
Me: "Sounds like a way for a thorough serial killer to dispose of some bodies..."
Amanda: "Now I'm not trying to give serial killers ideas but... "
So.....he's trying to emphasize how legit and respectful his business is..... and is like, "here's where we hang people's spines up on pegboard with hooks!" Gah.
If you’re so big on selling bones for educational purposes to people who may not have those resources, why not just sell high detail plastic bones?
That's what I thought they were at first. Like, either plastic or ceramic. It's what makes the most sense
Couldve also made 3D print models for free instead of, yknow, selling them for thousands
Every time they use osteology (the study of human bones) to replace the word “bones” it is like nails on a chalkboard. They are selling bones. They are not selling the study of bones.
Thank you for raising our awareness of unethically sourced bones 🙇♀️
Lol such a funny statement.
When I went on my first excavation there were human remains on the site. We were all told, pretty strictly, to respect them, to respect them as people who had names and thoughts and loved ones, and not to post any pictures of the skeletons online. That's how human bones SHOULD be treated.
right! their treatment of real people's bones is a joke to osteology and anthropology as a whole. its ridiculous for them to say they are doing this for the love of it. anthropology (at least nowadays for the most part) tries to put respect first whenever it can.
I'm from India, and just saying. Most people here, especially those of the "lower castes" do not usually donate their bodies. Because in our major religions like Hinduism, cremation is the post death procedure, so the ashes of the body are auspicious. Hence, making a lot of people and their families not comfortable with donating the whole bodies.
So idk where my man is getting these bodies.
My understanding is most of these bodies were stolen
Unfortunately, given the preference for cremation, the most logical assumption is that most (if not all) of the skeletal remains found in this company's possession are stolen. There are probably entire families out there that have no idea their dead relation has been grave-robbed for use in this incomprehensibly unethical man's "spine wall" and product list.
that whole destigmatising talk is just them saying “we want to gentrify and commodify death”
homestly, destigmatising death is a real thing that should happen (ex: Caitlin Doughty talking about the death industry and funerary practices) but selling minorities bones that likely came from grave-robbing is not it
@@Alice-burrice yeah i agree! i wasn't clear in my first comment; was referring to Jon's talk not all (:
@@mjmjmj3046 No worries! I understood, you made a good point!
him: i respect the people whos bones i collect 🥺🥺
also him: *twirling human femur*, *has a carving of his businesses name into a human bone* *lets his cat play with a human spine and laughs about it* and SO MUCH MORE ON V I D E O
I have a PhD in biological anthropology and I teach cadaver based anatomy at medical schools. I got blocked by him 3 twice for challenging his ethics. Blocking experts in the field you pretend to have knowledge in isn’t a good look.
"John sees the skeleton as the perfect machine"
MATE!
Humans are WILDLY inefficient. What the sweet hell?!
I want Caitlyn of the Ask A Mortician to discuss this! Since she knows a lot about death laws and human remains laws. PS: "SPINE WALL" IS SOME PARIS CATACOMBS BS AND HE IS A WEIRDO.
Ngl When I first heard about this situation from tumblr, I thought they were just being hyperbolic. I watched like two of his tiktoks and was like "How could selling antique bones to legitimate places of education be bad? It's better than them being privately owned and used as a decoration by some eccentric geek." I was wrong. I was horribly horribly wrong. This goes deep and Jon is beyond sketchy.
Ummm okay so there isn’t a stigma among the people who should be researching bones and learning history and anatomy…but this should not be sold to random people. These should be donated to facilities and universities…this should be banned. Honestly. It’s not education. It’s disgusting that this man and group of people are doing this.
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry."
Buddy, listen, some things are stigmatized for a reason.
Since tiktok is banned here thankfully, Amanda is probably the person who introduces me to weird tiktok things and also makes it fun.
Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking?
@@leshaariel4921 India
Are you deadass being thankful for censorship I-
Ah yes censorship, very based.
I’m curious of your opinion on the subject of this video?
I used to follow this guy for his cat, “Chonk.” Cat aside- selling bones seems like an unethical practice. I’m in nursing school and they literally have all of these things for you to study. $2,200 for bones?! For that amount you can literally go to school to study bones.
Not only just studying bones, but actually learning about what the different structure of these bones relate to and their anatomical significance. And also being able to study wet specimens and whole cadavers from body donors.
I don’t want to go to his tik tok, so could you tell me whether it looks like he overfeeds his cat on top of everything else he does?
