buying doesn't mean ownership
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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I truly think this is a case of "oooooohhhhhh okay we messed up BUT it's FINE TOTALLY FINE!" because they are definitely backtracking things now. Let's talk about The Spice DAO winning a concept art book for Alejandro JODOROWSKY's Dune adaptation that was never made for 2.66 million euros. Ler's chat.
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#spicedao #NFT #swellentertainment
The best way I heard someone explain an NFT is like buying a star to put your name on it or adopting a panda. You own neither. It's just the fun of purchasing it.
At least you get to name the star.
The difference is that you intend to sell the star/panda to someone else later at a higher price.
@@Pablo360able which is funny because it's like artificial scarcity but it's not really scarce and they're just saying yeah it's going to be worth a lot of money in the future but like why it's already worth a lot of money now but nobody likes it except for people shilling the s***lol
@@blumeiworld exactly, the only people who are interested in buying nfts are the suckers who bought into the hype
I see it more like paying a stripper to pretend to like you.
Its so baffling to me that digital artists got shit for YEARS for charging for their art and now all of a sudden, digital art is cool??? Also the fact that majority of the NFTs on OpenSea, an NFT selling site, are stolen from artists AND the site is making it harder and harder to get the stolen art taken down....
Its funny that this video came out today when Brie Larsen and a couple other actresses just announced they bought NFTs lol
upvote cause this shit is gettin crazy. why is humanity like this 😭
a bunch of the celebrities have got to be getting cuts of money, or they really are just that dumb and attention-seeking
@@kaemincha from what I’ve seen lots of celebrities are signed to companies that are currently investing in certain crypto so the companies are paying their celebrities to shill it so it boosts their investments
At this point I'm waiting for a class action or smth to be filed against OpenSea. Like what they're doing can't be legal.
@@stalebread9050 extremely interesting!!! do you happen to have a name of a company/celeb of one of these companies? would love to do some deep diving into this
The book is already available publicly. Someone uploaded a scan of the book to the internet in like the early 00's
Yeah. They did absolutely zero research. Every single assumption that group made was wrong.
Came here to say this!
NFTs: Beanie Babies for techbros, except when the value falls off a cliff they won't even have a cheaply made plush toy. They will have nothing at all.
A cheaply altered monke
I always thought of it as neopets but people don’t care about the pets, just about trading them
@@vwts at least you aren't paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Neopet
The funniest thing tho is that this is a physical book........ but since the funds are crowd sourced no one person can get the book anyway so it's Beanie Babies but even stupider
@@vwts Funny thing is neopets did nfts and that failed hardcore as well.
99.99% of the people they solicited money from will never see any of the books content. They're initial tweet contained a huge red flag on item 1, "make the content of the book public to the extent allowed by law". It's completely clear that they never bothered to actually pursue any inquiry into what WAS allowed by law, because the answer from ANY competent intellectual property lawyer would have been "none at all". They can't even distribute scans to any of the "investors", because that would be an unauthorized reproduction forbidden by copyright law. Item 2 was worded to suggest they were planning an animation based on the CONTENT of the book, which they can not legally do. Item 4, about derivative works, they can not legally do.
Also, claiming at any point that it was "unpublished" was a non starter. It was a physical COPY, meaning it WAS published.
At a minimum, I think their solicitation of funds was fraudulent, promising things they would NEVER legally deliver. They're desperately trying to backtrack on those things now to avoid being wiped out by an "investor" revolt.
Actually yet another astounding display of intelligence on the part of the Spice DAO is that the contents of the book are ALREADY publically available. It's not hard to find pdfs of every page in that book! For free! Well before they purchased this hardcover copy! So everyone financially involved in this will at least have the opportunity to see what's inside that book assuming they can figure out how Google works.
@@jones4106 And now that its become public knowledge, Warner or the estate of Frank Herbert can DMCA to delete it.
I think the thing that needs to be asked is "did the crypto bros have any connections to the previous owner of the book"? because my bet is complicated money laundering to get money out of the corporation.
"we bought this 35K book for 2.6 million. totally sane move, completely unrelated that the book was owned by my brother in law"
@@alankelly1001 First day on the Internet, huh? Tough break, but you'll learn about filesharing soon enough.
