As an engineer I really enjoy your explanations….impressed by the huge task ahead…I love following this build…and I’am looking forward to the day she flies….it will end a long saga but will start a total new one…good luck my friend! Your are doing great!
I remain in awe of the work that you are doing. The detail that you have illustrated on the structure underlines the fact that this is a colossal undertaking. I have rarely seen a more organised and professional approach to an engineering challenge, if anyone can do it you can! My sincere thanks for what you are doing.
Very impressive Ian. You have done an outstanding job researching how Hawker manufactured and built these very complex structures to very tight tolerances. Amazing work and I applaud all your efforts. Well done! Great job on the CAD work showing how it all goes together. Sounds like you will have every aspect of how Hawker manufactured these complex structures down to a science and staying in keeping with Sydney Camm and his design team's philosophy. Keep up the great work!
Excellent documentary. Now we know where the differences are between the aircraft. What a beast of an aeroplane! The feeling in the cockpit must have been incredible with that engine so close to your feet.
Blimey what a beast you deserve a medal for your excellent work. Not that im familiar with aircraft methods but "Built like a brick outhouse " comes to mind !!. Very good video thank you.
Now you've made your own tube squaring machine-wow! Something tells me you may be getting a lot of calls☺️ You continue to impress the hell out of me! Keep up the good work👍
Take an out dated complicated structure from the Hurricane and make in worse. I am amazed at your dedication in reproducing this complicated structure.
I am in total admiration of your dedication to this extremely complex piece of engineering. I am currently designing a much simpler motor mount and getting nowhere.
Oh the fun of round to square - Hawker's style lol. I do remember seeing one of the Jenny's use covered in grime and dust lurking in the Press Shop at Kingston.
Well, I just finished crying. The CAD work is "art". Give those guys a raise. Definitely worth framing. I see you are quickly approaching the point where the tooling is worth more than the product. The squaring machine is, again, a work of art. I know that Guy Black had found one in a scrap yard (decades ago) and he thought it was 'gold'. One other question...are taper pins used in any of the end joints, and how are they secured? Cheers.
The project certainly could not be done without our amazing design team! Regarding taper pins in the structure, I've not seen a single application for this structure. That said, the wing pins themselves are taper pins! ~Ian
I'm always amazed at the sheer complexity of the internals. This was not a cheap, throwaway aircraft. It was built with real care to take a lot of punishment when needed. You needed serious skills to build a Typhoon as well as to fly one.
Near a million small parts to be assembled, and produced in large quantities in a short time.... The british worker has won the war also... Do you see the small flanges sleeve under the bolt head and nut at 4:45? Many parts! And please turn the castle-nut at 4:45. Very well done !!!
Where would we be without CAD? I spent a few years using PROE. The ability to assemble and check fit and tolerances, walkaround, and see how everything comes together is just off the scale. What I'm looking at here, is just staggering. Congratulations on all achievements.
It can be difficult to describe how impressive this work is to anyone who has not been involved with this type of design work; these are not just awesome pictures, but thousands of completed parts drawings assembled into a unit ready for production! Thank you Dave! ~Ian
Ian I am not a craftsman like you. I am a designer. I have made a few rough napkin sketches but it is actually proving to be quiet difficult. I agree it would be a cool bike. I would have to have a bike builder fabricate it. I am not sure how well Columbus or Renolds tubing would handle the squaring process. Each area of the frame would have to have a unique casting so this would not be a cheap undertaking. :)
Many years ago, when I was in the Air Training Corps, the Squadron Leader of the Wing my squadron was part of revealed that he actually flew the Typhoon when it first went into service. As with all new aircraft there were instructions from the test pilots of 'do's and don'ts' when flying. One 'don't' being not to use full throttle in anything more than a shallow dive as this may result in flutter of the control surfaces and overload the outer wing structure. Needless to say he ignored the notice 'just to see what happened', which was the first thing he asked when he woke up in hospital! It seems the test pilot's advice was correct as the aircraft lost both outer wing sections and ploughed into the ground at, luckily, a shallow angle. When rescuers reached the crash site the only recognisable parts of the craft was the engine and the attached well triangulated cockpit structure including the seat. After recovering from his injuries, he was court martialed, reduced in rank and given a desk to fly for the rest of the war!
Very interesting, I've never heard of any reports of wing failures on Typhoons, in fact, quite the opposite; often Typhoons would exceed 600mph in a dive with 2000lbs of bombs attached! It would be really interesting to find out a bit more about this situation, do you have any way to identify the aircraft serial by chance? ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Sorry but this was over 50 years ago and it never entered my head to ask those sort of details. All I can say is that his squadron was one of the first to fly the Typhoon after they were cleared for service. I can't even remember the pilots name now as it's been so long! (Old age, you know!)
Your tube squaring machine will likely pay for itself many times over as people need parts for Hawker airframes all over the world. Great explanation of what has to be accomplished to build a cockpit section structure.
