What medieval weapons would CENTAURS really use? FANTASY RE-ARMED
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Centaurs, the classic creature from Greek mythology, lets see what real historical medieval weapons best suit their physical characteristics.
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I know one thing that probably centaurs wouldn't want to use:
Siege ladders.
But could you imagine the rams?
artman40 That’s why they invented siege towers😂
@@lucasclark1669 Those still use ladders. Unless you want to built a crane on a tower to get the centaurs up there.
menno graafmans I know, I remembered that afterwards, but you could just make them longer and add ramps
@@mennograafmans1595 you could use a ramp to mount the tower, the problem would be going down after they reach the enemy walls if they use spiral stairs
Forget firing a bow on the move. I'm intimidated by the thought of heavy longbowmen with the ability to reposition and retreat with the speed of light cavalry. It would take a full cavalry charge just to keep them busy, and the second you let up, they resume harassing you with their full-sized longbows. And think of all the ammo they could carry! The ultimate medieval kite squad.
You make a fair point. High maneuverability and lower body strength isn't just useful for the front line, it's fantastic for everyone that wants to keep away from them as well
Shad have you ever actually ridden a horse? Galloping is actually reasonable smooth and the horse does not experience the same bounce that the rider experiences. Again, riders are not attached to their horses. So when the horse goes up, it pushes the rider, but when it comes back down the rider is left to fall. A centaur is completely attached so the horse body will pull the upper body down with it, instead of waiting for it to fall back into the saddle.
Just think about how steady your head is while you run, as compared to your backpack
Damn I feel that backpack's motion bouncing left and right, up and down when I run with it XD
And when you hold a bow, it now functions as the back pack...
@@estebro1471 Not so. You are HOLDING the bow after all. Have you ever steadied a coffee cup while running?
trequor I won’t lie, that is a fairly coherent viewpoint. Even then, wouldn’t the mere action of drawing the bowstring mandate absolute focus and strength? I haven’t a bow on me in the interim, but I must imagine it to be a cumbersome task. 😅
@@estebro1471 Depends on the draw strength. Human archers often use their entire body including their legs to help draw the longbow. So centaurs could aim a longbow while galloping, but they wouldn't be able to put their full strength into it. So IMO they would probably use mid-sized bows not full longbows but certainly bigger than typical cavalry bows.
However due to their manoeuvrability and speed they would get just as much power from the mid-size bow as a longbow and wouldn't need the range.
"The best weapon is a friend." Cue flowery images, and romantic music.
Best weapon is Friend?
Cue the barbarian throwing their ally at the enemy.
@@rylandrc Thet too, possibly.
The best weapon was really the friends we made along the way.
They win battles using the power of friendship
Your Best Friend
"the best weapon for a centaur would be a person"
that reminds me of a reaccuring question i ask my DMs:
"So if I use the Paladin as a club, does it do holy damage?"
funncubesde only to the paladin.
What ungodly value do you have for strength to be capable of asking that?
*Seems more likely a Priest would be good for it,*
so the newb still has worth after getting themselves KO'd..... eh? ^~^
funncubesde yes it does
hahahahahahahaha as a world of warcraft player that is just hilarious. it reminds me of that scene from phineas and ferb "buford's got him in a half nelson, now a full nelson! now he's beating him with bobby nelson!!!"
"Alright, let's see, we're fighting the Orcs today. What helmet should I wear? Yeah, this basinet looks good. Nice. And hmmmmm, we'll go with this Glaive. Now, which human should I wear...?"
Brilliant, awesome thinking.
Robert Ciamei You my friend need to write a novel.
Thanks for the laugh!
hey what if centaurs and wood elfs co-habitation. caused them to have a symbiotic relationship where they would fight in this style of there mutual benifit.
I'll take Maximus.
You always take Maximus!
He's small, quick with the crossbow, and has a sharp eye for the path of my elbows and sword; nor does he require tying down. Allows me to wear more armor, carry more bolts, blar de blar de blargh.
The boy's gonna grow up one of these days. You'll be ill prepared to fight with a man on your back.
Hogwash!!! The boy's lineage goes back ten generations, bred for their small size and quick wit. He'll not be more than five foot one hundred pounds. Had you had more forethought, you too would have bred your riders accordingly.
You pamper them!!!
I invest in them. Maximus rides me as we were one. For this, I've invested a fortune in his armor. He is near ready to stud, and I'll not breed him cheap. Think about that, as you drag your chained carcasses off the field, with their pants soiled and saddles running with piss!.
Scrolled down a bit and didn't see this idea: many historical warhorses were trained in rearing and kicking maneuvers to give their riders an advantage. But for a sentient half-horse, kicking would be as natural as fistfighting, and would certainly be incorporated into their martial arts. I'm imagining centaurs riding into battle with horseshoes resembling brass knuckles, as a backup side arm.
And don't forget the potential to use those kickers in unarmed combat! Centaur ninjas doing Hoof Fu!
Actually, this kind of would go with my idea for giving centaurs footwear - the horseshoe is out due to it being nailed to the hoof, and no one wants to nail something to their foot. However, there is something called a hoof boot, which can be removed, and serves the same purpose. So, something along those lines could do the job, and there is a precedence in the Roman hipposandle, which did the same thing, and could be viewed like the calaigae was for humans of the time. Granted, in real life, this was phased out for nailing horseshoes to the hoof, and modern tests show that the hipposandle might have been somewhat uncomfortable for long travels, but with the right modifications, a centaur could have their hooves protected during travel on stone roads, to say nothing about fights.
@@lockwoan01 Uhm, no _human_ would want something nailed to their foot, because our feet are pretty meaty, squishy, soft and sensitive. Horses have no problems with horseshoes though, since the outer wall of the hoof (in which the nails for horseshoes are driven) is just a solid chunk of insensible keratin. Centaurs would have little reason to be bothered by horseshoes.
@@rdevries3852 Or, maybe they would have an issue to having something nailed to their foot, as they might see it as being dominated/subjugated by another race, although it is possible for shoes to come off for one reason or another. In a way, it could be seen like the situation that the protagonist of the "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs" had with their Spray On Shoes, which never come off, although that case might be seen as worse. That being said, a boot can be strapped on, and taken off more easily, because no one wants to wear something on their feet all the time, especially if there's situations where wearing a shoe is ill-advised. Therefore, something along those lines might be preferred by a centaur.
@@lockwoan01 Or horseshoes on centaurs might be seen more like piercings on humans, except functional as well as decorative. Provided humans weren't actually enslaving centaurs, I expect centaurs would be fine with permanent body modifications that are beneficial to their health. Kind of how so many parents put their kids through braces when they're young, and no one comments on whether it's weird to glue metal to children's teeth and rearrange them over the course of a couple years.
@@faerystrangeme Maybe, but I do some riding at this one stable, and I've talked to them about this sort of thing. Horseshoes need to be replaced whenever they get loosened, or else there's problems. With strap-on boots, you could actually use them to apply topical medicines to help aid in healing and the like. They also seem to last longer.
*Watching shad talk about how he is going to mention the best weapon for a centaur*
Shad: "It's so obvious, a centaur should use a human!"
Me: "Yes of course! A centaur could ride around and toss angry dwarves at people!"
Shad" "Because the human could do anything mounted combat could!"
Me: "Oh well there's that too."
You made me imagine centaurs with the face of Orlando Bloom tossing Gimlis around. Thank you, that made my day ;)
i was like oh do you mean meat shield? oh nevermind
Yeh, honestly, same dude. I was for a second there thinking he lost it completely and was gonna suggest the centaur hold a human by the legs, like a sword, and swing them around
The idea of centaurs running around and tossing dwarves at people randomly is probably the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.
@@billysmith5409 “i want you to toss me” - a certain anonymous dwarf that we all know and love
"The best weapon a Centaur can use is a HUMAN ON ITS BACK!"
I didn't see that coming, but yeah, that makes perfect sense
@@wrexonus how?
@@crimsonking7179 since the human body is connected to the horse body, not sitting on it, the shock from the run would be compensated by the brain, think about how when you run your vision doesnt start shaking up and down, meaning horses dont experience the same kind if bounce the rider does while galloping
But when you shoot into a hoard of fucking Orcs u don’t care about ur accuracy u just want to hit something
@@gbereznyakov1 yeah your right. but the funny thing is that horses don't experience any sort of bouncing, humans bounce because they go up with the horse during the gallop, but they dont go down with it, leaving the person to fall, this doesnt happen to centaurs because they are connected they don't experience a bounce.
@@ezradavies5995 yes thats what I said?
The real question is:
How good would they be at polo?
Do dragons have 'But what about humans' t-shirts? Maybe in Skyrim they do, but then there, dragons don't wear clothes ... hmmm.
Ensensu2 if they can find someone to help them they could paint whatever they want. Their wings have a large surface surface so they make for a exxelent canvas. If the wings have properties similar to skin they could get tattoos.
And on the subject of purposefully piercing your own skin they could carve patterns into their scales. (reminds me of some jungle tribe that would cut their back so it looks like crocodile) carving into rheir scales like this has the advantage of not needing hands since thy could use thir claws. This wouldn't work if their scales are nearly indestructible like Smaug from the hobbit or the ones from dark souls.
Centaur VS. Flight of stairs
No the real question is:
what about dragons?
We need to put this in urban fantasy!
Some horse breeds, such as the Icelandic horses, can learn special gaits that are much smoother than the usual trot and gallop . Centaur archers could probably learn something like tölt, too.