About that whole 'sell us your bones with no further questions asked' thing... I'm 100% convinced they've been selling the bones of literal murder victims. I'm seriously speechless
it's honestly never going to stop bothering me that tumblr is the site that's forever associated with boneghazi when all of the actual drama of it all (including the offer to sell the bones??) happened on FACEBOOK.
I know that's not really related, it's just the hill I'm set to die on.
SAME. I'm still on tumblr and I know for a fact that woman was shamed off the internet for that. No one on tumblr was going "whoohoo you go girl!" If they were, they were deranged or trolling.
@@ontxtteredwxngs YEAH literally the only reason it was on tumblr at all is because someone called them out and was warning people about them! why did this become tumblr's problem lmao
The toe necklace thing WAS tumblr though
@Aura Fluff Yeah but (I can't believe I'm about to say this lmao) that was their own toe they wanted made into a necklace, so like. It's weird, but it's not like robbing black graves bad. 😂
@@jasiejam didnt the person who was making the toe necklace turn out to have a human skull of an orphan or something? I cant believe i wrote that sentence, my god
“Previously, I stated I source my bones from medical supply companies … but these companies … don’t exist anymore.”
So, you lied?
Former mortician and crematory operator here: this is disgusting. I would talk to each person I took care of after their death and tell them to get out of their body, but these bones look loud. How could you have those people in your house like that?! They must be located in Colorado (the death industry’s Wild West) and if they aren’t, I hope all of this gets them shut down.
And do your Advanced Directive, Durable Power of Attorney FOR HEALTHCARE, and/or Five Wishes. All are legally binding documents (in the state of California) and it is required for next of kin to complete what you laid out for your services. You can get AD paperwork online for free!!!
Big big agree!! im a healthcare professional, get your advance directive done! super simple and free, keep a copy in your safety deposit box and ask your physician to keep a copy in your electronic health record.
So from the perspective of a person with a BS in medical anthropology and who is a current med student my view on this is that, do to the history of the bone trade and anthropology, old bones are extremely likely to have been procured unethically. More recent bones were often donated by the person directly to a specific institution (which is also true of most cadavers donated to medical schools), but older bones were often procured via graverobbing, deceit, or by praying on highly oppressed populations (or some combination of the three). Even if Jonsbones didn't have multiple tiktoks that prove his complete disregard for the human whose bones he sells, and if he wasn't overly defensive when people call out the issues with his site+social medias, his business is still sketchy simply because he doesn't have any sort of vetting process for the bones he purchases. Also you are completely right that a bachelors in anthropology is not enough of a qualification to determine how ethically sourced a bone is, that pretty much requires PhD level experience to be able to do with any real accuracy.
"We want to de-stigmatize the bone trade and bone industry." I think it should stay at least a little stigmatized if that will stop people digging up strangers graves to make some cash. Shockingly, pulling a Burke and Hare should not be even remotely acceptable.
I have been WAITING, for someone I follow to talk about him, my best friend and I find him so goddamned intriguing because we knew him back when he was at our school. He was recently scheduled to appear at our school for an Alumni panel about being a business owner and entrepreneur, the alumni manager wasn't aware of the issues with his company and when we got the email about how he had to pull out for "issues relating to his business" I knew mentioning it to someone at the school was the right thing to do, though we don't know if it was that or him pulling out that caused that, either way he didn't make the issues clear to the school and it's his fault. The worst part is that in our curriculum we learned about the East India company and caste in India so knowing he knew the problem with it and just waved it off was so jarring.
Such a good video! Fyi wet specimens are bits preserved in alcohol mixes, think floating hands etc
Wet specimens are preserved in liquid solution, the contents of which varies depending on the time it was preserved etc. You might have seen them in a museum before lots of them have wet specimens
A wet specimen is a body part stored or preserved in fluid. Think organs or eyes stored in a jar.
okay did not know that people selling bones was a thing. I would like to go back to before i watched this video and knew this.
My brother died in a car accident in April. PLEASE DO A WILL, PEOPLE! It’s a nightmare for your loved ones if you die without one. Also tell the people you love what you want to happen when you die even though the conversations are uncomfortable. For a few days, we had no idea whether my brother wanted to be buried or cremated. In those deepest moments of grief, you just want everything to be easy for your family.
Also…his funeral cost $20k AUD. Dying is NOT cheap. 😔
This guy’s a grave robber with a thin veneer of aesthetics.
