Technological progress in our real world was extremely slow until the steam engine was invented, really. Once the industrial revolution was in full affect and you had mechanical forms of farming, you didn't need 90% of the entire worlds workforce to be dedicated to farming, which meant many more went on to study, which in turn meant there were many more people available to push society's technological progress. So basically we're waiting on the dragon version of James Watt to be born. My personal head cannon is that the OG nightwings from the Darkstalker era where extremely close to the industrial revolution: their society seemed far ahead of the other tribes at that point (atleast from what we can read) and when the whole Darkstalker thing happened and the nightwings fled, most progress both societal and industrial was lost. And it's kind of been a technological dark age since that point.
The ancient nightwings actually have a parallel in the real world being the collapse of the Roman empire and the many advancements that were lost when they fell, the library they had likely was the pyrrhian equivalent to the library of Alexandria in our world and when it was burnt down so to did most of humanity's knowledge.
The Nightwings were in a cultural renaissance during the time of Darkstalker and would have likely progressed into industrialism had they not fled the Night Kingdom. Mastermind's desalination machine is near Industrial Revolution era technology while the rest of Phyrria is stuck in the Bronze Age. I would wonder if he came up with this idea out of desperation or if it was knowledge passed down from before the Night Kingdom fell. Also in Arc 4 all the dragons should get laser guns and jet packs that would be badass.
Technology is built out of necessity. Dragons, simply put, don't need to worry about most things. Food, shelter, safety, none of it is something they need to invest some grand amount of time in to.
My question is why they also didn’t evolved culturally. Like, how is that after 5 thousands years, is killing your mother to gain her power still socialy acceptable ?
Well, In Darkstalker Legends, when Clearsight first meets Darkstalker, they do mention in fireworks in their conversation, so some form of black powder exists, and if I remember, concrete is cement mixed with some kind of sand
@@atticussanders7394concrete is an aggregate composed of cement, sand and gravel. Cement, in turn, is made of calcium oxides (alchemical name "lime"), which is made by roasting the carbon out of calcium carbonate under high heat. Calcium carbonate may be derived from *limestone, chalk, or the shells of marine snails and bivalves.*
@@PixlRainbow I'm guessing that seawings would be the first to make both cement and concrete, as they have the ingredients for both things at their disposal en masse
I made a fan tribe that was fairly technologically advanced and holy hell the world building for that was insane. I gave them radios so news would travel more quickly, gave them cameras but they can only show up in greyscale, gave them dynamite, gave them the printing press and electricity. I was tempted to give them guns but they have fire and can basically air strike villages so I thought it was too powerful.
I'm already sort of confused how wars work in a tactical sense in WoF, but if Muskets would exist, how would that work....they just hover in a line shoulder to shoulder? Also Black powder does exist, When Clearsight first met Darkstalker, they mention fireworks in their conversation somewhere
more likely a situation similar to ww2, but instead of with rapid-fire machine guns, with single shot weaponry, requiring more accuracy and saving one's shot for when/where it would count.
Humans invented weapons and vehicles and shelters because we didn’t have those things, and even though dragons build shelters and have some weapons, they mostly have what they need Some dragons breathe fire, some have venom, some can control the things around them, they’re armed and dangerous, daggers and knives and stuff aren’t really a main weapon, more like a backup And dragons don’t need vehicles because they can already fly So advancing technologically wouldn’t really help them as much as it helps us
There is another big thing to take into consideration that (Spoiler Alert) Book 15 explains and its that a couple thousand years before Darkstaler and all that stuff dragon kind was not social. In the past memories in Book 15 it is indeed implied that Dragons were not social creatures and that they lived alone until the humans did the signiture wof move called kidnapping children and then did dragons unite. Humans are naturally social and that forms packs and then after thousands of years in the Paleolithic era communitys so humans already have a headstart in civilization forming but dragons are more solitary and dont form packs unless mating is involved so making communitys is harder and takes thousands of years longer. By the time the dragons united it seemed humanity was in the middle of the medievil times but when dragons united, nearly killed off humans, and formed civilization the dragons were finally able to have the right conditions to crate new technology but at a slower pace humans would also have a slower time developing technology due to the fact that the dragons decided to play Stellaris with the humans so the dragons have actually made great progress in technology as after a couple thousand years are now in like a late classical early medieval era and with the humans and dragonkind more or less united then oh boy is tech gonna get crazy fast because if they stay united then they wont have the same problems as our world had with the whole constant wars thing that can slow tech for a while or speed it up.
I think it would be fine if we saw saw dragon technology but I don't want really modern WOF settings really I like the kind of medieval vibe of wings of fire I don't want it to get to real
I think the Pantalan industrial revolution is right around the corner and Pyrrhia's will probably occur in the late 5000s-6000s. I think if they discover steam and coal power this will lead to things like trains and automization and mass production. As for firearms, I think it's possible. The range is way farther than fire and blowdart guns already exist so the idea of firearms has already begun and all it takes is innovation and advancement in the new era of peace and increased trade. Ill make a video on industrialization on my main channel at some point. I wish this topic was more discussed in the community. Maybe we should do a collab or something. Do you have Discord?
Hum, I believe you are thinking too much like humans If dragon use steam engines and gunpowder, it would be much different than what we did They don't need trains, they already fly, and flying is the fastest way to go, but they could manage a way to go faster. They probably wouldn't make guns like us, and we know they already use "bombs" It would be very different
I haven't read WoF, but don't dragons in that universe have all sorts of long range telepathy magics, visions, and magical ways to store those visions to show to people many years in the future? Because if yes that's all you really need to make "magic internet". Also, dragons should have a very easy time figuring out steam power if they somehow haven't already. And with that they can build big ass cranes, lifts, and whatever eventually a need for these things will arise - what about old dragons that can't just fly up a tower anymore? I know they have palaces and such, surely there needs to be a solution for high elevation construction. Cranes are an ancient invention and so is the lift, having them powered and used for transportation outside of worksites is new though. Dunno. They have written language and a struggle for power - fighting each other. I feel like no matter how well a creature can survive in the wild, the moment a race of power is active within an intelligent civilization (especially one capable of long distance communication) - an innovation race HAS to occur. Simply because the side left behind will always lose. No matter how powerful a dragon is - a dragon with a spear is more powerful. A dragon with a gun - even moreso, and so is a draogn with an armor. In a battle between two dragon "tribes" or "nations", the ones who innovated will win.
