Single Player Studios NEED TO STOP Chasing The Live Service Trend
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League has been on the receiving end of plenty of criticism ever since its launch, and a lot of it is, sadly, well deserved.
But while there’s been plenty of conversation about the game’s own inherent flaws (of which it has plenty), the conversation that’s been the loudest of them all has been how a studio as talented and beloved as Rocksteady has ended up being wasted on yet another live service looter shooter that is, above all else, aspiring to be a source of constant revenue for its publisher, rather than an actual good game that its audience will enjoy.
Rocksteady is not the first single player studio that has fallen victim to that mindset, but will it be the last? Here, we attempt to answer that question. 
Игры
They won't learn because of greed. Let them keep failing, it's amusing watching them fail miserably.
It's always greed.
As long as they keep making the opposite of genshin keep making ugky characters it will they always make the female player character 40 y/o and pregnant looking in these flops
@@jasmith85well, gaming companies aren't charity. Their games will always be money first, and fun secondary.
Then they'd be upset when a game dev breaks the mold, caring more on artist's compensation rather than fun factor.
@@vergillives9890 agree. remove woke politics from games. people want to escape not being brainwashed
@@triadwarfare I understand that but never forget what brought you to the dance.
Every single time a good single-player game comes out there's an immediate cry for it to be ruined by multiplay. This is as much to blame as corporate greed.
I think there is a difference between a single-player game with some multiplayer feature like coop or a versus mode, and "single player" games that completely revolve around their multiplayer features with cash shops, battle passes, etc.
We can officially add rocksteady to the list of once great developers ruined by the live service genre like bioware with anthem, Crystal dynamics with Avengers, arkane austin with redfall and platinum games will babylons fall
To be fair, Redfall was pretty terrible for much more than it's live service elements. That game was just all around bad.
Seems to be a trend this decade. Greedy CEOs/Suits bleeding good studios dry.
Redfall didn't even have background music or actual animated cutscenes
@@trankia1224 i agree but the live service aspects were the main reason that game sucked
They all want the fortnite cod warzone and gta online money
Absolutely!! So tired of online only single player games. When they do this, I don't even consider buying the game regardless of what it is. The greed is just off the charts!
Avengers should've been more like Marvel ultimate alliance and less like Anthem
I disagree, I think the combat was pretty good in Avengers, they needed better traversal for the non-flyers, and they needed more diversity in enemies, and locations, especially the interior "dungeon" locations needed to just not be yellow and grey for once!
And NOT focus on DList Characters to get them over at the expense of Fanfavorites.
(Huh. Look at That. Didnt Work with DC Characters either.)
10 Bucks will get you Fifty That Somebody will try this again regardless.
Live service games always wastes of engineering by the time they got the game started remotely they could have been making 2 games with that budget and made 2x the sales
@@trankia1224 yeah I agree with the gameplay part but you have to admit the live service drip feeding the fans part ruined the game because of the lack of content to keep players interested
@@NadeemShekh-uy9zn yeah, but if you just play through the story, and quit there, it's not too bad. It could definitely have been a lot better, but I enjoyed the story mode.
Until people learn that money isn't what sells a game, or how much money you put into it, it's about how well you use that money to create a creative game that sells the game.
Then how come fortnite, apex legends, league of legends, valorant, genshin impact, honkai star rail, destiny, warframe, cod warzone, overwatch 2, ff14 online, world of warcraft, dead by daylight and no man's sky still standing
@@kevingame3198 Most of those games are free to play, you don't need to sell something that's free!? That must be the single most stupid argument I've seen in a long time.
@@kevingame3198 that sounds like a lot until you realize there are 500 studios trying to follow that same model ... the odds are against them being a success.
@@Dudecox That sounds a lot like streaming services like Netflix. Disney plus Amazon huluand what not much like games As a service , the streaming bubble burst
@jand1144 God of War Ragnarok made total $39 million dollars in revenue. Diablo Immortal (The phone game), made $500 million in 3 months. Are you sure story really sells to gamers anymore?
Rocksteady is so done, they can't even make a decent UI anymore.
Yep, they made the lazy looter AI, just copy pasta of the trend. Because why would they even bother making something thematic, minimalistic and immersive? That takes forethought, something they are deliberately avoiding.
People have been saying that since Marvel’s Avengers.
But the comment section kept making excuses for it.
People have been saying this since Anthem and fallout 76
@@NadeemShekh-uy9zn then why silent on Marvel’s Avengers?
