I normally resist the urge to comment on these things. But I grow increasingly weary of declaring ships ‘overrated’ or trying to downplay their achievements. I try to say this any time I cover a ship. A ship does not need to be famous nor have grand achievements to be worth knowing. A ship does not need to have the achievements she had downplayed. History is interesting even without that.
I believe Ryan is the narrator here maybe I am wrong but this is where I have to say none of this fine machinery is overrated or stated and well back in those days ya had to have brass balls just to step on one of them underrated cast iron bathtubs. I don't think America will ever see another era of guts and glory like those days. Here where I live in Pennsylvania there are literally thousands of WWI and WWII men and women buried clear across the state from the Pocono mountains here to the coal regions to the Amish farm lands where I grew up and beyond. That goes for the Civil War as well we have relatives buried on our farms that served all those wars. At times I find myself at prayer thinking and wondering what they were like as a person as well as what they endured in battle. Those men & women of those wars achieved a unity & greatness that has not been seen since. One can say the same thing about the machinery.
Right on, Skynea. The worst trolls are the ones who keep whining about USS Texas BB-35 and are actually angry that more men on her weren't killed (she lost 1 KIA, thankfully not more than that) and angry that she wasn't hit by a kamikaze or sunk at Pearl Harbor like CA and WV (and resurrected from the dead like them both) or wasn't engaged in a battleship versus battleship battle like Massachusetts and Washington. Those trolls seem to be angry that Texas despite all the drama behind the poor state of her hull and torpedo blisters because she is a battleship built in the early 1910s Texas is still able to survive and even recently receive $100M in a Texas taxdollars warchest to drydock her and repair her for many years. She had $40M of internal repairs in the 2010s and so far $60M more for repairs in the 2020s including drydock and now pierside repairs (will be 2 more years until she is ready to go again as a museum ship).
Yamato scored three first salvo hits with her 18.1-inch guns on the destroyer USS Johnston at 20,300 yards, followed by three first salvo hits with her 6.1-inch guns.
@@metaknight115 WeeVee scored on a pitch black night, on an opening salvo. That was something that no other navy could duplicate during the WW2. RN got close on Cape Matapan, but that was point blank stuff, thus not as impressive a feat. Japanese, Germans and Italians had big problems hitting anything in dark battle conditions: Washington vs. Kirishima when a battleship could creep into proximity of a whole fleet without getting noticed, Duke of York vs. Scharnhorst where latter could not sustain effective fire with primitive seetakt which was hit later on in the action, Hipper and Scheer not managing to wipe out very inferior RN light cruisers and destroyers, Italian cruisers cought unaware with Cunningham`s fleet… Axis paid no attention to night capabilities and paid the price over and over again.
@@metaknight115 Yamato was taken out of the fight at the very beginning,when she was forced to turn away in order to dodge torpedo's that had been fired by the Johnston.From what I have read,she never really fired a shot with her big guns.I believe it was Nagato and at least one of the cruisers that hit the Johnston.
@@dochlldyno Johnston was hit by 3 18 in shells you can see this on her wreck. only one ship there had 18 in guns. Plus it has always been commonly known that Yamato got the kill.
@@robertstone9988 What? I think youre mistake. To begin with, I'm pretty certain that rather or not Johnston was hit by 6in or 18in shells from the Yamato has never been confirmed, and cannot be confirmed. Either way Johnston wasn't sunk by Yamato. She was sunk by a flotilla of escorting destroyers she intercepted whilst they were attempting a torpedo run. The fact that she survived long enough to make that interception and the fact a single 18inch salvo from Yamato was enough to kill Gambier Bay, a ship several times larger then Johnston, further illustrates my point.
West Virginia, California, and Tennesse were all rebuilt to the same design, resembling the South Dakota class in terms of superstructure and new 5 inch dual purpose gun turrets. All three were present in the battle line at Surigao Straight in October 1944 and with their newer fire control systems they dished out most of the large calibre rounds to the oncoming Japanese fleet. All three had the torpedo blisters which increased the beam to the point where they were unable to transit the Panama Canal.
There is a obscure movie where the Tennessee was fighting along side some destroyers and Escort carriers with the California and they have a segment where it shows the Tennessee put a shell at nearly point blank range right thru one side of a Japanese battle ships bridge and out the other side. I wanna say Gregory Peck & maybe Henry Fonda too is in that movie too but I have not seen that movie since I was a kid in the 70s. I want to say the battle may have been part of the battle of Lyte gulf? One of the memories that comes back with that movie is that I was alone in our den when this really wicked thunder storm came along while I was watching the movie and just as it was ending all the lights went out it got so hot and humid in the house without the AC my parents came home bitching at me because I opened every door and window in the house. They quickly opened everything back up too. I woke up to trees down all over the place and the power still off...
I’m very happy to see this video. My uncle served on WV. I am surprised he was present at the signing on September 2 in Tokyo. One thing is missing: there were devastating typhoons in 1945 and 1946 which she rode through. That was missing from your commentary.
Excellent and thank you. Very pleased to catch up with this Pearl Harbor History, and the BB West Virginia. Remarkable history.... that fabulous Black American was awarded the Medal of Honor only recently I believe? remarkable young man, remarkable crew, remarkable captain.
As a West Virginian our state Is extremely proud to have had this ship named after us. We don't have a pro sports team, most Americans don't even know we are a separate state. A state that broke away from the crown, then broke away from the union, then broke away from its own self.