I mean there's magic dragons that can turn a blade into a magic homing bullet so I feel like in the end its a competition of who has more magic dragons lol
"I need to get better at this..." No you don't. It may have sounded like you were just saying things, but you explained it in a way that made it sound fun and slightly funny. Just with the way that you were saying that made it so much more compelling to listen and watch. Don't worry about trying to do better when you've already made it great! As for doing more things like that, do it if YOU find it something that interests you. And if you do decide on trying another one of these, my two scents are places that haven't been talked about very much or tribes that could need more explaining. Like I said. My two scents.
when or if we get an arc 4 i do hope we get some slightly better technology, especially since the scavs are there now and are should be able to help with making that stuff
@@Th3.H0n3y.K4t Tui confirmed an arc 4 will happen, just that she's taking a small break writing a different book. And she's still trying with the series, so that's yet to be seen but she hasn't given up on it.
In every war, someone profits. We already know what at least in the Indestructible City, dragon scales are worth a lot of money. So, if Scavengers (humans) someday knew that the dragons were at war, what’s stopping them from going out in small armed groups and descaling dead dragons for money? It could financially fund some individuals, just like some of the millionaires and billionaires we have today. But, if lots of people got their hands on scales or of more and more dragons died and got their bodies looted, the Scavengers could go into an economic collapse due to scales no longer being rare and hard to get a hold of.
I was asking this exact question. Like we know dragons can make stuff, they make art and buildings and jewelry and books. Sure some stuff they won’t invent because they don’t need to but like we know from the night wings that they are curious and will innovate so why haven’t they changed buildings or clothing or things to make life easier. Laziness is also a motivator so why don’t they have movies or flying busses or something so they don’t have to fly so far.
that reminds me of that one time i read a (pretty good!) wings of fire fan comic that took place in an au where dragons were as technologically advanced as we are currently AND THE MAIN CHARACTERS WERE ALL FORTNITE GAMERS (believe it or not there was an actual story besides THAT i swear)
The fact that dragons are the ultimate predatory creatures in WoF really make it hard for the need of technology Because to develop technology, you need to want it, and to want it, you need to believe that you need it, and for that, you also need the brain The brain is not the problem here, WoF dragons are pretty smart (just a little dum), they are complex creatures, so it's possible. But anything they would make wouldn't be drawn by survival, much makes it much slower. War typicly make things faster, we can guess the same here, maybe they have better production than before, they know about forgery and masonry so there's that But ultimatly, they don't really have reasons to improve so much, they are pretty much perfect creatures But if they stumble upon lost technologies or start to study scavengers, maybe then it will change the tides, who know ? And actuelly, I'm going to try and figure it out, what if scavengers were a bit more modern at the Scorching :)
One observation I made throughout reading Wings of Fire is that the world of Wings of Fire could actually be technologically un-advancing. In Wings of Fire book 15, in the part where it shows the events before the scorching, we are told that the humans used to have science labs, that was until The Scorching happened and destroyed everything the humans have built. In Darkstalker, we are shown a very advanced civilization, it also shows that the tribes do have access to gunpowder because it mentions fireworks. In book 4, it shows Mastermind's science lab with different experiments and some machines such as a filter, however the NightWings had to abandon the island because of the eruption and the NightWings relocated to the rainforest while Mastermind is thrown into some kind of prison. Now Arc 3 is possibly the closest we can get to a modern society, there is a bunch of weavings around the hives, chemistry, math, and other school subjects are taught, they had a really creative way of building the hives using treestuff and silk, and they even have literal neighborhoods inside of their hives.
Everyone is in here wondering why dragons don't have guns, but think of it like this: What is a gun? A gun is simply a tool that can shoot a projectile. What is a dragon? A creature that can shoot projectiles from its mouth. Dragons don't need guns. They already ARE guns.
also i think frostbreath from the icewings would be a anti armor weapon since for a lot of materials when they too rapidly cool down they can become brittle and sometimes even shatter and warp
As a homosapien I don't like being called a scavenger but it is half right from a historical, biological and other perspective If we look at the closet real life example Neanderthals they both had technological advancements but homosapiens has more because they where less powerful so they invented basically throwing Spears and other more advanced technology but there is one puzzle peace that does not line up actually three climate changes (this is not current climate change but the end of the ice age) , dragons and humans aren't like homosapiens and neanderthals ,and a big part of neanderthal Extinction is cross breading and coming from dnd it is quite hard to do that
Imagine the day that dragons make their own supped up napalm alternative to cactus bombs. Or even Rainwings having special forces unit with invisibility plus dragon sized weaponry, basically utilizing auto cannons for riffles... Dear lord the possiblilites...
I felt that they were more socially and technologically advanced in Darkstalker's time. I feel we saw a Renaissance, and now they're in the black ages.
Well in the real world (apart from the occasional technology boom like gunpowder or paper), human technology has remained mostly the same since the Mesopotamians up until the Renaissance which is around 5000 years later
scavengers and dragons mixing leads to the plot of "His Majesty's Dragon" or Temeraire, lol. dragons and humans working together during the Napoleonic wars
I think over time silkwings and seawings would become one of the most technically advanced tribes, because they are weaker in terms of abilities that any other tribe. So, gere is mine scale of who would be the most advanced (below) and least advanced (on top) Rainwings: as much as i love them, they just learned to read. + They live in the middle of a forest and generally don't look like they would be interested in progress. Mudwings: they never forgot how to whrite and read, but they don't seem like being interested in progress too. Skywings: yes i know that they learned to do things peacefully after new queen (forgot her name) replaced Scarlet, but in the Nightwing's guide they literally have "amazing fighters" as their characteristic. Why learn when you can do everything with brute force? Icewings: being isolated and unwilling to communicate with other tribes is not a best thing. Homosapiens was worse than their neighbours, but eventually they died out because we could work in group better. Hivewings: being based on bees it would be logical to assume that they can act like one organism to achieve great things, and that any new fact they would discover will spread across all tribe like a wildfire. Sandwings: life can get tough in the desert. They would likely want to make quality of life higher, making new things. Leafwings: they had big libraries until Tree Wars and schools, so i would assume that they have natural knowledge thirst like Nightwings. Silkwings: I'll put them on the same level as Leafwings, as they live together. Silkwings don't have any natural weapons, so they will try to make weapons themselves. Seawings: same reason as Silkwings, no natural weapon (tail doesn't count, other dragons are strong too). But they had free access to knowledge unlike Silkwings, and that helped them become a bit more advanced. Nightwings: they are already the smartest dragons, having huge libraries filled to brim with scrolls. They also possess natural curiosity and want to know more and more. Also they already attempted at some kind of... exoskeleton? Protesis? Idk what to call that suit Mastermind was making for Battlewinner
It was literally just a suit. A highly heat-resistant suit that they planned to pour magma into to keep battlewinner from turning into a popsickle, but still just a suit. It wouldn't have worked either; she'd still have been fully dependent on constant refills from the volcano, and the weight of the suit, combined with her injuries, would probably leave her unable to fly. So she'd be stuck on the island. What they (she) really needed to do was to kindly ask Stonemover to un-freeze her insides, or at least halt the progress. Iirc she lived like that for maybe nine years befofe the DoD arrived and the volcano blew up, so there was plenty of time to work *something* out. But no, she wanted him to dig a bunch of magic holes in the ground.