Good luck with that spider's nest. Rather you than me. I'm sure you'll do a fantastic job and make it look easy. This is all just so fascinating. Keep up the good work and great free to all videos.
A fatal accident occurred in Australia some years ago now involving a home built gyrocopter because the person who built the machine did not fit distance tubes at a mast-head attachment point as specified in the plans. As a consequence of that oversight relevant bolts were over-torqued resulting in localized structural deformation of the mast tube followed by stress related failure causing separation of the rotor head in flight. Another factor of which many people are unaware is that aviation rated squared aluminum tube is swaged with an internal radius on all right angles thus imparting additional rigidity and strength.
I was going to say I'll donate a dollar for every time some one says - _''haven't you finished that yet?''_ then I watched your video ... my piggy bank is safe as Fort Knox!
Great graphics! It's astonshing how complex they managed to make this machine. Hawkers really didn't seem to appreciate the need for simplicity to enable getting to production status in the shortest time possible. Totally the opposite from the like of Willy Messerschmit and Kurt Tank whose aircraft were really designed to be rapidly mass produced. For instance, most of the panels on the outside of the FW190 are designed as 'flat wrap' i.e. they only curve one way, rather than compound curve, meaning flat sheets could be stamped out and riveted onto the jigged sub-structure, without the need to further stamp them in a die to the required compound curve.
I didn't know that about the 190, they sure did manage to create a beautiful aircraft with simple shapes! I've always been a fan of the rear fuselage for the 109 as well! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtdI'm a big 109 fan too, it's efficiency in terms of design for manufacture and maintenance is impressive compared to British designs of the time. It's a shame that sexy rear fuselage is so tough to replicate for a one-off replica, especially given how well it worked for mass production.
At quieter moments, when the pressures of life are momentarily in balance, do you ever imagine how great it would be if you were there, in-charge of the shop and with what you know, back then in the mid 1940s?
Are you going to make the CAD work public? If you were to publish some of these CAD drawings I could 3d print a perfect cockit structure for my 1/4 scale RC model Tempest V project.
Bruce has been looking at creating some files for 3D printing that could be used to help raise funds for the rebuild effort. It is likely that we would handle the printing and sales of the assemblies directly. ~Ian
I'm sure that the selling and spreading these 3d files in such quality in condition for 3d printing will help for this project for sure. Plastic kit or paper modelers waiting for :)
Another excellent video Ian. Are you able to address the original design deficiencies during your build? For example, can you address the vibration issues you mentioned from the engine mounts directly onto the forward main spar? I recall you addressed the tail plane joint assembly on a previous video. IIRC, you included all the later modifications in JP843 to overcome the known issues in the earlier designs. Resulting in an improved JP843.
Although quite quickly, I did mention the rubber isolation mounts used for the Sabre, the only other vibration modification to this structure was regarding the seat mounting; it will be best that I cover that when we are building and installing the seat. Napier had their own work to do with vibration on early engines, hopefully we will be able to create a series of videos covering Sabre development when we start into the Sabre. ~Ian
Thanks Ian. You are an inspiration. Thank you for you and your team’s dedication to performing what was previously an almost impossible feat. The complexity of the project is truly staggering!
Do you have any pictures of the raw unmachined forgings for the carry through? It is difficult to imagine what they looked like since presumably a bunch of stock was machined away. What a complicated assembly.
We do have some drawings which identify the forged profile for these fittings, all of which show what is essentially a very basic "mushroom forging to reduce material and machine time. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd If you cnc new ones from billet you won’t have the modified grain structure and associated strength you get from a forging. How will you ensure that you obtain the original design strength?
As you mention, it's not a simple substitution, there is a huge amount of work that goes into proving the original design requirements are being met before the work can start.~Ian
I’m probably getting ahead of myself here, but what do you plan on doing with all the specialized dies, jigs, fixtures, tools etc. that you have made and procured that are unique to the reconstruction of a Hawker Typhoon once you are finished?
Very interesting video but gosh how complicated all those tubes ro be assembled together behind very detailed computer generated 3D drawings! As you stated it has to be very precise down to very precise tolerance! Out of ignorance I have a question for you: you stated that there is a lot vibrations in that area because of the massive engine yet you use a lot of bolts and rivets. That said isn't there a danger that because of the vibrations those rivets and bolts gets unscrewed and pops out the rivets? Why not welding all this assembly?
The tight tolerances used in the assembly prevent joint movement that would lead to quick wear under vibration, and the use of mechanical locking (typically peening of bolts) prevents the fasteners from working loose. The design of this structure made it very strong and easy to maintain in the field.
Is this going to just be a static exhibition or is it going to be renovated in to a fully flying condition? If the latter, then how are you going to deal with the weakness in the tail end section? Will you renovate it to exactness or will you make a change so that it has no weakness at all?