If a person can learn to run and shoot a bow at the same time then a centaur obviously could.
Steven Clark probably be alot harder though
Gaited horses, true. Hadn't thought of that. Would make for greater accuracy, but I think they tend to be slower gaits. Most gaited horses have a very smooth trot, since that's the most useful speed (horses can canter and gallop long-ish distances, but it requires a lot of physical training for the horse) to go long distances. It's also by far the most uncomfortable speed to ride at (yes, posting/rising trot negates this, but you don't want to post for hours at a time if you can avoid it). Also, one use of gaits was to make it easier for horses to pull carriages, as the variation in the height of the horse's back complicates hitching immensely since the bars need complex joints (up down for the horse's gait, left right for turning, and any combination thereof), especially with multiple horses (you could have up to eight on large stagecoach). I think while gaited horses are a genius idea, the question of speed arises. If they either have a gaited gallop or a gaited trot is fast enough, why not? It solves the accuracy problem. Maybe a compromise for a fantasy world? Centaurs can shoot accurately while moving, but only at a trot? Seems like a good way to keep things sort of fair.
Thing is, the Icelandic is the only breed of horse that can tölt (and do what's called a 'flying pace,' but that's not the point here), making it unlikely that a 'non-Icelandic centaur' could do the gait. That being said, I'm sure, with practice, a centaur could find a moment of suspension in their gait, whether it's the trot or canter, and loose the arrow then. You could also just say that all centaurs are five-gaited, though horse experts might get irked.
I agree with Shad that mounted archers stand up in the stirrups to try and even out their aim - your legs act like shock-absorbers. Compared to most trots, a canter/gallop can be very smooth, and the added benefit of standing in the stirrups would make it a lot easier to aim, though never as easy as standing on the ground. But again, since the horse and rider are one in a centaur, I'd think they'd be able to train to find a moment of suspension in their movement and fire accurately then. It would probably slow down their rate of fire, but the benefit of being so mobile would negate a lot of the disadvantages of slow RoF.
One thing nobody has mentioned (that I can see) is that in mounted archery, the horse can still look out where they're going while the archer aims - a centaur only has the two eyes, so they'd need to have a straight path ahead of them or risk running into something or tripping. Or get so good at knowing where their 'moment of suspension' is that they can draw, aim, and loose in one or two strides, but that would only be master-tier archers.
Side note - with training, you can guide a horse without using reigns. The reason mounted fighters didn't often use two-handed weapons is because of the mechanics of it - have to watch out for a horse head and all that, same reason you can't use a longbow from horseback. Horses can feel that 10 lbs of head moving, so they know when you're looking over somewhere. Add that with knees, feet, weight, hips, posture, and more, and a well-trained horse and rider can move fluidly on the battlefield without the rider even having reigns. Modern dressage is based on that practice.
they got breath weapons, they are fine ;P
*ABOUT CENTAURS ANATOMY*
Imma adding something: as an artist expert in anatomy, I can definitely say centaurs have some structural issues. They need some fixing.
First of all, the spine. Secondly, the muscles. Third Organs and blood pressure to keep the brain going. So...
Their spine HAS to be made of HUGE vertebrae.
Not just like a horse neck but more like a giraffe! This because it needs to support another rib cage! XD (and possibly a second sets of organs), not to mention that the human arms swings a lot, and need support.
This means that the lower part of their human body NEEDS a totally different group of muscles.
They need massive lower back muscles, giving them a more "fat" appearance. (just like the neck of a horse, but human-torse-sized). The front part we can actually leave as it is, maybe they could have more abs... so instead of a six-pack they can have a ten-pack XD
Now... about the organs... This is interesting: They need two sets of some of them. Like the heart.
A blood system made of 2 hearts will give equal oxygen to both the human and the horse part. The heart in the human torso can be smaller though, since no human legs are involved. But it's crucial to irrorate correctly the brain and the upper muscles.
A fun thing could be a more complex digestive system, like what we have in cows. This could amply their edible food list, enhancing their survival skills in the wild.
Even with all of this what's in the video is perfect! The spine will still be a vulnerable spot!
But maybe they could have a different armor, a rigid plate (correctly shaped) can be effective to absorb the shock, especially if padded inside.
More importantly this could lead to a far more effective chivalry charge. Creating different roles in their army based on skills and armour, just like humans ;)
Yeah, I wonder the same thing too. I'm not an expert artist, but I am an artist. I assume their spine would have to be more flexible than a human's, and yes, larger muscles for lower back support, but what I can't get over is that extreme spine bend that connects the horse and the human together...I mean...you've got to be kidding. Still...the centaur is a very striking looking creature. But I can't help but think of all the complaining they would do because of their backs aching, and needing to lay down for a bit.
But that's where I figure that I need to think outside the box if I was to guess how such a creature would exist.
I'm not sure that they would need two sets of organs, for the same reason a giraffe doesn't need extra organs...they just need their organs to be much larger....so I guess then a centaur's organs would also have to be larger...and if we're going into their appearance, I guess they would be just massive versions of horses and humans for this reason. But I dunno really.
I'm writing a book that includes centaurs, and it's somewhat taxing to figure out how their anatomy works so I can figure out their daily life.
On a second thought about centaur organs...I suppose some of them would be divided. A larger heart for the human, a larger stomach for the horse, with all the other digestion.
The lungs I guess would be nearer to the human....so they would have big chests.
I don’t think the strength of the spine would be an issue,
A horses head weighs 10% of its body weight, A average horse weighs 1100lbs.
So you’ve got 110lbs of head on the average horse, The average human weighs 137 lbs, And when you take away everything Below the waist you’ll be well under the weight of the horses head
And they don’t need 300lbs of armoured knight on their back
So that will also lighten the load on their spine
@@Aron-ru5zk Almost there.
The issue was not the weight to begin with, but the spine.
Horse's vertebrae are HUGE. Therefore centaurs will need similar bones and muscles in their back, drastically changing their appearance tho. They'll look more chunky.
That's good points. But not insolvable issues.
A centaur with a completely human-looking and anatomically normal upper half grafted to a anatomically normal horse body wouldn't work. The horse body would be starved for air, there would be useless redundant organs in the upper half, It couldn't eat fast enough to keep up with energy requirements, ect. But mass-wise, it does work. A horse head+neck is about 10% of a horse's mass. On a 1500lb horse, that's the weight of a human. It's even about the same length.
I would just make the human body more similar to a horse neck. All muscle, slim, angled forward, with the head tilted back. The arms would be longer proportionally, to compensate for narrow shoulders. Head would be bigger than a human's, with a long face with a huge nose. While running, the body would tilt almost level with the ground.
Would basically remove the Centaur from romance novels, but as soon as you bring anatomical or god forbid evolution into describing fantasy monsters, you have to get flexible
Imagine an elven archer on a centaur's back. It's essentialy a highly functional auto turret. Damn.
Especially since elves (tolkien elves at least) are very good at riding bareback and are extremely light.
@@nathanpettifor876 elves are good at barebacking?
@@kalebb1226 yep. In chapter two of the two towers (lotr) it says and I quote, ' a smaller and lighter horse, but restive and fiery, was brought to legolas. Arod was his name. But legolas asked them to take off the saddle and rein. "I need them not," and leaped lightly up, and to their wonder Arod was tame and willing beneath him, moving here and there with but a spoken word: such was the eleven way with all good beasts.'
Yes, I'm a huge nerd.
Other fantasies I'm not sure, but that's Tolkien elves. I hope this was helpful, have a beautiful day :D.
@@nathanpettifor876 pretty cool
But that wasn't what I ment
@@kalebb1226 *facepalms
The human turret on the back. SICK. Best. Idea. Ever.
"Gaea" trilogy by John Varley. First book published in 1979 :) Same idea, along with the whole sitting backwards stuff. Only difference is, that both the human and the centaur used firearms.
2 gnomes is better. Doubles the missile turrets and can cast spells too. They ride like saddle bags so they pad armor the flanks. Maybe add a third in a back pack.
Genious, I'm gonna use that one in my next grand strategy rpg. Mounted Gnomes. Three times the fire power.
But it begs the question why didnt anybody use two riders in combat? its not like 2 people cant fit on a horse that happens all the time often with passenger riding side saddle which takes up more space.
The horse is capable of about 4 people, can carry up to 200 pounds and full plate armour weighs about 50-55 pounds so why not?
Just give the centaur 2 kite shields + gnome artillery. Death snowplow.
What about
FOUR ARMED CENTAURS
Terrifying.
EDIT: Wait, no.
A four armed centaur..
CARRYING A FOUR ARMED PERSON.
Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy comes to mind.
Xiang Yu from FGO
the four armed person carrying TWO FOUR ARMED HALFLINGS,
and said halflings carrying TWO FOUR ARMED GNOMES
and those gnomes carrying...
@@mrbisk689 TWO LARGE ARACHNIDS
now you're getting needlessly complicated and introducing too many variables into the melee calculations and dice configurations...
The Mongols mastered horse-archery by shooting when all four legs of the horse were in the air, so they could fire more accurately. That would be way easier if you control the legs yourself
So floating horses?
@@erichvondonitz5325 fire mid-jump is what he says
Bullet time
@@erichvondonitz5325 Reminds me of the floating reindeer in Robot Chicken
i feel the entire series can be summed up in this phrase
"when in doubt use bows"
Dovahdu vokun well, bows are basically medieval automatic guns. If you want to have a easy fight you probably take a pistol and not a knife (a revolver has a much faster reload then crossbows but still taking more time than a pistol).
true
Realistically, the bow is too vital in medieval warfare for a race to ignore.
when in doubt use polearms
not hobbits. dwarves were questionable, due to their shorter draw. elves only liked having range in the dark, with no real benefits during the day. Orcs are really the only ones who benefit from bows all around. did I miss anything?