Afraid of the boogeyman that is Disney?
@@AncestorEmpire1its an anomaly. every other live service took massive heat for their shot comings. avengers also didnt get a lot of publicity despite it being such a high profile game
Some studios won't be able to say no to this unless the stupid corporate suits who don't know shit about gaming from their publishers/owners allow them to.
Their process is just because diablo 4 lost billions doesn't mean we wont
The problem with live service games, is they try to make us play them "forever" but only a rare few people actually enjoy doing that, and they've already found their game for that by now. Most of us want to play a game beat it, and move on to the next one. The infinite gameplay loop has to be good enough to tear those rare few away from the game they've already been hooked on.
There's only 3 games I consistently go back and play and they're not even live service. The Last of us 1 and 2, and Oblivion. People play the games they enjoy playing.
@@balloonedraccoon2503 yeah but even those you probably only play like once a year or so, am I right? It's not like destiny or call of duty how people who are into those games literally never play anything else.
My thoughts on this: every single youtube channel focused on gaming needs to be saying what you're saying, GamingBolt. Bravo, Gamingbolt team! Bravo.
The biggest problem is that these companies don't realize that if there are a lot of these games on the market. There won't be enough players to play all of they. So the more there is, the less money they will make overall.
Hopefully it becomes too saturated for profit and they stop
@@balloonedraccoon2503 Then how come fortnite, apex legends, league of legends, valorant, genshin impact, honkai star rail, destiny, warframe, cod warzone, overwatch 2, ff14 online, world of warcraft, dead by daylight and no man's sky still standing
@@kevingame3198those are examples of the top games. for each one of those there is 2 of these mediocre games that nobody is playing. apples to oranges.
Almost every game he listed was also free to play, he just has a dumb take. @michelangelo5903
@@kevingame3198I mean, free games? (Most)
I hope EA gets Bankrupt over this one day.
Creating Brand new IP Live Service Games are FINE...Shoehorning IPs with previous history of having GREAT single player games or who's content doesn't fit into the live service mould? Well the sales speak for themselves
I mean, we need to make a new law legislation for this type of stuff.
@@eldeadkilljohnkennedy3946 They can't pass legislation for things of daily routines without a battle, why would they bother about games, ?
@arambhikrut7258 yeah it's essentially asking a deal with the devil
Hit the nail on the head.
9 years and a pristine reputation down the drain.
Over 7-10 hours of repetition and 5 fights that matter
@@vergillives9890 They were blinded by the long term and forgot to make a base game for it. It's like trying to sell you accessories for a phone that doesn't boot up.
I don't play live service games, so I've never understood the appeal. I just like simple solo campaigns that have the option to go online IF I wan. I don't like the idea of being forced to connect to a server. This is why I'm leaning towards the indie game market.
Yeah I played both Anthem and Avengers and whilst I liked Avengers's story with the reassemble campaign I did find the gam ea bit too grind yfo rm ytastes. I'm used t ogrinding a bi tas I play a lo tof RPG's but it became a bit too muc heven for me. I mainl ybought Anthem as I love their Mass Effect and Drago nAg egames so thought it might be worth a shot but again there were timesI didn't bother. Bu tgenerally yeah I don' t tend to play live servic egasmes as I prefer single player games. I often go back and play them multiple times but I prefer the low pressure approach to gaming on my own and immresing myself in the game worlds I inhabit rather than chasing live service stuff. In fac tI'm currentl yplaying the Mass Effect trilogy again while I wai tfor the PC version of Horizon Forbidden West to come out.
I dont play them mostly because I prefer the mindless dumbness of an NPC rather than a mindless stupidity of a human placed in the middle of an activity designed to escape reality and regular people by extention.
@@jonathanquesada5275 Yea hI mostl ygave Avengers a go as atleas tyou could pla ythat solo as the AI can cove rthe rest of your team. Yo uonl yneed t ocontrol the hero your levelling up in that game well tha tan dthe factI like the Marvel Universe more than DC. Thankfully Midnight Suns scratched the itch that Avengers didn't
Well that's your preference clearly and you don't like multiplayer games so that makes sense
Makes you wonder how will that Wonder Woman game turn out 🤔
I hope this is a lesson for rocksteady and every other gaming developer going forward. When you try to chase a dying trend you end up being buried next to the mistakes from the past. This video needs to be recorded and shown to every up-and-coming studio and classroom about what happens when greed gets in the way of creativity.