JP843 will be airworthy, all efforts are being made to ensure this is done as safely as possible. There is information on the Typhoon's tail issues in earlier episodes, this was an issue that was successfully addressed through modifications during the war. JP843 will be fully updated with all modifications that relate to safety. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtdhank you for your reply, it's nice to know that it will be airworthy, so thanks for restoring this beautiful beast, not enough survived imho even as static displays. As for the modifications, I understand that they corrected the tail issues, but for all Typhoons this just amounted to being the equivalent of stapling a wound up like when you have an operation. The full modified design that corrected the tail issue was a part of the full re-design which became the Typhoon II which obviously ended up becoming the Tempest. So I guess what I was asking was, will you be using the redesigned tail section from the Tempest to address the Typhoons structural fragility or will you be keeping it as original to the Typhoon by keeping the tail in place by using Mod 286 with fishplates on the transport joint? Thanks again for saving this bird, it's a shame that nobody ever thought to save a Tornado, that would have been interesting to see. Joanna.
When you swage the round tube into square section, do you need an inner square jig to prevent the square sides going concave? I notice on the factory photo there was no temporary inner suppose in place, but that could be just for the photo. Stay safe! Chris B.
I understand what you are saying. But how would that work? you cant shove a square mandrel into the round hole until the tube is close to square. maybe they used a tapered square mandrel after square roll operation to clean up the finished square. Or maybe being shaped at the 45 degree prevents the concaving of the flats. I really look foreword to seeing Ian start this process.
There is no internal die, the operation is only between upper and lower external dies. Hawker has calculated the squared size based on the round tube diameter; there is no extra material left to cause it to become concave on the flats, all material is moved to it's final shape. ~Ian
@@ew4395 If the square for is partially formed before the inner mandrel is inserted there would be sufficient clearance to insert the inner, my thoughts are that without an inner mandrel to keep the tube wall straight it will form a concave face to the square section, this can be observed if you squeeze a round tube in the vice, or press, the flat "pings" into a concave face, try it, it will be interesting how this turns out in practice!
Your doing a fantastic job and it’s great to see a old warplane coming back to life, But the volume is terrible, can’t understand half of what is said.
Hi, wonderful series by the way. Just curious, as we in Australia and Britain sharre the same language, which differs from American English. Is not a frame fixture device called a "JIG?" The asembly itself is so complex and clever though, i am impressed.
Hi Steven, very good question, in this case it is not (to my knowledge anyway) a difference in language. A jig is a tool designed for guiding a work piece or cutting tool during a machining process, while a fixture holds/locates the work piece securely for assembly or work to be performed. ~Ian
Hello Ian, thoroughly enjoying the restoration and the way you present it. Could you say what CAD system you use? I have spent much of my working life on Unigraphics NX and can see some similarities with what you use. Find this all fascinating.
Thank you! We have several different programs in use between designers, each with their benefits. AutoCad, Autodesk Inventor, Fusion 360 and Solidworks. ~Ian
Lighter but not stronger. Camm was obsessed with an ideal weight/strength element in all his designs. After the Hornbill didn't live up to expectations he and Fred Sigrist developed the system in 1925 that Camm would continue to develop in every Hawker aircraft until the second Fury/Sea Fury. The Sigrist/Camm system was a work of genius and also allowed for the Hurricane/Typhoon/Tempest to be basically modular aircraft, easier to maintain and repair. There are cases where Servicing Commandos and MUs would just bolt off the back half of the aircraft, pop a new monocoque on and re-rig. Easier than a battlefield repair to the monocoque structure. The other important thing to remember is that this form of construction was also cheaper, which made TOM Sopwith happier. We all know the benefits of a happy boss!
While the Fury / Sea Fury was the next stage in Hawker fighter development after the Tempest (which was developed from the Typhoon), the new fighters had very little in common with the Typhoon. There was some carry-over in the wings of the Tempest to Fury, and some small parts (canopy included) from the Typhoon through all types. ~Ian
It can be very complicated and is entirely dependent on the original design requirements. Grain flow with forgings can be critical in part strength; decisions are made on a case by case basis with very (very) careful study. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd So it's down to the Canadian aviation authorities, or do you have to put forward a case? Guess you can make the parts thicker if need be? Forging new parts would be prohibitively expensive, or?
Transport Canada is our regulatory authority, it's up to us to prove the repair parts are equivalent or better than original. The final parts will typically be machined for JP843, and made to original dimensional information / surviving parts. Substantial work has gone into research on the original design strength etc. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd thanks for the reply. I'm really looking forward to seeing it come together. This tubular structure is so different to any aircraft restoration I've seen.
That would be ideal, however covering the costs of multiple aircraft would make completing one even more difficult without financial backers to cover materials etc. ~Ian
Also, unskilled labour could jig them up, drill holes and assemble them. Remember in total war, you need to recruit manufacturing labour from wherever you can.
Is it just me, or is this structure over-complicated? It looks very rigid (i.e. the vibration issues?), but it also seems like no two components are the same! I realize that TIG welding was invented around this same time this airplane was first built, so it wouldn't be an option...but my gut says they could have simplified the structure quite a bit.