My first thought, as I heard you saying " The best Weaopon would be a Human" was, a centaur grabbing a Human by his legs and swinging him wildly around in a mace kind of fashion. But independent human turrent is also a good idea.
*turret, "turrent" isnt a thing.
But what about 2 humans on centaurs back? I am not sure to what extend this would be viable in combat,but l seen movies where 2 people are riding on horseback but imagine a second human on a modified saddle to accommodate two people on centaur's back and one would be holding a lance while the other would be holding a short bow shooting stragglers or pursuers centaur or the first human missed.......Damn almost like a bomber at this point😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
A Gatling gun that fires humans
"a centaur grabbing a Human by his legs and swinging him wildly around in a mace kind of fashion"
Why stop at that? Equip your human two maces and swing them around while they swing the maces!
@@lesserquack5437 two is bad, because of their weight
Best conclusion, Shad. I never even thought about putting a rider on a centaur. Seems so obviously OP.
Probably a different riding balance
only thing is... convincing a centaur to let your ride them. probably have a better chance trying to convince the bank that they owe you a million dollars.
Mounting an intelligent dragon makes more sense because they have a different shaped
In much of fantasy (The Chronicles of Narnia being a prime example) few are allowed to ride centaurs and its considered a great honor when one lets you. For combat though, it would be pretty awesome.
@@herogibson Maybe, they could be part of a same nation wose army has a large tradition of humans and centaurs fighting side by side and it include units of humans mounting centaurs. This would not be seen as man and mount but as comrades wo suport each other. Like in the spartan phalanx, where you protect the guy at your side with your side, or the holly army of Thebas, where all the warriors fight in pairs.
I propose a centaur with saddlebags full of gnomes using crossbows or composite short bows. Two, three, maybe four on each side! Imagine the carnage! They're all strapped in like it's a roller coaster ride going sideways!
I just imagined goblins instead, just laughing while shooting from saddlebags.
Absolutely brilliant😂😂
That should be a show. 4 gnomes and a centaur
Couple notes to expand on this:
1) The centaur has one huge advantage over the horse/rider combo, which is full body proprioception - full control and feedback from the movement of both 'halves' of their body. This might not fully negate issues like increased inaccuracy while moving, any more than it would for a human archer trying to run and shoot - but it would unquestionably reduce it. In the case of the Centaur Lancer, it would be of vital importance, allowing them to much more precisely control the speed and response to impact - though to be fair as a centaur I think I would go with a spear most of the time in any case, due to its vastly greater situational flexibility. Which leads me to my next point.
2) Mobility is ultimately the greatest advantage of the centaur, bar none. This vast advantage in speed would make them unparalleled archers even if they weren't that accurate while moving. You'd basically be looking at a force of mongol cavalry archers combined with the potential range of english longbowmen assuming they were so equipped. This would be horrifying for most armies to deal with both strategically and tactically. Dealing with massed spear charges would be the final straw, but its the endless rain of long range fire with no good answer that would break most armies.
Add some Orcish Archers on their back that get off whenever it's time for a volley and OH DEAR GOD, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!
Didn't really consider the body-control element in my reasoning, you do bring up a point though.
@@rysonperry8069 The problem of body control is that the centaur's brain must do everything: Choose a target, aims and ensures that he doesn't trip on something or collide with the centaur in front of him. The horse takes all the moving problem from his rider's mind, allowing to focus on the archery bit.
@@solwen To be fair, it would be even easier for a centaur than for a human while he's running. Due to the 4 legs situation.
As a matter of fact, they may actually be *less* effective than human horse archer equivalents over the course of a long term campaign, and with less effective mobility for a number of reasons: the main one would be that nomadic horse archer armies such as the ones the mongols employed would usually have multiple horses per rider, so strategically their flexibility would actually be higher since they could cover longer distances in 1 go without exhausting themselves.
Yes, your choice for centaur weapons is reasonable, but what about DRAGONS?!
@Ishmam Masud - Cuz I Can Yes, I see you realized it, but what about realizing dragons?
Oh no, I'll be getting nightmares of dragons riding centaurs D:
jaraweiat wouldn't the centaur be riding the Dragon?
Dargon riding a centaur
Lmao, yes
Centaurs would be the Mongol of fantasy worlds. (Mongols trained to shoot when all four of the Horse's feet are off the ground. That would be even easier for centaurs to accomplish.)
That posture is actually incorrect, and we didn't learn this until a few centuries ago, even Leonardo Da Vinci made this mistake. Horses NEVER have all four feet off the ground.
They're the exception!
Horses feet leave the ground when pulled in under the horse mid gallop. This is when you let loose
@@EmeraldEyesEsoteric Jesse N is correct. Eadward Muybridge proved it with a series of cameras set up in a line. The error was in thinking that it happened with the hooves extended.
Unless the horse, y'know.... jumped...
12:46
I'm a bit late to the party, but as a horse archer, there's actually a couple of reasons we stand up before firing -- balancing ourselves before shooting is one of them! When I just started out, I often forgot to do this and remained seated; hitting the mark was still possible, but definitely harder. The biggest problem without standing up for me though, was nocking the arrow. We have methods to do it quickly and efficiently without having to look at the arrow, guiding it along our hands and fingers if you will, and as a starter this was nearly impossible for me to do while my balance was wobbly. The whole process between taking the arrow and loosing it took significantly longer; and while you're on a horse moving 30mph, it's easy to miss your shooting window if you take too long!
Finally, standing up makes it easier to turn, twist and maneuver around to hit any targets that may not be directly in front of you, as your hips have slightly more freedom of movement. In general, I don't think it's impossible to shoot if you can't stand up while galloping, but it'll definitely make your life a lot easier if you can!
If you were a centaur i think the problem of balance would be something that would come a ssecond nature simply because that is the natuarl way you would shoot
That human slave segment is such a great idea, love it!
Humbly, I don't agree...
Think of the danger the Centaur is exposing itself to in having a rider at all. That rider is sitting on its back, behind its back and head, while holding lots of sharp pointy objects.
Having a SLAVE in that position seems ludicrously dangerous to the Centaur, and negates any potential combat advantage.
It would be better if it were an allied nation... but still I think it unlikely due to the risks involved and the training required for Centaur and rider to cooperate effectively.
J_Eilonwy good fodder for halfling/goblin buddies
It would be TERRIFYINGLY effective if they could get around the risks though :)
Akuro Adennycila That's a good idea... Seems like a good balance between the risk and the gain.
Well, if the centaur goes down the human is dead because others will kill them either the enemy or other centaurs so that is a less likely possibility.
There is also the common convention that is adding a pretty strong bias where we assume humans are always the dominant or a very important figure in fantasy settings which is where the conception of pride where centaurs feel like pack animals for humans comes from.
If we take a step back, what about horses?
Why don't they throw humans off their back and stomp them to death? It is simply a role reversal where the answers can be applied to both sides and is very interesting to think about in regards to culture and other things.
1 human with a bow on their back.. Or 2 halflings facing opposit directions.. 🤔
@Kevin Warburton Carrying people on the sides might not be such a good idea. If one of them should die and becomes died weight it might through the centaur's balance off.
Another idea I just thought of after reading both of your comments (Mattias Nordstrom
and Kevin Warburton
) is two humans (forward and backwards) and two halfings on either side, depending on the size and strengh of the centaur in question.
@@Rooikat buff that centuar with magic and give them two shields!
Mattias Nordstrom ok, but like, the centaur should have some kind of melee weapon, the forward facing halfling should have a spear, lance, or sabre, and the backwards facing halfling should have a bow. A weapon to surpass Metal Gear!
Whoa, you're onto something here...
@@Rooikat If one of them dies but stays in the sidecar then the weight would still balance out, the main issue would be if they fell out. In that case the other one could climb onto the back to rebalance.
This is probably the most interesting entry in this series, because while the other fantasy races you've covered so far aren't all that different from humans except in terms of size, strength and dexterity, centaur anatomy completely changes the game of how they would fight. Nicely done. :)
As for future suggestions, while I have suggested minotaurs multiple times by now, I think a more interesting topic would be merfolk and other aquatic races, since fighting underwater comes with a whole bunch of other considerations to how a people would fight and what weapons they would use.
Or like Argonians in Skyrim. Being amphibious they do well in and out of water but prefer the advantages that water gives them. Drag the enemy down and drown him or sneak attack from the depths. Just read the Elder Scrolls lore! :-D
You know at this point the best weapon for a Minotaur is a dwarf riding on its back. Are all hybrid races now destined to be mount overlords in combat?
An interesting point about aquatic races is that it might not be practical for them to use metal weapons or armor since seawater wrecks havoc on the sort of iron/carbon steels typically used by humans for those purposes. The only metals I can think of that might be able to handle seawater and can be used for weapons are bronze or stainless steel, but both of those would limit the size of the weapons to shorter swords or knives. But in addition to that, it would be very difficult or maybe even impossible for merfolk to forge metal things underwater. I wonder what kind of alternative materials merfolk would have to use. Bone? Coral? Wood? Volcanic glass?
JZBai I would think something made from shells...a sort of mail armor but made from the shells. They are pretty tough.