Might be a hard lesson; I wouldnt be surprised if rocksteady shuts down after this
@@DarMar106 rocksteady will recover it's just going to take some time. Hopefully they'll look at SSKTJL as a wake up call
I'm not convinced it's the studio that wants to do live service as much as it's the publishers.
The boss fights in suicide squad kill the justice league are so forgettable so anticlimactic and pathetic
What did you expect? Four Criminals with Guns shoot them dead.
Todd Mc Farlane kinda predicted this Shit in Spawn No. 9(i think?).
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with live service games. But there is something wrong with dull and repetitive live service games packed with predatory microtransactions. I still occasionally play Mass Effect multiplayer, that was and is awesome.
At some point Live service game Will be long gone and the video game industry will change.
it isn’t the studios fault that there forced to do a live service game, it’s the higher ups at there respective studios that forced them to do it, I’m sure most of these studios would rather be making single play games, but you don’t say no to your bosses.
But soon they will be a strike much like the writer strike of America, that they will turn against the corpos
greedy shareholders gets the final say.
Absolutely right. Live service has pretty much killed gaming for me. I like stories, with an actual ending. Thank god for games like Baldurs Gate 3, Elden Ring, and Cyberpunk 2077, because without them, I'd be done with my favorite pastime, and I might even have to go outside and meet people. Ew.
Dear WB, take a hint!
The ones that work are the ones that make compelling content that a single player would want to engage in.
The really goofy thing about all this, is these developers and publishers would have made so much more bank releasing a solid single player entry into their repertoire than whatever money they have made from these failed live service projects.
Bingo. Hate to say they could have pumped more Arkham games out but they could have. Just used that engine and what they learned could have made 3 Batman games and made decent money last 7 years. Instead its all wasted and they are gonna lose a fortune. Steam player counts were below 4,000 players.
There is a way to do live service right. Hell, the developers for Warframe have been doing it for over 10 years. The problem is these companies don't want to take their time and be creative with it.
It's always from these companies that went public. Obsessed with the most profit for the least effort.
I think that's something to keep in mind from now on. Whenever a public company gains an IP or a beloved company becomes or is now a part of a public company, part of the core values that made their games so good may be gone from now on
Battle passes in general are being phased out of alot of newer titles, this past year alone, more single player aaa games with high ratings have been released than in the past 7 years combined. I think that live service fad is slowly being phased out as people are just wise to the act now.
I am tired of live service nonsense that I want this horrible trend to go away at this point at least in my opinion.
I don't get why they went for the live service route, they saw how badly Avengers and Anthem did but still went ahead. They should have made a Batman Beyond game continuing on from the Arkham games and maybe added an online part after.
Square, Crystal dynamics, edios, bioware, EA, Arkane studios, Platinum games, Epic games among others suffered huge losses trying to make a live service. Now let's add Rocksteady
They should have stopped like 5 years ago, they still keep trying to make the same money that Fortnite did but don't realize that game was lightning in a bottle that released at the right time for people plus it was free and they were quick at fixing issues people had, these live service games releasing now drop at full price and the devs go radio silent for months before even bothering trying to fix the game and by then it's too little too late.
A more fitting name for this trainwreck of a game would have been "Rocksteady: Kill the Arkham Franchise"
CEOs better wise up. Rocksteady could have used Arkham engine & keep putting out those games with decent profits. Now they will go bankrupt chasing trends no one wanted.
The triple A gaming industry as a whole is really and truly incompetent. No other industry is as awful at never learning.
How many times does it need to go through this SAME issue and repeat the same mistakes?
Remember when MMOs were seen as the next big thing thanks to the juggernaut of WOW back in 2005? Every triple A company started working on an MMO of some sort all competing for the market.
What did they find? That there can only be ONE major game and people will invest time in that and not split it up.
Then after that everything tried to chase Call of Duty and the same happened AGAIN.
And now the same with live services.
Yet more demonstration that not only are these companies unfit for purpose but run by people absolutely incompetent and unworthy of their positions.
I will never buy a live service trend game as many other people. If they are happy to flop...
When publishers dictate what the developers make, this is what we get.
I don't blame the "developers" it's the executives - sharehoarders really at fault
Thank God Naughty Dog backed out of their LIve Service Game. WIth the backlash from TLOU2, the did NOT need to drop a sticky, money hungry live service game. They need to focus on their next game and make sure it's exactly what they want.