The design concept was carried over from the structure of the Hurricane and its predecessors. The Typhoon and Tempest were the last of the line for the Hawker steel tube structure. ~Ian
My thought too. I had the good fortune and privilege of a visit to the Hawker Restorations workshop when the first Hurricane was being restored. It was the key to the Hurricanes stability though.
Hi, Ian. Sorry for my ignorance, but I spoke to u last time about why u do different things every video instead of focusing on one thing and finishing it. U replied that " it's not the order of work for a project like this" could u explain that please?
Hi David. certainly! I tend to jump all over throughout various aspects of the project; ultimately this is due to a lack of fully developed data for the Typhoon. Typically, for every part and assembly, there is hours, days, weeks or years of research that goes into the development and confirmation of the information. This can be from drawings, surviving parts, original material specifications, design information or maintenance data. To keep the project moving forwards with regular production, this means that I need to keep the designers busy on their respective area of work. To keep the design team moving, I need to be able to dissect and analyze structure to confirm data; for some of these investigations, I will create a video on my work which will be long before the parts are physically repaired etc. This work can take me away from some of the production side of the project, but is often welcome! There are several large assemblies now which are nearing design completion, this has allowed the start of production when geometry is confirmed. While the production is started, it doesn't necessarily mean the research is complete, just near to it; if there is a question on a small part or assembly that we need to resolve, work may stop on that assembly until we can solve the question... but I can move onto another assembly. Lots of bouncing around basically keeps the momentum going, although it may seem a bit odd when watching. Adding the Merlin project to this can really mess with shop priorities too! I hope this helps. ~Ian
I love the information-dense, knoledgeable, clear presentation on this fascinating subject. But from a video production standpoint, the use of the fade out/fade in transition on EVERY cut is not only inefficient, the repetitive sameness quickly gets tiresome. The total time spent during these transitions is a not inconsiderable fraction of the whole. In so many instances a simple jump cut would be eminently suitable, and preferred. And for others, a dissolve would be better. Indeed, if just one transition is to be used, the fade is perhaps the worst choice from among the stable of the 'classic' set. It really is wasteful of precious time where information is provided at the kind of rapid clip we have here. Even slow-paced documentaries use the simple jump cut above all others. There're good reasons for such basic simplicity.
As an engineer I really enjoy your explanations….impressed by the huge task ahead…I love following this build…and I’am looking forward to the day she flies….it will end a long saga but will start a total new one…good luck my friend! Your are doing great!
I remain in awe of the work that you are doing. The detail that you have illustrated on the structure underlines the fact that this is a colossal undertaking. I have rarely seen a more organised and professional approach to an engineering challenge, if anyone can do it you can! My sincere thanks for what you are doing.
Thank you very much James!~Ian
The CAD work is impressive, but absolute respect to the original designers who drew this up on paper.
Certainly, the skill of those who designed these was immense! ~Ian
Very impressive Ian. You have done an outstanding job researching how Hawker manufactured and built these very complex structures to very tight tolerances. Amazing work and I applaud all your efforts. Well done! Great job on the CAD work showing how it all goes together. Sounds like you will have every aspect of how Hawker manufactured these complex structures down to a science and staying in keeping with Sydney Camm and his design team's philosophy. Keep up the great work!
Excellent documentary. Now we know where the differences are between the aircraft. What a beast of an aeroplane! The feeling in the cockpit must have been incredible with that engine so close to your feet.
Excellent explanation of the structure, great use of graphics.
Thank you Nigel! ~Ian
Blimey what a beast you deserve a medal for your excellent work. Not that im familiar with aircraft methods but "Built like a brick outhouse " comes to mind !!. Very good video thank you.
Seeing the cockpit section as a whole, it looks like an extremely strong design.
It certainly is strong! ~Ian
The complexity of the Typhoon is next level. Your attention to detail and efforts to maintain authenticity are amazing.
Thank you! ~Ian
The power of 3D design is amazing. A great video, explained very well.
Thank you Mike! ~Ian
Now you've made your own tube squaring machine-wow! Something tells me you may be getting a lot of calls☺️ You continue to impress the hell out of me! Keep up the good work👍
Ian, there are insufficient superlatives in our language to describe all of this effort.
More power to you! 👍
Must admit, progress of design is first rate and impressive. Keep up the excellent work Ian and of course your team.
Take an out dated complicated structure from the Hurricane and make in worse.
I am amazed at your dedication in reproducing this complicated structure.
The structure is very impressive in its design but it sure couldn't keep up with other advancements and production techniques. ~Ian
I'm so impressed with your knowledge and approach to this incredibly complex project. Love the videos.
Thank you David ~Ian
I built a balsa and tissue Typhoon model as a boy and thought it difficult, I had no idea. What a complex thing to reproduce full scale.
Superbe développement en 3 D de la structure
De l habitacles et comparaisons avec le tempest bravo très explicite vivement la suite
I am in total admiration of your dedication to this extremely complex piece of engineering. I am currently designing a much simpler motor mount and getting nowhere.