My Dad served as a Gunner's Mate on the West Virginia and was aboard her when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Soon after the attack began, his battle station post filled with smoke and he passed out. When he woke up, he was laying on the ground among the dead bodies on Ford Island and was covered with a sheet. He sat up and scared the crap out of a nearby corpsman. Since the West Virginia was out of commission, my Dad joined a buddy of his on the USS Salt Lake City. When they found he had stowed aboard, they transferred his billet over, and he spent the rest of the war aboard that ship.
Not only did WV avenge herself, she became one of the few battleships to do the job of a battleship in WWII in the process, AND the most accurately-shooting battleship of all time.
She only scored three hits on Yamashiro, scoring a hit each on her 1st, 2nd, and 6th salvo. West Virginia's role is very overrated. She did not singlehandedly sink Yamashiro as often portrayed in popular media, even in this video, claiming West Virginia crippled Yamashiro and not with the help of others. California and Tennesse were each doing just as much, if not more than West Virginia, and the battleship bombardment was not as fatal as often claimed. 14-inch and 16-inch shells certainly shot her up, but she was still capable of 15 knots afterwards and successfully escaping to Japan intact before destroyer torpedoes finished her. I don't think there's a definitive answer to which battleship was the most accurate, but there are a few good contestants. Washington proved to be very accurate. At 18,000 yards, she scored a fatal hit on the destroyer Ayanami, before closing to point blank range of the battlecruiser Kirishima, scoring thirty seven hits (twenty 16-inch and seventeen 5-inch). At 11,900 yards, Duke of York scored ten hits with her main guns on the battleship Scharnhorst, and after Scharnhorst was crippled by destroyer torpedoes, she scored many more from 10,000 yards to finish her off. Yamato was remarkably accurate off Samar. At 34,500 yards, she severely damaged the escort carrier White Plains with a shell that landed mere feet underneath her keel, and according to some sources scraped off her hull before exploding, before scoring six hits on the destroyer Johnston within two salvos (three hits per salvo, three 18.1-inch and three 6.1-inch), before destroying the escort carrier Gambier Bay and helping to sink the destroyer Hoel with excellent long range gunnery. Scharnhorst and Gniesenau were amazing shots against Glorious. Scharnhorst scored...I believe the 2nd longest ranged naval hit at 26,600 yards, before the pair annihilated Glorious and the destroyers Acasta and Ardent with long range shooting.
@@metaknight115 Yes, West Virginia’s role at Surigao is indeed significantly overstated in terms of how much damage she actually did to Yamashiro, but a first-salvo straddle and hit at 22,000 yards at night is actually pretty good accuracy: Warspite and Scharnhorst hit their targets at much longer ranges because of luck rather than skill or technical details, Washington was shooting at point-blank range where just about any battleship could expect to score hits easily, and Yamato’s performance at Samar happened during daylight where she could actually see where to shoot.
I have read in book on the U.S.S. West Virginia that the torpedo blisters had been constructed and were at Bremerton, WA but that no money was available to install them.
I’ve always been fascinated by the Wee Vee. The punishment she endured at Pearl should have destroyed her, but they rebuilt her better than ever, as well as Tennessee and California, and she returned the punishment to the enemy who tried to destroy her. She’s a testament to the power of perseverance and exactly why manufacturing was so important to an Allied victory. Damned shame we forgot that lesson. In any case, the redesign and rebuild of those three ships resulted in some of the most effective fighting machines to ever serve, and frankly the meanest looking battleships ever built. Wee Vee’s big 16” guns were no joke, for sure.
She was destroyed at Pearl Harbor though. It was the biggest cope to claim that that was the same Wee Vee and CA as from 1941 and before. Those two BBs were completely rebuilt just like new battleships from the SD class. Same like the two DESTROYED destroyers USS Cassin and USS Downes. Waste of shipyard space to "rebuild" WV, CA, Cassin, and Downes, really. They were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor despite the copium from the USN and "historians" ever since. Cassin and Downes were even decommissioned and struck off of the Navy List until FDR wanted them "put back on" just so they could lie and claim that they were "damaged". Cassin and Downes' hulls and everything that defines a ship was destroyed except their engines and internal equipment!
@@nogoodnameleft Their superstructures we’re indeed completely rebuilt, but their basic hulls and engines were unchanged, save for the repair of damage and the addition of the enormous torpedo blisters. They were not given new hulls and certainly not machinery. Otherwise they would not have remained so much slower than the fast battleships. There is literally no comparison to the reconstruction of Cassin and Downes and the modification and reconstruction of the Standard battleships of Pearl Harbor.
@@corneliuscrewe8165 So Cassin/Downes were pretty much brand new ships and I am correct on that front, but WV/CA were legitimately able to be called "repair jobs"?
@@corneliuscrewe8165 I think my original argument still stands. WeeVee and California were destroyed at Pearl Harbor and you and the USN exhibit sad copium by LARPing like those were the "same ships". Pathetic really.
Great video, Skynea! As you continue looking at the class, I’d love to hear your take on the relative merits of the 12x14-inch battery of the earlier standards vs the 8x16-inch battery of the Colorados. Also, the US triple and three-gun 14-inch turrets seem compact. Being familiar with the war-built 16-inch turrets represented in the museum fleet, I am hard pressed to understand how the crew needed to operate the earlier turrets could fit into the space and function without getting in the way of each other.
The shells fired by the 16in guns (of the Colorado class) are nearly twice the weight of the high capacity 14in shell and over 600 pounds heavier than the 14in AP shell. The shells used by the fast BBs were 1,200 pounds heavier than the 14in AP. I assume this means the crew necessary to move these shells increased with the 16in guns. As built, the standard types with 14in guns had a maximum elevation of 15 degrees and were later upgraded to 30 degrees. The Colorados had 30 degrees maximum elevation. The fast BBs were built with 45 degrees maximum elevation. Elevating the guns further takes up more space that would have been open on the 14in BBs. It seems as though the 14in turrets were able to be so compact because their machinery took up less space and the necessary crew was smaller.