@@khill8645 Long time on the internet actually. Know all about file sharing, know all about copyright law as well. Don't spend all my time casually stealing other people's work. But maybe you have a much more lax attitude toward that sort of activity...
'nocoiner' is hilarious. They had to invent a word for insulting people who won't buy into this BS.
If some Bitcoinboss calls me a nocoiner, I am going to hit them in the face with a sock full of pennies. How do like those coins, bish? jk
They could have at least taken 2 extra seconds to think of something with more creativity. They could've hit us good with something that rolled off the tongue much easier like 'noncons' or 'nfters' /niff-ters/ (nft+haters).... Oh wait, didn't this all start because of a lack of original creativity, nvm 😅
No-mag, the non-magique
@@katiegogerty9365 what is magique?
@@russelllukenbill lol, it's the really dumb naming conventions for french non-magical people in Fantastic Beasts 2 by JK Rowling. It just seemed appropriately as dumb as "nocoiner"
As both a fan of Dune and someone whose living is built on intellectual property law, this entire thing in a nutshell is why I (and many others) have problems with the wider NFT phenomenon. When I buy a book or a piece of art, even if it's digital, I have something of measurable worth. And that purchase comes with the understanding that I won't violate copyright. You can argue about how much a physical or digital thing should be worth, but what I as a buyer am receiving is clear.
NFTs are as close to owning less than nothing as possible. If buying into a blockchain to receive an NFT of a book doesn't get me a complete copy of a book, who benefits? The ones on the upper end of the blockchain with the most money to throw around. Consumers have no protection in this environment. The NFT marketplace is completely unregulated. Buying a receipt that says I own a thing (or part of a thing) without actually conferring ownership is theft, pure and simple. And it's all the more toxic because legitimate artists, who have explicitly said NOT to make NFTs of their work, have had their art made into NFTs and sold without their permission.
NFTs aren't the future of intellectual property. They're the future of pyramid schemes and art theft, pure and simple.
by their logic, i now own the rights to the complete harry potter franchise. i own every single book!!1!
I'm sorry but your wrong. I own every book in existence.
So if I own the dictionary that means I own all books, as I own all words ever written?
Congrats on your millions of dollars that you got from owning the books!
If furries aren't jumping onto NFTs, you know its a terrible idea
Furries probably hate NFTs more than anyone else. We're very protective over our art and understand how negatively this impacts the art community.
furries already have adoptable species which r like practically nfts
furry here and i fucking despise nfts. they’re just creating things we really don’t need. like why make things that are infinitely reproducible scarce.
@@omegareal5183 you mean a closed species? Not really comparable with reputable sellers. In a closed species, you're paying for the rights to an aesthetic. It would be like if you went to Disney, told them you loved how Stich looks and they sold you the rights to make an OC that looks like an orange stich with bigger teeth, put it on merch shirts, wear costumes of it around, etc.
The veracity of an idea is based on furry approval
Everytime I hear an NFT idea, all I can think is that they're a less environmentally friendly version of something that already exists.
Or something that doesn't exist for a good reason, like 'owning' a color
I own a signed first edition of Gibson's Neuromancer. I'm pretty sure this means I own the idea of Neuromancer itself. That's how it works, right?
Yeah, start pitching an adaptation, I'm sure nothing will go wrong :)
woah i am jealous
I'm pretty sure it means you own William Gibson in his entirety, since his DNA is included from where he touched the book.
Yup, you own it now, that's how it works. 😂😂😂😂
Yes he obviously signed it away to you
Oh man you left out the best part: the contents of that book have been public on the internet for literal years before they bought it!
I'm so glad that all my fave youtubers are talking about this- NFTs + Crypto are incredibly dumb in way more ways than one (environmental concerns are just the tip of the iceberg) and seeing some sanity from my fave commentators is extremely refreshing.
19:22
She does own Crypto, though...
@@TomBombadil515 Owning some crypto is different than making it your whole personality and acting like its going to revolutionize finance
@@YvonneHansonPhotography Fair enough. At least she seems to understand the pros and cons of both NFT's and Crypto before jumping on the bandwagon making unnecessary, risky investments, and pushing their peers/influencers to do the same. Being informed is very important, and she appears to be.
@@TomBombadil515 totally agree!