If they're amphibious like Atlanteans or Argonians, they should make bronze-based thrust-oriented weapons, appropriately like the ancient Mediterranean style swords, spears, maybe even tridents.
They could also make use of steel-based weapons, but would have to be very diligent about avoiding rust; gilding or silver plating would be almost necessary in that case.
But if they can pull that off, then I imagine things like rapiers being pretty effective underwater as a sidearm, although spears would be preferred for those who already know they're entering combat.
And if they live mostly or entirely underwater, then they're pretty much stuck with some variant of Stone Punk technology: mainly teeth and bone carved up and tied together with sinew-rope.
As for the design of those weapons, well obviously you can make spears and harpoons, given a big, straight bone like a whale's jaw, and knives would be no problem. If you have access to big enough bones, you can carve them into lots of different shapes.
The one thing they might consistently avoid is shields. You're not at much risk of attacks from long-ranged weapons underwater, and a big hunk of wood or bronze would probably make swimming very difficult.
I don't know how effective arrows would be underwater, though I'd be interested to find out how that works. If arrows do well in water, then bows would offer a huge advantage to aquatic people, being able to strike at range from all three dimensions.
I've also had a thought that dual-wielding two identical ancient style swords would actually offer some advantage, but this would look awfully silly: they could use a leaf-shaped sword as a flipper. So they can move slightly faster while dual wielding. Just a thought.
"Can you imagine a centaur swinging a polearm."
I can because of the character Hecarim in LoL. He uses a polearm and spins it around for one of his spells.
*repeatedly in fast succesion*
I can because I own multiple Lynel spears in BoTW.
Helicopter OP
Shad's argument that centaur archery would suffer from the "horse" gait in a charge... I'd argue that the centaur would be aware of his/her own gait (Even at a subconscious level.) and would compensate for the charging gait with both there arms and upper torso. In fact whether from training, or just unconsciously, they would likely not loss an arrow until that point in there 'stride' where all 4 hooves were clear of the ground and there was no jarring impact to deal with.
Also Shad's overlooked the truly OBVIOUS weapon(s) of such a critter... It's horseshoes.
An archery charge, followed by a trample, and a parting KICK to the head... ?
Whowants Tono yes, something like this would fall under instinctive shooting.
Whowants Tono I was gonna say something similar. They would obviously jump or gallop at the point of arrow release.
FYI - it's "gait," not "gate."
TheNthMouse Thank you. Don't we all just LOVE Auto Correct (sarcasm)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eadweard_Muybridge
I was trying to remember the thing about when all hooves were off the ground when galloping.
The reason it's difficult for humans and humans have to employ the shock absorbing techniques of standing in the saddle is because they don't know when the hooves will hit the ground.
Also wish he'd mention Polish Calvary archery too but it's not as popular.
Did like the human on back concept though.
Every single Fantasy re-armed episode: "GIVE IT A POLEARM!"
POLEARM! BOW! TOWER SHIELD!
There is a reason they were so commonly used in mideaval warfare.
@@PunkZombie1300 The tower shield in D&D and Pathfinder is a Pavis, not a Kite Shield. The Kite Shield is represented by a "heavy wooden shield" in them.
@@dredlord47 I was just referencing how Shad regularly chooses those three as the best weapons in this series. I've never played DnD.
The bounce in the saddle for centaur archers would probably be partially negated by the fact that the centaur knows exactly how its feet are landing because it is a single brain controlling the horse and rider in that case. That may not be as big of an issue as you think.
you try and run around at full speed while aiming with a bow, the fact you're connected to the ground makes you bounce too much for that. horseback archers have the advantage of not being directly connected to the ground so they can focus on using their legs to negate the bouncing motion.
The advantage with bows on a centaur is that it can re position itself quickly versus enemy forces but get a full draw from a war bow. Also, with the larger body it should be able to carry a greater number of arrows then a foot archer.
CD the main problem I see with firing a bow at full speed isn’t the bouncing around so much as the fact that we swing our arms when we run.
@@fenrir6002 also he would be able to have another archer on it's back which would also shoot while moving
I agree. Humans running and firing is not a good comparison because a human's whole body is involved in running, arms pumping etc. A centaur wouldn't have that use for it's arms, in addition humand a running on a bipedal base which is infinitely less stable that a quadrepedal base. It could be an issue, but not a large one.
And here I am, trying to decide what would be the 'best' fit for my Centaur Fighter idea in D&D.
Was fully expecting to hear "Polearms aren't really all that great", but then I hear those same polearms would likely be MASSIVELY devastating because of the speed.
Thank you Shad!
And yes, I'm keeping a (Small) rider in mind for a friend.
THAT HUMAN THING IS THE MOST METAL IDEA I'VE EVER HEARD
'Mental, not 'metal'.
"Of curse 'mental' meaning genius, not insane.
smilejos67 metal is a common colloquialism meaning 'hardcore' or 'badass'.
New to me, thanks.
Damnit, I was totally going to suggest this idea until I saw this comment!
a fully armored centaur and a fully armored knight, both of them being armed to the teeth... that soundsquite metal to me, both figuratively and literally
So in essence: Every fantasy race should use polearms!
Maybe it´s because polearms are pretty deadly. Cheap to produce, relatively easy to learn and yet effective against more experienced warriors.
In battle? Of course, they are battle weapons.
Medieval Europe used polearms a ton for a reason.
WhiteTowerGuard
Yeah, scimitars were popular.
Now try using it against heavy infantry.
A Lance can rek anything in its way, q scimitar cannot.
A lance is not that effective against heavy armor, a poleaxe or a halberd is. With a lance you can only thrust, but thrusts would most likely glance off. That´s why you need a hammer on your polearm, alongside a blade to cut open some light infantry from afar. And that´s why you use poleaxes.
what is this nerd going on about? (then watches 12 more shad vids)
Thomas Middleton we've all been there...
That's how I ended up binge watching all of his videos.
The story of how one man, discovers the nerd within.
tacoman2.147 I'm in the middle of binging right now. Fuck man I want to see a Centaur mounted archery unit in a video game
Now I can't stop imagining a full plate centaur with a full plate knight on its back as some sort of warship/tank unit capable of taking out opponents in all directions.
Now I imagine a fully armoured centaur with an orc on his back, wielding a stronger type of bow and a goblin with a shield and spear in reverse behind the orc while the Centaur uses a poleaxe.
Chimera of Death
@@phillipwright254 oof Death parade
Pretty sure that's just a fantasy tank at that point
more like reversed orc with bow, spear would be shit in reverse
Also carrying a full legión of faries on portable barraks on the sides to reléase in the middle of the battlefield
the centaurs are knights, and they carry human squires
I read that as "human squirrels"
Ben Thomason a new fantasy creature
Yep, that's medieval, alright.
How about a knight And a squire on one to make a true medieval tank
As someone who's been riding my whole life, I know that the reason you stand when jumping or so is shock. You will feel more shock from the jump or foot fall[ hence why you're suposed to stand and sit in rythem when trotting] because of the fact that you're not connected to the horse. It's because we're much smaller, a centaur wouldn't have this problem. It's like when you're being carried by someone else, because it's not your body you feel the movement more. So a bow for a centaur would be a wonderful weapon.
p.s Another reason you stand when jumping or for archery again is for balance, a centaur would have better balance because it's their body and not that of another creature.
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!!!
though shooting an arrow while running seems really impractical
But achievable with practice
One thing to consider is control: when you are running you have much greater integrated control than when you are riding. Because any action while riding has to involve reaction and a degree of communication that you don’t need with your own body when running; it’s all one machine. So your degree of wasted motion would be much lower and your ability for complex integrated movement would be much higher. I am not sure it would be enough to completely offset the irregular impact when loosing, but men do shoot guns while running with lessened but still viable accuracy.
I imagine it's never been done because of how awkward that conversation would go.
"Hey Jerry, could you mount me, mate?"
"I'm sorry, wot?"
Well, homosexuality was acceptable in ancient Greece, Rome, medieval Japan, etc. so both parties would have a good laugh.
I love the enthusiasm you put into the ads! Now if I had money I'd get one.
didnt you die like a long time ago
Jonathon Hunt capitalism propaganda
That's why he has no money now
What's the problem Joe, just starve a couple of Ukrainians to death and sieze their property! :) (hopefully not too dark a humour :) )
nah just go loot some german corpses. im sure they have some money or items of value on em
Regarding horseback archery, the Mongols perfected firing the bow at the exact moment that all 4 hooves were off the ground, drastically improving accuracy. There's no reason a centaur couldn't do this also. (I assume the physics is similar to shooting a jump-shot near the peak of your jump for stability.)
I still wouldn't consider have centaurs use bows while moving because they're directly connected to the ground and even with that technique it wouldn't help as you need to aim first and you need to dampen the shock a little bit to do that. I can still see centaurs using bows while standing still or trying to proceed with as little vertical movement as possible, but when it's about hit and run a bowman on them would be much more of a reliable shot
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!!!
That would take much much much practice.
If perfected it could make a huge difference though.
I mean snipers can shoot in between heart beats who says a centaur can't do that
@@dancinganimals. sure. As I said, with practice.
I was allowed ones to play a centaur D&D (pathfinder) and I basically made it a ranger (horse-master) and build it to have dual scimitars and a combat style of "hit and run". Basically charge in, swipe my blades and run back. This allowed me to use full RUN-SPEED, witch on a centaur is HUGE, so I was always at a safe distance. Since the adventure was in a desert I was heavily inspired by Persian riders.