As the only survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack that was present in Tokyo Bay for the surrender of the Japanese I think that it would have only be right for the surrender to have been signed on the West Virgina.
My favorite battleship. The rebuild would see her have a new length-to-beam ratio which on top of the Mk 38 gun fire-control system, Mk8 radar and RPC for the main gun mounts made her arguably the most accurate floating 16"-gun platform of the time. Her performance at Surigao can't be compared, since the opening salvo was one of the longest fully radar-guided salvos at night, further complicated by the position 7th Fleet battle line took "crossing the T" which had minimal benefits if not crippling drawbacks. It is true, however, that the battle line's contribution in the sinking of Yamashiro is often exaggerated. It was clear after running handful of simulations that crossing the T of the hapless battleship helped her be a smaller target and reduce the hit chance, as well as hiding much of the more vulnerable vertical armor she possessed. All of these factors limited the damage to her topside and reduced the possibilities of outright sinking by gunfire (outside of very lucky shell scenarios) to minimal. A perfect world exist where the subsequent planned parallel chase of Yamashiro by the battle line succeed in pummeling her broadside more effectively and sink her. Unfortunately in our world, this effort was from the beginning thwarted (ironically) by a mishap aboard California that would see her sail out of formation and in-front of the battle line, bringing the threat of friendly fire back on the table and ending their action to what we know it today.
Revenge is much sweeter when it involves a blank check that refloats and refits battle damaged hardware just to make sure those same ships sunk in a surprise attack that started the war are present at capitulation after returning to theater and kicking ass for almost a year. Considering the minimal amount of dearly held drydocking space available I can’t help but wonder if West Virginia and California’s refits were done purely out of pettiness.
At the beginning of WWII battleships were the queens of the fleet and although 20 years old the California and West Virginia were among the newest battleships in the US Navy. In 1941 only the two North Carolina class battleships were newer than the West Virginia and the second of those, the USS Washington had only been in commission for a few months earlier when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Refitting these ships made sense at the time.
The biggest copium is to claim that that WV and CA were the same ships from the ones sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor. The ones that were called "WV and CA" in 1944 were not the same BBs at all. They had to rebuild their hulls and superstructures and everything. That is not "simple repair". That is lying about what really happened and coping and trying to deny the fact that WV and CA were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor. They did the same with destroyers Cassin and Downes. They both were completely destroyed and even were decommissioned because the hulls were completely destroyed. But copium makes the big lie possible by the USN like "they were lightly damaged and repaired just as if they were pre-Pearl Harbor destroyers" which was not true.
It was lobbying at the White House by Homer Ferguson, president of Newport News Shipbuilding, that saved the U.S.S West Virginia. When the Washington Naval treaty was signed it was assumed that the West Virginia would be completed since her fitting out was further along than the Washington even though she had been launched at a later date. When Ferguson, who was on a hunting trip in North Carolina, was informed by the shipyard's representative in D.C. that the Washington would be completed instead and the West Virginia scrapped, Ferguson caught an overnight train to Washington D.C. and went to the White House early the next morning to intercede on her behalf. The story is on page 122 of Newport News Shipbuilding, the First Century published by the shipyard in 1986.
USS West Virginia after due diligent debate and the lessons learned after raising USS California and Nevada it was decided to rebuild her as a long war against Japan was anticipated in Feb 1942 plus the salvage experience gained at Pearl Harbour was a huge advantage upto today for the US Navy.
So WV and CA really were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor just like Cassin and Downes. The neo-WV and neo-CA were brand new battleships just called WV and CA for the ultimate copium and a way for the USN to be able to deny that they "weren't really sunk or destroyed at Pearl Harbor".
I would like you do a "what if" video. Let's just say the Battleships left 3 hours before the attack and none were sunk. Can you tell what the first real battle would have looked like with the minds set of the Navy brass before the sinking? Just what would have happened if these 1920's version of the battleships had went up against the newer Japanese ships. Plus the doctrine of Yamamoto to use aircraft carriers.
Miller won the Navy Cross for his actions, and was killed on Liscomb Bay when t was sunk by a Japanese sub during the Makin campaign. I lived in the Doris M. Miller Bachelor Enlisted Quarters while training at Great Lakes NTC, which was handily located across from the EM Club. A Ford Class CVN is scheduled to be named after him in 2026. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Miller
West Virgina should had been called to action in 1950's in Korea War... Colorado were a more cost-efficient shore bombardment platform than Iowa Class battleships
One other thing. Had Kurita not retreated - his fleet might have come down towards the American Amphibious Ships - and the old Battleships brought up to engage them. .
That would not have been a good thing, especially for West Virginia. The 7th Fleet Battleships were mainly carrying ammo loadouts heavily weighted for shore bombardment/invasion support. They each had a very limited load of AP shells. Which they had all but exhausted in Surigao Strait. Especially West Virginia. Plus they had burned a lot of fuel, and skipped a planned refueling to get to Surgao Strait ahead of Nishimura. So they desperately needed fuel and ammo when Taffy 3 started screaming.
Blame the UK for the Naval Treaties...we strangely aren't supposed to get angry for that. We should be blaming them for making us so weak in the first two years of WWII in the U.S. Navy. England really was the #1 culprit who killed those Pearl Harbor and later battles sailors due to the ban on new ships for so long, not Japan.
It was a pity that with all of her major rebuild, the Navy didn't put a modern high pressure steam plant to bring her past the 21 knots of the standards.