The humans in the indestructible city have only recently invented ballistas, and you bet your ass that if they actually manage to convince the dragons that they are an actual threat, the city will be buried in a hailstorm of dragonflame cacti.
My tech time line: I’m guessing that the basic tech century in the 1500s, considering in winter turning, gravity is mentioned. Once the steam engine is made due to the intellectuals in the nightwings having the resource capacity of an entire rainforest. Increased mining to find metals for swords leads to discoveries of coal/ fossil fuels, while steam engines are developed to cover the vast distances between and in the continents. Once oil is found, capacity for machinery will explode, while eventually leading to certain inventions: Guns are definitely going to be designed, as a more powerful and effective version of fire Cannons/ explosives derived from the collective scientific knowledge of the 2 continents that take chemical components/ base materials of dragonflam cacti. Around this time, alternative forms of government begin to arise, and the equivalent of the French Revolution happens. These dragons, especially when working with humans, definitely have the potential to surpass our exponential growth. Around this period, each tribe begins to diverge and start countries of geography, not race, which leads to more alternate governments
Most inventive Dragons are the ones with access to magic and they were all either selfish of terrified of the power they held/hold, that being said seawings probably got a few more of those old armour sets laying around probably not versatile enough to make them a worthwhile endeavour however.
also in dragonslayer it was mentioned that leaf could lift boulder twice his size i am assuming what they mean by that is higth next i assumed the bould was round so they are pretty stong just not nearly dragon level strength
The hive wings are EXTREMELY smart and probably already invented electricity, possibly thermal power from flamesilk. But, the th8ng is they don’t even KNOW I mean, they have thermal power right in their basement and could turn tha5 into steam
My guess is that 1. Most things invented by the roman empire were also invented in the old nightwing kingdom, gunpowder absolutely was, as there was fireworks in Darkstalker's time. 2. Animus magic replaced most modern things 3. Dragons don't seem to need to make more things 4. Human societies are closer to the industrial era than we think, as I remember a cannon being mentioned once
I have a whole fanfic that’s set about 2,000-2,500 years after the events of book 15. And the descendants of the protagonists aren’t even the heroes of the story, I made a whole different set of ocs who are. The descendants of the original protagonists are actually villains/anti-heroes
Ah wings of fire what a neat series. I remember when i was a wee litte thing back in 2017 trying to argue that dragon tribes shouldnt mix on the forums… good time, good times Unironically though those first 5 books were pretty good
Humans lack of natural weapons forced us to use our minds to survive. This, combined with our unfailing ability to destroy ourselves over the dumbest things imaginable led to humans either finding new ways to kill each other, or ways to make their lifes more bearable. As for dragons not inventing gunpowder, the discovery of gunpowder happened by complete accident and occured several times in seperate places and took centuries to develop to the point where it could be used in warfare.
I love the way that this video is made. Because the way the dragon is drawn lying on the pillow, it just feels like you're enjoying the day with your friend, then he just starts talking about random stuff. The way you swap backgrounds just makes it feel like I have this one friend and every time I see him he's worked more on his rant. I just found this channel, and I just want to say, good job. I think that your conclusion makes sense. Dragons are so optimized to their environment they don't need technology. Mastermind's desalination chamber is advanced, but probably as technological as dragons really need. and random question, are you a MudWing or what? I would very much like to know.
I feel like its because Tui specifically didn't add that when she was cooking the series. I mean how is it going to be a fantasy land if they get modern weaponry. Also, the WoF world has always been stagnant until the plot wills it. How the heck the Nightwings didn't come up with something during the 3000 years of living away scared from a animus when they have their own animus magic is beyond me. Plus they somehow forgot the one skill their species was known for. I guess dragons just don't have the evolutionary skills as humans do.
I see that humans are pretty... Passive towards the dragons. Like they don't care much about each other... If humans ever cared about wiping out the dragons... I thinks they will become a threat in no time. And then they'll invent some specialized anti-dragon weaponry and fight tactics. In the worst case scenario - they'll salvage dragon corpses for their scale and will just add it to their technology, making dragon scale armor and dragon claw swords and spears. Not to mention dragon scaled battle machines and dragon clawed missiles... I'm not gonna theorize much... But I think that dragons fighting hand to hand - is probably their flaw. Losing a one good warrior hits harder then one battle machine...
Humans care a lot more about the threat dragons pose than dragons do about the threat humans could become, which is almost fitting given how the Scorching is explained. Humans stole dragon eggs to try and tame/domesticate dragons, and the dragons retaliated by burning every human settlement to the ground. This event spurred the development of the dragon tribes, and it reset humanity's development by centuries. The Indestructible City, if I recall correctly, does have defenses specifically to counter dragons. If the next book arc is going to be about the younger dragons and not a new place to explore, I would wager we might be seeing more human/dragon diplomacy, especially since we've already seen dragons attempting to get along with the humans they're keeping as pets. Given what happened to Queen Oasis, not every dragon would be onboard with the idea of befriending humans, and that's a wonderful way to introduce some conflict. Add onto that the language barrier and there's plenty of room for misunderstandings. Additionally, if Cottonmouth is a good indicator, there would be human pushback as well.