Reminds me of that ad campaign by White Castle when they got a doctor to say that it was health food.
I would really like a Caitlin Doughty-Amanda conversation about this or similar topics. I didn't know Amanda was a death enthusiast, and I think Caitlin would have some really insightful comments to make about this!
can we also talk about how he says he legally obtains the bones from cadavers donated (presumably) for medical purposes but remains must be incinerated when they’re no longer needed
Pro Tip, check out the channel Ask a Mortician. I won't link cos auto mod, but she's fun and she's also from CA and she also talks about the rituals around death and dying.
Tbh I got vibes from the beginning Amanda’s seen her fair share of Caitlyn’s videos but mentioning a living will all but sealed the deal she’s a fellow deathling
Just putting this out there, if you put links in a reply instead of an original comment, it doesn't get deleted as often
My ex collected bones and sold human bones much like jon does. You have literally just scratched the surface of how messed up it really is.
It’s so odd to me, if one wants to collect bones, why wouldn’t you collect animal bones or replicas? What makes real human bones so appealing? It feels like they must either be into it for the bragging factor or they… enjoy the idea of ogling at the bones of someone who did not want them to be sold??
Hell, even people who collect animal bones show more respect to the lives of their owners than this guy ever has. For many collectors, owning an animal’s bones is accompanied by respecting and appreciating both the animal and its life. There is no respect or appreciation involved in owning the bones of an unwilling person.
The way that I had a class in college with one of the people on the staff has me stunned… didn’t even know about this omg (I go to Parsons School of Design) I also have mutual followers/acquaintances with Jon Jon 😭
There should only be a few reasons for someone to own skeletal remains: 1) Science 2) Forensics 3) Medical Reasons (teaching, reference) 4) Scaring guests by hiding it in the bathroom closet.
would like to say, is it just me or do none of the specimens have identifying tags? because they’re kinda important? so that you know which body part belonged to which person? even if they’re unidentified?
this reminds me of that tik tok account that did crime scene cleanups and would show legitimate brain matter and horrible scenes and it was technically okay but like morally wrong
'Crime Scene Cleaning' do the same on RUclips, they're usually quite respectful, but I think they really push the line with some of the things they show
@@d_inkz At least with crime scene cleanup you know what youre getting.
And it helps to remember they are desensitised to it, far more than we are.
Once again, not morally right. Just an explanation for why they may push the line or take it too far.
"A hundred years ago I could beat you with a mop handle...that doesn't make it right"!
The process of antiquarians/looters selling their art & archaeological artifacts to an actual vendor then buying them back to establish "paperwork" for the looted artifact is actually really common in the archaeological world - this feels like the same thing tbh
"Make a will."
*me with a broken ps4 a switch and 17 cents in my name.*
"Right I'll get right on that!"
wet specimens are usually fleshy specimens kept suspended in formaldehyde or other preserving chemicals
“the hellscape that WAS tumblr” ill have you know tumblr is alive and well and still very much a hellscape (altho less so these days… maybe i just follow better people now 😂)
Shh we need to keep them thinking we're dead so it stays less hellish
She's said before that she still uses tumblr so I think Amanda knows lol
this guy is so upsetting bc i genuinely would love to have a bone from a loved one to remember them by once they pass but thats very difficult to do. then this guy COLLECTS the remains of people??? in order to SELL them??? like he’s some type of pokemon puppy mill hybrid????? barf.
it's a little ghoulish but I'd 100% sign my bones away in a will in exchange for money in the here and now if that were on the table, I'm going to donate my remains anyway... but on the other hand, selling your future bones is very capitalist dystopia
I am a professional archaeologist , and as part of receiving my degree I had to take an osteology course. All of our skeletons were donated by individuals who noted they wanted their bodies donated to science and died in the university hospital. I myself have done the paperwork to donate my body to be studied by anthropology students when I die so my body can go back into the field I love so much. To properly donate your body, there is legal paperwork you have to fill out. If remains do not come with that paperwork, than it is not ethical, not legitimate, and borderline illegal.
By the way, grave robbing is a federal crime in the United states. As an archaeologist , I constantly work hard to atone for the sins of archaeology past, especially since my area of specialty is in the middle east, an area ripe with history of exploitation and looting.
Also, as an FYI, to work as a professional archaeologist or forensic anthropologist, minimum requirements are usually a bachelor's, plus a field school, plus 2 years field experience, and almost always a masters or PhD as well. If a person claims to be a professional without these qualifications (at least in the US, Europe, and Middle East) they are not legit.