These projects all just take time my friend! ~Ian
Oh the fun of round to square - Hawker's style lol. I do remember seeing one of the Jenny's use covered in grime and dust lurking in the Press Shop at Kingston.
How far back was this James? ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd 1990, so I was 17 at the time (Richmond Road site) Blushes I've got 3 pairs of tinsnips, that are from the early 1920's.
Thanks!
Amazing, thank you so very much Tony! ~Ian
A very nicely explanation of an extremely complicated structure with the added bonus of excellent graphics. Nicely done Ian, thank you.
Thank you!~Ian
Well, I just finished crying. The CAD work is "art". Give those guys a raise. Definitely worth framing. I see you are quickly approaching the point where the tooling is worth more than the product. The squaring machine is, again, a work of art. I know that Guy Black had found one in a scrap yard (decades ago) and he thought it was 'gold'. One other question...are taper pins used in any of the end joints, and how are they secured? Cheers.
The project certainly could not be done without our amazing design team! Regarding taper pins in the structure, I've not seen a single application for this structure. That said, the wing pins themselves are taper pins! ~Ian
I'm always amazed at the sheer complexity of the internals. This was not a cheap, throwaway aircraft. It was built with real care to take a lot of punishment when needed. You needed serious skills to build a Typhoon as well as to fly one.
Near a million small parts to be assembled, and produced in large quantities in a short time.... The british worker has won the war also...
Do you see the small flanges sleeve under the bolt head and nut at 4:45? Many parts! And please turn the castle-nut at 4:45.
Very well done !!!
Where would we be without CAD? I spent a few years using PROE. The ability to assemble and check fit and tolerances, walkaround, and see how everything comes together is just off the scale. What I'm looking at here, is just staggering. Congratulations on all achievements.
It can be difficult to describe how impressive this work is to anyone who has not been involved with this type of design work; these are not just awesome pictures, but thousands of completed parts drawings assembled into a unit ready for production! Thank you Dave! ~Ian
Thank you for another fantastic construction video!
Great to see the progress slowly but surely, i like the design of your tube squaring machine
Cheers Ian enjoyed the video 👍
Thank you Terry! ~Ian
Great graphics and your voice is addictive 👍
Great update! Thank you.Can't wait for your next.
Thank you John! ~Ian
Great video! Makes me want to try this construction technique to build a bicycle. Looks like you are progressing nicely.
That would be one awesome bike! If you do this, please share progress images. ~Ian
Ian I am not a craftsman like you. I am a designer. I have made a few rough napkin sketches but it is actually proving to be quiet difficult. I agree it would be a cool bike. I would have to have a bike builder fabricate it. I am not sure how well Columbus or Renolds tubing would handle the squaring process. Each area of the frame would have to have a unique casting so this would not be a cheap undertaking. :)
Very interesting. Digging the in depth technical description. Subscribed
Thank you Greg! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd yessir. If I was rich I know where all my money would go. Projects on old warbird restoration. 😝
As always a very detailed explanation of the next procedure . I'm seriously worried that you seem to be on your own lan . Very enjoyable . Thankyou .
Thanks John, no need to worry though, we have an amazing team here that makes my end of the work possible. ~Ian
Enjoyable and informative video (again) all the best!
Great and detailed; Thanks a lot
Many years ago, when I was in the Air Training Corps, the Squadron Leader of the Wing my squadron was part of revealed that he actually flew the Typhoon when it first went into service. As with all new aircraft there were instructions from the test pilots of 'do's and don'ts' when flying. One 'don't' being not to use full throttle in anything more than a shallow dive as this may result in flutter of the control surfaces and overload the outer wing structure. Needless to say he ignored the notice 'just to see what happened', which was the first thing he asked when he woke up in hospital! It seems the test pilot's advice was correct as the aircraft lost both outer wing sections and ploughed into the ground at, luckily, a shallow angle. When rescuers reached the crash site the only recognisable parts of the craft was the engine and the attached well triangulated cockpit structure including the seat. After recovering from his injuries, he was court martialed, reduced in rank and given a desk to fly for the rest of the war!
Very interesting, I've never heard of any reports of wing failures on Typhoons, in fact, quite the opposite; often Typhoons would exceed 600mph in a dive with 2000lbs of bombs attached! It would be really interesting to find out a bit more about this situation, do you have any way to identify the aircraft serial by chance? ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Sorry but this was over 50 years ago and it never entered my head to ask those sort of details. All I can say is that his squadron was one of the first to fly the Typhoon after they were cleared for service. I can't even remember the pilots name now as it's been so long! (Old age, you know!)
Your tube squaring machine will likely pay for itself many times over as people need parts for Hawker airframes all over the world. Great explanation of what has to be accomplished to build a cockpit section structure.
Thank you Paul! ~Ian
Excellent video as ever. Keep up the good work
Fantastic stuff Ian! Fascinating!
Thanks Buddy! ~Ian
Fascinating !.
Awesome update👍
Good luck with that spider's nest. Rather you than me. I'm sure you'll do a fantastic job and make it look easy. This is all just so fascinating. Keep up the good work and great free to all videos.