If dragons and humans were not getting along then human nuclear weapons with be bad, with dragons first they would be used as mutually assured destruction and keep them "safe"
@@icantthinkofanamernbcimmak2948 Imagine trying to build functional C-RAM with the technologies of ancient greece. Have you even read the WoF books? Ballistas are a novelty to humans in the WoF setting. Ballistas. Are. A. Novelty.
@@icantthinkofanamernbcimmak2948 Technically, a large huochong on a high-angle swivel mount would qualify as flak, at least in spirit, and sort of sounds like it would be in the neighbourhood of what humans in Safe Harbor and Indestructible City might've been capable of constructing with the resources at their disposal. These larger settlements must have had some kind of bloomeries that, with some effort, could be made to produce liquid metals for use in casting gun barrels, and dragonflame cacti is basically dynamite if dynamite was a plant, so processing it into a useable analogue for gunpowder shouldn't be too difficult. The dragons were doing it already as early as the darkstalker book, iirc. I'm not saying that the humans *will* actually do this, just that with the resources available to them, they probably could have working prototypes ready within a decade or so if somebody waltzed into town and explained the basic function of a firearm to the invincible lord. Left to their own devices, the humans' first anti-dragon weapon to involve any kind of explosives will probably be some kind of explosive ballista ammunition (something like a molotov-cocktail but with cactus juice, mounted to the tip of a ballista bolt). Once they've developed reliable-ish impact fuzes for the ballistas, you'll see them develop the Lunge Mine for use when out in the wild; a hand-wielded bomb on a stick for use in emergencies where the fear of exploding yourself to death is outweighed by the fear of being eaten alive. Then they'll make "cupped" versions to focus more of the explosion away from the wielder... And then add shrapnel to better penetrate dragonscales and cause more serious injuries... ...aaand eventually that'll morph into a huochong, and as the effective range of these handheld firearms increase, the humans might then get the idea of building bigger, heavier types to protect their cities with instead of ballistas. If you saw the term "flak" and got the impression that we were imagining an early middle-age civilization randomly starting to produce WWI-style fixed-ammunition sliding-breech artillery out of the blue, then no, that's... not a believable scenario. Downright nonsensical, even.
With all respect dragons do have add on armour Maybe the nightwings might be the most being scientists etc likely to make advancement it could be that nightwings were much more advanced teach before darkstalkers rampage so they had to leave most of their technology and knowledge on the kingdom think about where who created the first books also glassmaking to create telescopes and eyes glass came from we know they exist so where did technology come from I believe Maybe so nightwings like eg roman were far superior in the past with all respect I wonder dragons where better than now what do you think 🤔 am I silly
no they just do not really have to have those things and they have such insane strength also dragons in wings of fire do use spears and armor its just instead of making lasers and stuff the focused a lot of energy on how to make that armor stronger and how to make that spear sharper also humans in wings do cook but we see the dragons cook fish is mentioned in book 1 also do you not remeber how the nightwing made venom proof armor to protect them and as far as i am aware of there is no mention in the current time of humans using plane in wings of fire although mabeye the had them in the pre schorching i do not think any dragons whould need guns i mean rainwing venom icebreath and fire are way stronger than bullets
Technological progress in our real world was extremely slow until the steam engine was invented, really. Once the industrial revolution was in full affect and you had mechanical forms of farming, you didn't need 90% of the entire worlds workforce to be dedicated to farming, which meant many more went on to study, which in turn meant there were many more people available to push society's technological progress.
So basically we're waiting on the dragon version of James Watt to be born.
My personal head cannon is that the OG nightwings from the Darkstalker era where extremely close to the industrial revolution: their society seemed far ahead of the other tribes at that point (atleast from what we can read) and when the whole Darkstalker thing happened and the nightwings fled, most progress both societal and industrial was lost. And it's kind of been a technological dark age since that point.
The ancient nightwings actually have a parallel in the real world being the collapse of the Roman empire and the many advancements that were lost when they fell, the library they had likely was the pyrrhian equivalent to the library of Alexandria in our world and when it was burnt down so to did most of humanity's knowledge.
Automatic hunting machine??? Don't the icewings have something similar?
Darkwing archeotech thematic ark incoming (don't pay me mind I'm on ketamine)
true but that dose not mean there were no industrial improvment before the industrial revolution such as water powered mills
I love how he’s laying his back on a pillow as he goes over the topic like it helps him think better
AYY TRICKY TALONNN
Necessity is the mother of all inventions
Dragons already have all they need to survive
Exactly.
Well, technically so did humans but we still invented stuff.
@@snazzyidiot Really? You know, I’m not gonna say anything in regards to this, unless you make me that is.
@@General_Belu I'm ok with that, I'm simply stating my point of view.
@@snazzyidiot That’s true. But still, irritates me that you said it. But I don’t wanna start an argument. Well, have a good day sir.
I'd say it's only a matter of time before a human gets the bright idea to strap a cannon to the back of a dragon
Hunter or Huntress vibes right there
I think Tui went for the idea of keeping the fantasy as far as from the reality
The Nightwings were in a cultural renaissance during the time of Darkstalker and would have likely progressed into industrialism had they not fled the Night Kingdom. Mastermind's desalination machine is near Industrial Revolution era technology while the rest of Phyrria is stuck in the Bronze Age. I would wonder if he came up with this idea out of desperation or if it was knowledge passed down from before the Night Kingdom fell. Also in Arc 4 all the dragons should get laser guns and jet packs that would be badass.
I think WoF dragons with guns would be hilarious and I want to see all of that
Technology is built out of necessity.
Dragons, simply put, don't need to worry about most things.
Food, shelter, safety, none of it is something they need to invest some grand amount of time in to.
My question is why they also didn’t evolved culturally. Like, how is that after 5 thousands years, is killing your mother to gain her power still socialy acceptable ?
can they? like physically? in order to invent guns, your universe has to have gunpowder. to make modern buildings, your universe has to have concrete.
Well, In Darkstalker Legends, when Clearsight first meets Darkstalker, they do mention in fireworks in their conversation, so some form of black powder exists, and if I remember, concrete is cement mixed with some kind of sand
@@atticussanders7394concrete is an aggregate composed of cement, sand and gravel. Cement, in turn, is made of calcium oxides (alchemical name "lime"), which is made by roasting the carbon out of calcium carbonate under high heat. Calcium carbonate may be derived from *limestone, chalk, or the shells of marine snails and bivalves.*
@Pixlrainbow I didn’t know that, thank you for telling me
Ironically you also need concrete to make much better buildings than modern ones.
