Would you be interested in seeing more videos like this? I had these thoughts that didn't fit my usual video format and I thought it could be interesting to try something different. This would not interrupt my current flow for video essays, vids like this would be in addition to them.
What a joke, this channel is ALL about labels. I'm a married gay man and could not be more confused about this gay guy who is now a 45 year old ww2 woman. What are you doing to your partner changing genders? My view is just as valid.
One of my fave Leslie Feinberg quotes: “I care which pronoun is used, but people have been respectful to me with the wrong pronoun and disrespectful with the right one. It matters whether someone is using the pronoun as a bigot, or if they are trying to demonstrate respect.”
All of John's little waving at the camera moments are cute, and I liked hearing from him about his thoughts on his own sexual identity and how the language he's used to talk about his identity have changed overtime. I'd love to hear more from him if he's open to it, but also if he'd rather not be super vulnerable on the internet I understand that. But it's honestly really cool to hear from an older queer person who has also used different language at different points in his life. It feels really liberatory to know that the language I use to talk about my identity can shift. There's this narrative sometimes that I hear that's kind of essentialist about how it's all about discovering your true identity and like there's some ultimate truth inside us that we're all working to discover and I'm sure that's true for some people and that's great, but for me I'm not sure there is an ultimate, correct identity label I just need to find. I'd rather use imperfect language and just let it shift and be fluid overtime, recognizing that the language I use to talk about my identity isn't as important as the life I'm living and the communities I'm a part of. Also your necklace is so pretty! This was a cool video and if you wanted to explore more of these reflections of queer culture (State of the Discourse, perhaps?), I'd be interested in that
Agreed, both about needing more John and how there is no deep true identity, because it's always changing. I think the belief there's a hidden truth comes from a wish to fully understand everything about oneself and that in doing so there'll be instructions on how to express that. Obviously nothing can tell you who you are so it's kinda a flawed logic. I deff relate to the need for identity tho
I find it frustrating that people jump from "impact over intent" to "intent doesn't matter". There are so many times where intent matters so much, like your friend who doesn't have the vocabulary but does have the love. When harm is done we need to address the harm first, but with building bridges and doing harm prevention, intent matters.
I'm nonbinary, and I wish I could be stealth. Being nonbinary isn't something I consider really important about who I am, but sadly there's no way for me to be stealth using they/them.
I believe, as difficult and shitty as it may feel some days, the work you are doing just by being visible will mean one day there will be ways to just exist as nonbinary. I hope that could provide some tiny bit of comfort on the bad days.
I do wonder if this is part of why people assume this is a generational gap, because it's often nonbinary people who point out that sometimes being stealth is impossible, and nonbinary identity tends to be associated with younger generations
"Live your life not the label" is such a good quote. It sort of summarizes exactly what i would like to say. Every time I go online to look at queer content, i pretty much see the same exact vocab being used. And while certain terms can make communicating your feelings easier, it can also be quite limiting. Sometimes I felt like my feelings HAVE to align with a certain box or certain words and their meanings. But as you already said- every queer experience is different. And while it may overlap for some people, certain experiences are just different and the person might be comfortable just using common words to discribe that. Besides that I think that the queer experience in real life is often more diverse that what people talk about online. Language also plays a big role. But anyway, thank you for making this video - it really got me thinking about that topic. Im also from Germany btw hehe. All the best wishes to you and John
I relate to this a lot. As a young adult who grew up in queer online spaces I knew about all the labels and different communities and while I was figuring out I was aroace, the one thing I wanted was to fit into one of those categories. I wanted a community and a flag and a culture. But that kind of pressured me to define myself through a label. Don’t get me wrong, I love that so many people find comfort in those communities, it’s just that there weren’t many people who just existed without labelling themselves so I thought that wasn’t an option. Now I identify as somewhere between aroace (which is ultimately what I am) and labelless (which is what I’m mostly comfortable with). I think while figuring myself out I came to the conclusion that I just want to vibe and not care as much about living up to a label anymore. And ye I’m also German lmao, thank you for this video
You’re in my neighborhood! This was such a sweet and nuanced video, thank you for sharing your experience 💕 labels describe us, they don’t define us. Language will only ever be what we make of it and it’s impossible to fully encapsulate the human experience with only words. Loved hearing both of your perspectives.
I connected with the ideas in this video soooo much. There's a lot of...I don't wanna say "infighting" but I suppose disagreement in wlw spaces about words. In the mid 20th century "lesbian" meant any woman who loved women, then with women's lib and the beginnings of the modern gay rights movement in the 70s, bisexuality became more prominent as a term. and then we come to the 21st century and pansexuality arises to "replace" bisexual because the term was viewed by some as outdated. and mixed in with all of it was a lot of transphobic garbage weaseling its way in and out of the conversation (along with biphobic garbage, as you can tell by how the word bi has been debated so much), muddying what it meant to be in a community of women attracted to other women. part of me kinda longs for the simplicity of the past, not because I don't see the value in micro labels in finding oneself. But from a community building aspect, that individualism seems to only encourage young people (especially those online who haven't had the chance to discover irl community yet) to artificially create divisions that don't really exist, attempting to parse out and separate our experiences and struggles but not to reconcile our solve them collectively.
I think this is a large reason why the term "Sapphic" has caught on so much. It allows for all these microlables to all coexist under a wider umbrella instead of creating division.
I have very complicated feelings on this. I’m a lesbian and a lot of my identity stems from my lack of attraction to men. I do feel a very deep connection to sapphics who are mspec but at the same time the distinction that the current definition of lesbian provides is important to me. I think if they world was different I would rather be able to have no label at all but that’a so hard in the world we’ve built. All of the infighting and division in the lgbtq community sucks for sure though. We should understand and respect our differences (especially applies to white lgbtq people acknowledging white privilege), but we also need to learn to see how we’re the same in many ways
I enjoyed this vlog style video, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them on your channel. I'm in my early 40s and identify as nonbinary. I remember being in college computer labs surfing the early internet and researching androgyny and seeing the description of "genderqueer" for the first time. I think there's some truth to the idea that the language on these topics is ever-evolving and it's possible that the state of language and the discourse affects how we feel about our own queerness. The philosophy of how interdependent language and thought are is fascinating.
I'm BIPOC and my parents are immigrants from what would be considered a homophobic/macho culture ( in large part due to the impacts of colonization and slavery). So, the impact vs intent section of the video resonated with me because of how my cultural experience relates to my queer experience. When I'm interacting with people from my culture, I meet people where they're at or I'm stealth so that I can still interact with my people. Losing my culture for my queerness or my queerness for my culture isn't worth it to me, so that's how I've been dealing with that. It means a lot to me when people don't use the "right" words but they're doing their best and being kind when they've been taught to react to someone like me with attempts at conversion therapy at best.
I regretted coming out as bi to some members of my family because I felt they used me as their Gay Friend excuse and a lot of that was because I felt to social pressure to Be Out, Live Your Truth, Set A Good Example, And The Only Way You Can Take Part In The Community Is To Be All The Way Out. That is a major thing, having to deal with internalized stigma saying I am not queer enough to access community if I am not Queer In This Specific Way. Now that I am out as nonbinary professionally and socially, a major boundary I have with those family members is that there are parts of my life that don't concern them, and that's my sexuality and gender. If they can't deal with that it doesn't matter because it isn't their business. My mom spent 30 years commenting how pretty my long hair was and not picking up on how uncomfortable that made me, then finally figured out I was legitimately joyful when it was short. A term like gender euphoria would make her run for the hills, but she understands the vibe which was more than she did before. Its sort of the way I treat my pronouns at work too. I use they/them and I correct people when they misspeak but my gender experiences don't effect how I get data from looking at rocks. It effected my education and my experience in the workplace because society is so obsessed with a binary and immutable experience of gender, but rocks are blessedly simple.
I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this topic. As someone who (also) lives in Germany, I was just about to comment on language barriers and their influence on (self-)expression. Sometimes the (English) dominated online discourse feels quite far away from my lived experience. It makes me think about how much language can distort perspective. Ultimately, I feel that empathy might be more important than language (but German really needs gender-neutral pronouns).
Exactly i find it hard for me and to express myself and sometimes for others to speak about me in French for a similar reason. It's not just "you need gender neutral pronouns" but gender neutral conjugations as well. Even if I were to go by the more recent "iel" in French because there's not a gender neutral conjugation thingy I would have to use the masculine or feminine system. My teacher for a recent immersion program I did said that since masculine is the dominant one that it would likely be used for iel. While it does feel better than feminine on me it's not quite there. In addition iel can sound like "il" or "elle" depending on the person listening so with this in mind they might just end up using the feminine system anyways if they misheard.
Definitely. English is my first language so learning German completely opened up my world in terms of expressing myself and when I’m not doing RUclips, I speak more German than English in my life. I could make a whole video about the linguistic differences between the two, especially when I identified as non-binary, but this channel is supposed to be about Disney haha
I absolutely agree with you haha. I speak German, English and Russian and English just seems the most inclusive and genderneutral to me. German doesn't have "they/them" pronouns but in Russian (in addition to that) almost every verb is gendered. It just exhausts and frustrates me sometimes! On the other hand that can encourage us to get creative and find new ways to express ourselves with the language we're given.
@@candicraveingcloude2822 the mishearing it as one of the gendered pronouns problem could probably also arise with German "sier" although that one is only one of the more common German neopronouns and not as agreed upon as "iel" is in French. To my knowledge it us a combination of "sie" and "er" (people, please correct me if I'm wrong!) and I think it sounds way too similar to "sie".
From an academic perspective I think this is why I really like qualitative research, interviews and surveys and stuff, because everyone has such unique and interesting stories and experiences. There is no one way to be trans or even to be stealth or closeted or whatever. I think we lose a lot when we cling too tightly to rigid definitions and tell everyone they need to fit neatly into one category or another. The reality is much more nuanced than that and it's beautiful
absolutely, and this feels lovely to hear! as someone who's "stealth" in that only the people who have to know im trans know im trans; it can be sometimes a little exhausting for other trans people i meet to assume i'm "closeted". i was closeted before i started my transition and i was a sad and miserable person then, and now i'm much more whole and happy with myself. that's not the same 'condition'. i'm living my truth now which is being a man (i'm a binary trans man), and i can't see how in any world that means i'm hiding my identity. i understand people who have transness be a huge part of their identity because it can be that, but the assumption that if you're not that, that means you're closeted, just seems pretty reductive. this is especially frustrating as a straight trans man, since when i do try to participate in the conversation and go to queer events i'm often met with "i hate straight people" type comments which can feel really alienating in a group i already feel kind of alienated from. i think much like non-queer culture; queer culture needs to move away from generalizations and over-relying on labeling. it's okay to just let people be themselves and live the life they want to be, and they're not less queer for not fitting the box of being gay, gnc, nonbinary, and alt with blue hair and 12 piercings. (and hey, i kept identifying with lesbian for awhile after i started transitioning and living as a man, too. i think that's pretty normal for many of us. for me, that ended up changing, but for lots of people it doesn't. and either way, you're fine, and that's fine!)