Thank you Phil, it's a long road for sure, but we're getting there! ~Ian
Amazing amazing amazing.
A fatal accident occurred in Australia some years ago now involving a home built gyrocopter because the person who built the machine did not fit distance tubes at a mast-head attachment point as specified in the plans.
As a consequence of that oversight relevant bolts were over-torqued resulting in localized structural deformation of the mast tube followed by stress related failure causing separation of the rotor head in flight.
Another factor of which many people are unaware is that aviation rated squared aluminum tube is swaged with an internal radius on all right angles thus imparting additional rigidity and strength.
The smallest of details are often the most critical, details that tend not to get taught to those who home build aircraft. ~Ian
Best episode yet. Great narration skills.
I was going to say I'll donate a dollar for every time some one says -
_''haven't you finished that yet?''_
then I watched your video ... my piggy bank is safe as Fort Knox!
Great graphics! It's astonshing how complex they managed to make this machine. Hawkers really didn't seem to appreciate the need for simplicity to enable getting to production status in the shortest time possible. Totally the opposite from the like of Willy Messerschmit and Kurt Tank whose aircraft were really designed to be rapidly mass produced. For instance, most of the panels on the outside of the FW190 are designed as 'flat wrap' i.e. they only curve one way, rather than compound curve, meaning flat sheets could be stamped out and riveted onto the jigged sub-structure, without the need to further stamp them in a die to the required compound curve.
I didn't know that about the 190, they sure did manage to create a beautiful aircraft with simple shapes! I've always been a fan of the rear fuselage for the 109 as well! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtdI'm a big 109 fan too, it's efficiency in terms of design for manufacture and maintenance is impressive compared to British designs of the time. It's a shame that sexy rear fuselage is so tough to replicate for a one-off replica, especially given how well it worked for mass production.
At quieter moments, when the pressures of life are momentarily in balance, do you ever imagine how great it would be if you were there, in-charge of the shop and with what you know, back then in the mid 1940s?
I think if that were possible I would much prefer to walk quietly through these facilities watching, listening and learning!! ~Ian
Are you going to make the CAD work public? If you were to publish some of these CAD drawings I could 3d print a perfect cockit structure for my 1/4 scale RC model Tempest V project.
Bruce has been looking at creating some files for 3D printing that could be used to help raise funds for the rebuild effort. It is likely that we would handle the printing and sales of the assemblies directly. ~Ian
I'm sure that the selling and spreading these 3d files in such quality in condition for 3d printing will help for this project for sure. Plastic kit or paper modelers waiting for :)
Another excellent video Ian.
Are you able to address the original design deficiencies during your build? For example, can you address the vibration issues you mentioned from the engine mounts directly onto the forward main spar? I recall you addressed the tail plane joint assembly on a previous video. IIRC, you included all the later modifications in JP843 to overcome the known issues in the earlier designs. Resulting in an improved JP843.
Although quite quickly, I did mention the rubber isolation mounts used for the Sabre, the only other vibration modification to this structure was regarding the seat mounting; it will be best that I cover that when we are building and installing the seat. Napier had their own work to do with vibration on early engines, hopefully we will be able to create a series of videos covering Sabre development when we start into the Sabre. ~Ian
Thanks Ian. You are an inspiration. Thank you for you and your team’s dedication to performing what was previously an almost impossible feat. The complexity of the project is truly staggering!
Do I have this right?: A tubular frame structure is more rigid but heavier than a semi-monocoque design.
Correct, also easier to access and repair when not welded. ~Ian
An Incredibly complex design , the benefits of CAD need no explanation, I expect that CNC machines play a large part in the production process?
CNC will be an asset for hardware and plug ends for sure! ~Ian
The horse.
Do you have any pictures of the raw unmachined forgings for the carry through? It is difficult to imagine what they looked like since presumably a bunch of stock was machined away. What a complicated assembly.
We do have some drawings which identify the forged profile for these fittings, all of which show what is essentially a very basic "mushroom forging to reduce material and machine time. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd If you cnc new ones from billet you won’t have the modified grain structure and associated strength you get from a forging. How will you ensure that you obtain the original design strength?
As you mention, it's not a simple substitution, there is a huge amount of work that goes into proving the original design requirements are being met before the work can start.~Ian
I’m probably getting ahead of myself here, but what do you plan on doing with all the specialized dies, jigs, fixtures, tools etc. that you have made and procured that are unique to the reconstruction of a Hawker Typhoon once you are finished?
Perhaps someone else will want a Typhoon rebuilt as well, and then we could either use them to do the work or sell the tooling. Time will tell. ~Ian
Very interesting video but gosh how complicated all those tubes ro be assembled together behind very detailed computer generated 3D drawings! As you stated it has to be very precise down to very precise tolerance! Out of ignorance I have a question for you: you stated that there is a lot vibrations in that area because of the massive engine yet you use a lot of bolts and rivets. That said isn't there a danger that because of the vibrations those rivets and bolts gets unscrewed and pops out the rivets? Why not welding all this assembly?