The Ashes The Rain And I: a song from James Gang Rides Again w/ Joe Walsh. This badly outdated ship cost a fortune to refloat & repair to service for what? A single year after return to duty it found itself on the sideline for good. The resources we squandered when the U.S. Navy so badly needed big, nasty heavily armed heavy crusiers in the worst way, we resurrect an outdated battle-slug. They could not park it fast enough after the hostilities. Thanx.
She was a tough ship. She got knocked down but not knocked out. She got back up and got back in the fight. She gave the enemy what for, and then was standing by as they gave it up. If that isn't honorable, I don't know what is. I imagine the souls of the sailors that perished at Pearl Harbor were able to rest then. Thanks to those who stood up to fascism then. We need people like that now, as much as we did in the past. I hope we're up to the task.
Maybe the WV Senators/Reps were more influential than the Washington State politicians..and credit goes to the tireless work done by all at Pearl in the aftermath..incredible salvaging efforts..
You know, I am amazed that even though U.S.S. WEST VIRGINIA may have been shorter and a few tons lighter than H.M.S. HOOD, she still has a more powerful main battery than the British ship. So I don't see why that HOOD was declared not only the largest, but the most powerful battleship in the world; when the COLORADO Class would have shot her out of the frame! 🤔
The Royal Navy classed the Hood as a cruiser. Historically, classing ships by size and tonnage has always been tricky. There is a video about frigates, which says that classes of ships is a confusing thing.
Hood was declared the most powerful because she could run 32 kn, nothing in the world could stand around her at that speed, until the next generation of 30 kn battleship came online. The mightiest battleship is useless if the enemy could run circles around her, staying out of range thanks to a vastly superior speed. In order to slow and catch her, you would need an act of God, or a very, very well trained squadron of torpedo bombers, and at the time of the Hood sinking (by another ship capable of 30 knots btw) the Colorados , nice as they were, could not expect much help, yet, from any American torpedo. But you are right, in that 'most powerful' is much debatable, especially if someone has something like the Nagato class, with 16" and 26 kn.
Hood was the largest battlecruiser ever built, which is different from a battleship. Battlecruisers typically had thinner armor (to a varying degree) and a somewhat lighter main gun battery than contemporary battleships, installed on a longer hull with much higher engine power in order to attain greater speeds. The US did not have battlecruisers because of the timing of the Washington Naval Treaty, otherwise Lexington and Saratoga would have been completed as battlecruisers and not carriers.
Hood was designed as a large battle cruiser. Late in her building, after Jutland the R.N. tried to make some changes to her. Being too late to make many changes they showed the idea of a Fast Battleship. Unfortunately, she never got the rebuild or modernization she needed. Going into her last battle with Bismark her machinery was so worn out that her speed was nowhere near her maximum. Sadly she was never as strong as the British public thought she was.
@@jollyjohnthepirate3168with British resolve she sure was..Taking on Bismarck and Prince Eigon not shy of Stubborn bravery...Her sunk sealed Bismarck's fate.
I personally really like the standard type bettleships especially the colorado, tennessee and Pennsylvania class and so on more so pre pearl harbour those tripod/lattice masts with the pair of 3 storey fire control tops were so unique I don't know what the post pearl harbour designers was on, but somehow turned a swans into ugly ducklings. more notable Pennsylvania and nevada were absolutely butchered.
I normally resist the urge to comment on these things.
But I grow increasingly weary of declaring ships ‘overrated’ or trying to downplay their achievements. I try to say this any time I cover a ship.
A ship does not need to be famous nor have grand achievements to be worth knowing. A ship does not need to have the achievements she had downplayed.
History is interesting even without that.
To bad couldn’t be made into a museum
well not over saying anything, but with out these ships America would be gone,
I believe Ryan is the narrator here maybe I am wrong but this is where I have to say none of this fine machinery is overrated or stated and well back in those days ya had to have brass balls just to step on one of them underrated cast iron bathtubs. I don't think America will ever see another era of guts and glory like those days. Here where I live in Pennsylvania there are literally thousands of WWI and WWII men and women buried clear across the state from the Pocono mountains here to the coal regions to the Amish farm lands where I grew up and beyond. That goes for the Civil War as well we have relatives buried on our farms that served all those wars. At times I find myself at prayer thinking and wondering what they were like as a person as well as what they endured in battle. Those men & women of those wars achieved a unity & greatness that has not been seen since. One can say the same thing about the machinery.
Agreed 💯
Your presentation(s) of the ship(s) history are a direct hit .
Thoroughly informative and enjoyable.
Stay the course.
Steady as she goes ....
Right on, Skynea. The worst trolls are the ones who keep whining about USS Texas BB-35 and are actually angry that more men on her weren't killed (she lost 1 KIA, thankfully not more than that) and angry that she wasn't hit by a kamikaze or sunk at Pearl Harbor like CA and WV (and resurrected from the dead like them both) or wasn't engaged in a battleship versus battleship battle like Massachusetts and Washington. Those trolls seem to be angry that Texas despite all the drama behind the poor state of her hull and torpedo blisters because she is a battleship built in the early 1910s Texas is still able to survive and even recently receive $100M in a Texas taxdollars warchest to drydock her and repair her for many years. She had $40M of internal repairs in the 2010s and so far $60M more for repairs in the 2020s including drydock and now pierside repairs (will be 2 more years until she is ready to go again as a museum ship).
Proud of the USS West Virginia!
As a West Virginia resident and WVU alumni, her bell is still proudly displayed on the campus.