I thought your words were really insightful, and as someone who also has grown up on tumblr in a similar timeframe (I'm 26) I know exactly what you're talking about. Language can be so powerful for expressing ourselves and even changing the way we think about things. At the same time, it can also be policed to the point that some people feel like they are purposefully excluded from a broader narrative, or punished for semantic infractions. I do think we gotta trust ourselves and each other a bit more to take into account people's intent, lest we isolate ourselves on our moral high horse or whatever. This conversation reminded me of something a trans girl I follow on tumblr recently expressed, which was basically that moving away from the term "transsexual" may have lost us a really beautiful idea, which is the idea that sex itself can be transformed and changed, instead of this modern concession that "oh no well my sex must be x but my gender is y", aka being a male woman or female man, which is simply not how a lot of us conceptualize ourselves and mostly serves as a "gotcha" moment for transphobes to make trans people uncomfortable by saying "well you're still [insert sex assigned at birth here]!". Not that this is trans people's fault really, but it definitely gave me some food for thought on how does it benefit us to ostracize trans people who refer to themselves as transsexual? And isn't there some power in that term? Anyways, lovely vid as always, I enjoy this format and would like to see more :)
I grew up with the "you gotta go full stealth" culture. One of the reasons I delayed my transition was exactly because it turned out to be really hard to move away from everyone who knew me, and frustratingly video chats had become a thing. Then later I went mostly stealth as I wouldn't tell anyone new. I didn't want to keep explaining, nor did I want to be "the trans friend" or "the trans employee" or whatever. That was pretty miserable though since it meant I had to always talk around details of my past and keep parts of it secret as it would throw open new questions. It also was terrible since I lost track of who knew and who didn't. Some people forgot, others found out through common friends or at some point guessed because of the topics I seemed to know more about and be vocal about. Now I switched to be more open about it, since it can show others that they're not so alone and also can come to me about any queer topic. As for using the right terms. It feels so strange seeing people treat words that were THE correct words in the past as if they were slurs. They weren't great, but it also doesn't need to have such a violent reaction to them. That said, even back then there were plenty of slurs that will still make me super uncomfortable. But yeah insisting on the right way to talk about things just makes it so you don't really talk about it, you're just sticking people back into boxes without any freedom of discovery
I loved the format! It's a very interesting video and great points were raised. I usually disagree with other queer people about word usage and other sort of "politically incorrect" problems that are so loudly vocally complained by the community. Here in Brazil, before the LGBTQ+ initialism was adopted, we had GLS, meaning gay, lesbian and simpatizers. Simpatizers held everyone else, be them trans, bi, or straight supporters. It obviously isn't a terribly inclusive initialism, however, it was a label that helped me get a sense of community before LGBTQ became the prevailing term. I don't think it's a bad term. It might be outdated because we now have a more inclusive one, but must it be scrubbed from existence? I don't think so.
@@DreamsoundsVideo GLS has become a meme between gay people these last few years because of "oblivious" but well-meaning straight people using it instead of LGBTQ to talk about us. I myself usually say GLS all the time sort of as a joke, but I don't think it's a bad term. I can tell you more about my experience as a Brazilian gay if you ever need it for a video or just research :)
This was so fascinating! I just wanted to say that on the topic of stealth, I have been outed so many times by cis people who think that because I'm trans that means I don't have a right to keep that private and that I'm obligated to inform all the people around me as those I'm some kind of sex offender. Because of this, being stealth to me is finding freedom and fighting against the transphobia that told me I had to mark myself so no one could fall under the impression I was a real man. On the other hand, many people find that being out and proud is liberating! For them it fights against the trans erasure in our society and against the shame they've been taught. It's different for everbody!
I recently changed my label from “bi” to “queer” publicly and it has definitely caused some controversy. My boss heard me refer to myself as queer and kind of had an outburst about how why is it okay for me to call myself that but if she refers to me as “a queer” that could get her fired etc etc. it’s been very difficult to try to describe to non-LGBT people the nuisances of us reclaiming queer and the discourse in the bi/pan community without completely reversing any respect I’ve gained from them in the years as a woman who likes all genders.
You've given me a lot to think about in this video. I think something that stood out to me in watching this and the anecdotes you were sharing - part of queerness as I have come to understand it is that it is messy. That part of human experience, sexuality and gender, is messy in a way that resists taxonomy. That there are new words to organize or anchor one's understanding of self in - that's helpful for a lot of people, for sure. They give you ways to see the possibility space and imagine yourself in it. But that old world of euphemisms (like "colleague") still created space for people to be. We did not invent queerness with our new terminologies. And that your identity as a woman doesn't necessarily cut you off from your past and affinity with gay men and gay community. A lot of people's understanding of gender makes them categorically incompatible, but that is not necessarily the case. It is just people's inability to hold the two together without somehow rendering one or the other illegitimate.
A little trans man here, I would like to introduce myself as a general man and not so much as trans because although I am very proud of my trans brothers and sister who fight for their rights I`m emotionally tired for many things (mental health problems usually) that I'm not emotionally prepared to add the struggle that is trans in every conversation. Sometimes I want to be Dakota without pressuring myself with anything, there are certain feminine things that I like like makeup that I love so much but that I don't feel brave to use because every time I go out with it becouse Im not passing (pass to refer to a trans person who does not see as trans for cis people) for people that is an affirmation that I am a woman when Im not. Thank you for making me feel confident about my personal take on being trans sometimes people just aren't ready or don't want to do it and that's okay, we need to be more understanding with the various parts of the community because in the end that's what we unite as a community in the frist place 🌻💛
"The fact that we're talking about the importance of words like this, doesn't mean that words have to be important." Yes, this! I feel that this exactly describes my own experiences. I realised I was queer in my very early twenties, and having the words to describe how I was feeling were earth-shattering to me. (I've described the feeling as some cosmic force ripping the roof from my apartment, pointing at my computer screen, and saying, "hey, that's you!") Now, though, I tend not to go into detail with all of the 'technical' words for how I am. Partially because I absolutely do not have the energy to explain it out to people -- but also simply because I don't care that much anymore. I finally feel like the wheels of my life have fallen onto the right path, and I trust how I feel in my gut more than the fluid nature of words. Not that they're not important, but importance, like anything else, can change over time. (Also, I couldn't help but wave back at my screen every time John waved. 👋)
I want to start dating life again and I really struggle with deciding how I want to present myself on these websites. I am about to start HRT at the end of the year, but I have socially transitioned already a year ago. I absolutely call myself a trans woman all the time and it feels 95% correct. Just as my female name and pronouns seem to be fitting. But I still wonder if I should categorize myself as non-binary when it comes to dating coz I want to connect with people who feel comfortable with me being mid-transition with days when I somewhat pass and days where everyone just sees a man in me.
Now I have NO dating experience whatsoever. And I’m not trans, or have much knowledge on being trans to boot. So take my advice with a grain of salt. But why not just say “Trans woman on HRT(hormone therapy)”?
That's an interesting dilemma. However awkward I would agree with the person above me. That's the clearest way to put everything about your body and how others perceive you on the table. Ofc, everything is case by case
If you're a trans woman you're a woman, it doesn't matter if you don't pass some days, that doesn't change anything. If you want to meet people who truly respect trans women, then you should be honest instead of saying nonbinary because that might lead to you meeting people who are less understanding of your gender
I strongly agree with what you've touched on in terms of trans experience and language. I would probably be called "stealth" by some - Im a genderqueer trans guy and I don't typically tell people I meet irl that Im trans. I don't want Jesse, The Guy Who Is Trans to be what people first think of when they think of me, I want to be seen as me without any asterisks. Im fine with being out to ppl if the moment calls for it, or if it comes up, but only if I trust that they're not gonna be weird about it. I also live in a fairly rural, red leaning state in the US. Being out at work when most of my coworkers are heavily conservative? absolutely fkn not lmao. Im also a man who wears nail polish and stud earrings so I am visibly quee.r to anyone in the know, but im not visibly *trans* by intentional design
ive noticed some older folks shy away from using labels like gay or nonbinary or whatever, because they were raised that saying it out loud was wrong and may ruin someones reputation. at least thats what my mom says, even when she is supportive in most other ways aside from not using that nuanced language ive been used to with my peers. i assume your neighbor has a similar mindset. that being said, the taboo of saying those things must go!! its always helpful to, kindly, ask clarifying questions with their euphemism-filled stories by actually using the words they dance around.
I'm comfortable identifying as a trans man but I do not know how to pass and it's exhausting putting energy into being perceived as a guy only to realize that people don't see me that way. As much as it feels like I'm going backwards, it's less emotionally taxing going out perceived as a girl rather than feeling eyes on me trying to figure out my gender.
I should probably be saying "just be true to yourself" but honestly do whatever works for now. You know who you truly are. If your friends know, they know too, and that's what matters the most to me (passing would be nice though...)
I really enjoyed this thoughtful discussion. Nuance, and making space to acknowledge nuance and the 'stickiness' of some of thesr subjects is becoming antithetical to online queer discourse. Grey areas can feel uncomfortable. But we are the side that believes in spectrums, grey areas are inherently anti binary. I also fundamentally believe intention is the most important thing. I had to think a lot about stealth once I got to a certain point in my transition - it was appealing. A certain safety, a different kind of danger but a way to maybe move beyond being defined as trans. And I certainly do not begrudge those that choose stealth- in this world, trans people should do whatever brings them joy and peace. But I couldn't find joy in secret. I found joy in pure honesty and ownership of my history. I also think with the way the world is ATM, trans people living in their truth is needed. I'd love to live in a world where we didn't need to be visible, didn't need to challenge societal expectations and where none of us had to think about gender at all really, but we are not there yet. I work to make that world so future trans people will not even need the concept of stealth. All of this informs my work as a community artist, where my explicitly queer and trans art kind of outs me. It's all part of the work needed to protect the future.