It’s like me buying a twilight fanfic and thinking I own twilight
“Our DAO has nothing to do with Dune.” Their DAO is named after the most important resource in Dune.
Also making something even inspired by Jodorowsky’s Dune is still difficult because Jodorowsky himself made a series based on his unmade movie. Basically enough of his concepts deviated from Dune enough that he could throw out all the elements from the novel and made his own original series called the Metabarons. So basically every inch of the book is copyrighted in some way.
Thank you for not making an NFT, I would have stopped supporting this channel
I need a shirt or mug that says "I'm a filthy No Coiner"
the concept makes me feel like an outlaw in firefly
“No-coiner” is giving “no-maj”. Like, you couldn’t come up with a better word? lmao
I'm a coiner, just not a crypto-coiner. My coin is accepted as legal tender in more places too.
I love how they are called spice. which is a direct reference to dune, which means they could probably be sued for their whole thing.
I cannot imagine the word "Spice" is copyrightable, but then again Bethesda won a case over the word "Scrolls" so what the fuck do I know.
@@Taurusus they what. I'm gonna go google that right now
There is a really good documentary called Jodorowsky's Dune that is about that concept book, where Jodorowsky explains what happened to his film. Its really interesting, highly reccomend. He was going to have Dalí, Geiger, Orson Wlles, and Jagger to be involved, actually a huge bummer this movie wasnt made because it looked like it was going to be epic.
That sounds fucking amazing. Sucks that it was never made
Yes! The documentary is awesome!
It was one of those projects that, on a realistic level, was probably never going to be made. But man, the sheer audacity of it all! They were going to have Mick Jagger play Feyd Rautha! "Floats like a butterfly and smokes a long joint!" Just imagine it!
Yes, it's quite an entertaining documentary. You might read about how ambitious and insane the effort was and wonder how he convinced anyone, but seeing him speak about it - even translated you understand how good he was at pitching his ideas and maintaining enthusiasm.
These NFTbros and Crypto bros are trying REALLY hard to keep telling us this whole thing is not a giant scam. They sound like MLM huns
At least MLM huns sometimes have free samples.
Crypto do has a value though. I constantly use btc to buy drugs ;)
@@skitidetdu6672 the only valid way to use crypto tbh
Honestly I saw the title and i thought it would be about streaming services? Like how you pay Spotify but the library isn't permanent or whatever, and how we don't own physical copies of stuff now and they can go anyway any time. But this is also very very good
The real winner was the owner of that book at auction. Laughing to the bank!
they... they bought fanfiction, dear lord
To me they seemed to go into this with the assumption getting this book of a movie’s storyboards and concept art gave the the rights to dune and they are doing a bad job a backtracking after having consulted with a lawyer about it with the lawyer correcting them saying this didn’t give them the rights to dune and all they did was buy a book of storyboards and concept art for an unmade movie at a ridiculous price cause the book was only valued at $28,628.697-34,349.903 US Dollars even though they actually stated that they were going to make other work based off the ideas in the book and make the book public but that must’ve been before they actually consulted cause now they are acting like they never made that statement
If you wanna talk about NFTs, definitely check out Dan Olson's video "Line Goes Up - The Problem With NFTs". It's 2 hours long, but filled with information about how, exactly, NFTs are so destructive, beyond just their environmental impact.
+
Was scrolling the comments for this exact thing 👍🏼
Jodorowsky adapted his concept for Dune into The Incan (a legendary comic book) and is now being adapted by Taika Waititi
Pretty sure the book burning comment was prompted by a statement they made earlier saying they were planning on burning the physical book then minting NFTs from scans of the pages
They spent a lot of money on something that is essentially a Zine that has fanart and fanfic of Dune in it.
I remember a significant discourse around fanfic, ips, and copyright a few years back that included art. I am now questioning if it even happened or if it was just discussed by those in the arts.
It happened, but now there's a whole fresh batch of grifters and griftees
If something already happened, it never did.
In before the crazy lady who thinks she invented Omegaverse lit sues a moody wolfboys nft
@@rivetsquid8887 ummm excuse me, she invented the concept of HETERO moody wolfboys
I completely agree with this take, however what makes something fungible is if it can be divided and those pieces can be recombined to resemble the original. So a dollar is fungible because you could break it into 100 pennies and 100 pennies can be spent as one dollar. A piece of art isn't fungible because if you tore it in two it wouldn't be reconstructed to be sold as the original
I love how DAOs are just corporations with extra steps. The nft is the stock certificate and they get votes by the proportion.