@@PixlRainbow I'm guessing that seawings would be the first to make both cement and concrete, as they have the ingredients for both things at their disposal en masse
This was a great therapy session
It would be great to see Scarlet in a red Porsche.
cars are extremely unnecessary in the dragon world, except for us "scavengers ". 🤓
Thank you for the drawing prompt
Austin Martin
Or Pagani
I made a fan tribe that was fairly technologically advanced and holy hell the world building for that was insane. I gave them radios so news would travel more quickly, gave them cameras but they can only show up in greyscale, gave them dynamite, gave them the printing press and electricity. I was tempted to give them guns but they have fire and can basically air strike villages so I thought it was too powerful.
Dude wake up in the morning and have the most random question to decide to make a video on it !
We love your randomness hyperion
I'm already sort of confused how wars work in a tactical sense in WoF, but if Muskets would exist, how would that work....they just hover in a line shoulder to shoulder? Also Black powder does exist, When Clearsight first met Darkstalker, they mention fireworks in their conversation somewhere
more likely a situation similar to ww2, but instead of with rapid-fire machine guns, with single shot weaponry, requiring more accuracy and saving one's shot for when/where it would count.
A musket big enough for a dragon would just be a portable cannon.
Yeah but they just magically never thought to weaponize gunpowder even after 2000 years.
Well, the nightwings probably left a lot behind when they left, and funy explody thingy probably wasn’t high on priorities
In fact china the inventor of gunpowder did not used it first for war just deplay fireworks
Humans invented weapons and vehicles and shelters because we didn’t have those things, and even though dragons build shelters and have some weapons, they mostly have what they need
Some dragons breathe fire, some have venom, some can control the things around them, they’re armed and dangerous, daggers and knives and stuff aren’t really a main weapon, more like a backup
And dragons don’t need vehicles because they can already fly
So advancing technologically wouldn’t really help them as much as it helps us
Very quaint discussion I like it
I think magic in pyria filled the void of technology for dragons
This kinda sounds like a stoner rant and I love it!
There is another big thing to take into consideration that (Spoiler Alert) Book 15 explains and its that a couple thousand years before Darkstaler and all that stuff dragon kind was not social. In the past memories in Book 15 it is indeed implied that Dragons were not social creatures and that they lived alone until the humans did the signiture wof move called kidnapping children and then did dragons unite. Humans are naturally social and that forms packs and then after thousands of years in the Paleolithic era communitys so humans already have a headstart in civilization forming but dragons are more solitary and dont form packs unless mating is involved so making communitys is harder and takes thousands of years longer. By the time the dragons united it seemed humanity was in the middle of the medievil times but when dragons united, nearly killed off humans, and formed civilization the dragons were finally able to have the right conditions to crate new technology but at a slower pace humans would also have a slower time developing technology due to the fact that the dragons decided to play Stellaris with the humans so the dragons have actually made great progress in technology as after a couple thousand years are now in like a late classical early medieval era and with the humans and dragonkind more or less united then oh boy is tech gonna get crazy fast because if they stay united then they wont have the same problems as our world had with the whole constant wars thing that can slow tech for a while or speed it up.
I think it would be fine if we saw saw dragon technology but I don't want really modern WOF settings really I like the kind of medieval vibe of wings of fire I don't want it to get to real
Seeing Glory with a gun had me laughing so hard💀💀
That's a 30mm magazine-fed automatic cannon.
@@gustaveliasson5395
Sound like the right size dragon being much bigger thanpeople
Calculus is canon in WOF actually
Where is it stated at?
@@IsabellaNelson586 the guide book pg 65
@@Doothiousyeah, if i can remember, in kinkajous story she made the sloth a calculus teacher
@@Doothious thanks
@@nevthenotfishi yea😅
I think the Pantalan industrial revolution is right around the corner and Pyrrhia's will probably occur in the late 5000s-6000s. I think if they discover steam and coal power this will lead to things like trains and automization and mass production. As for firearms, I think it's possible. The range is way farther than fire and blowdart guns already exist so the idea of firearms has already begun and all it takes is innovation and advancement in the new era of peace and increased trade. Ill make a video on industrialization on my main channel at some point. I wish this topic was more discussed in the community. Maybe we should do a collab or something. Do you have Discord?
my discord is hyperion_draws I have my own server if you would like a link.
@@hyperion_draws4870 sure!
@@hyperion_draws4870 i just sent you a request. I'm PyrrhianNerd
Hum, I believe you are thinking too much like humans
If dragon use steam engines and gunpowder, it would be much different than what we did
They don't need trains, they already fly, and flying is the fastest way to go, but they could manage a way to go faster. They probably wouldn't make guns like us, and we know they already use "bombs"
It would be very different
@@raskzak3313 trains for transportation of goods, not travel, but it also could be faster than flying.
Would love to see more ‘just talking about WoF stuff’ videos like these
Love your content, man! If you ever go back to doing the interviews or dubbing the comics, give me a heads-up! I love participating in them!
All I can think of: Dragons on a Train during a Boiler Overpressure
I haven't read WoF, but don't dragons in that universe have all sorts of long range telepathy magics, visions, and magical ways to store those visions to show to people many years in the future?
Because if yes that's all you really need to make "magic internet".
Also, dragons should have a very easy time figuring out steam power if they somehow haven't already. And with that they can build big ass cranes, lifts, and whatever
eventually a need for these things will arise - what about old dragons that can't just fly up a tower anymore? I know they have palaces and such, surely there needs to be a solution for high elevation construction. Cranes are an ancient invention and so is the lift, having them powered and used for transportation outside of worksites is new though. Dunno. They have written language and a struggle for power - fighting each other. I feel like no matter how well a creature can survive in the wild, the moment a race of power is active within an intelligent civilization (especially one capable of long distance communication) - an innovation race HAS to occur. Simply because the side left behind will always lose.
No matter how powerful a dragon is - a dragon with a spear is more powerful. A dragon with a gun - even moreso, and so is a draogn with an armor. In a battle between two dragon "tribes" or "nations", the ones who innovated will win.
I mean there's magic dragons that can turn a blade into a magic homing bullet so I feel like in the end its a competition of who has more magic dragons lol
"I need to get better at this..."
No you don't.