Thank you for this video. It spoke to me a lot, as someone who came to terms with being trans 6 years ago yet am still trying to figure out how to most comfortably be myself. I had a slightly different trajectory than you in that I thought I was purely transfem, only comfortable with she/her, for most of that time, and have only recently embraced my non binary side, the side that sometimes prefers they/them and likes being a little androgynous. I felt so weird for going from only wanting to pass as a cis woman all the time to actually feeling happy about not visibly fitting into the binary sometimes. Both of these sides are still parts of me, I feel, and together they make an identity that I don't see commonalities with as much across the queer community. It can feel a little isolating, so it brings me comfort hearing about similar experiences. I personally think gender as a construct is just too complex and personalized to be perfectly encapsulated by a given set of words deemed broadly acceptable. There are an infinite amount of ways to experience it that are going to be different for many. Descriptors can be useful shorthands but just don't always give the full picture.
The delightful delicacy of “then fuck ‘em, I mean, I don’t know.” You are so charming! And I love background John, just floating in and out of the shot with his lil smile. But yes, the idea of anyone else dictating how you must display your experience is just another way of creating a box in which people feel they have to fit. It actually defeats the purpose of individual freedom. It does a disservice to any group when “all” is used in tandem with some defining feature, because that does a disservice to humans in general. As for your sweet neighbour, I am of the belief that intent is most important, especially when one of the things I’ve been told as a queer person is that I’m supposed to demand patience from others. I find it strange not to offer patience in return. I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with taking opportunities to teach someone more inclusive words so they can maybe update the terminology of their views, but it shouldn’t be done forcefully or aggressively. If someone already behaves like an ally, then it’s likely offering to talk to them more about queer topics and terms will be met with a positive attitude in return. Even if they respond with something like “I’m too old to remember all the new terms,” then at least you won’t have put someone who means well in a spot where they had to become defensive. Because they owe you as much as you owe them, which is to say bluntly: nothing. Kindness is not a requirement, it’s a gift, so I don’t see why then anyone would ever want to shut down a show of kindness simply because the person giving it has a different vernacular. You covered a lot in this, so I doubt I addressed all of it or even smoothly conveyed what I did address, but I did want to take you up on the offer to use the comments for discussion. Thanks.
This is a great video! I don't think your videos "exclude" or "leave out" other narratives, in fact I think you're really, really good at being inclusive and looking at the diversity of queer experience. For my own part, the vast majority of people I interact with just think I'm a straight cis man, but I'm queer, I'm bi, I'm nonbinary, but I don't really think of myself as in the closet, really, either, because it's less that I'm not telling these people but more that it's my business. Like, I'm perfectly happy that way, my partner knows what my deal is (I mean as much as I do), and my gender expression is very masculine, and again, I'm happy with it that way. And like, it's been useful because Ive worked in environments that weren't really queer-friendly and never really raised conflict, and was able to be an "ally" to queer students on a deeper level than just "I tolerate you" without that jeopardizing my job. I will admit that sometimes I feel a bit cut off from the rest of the queer community, but I know for my own purposes who I am, and that's what matters to me, so I guess I'm less "in the closet" and more "stealth?" Idk. And I think the "Tumblr social justice" method of policing language does some real damage to that sense of community that you're talking about. What's really important is like a sense of community, a sense that people are there to support and help and fight for each other. Edit: also I love this format, it really worked for a chill, conversational video topic and having John around to be sweet on camera and offer little bits too was cool. You two are so cute together!
7:54 omg that little exchange of smiles is so cute! I personally am very into this video format- It feels very relaxed, is relaxing, and gives us the opportunity to hear just what you think about things and gives context to your perspective when you're making Disney-related content
I am super stealth to all the transphobes in the internet. XD Turns out that the majority of them still doesnt recognize our flag even when you rub it into their face.
I've always hated the term stealth and how it's used as a dirty word. I'm transitioning because I AM a man not because I WANT to be a trans masc person. It's not stealth, it's not being a trap, it's being a man. Every other man gets that right. To take it from me or call it anything else sets me apart and denies me the right to be what I am. This is not an attack on anyone who wants to be called trans(insertgenderhere) or is trans masc or feminine. It is simply a statement of fact, you would not want me to insist on your gender or what you call your self or the place you hold in society. Don't do it to others. Other than that rant I enjoyed this video. I'm very happy for you, coming out is hard no matter the circumstance and I hope things are going your way.
Thank you for sharing this perspective. I totally understand and agree with your criticism about the term and it’s been interesting for me as a trans woman who has recently began passing in certain scenarios, being caught inbetween wanting my transness not be something that always precedes me being a woman, but also feeling like being born a cis woman wouldn’t be ideal for me and I enjoy being specifically a trans woman. I do think after reading your comment, though, I will rethink my usage of the word stealth in that way.
@@DreamsoundsVideo thanks for the reply, I've been watching your videos since the one you did on Ashman's work in the little mermaid I think. I've learned so much about music from your channel. Also thanks for considering what I said. I know quite a few trans people who, unlike myself who is just annoyed by it, consider stealth to be just as bad as calling someone a trap. I don't think it's that bad, but it can be really upsetting when said in a nasty way. It's been enlightening for to hear you talk about enjoying being specifically a trans woman.
Before I say anything else I want to say that you and John have been relationship goals for so long, but even more so during this video- I love that you two found each other and are supporting each other through everything. I want to find someone like that, and it’s nice to see a reminder that it can come from anywhere. It isn’t entirely the focus but my current relationship with my own gender sort of smacks of your relationship with the term “gay.” I am flirting with the concept of being a demigirl or agender. I am sticking with demigirl because I don’t feel like I’m female, but I honestly have this weird, nebulous detachment to the whole gender process. I am fine with my she/her pronouns and presenting feminine and my birth name and the identity built around myself as a “cis woman.” But to me it’s personally sort of… worthless? I know that’s not the case for everyone or even most people, but I am currently torn between “you’re fine with all the female parts of your gender presentation, you’re a cis woman” and “you’re agender because deep in your bones you feel like your own gender is just… nothing” and “you’re a demigirl because you’re riding the weird line between cis woman and agender and you’re not looking to change any presentation” I think John made the best point when he said the bit about “life, not label.” I ran through my head in circles about which label fits my situation but ultimately I should just live my life and enjoy my detachment to gender without stressing about finding a name for it and making everyone go by those labels. I’m happy where I’m at in my strange limbo state. I’m just going to be me and not worry about what the outsiders say.
I'm so happy to have discovered your channel recently and I'd love more videos like this. I feel like part of the beauty of queerness is we don't fit into traditional boxes and I am absolutely grateful to finally have some words like non binary or demi girl but none of them completely encapsulate who I am so I love seeing how others express themselves even under the same umbrellas.
I really enjoyed this video format. I think you should do more like it. I find your perspective really interesting and you allow for discussion as well.
I really loved this video. It's a revelation to hear that you can use the wrong words in the right way and that relentlessly correcting my family members is not necessarily the best way to move forward. Such a nuanced discussion that I really appreciated. Also, I'm in love with your necklace and lip color. Also also, your hubby is an absolute treasure. I would enjoy hearing more about his experiences if he is comfortable sharing.
This was so refreshing to hear. My dad is incredibly conservative, yet I know that despite not having the language to properly communicate with me in my own realm of experience, he fully supports who I am. He continues to be one of the most supportive people in my life and no amount of modified language can match the impact that he has had on my life. He gives me hope that despite backgrounds, there can always be a link to understanding. There really is so much within people's psyche that we don't get to see and it's so unfortunate. There could be so much potential for bringing people together if we look just beneath the surface of the water
I agree with you. I feel like lately there's been a sort of simplification with the way we talk about queer experiences that can be clearly seen in the way younger people, like myself, judge older queer people for not "using the right terms". It goes without saying that we all can learn new stuff regardless of our ages, but we also have to acknowledge the different backgrounds everyone has. My partner is non-binary and while they are very comfortable using they/them in english, since our native language is spanish, it takes us to a funny place where we both think is weird to use the neutral option "e" because it doesn't roll on the tongue so easily but we also want to make an impact and create visibility for non-binary folks. Of course sometimes the force of habit has us speaking with their old pronouns instead, or simply because is tiresome to explain to your 70 y.o granny what being non-binary is and she can understand "gay" or "lesbian" better. Since spanish is a very gendered language it's unavoidable to use some sort of gender indicator unless you want a super long sentence that avoids as many pronouns as possible... So I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone will speak within their cultural boundaries and, as you said, intent has to be important too, as much as we need to create spaces where we use language as a form of queer expression or political statements. Context matters
It’s so insane that trans people feel guilty about living their lives how they choose to simply because they’re not the perfect political “pawn” (not the right word, but the only one that comes to mind) for the community
I’ve always found your videos to be really… I’m looking for the right word, comforting? Like you’ve always been a nice reminder that there’s a world past the tiny hateful town I grew up in (small towns in East Texas aren’t really the height of exceptence), and as a young trans-non-binary person, that means a lot. I’m lucky enough to have incredibly supportive parents (although they’re still learning in some regards), I have a very dear friend who isn’t as lucky, and who’s parents seem to think if they keep ignoring him he’ll stop being queer. These videos are wonderful reminder that the world is bigger than that Thank you for being incredible (sorry this was mushy and probably awkwardly worded)
Yes I am interested in more conversational videos like this, thank you! And I’m subscribing now that I’ve found you, tho you’re only going to be around for a few more months 😆 I totally love what you’re saying, in Germany they don’t have the same words to describe but you can tell her meaning and that she was coming from the right place, with kindness. And that’s what I try to do, just be loving and supportive of people. I am a straight and cys(sp?) woman who is clueless but trying. I’ve got three kids, and one has been saying they’re trans and non binary so that was my intro to this world. I’m trying to learn and be understanding and patient.
I loved this "vlog", the atmosphere was gentle and relaxed. And John just vibing plus the greenery was calming and cute. I agreed with his words and your general speech.