You know, that whole thing about the humans really made me want a story that uses the concept. Centaurs not as noble savages that keep away from humans, but utilitarian warriors maximizing their deadly potential.
Great video Shad!
Esteban Cespedes u want a story? ill give ya one.
It was a cloudy, rainy day. Yet the centaur John and his human friend Bob had to go fight in the war. Bob sat on the back of John, because bob tought it would make them OP as fck. John liked the idea, but had one question: "But what about dragons?!". Bob answered: "The enemy probably has no dragons so we are fine...".
When they arrived at the battlefield, they were told to try to flank the enemy. But then they heard a loud roar.
A dragon maybe?!
They looked to where it was coming from, and saw some big bear like creature thats there for no reason other than making the story progress faster. The bear thing charged at them but they ran away, hoping to be able to outrun it. Then john tripped over some dead tree or something and fell, crusing and killing bob in the process... then the bear killed john and ate both of them... the end.
qcklu niets majestic
Esteban Cespedes
now...
damn...
i need to write that story now!
NOW!
New OP fantasy warfare confirmed!
Imagine they would team with dwarfes instead of humans for direct battle cause they could carry twice as many Soldiers of equal strengh and kill potentual to human ones.
And the possibility for ELVES!
Imagine 2 double wielding beings with the speed of a horse but the combined strenght and possible advantages of a human a horse and an elve at the SAME time!
This battles would be epic...
john wasn't a zombie at the end. I'm disappointed
Outside of the actual battle centaurs would have a big advantage over normal cavalry in training, in that you only need to train one life form rather than training two and also training both to work together. Another advantage would be balance. Using any big weapon on horseback risks making you lean too far forward and fall off. Obviously a centaur is not going to fall off himself. As for humans on the back you'd want to make sure they were on their side. If I had a possibly resentful slave I would not want to give him a weapon and put him directly behind my head. Maybe a centaur group would live together with a human community.
Balance is still an issue, since a human torso and head is much bigger than a horse's head. They are very much front-heavy
+Péter Baán Yes but that matters a lot less to a quadruped since the bottom half of the body is much more stable. The centaur is unlikely to over-balance him/herself so much as to tip over the whole lot of his/her long body whereas a human would be much more likely to simply fall off a horse.
I assume that is not actually a problem as the animal would evolve away from such a poor design.
+Ninja Warthog I don't think we can bring evolution into this. Centaurs, more so than any of the other races this series has covered, are unnatural. Their not just a different creature, they're half one creature, half another. Their origin is extremely unlikely to be from natural evolution. Plus evolution doesn't get rid of every physical issue. The appendix springs to mind.
Evolution does not care for your origin. The weak will die the strong will survive and over time your balance issue would diminish, as there is a clear survival advantage. Particularly if the species fights to the death like in war.
I heard that the mongols would wait until the moment that their horse's feet were all off the ground to shoot. I think the centaurs could just jump right before they shoot to diminish the bumpyness.
Great point!
I also think that the movement would not be as harsh as most people think. It is much easier to compensate the running movement when you run yourself and cause the motion yourselfe, than if you are mounted on another living beeing and have to compensate for its running behavior. It would still be difficult for the centaurs to shoot while running, but much more easy than shooting while sitting on someone who is running.
Even if they can't deal with the bumpyness, they can move, stop, then fire their massive longbows.
Really, this guys research level is barely High School level.
The problem lies in aiming, not shooting. The bumpiness would affect aiming because it takes a few seconds to acquire and center a target before loosing the bowstring.
Ah yes, the best weapon for this warrior is...
Another warrior! Never change Shad, you glorious crazy man
You said that centaurs would not use shields... But what about dragons?
Also, the most obvious would be to carry a *dragon* on their backs.
Dragons don't use weapons, they make you beg them for forgiveness and donate all your valuables or else you won't fight them, you wither and die helpless and alone. See, the dragon flies ahead of you to whatever settlement you're going to and burns it to ashes. All wells poisoned, all the children and livestock and people burned. They do this for about 2 weeks, because you will die of starvation before long. They live for many thousands of years, harassing you for a week is our equivalent of light trolling for fun. Dragons are smart, very very smart. They've met people who died before your great grandparents were born, and all the meanwhile they've had a treasure hoard, so people have been playing these games with older dragons since before you learned about iron as a species.
"What weapon would a dragon use?" Utter despair and intimidation.
Dragons use centaurs aus full automatic shoes. Just grab them and they will carry you from a to b. You can even eat them when you're hungry.
EclipseClemens
"What weapon would a dragon use?" Utter despair and intimidation. Genius now tell me what weapons beholders use I got to know!
Talons, firebreath, possibly a spiked tail. Maybe even magic. Why would a dragon need a weapon>?
I was actually thinking of symbiosis between centaur and humanoid. It would be great deal of honor to be human on centaur and would show intense trust and respect.
Especially for a knight.
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!!!
"Oh so you want me to pass the salt...
BUT - WHAT - ABOUT - DRAaAAaAAAGONS?!?!?"
I wonder how effective would a centaur with a halberd be against dragons...
Or an ork with his massive bow.
The centaur pride thing where they don’t want to be treated as animals mostly applies to things you use Cattle for such as cart pulling .
They tent to be ok with giving people a ride if they trust the person, I think it’s likely that in the context of battle they would be fine with a person riding them.
holy shit never thought of all the posibilities of centaur riders... or better said carrier centaurs?, blown my mind, good work shad
Thanks mate, In didn't see it for a while either ^_^
i had that idea at the verry beginning of the video.
and i got that idea from the elderscrolls lore where it said somewhere that the shape that a kajiit takes depends on the fases of the moon at the time of his birth, they can range from almost elf like humanoids, furry cat people and huge jaguar men to more cat like ones which contain varieties that can resemble common house cats, large wild cats and some can be as large as mammoths.
and it said somewhere that the humanoid kajiit would ride the larger beast like kajiit into battle.
Centaurs...with chariots.
Think about it.
me and a friend have think of it for a pathfinder game a while back then and we were a dangerous team, hey you were able to it my friend who is my mount then i will make a ride check to see if i can negate your hit because of my feat mounted combat (only one per round) and i give him my shield bonus also because of another feat so he can use a two-handed weapon and still receive a shield bonus to AC, it was a superb combo
oh fuck, centaur chariots are an amazing idea!
Two-handed polearms have been used by cavalries like the naginata for the samurai and the Persian Aswaran lance (giant two-handed spear).
The naginata would be perfect giving the added reach to clear their rear flanks. Also it's a very agile weapon in terms of polearms
Lets not forget about that Korean flail
16:55 Centaur be like "FFFFFUUUUUCK YYYOOOOOUUUU!" as it gallops straight at you and clocks you on the head with a giant fuck-off poleaxe.
Nothing summarizes Centaur combat better than the phrase "a giant fuck-off poleaxe"
Nah, not the head, more effective area would be just below the ribcage and get the spine, kill him and for sure give his allies ptsd
Yeah his allies won't love seeing their dying friend puking out his organs.
Charles Courtwright But you can make a head fly 200 yards through the air and fall down a rabbit hole
also, a scythed armor for the equine part of their body if they intend to fight in loose formation.
One of the features of my centaurs is that they're insanely flexible. So flexible that they do things that humans consider very weird the first time they see it. Such as turning their top half around 180* without strain and leaning over to basically fold themselves in half to tighten straps under their belly. (They also have the balance to climb a ladder which REALLY throws off one of my POV characters. Seeing a centaur casually balancing on a ladder with nails fanned out in his mouth and a hammer in his hand was odd. The humor of the moment is that the centaur was just as thrown to see a human casually strolling down the street. Neither of them was prepared for that visual.)
I was inspired to this because of the weird crap that my own horse actually did. Such as laying down to wriggle under a barbed wire fence set 10" off the ground to get into the neighbor's garden, rearing up to easily balance on his hind legs to rip multiple apples down from a tree, or sleeping flat on his back with his legs straight up in the air.
You have NO idea how often people would knock on my door to sadly inform me that my horse was dead. I'd slip on my rubbers and stomp out into the pasture. "Halo, you fat tub of lard! Stop scaring the city folk!!" The ass wouldn't move until I was three feet up on him. Nothing like 900 pounds of tubby horseflesh casually passed out on his back with legs akimbo to freak out the city slickers. smh Until you've actually owned a horse you have NO idea what they really can do with their bodies.
So yes. My centaurs can low-crawl. They can do it because I've seen a horse do it. I've also seen horses easily climb up stairs (my neighbor's daughter brought their Arabian into the living room "because it's cold outside." She got up to find her six year old daughter cuddled up against the belly of her mare, the two of them watching Saturday morning cartoons), slide down extremely steep, muddy hills on their butts, and flip around a full sheet of plywood or toss a large tire for fun.
A point that I haven't seen anyone bring up yet: artillery and seige engines.
Centaurs should be able to both transport and operate things like scorpions and mangonels, eliminating the need for a team of animals to pull. Essentially, it turns them into a medieval fantasy "self-propelled" artillery. They may or may not be able to operate a trebuchet depending on the type, but they could certainly be a valuable part of the crew. Provided cover, centaurs should be superior at moving something like a seige tower or battering ram forward. In the case of the latter, their increased mass and "lower body" strength should also be able to operate a covered seige ram with fewer personnel.