This ship's theme should be: "Revenge Is A Dish Best Served With 16 Inch Bullets"
High explosive or armor piercing? I suppose it would depend on who or what is receiving said revenge.
Great vid Skynea, the salvage work done at Pearl harbor was nothing short of remarkable.
Hitting with her first salvo is very impressive
Yamato scored three first salvo hits with her 18.1-inch guns on the destroyer USS Johnston at 20,300 yards, followed by three first salvo hits with her 6.1-inch guns.
@@metaknight115 WeeVee scored on a pitch black night, on an opening salvo. That was something that no other navy could duplicate during the WW2. RN got close on Cape Matapan, but that was point blank stuff, thus not as impressive a feat.
Japanese, Germans and Italians had big problems hitting anything in dark battle conditions: Washington vs. Kirishima when a battleship could creep into proximity of a whole fleet without getting noticed, Duke of York vs. Scharnhorst where latter could not sustain effective fire with primitive seetakt which was hit later on in the action, Hipper and Scheer not managing to wipe out very inferior RN light cruisers and destroyers, Italian cruisers cought unaware with Cunningham`s fleet…
Axis paid no attention to night capabilities and paid the price over and over again.
@@metaknight115 Yamato was taken out of the fight at the very beginning,when she was forced to turn away in order to dodge torpedo's that had been fired by the Johnston.From what I have read,she never really fired a shot with her big guns.I believe it was Nagato and at least one of the cruisers that hit the Johnston.
@@dochlldyno Johnston was hit by 3 18 in shells you can see this on her wreck. only one ship there had 18 in guns. Plus it has always been commonly known that Yamato got the kill.
@@robertstone9988 What? I think youre mistake. To begin with, I'm pretty certain that rather or not Johnston was hit by 6in or 18in shells from the Yamato has never been confirmed, and cannot be confirmed. Either way Johnston wasn't sunk by Yamato. She was sunk by a flotilla of escorting destroyers she intercepted whilst they were attempting a torpedo run. The fact that she survived long enough to make that interception and the fact a single 18inch salvo from Yamato was enough to kill Gambier Bay, a ship several times larger then Johnston, further illustrates my point.
West Virginia, California, and Tennesse were all rebuilt to the same design, resembling the South Dakota class in terms of superstructure and new 5 inch dual purpose gun turrets. All three were present in the battle line at Surigao Straight in October 1944 and with their newer fire control systems they dished out most of the large calibre rounds to the oncoming Japanese fleet. All three had the torpedo blisters which increased the beam to the point where they were unable to transit the Panama Canal.
There is a obscure movie where the Tennessee was fighting along side some destroyers and Escort carriers with the California and they have a segment where it shows the Tennessee put a shell at nearly point blank range right thru one side of a Japanese battle ships bridge and out the other side. I wanna say Gregory Peck & maybe Henry Fonda too is in that movie too but I have not seen that movie since I was a kid in the 70s. I want to say the battle may have been part of the battle of Lyte gulf? One of the memories that comes back with that movie is that I was alone in our den when this really wicked thunder storm came along while I was watching the movie and just as it was ending all the lights went out it got so hot and humid in the house without the AC my parents came home bitching at me because I opened every door and window in the house. They quickly opened everything back up too. I woke up to trees down all over the place and the power still off...
So pretty much the original WV and CA died at Pearl Harbor after being sunk and the ones since 1944 were brand new battleships
"Country roads, take me home
To the place I belong
West Virginia, mountain mama
Take me home, country roads"
"Wee Vee" returning to haunt the IJN like Metro Man,
"My death was greatly exaggerated"
WeeVee and Tennessee were aesthetically my favorites. Just beautiful. And I’ll give you credit for appropriately calling them “rifles”!
I’m very happy to see this video. My uncle served on WV. I am surprised he was present at the signing on September 2 in Tokyo. One thing is missing: there were devastating typhoons in 1945 and 1946 which she rode through. That was missing from your commentary.
Thanks for a for a great report on the West Virginia and her service to the country.
Excellent and thank you. Very pleased to catch up with this Pearl Harbor History, and the BB West Virginia. Remarkable history.... that fabulous Black American was awarded the Medal of Honor only recently I believe? remarkable young man, remarkable crew, remarkable captain.
Thank you for this great video -A West Virginian
Being a West Virginia resident, I couldn't resist watching this video. Great addition to my prior knowledge of this great ship.
As a West Virginian our state Is extremely proud to have had this ship named after us. We don't have a pro sports team, most Americans don't even know we are a separate state. A state that broke away from the crown, then broke away from the union, then broke away from its own self.
RAHHHH LETS GOOOOOO. WEST VIRGINIA FOREVER
Thank you, always very grateful for yours video's and narratives of naval ship's and their history, JV
My Dad served as a Gunner's Mate on the West Virginia and was aboard her when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Soon after the attack began, his battle station post filled with smoke and he passed out. When he woke up, he was laying on the ground among the dead bodies on Ford Island and was covered with a sheet. He sat up and scared the crap out of a nearby corpsman.
Since the West Virginia was out of commission, my Dad joined a buddy of his on the USS Salt Lake City. When they found he had stowed aboard, they transferred his billet over, and he spent the rest of the war aboard that ship.
Not only did WV avenge herself, she became one of the few battleships to do the job of a battleship in WWII in the process, AND the most accurately-shooting battleship of all time.
She only scored three hits on Yamashiro, scoring a hit each on her 1st, 2nd, and 6th salvo.