Hi, let me start by saying, I’ve just found you and this is my first time watching a trans creator to my knowledge. I think identify as a straight male, but in the past I’ve been on dates with other guys, and even kissed them. I’ve experimented trying to wear makeup to express myself and wearing feminine clothes. I think I’ve always wanted to try these things, as my father had shared an experience or two with drag of his own and this may have always made me curious. Or maybe he understood I was exactly whatever I am and left the options open, I’m not sure, but I do know I had something to get off my chest about dressing all pretty and making my face look pretty, but I don’t think that’s the point of the trans experience after hearing you speak. I really want to learn more and I just think you’re really quite amazing for powering through all these thoughts and concepts. You seem really well spoken and I was able to follow along with everything you said and I’m sort of really emotional about the connections you’ve made in my mind and I just want to thank you for letting me in and letting me hear your thoughts. I had no idea and you’re so similar to me in so many ways, I’m just sort of really embarrassed to admit I was so unaware. I think when Jon spoke about his experience about covering up how he was until his mid twenties sort of really spoke to me. I think you guys are wonderful and I want to thank you for sharing yourselves for everyone to see, that’s terrifying and I hate commenting because of it. I love you guys for existing, it makes me really happy actually.
I'm trans but I almost never refer to myself as that online because I don't want people to expect representation or a specific queer experience from me. The idea of queerness is very americanized thanks to sites like tumblr and the diveristy of experiences and expressions that can happen in different places of the world are often taken as invalid or traditional. I want to be stealth not because I'm ashamed, but becuase I just am this. The lgbt community is obssessed lately with labels and, as you said, I'm tired to see people use the right words to say bad things and watching others despise people that may not have the correct (and very location based) language, but have the best intentions.
Honestly, I really enjoyed this video! I'd definitely enjoy seeing more of this kind of content, if you are looking to continue this kind of thing. i like the "casual talks" just as much as the "immensely reseached video essays".
I like videos like this where it's more conversational in tone. Though i've seen a lot of creators make a second channel for such things because it apparently messes up their metrics even if most of their viewers enjoy them
My experience with queer acceptance and empathy was also totally different in Germany than in North America. I feel that, truly. ✨ Also, I love that lipstick colour! :)
After I was married I realized I was Non-Binary because one day I thought about how I identify myself vs. how I saw myself in the mirror. I don't mind being seen as more feminine since I was born female, but when I actually looked at myself, I felt like neither female, nor male, or both. Then I remembered other times as a child, and moments growing up where I felt that way before but never really got into it because I had a lot going on, and I was expected to do feminine things or be feminine because of what I was born with, etc. and a long time of that, I did abide by that, and didn't think about how I identified with it, until recently and I panicked. I still worry if I'm even Non-Binary enough, or if I'm doing anything right to be able to identify this way, etc. Thank goodness my husband and others have confirmed with me that what I feel is valid and that I don't need to prove anything to be where I am or how I identify with myself. I also identified with characters like Tin Man, Spock, Gandalf, Merida, Belle, etc. Usually, fictional characters were easier for me to relate to, but I heavily identified and inspired by Frida Kahlo because of her outright detachment from social norms and not really identifying with anything but with what she felt in the moment.
I really like this style of video, Marlene. It's interesting to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I think we get so caught up in being exactly perfectly right with language in queer spaces online because we are so excited to have found community at all. Then people forget that there are folks who are supportive but aren't steeped in the in-group speak. I liked hearing your perspective.
I think this was really cute, hearing personal anecdotes, especially set in different cultures is really nice. Also congrats on doing the very un-Anerican thing of acknowledging that maybe the limited perspective and experience of the world is not the only way of seeing it. (Sorry, that sounded very passive aggressive, but as a European who lived in the US I was constantly grated by how people there just assume that their world view is the only right one despite knowing jack about anything going on outside their state.)
Super interesting and thought provoking video, as always. I liked seeing you and your adorable husband :) I always want to hear from different types of people about their experiences, so yes, I'd like to see more videos like this, as long as you don't stop making your amazing Disney essays! This channel gives me a lot of joy.
despite this being more "here's my POV, to get the discussion started.", there are lots of queer wisdom pearls in here imo. idk tbqh; i can see where you're coming from & definitely agree in that sense. for example: my mom made it very clear that she'll always love me for me, as her precious child... but from my queer experience outside of my family in a small, red town in the bible-belt, i really wish i had these words that i only found sometime in my late teens online. i wish the progress we have now was commonplace back then; i had to describe myself as "bi" b/c that was the closest thing *_anyone_* there had any idea of, & i'm only talking about my peers here. that's not to even mention the absolute challenge of trying to relay/break down/explain my gender identity or asexuality to people who simply won't be in my life past the next few years. on the whole, i fully agree with the "intent matters most" points but i'm still a little torn i guess.
Such an interesting topic in the context of today's world. As a younger person, I was very out and expressive about my sexuality (1970's and 80's). I felt that if I wasn't out then I was somehow betraying myself or hiding and thought everyone should be out. It was a different time and being out seemed like even more a radical statement than today. As an older person, I care less about who knows and make decisions based on each individual situation. Being out or coming out all of the time can be exhausting. Sometimes you just want to be. I think being out or going stealth both provide a kind of freedom, and both have a price to pay. Sometimes it may be a decision that changes from day to day.
wow .... rant? no. I don't know when I've last seen a video, or heard a discussion, with so nuanced and accepting a view on of the various experiences of others as one explores the experience of oneself. Please keep thinking and sharing. Thank you.
Thank you, I really enjoyed this video!! It's true, everyone's experiences are unique. I'm not trans; I'm gay, but for the longest time I didn't even like calling myself that. I've never been attracted to the opposite gender, but I've always felt like I kind of defy labels. In the recent years I've embraced it a little more, going to gay bars, and even going to a Pride festival for the first time last year. It's important to remember even though we have our differences, we are all connected. PS: Btw, you and your husband are looking so lovely today! I love seeing you both together in your videos. It really warms my heart
I loved this sort of stream of consciousness about the q-u-eer community’s evolving relationship with words and labels. I’ve definitely seen small but growing parts of the community articulating and advocating for a broader acceptance of q-u-eer people having more personal and unique/abstract definitions for labels and language to describe their experiences. There seems to be a return toward the notion that for some people, their gender and their sexuality are very entwined and describing them together under one label of g-ay or q-u-eer. I think that the relatively recent mainstream reclamation of the word “q-u-eer” and its new meanings marked the beginning of that shift and I’m so excited to see how our language in the community will continue to grow.
For a long time, I struggled to recognize a lot of the more specific words used to describe queer experience as.. lesser, or stupid, because I didn't understand them? But talking to someone about my specific experience, they told me I described a neurogender almost word for word. I finally had a word to describe my identity exactly, which was wonderful. I no longer felt alone. But on the other side of the coin, only a very small percentage of the population knows what that means, so I can only have that identity existing within the bubble of the LGBT community, if that makes sense. Explaining caedogender to even someone within my family wouldn't go over well, as they could barely grasp the concept of me being nonbinary. But I hold that precious little word, that word that belongs to me, that describes me, and I am happy with that.
The whole stealth thing reminds me a bit of a thing an African-American comedian, who I sadly can't remember the name of, said about when he was doing a sitcom. That sitcom's goal was to be the antithesis to The Cosby Show (this was before all those women came out with their stories and the general perception of Cosby was as a wholesome guy). What he meant by that was that while TCS focused on the similarities, or universality, between the African-American family and the white-norm family, i.e. "Look, we all have these experiences and issues", their sitcom embraced the uniqueness of the African-American experience. If I recall correctly he put it like they didn't hide what made them black. And I remember that I thought "We need both!". We need both the stories that emphasises the universality of our experiences and our common humanity, and stories that emphasises what makes our experiences unique to fully understand it. And to help understand each others. I mean, it's kind of how learning works, isn't it? By comparing it to things we already know. How often haven't someone used "It's kind of like X but with Y instead of Z" to explain something? I am not saying that there is a 1:1 likeness of stealth and "acting white" for lack of a better term. Just saying that there are different experiences. Stealth, at least to my ears, sounds like the focus is on emphasising the female or male experience, while being openly trans is saying that "my experience as a man/woman is different from the norm because I had to discover that I was a man/woman since I wasn't assigned that gender at birth." Just an observation I wanted to add. Also wanted to say; I really liked the video, it was a nice format and an interesting companion piece to the usual work this channel makes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences :)
This video was lovely to listen to. As a younger queer person I find myself getting too caught up in labels, even at the detriment of my own experiences and transition, so it's nice to be able to hear something like this that lets me have a different perspective.
I can't speak to transness, I identify as just plain queer. For me I guess I live 'stealth' but it's only because I am a very private person. Anyone that I'm romantically interested in knows my interest and I guess I feel like if I'm not into someone then it's none of their business what I do/prefer sexually. When I was a youngun I wore shirts, went to conferences, had all the bumper stickers and buttons. Then as I aged I felt more nuanced in my sexuality than a button could accurately express. I would need a giant banner with all the buttons on it. Nowadays I don't feel right being at most pride events because I don't feel like Bud Light and Marlboro are part of my sexuality. But underground pride events (like the wonderful one held in NYC) I love going to and cry when I see pictures of all us beautiful creatures out there. That circle of queerness and the intersections of race and class- those are my people. I guess I no longer have my sexuality as my biggest thing, it's just one of many things. I've become more complex the older I get and I've accepted the complexity of others as well. I... don't know what my point overall is. I guess something you said sparked some thought in my old brain. Great video, thanks for making it!
I agree with pretty much everything you said in this video! Thank you so much for making it. I think it's really important to recognize the nuance in our experiences as a community, and to allow each other the grace to describe ourselves and exist in a way that suits our needs best. I like using the modern terms, but sometimes I do find that their definitions are too limited to accurately convey how I feel.
im a young queer person with quite an older dad (im not out yet) but i always believe that intent matters most but i try to educate with words as well, if he says something kind with slightly the wrong words i usually corect him but make sure he understands that his idea was good
This is a really interesting conversation, thanks for sharing your perspective! It's fascinating how language evolves but there will always be more nuance in how we use it versus what the definitions are on paper and in online/political discourse. I can kind of relate with what you said about how still identify with the word gay even though you are technically a straight trans woman. I'm aroace, but I feel very connected to the queer community and queer experience. I find myself wanting to say that I'm gay or queer or a lesbian even though I'm not really attracted to the same gender. It feels like I'm much closer to being a lesbian than a straight woman, that if I was gay I would be more accepted and closer in the queer community. I like the word queer because it's inclusive and feels, well, more queer than "just" aroace. But I don't openly say that I'm queer to people I don't know that well because it feels like I'm not allowed to claim that identity because of the policing of language and gatekeeping in the queer community. I don't really tell people I'm aroace either, only close friends or queer people I know decently well. I just find it hard to casually tell people, especially because I can't mention a girlfriend or something, it would have to be more direct. I guess this is similar to being stealth, but I don't mind people knowing if they ask or it comes up in conversation with people I trust.