PLEASE DONT make an NFT. The amount of electricity used by crypto vs youtube is vastly different
Great vid though, damn that's silly. I hope they do upload the art! It would be interesting to see
My guess is that it's either a case where the person who submitted the book to Christie's convinced Spice DAO members ownership means intellectual property and made the competing bids themselves, or a case of old school tax dodging/money laundering that got much more press than expected.
But could just be strange people who got wealthy in crypto when the thousand dollars they put in bitcoin to buy drugs off Silkroad turned into 50 million dollars, spice is a drug in Dune and they named their whole thing after it.
Thank you for not launching your own NFT or Crypto coin. I've seen a lot of influencers launch such things to scam and ripoff their fans.
"I've seen what's coming and it's going to be fcking legendary"
Fantastic word choice by them considering Legendary Pictures produced the 2021 Dune movie and actually, y'know, own the rights..
Gonna buy fanart at an obscene price and make my own anime with it
NFT = Not Freaking Tangible. When you said their location was the "Metaverse", I let out a hardy singular gutteral "HA!"
Crypto is MLM for tech bros. No more, no less.
All that’s missing are essential oil coins or NFTs.
still don't really understand how nfts are functionally different from paper reciepts from mcdonalds except that one could at least be used for toilet paper in a moment of extreme desperation
They're more like the ticket you get a 5 guys when you place your order, the thing that allows you to say "Yeah, that one's mine" when your order comes round. Doesn't do much good outside of a very specific situation and has about the same resale value to boot.
Yes I'm a no-coiner, as in I don't carry change with me when I buy things with actual money.
Fungible doesn’t necessarily mean physical object, it means interchangeable or can be replaced by
identical component parts."
Sorry, had to finish for you, looks like you hit send before finishing typing. But yep, a book is definitely a non-fungible object.
You didn't discuss that they DID want to burn it and sell an NFT of it burning.
My favorite part of this is that they think they own the copyright to Frank Herbert's novel Dune, when they bought an NFT of Jodorowsky's unmade Dune film. I also just finished a 56 page legal analysis of Dune/copyright issues/estate planning implications, and I really, really wish this news had come out six months sooner so I could go through all the legal issues with this stuff.
If they had crowd funded to buy the book so it could be displayed in a relevant museum, that would have made sense.
Who had the book before? Who got to keep that $2million? It's either someone involved in the Spice DAO that pumped the value of the book skyhigh for their own benefit OR just a very lucky collector that got a windfall.
imagine spending that much money and NOT EVEN RESEARCHING ABOUT THE LAW RELATED TO THE PURCHASES
This gives me the same vibes as tumblr trying to do...anything. Except this time its worse cause its fully grown adults who should know how copyright works.
I watched a 2 hour video on how NFTs are a scam yesterday so I can't wait to hear Amanda rip NFTs apart the way only Swell can.
“Inspired by” is totally fine - but it depends on how much the inspiration bleeds into the new work. Like everything with copyright it’s very murky.
I was hoping you'd make a video about this 😂 this story has been living in my mind rent-free, my wife has been hearing a lot of rants from me
I just can't believe that not only could people be this stupid, but that they also managed to get other people to give them millions of dollars. It's mind boggling
I hope for the NFT full video you really go into the multiple issues NFTs have, not just the enviromental impact of them. And if you mention companies who do NFT projects, you don't make it out that the whole company was in on that, please. + Folding Idea's video on NFTs is an absolute must-watch
Honestly, Folding Idea’s video is the end-all-be-all for nft videos. I feel like no other creator can do as good of a job examining what they are, how they work, and the problems associated
This, on the day Brie Larson posted in suppoort of them, devastating sapphic marvel fans everywhere. It sucks. NFTs suck.
also be sure not to work with meundies bc they're doing nft stuff now =C
4:00 By default you dont own anything with a nft. It needs to be negotiated on a sale by sale basis, which very few nft buyers know or do. So in some cases (rare though) you DO own the copyright as well, but to be valid/enforceable it needs to be put into a sales contract for the nft.