It may have sounded like you were just saying things, but you explained it in a way that made it sound fun and slightly funny. Just with the way that you were saying that made it so much more compelling to listen and watch. Don't worry about trying to do better when you've already made it great! As for doing more things like that, do it if YOU find it something that interests you.
And if you do decide on trying another one of these, my two scents are places that haven't been talked about very much or tribes that could need more explaining. Like I said. My two scents.
when or if we get an arc 4 i do hope we get some slightly better technology, especially since the scavs are there now and are should be able to help with making that stuff
I don't think we'll be getting an arc 4, or the series..
@@Th3.H0n3y.K4t Tui confirmed an arc 4 will happen, just that she's taking a small break writing a different book.
And she's still trying with the series, so that's yet to be seen but she hasn't given up on it.
oh cool I actually didnt know abt that@@lk_3099
In every war, someone profits. We already know what at least in the Indestructible City, dragon scales are worth a lot of money. So, if Scavengers (humans) someday knew that the dragons were at war, what’s stopping them from going out in small armed groups and descaling dead dragons for money? It could financially fund some individuals, just like some of the millionaires and billionaires we have today. But, if lots of people got their hands on scales or of more and more dragons died and got their bodies looted, the Scavengers could go into an economic collapse due to scales no longer being rare and hard to get a hold of.
I was asking this exact question. Like we know dragons can make stuff, they make art and buildings and jewelry and books. Sure some stuff they won’t invent because they don’t need to but like we know from the night wings that they are curious and will innovate so why haven’t they changed buildings or clothing or things to make life easier. Laziness is also a motivator so why don’t they have movies or flying busses or something so they don’t have to fly so far.
*“And then all the wars will be…*
*…way, worse.”*
-Hyperion_draws
Glory with a gun would be cool ngl
GAU-90
that reminds me of that one time i read a (pretty good!) wings of fire fan comic that took place in an au where dragons were as technologically advanced as we are currently AND THE MAIN CHARACTERS WERE ALL FORTNITE GAMERS (believe it or not there was an actual story besides THAT i swear)
great video as always!
I though about this to. I even made a post about if dragons would ever get guns.
I actually have an OC that revolves around this concept of Dragons building guns, weapons for war, sea travel, special languages, etc.
Naw dude that’s me😂
I am that scavenger who destroys worlds 😂😂
The fact that dragons are the ultimate predatory creatures in WoF really make it hard for the need of technology
Because to develop technology, you need to want it, and to want it, you need to believe that you need it, and for that, you also need the brain
The brain is not the problem here, WoF dragons are pretty smart (just a little dum), they are complex creatures, so it's possible. But anything they would make wouldn't be drawn by survival, much makes it much slower.
War typicly make things faster, we can guess the same here, maybe they have better production than before, they know about forgery and masonry so there's that
But ultimatly, they don't really have reasons to improve so much, they are pretty much perfect creatures
But if they stumble upon lost technologies or start to study scavengers, maybe then it will change the tides, who know ?
And actuelly, I'm going to try and figure it out, what if scavengers were a bit more modern at the Scorching :)
this is a question that i’ve always asked myself when it comes to basically all medieval/fantasy settings, so interesting to see a video about it!
One observation I made throughout reading Wings of Fire is that the world of Wings of Fire could actually be technologically un-advancing.
In Wings of Fire book 15, in the part where it shows the events before the scorching, we are told that the humans used to have science labs, that was until The Scorching happened and destroyed everything the humans have built.
In Darkstalker, we are shown a very advanced civilization, it also shows that the tribes do have access to gunpowder because it mentions fireworks.
In book 4, it shows Mastermind's science lab with different experiments and some machines such as a filter, however the NightWings had to abandon the island because of the eruption and the NightWings relocated to the rainforest while Mastermind is thrown into some kind of prison.
Now Arc 3 is possibly the closest we can get to a modern society, there is a bunch of weavings around the hives, chemistry, math, and other school subjects are taught, they had a really creative way of building the hives using treestuff and silk, and they even have literal neighborhoods inside of their hives.
Everyone is in here wondering why dragons don't have guns, but think of it like this:
What is a gun? A gun is simply a tool that can shoot a projectile.
What is a dragon? A creature that can shoot projectiles from its mouth.
Dragons don't need guns. They already ARE guns.
Because Humans are just built different 🗣🔥
why was the first thing that popped into my head when i saw the thumbnail for this video: "Bravo six, going dark." UHAEIOPGFEOUYGAUEOfgEf
I heard Knob Creek Kentucky in my head
I was there 😂
also i think frostbreath from the icewings would be a anti armor weapon since for a lot of materials when they too rapidly cool down they can become brittle and sometimes even shatter and warp
i loved watching this video with hardcore metal in the background, it just sounded so sick
I had seven dust cd on🤙
Definitely vibin bro
As a homosapien I don't like being called a scavenger but it is half right from a historical, biological and other perspective
If we look at the closet real life example Neanderthals they both had technological advancements but homosapiens has more because they where less powerful so they invented basically throwing Spears and other more advanced technology but there is one puzzle peace that does not line up actually three climate changes (this is not current climate change but the end of the ice age) , dragons and humans aren't like homosapiens and neanderthals ,and a big part of neanderthal Extinction is cross breading and coming from dnd it is quite hard to do that
Imagine the day that dragons make their own supped up napalm alternative to cactus bombs. Or even Rainwings having special forces unit with invisibility plus dragon sized weaponry, basically utilizing auto cannons for riffles... Dear lord the possiblilites...
I wrote down a list I created of each tribe with different weapons if you want to hear it😂
Been wondering the same thing myself.
When you have wings and magic there isn't any reason to try
I’ve been thinking about this too and well yeah they’ll probably get guns in the future but really far into the future probably
Oh my word the Lord of the rings is SOOOOOOOOO long
I feel your pain
I love this style of video.
I felt that they were more socially and technologically advanced in Darkstalker's time. I feel we saw a Renaissance, and now they're in the black ages.
Uh..I think it's because they were constantly fighting eachother for a long time.
Well in the real world (apart from the occasional technology boom like gunpowder or paper), human technology has remained mostly the same since the Mesopotamians up until the Renaissance which is around 5000 years later
scavengers and dragons mixing leads to the plot of "His Majesty's Dragon" or Temeraire, lol. dragons and humans working together during the Napoleonic wars
I think over time silkwings and seawings would become one of the most technically advanced tribes, because they are weaker in terms of abilities that any other tribe. So, gere is mine scale of who would be the most advanced (below) and least advanced (on top)
Rainwings: as much as i love them, they just learned to read. + They live in the middle of a forest and generally don't look like they would be interested in progress.