I’ve come to understand my sexual and romantic identity as demirose over the last few years, and my partner we just discovered is aromatic. Still working on the gender identity demigirl so far, and we always wondered why our relationship seemed so different from other couples. It often felt alienating. Turns out we were never heteronormative or amatonormative. Having these words to describe ourselves and our relationship has been extremely impactful on us as people and as partners. I always had the right words to describe myself, but people still didn’t get it. I always felt chronically misunderstood. Now having an entire community that identifies like me helps a lot and seeing the variations in that community helps me to feel more confident in my expectations and experiences. Even the word queer platonic to describe my relationship is really a game changer. I’m happy that we have words to describe our experiences, and with all of the different experiences I have from others, it’s a relief to hear so many who don’t fit the labels exactly from so many different identities.
I love your videos and I was surprised/glad/crying when you come out as a trans woman I better more with some of my inner gender dysphoria since I felt a trans male and bigender at 8-14ish but I feel like a bigender and non-binary even though I identify as a gender-fluid female (a year ago) which I hope in a few weeks what my identify really is, and remember you're still beautiful and very loved.💕😌 - By one of your fans
3:04 I currently identify as nonbinary/ gender fluid, though my gender identity is something that I’m very much coming to terms with and learning to accept about myself, and the idea of just… having your gender not be a huge part of your life that you have to constantly think about is so foreign to me. Not that it isn’t a totally valid way to live your life or experience your gender, I think that people should do whatever makes them happy, I just don’t really think that’s really where I’m at right now
I've only watched a part of your video. But you can't expect to represent everyone. You represent your perspective. And you remember that your perspective is your's. Not THE perspective. Your's. And I think that's the best anyone can ask.
This debacle reminds me of the "latinx" debate, which all in all is about trying to make Spanish a more inclusive language. The thing is, I've never heard non-americans identify with the movement. Makes me feel like we should try to bring positivity and knowledge in other ways, like supporting Latin Americans by using Spanish in queer content more and supporting them when they come out, instead of trying to make a gendered language not gendered. "El," which translates to "he" in English, is pretty gender neutral as is.
There IS a debate, but "Latinx" isn't widely adopted by actual Spanish-speakers mainly because adding X instead of a vowel makes pronunciation confusing. "Latine" seems to be the word that is gaining traction, and English already HAD a gender-neutral form: "Latin" as in "Latin America" I'd disagree about "el" or "he" being actually gender-neutral. True, both have historically been used that way...but to use the masculine form as the same as neutral carries embedded assumptions. For example, when Ursula Le Guin wrote 'The Left Hand of Darkness', which is set in a world where humans don't have a permanent sex or gender, she used "he" as the pronoun because that was more frequently used as neutral at the time...and then was annoyed to discover that readers were seeing her characters as men, when they were not supposed to be either men or women, because of the combination of the pronoun and their being engaged in politics. I'd have to check with my family members for whom Spanish is their first language, but I suspect the same would be the case if you were calling individual people "el" (more so than referring to a group as "ellos").
This resonates with me being a bi ciswoman married to straight cisman. I have this odd regret that for all intents and purposes I am "living a straight life". I don't attend pride events because i can't help but feel more like an ally when in queer spaces. Also, loving your style! Not sure it's what ur going for but I'm picking up some bucolic vibes and it's just darling! 👒🌾 Also Johns smile is absolutely infectious! You two are so lucky to have each other! 💖
On the "impact over intent". I strongly agree with the quote regardless but i do feel it can and is used wrongly nonetheless. Impact over intent does not mean "Oh you did bad and are bad" and it doesnt mean "You need to stop doin bad before we will talk to you" or any similar sentiment. It is merely a clear aknowledgement of the harm bein done regardless of intent; which is meant to work on preventin such harm in the future. We can both aknowledge the potential harm of ones words while also bein thankful for their, if a bit misguided, kind words. Consider how a Black person can both be irked by and yet feel good from hearin some old white person who only knows the bigoted words sayin somethin meant to be kind but also havin the impact of dredgin up the things the bigoted words do. Will they correct this person? Thats entirely up to them to decide, but havin been there as a trans person; i tend to correct such folks while aknowledgin the kindness as well. I do this cuz i want to believe that ppl want to know when they cud be doin better bcuz ppl want to do better, when they can. If they dont know theyre not doin the best they can to be an ally, how can we expect them to be the best ally they can be? We dont drive folls away by gently correctin, we only do such when no longer believe someone wants to listen and learn. And folks who get things wrong often and dont get corrected; can look to others like ppl not wantin to listen amd learn. This is ofc much less impactful dependin on spec circumstances, but its true regardless. I know that as a person who once considered faerself to be an ally to many queer identities; i alwayd wanted to be corrected and informed so i cud do my best. Why not give others the same kindness?
As a non-queer (but still socially deviant in other ways) person that comes from a deeply homophobic country, I empathize a lot with the desire to just hear people say the words. One of the reasons I left my country was because of exhaustion with this sense of shame, fear, and titillation around things that are perfectly normal, and that I really wish were treated as such. When you told that anecdote about your neighbor, my first reaction was that same feeling of exhaustion, like, "Can we please just say the words already?" That said, I take you at your word that you were happy with the interaction as it was, and felt accepted and supported. And I agree that you can definitely say all the right words and still be disrespectful, bigoted, even abusive. There can be a lot of nuance in the spirit with which something is said. I just wanted to mention this other perspective. (Also, if I knew you personally I would also ask where you get your dresses -- love your sense of style!)
I think the problem with expecting people to come out isn't just limited to the trans community but to the LGBT community as a whole. I'm living in Japan and hoping to become a researcher. While there are a TON of queer folk in my field, academia is pretty conservative here and there are no discrimination protections for the LGBT community. Coming out could ruin my career, make it impossible to get a visa, and end up separating me from my partner as a result. This is why people will often remain closeted here. Shockingly, I've heard a lot of negativity about this from queer foreigners. In my honest opinion, coming out is a personal, and sometimes privileged, choice and choosing not to come out is valid. I see sexuality labels more as community labels. Different communities have different subcultures around them and growing up in one community, you kind of build parts of your identity around it. My partner is a non-binary lesbian because even though they aren't a woman, they grew up in that community and feel a special fondness towards the community. I think this used to be more acceptable before Mogai and that's why I sometimes have trouble feeling much of anything for Mogai. It's less about community and more about labeling, so it encourages this practice of policing gender and sexuality. But anyway, I think sometimes you have to meet people where they're at. I've learned this growing up and sometimes encountering genders and sexualities I've never heard of. We will all be there at some point and fumble a bit in the beginning. My parents have had trouble learning to call my partner by a singular "they". They aren't opposed to it, but just trying to get into the habit. I think as long as someone is open and willing to listen, it's worth being patient with them (if you have the spoons) and I've seen some surprising outcomes when people have been given the chance to grow.
For me, the bottom line is: Labels are supposed to be shorthands that serve you as a person. You can take them or leave them, change them, whatever. They are a tool for communication, but not something you HAVE to have or that you owe to others. I enjoyed this type of video very much! It was nice to hear you guys’s thoughts and feelings :D
I think so much of the way we talk online is intended to maximize both inclusivity and rigidness (ironically I'm pretty sure those are incompatible). I suspect the reason we have favoured rigidness is to make things less confusing for straight people. So (with the example of you being gay) the logic goes: a straight cis person may hear you say that and decide they may call other trans women attracted to men gay, which could make these women feel misgendered. So a lot of people I think fall back on there being a right answer, (I often call it the 'party line'*). This answer ends up being not so inclusive. So you end up with: trans women are women which means when they are attracted to men they are heterosexuals. But they are still in the same gay relationship they were in pre transition? Well that doesn't matter (we can't confuse cis straight ppl). And her gay partner? Well he must be bi or pan. So now to account for this idea that all these things can be quantified you have had to impose a (party approved) sexual orientation onto both these people! Another example is people insisting that bisexual and pansexual are totally (!!!) different things without anyone being able to tell you what either of them actually mean. tbc I'm not saying either bi or pan shouldn't exist or that they are exactly the same. what I'm saying is there is no rigid distinction it comes down to label preference. Which is fine! But we have to able to admit that a lot of this stuff is going to be subjective and difficult to explain or else we'll end up shooting ourselves in the foot. *(I call it this because I too am a member of the party. I want to tell people the correct things! People often ask me questions about being trans and queer and I want to be able to answer them with something that will make the rest of the party happy - not just my own personal opinion. So when people ask me what to call trans women who are attracted to men I am going to say straight. I don't think anyone would object to that. The issue comes when we can no longer admit to ourselves that reality is more complicated than that and individual experience ends up getting ignored.)
seeing this video really meant a lot to me because, I dunno why kind of queer I am or fit into. I was amab and Im dating a lovely girl and I wouldnt expressly use the terminology nonbinary or trans because it just doesnt feel right and theres nothing scarier than queer linguistics but....I know what I am. ish. just dont know what words could convey that quite to other people. I cant help but wonder if another understanding, from another culture or another time, could show other people who I am. Chomsky gonna have a field day when he hears about this. as my friend once put it to me, "you've never explained it to me, and you aren't obligated to, but we do talk about lesbians more than I talk about lesbians with lesbians" 💀 good video
Thank you for the video, Marlene and John! I am completely fine with someone not wanting to identify themselves as trans, especially at the current wave of transphobia in media. No queer person should be forced to be out against their will. It is about their lives and their decision to do so. But at the same time, I can see how important is to see trans (and queer) creators like yourself and their experiences. It inspires people to question themselves and be able to realize if they are queer too (it includes me coming to accept myself as a bi man). And it is also important to understand that, despite we having concepts and categories inside the queer community, nobody should force themselves to fit in. The queer expression will be different for each person. And about your sweet neighbor: the fact of she in her (supposedly) old age is willing to accept and respect you as a trans woman is very commendable, even if she does not know how to express herself using the current vocabulary.