Even if suicide squad was just a single player story with 4 player coop for the story that would be enough but there is no main quest in gameplay for suicide squad. Name me one story mission that wasn’t a public event style .. wtf .
I think if a studio wants to invest their time and money on development of a GAAS then they should create a smaller dev team to develop that game and leave the main studio alone to do what they do best.
The studios only released what they are paid for and they have to adapt to the times to stay around. It's the publisher that we need to pick on and not the studios
Should probably talk to the publishers forcing devs to make games out of their wheelhouse….
I don't get it. People are saying that it's greed that caused these once great studios to fuck up, but.. these studious don't really will get money, if everyone hates their products. So why to do some live actions if everyone hates it? Are they stupid?
I think single player games that you pay full price for should not have any live service features in it. You wanna add dlc? Sure go for it. Purchasable cosmetics? Cool.
But these event, mission passes, etc...keep that in mobile games. I paid full price for a game not a mobile app.
You think it's their fault entirely? Look at WB, they're trying to make all their games live service even MK. It's the big guys at the top not the actual studios. They're also the reason why we get triple A games releasing way to early.
I totally agree, the live service multiple player aspects put me off buying it at all
If game studios that specialize in campaign based games really want their own live-service they should take the GTA approach where Rockstar created a campaign-based experience and built an online component around it.
So if you’re making an Avengers game, for example, make a self-contained single player experience. Then you can add an online component where players can create an customize their own mutant superhero characters or something within that world.
Is a 4 year map for the suicide squad , add 5 yr development if there was a new game after we are looking 10 years until we ‘maybe “ get another decent game from Rocksteady, so is just prudent to let them behind and wait for someone else to create something worth it .
DLC will be same gameplay different enemies and main DC bosses and that's it, #Rocksteady as we knew it, is gone.
Other than repeatedly blaming devs for publisher decisions, some good points here
Looking forward to some NEW Game's Black myth wukong, AC RED, West winds, GTA 6,
NEW Ghost Recon, Spaces Marine 2, And Couple Other's can't remember probably most wanted one's for me.
you can chase it just be prepared to spend a $ billion making sure the game is not boring
I still believe there will be a game that will tap into the real potential in GAAS.
But we are bound to leave a trail of mishaps to reach the goal.
nothings going to change guys. it’s been years! remember when loot crates were considered gambling and were taken out of games? i do! i feel like loot boxes should come back instead but be more like they were in BF4 and just given as rewards
The problem is less the studios and more the companies that own them. Even if the game is the studio's idea, the only reason that's what they go for is because their parent companies won't green light anything else.
Moral of the story: Don't turn single-player games into unfulfilling, soulless live service cash grabs
cough cough Skull and Bones... cough cough 70$ live service
I thought they would have learned years ago. But now even Sony is chasing the golden goose. Already we won’t see a game from Naughty Dog this gen as a result. This never works out for them.
Thank you for pointing out something I have been saying for sometime. Some studios have to stop this live service crap because some of them don't know how to do them. The online only is crap and can't understand why they continue to do this when it makes no sense especially on single player games. These games come out unfinished and with not allot of content for example Halo to add to insult they would rather improve the live service then the broken games themselves. You have games like MK1 and Sf6 that charge ridiculous prices on costumes and character skins to the point you have to pay for a fatality. I mean for crying out loud border lands is a great looter shooter that you can play offline with allot of content.
I don’t think the studios themselves chose to chase the GAAS trend, rather publishers demanding the studios chase that trend to their own peril.
We’re in the fast food era of gaming
I miss the older days of gaming
Where the biggest issue was the red ring of death
I have a question: live service games essentially replaced Loot boxes because after the world’s governments got involved after EA’s Battlefront 2. We know the video game industry is gonna keep chasing the dollar so what would replace live service games?
It's these publishers like WB that want and push for live service games. All they want is more profits and don't really care about the product quality anymore it seems.
Thanks for this!!!!!!!! We needed a whole video about this trend. Luckily Naughty Dog broke away from this trend. Even though they still wasted years of development.
One can only hope…
Studios are not doing it
Is the suits what demand money for the shareholders that make them do it
You are correct. The boundless greed of capitalists leading the way.
This should have been a Justice League game taking down villains.
Couldn't agree more!
This is why I love Playstation. Fantastic single player experiences with no live service.
Sucide squad kill the arkham verse did not fail because it was live service,but it simply failed cuz it was not a game arkham players were interested in.they should have simply make a batman multiplayer set in the arkham verse with free flow combat were the bat family takes over after the events of arkham night.