Mudwings: they never forgot how to whrite and read, but they don't seem like being interested in progress too.
Skywings: yes i know that they learned to do things peacefully after new queen (forgot her name) replaced Scarlet, but in the Nightwing's guide they literally have "amazing fighters" as their characteristic. Why learn when you can do everything with brute force?
Icewings: being isolated and unwilling to communicate with other tribes is not a best thing. Homosapiens was worse than their neighbours, but eventually they died out because we could work in group better.
Hivewings: being based on bees it would be logical to assume that they can act like one organism to achieve great things, and that any new fact they would discover will spread across all tribe like a wildfire.
Sandwings: life can get tough in the desert. They would likely want to make quality of life higher, making new things.
Leafwings: they had big libraries until Tree Wars and schools, so i would assume that they have natural knowledge thirst like Nightwings.
Silkwings: I'll put them on the same level as Leafwings, as they live together. Silkwings don't have any natural weapons, so they will try to make weapons themselves.
Seawings: same reason as Silkwings, no natural weapon (tail doesn't count, other dragons are strong too). But they had free access to knowledge unlike Silkwings, and that helped them become a bit more advanced.
Nightwings: they are already the smartest dragons, having huge libraries filled to brim with scrolls. They also possess natural curiosity and want to know more and more. Also they already attempted at some kind of... exoskeleton? Protesis? Idk what to call that suit Mastermind was making for Battlewinner
It was literally just a suit.
A highly heat-resistant suit that they planned to pour magma into to keep battlewinner from turning into a popsickle, but still just a suit.
It wouldn't have worked either; she'd still have been fully dependent on constant refills from the volcano, and the weight of the suit, combined with her injuries, would probably leave her unable to fly. So she'd be stuck on the island.
What they (she) really needed to do was to kindly ask Stonemover to un-freeze her insides, or at least halt the progress. Iirc she lived like that for maybe nine years befofe the DoD arrived and the volcano blew up, so there was plenty of time to work *something* out.
But no, she wanted him to dig a bunch of magic holes in the ground.
Skywings new Queen is Ruby
they could work on technology for transport and with that work on technologi for entertainment purpose
Dragons watching their whole civilization get destroyed by earth because we want land
I feel like if we invaded pyhrria some animus is gonna change the laws of physics so our weapons don't work.
The humans in the indestructible city have only recently invented ballistas, and you bet your ass that if they actually manage to convince the dragons that they are an actual threat, the city will be buried in a hailstorm of dragonflame cacti.
My tech time line:
I’m guessing that the basic tech century in the 1500s, considering in winter turning, gravity is mentioned.
Once the steam engine is made due to the intellectuals in the nightwings having the resource capacity of an entire rainforest.
Increased mining to find metals for swords leads to discoveries of coal/ fossil fuels, while steam engines are developed to cover the vast distances between and in the continents. Once oil is found, capacity for machinery will explode, while eventually leading to certain inventions:
Guns are definitely going to be designed, as a more powerful and effective version of fire
Cannons/ explosives derived from the collective scientific knowledge of the 2 continents that take chemical components/ base materials of dragonflam cacti. Around this time, alternative forms of government begin to arise, and the equivalent of the French Revolution happens. These dragons, especially when working with humans, definitely have the potential to surpass our exponential growth. Around this period, each tribe begins to diverge and start countries of geography, not race, which leads to more alternate governments
dragon starfleet
Most inventive Dragons are the ones with access to magic and they were all either selfish of terrified of the power they held/hold, that being said seawings probably got a few more of those old armour sets laying around probably not versatile enough to make them a worthwhile endeavour however.
neat stuff
also in dragonslayer it was mentioned that leaf could lift boulder twice his size i am assuming what they mean by that is higth next i assumed the bould was round so they are pretty stong just not nearly dragon level strength
Once humans get planes things might get spicy, now the humans have flying things, with guns
they should have never made peace with humans now they have to deal with Oppenheimer bomb
The hive wings are EXTREMELY smart and probably already invented electricity, possibly thermal power from flamesilk. But, the th8ng is they don’t even KNOW I mean, they have thermal power right in their basement and could turn tha5 into steam
My guess is that
1. Most things invented by the roman empire were also invented in the old nightwing kingdom, gunpowder absolutely was, as there was fireworks in Darkstalker's time.
2. Animus magic replaced most modern things
3. Dragons don't seem to need to make more things
4. Human societies are closer to the industrial era than we think, as I remember a cannon being mentioned once
China inventor of gunpowder
@@AaronKnight-fe1vm ik
the thumbnail :SKULL:
I have a whole fanfic that’s set about 2,000-2,500 years after the events of book 15. And the descendants of the protagonists aren’t even the heroes of the story, I made a whole different set of ocs who are. The descendants of the original protagonists are actually villains/anti-heroes
That thumbnail 💀
Ah wings of fire what a neat series. I remember when i was a wee litte thing back in 2017 trying to argue that dragon tribes shouldnt mix on the forums… good time, good times
Unironically though those first 5 books were pretty good
Humans lack of natural weapons forced us to use our minds to survive. This, combined with our unfailing ability to destroy ourselves over the dumbest things imaginable led to humans either finding new ways to kill each other, or ways to make their lifes more bearable.
As for dragons not inventing gunpowder, the discovery of gunpowder happened by complete accident and occured several times in seperate places and took centuries to develop to the point where it could be used in warfare.
this vid is so funny
Super Earth calling we want your Oil.
the did mention the dragons using armor such as chain mail and plate
your character is so cute
1:34 you know there’s a thing called fingernails those are claws
Dragons may not have the major priority to advance, but they would be very advanced if they tried on account of all their abilities.
I love the way that this video is made. Because the way the dragon is drawn lying on the pillow, it just feels like you're enjoying the day with your friend, then he just starts talking about random stuff. The way you swap backgrounds just makes it feel like I have this one friend and every time I see him he's worked more on his rant. I just found this channel, and I just want to say, good job.
I think that your conclusion makes sense. Dragons are so optimized to their environment they don't need technology. Mastermind's desalination chamber is advanced, but probably as technological as dragons really need.
and random question, are you a MudWing or what? I would very much like to know.