I'm not saying that this would be their best role for this fantasy race, but it may be a role that they can perform in a superior and/or more efficient way than other fantasy races or humans.
but why would centaurs attack cities, there is after all reasons why soldiers dismount to attack cities and historically horse mounted nomads don't typically attack cities well. atleast not without infantry that centaurs obviously don't have. centaurs should be the huns of a fanacy world, maybe mercenaries or federatii in other races armies aswell but they should shun cities and fortifications. remember elves/dawfs/orcs/humans/humanoids would build castles with tunnels too small for mounted soldiers/centaurs
Matthew Burger
I agree with your overall point. I don't think that a centaur nation, state, or tribe would be interested in a city, except to remove it as an enemy base and raze it to the ground. For a fortified city or a castle, it would make a lot of sense for them to besiege and bombard them into submission, rather than to take it by assault. Maybe hide the strength of their numbers and trick the defenders into trying to come out and break the siege, but that's a trick that only works once.
More importantly, though, I think that all of the best battlefield uses of centaurs are much more effective when they are part of a coalition. This gives them the opportunity to play their strengths to the max, while covering their weaknesses. However they're employed, they're a specialist unit, and such units get the best results when their way is clear to do whatever it is they do best.
A Certain Chen
I agree that it would be against their predominant personality traits. Sometimes, though, it only takes a few individuals with an unconventional but well-executed plan, to pull off something thought to be impossible. ;)
@@matthiuskoenig3378
They wouldn't necessarily shun cities. They would just build cities with dimensions, width, gauges, etc. adapted to their folk's size. Same for their scaffolding. :-)
@@richard6133 There was an episode in D&D lore where centaurs out of desperation assault a city and win but with heavy loses.
For the back bending part, I feel like there'd be some serious internal evolutionary safeguards there, even if you can't see them. Like how woodpeckers don't look particularly odd compared to other birds, but have some serious evolutionary traits to protect their necks and brains from impact trauma, or how headbutting animals have a lot of stuff going on with bone and muscle structure that keeps them from instantly dying from those impacts like most other animals would. If there wasn't, that weird 90 degree angle where horse meets man would be crazy unstable. They'd be getting injured just from running and bouncing about, and dying from very basic impacts to the human part pushing it back.
Reminds me of that picture someone drew of baby centaurs with perfectly functioning colt bottom halves and floppy human infant top halves. I can't imagine they would survive well like that. The same evolutionary mechanism that they would use to solve the floppy baby problem could help them use lances without breaking their backs in adulthood.
Do Minotaurs next!
Alex Ramos
In before weilding a bow that can fire balista-teir arrows...
Minotaurs are such a dumb monster though!
They're the body of the weak animal and the brain of the stupid animal.
Hey Shad, have you ever thought about looking at the weapons, armor and races of the Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild?
That's what I've been asking ever since he started this series. :)
Probably a noose to end its miserable existence trapped in a maze it literally cannot navigate because of its sideways pointing eyes. Sideways pointing eyes are not the eyes of a predator, they are the eyes of prey.
I think that the primary weapon of a centaur would be a pike, so they could outreach pike blocks.
And as a human fighting centaurs, lots of pike block.
...
With longer pikes.
I can imagine a fantasy world with an arms race consisting of humans and centaurs making longer and longer pikes so they can out-pike one another
Or a long, hollow lance. Cue music
THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
You wanted to say "front and Centaur", didn't you? 😉
New t shirt.
>horseback archers used relatively short bows
the japanese would like to have a word with you
The Hungarians too
Additionally just because the bow is short doesn’t mean it’s weak. Much the same way crossbows using different materials can achieve vastly higher draw weights in the same space, a composite bow can have VERY heavy draw weights. I believe Turco-Mongol bows could easily exceed hundred pound draw weights.
He is right. Short bow was the main weapon for partias, huns and mongols.
@@ferencgazdag1406 Really? That sounds really interesting. Do you know where I could read more about that? Was it back before they settled as a kingdom when they were more nomadic?
@@adainhoodges6643 I don't quite know, i've read it in our history book in Hungary.
Civilized Centaur society must be the kindest and most open in the world. Since each person has to wipe their friends ass.
if horses don't wipe, why then would centaurs?
The horse anus is very very good at defecating without getting dirty. There is a complex mechanism that makes sure the unwanted stuff leaves the body with minimal mess.
@@MidnightSvn
Because centaurs are, basically, humans with an equine lower half.
Johanna Geisel facts I always wanted to know
Even tho I laughed hard when I read this, I have to strongly disagree. Cause 1, horses dont wipe and they have special butt powers to prevent them from getting dirty. And 2, even if the need to wipe, give them a couple of mirrors, a stick with some paper on the end and done. Can see and reach your own ass.
the First Aid for Fairies (and other fabled beasts) is massively underrated in terms of fantasy and actually does go into the anatomy of a centaur in that it posits they have two hearts, one big and powerful for operating the horse body, and one smaller for operating the human
Mounted. Automatic. Gun.
We need to take Centaurs out of the medieval era and let them REALLY shine.
They would be freaking tanks.
would you mind if i borrowed this idea for a futuristic/modern universe??? because i think it'd be interesting!
i believe india used camels with light cannons attached, as a very mobile artillery/mortar team. they were called wasps due to their mobility and harassing technique
not to mention and armored camel is and absolute juggernaut
@@azutheboredcat2441 It's been done, though I think Dragonstar is out of print, it was D&D with space travel.
they ARE freaking tanks 😂
Horses are too Big targets on a battlefield, a Centaur even bigger
A machinegun or sharpnel would obliterate them before they can even get on fighting range
I had thought of the human + centaur combo before. I've even thought about having a hobbit with a crossbow in the backpack of a tall human barbarian. When the crossbow is reloaded the hobbit will say "steady" and the barbarian will be steady and in defensive stance for 2 seconds for the hobbit to fire a close range aimed shot of at the enemy.
This way the hobbit can have a great angle of attack, fire at close range and be in safety all at the same time.
Put the hobbit and the barbarian on the back of a centaur.
In age of mythology centaurs use bows.
Also Centaurs are usually depicted as intelligent. That should also be taken into account.
But not intelligent enough to allow people to ride on them, despite the massive advantages of such pragmatism.
@@Landis963 Because "riding" means "Someone on top". Even is the human is not controlling him he/she is on top of you. With a full portion of your back and neck exposed. And even if it posse a HUGE advantage they would ot let you. That is the same problem of why some mother don't breastfeed their baby with their own milk. Even proven sientifically it's advantages they don't do it for "reasons". Same problem; Close minded people/centaurs.
@@eldarhighelfhealermiriella7653 Exposed back and neck is what I thought of during the "what if they kidnapped humans" bit. I would assume the centaur wears armor, but if the human somehow smuggled in a short weapon and is right up in there, openings are obvious. Down goes the centaur. I'd imagine a cooperative partnership would be the only safe way to pull this off.
Yeah but they have to stop in order to fire an arrow Even more that an elite mangudai
Actually Centaurs are depicted as being Drunkards to an extreme level the vast majority of the time. The one exception to this is Chiron, but that's more to do with being a Demi god than a centaur.
I think centaurs would definitely let people ride on their back as part of their battlefield tactics but I don't think they would want to use humans that they've kidnaped cause the humans would likely rebel sooner or later. While it would be a very effective strategy it would be one that they could only employ if they had someone that was willing to fight along side them and ride on their back into battle.
Depends how the centaur treats their squire.
For context, the Turks kidnapped thousands of children from the Balkans and enslaved them so they could function as the empires greatest warriors. These kidnapped slave children grew to became the most privileged decadent bastards in the entire empire.
You're not getting any revolts out of these guys, not unless you try to abolish their status and make them ordinary citizens again which some Sultans did and they usually got killed for it.
All I'm saying is, not all slavery is the cotton picking laborer kind
If your centaur was a bro, you'd probably live a nice life with a lifelong companion and friend. He'd probably teach you important life skills to help you survive.
I don't think you'd get any slave revolts from kidnapped slave humans.
You'd probably get a few cases of "Oh that dickhead Khyros abused his squire then one day he fucking stabbed him in the neck, what a moron." But I think most centaurs would be smart enough to try and avoid that kind of fate. I imagine most Centaur-Squire relationships would be more like family, like elder brother to younger brother rather than master to slave.
yeah, giving your back to an armed slave is just begging for trouble
@@moritamikamikara3879 This
Was waiting for the human-on-back theory all episode and then was like, "well, obviously". Though admittedly, as a human, the idea and possibilities of a symbiotic relationship between human and centaur is much more appealing. If they were to enslave humans, I doubt they'd actually get as much use out of their "weapons" compared to if they were to strike some sort of deal with, or even befriend them. Because let's face it, if the centaurs were to go up against a human army one day, there's no doubt in my mind that the slaves on their backs would turn on them instantly if they saw even the slightest opportunity to get away. Not a funny thing to imagine a clear enemy on your back and put a weapon in their hands. Then of course there's the matter of whether the slave was captured or "bred", and how easily humans get attached to other living creatures and how much of a centaur's thinking resembles ours in that respect... gosh, this idea gets very complicated very quickly, doesn't it? Add social, cultural, biological and emotional aspects into this and it turns into a right mess of possibilities.
So, "Brony," "Planet of Apes," or "Monster Musume" sort of mix/mess of things eh? ;''3
(I mostly am a Mia fan so I kinda tend to forget the horse-girl's name. lulz)
It's pretty easy to remember names from Monster Musume, because they're variation on the species name. Centaur girl's name is Centorea.
Monster Musume does things right in this regard - you need a special bond with the centaur to ride her, as one should have with somebody you're going to be fighting together with.