Any videogame that has or needs a "roadmap" is a pass for me. I cannot imagine a clearer red flag.
I honestly prefer a single player over a multi player game, I love nothing more than getting lost in an amazing story rather than getting sucked into an ongoing average game.
'Studios should not be discouraged in trying new things'...How about listening to the players/gamers on what they want and don't want in a game, and only putting what they want in the game.
Don’t forget about the worst thing about these live service games. Once the studios pull the plug on the servers the game will either be dead or catatonic; rendering all your digital purchases and the work of countless people worthless.
They all want that cod warzone and fortnite and gta online money
Thank you executives! Your money focus approach to an activity I am pretty sure you dont understand is killing gaming one live service game at a time! FU all!
I was really pissed when I discovered Like a Dragon Infinite wealth is an always online game.😢
They won’t learn from it. Publishers will just shut the studios down and focus on the next live service game to make money. Rinse and repeat. It’s the sad world of gaming now. And it’s people that keep buying battle passes and DLC so can you blame them.
How about just stop doing live service period, none of them launch out of the gate strong, most of them need about 2 years & multiple updates before they’re even considered serviceable
IMO, Monster Hunter has the right idea: make a game, support it with additional content for 1 year, sell an expansion, support that with additional content for another year, then move on to the next game.
I think it’s unfair to say there was nothing g redeeming about anthem, the gameplay was amamzing!!! Their flight system was one of the best out there, gunplay was good and abilities and combat was a blast!!! There just want an endgame to play and loot was just mid. Out of all the live service games that failed anthem by far had the most potential and it was sad to see anthem next die
Gamers want likeable characters, an engaging storyline that RESPECTS said characters, fun gameplay that doesn't treat you like a brainless invalid, and most of all... no political ideologies shoehorned into it while trying to nickel and dime us to death.
You mean publishers should stop forcing their successful singleplayer studios to make live service garbage.
At least Anthem and Marvel looked so promising at first. SS was being questioned for the beginning.
Maybe the games would function better and look better if the fans would stop pressuring the studios to release them faster. Also corporate people in charge. Need to stop doing that too like seriously let the artists create their art if it takes a long time, so be it because people will complain if a game doesn’t come out soon enough but then, when it gets rushed to release, they’ll complain that it doesn’t have all the features that they want.
Billion dollar companies do not care about fans on social media rushing them. If they did, then they would also listen when we say we don’t want live service games. If anything is rushed, executives & shareholders are to blame.
Also Rocksteady had plenty of time. It’s been 9 years since their previous game, yet all they did with that time is make a looter shooter nobody wanted with a 10 hr main story.
People have been complaining about forced Internet connection on single player games for years. The problems actually getting worse. What does that tell you about the game devs.
But it’s cheap to produce and a good ROI in spite mediocre sales. You’d be surprised how many gamers opt for microtransactions
No shit… All these games had POTENTIAL instead it was ruined by the push of live service.
Destiny mainstreamed Live service games to AAA market. That’s the sad part and companies have been chasing this trend since.
Call of Duty has managed to do this successfully = Selling skins. Everything is still there.. a Campaign, Multiplayer and whatever.
Meanwhile a Battlepass / Shop shoved in your face. Still playable.
people that run these companies which are parent companies to developers, they will never learn...why? because they are not gamers, they dont have the understanding for this business...that is the main problem, and ofc greedy little devs who are selling their studios at first fucking opportunity...15,20 years ago gamers were making games, today its a business that makes you a quick buck...
There are far too many live service games already and open world games. There aren't enough hours in the day to consume all this stuff.
Rest in P!$$ my deares "Life service Games"
I ONLY play single player games!
Everyone trying so desperately to create and be the Next Fortnite Its pathetic. We already GOT Fortnite.
Here is a Clue:The Next big Thing - Whatever Its gonna be - is NOT gonna be Fortnite.
Maybe Palworld will be. Maybe the Wrestling Code. (unlikely, Yeah. But still!) Maybe something different altogether. We don't know yet.
I never buy online games.
For Honor is a decent live service. Probably the only one that I like. I just want this genre of games to go away.
I don't like comparing the core game of Marvel's Avengers to Suicide Squad. Avenger's campaign was good and each of the characters played true to their comic book counterparts. They didn't give Thor and Iron Man machine guns and SMGs ... that game's failure was putting their resources into a bland live service model instead of more single player story content.