The tight tolerances used in the assembly prevent joint movement that would lead to quick wear under vibration, and the use of mechanical locking (typically peening of bolts) prevents the fasteners from working loose. The design of this structure made it very strong and easy to maintain in the field.
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd thanks for replying and again I find it very informative 👍👍
And I thought Ship Happens was a labour Sisyphus would have quailed at!
Is this going to just be a static exhibition or is it going to be renovated in to a fully flying condition? If the latter, then how are you going to deal with the weakness in the tail end section? Will you renovate it to exactness or will you make a change so that it has no weakness at all?
JP843 will be airworthy, all efforts are being made to ensure this is done as safely as possible. There is information on the Typhoon's tail issues in earlier episodes, this was an issue that was successfully addressed through modifications during the war. JP843 will be fully updated with all modifications that relate to safety. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtdhank you for your reply, it's nice to know that it will be airworthy, so thanks for restoring this beautiful beast, not enough survived imho even as static displays.
As for the modifications, I understand that they corrected the tail issues, but for all Typhoons this just amounted to being the equivalent of stapling a wound up like when you have an operation.
The full modified design that corrected the tail issue was a part of the full re-design which became the Typhoon II which obviously ended up becoming the Tempest.
So I guess what I was asking was, will you be using the redesigned tail section from the Tempest to address the Typhoons structural fragility or will you be keeping it as original to the Typhoon by keeping the tail in place by using Mod 286 with fishplates on the transport joint?
Thanks again for saving this bird, it's a shame that nobody ever thought to save a Tornado, that would have been interesting to see. Joanna.
When you swage the round tube into square section, do you need an inner square jig to prevent the square sides going concave? I notice on the factory photo there was no temporary inner suppose in place, but that could be just for the photo. Stay safe! Chris B.
I understand what you are saying. But how would that work? you cant shove a square mandrel into the round hole until the tube is close to square. maybe they used a tapered square mandrel after square roll operation to clean up the finished square. Or maybe being shaped at the 45 degree prevents the concaving of the flats. I really look foreword to seeing Ian start this process.
There is no internal die, the operation is only between upper and lower external dies. Hawker has calculated the squared size based on the round tube diameter; there is no extra material left to cause it to become concave on the flats, all material is moved to it's final shape. ~Ian
@@ew4395 If the square for is partially formed before the inner mandrel is inserted there would be sufficient clearance to insert the inner, my thoughts are that without an inner mandrel to keep the tube wall straight it will form a concave face to the square section, this can be observed if you squeeze a round tube in the vice, or press, the flat "pings" into a concave face, try it, it will be interesting how this turns out in practice!
Your doing a fantastic job and it’s great to see a old warplane coming back to life, But the volume is terrible, can’t understand half of what is said.
Thank you Richard, I'll look into this. Question to the general audience: Are other viewers having the same problem?
Really informative. In fact: I would say your explanation of the different fasteners was... RIVETING (sorry!)
Oh my LOL, remind me to grab your coat for you at the next Hawkwind based event won't you lol.
Hi, wonderful series by the way. Just curious, as we in Australia and Britain sharre the same language, which differs from American English. Is not a frame fixture device called a "JIG?" The asembly itself is so complex and clever though, i am impressed.
Hi Steven, very good question, in this case it is not (to my knowledge anyway) a difference in language. A jig is a tool designed for guiding a work piece or cutting tool during a machining process, while a fixture holds/locates the work piece securely for assembly or work to be performed. ~Ian
Hello Ian, thoroughly enjoying the restoration and the way you present it. Could you say what CAD system you use? I have spent much of my working life on Unigraphics NX and can see some similarities with what you use. Find this all fascinating.
Thank you! We have several different programs in use between designers, each with their benefits. AutoCad, Autodesk Inventor, Fusion 360 and Solidworks. ~Ian
GOD SPEED!
Why not weld?
Would not welding be lighter?
R
Lighter but not stronger. Camm was obsessed with an ideal weight/strength element in all his designs. After the Hornbill didn't live up to expectations he and Fred Sigrist developed the system in 1925 that Camm would continue to develop in every Hawker aircraft until the second Fury/Sea Fury. The Sigrist/Camm system was a work of genius and also allowed for the Hurricane/Typhoon/Tempest to be basically modular aircraft, easier to maintain and repair. There are cases where Servicing Commandos and MUs would just bolt off the back half of the aircraft, pop a new monocoque on and re-rig. Easier than a battlefield repair to the monocoque structure. The other important thing to remember is that this form of construction was also cheaper, which made TOM Sopwith happier. We all know the benefits of a happy boss!
I cannot provide an answer better than the one from Matthew! ~Ian
How far does the Sea Fury differ from the Hawker Typhoon?