West Virginia's role is very overrated. She did not singlehandedly sink Yamashiro as often portrayed in popular media, even in this video, claiming West Virginia crippled Yamashiro and not with the help of others. California and Tennesse were each doing just as much, if not more than West Virginia, and the battleship bombardment was not as fatal as often claimed. 14-inch and 16-inch shells certainly shot her up, but she was still capable of 15 knots afterwards and successfully escaping to Japan intact before destroyer torpedoes finished her.
I don't think there's a definitive answer to which battleship was the most accurate, but there are a few good contestants.
Washington proved to be very accurate. At 18,000 yards, she scored a fatal hit on the destroyer Ayanami, before closing to point blank range of the battlecruiser Kirishima, scoring thirty seven hits (twenty 16-inch and seventeen 5-inch).
At 11,900 yards, Duke of York scored ten hits with her main guns on the battleship Scharnhorst, and after Scharnhorst was crippled by destroyer torpedoes, she scored many more from 10,000 yards to finish her off.
Yamato was remarkably accurate off Samar. At 34,500 yards, she severely damaged the escort carrier White Plains with a shell that landed mere feet underneath her keel, and according to some sources scraped off her hull before exploding, before scoring six hits on the destroyer Johnston within two salvos (three hits per salvo, three 18.1-inch and three 6.1-inch), before destroying the escort carrier Gambier Bay and helping to sink the destroyer Hoel with excellent long range gunnery.
Scharnhorst and Gniesenau were amazing shots against Glorious. Scharnhorst scored...I believe the 2nd longest ranged naval hit at 26,600 yards, before the pair annihilated Glorious and the destroyers Acasta and Ardent with long range shooting.
@@metaknight115
Yes, West Virginia’s role at Surigao is indeed significantly overstated in terms of how much damage she actually did to Yamashiro, but a first-salvo straddle and hit at 22,000 yards at night is actually pretty good accuracy: Warspite and Scharnhorst hit their targets at much longer ranges because of luck rather than skill or technical details, Washington was shooting at point-blank range where just about any battleship could expect to score hits easily, and Yamato’s performance at Samar happened during daylight where she could actually see where to shoot.
My Father Kenneth McLaughlin served on USS Gambier Bay
@@markmclaughlin2690 That's pretty cool.
Most accurate would go to warspite my boy
Great documentary..
I live in WV. Im proud of her and of the other ships that gave so much to win the war.
I have read in book on the U.S.S. West Virginia that the torpedo blisters had been constructed and were at Bremerton, WA but that no money was available to install them.
Proud West Virginian and alumni at WVU! God Bless USS West Virginia!
My uncle Herb Justice was a member of her crew. He was from Roane County WV.
Take a look at Washintons speed trilas, for some reason it was slower than expected. Leona
I’ve always been fascinated by the Wee Vee. The punishment she endured at Pearl should have destroyed her, but they rebuilt her better than ever, as well as Tennessee and California, and she returned the punishment to the enemy who tried to destroy her. She’s a testament to the power of perseverance and exactly why manufacturing was so important to an Allied victory. Damned shame we forgot that lesson.
In any case, the redesign and rebuild of those three ships resulted in some of the most effective fighting machines to ever serve, and frankly the meanest looking battleships ever built. Wee Vee’s big 16” guns were no joke, for sure.
She was destroyed at Pearl Harbor though. It was the biggest cope to claim that that was the same Wee Vee and CA as from 1941 and before. Those two BBs were completely rebuilt just like new battleships from the SD class. Same like the two DESTROYED destroyers USS Cassin and USS Downes. Waste of shipyard space to "rebuild" WV, CA, Cassin, and Downes, really. They were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor despite the copium from the USN and "historians" ever since. Cassin and Downes were even decommissioned and struck off of the Navy List until FDR wanted them "put back on" just so they could lie and claim that they were "damaged". Cassin and Downes' hulls and everything that defines a ship was destroyed except their engines and internal equipment!
@@nogoodnameleft Their superstructures we’re indeed completely rebuilt, but their basic hulls and engines were unchanged, save for the repair of damage and the addition of the enormous torpedo blisters. They were not given new hulls and certainly not machinery. Otherwise they would not have remained so much slower than the fast battleships.
There is literally no comparison to the reconstruction of Cassin and Downes and the modification and reconstruction of the Standard battleships of Pearl Harbor.
@@corneliuscrewe8165 So Cassin/Downes were pretty much brand new ships and I am correct on that front, but WV/CA were legitimately able to be called "repair jobs"?
@@nogoodnameleft Well, yes. Cassin and Downes were complete hull replacements, WeeVee and California were not. It's not that complicated.
@@corneliuscrewe8165 I think my original argument still stands. WeeVee and California were destroyed at Pearl Harbor and you and the USN exhibit sad copium by LARPing like those were the "same ships". Pathetic really.
Great video, Skynea! As you continue looking at the class, I’d love to hear your take on the relative merits of the 12x14-inch battery of the earlier standards vs the 8x16-inch battery of the Colorados. Also, the US triple and three-gun 14-inch turrets seem compact. Being familiar with the war-built 16-inch turrets represented in the museum fleet, I am hard pressed to understand how the crew needed to operate the earlier turrets could fit into the space and function without getting in the way of each other.
The shells fired by the 16in guns (of the Colorado class) are nearly twice the weight of the high capacity 14in shell and over 600 pounds heavier than the 14in AP shell. The shells used by the fast BBs were 1,200 pounds heavier than the 14in AP. I assume this means the crew necessary to move these shells increased with the 16in guns.
As built, the standard types with 14in guns had a maximum elevation of 15 degrees and were later upgraded to 30 degrees. The Colorados had 30 degrees maximum elevation. The fast BBs were built with 45 degrees maximum elevation. Elevating the guns further takes up more space that would have been open on the 14in BBs.