Ottoman Empire had Janissaries
For a human assistant to work, the human rider would have to be an ally and probably a knight, for medieval fantasy combat.
A centaur with a human on its back with a scythed chariot with more humans in it!
I seen that in an anime with centaur looking robots.
Even better!
Wow, that's a tank...
Humans with bows! Or better yet, elves/half-orcs!
Good God, at this rate this may be deadlier than a pommel!
Holy cavalry tactics, Batman!
Putting a soldier on the back of a centaur, especially in a saddle designed to sit the rider facing backwards, would be such a huge asset. So many combat tactics. One disadvantage you didn't touch on is the fact that horses have a very difficult time turning on the spot, so if a centaur were flanked, they would be in a lot more trouble than a human would be. But, if you have an extra set of arms on your back protecting your flanks, that prevents infantry from being able to easily surround and cut off the centaur.
Alternatively, the centaur could be used as a fantasy-age troop deployment. Imagine being able to drop off armored soldiers on the enemy's flanks and ride off. If you try this with a horse, you loose your mount; not so with a centaur who can take care of himself, and provide additional harassment to enemy ranks.
Two words: briton chariots
Pretty much special forces dragoons. As dragoons where support cavalry who would arrive at spots where the line was breaking and dismount in order to reinforce the infantry but this time instead of it being a support troop it would be a deep infiltration and flank harassment. Also i think centaurs would not be hindered by their shake when they are shooting bows as their bodies would be used to it and have adapted to the shaking. Humans shake too when they run and walk but they are pretty accurate there is also the fact that something that is being carried shakes more than the object that is carrying. If you dont believe me give someone a piggyback and run and then get a piggyback by someone that is running it is a completely different sense of motion.
Yo dawg, I heard you like lancers so I put a lancer on your lancer so you can lance while you lance.
If one were writing a fantasy series based on centaur archers, they could introduce a mechanic where centaur archers are only effective once they are able to master certain gaits and running techniques that allow them to run more smoothly. I would assume that it would be easier for a horse person to train themselves to run smoothly than it would be for a person to train a regular horse so that could factor in.
YES you are a GENIUS! Another humanoid sitting backwards on them! This needs to be a thing So Much. There should be a special saddle and it's not like the turret-dude needs to see where they're going so yea. Full 360 combat and in high speed too Awww Yeaaa!
Tyoka Bina A great idea would be really powerful kingdom consisting of Centaurs and humans living together, and their army has hands down the best mounted warriors in the land. They do this by pairing off their human and centaur recruits off at very young ages, and essentially have them train and grow up together.
at this point you can add different cultures to this. one culture were the two races live as equals, and developed a very flexible and wiled form of fighting, and two other where one has enslaved the other, and have a much more rigid way of use of the other race.
To a lesser degree, that's what I have in my fantasy world. Large taur, a main rider, and three smaller riders defending the rear.
Thinking about it centaurs really need human servants just for grooming. it would be really difficult for a centaur to groom or dress/armour themselves.
yes they could do it communaly but human grooms would make it so much easier.
Once you have a groom you need to escort you into combat much better if they are armed and trained.
thus you'd have Centaur knights and their groom squires who maintain and equip their armour and fight beside or upon them
That would hindering the movement of the centaur itself. Try thrust a spear while piggybacking someone. Not only it will be heavier, it also blocking the hand while thrusting or swinging.
For the logic aspect of that world, it won't happen. Letting a fully armed human/other humanoid race riding on their back is like exposing your back purposely. They are warriors, they won't let that happens.
I know it is a fantasy world, but it still need a logical reasons for everything. That piggybacking thing will break the logic of the world itself and gets the middle finger from the reader.
Huh never seen you before but you have a subscriber because I was expecting this to be some guy talking about his personal preferance not someone like you who actually does research and knows how weapons are supposed to be used
if this was your first shadiversity video, you are in for a treat.
Of all things, Monster Musume has human warriors riding centaurs.
*facepalm*
oi monster musume is the shit
That's why I like it! XD
Rodrigo Ugarte it also gives an answer as to why they don't usually let themselves be riden lol
NeoDaVinci 97 Yeah....Anime answered some of his Questions XD (Now Centrea just needs to use an Curved Sword)
I think the Archer thing isn't such a draw back as you might claim. Sure a Centaur at full gallop might not be that accurate, but likely still be able to hit an enemy army with reasonable accuracy. But the big advantage is being a mobile artillery unit. If they use longbows and are able to out run most oncoming infantry they can fire, reposition and fire again. After all most human archers are complete rubbish at fighting and mowed down by enemy Calvary.
The Centaur would be able to out position most enemies, carry way more arrows and in general just be amazing as Archers.
Being the horse and archer would give them full control. That's something a mounted archer does not have. The centaur would be able to stop on a dime to fire and then run at will.
There are archers who can run full speed over rough terain and fire accurately..... so i think it's just a matter of trainning.
and a centaur doens't need to learn to control a freaking horse first :)
uhh, can horse archers sit while shooting with bow, like sit continuously while keep shooting? just curious.. 😮
@Natasel is there any possibility that a cripple can be a horse archer? please answer...
@Natasel Nice, thanks. 😁😁
@Natasel it took me 2 months to know the answer.
I remember reading this on imgur, it talked about the fact that newly born horse can pretty much run around from the minute they are born while human babyes cant hold their own heads properly, lets combine those 2
BaconSalad its beautiful
BaconSalad I would think that Centaurs would be born more developed, more like a 5 year old than a new born, but can't really talk yet.
You have a nice house. Oh crap, I forgot about the dragons!
"Check out my house. Pretty nice, eh?"
"But what about DRAGONS!?"
"Oh, those? I got that covered. The outside walls aren't flammable, and I made an agreement with the local dragons to provide livestock in return for not burning my house down."
J. Villeneuve
What about dragons dropping stones from top?
*GASP*
CONVENE THE DRAGON COUNCIL, THE ALLIANCE MUST BE UPHELD! TO WAR AGAINST THE ROCK-DROPPING INFIDELS!
I'd love to see a centaur as the mobile launch platform for a 50-strong Long-Razorblade/Needle armed fairy war-swarm
The ''Best Weapon'' you came up with had me burst into laughter XD but it makes perfect sense, truly a force to be reckoned with in war.
"With six limbs actually ?" At this moment, i knew centaurs were insects in disguise.
Also, how are they breathing enough ? I mean, human's lungs are efficient enough for a human body, but is it still the case for humans who have the body of a horse as legs ?
I tend to believe that they rely on the horse organs more, because of the sheer size of them, and I theory there's something else in the human torso that serves a magical function
Jazz Vez *they could have a huge heart and lungs that take up the whole human torso since the rest of the organs can be in the horse part*
@@Aron-ru5zk the lungs of a horse is very big... Like *VERY* big. So large it won't fit in the human body, even if you don't put anything else in the torso
Victor Millen yeah you’re right,
A human has a lung capacity of 6L and a horse has a lung capacity of 50L so a human has 1/8th the lung capacity of a horse.
even if a humans lungs were 2x the size and took up the whole human torso It’d still only be 1/4 of a horses lung capacity
They should have big breathing holes somewhere in the middle of human half.
Otherwise it wouldn’t be possible to supply horse lungs enough air.
Full armor, Big axe, and an archer on the back. Throw a good saddle on the back armor for the archer. I like it.
thx for the good episode
I think armor would be especially important for centaurs because they are huge targets and would have trouble defending certain parts of their back. i guess they could even harness weaponized armor with blades attached to the sides or a ram at their chest (using their high speed and momentum). another important attack tool could be horseshoes with spikes, blades or just sharp edges, for close combat.
A human rider could also resupply the Centaur with ammunition and weapons. Great idea mate.
Javelins, four or more quivers of javelins simply grab rush, trust, let go and repeat. also throwing one at high speed while being the head of the horse. ouch deadly.
I thought of Javelins as well
It is a very pricey method however. Javelins would still need metal to be effective. And does thrusting really work on armor?
@@Allycat-wc8hj depends on the armour doesn't it.
@@Allycat-wc8hj Javelins are more effective than conventional bows against armors as they are heavier (more kinetic energy on that metal tip)
or Tepoztopilli.
The human sitting in a rear-facing saddle and firing backwards is optimal. One of the key advantages a centaur has in combat is its speed. With a rear-facing archer, the centaur can charge, make its own attack, and the archer can continue the attack on targets left behind while the centaur presses forward.
I still think that in a fantasy medieval world, centaurs could probably ally themselfs with small races such a kobolds or goblins for that purpose... Humans are too heavy and lack the manouverability to be optimal in combat like that. I'm thinking in a tower-like saddle with a small creature shooting arrows or even small ballistae in all directions while the centaur use a big pole axe to slash their enemies.
I would think gnomes or halflings. I dont think kobolds or goblins would get along with them.
I disagree with you Shad. Swords like the flamberge is devastating battlefield weapons. (I know that it is an early renaissance weapon, but the rapier is also a renaissance weapon but it is still used in many fantasy roleplying games like D&D).
I think the flamberge would be just as good as a polearm in some situations.
There is also another place where I disagree with you: You said that they don’t need warhammers and maces because they had polearms, especially poleaxes would be good.
I agree with you that they do not need warhammers and maces, but I think a billhook would be better suited for them, than a poleaxe.
So if I was a centaur, and I should pick a melee weapon for a battle, I would either choose some kind of greatsword (like a flamberge), or a billhook.