While the Fury / Sea Fury was the next stage in Hawker fighter development after the Tempest (which was developed from the Typhoon), the new fighters had very little in common with the Typhoon. There was some carry-over in the wings of the Tempest to Fury, and some small parts (canopy included) from the Typhoon through all types. ~Ian
What are the parts hanging on the wall and which aircraft they're from (if you remember)
These are elevators, side cowl panel and the upper engine panel from the Typhoon. No specific allocation but all original. ~Ian
do you have a plan for when you run out of space , like for example the wings need to be attached
The building was designed to house a completely assembled Typhoon, however, once complete, the final assembly will be done at an airport. ~Ian
What CAD software are you using, please?
A few different platforms, AutoCad, Autodesk Inventor, Fusion 360 and Solidworks between designers. ~Ian
It must have felt like flying a load of scaffold
No problems replacing original forged parts with billet items?
It can be very complicated and is entirely dependent on the original design requirements. Grain flow with forgings can be critical in part strength; decisions are made on a case by case basis with very (very) careful study. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd Makes you realise how difficult this must have been with food rationing and bombs dropping on your head! 😟
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd So it's down to the Canadian aviation authorities, or do you have to put forward a case? Guess you can make the parts thicker if need be? Forging new parts would be prohibitively expensive, or?
Transport Canada is our regulatory authority, it's up to us to prove the repair parts are equivalent or better than original. The final parts will typically be machined for JP843, and made to original dimensional information / surviving parts. Substantial work has gone into research on the original design strength etc. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd thanks for the reply. I'm really looking forward to seeing it come together. This tubular structure is so different to any aircraft restoration I've seen.
Man, if I was going to build one I'd go ahead and build a dozen to sell to cover all this tooling.
That would be ideal, however covering the costs of multiple aircraft would make completing one even more difficult without financial backers to cover materials etc. ~Ian
Why didn't Hawker just weld all these steel tubes together?
Strength and repairability were better with this system. ~Ian
Also, unskilled labour could jig them up, drill holes and assemble them. Remember in total war, you need to recruit manufacturing labour from wherever you can.
Is it just me, or is this structure over-complicated? It looks very rigid (i.e. the vibration issues?), but it also seems like no two components are the same! I realize that TIG welding was invented around this same time this airplane was first built, so it wouldn't be an option...but my gut says they could have simplified the structure quite a bit.
Welding would have been an option, but not one that was of interest to Hawkers. ~Ian
why is this rendered in 480????
I'm going to ave to figure that out too! ~Ian
Looks a lot like a Hurricane center section.
The design concept was carried over from the structure of the Hurricane and its predecessors. The Typhoon and Tempest were the last of the line for the Hawker steel tube structure. ~Ian
My thought too. I had the good fortune and privilege of a visit to the Hawker Restorations workshop when the first Hurricane was being restored. It was the key to the Hurricanes stability though.
@@andrewplumb6544 Sydney Camm was a genius.
Hi, Ian. Sorry for my ignorance, but I spoke to u last time about why u do different things every video instead of focusing on one thing and finishing it. U replied that " it's not the order of work for a project like this" could u explain that please?
Hi David. certainly! I tend to jump all over throughout various aspects of the project; ultimately this is due to a lack of fully developed data for the Typhoon. Typically, for every part and assembly, there is hours, days, weeks or years of research that goes into the development and confirmation of the information. This can be from drawings, surviving parts, original material specifications, design information or maintenance data. To keep the project moving forwards with regular production, this means that I need to keep the designers busy on their respective area of work. To keep the design team moving, I need to be able to dissect and analyze structure to confirm data; for some of these investigations, I will create a video on my work which will be long before the parts are physically repaired etc. This work can take me away from some of the production side of the project, but is often welcome! There are several large assemblies now which are nearing design completion, this has allowed the start of production when geometry is confirmed. While the production is started, it doesn't necessarily mean the research is complete, just near to it; if there is a question on a small part or assembly that we need to resolve, work may stop on that assembly until we can solve the question... but I can move onto another assembly. Lots of bouncing around basically keeps the momentum going, although it may seem a bit odd when watching. Adding the Merlin project to this can really mess with shop priorities too! I hope this helps. ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd
Thanks very much for that very detailed answer! I'm full of admiration for your skills and drive!
I hope it helped, I tend to ramble! ~Ian
@@TyphoonLegacyCoLtd
Definitely! And rambling is expected from someone who is both passionate and knowledgeable about something!
I love the information-dense, knoledgeable, clear presentation on this fascinating subject.
But from a video production standpoint, the use of the fade out/fade in transition on EVERY cut is not only inefficient, the repetitive sameness quickly gets tiresome.
The total time spent during these transitions is a not inconsiderable fraction of the whole. In so many instances a simple jump cut would be eminently suitable, and preferred. And for others, a dissolve would be better. Indeed, if just one transition is to be used, the fade is perhaps the worst choice from among the stable of the 'classic' set. It really is wasteful of precious time where information is provided at the kind of rapid clip we have here. Even slow-paced documentaries use the simple jump cut above all others. There're good reasons for such basic simplicity.
Thank you for the feedback. ~Ian