I've been having a lot of gender developments lately. I'm a trans lesbian, and as my body shifts closer and closer to how I want it to be, I'm constructing and further developing my identity. I've noticed that as time goes on, I care less about labels and more about finding comfort in living my life. I call myself a woman, a girl, a boy, queer, trans, gay, and anything that seems to feel right. I guess I could maybe fit into some kind of flux or fluid identity, but I don't like either label for myself, so I'm really enjoying being able to just exist and call myself a girlfriend and a boyfriend and a f@gg*t and a d*ke and just be comfy. ALSO I LOVE YOUR VOICE AAAAAAAAAA
Yes, I fully agree that it is everybody's personal decision wether to be stealth or not. I was just wondering then, wether living fully stealth can be compatible with deeply satisfactory intimacy with a partner. And I am not talking about physical intamcy or sex. I am talking about w.otional and mental intimacy. In terms of a life partnership. Not even in a moralizing way of regarding what someone might think a partner might deserve in terms of honesty and full disclosure and openness. But just even in terms of having to evade certain topics. Or having to bend or distort reality and your past. I am wondering if this wouldnt prevent you from feeling completely at ease and free and authentic with your partner. Because your past is part of your life. And even if the past is painful, that pain is part of you and shaped you. So I think its just logistically very hard, if you are living together withbsomeone and trying to sahre everything, to keep that hidden from them, they might sense thst you are hiding something...but also it may keep someone from experiencing a partnership where they are fully seen andwelcomed and loved. The way they are, including their past. Again. Not saying that leads to an obligation. But I suspect this is a price that comes with that decision.
i think of my relationship with my boyfriend as gay even though I think from an outside perspective it would be seen as straight because I'm pretty female presenting nb, I almost lean into it more when I'm with him because I think it makes him come off as more masculine to other people which I hope helps with his gender dysphoria. When we are by ourselves gender is hardly a topic, we're just people who understand each other.
your discussions of still connecting with the term gay make me think of how i am not gay in a technical sense (aroace agender) but i still aim to be gay do crime
Would you be interested in seeing more videos like this? I had these thoughts that didn't fit my usual video format and I thought it could be interesting to try something different. This would not interrupt my current flow for video essays, vids like this would be in addition to them.
I would! I like your content a lot
Yes
Yes! I’d love to see more videos like this
This was really nice! I'd like more videos like this
Yes!
“live your life not the label” is beautiful
That phrase should be on a TShirt!
What a joke, this channel is ALL about labels. I'm a married gay man and could not be more confused about this gay guy who is now a 45 year old ww2 woman. What are you doing to your partner changing genders? My view is just as valid.
One of my fave Leslie Feinberg quotes:
“I care which pronoun is used, but people have been respectful to me with the wrong pronoun and disrespectful with the right one. It matters whether someone is using the pronoun as a bigot, or if they are trying to demonstrate respect.”
Exactly it's not just pronouns it's respect with the pronoun.
I love how John is just smiling in the background for a lot of the video, absolutely vibing, what a lad
All of John's little waving at the camera moments are cute, and I liked hearing from him about his thoughts on his own sexual identity and how the language he's used to talk about his identity have changed overtime. I'd love to hear more from him if he's open to it, but also if he'd rather not be super vulnerable on the internet I understand that. But it's honestly really cool to hear from an older queer person who has also used different language at different points in his life. It feels really liberatory to know that the language I use to talk about my identity can shift. There's this narrative sometimes that I hear that's kind of essentialist about how it's all about discovering your true identity and like there's some ultimate truth inside us that we're all working to discover and I'm sure that's true for some people and that's great, but for me I'm not sure there is an ultimate, correct identity label I just need to find. I'd rather use imperfect language and just let it shift and be fluid overtime, recognizing that the language I use to talk about my identity isn't as important as the life I'm living and the communities I'm a part of. Also your necklace is so pretty! This was a cool video and if you wanted to explore more of these reflections of queer culture (State of the Discourse, perhaps?), I'd be interested in that
Agreed, both about needing more John and how there is no deep true identity, because it's always changing. I think the belief there's a hidden truth comes from a wish to fully understand everything about oneself and that in doing so there'll be instructions on how to express that. Obviously nothing can tell you who you are so it's kinda a flawed logic. I deff relate to the need for identity tho
I find it frustrating that people jump from "impact over intent" to "intent doesn't matter". There are so many times where intent matters so much, like your friend who doesn't have the vocabulary but does have the love. When harm is done we need to address the harm first, but with building bridges and doing harm prevention, intent matters.
I love that her response to you being trans was that's great, I want that dress.
I'm nonbinary, and I wish I could be stealth. Being nonbinary isn't something I consider really important about who I am, but sadly there's no way for me to be stealth using they/them.
I believe, as difficult and shitty as it may feel some days, the work you are doing just by being visible will mean one day there will be ways to just exist as nonbinary. I hope that could provide some tiny bit of comfort on the bad days.
Yeah i have the same problem
I would like to be fully authentically myself without that automatically putting me in a spotlight.
@@NoiseDay Exactly.
I do wonder if this is part of why people assume this is a generational gap, because it's often nonbinary people who point out that sometimes being stealth is impossible, and nonbinary identity tends to be associated with younger generations
"Live your life not the label" is such a good quote. It sort of summarizes exactly what i would like to say. Every time I go online to look at queer content, i pretty much see the same exact vocab being used. And while certain terms can make communicating your feelings easier, it can also be quite limiting. Sometimes I felt like my feelings HAVE to align with a certain box or certain words and their meanings. But as you already said- every queer experience is different. And while it may overlap for some people, certain experiences are just different and the person might be comfortable just using common words to discribe that. Besides that I think that the queer experience in real life is often more diverse that what people talk about online. Language also plays a big role. But anyway, thank you for making this video - it really got me thinking about that topic. Im also from Germany btw hehe.
All the best wishes to you and John
I relate to this a lot. As a young adult who grew up in queer online spaces I knew about all the labels and different communities and while I was figuring out I was aroace, the one thing I wanted was to fit into one of those categories. I wanted a community and a flag and a culture. But that kind of pressured me to define myself through a label. Don’t get me wrong, I love that so many people find comfort in those communities, it’s just that there weren’t many people who just existed without labelling themselves so I thought that wasn’t an option.
Now I identify as somewhere between aroace (which is ultimately what I am) and labelless (which is what I’m mostly comfortable with). I think while figuring myself out I came to the conclusion that I just want to vibe and not care as much about living up to a label anymore.
And ye I’m also German lmao, thank you for this video
You’re in my neighborhood! This was such a sweet and nuanced video, thank you for sharing your experience 💕 labels describe us, they don’t define us. Language will only ever be what we make of it and it’s impossible to fully encapsulate the human experience with only words. Loved hearing both of your perspectives.
“Labels describe us, they don’t define us” is something that will stick with me, thank you!
I connected with the ideas in this video soooo much. There's a lot of...I don't wanna say "infighting" but I suppose disagreement in wlw spaces about words. In the mid 20th century "lesbian" meant any woman who loved women, then with women's lib and the beginnings of the modern gay rights movement in the 70s, bisexuality became more prominent as a term. and then we come to the 21st century and pansexuality arises to "replace" bisexual because the term was viewed by some as outdated. and mixed in with all of it was a lot of transphobic garbage weaseling its way in and out of the conversation (along with biphobic garbage, as you can tell by how the word bi has been debated so much), muddying what it meant to be in a community of women attracted to other women. part of me kinda longs for the simplicity of the past, not because I don't see the value in micro labels in finding oneself. But from a community building aspect, that individualism seems to only encourage young people (especially those online who haven't had the chance to discover irl community yet) to artificially create divisions that don't really exist, attempting to parse out and separate our experiences and struggles but not to reconcile our solve them collectively.
Thank you for this wlw-specific context, I really appreciate it!
I think this is a large reason why the term "Sapphic" has caught on so much. It allows for all these microlables to all coexist under a wider umbrella instead of creating division.
I have very complicated feelings on this. I’m a lesbian and a lot of my identity stems from my lack of attraction to men. I do feel a very deep connection to sapphics who are mspec but at the same time the distinction that the current definition of lesbian provides is important to me. I think if they world was different I would rather be able to have no label at all but that’a so hard in the world we’ve built. All of the infighting and division in the lgbtq community sucks for sure though. We should understand and respect our differences (especially applies to white lgbtq people acknowledging white privilege), but we also need to learn to see how we’re the same in many ways
Yes! Thank you! Exactly my thoughts! It also encourages this policing of gender and sexuality within the community, which is pretty bigoted imho.
I enjoyed this vlog style video, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them on your channel. I'm in my early 40s and identify as nonbinary. I remember being in college computer labs surfing the early internet and researching androgyny and seeing the description of "genderqueer" for the first time. I think there's some truth to the idea that the language on these topics is ever-evolving and it's possible that the state of language and the discourse affects how we feel about our own queerness. The philosophy of how interdependent language and thought are is fascinating.
I'm BIPOC and my parents are immigrants from what would be considered a homophobic/macho culture ( in large part due to the impacts of colonization and slavery). So, the impact vs intent section of the video resonated with me because of how my cultural experience relates to my queer experience. When I'm interacting with people from my culture, I meet people where they're at or I'm stealth so that I can still interact with my people. Losing my culture for my queerness or my queerness for my culture isn't worth it to me, so that's how I've been dealing with that. It means a lot to me when people don't use the "right" words but they're doing their best and being kind when they've been taught to react to someone like me with attempts at conversion therapy at best.
I regretted coming out as bi to some members of my family because I felt they used me as their Gay Friend excuse and a lot of that was because I felt to social pressure to Be Out, Live Your Truth, Set A Good Example, And The Only Way You Can Take Part In The Community Is To Be All The Way Out. That is a major thing, having to deal with internalized stigma saying I am not queer enough to access community if I am not Queer In This Specific Way.
Now that I am out as nonbinary professionally and socially, a major boundary I have with those family members is that there are parts of my life that don't concern them, and that's my sexuality and gender. If they can't deal with that it doesn't matter because it isn't their business. My mom spent 30 years commenting how pretty my long hair was and not picking up on how uncomfortable that made me, then finally figured out I was legitimately joyful when it was short. A term like gender euphoria would make her run for the hills, but she understands the vibe which was more than she did before.
Its sort of the way I treat my pronouns at work too. I use they/them and I correct people when they misspeak but my gender experiences don't effect how I get data from looking at rocks. It effected my education and my experience in the workplace because society is so obsessed with a binary and immutable experience of gender, but rocks are blessedly simple.
I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this topic.
As someone who (also) lives in Germany, I was just about to comment on language barriers and their influence on (self-)expression.
Sometimes the (English) dominated online discourse feels quite far away from my lived experience. It makes me think about how much language can distort perspective.
Ultimately, I feel that empathy might be more important than language (but German really needs gender-neutral pronouns).