And the fact that the “osteologist” Rhiannon got her BA at Uni of Tennessee says she should DEFINITELY know better.
If you don't work at a lab... Or a museum...or are not a teacher. You do not need bones in your private home. Period. This is fucken weird
Him and the Bone Stealing Witch would get along fabulously
Edit: Aye you mentioned them
That dog is too cute, I would arrest JonsBones for it alone and I'm not even a cop
“We want to de-stigmatise the bone trade!!” buddy, your selling human bones to anybody who pays the right price. people are always gonna think it’s weird
Hello, welcome to a Goth culture hidden issue. Plenty of questionable bones acquisitions have been non medical/ university. They are REAL popular.
Really? I've been getting into the scene and haven't come across that (not to say it doesn't happen or that I don't believe you, just that I haven't personally experienced it).
@@Monocultured01 I truly apologize to break you into the scene this way. I still think you are likely to have an incredible time but....and I cannot stress this enough....eyes sharp, knife ready.
@@Antdevamp it's good to know what to keep an eye put for. Thanks.
I've been in the scene for 15 years and never, ever met a single goth who was into this.
And yes, I've seen people with decorations of bones, preserved organs etc, but they weren't real, they were plastic/silicone replicas, never the real things.
I'm very excited Amanda has a puppy
Hermes is a great puppy name. He looks like a cutie. :)
Am I the only one that discovered Jons Bones due to his cats? He showed up on my FYP with a video of Chonk.
Same here. I unfollowed them as I didn’t care for the bone content and am so glad I did.
Yeahhh listen. Medical community doesn't need your help Jon. We have LEGAL cadavers to work with. Not to mention, a plastic skull is way more useful to a student than a real one. It's less fragile,can be taken apart and is nicely marked and colored
Neither do the anthropologists, we have huge collections ourselves (in unis and museums) which are usually well documented, well preserved and treated with respect.
In elementary school we actually sang a song about John that went " Jave u seen the ghost of John? Long white bones with the skin all gone. Wouldn't it be chilly with no skin on?" I'm actually amazed that the creepy John I once sand about as a child became an entrepreneur and started up his own business. 😆
This is reminding me that there was quite literally a skeleton in the closet of the art academy I went to in highschool. It was in really bad shape but yup, it was real.
There was also a literal child skeleton just displayed in a cabinet at my old high school. People just sat around it, shooting shit and playing on their phones, not thinking about what remained of the little human being, who had to have been around three years old. Sure as shit she didn't dream of ending up behind glass and dust and used for teens giving each other spooks. She had chubby cheeks and cried when she stubbed her knee. She laughed and played and wanted to grow up some day. Her mother carried her for nine months and filled her with her hopes and dreams and love. All to become an object forgotten. I couldnt stop thinking about the child, so I made a full body painting of her skeleton behind the glass. A remediation of her objectification. It was supposed to be a mirror for the viewer. I don't know if it came across well, but I exhibited it in a gallery and held a speech to that effect, and it won a prize and I sold it as well. Unfortunately I moved high schools before I finished the painting (as you can imagine I was not a popular girl in the milleu of mid 00s high schools) so I never knew what became of the skeleton, and if she was ever laid to rest. I wish I had had the guts to actually speak up against the school, but I was 16 and only made a painting and by selling it (which I regret) I feel like I just continued the explotiation of her body. I hope the newer, more informed generation actually notices the skeleton among all the other cabinet clutter and says 'WHAT THE HECK?' Because there's NO reason for it to be in that high school.
I love the stock / "Swell Ad" music being doubled in the ad it really adds an extra chaotic element to this
"His spine wall" is something I did not expect to hear when I woke up this morning.
Strange laws are usually set because something has happened to make it necessary for the state to declare that this is not okay. Jon's Bones might be the reason why private ownership/the selling of human remains might become illegal.
I’m not convinced these people know what osteology actually is
To anyone interested in this topic, Medlife Crisis (who is a cardiologist of Indian descent from the UK) went to India to dig (pardon the pun) more information about the bone traders there.
this whole thing just sounds soooo sketchy! I didn't even know about this and you really did a great job providing all the facts - thank you for bringing attention to this!
Thank you for sourcing everything ❤❤❤ I’m doing a big college paper dissecting jonsbones’ arguments and finding TikTok’s is so hard and your video essay gave me such a good jumping off point