Exactly why I made a inventor character who thinks his entire species is stupid
I feel like its because Tui specifically didn't add that when she was cooking the series.
I mean how is it going to be a fantasy land if they get modern weaponry.
Also, the WoF world has always been stagnant until the plot wills it.
How the heck the Nightwings didn't come up with something during the 3000 years of living away scared from a animus when they have their own animus magic is beyond me. Plus they somehow forgot the one skill their species was known for.
I guess dragons just don't have the evolutionary skills as humans do.
I see that humans are pretty... Passive towards the dragons. Like they don't care much about each other... If humans ever cared about wiping out the dragons... I thinks they will become a threat in no time. And then they'll invent some specialized anti-dragon weaponry and fight tactics. In the worst case scenario - they'll salvage dragon corpses for their scale and will just add it to their technology, making dragon scale armor and dragon claw swords and spears. Not to mention dragon scaled battle machines and dragon clawed missiles... I'm not gonna theorize much... But I think that dragons fighting hand to hand - is probably their flaw. Losing a one good warrior hits harder then one battle machine...
Humans care a lot more about the threat dragons pose than dragons do about the threat humans could become, which is almost fitting given how the Scorching is explained. Humans stole dragon eggs to try and tame/domesticate dragons, and the dragons retaliated by burning every human settlement to the ground. This event spurred the development of the dragon tribes, and it reset humanity's development by centuries.
The Indestructible City, if I recall correctly, does have defenses specifically to counter dragons. If the next book arc is going to be about the younger dragons and not a new place to explore, I would wager we might be seeing more human/dragon diplomacy, especially since we've already seen dragons attempting to get along with the humans they're keeping as pets.
Given what happened to Queen Oasis, not every dragon would be onboard with the idea of befriending humans, and that's a wonderful way to introduce some conflict. Add onto that the language barrier and there's plenty of room for misunderstandings. Additionally, if Cottonmouth is a good indicator, there would be human pushback as well.
If dragons and humans were not getting along then human nuclear weapons with be bad, with dragons first they would be used as mutually assured destruction and keep them "safe"
Glory with a GAU-90 when?
Gonna be honest, dragons do be laughing at us, until they get mouth full of flak on one of their flights.
And then we'd get carpet-bombed back into the caves with dragonflame cacti dropped from outside the flak's effective range.
Nihil Novi Sub Solem
@@gustaveliasson5395 and then we shoot down all the dragonflame cacti with a c-ram shooting 4,500 shots per minute
@@icantthinkofanamernbcimmak2948
Imagine trying to build functional C-RAM with the technologies of ancient greece.
Have you even read the WoF books?
Ballistas are a novelty to humans in the WoF setting.
Ballistas. Are. A. Novelty.
@@gustaveliasson5395 well yall were talking about flak not ballistas and also yes i have read all of the WoF books
@@icantthinkofanamernbcimmak2948
Technically, a large huochong on a high-angle swivel mount would qualify as flak, at least in spirit, and sort of sounds like it would be in the neighbourhood of what humans in Safe Harbor and Indestructible City might've been capable of constructing with the resources at their disposal. These larger settlements must have had some kind of bloomeries that, with some effort, could be made to produce liquid metals for use in casting gun barrels, and dragonflame cacti is basically dynamite if dynamite was a plant, so processing it into a useable analogue for gunpowder shouldn't be too difficult. The dragons were doing it already as early as the darkstalker book, iirc.
I'm not saying that the humans *will* actually do this, just that with the resources available to them, they probably could have working prototypes ready within a decade or so if somebody waltzed into town and explained the basic function of a firearm to the invincible lord.
Left to their own devices, the humans' first anti-dragon weapon to involve any kind of explosives will probably be some kind of explosive ballista ammunition (something like a molotov-cocktail but with cactus juice, mounted to the tip of a ballista bolt).
Once they've developed reliable-ish impact fuzes for the ballistas, you'll see them develop the Lunge Mine for use when out in the wild; a hand-wielded bomb on a stick for use in emergencies where the fear of exploding yourself to death is outweighed by the fear of being eaten alive.
Then they'll make "cupped" versions to focus more of the explosion away from the wielder...
And then add shrapnel to better penetrate dragonscales and cause more serious injuries...
...aaand eventually that'll morph into a huochong, and as the effective range of these handheld firearms increase, the humans might then get the idea of building bigger, heavier types to protect their cities with instead of ballistas.
If you saw the term "flak" and got the impression that we were imagining an early middle-age civilization randomly starting to produce WWI-style fixed-ammunition sliding-breech artillery out of the blue, then no, that's... not a believable scenario. Downright nonsensical, even.
With all respect dragons do have add on armour
Maybe the nightwings might be the most being scientists etc likely to make advancement it could be that nightwings were much more advanced teach before darkstalkers rampage so they had to leave most of their technology and knowledge on the kingdom think about where who created the first books also glassmaking to create telescopes and eyes glass came from we know they exist so where did technology come from I believe Maybe so nightwings like eg roman were far superior in the past with all respect I wonder dragons where better than now what do you think 🤔 am I silly
I’m pretty sure they have guns don’t they…?Pretty sure a Mudwing soldier was mentioned holding a gun.
huh
Humans in wings of fire are weaker than a stormtrooper.
good video
NOOOO DON'T MAKE ME THINK OF A SEAWING IN A ABRAMS NOOOO-
Sherman tank approaching from the rear!!
It’s probably because a lot of inventions humans have made, dragons have literally 0 need for
Plus, they have animus’s.
I mean dragons already have armor
The funny thing is you dragons don't have grenades and jets that can go super sonic speeds and dragons can't
I wanna see a dragon fight an F-22 raptor
0:29 too hard to choose which
Hey I think I found a new place to pillage for the dark gods!
And military equipment
no they just do not really have to have those things and they have such insane strength also dragons in wings of fire do use spears and armor its just instead of making lasers and stuff the focused a lot of energy on how to make that armor stronger and how to make that spear sharper also humans in wings do cook but we see the dragons cook fish is mentioned in book 1 also do you not remeber how the nightwing made venom proof armor to protect them and as far as i am aware of there is no mention in the current time of humans using plane in wings of fire although mabeye the had them in the pre schorching i do not think any dragons whould need guns i mean rainwing venom icebreath and fire are way stronger than bullets
You are a cutie!