Exactly i find it hard for me and to express myself and sometimes for others to speak about me in French for a similar reason. It's not just "you need gender neutral pronouns" but gender neutral conjugations as well. Even if I were to go by the more recent "iel" in French because there's not a gender neutral conjugation thingy I would have to use the masculine or feminine system. My teacher for a recent immersion program I did said that since masculine is the dominant one that it would likely be used for iel. While it does feel better than feminine on me it's not quite there. In addition iel can sound like "il" or "elle" depending on the person listening so with this in mind they might just end up using the feminine system anyways if they misheard.
Definitely. English is my first language so learning German completely opened up my world in terms of expressing myself and when I’m not doing RUclips, I speak more German than English in my life. I could make a whole video about the linguistic differences between the two, especially when I identified as non-binary, but this channel is supposed to be about Disney haha
I absolutely agree with you haha. I speak German, English and Russian and English just seems the most inclusive and genderneutral to me. German doesn't have "they/them" pronouns but in Russian (in addition to that) almost every verb is gendered. It just exhausts and frustrates me sometimes! On the other hand that can encourage us to get creative and find new ways to express ourselves with the language we're given.
@@DreamsoundsVideo as a queer German I would absolutely watch that video though
@@candicraveingcloude2822 the mishearing it as one of the gendered pronouns problem could probably also arise with German "sier" although that one is only one of the more common German neopronouns and not as agreed upon as "iel" is in French. To my knowledge it us a combination of "sie" and "er" (people, please correct me if I'm wrong!) and I think it sounds way too similar to "sie".
From an academic perspective I think this is why I really like qualitative research, interviews and surveys and stuff, because everyone has such unique and interesting stories and experiences. There is no one way to be trans or even to be stealth or closeted or whatever. I think we lose a lot when we cling too tightly to rigid definitions and tell everyone they need to fit neatly into one category or another. The reality is much more nuanced than that and it's beautiful
absolutely, and this feels lovely to hear! as someone who's "stealth" in that only the people who have to know im trans know im trans; it can be sometimes a little exhausting for other trans people i meet to assume i'm "closeted". i was closeted before i started my transition and i was a sad and miserable person then, and now i'm much more whole and happy with myself. that's not the same 'condition'. i'm living my truth now which is being a man (i'm a binary trans man), and i can't see how in any world that means i'm hiding my identity. i understand people who have transness be a huge part of their identity because it can be that, but the assumption that if you're not that, that means you're closeted, just seems pretty reductive.
this is especially frustrating as a straight trans man, since when i do try to participate in the conversation and go to queer events i'm often met with "i hate straight people" type comments which can feel really alienating in a group i already feel kind of alienated from. i think much like non-queer culture; queer culture needs to move away from generalizations and over-relying on labeling. it's okay to just let people be themselves and live the life they want to be, and they're not less queer for not fitting the box of being gay, gnc, nonbinary, and alt with blue hair and 12 piercings.
(and hey, i kept identifying with lesbian for awhile after i started transitioning and living as a man, too. i think that's pretty normal for many of us. for me, that ended up changing, but for lots of people it doesn't. and either way, you're fine, and that's fine!)
I thought your words were really insightful, and as someone who also has grown up on tumblr in a similar timeframe (I'm 26) I know exactly what you're talking about. Language can be so powerful for expressing ourselves and even changing the way we think about things. At the same time, it can also be policed to the point that some people feel like they are purposefully excluded from a broader narrative, or punished for semantic infractions. I do think we gotta trust ourselves and each other a bit more to take into account people's intent, lest we isolate ourselves on our moral high horse or whatever.
This conversation reminded me of something a trans girl I follow on tumblr recently expressed, which was basically that moving away from the term "transsexual" may have lost us a really beautiful idea, which is the idea that sex itself can be transformed and changed, instead of this modern concession that "oh no well my sex must be x but my gender is y", aka being a male woman or female man, which is simply not how a lot of us conceptualize ourselves and mostly serves as a "gotcha" moment for transphobes to make trans people uncomfortable by saying "well you're still [insert sex assigned at birth here]!". Not that this is trans people's fault really, but it definitely gave me some food for thought on how does it benefit us to ostracize trans people who refer to themselves as transsexual? And isn't there some power in that term?
Anyways, lovely vid as always, I enjoy this format and would like to see more :)
I grew up with the "you gotta go full stealth" culture. One of the reasons I delayed my transition was exactly because it turned out to be really hard to move away from everyone who knew me, and frustratingly video chats had become a thing. Then later I went mostly stealth as I wouldn't tell anyone new. I didn't want to keep explaining, nor did I want to be "the trans friend" or "the trans employee" or whatever. That was pretty miserable though since it meant I had to always talk around details of my past and keep parts of it secret as it would throw open new questions. It also was terrible since I lost track of who knew and who didn't. Some people forgot, others found out through common friends or at some point guessed because of the topics I seemed to know more about and be vocal about. Now I switched to be more open about it, since it can show others that they're not so alone and also can come to me about any queer topic.
As for using the right terms. It feels so strange seeing people treat words that were THE correct words in the past as if they were slurs. They weren't great, but it also doesn't need to have such a violent reaction to them. That said, even back then there were plenty of slurs that will still make me super uncomfortable. But yeah insisting on the right way to talk about things just makes it so you don't really talk about it, you're just sticking people back into boxes without any freedom of discovery
I loved the format! It's a very interesting video and great points were raised. I usually disagree with other queer people about word usage and other sort of "politically incorrect" problems that are so loudly vocally complained by the community. Here in Brazil, before the LGBTQ+ initialism was adopted, we had GLS, meaning gay, lesbian and simpatizers. Simpatizers held everyone else, be them trans, bi, or straight supporters. It obviously isn't a terribly inclusive initialism, however, it was a label that helped me get a sense of community before LGBTQ became the prevailing term. I don't think it's a bad term. It might be outdated because we now have a more inclusive one, but must it be scrubbed from existence? I don't think so.
Thank you for this comment, I had never heard about GLS before!
@@DreamsoundsVideo GLS has become a meme between gay people these last few years because of "oblivious" but well-meaning straight people using it instead of LGBTQ to talk about us. I myself usually say GLS all the time sort of as a joke, but I don't think it's a bad term. I can tell you more about my experience as a Brazilian gay if you ever need it for a video or just research :)
This was so fascinating! I just wanted to say that on the topic of stealth, I have been outed so many times by cis people who think that because I'm trans that means I don't have a right to keep that private and that I'm obligated to inform all the people around me as those I'm some kind of sex offender. Because of this, being stealth to me is finding freedom and fighting against the transphobia that told me I had to mark myself so no one could fall under the impression I was a real man.
On the other hand, many people find that being out and proud is liberating! For them it fights against the trans erasure in our society and against the shame they've been taught. It's different for everbody!
I recently changed my label from “bi” to “queer” publicly and it has definitely caused some controversy. My boss heard me refer to myself as queer and kind of had an outburst about how why is it okay for me to call myself that but if she refers to me as “a queer” that could get her fired etc etc. it’s been very difficult to try to describe to non-LGBT people the nuisances of us reclaiming queer and the discourse in the bi/pan community without completely reversing any respect I’ve gained from them in the years as a woman who likes all genders.
You've given me a lot to think about in this video. I think something that stood out to me in watching this and the anecdotes you were sharing - part of queerness as I have come to understand it is that it is messy. That part of human experience, sexuality and gender, is messy in a way that resists taxonomy. That there are new words to organize or anchor one's understanding of self in - that's helpful for a lot of people, for sure. They give you ways to see the possibility space and imagine yourself in it. But that old world of euphemisms (like "colleague") still created space for people to be. We did not invent queerness with our new terminologies. And that your identity as a woman doesn't necessarily cut you off from your past and affinity with gay men and gay community. A lot of people's understanding of gender makes them categorically incompatible, but that is not necessarily the case. It is just people's inability to hold the two together without somehow rendering one or the other illegitimate.
A little trans man here, I would like to introduce myself as a general man and not so much as trans because although I am very proud of my trans brothers and sister who fight for their rights I`m emotionally tired for many things (mental health problems usually) that I'm not emotionally prepared to add the struggle that is trans in every conversation. Sometimes I want to be Dakota without pressuring myself with anything, there are certain feminine things that I like like makeup that I love so much but that I don't feel brave to use because every time I go out with it becouse Im not passing (pass to refer to a trans person who does not see as trans for cis people) for people that is an affirmation that I am a woman when Im not. Thank you for making me feel confident about my personal take on being trans sometimes people just aren't ready or don't want to do it and that's okay, we need to be more understanding with the various parts of the community because in the end that's what we unite as a community in the frist place 🌻💛
"The fact that we're talking about the importance of words like this, doesn't mean that words have to be important." Yes, this! I feel that this exactly describes my own experiences. I realised I was queer in my very early twenties, and having the words to describe how I was feeling were earth-shattering to me. (I've described the feeling as some cosmic force ripping the roof from my apartment, pointing at my computer screen, and saying, "hey, that's you!") Now, though, I tend not to go into detail with all of the 'technical' words for how I am. Partially because I absolutely do not have the energy to explain it out to people -- but also simply because I don't care that much anymore. I finally feel like the wheels of my life have fallen onto the right path, and I trust how I feel in my gut more than the fluid nature of words. Not that they're not important, but importance, like anything else, can change over time.
(Also, I couldn't help but wave back at my screen every time John waved. 👋)
I want to start dating life again and I really struggle with deciding how I want to present myself on these websites. I am about to start HRT at the end of the year, but I have socially transitioned already a year ago. I absolutely call myself a trans woman all the time and it feels 95% correct. Just as my female name and pronouns seem to be fitting. But I still wonder if I should categorize myself as non-binary when it comes to dating coz I want to connect with people who feel comfortable with me being mid-transition with days when I somewhat pass and days where everyone just sees a man in me.
Interesting
Now I have NO dating experience whatsoever. And I’m not trans, or have much knowledge on being trans to boot. So take my advice with a grain of salt. But why not just say “Trans woman on HRT(hormone therapy)”?
That's an interesting dilemma. However awkward I would agree with the person above me. That's the clearest way to put everything about your body and how others perceive you on the table. Ofc, everything is case by case
I'm pretty early transition but I've met all of my girlfriends through HER or LEX. I hope you can do what's cozy!