I bought a copy of Twilight once so now I will use my power as owner of Twilight to create an animated series 😂
You giggling over the cost just made me flashback to hbomberguy hysterically whispering "15 000 dollars" in one of his videos 🤣
since the funds for purchasing the book were raised by fans, they should just take the legal bullet and upload a pdf to their discord server.
I need to start a store with shirts saying "nocoiner". I swear they would sell well.
If you dive deeper, the book is actually going to cost more than the $3.04 million. They are also paying for:
$620,000 - auction fee
$176,600 - VAT Fee
$750,000 - estimated Capital Gains Tax (for converting crytpo to buy the book)
$2700 - shipping (!)
$20,000 - shipping insurance (!!)
$30,000/year - storage fees including insurance (!!!)
TBD - customs fee (maybe around $20,000 based on my calculations)
So it's probably more like $4.36 million for the purchase and fees and $30,000 a year for storage, if my calculations are correct. For a book.
the red/blk dress and the shoulder cut-out sweater are super cute 😊
The other day my cousin told me stealing art to sell it as NFT wasn't that bad since it wasn't a crime, and since it wasn't a crime we all should do it. I tried to tell him just because it wasn't a crime (yet) it didn't mean it was okay… but you can't make sense with people who likes nfts.
No coiners 😭😂 When you said “NFT slur” I died
From the name of the cryptocurrency, I’m getting the impression that the DAO is comprised by many avid Dune fans who would love to bring Jodorowsky’s work to life. It’s unfortunate that they didn’t get good legal advice before embarking in this enterprise. It would have saved them a lot of money.
Oh well! Maybe they’re amazingly honest people and will pass Jodorowsky’s concept book around until all members have seen it and enjoyed it, and afterwards they will display it as a work of art and charge people to see it. Lol.
The book has actually been publically available online for free for years and years already so even if they are amazingly honest people, they're a bit late to the party haha.
Sorry if someone else already mentioned but Dan Olson's (Folding Ideas) video on it is the go to to understand why NFTs are disgusting.
The person that said "a real dinner or a receipt for a picture of someone else's dinner?" Knows what's up.
Because that's basically how NFTs work.
You're not buying the item, or any I.P. right related to the item.
You're buying a "token" (which in reality is just a string of numbers in a database) that "represents" the item. A lot of people liken it to "certificate of authenticity", but it's really not even that.
It's essentially just a receipt.
A receipt that says you purchased a "token" that "represents" the item in question. It's a receipt that says you paid for an item. That's it.
It's like the guy who sold the Brooklyn bridge 6 times, despite never actually owning said bridge.
The people he "sold" it to paid for the Brooklyn bridge. Or at least that's what they thought. In reality, they paid for a piece of paper that basically says "I own the Brooklyn bridge", so they when it came time to enforce that ownership, they were shocked to find out that they, in fact, did not own the bridge.
because the guy who "sold" it to them never owned it, and therefore couldn't transfer said ownership.
But they had a receipt saying they owned the bridge! So they owned the bridge, God damn it!
That's basically what NFTs are.
A dude selling you a receipt saying you own something that you don't actually own.
Sadly, this is something I have seen happen MANY times (but this is an extreme case). A huge part of the public thinks that ownership = rights and its maddening.
I am actually a Dune fan! I have a few different copies of Dune. I also have a lot of special editions and merch to several other different books and series' ...(Nerdy Ink Dust Jackets, Fairyloot, Owlcrate, hand-made items from Etsy...) I am an avid reader of MG, YA, NA, and Adult. my top genres are Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and Horror. I would love to have been able to get my hands on that book! I bet a lot of readers who love Dune, along with all the books after would love to be able to check it out!
Omg that would be a great hook "it's to early in the episode to say F*** so make sure you make it to the half way point where I'll use it like a sailor"
Great video Amanda. Once again showing your range in all types of things.
i really suspect that the owner of the book had someone they knew bid against the dao, being aware that they were intent on buying it.
Old saying: "A fool and his money are easily parted." It's as true today as it was centuries ago.
I'm not a fan of Dune but I absolutely stand for Jodorowsky! His films are insane yet intriguing because he incorporates kabbalah, alchemy, and other esoterica. I just ordered his Marseille tarot deck.