It seems as though the 14in turrets were able to be so compact because their machinery took up less space and the necessary crew was smaller.
Awesome video! Thanks! Just discovered your channel!
awesome video thank you
I bet the crew had great fun using her as as a "suvivor" of suprise attack, then she issues the smack down if IJN- thats outstanding.
As the only survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack that was present in Tokyo Bay for the surrender of the Japanese I think that it would have only be right for the surrender to have been signed on the West Virgina.
Dirty Harry Truman can't let that happen. Big Ego Harry had to have it signed on his precious USS Missouri.
2 Pearl Harbor survivors were present at the surrender in Tokyo Bay. West Virginia and the USS Detroit, CL-8.
My favorite battleship. The rebuild would see her have a new length-to-beam ratio which on top of the Mk 38 gun fire-control system, Mk8 radar and RPC for the main gun mounts made her arguably the most accurate floating 16"-gun platform of the time. Her performance at Surigao can't be compared, since the opening salvo was one of the longest fully radar-guided salvos at night, further complicated by the position 7th Fleet battle line took "crossing the T" which had minimal benefits if not crippling drawbacks.
It is true, however, that the battle line's contribution in the sinking of Yamashiro is often exaggerated. It was clear after running handful of simulations that crossing the T of the hapless battleship helped her be a smaller target and reduce the hit chance, as well as hiding much of the more vulnerable vertical armor she possessed. All of these factors limited the damage to her topside and reduced the possibilities of outright sinking by gunfire (outside of very lucky shell scenarios) to minimal.
A perfect world exist where the subsequent planned parallel chase of Yamashiro by the battle line succeed in pummeling her broadside more effectively and sink her. Unfortunately in our world, this effort was from the beginning thwarted (ironically) by a mishap aboard California that would see her sail out of formation and in-front of the battle line, bringing the threat of friendly fire back on the table and ending their action to what we know it today.
A very good presentation
I had 2 Uncles on the WeeVee. One at Pearl Harbor, and the other after her refit till the end of the war.
Revenge is much sweeter when it involves a blank check that refloats and refits battle damaged hardware just to make sure those same ships sunk in a surprise attack that started the war are present at capitulation after returning to theater and kicking ass for almost a year. Considering the minimal amount of dearly held drydocking space available I can’t help but wonder if West Virginia and California’s refits were done purely out of pettiness.
At the beginning of WWII battleships were the queens of the fleet and although 20 years old the California and West Virginia were among the newest battleships in the US Navy. In 1941 only the two North Carolina class battleships were newer than the West Virginia and the second of those, the USS Washington had only been in commission for a few months earlier when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Refitting these ships made sense at the time.
The biggest copium is to claim that that WV and CA were the same ships from the ones sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor. The ones that were called "WV and CA" in 1944 were not the same BBs at all. They had to rebuild their hulls and superstructures and everything. That is not "simple repair". That is lying about what really happened and coping and trying to deny the fact that WV and CA were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor. They did the same with destroyers Cassin and Downes. They both were completely destroyed and even were decommissioned because the hulls were completely destroyed. But copium makes the big lie possible by the USN like "they were lightly damaged and repaired just as if they were pre-Pearl Harbor destroyers" which was not true.
Doris Miller should one day receive the medal of Honor, but guess having a carrier named after him is just as good.
will you be doing a piece on the HMT Rohna, the documentary is scheduled to premier on nov 11?
It was lobbying at the White House by Homer Ferguson, president of Newport News Shipbuilding, that saved the U.S.S West Virginia. When the Washington Naval treaty was signed it was assumed that the West Virginia would be completed since her fitting out was further along than the Washington even though she had been launched at a later date. When Ferguson, who was on a hunting trip in North Carolina, was informed by the shipyard's representative in D.C. that the Washington would be completed instead and the West Virginia scrapped, Ferguson caught an overnight train to Washington D.C. and went to the White House early the next morning to intercede on her behalf. The story is on page 122 of Newport News Shipbuilding, the First Century published by the shipyard in 1986.
With the ones that were refloated or restored, how did they get all of the bodies and body parts out of them ?
USS West Virginia after due diligent debate and the lessons learned after raising USS California and Nevada it was decided to rebuild her as a long war against Japan was anticipated in Feb 1942 plus the salvage experience gained at Pearl Harbour was a huge advantage upto today for the US Navy.
So WV and CA really were sunk and destroyed at Pearl Harbor just like Cassin and Downes. The neo-WV and neo-CA were brand new battleships just called WV and CA for the ultimate copium and a way for the USN to be able to deny that they "weren't really sunk or destroyed at Pearl Harbor".
This was excellent. Thank you.
Hey, guys. Anyone know what that gizmo on the barrel of the 5x50 is? (Some kind of zeroing aid?) Thanks.
Thank you for doing my home state
I would like you do a "what if" video. Let's just say the Battleships left 3 hours before the attack and none were sunk. Can you tell what the first real battle would have looked like with the minds set of the Navy brass before the sinking? Just what would have happened if these 1920's version of the battleships had went up against the newer Japanese ships. Plus the doctrine of Yamamoto to use aircraft carriers.
Miller won the Navy Cross for his actions, and was killed on Liscomb Bay when t was sunk by a Japanese sub during the Makin campaign. I lived in the Doris M. Miller Bachelor Enlisted Quarters while training at Great Lakes NTC, which was handily located across from the EM Club. A Ford Class CVN is scheduled to be named after him in 2026.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Miller
the argument over whether modernised WeVe or modernised QE was the more successful ship will be ever raging...
West Virgina should had been called to action in 1950's in Korea War...