And as always a good video Shad. (-:
omg, just think about a centaur charging at you with a poleaxe AND a lance (from the guy on their back)...
that would be BRUTAL!!!
then again...
WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS???
an armored cart drawn by 4 armored (and armed) centaur, with orc archers on their back, dwarves and minotaurs with bows in the cart, along with humans and elves throwing pommels at everything :D
we may have just invented medieval tanks :D
Naw that tank needs more dragon in the disposal. I mean the current dragon ratio is zero. :'D
ye, but how do you fit a dragon in a cart?
i mean, i guess you could go with a dragonling or two (a few added flamethrowers never hurt nobody (except the ones they were supposed to hurt, but you know...))
but while we're at it, let's put a few on the shoulders of the centaurs aswell, dragon-pirate style
and have their halberds coated in oil, or strapped-on gunpowder that the dragonling could ignite when striking
hell, coat the pommels in oil, and have the baby dragons spit fires on them when thrown
NAPALMS HAVE FEELINGS TOO PEOPLE!!!
that sound better? :D does to me :D
the human/centaur combo killed the dragons a while back
Meh... just throw pommels at them all... or just one pommel if you are too wussy to do multiples.
Just a comment on the mounted archery, but it seems to me that while a human needs to compensate for the stride, a centaur might not. The reason I say this has to do a body's ability to absorb and correct for it's own shock from motion, like holding a full cup while moving. Secondly, and this could be wrong, don't most mounted archers fire between the strides to avoid the shock from hoof fall? It seems like a Centaur could control their stride to take some skipping type step to increase airtime and loose a shot after a very minor correction for accuracy. This would be something very hard for a mounted archer to do since they wouldn't have the foreknowledge, and since during the jumps you would want to make sure you don't fall off more so.
As for the human mobile turret attachment, i think some of the benefits could translate to help the human archer for a Centaur also, as a verbal command could warn them for skips and jumps, saddles could be more secure as there mobility might not be as necessary to cover a full side, etc. Basically just bolt them in with a quick release for the Centaur only. Less chance of them falling off then, and if they're dead weight just drop them.
This seems likely to be the case, yes. The problem is probably equivalent to a human shooting a bow while running.
I just wrote about the firing between strides thing, myself only to scroll down and see you already did. You beat me this time, Arrek! THIS TIME!
+Hannes H
You neglect to take into account ll of the reasons why human mounted archers need to do that..
One of them is brain sync..
high skilled circus artists can run and juggle at the same time, Centaurs could train their gallop in a similar way..
In reality human part would likely hurt/break its spine while galoping.
+Gondor532 No because evolution would have made it possible for them to gallop.. it would have even llowed the males to brawls against each other and take massive hooves blows right in their human chest without having their spine broken because that would have been an evolutionary imperative..
Centaur with polearm + human with longsword/saber + shield (attachable to side of centaur's body for storage while still protecting) + bow
Offensive Human / long-range setting: shield stored at centaur's side, sword in human's scabbard, bow operated by both hands.
Defensive Human / short-range setting: bow put on back (or to centaur's side), longsword+shield in hands.
Universal Heavy Human-Centaur Infantry
(are you looking forward to their Heavy CAVALRY yet? :-D )
equipment: heavy armor, 1 human, 1 long bow, 1 short bow, 1 shield, 1 lance, 2 heavy slashing weapons
offensive ranged setting against slow opponents:
two bows
defensive ranged setting against fast opponents:
human with bow (and shield sidearm) facing backwards
offensive close range skirmish setting:
charging through the ranks primarily trying to get them off balance / facing the wrong way,
human in rapid fire mode to protect flanks and finish them off
offensive charge setting:
slashing weapons + human with lance
melee warfare setting:
human turret with short bow, hooves to pressure enemies, downward slashes to finish them off
Logically, centaur's can't have any infantry, unless they use auxilary troops from some other race... they are by definition cavalry.
TheGamesforreal that is a topic for endless amusing discussions where i decided to take a stance that "infantry" means "natural movement of the creature", and "cavalry" means "creature's movement externally augmented". being "basically horses" is their natural state same as for humans being bipeds is the natural state, therefore i argue they would call it "infantry" and their first "cavalry" unit would be a steam car or something like that, as tgey, of course, would too explore faster means of movement, but have one upgrade level of head-start, with them already beimg horses.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is such a thing as mounted infantry (horses for transportation only).
If you assume centaurs could rear up throughout the melee on principle in order to use their front hooves as weapons (strength & weight of a horse + sight of their target + additional pair of arms + lower body out of reach + possibility of otherwise impractical overhead strikes) you could make a weak case they can be infantry even on the "cavalry equals mobility" premise.
MidnightSt
By that definition, centaurs would refer to their unit as infantry, whereas humanoid riders would refer to their unit as cavalry. They would have to agree on a term (either of those or something else entirely) for ease of communication.
I ran a D&D campaign years ago where I had a group of centaurs each with a mounted rider. The centaurs and the riders both held lances and charged. With the damage bonus from mounted charge with lances it was brutal.
Magical Pommel Hooves Shad.
To Trample all foes rightly.
adidas horseshoes
Right when I was starting to fear you've run out of creatures. Keep 'em coming Shad!
Next he's going to be doing a review on Ogre battle games
Get it??? Cause Ogres are an obvious pick :D
why would we be using picks against ogres? :P lol
A centaur with a japanese longbow (the ones literally the height of a grown man) would be fucking terrifying.
The yumi. Try upscaling that for a centaur. You'd wonder if they could even pull the string.
can you imagine the amount of devestation it could do though?
but what about dragons
Natasel Now I'm not saying you're wrong, because yeah for sure they could have higher draw crossbows. But the problem of reloading requiring them to stop sort of negates their largest advantage of being able to run as fast as a horse. I'd stick with bows for mobility and repeated fire. Haven't finished the video, but apparently he thinks bows are a bad idea for the centaur to use, because of reasons? I hope he has reasons. They probably suck.
I’m rewatching this and I had a thought, what if the centaur couched the lance by their human hip/horse shoulder? Maybe then it could work like a gun, mounted in line with the rest of their body. Also I think this video could use a overhaul after all you didn’t dig in as much to their tactics and biology like you did with the Naga, especially if forced in close range or what can horse muscle do? Can they hold a bow for longer? Or fight for hours and hours on end?
How about this. A row of centaurs each holding/wearing a HUGE shield forming a moble battlement. Each centaur has a rider with both a bow and a polearm to use as needed. Having a defensive wall charging at you with arrows being fired from protected positions is bad enough, but then as it gets close, the polearms appear sticking out front. Once the charge has slammed into the defensive line, the centaur can let the shield rest on the ground and use spear through a small hole to double the number of weapons taking out the remaning defenders.
John Bennett awesome!
as the shield hits anything, the whole thing would just be pushed back right to their legs and make them trip over. I also thought of them charging with shields but leave Centaurs with that tactic. It would be much better if the human on the back would hold a shield to cover their retreat and eventually poke someone with a spear.
Centaurs would not use a full length shield because a horses legs must fold forward to charge so the shield would hamper their movement. A shield could only be held less than arms distance away from the torso. So this negates their charge shock. Horses also do not charge into a pike formation and a centaur would also not. There is simply too much risk of being skewered on pikes before they can inflict damages to the enemy. Resting the shield on the ground and poking a spear through a hole... You become. Static, you can only fight one wide so you lose your strength (mobility) and any numerical value as the guys in the second rank are effectively out of the fight..
lose of accuracy when using a bow on the run will not be much of an issue, You have to remember communication between "horse" and "human" is much better in a centaur. you can instantly stop and shot, before turning and getting away. If the enemy is too close for you to stop and shot, you don't need the extra accurate anymore
I came here to say exactly this.
or the centaur could change it's gait to a smoother ,but probably slower, run to increase accuracy while still moving. This would make it an easier target but with practice the switch in gait could be very quick allowing the centaur to switch to it when shooting and then gallop when finding a target..
While that's true I think that with horse and rider so closely connected things like Parthian shot and other elite tactics.
I guess canter might be more smooth than trot (at least in my experience with most horses I've sat on), so yes, faster can actually be the better option concerning the accuracy. But then, I guess it also depends on the kind of horse body you imagine for a centaur. What about the Tolt of Icelandic Horses, for instance? It can be very quick and is very balanced and smooth. Or the galopp of some breeds - I've read that Akhal Teke horses, for example, can galopp almost without any jolting (I'd wish to try and ride such a horse some day and experience that). I guess, the kind of horse the centaur's horse body is based on could play a huge role in this.
the centaur can also jump and aim in the air, as many horseback archers do
I was thinking that the centaur could have a stronger back and abdomen than a human, since they don't need as many internal organs in the human-like torso. So they would have a thicker spine and more back and abdominal muscles. This could allow them to better resist injury from a lance strike.
It would only make them better able, though would not prevent possible injury altogether.
Remember it's a LOT of physical force. Greater muscle mass and and a thicker spine would allow you to absorb it better, but it is not comparable to being able to roll with the impact.
I think, in the human chest area, there should be only the lungs and the means to pass food/water. However I think centaurs should be re-designed with science in mind. After that, we can think about what weapons they should use.
Also, if you figure out how much damage you can do with the spear, you may wanna use this formula: P=FA. What it is, is how to figure out pressure (Pressure=Force x Area). So if you run at 20 mph (31 kmph) you just need to figure out how much force from impact and how small is the point. When you know those two things, you can figure out if the spearhead will go all of the way through.