I think another video I saw on the crypto people sums up the people very well but ill try and be a little less barbed with my wording. He described them as middle class with enough money to throw at projects but also concerned enough to be worried about their financial future. They are also extremely ignorant of what it takes to make a successful project and are naïve to things like business law, copyright and so on and are more easily manipulated by the people running the show. Essentially I think the same people who buy into MLMs are the target audience. Not dumb but naïve, isolated due to the pandemic along with how we live in general and depending on the person money hungry to levels that I would say are not healthy.
That pretty little thing dress is real cute and the red jacket is giving pll red coat vibes
If you're interested in the book, it's available for free online.
NFTs are beanie babies where you don't even get a plushy to touch.
Just want to say thank you for the subtitles. Watching videos is a lot easier with them and a lot of the time they're terrible.
That red jacket with the hood/dress combo makes you the companion to The Doctor in Doctor Who.
The fact that she’s talking about Jodorowsky’s Dune at all is actually really hot…
There is a documentary called "Jodorowsky's Dune" that shows the failed attempt by Jodorowsky to make a Dune movie. It's a supper interesting documentary about the movie industry and how Jodorowsky is responsible for creating a network between artists, directors and producers that ended up making the most influential science fiction movies of our time.
i clicked on this video thinking it was about right to repair, not about owning fucking DUNE
I cannot stop laughing about this. Bless you, Amanda.
Months later, this is still so funny! 😂 This is like me buying my friend's shitty Twilight fan art and thinking that I now own the rights to Twilight. "But it's unpublished!"
(I also now realize what a fcking stereotypical Younger Millennial I am. I literally can't think of any book fan base other than Twilight and Harry Potter.)
If you're investigating something related to crypto or nfts and its starting to sound like a scam. That's a good sign you're understanding it correctly.
I'm SO glad you decided not to the the NFT thing. Because I remember you mentioning it once before in a livestream or something, and I was like "well, shit, if she does this I'm going to have to unsubscribe" because that's the policy in the online art community now days: you unfollow and block anyone that goes into NFTs. You don't give them platforms. So I'm just SO glad you didn't go through with it.
This is VERY similar to music copyright.
Yes, you can own a physical copy of a CD, but you are NOT free to do with the audio contained within it as you wish.
Same goes with art prints, electronic product design (Samsung), even food recipes (like Taco Bell's Meximelt which they discontinued).
A book is a NON FUNGIBLE OBJECT.
A FUNGIBLE object is made of smaller equivalent, identical, parts; eg a dollar is made of cents, a 100 cents make a dollar, no matter which particular cent you use.
Even if you were to break up the book into a 100 pieces, they wouldn't be identical or substitutable.
NFTs were originally designed to trade non fungible objects on the BC. You don't want to sell a house, then find out that 10% of it got traded in another transaction and is now owned by a person on the other side of the planet. What NFTs turned into is whole other story, but, in essence an NFT is just a token that can't be broken up into smaller equivalent parts.
im really glad you decided not to go through with your nft plans even if it was an educational thing or a joke because anyone who gets into nfts when they are not environmentally horrible ways to have fun with art is just immediately an out of touch loser to me immediately, and this video is supporting my conclusion lmaooooo
i highly recommend watching Folding Idea's video on NFT's
put timestamps for the ads. i heard the same thing, 200000 times already and i don't have access to it economically, emotionally or where i live, nor that i care in the first place
The level of 'derp' on this is astounding.
Those is so funny how confused people are about what they actually own 😂😂
I didn't realize people thought they actually own the rights to the thing!
I love this channel so much.
My GOSH I am infuriated
75% into the video later
BRUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THIS IS TRAGIC
90%
I really do hope they watch and see amanda's take on this. Especially because of the way she delivers things, I think this video mighy actually put at least some helpful insight no matter what situation they are actually in r n 😂
I just assumed they were playing dumb to get away with money laundering
NFTs make me uncomfortable. Most people saying they are cool or fun own or make NFTs. It seems like bullshit.
1:30 Amanda was A all along, we shoulda known
I'm so confused, but even I know you can't just reprint a book, or illustrations from a book, any book, unless the licensing has expired. (like Winnie the Pooh is open season now). I mean, what can they do make greeting cards? Nope not even that.