Colorado were a more cost-efficient shore bombardment platform than Iowa Class battleships
And as with all the capital ships at Pearl, and they survived. None were preserved for today.
One other thing.
Had Kurita not retreated - his fleet might have come down towards the American Amphibious Ships - and the old Battleships brought up to engage them.
.
That would not have been a good thing, especially for West Virginia. The 7th Fleet Battleships were mainly carrying ammo loadouts heavily weighted for shore bombardment/invasion support. They each had a very limited load of AP shells. Which they had all but exhausted in Surigao Strait. Especially West Virginia. Plus they had burned a lot of fuel, and skipped a planned refueling to get to Surgao Strait ahead of Nishimura. So they desperately needed fuel and ammo when Taffy 3 started screaming.
Excellent!
The sharpshooter of the fleet, the lovely WeeVee
The Washington Treaty did us no favors. We built ships on a displacement that was too small to be an effective design.
Blame the UK for the Naval Treaties...we strangely aren't supposed to get angry for that. We should be blaming them for making us so weak in the first two years of WWII in the U.S. Navy. England really was the #1 culprit who killed those Pearl Harbor and later battles sailors due to the ban on new ships for so long, not Japan.
It was a pity that with all of her major rebuild, the Navy didn't put a modern high pressure steam plant to bring her past the 21 knots of the standards.
The Ashes The Rain And I: a song from James Gang Rides Again w/ Joe Walsh. This badly outdated ship cost a fortune to refloat & repair to service for what? A single year after return to duty it found itself on the sideline for good. The resources we squandered when the U.S. Navy so badly needed big, nasty heavily armed heavy crusiers in the worst way, we resurrect an outdated battle-slug. They could not park it fast enough after the hostilities. Thanx.
It's a shame that none of the standard types were saved. The clipper bows were sharp looking.
Can you imagine what happened to the officer in charge of that engine telegraph?
She was a tough ship. She got knocked down but not knocked out. She got back up and got back in the fight. She gave the enemy what for, and then was standing by as they gave it up.
If that isn't honorable, I don't know what is. I imagine the souls of the sailors that perished at Pearl Harbor were able to rest then.
Thanks to those who stood up to fascism then. We need people like that now, as much as we did in the past.
I hope we're up to the task.
Mark Felton production team must see this Documentary
Maybe the WV Senators/Reps were more influential than the Washington State politicians..and credit goes to the tireless work done by all at Pearl in the aftermath..incredible salvaging efforts..
You know, I am amazed that even though U.S.S. WEST VIRGINIA may have been shorter and a few tons lighter than H.M.S. HOOD, she still has a more powerful main battery than the British ship. So I don't see why that HOOD was declared not only the largest, but the most powerful battleship in the world; when the COLORADO Class would have shot her out of the frame! 🤔
The Royal Navy classed the Hood as a cruiser. Historically, classing ships by size and tonnage has always been tricky. There is a video about frigates, which says that classes of ships is a confusing thing.
Hood was declared the most powerful because she could run 32 kn, nothing in the world could stand around her at that speed, until the next generation of 30 kn battleship came online. The mightiest battleship is useless if the enemy could run circles around her, staying out of range thanks to a vastly superior speed. In order to slow and catch her, you would need an act of God, or a very, very well trained squadron of torpedo bombers, and at the time of the Hood sinking (by another ship capable of 30 knots btw) the Colorados , nice as they were, could not expect much help, yet, from any American torpedo. But you are right, in that 'most powerful' is much debatable, especially if someone has something like the Nagato class, with 16" and 26 kn.
Hood was the largest battlecruiser ever built, which is different from a battleship. Battlecruisers typically had thinner armor (to a varying degree) and a somewhat lighter main gun battery than contemporary battleships, installed on a longer hull with much higher engine power in order to attain greater speeds. The US did not have battlecruisers because of the timing of the Washington Naval Treaty, otherwise Lexington and Saratoga would have been completed as battlecruisers and not carriers.
Hood was designed as a large battle cruiser. Late in her building, after Jutland the R.N. tried to make some changes to her. Being too late to make many changes they showed the idea of a Fast Battleship. Unfortunately, she never got the rebuild or modernization she needed.
Going into her last battle with Bismark her machinery was so worn out that her speed was nowhere near her maximum. Sadly she was never as strong as the British public thought she was.
@@jollyjohnthepirate3168with British resolve she sure was..Taking on Bismarck and Prince Eigon not shy of Stubborn bravery...Her sunk sealed Bismarck's fate.
I'm surprised that the military press at the time didn't discuss the decision to complete West Virginia rather than Washington.
Your P's are popping. 😊
I love West Virginia 😍❣️
Is it me or does the 44 refit look like an American Bismarck?
I personally really like the standard type bettleships especially the colorado, tennessee and Pennsylvania class and so on more so pre pearl harbour those tripod/lattice masts with the pair of 3 storey fire control tops were so unique I don't know what the post pearl harbour designers was on, but somehow turned a swans into ugly ducklings. more notable Pennsylvania and nevada were absolutely butchered.
A new Ford Class carrier will be named after Doris Miller.
It was probably politics. WV Congressmen and Senators were probaly louder and more promanent and louder than the WA ones.
Japan... Just so you know I won't go away, my torpedo blisters are too much for the Panama Canal,so..... Stand By.... Regards, West Virginia....
What crazy person put torpedo on a batte ships . Because to get close enough for torpedo run . Is putting your ship in the range other ships. Guns.
Old Wee Vee
The Battleship West Virginia Fought the Battle of Samar at Philippines 🇵🇭 at WW2
Ricketts would go on to bigger and better things
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_V._Ricketts