If you're a trans woman you're a woman, it doesn't matter if you don't pass some days, that doesn't change anything. If you want to meet people who truly respect trans women, then you should be honest instead of saying nonbinary because that might lead to you meeting people who are less understanding of your gender
I strongly agree with what you've touched on in terms of trans experience and language. I would probably be called "stealth" by some - Im a genderqueer trans guy and I don't typically tell people I meet irl that Im trans. I don't want Jesse, The Guy Who Is Trans to be what people first think of when they think of me, I want to be seen as me without any asterisks. Im fine with being out to ppl if the moment calls for it, or if it comes up, but only if I trust that they're not gonna be weird about it.
I also live in a fairly rural, red leaning state in the US. Being out at work when most of my coworkers are heavily conservative? absolutely fkn not lmao.
Im also a man who wears nail polish and stud earrings so I am visibly quee.r to anyone in the know, but im not visibly *trans* by intentional design
just love that your downstairs neighbor basically said nice gender anyways where'd you get that dress
ive noticed some older folks shy away from using labels like gay or nonbinary or whatever, because they were raised that saying it out loud was wrong and may ruin someones reputation. at least thats what my mom says, even when she is supportive in most other ways aside from not using that nuanced language ive been used to with my peers. i assume your neighbor has a similar mindset. that being said, the taboo of saying those things must go!! its always helpful to, kindly, ask clarifying questions with their euphemism-filled stories by actually using the words they dance around.
I'm comfortable identifying as a trans man but I do not know how to pass and it's exhausting putting energy into being perceived as a guy only to realize that people don't see me that way. As much as it feels like I'm going backwards, it's less emotionally taxing going out perceived as a girl rather than feeling eyes on me trying to figure out my gender.
I should probably be saying "just be true to yourself" but honestly do whatever works for now. You know who you truly are. If your friends know, they know too, and that's what matters the most to me (passing would be nice though...)
Buy yourself the biggest, baddest Motörhead hoodie or vest you can find - then you’ll be too busy scaring the general population for them to notice.
I really enjoyed this thoughtful discussion. Nuance, and making space to acknowledge nuance and the 'stickiness' of some of thesr subjects is becoming antithetical to online queer discourse. Grey areas can feel uncomfortable. But we are the side that believes in spectrums, grey areas are inherently anti binary. I also fundamentally believe intention is the most important thing.
I had to think a lot about stealth once I got to a certain point in my transition - it was appealing. A certain safety, a different kind of danger but a way to maybe move beyond being defined as trans. And I certainly do not begrudge those that choose stealth- in this world, trans people should do whatever brings them joy and peace. But I couldn't find joy in secret. I found joy in pure honesty and ownership of my history. I also think with the way the world is ATM, trans people living in their truth is needed. I'd love to live in a world where we didn't need to be visible, didn't need to challenge societal expectations and where none of us had to think about gender at all really, but we are not there yet. I work to make that world so future trans people will not even need the concept of stealth.
All of this informs my work as a community artist, where my explicitly queer and trans art kind of outs me. It's all part of the work needed to protect the future.
Hey this really resonates hope its not to weird to ask if you mind sharing where you post your art?
Thank you for this video. It spoke to me a lot, as someone who came to terms with being trans 6 years ago yet am still trying to figure out how to most comfortably be myself. I had a slightly different trajectory than you in that I thought I was purely transfem, only comfortable with she/her, for most of that time, and have only recently embraced my non binary side, the side that sometimes prefers they/them and likes being a little androgynous. I felt so weird for going from only wanting to pass as a cis woman all the time to actually feeling happy about not visibly fitting into the binary sometimes. Both of these sides are still parts of me, I feel, and together they make an identity that I don't see commonalities with as much across the queer community. It can feel a little isolating, so it brings me comfort hearing about similar experiences.
I personally think gender as a construct is just too complex and personalized to be perfectly encapsulated by a given set of words deemed broadly acceptable. There are an infinite amount of ways to experience it that are going to be different for many. Descriptors can be useful shorthands but just don't always give the full picture.
The delightful delicacy of “then fuck ‘em, I mean, I don’t know.” You are so charming! And I love background John, just floating in and out of the shot with his lil smile.
But yes, the idea of anyone else dictating how you must display your experience is just another way of creating a box in which people feel they have to fit. It actually defeats the purpose of individual freedom. It does a disservice to any group when “all” is used in tandem with some defining feature, because that does a disservice to humans in general.
As for your sweet neighbour, I am of the belief that intent is most important, especially when one of the things I’ve been told as a queer person is that I’m supposed to demand patience from others. I find it strange not to offer patience in return. I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with taking opportunities to teach someone more inclusive words so they can maybe update the terminology of their views, but it shouldn’t be done forcefully or aggressively. If someone already behaves like an ally, then it’s likely offering to talk to them more about queer topics and terms will be met with a positive attitude in return. Even if they respond with something like “I’m too old to remember all the new terms,” then at least you won’t have put someone who means well in a spot where they had to become defensive. Because they owe you as much as you owe them, which is to say bluntly: nothing. Kindness is not a requirement, it’s a gift, so I don’t see why then anyone would ever want to shut down a show of kindness simply because the person giving it has a different vernacular.
You covered a lot in this, so I doubt I addressed all of it or even smoothly conveyed what I did address, but I did want to take you up on the offer to use the comments for discussion. Thanks.
Omg, John is so handsome.
This is a great video! I don't think your videos "exclude" or "leave out" other narratives, in fact I think you're really, really good at being inclusive and looking at the diversity of queer experience. For my own part, the vast majority of people I interact with just think I'm a straight cis man, but I'm queer, I'm bi, I'm nonbinary, but I don't really think of myself as in the closet, really, either, because it's less that I'm not telling these people but more that it's my business. Like, I'm perfectly happy that way, my partner knows what my deal is (I mean as much as I do), and my gender expression is very masculine, and again, I'm happy with it that way. And like, it's been useful because Ive worked in environments that weren't really queer-friendly and never really raised conflict, and was able to be an "ally" to queer students on a deeper level than just "I tolerate you" without that jeopardizing my job. I will admit that sometimes I feel a bit cut off from the rest of the queer community, but I know for my own purposes who I am, and that's what matters to me, so I guess I'm less "in the closet" and more "stealth?" Idk. And I think the "Tumblr social justice" method of policing language does some real damage to that sense of community that you're talking about. What's really important is like a sense of community, a sense that people are there to support and help and fight for each other.
Edit: also I love this format, it really worked for a chill, conversational video topic and having John around to be sweet on camera and offer little bits too was cool. You two are so cute together!
7:54 omg that little exchange of smiles is so cute! I personally am very into this video format- It feels very relaxed, is relaxing, and gives us the opportunity to hear just what you think about things and gives context to your perspective when you're making Disney-related content
I am super stealth to all the transphobes in the internet. XD
Turns out that the majority of them still doesnt recognize our flag even when you rub it into their face.
I've always hated the term stealth and how it's used as a dirty word. I'm transitioning because I AM a man not because I WANT to be a trans masc person. It's not stealth, it's not being a trap, it's being a man. Every other man gets that right. To take it from me or call it anything else sets me apart and denies me the right to be what I am. This is not an attack on anyone who wants to be called trans(insertgenderhere) or is trans masc or feminine. It is simply a statement of fact, you would not want me to insist on your gender or what you call your self or the place you hold in society. Don't do it to others. Other than that rant I enjoyed this video. I'm very happy for you, coming out is hard no matter the circumstance and I hope things are going your way.
Thank you for sharing this perspective. I totally understand and agree with your criticism about the term and it’s been interesting for me as a trans woman who has recently began passing in certain scenarios, being caught inbetween wanting my transness not be something that always precedes me being a woman, but also feeling like being born a cis woman wouldn’t be ideal for me and I enjoy being specifically a trans woman. I do think after reading your comment, though, I will rethink my usage of the word stealth in that way.
@@DreamsoundsVideo thanks for the reply, I've been watching your videos since the one you did on Ashman's work in the little mermaid I think. I've learned so much about music from your channel. Also thanks for considering what I said. I know quite a few trans people who, unlike myself who is just annoyed by it, consider stealth to be just as bad as calling someone a trap. I don't think it's that bad, but it can be really upsetting when said in a nasty way. It's been enlightening for to hear you talk about enjoying being specifically a trans woman.
Before I say anything else I want to say that you and John have been relationship goals for so long, but even more so during this video- I love that you two found each other and are supporting each other through everything. I want to find someone like that, and it’s nice to see a reminder that it can come from anywhere.
It isn’t entirely the focus but my current relationship with my own gender sort of smacks of your relationship with the term “gay.” I am flirting with the concept of being a demigirl or agender. I am sticking with demigirl because I don’t feel like I’m female, but I honestly have this weird, nebulous detachment to the whole gender process. I am fine with my she/her pronouns and presenting feminine and my birth name and the identity built around myself as a “cis woman.” But to me it’s personally sort of… worthless? I know that’s not the case for everyone or even most people, but I am currently torn between “you’re fine with all the female parts of your gender presentation, you’re a cis woman” and “you’re agender because deep in your bones you feel like your own gender is just… nothing” and “you’re a demigirl because you’re riding the weird line between cis woman and agender and you’re not looking to change any presentation”
I think John made the best point when he said the bit about “life, not label.” I ran through my head in circles about which label fits my situation but ultimately I should just live my life and enjoy my detachment to gender without stressing about finding a name for it and making everyone go by those labels. I’m happy where I’m at in my strange limbo state. I’m just going to be me and not worry about what the outsiders say.
I'm so happy to have discovered your channel recently and I'd love more videos like this. I feel like part of the beauty of queerness is we don't fit into traditional boxes and I am absolutely grateful to finally have some words like non binary or demi girl but none of them completely encapsulate who I am so I love seeing how others express themselves even under the same umbrellas.
I really enjoyed this video format. I think you should do more like it. I find your perspective really interesting and you allow for discussion as well.
I really loved this video. It's a revelation to hear that you can use the wrong words in the right way and that relentlessly correcting my family members is not necessarily the best way to move forward. Such a nuanced discussion that I really appreciated.
Also, I'm in love with your necklace and lip color.
Also also, your hubby is an absolute treasure. I would enjoy hearing more about his experiences if he is comfortable sharing.
there's something different and beautiful about seeing you walk and talk about these things outdoors, in nature, in public... all the love ❤
This was so refreshing to hear. My dad is incredibly conservative, yet I know that despite not having the language to properly communicate with me in my own realm of experience, he fully supports who I am. He continues to be one of the most supportive people in my life and no amount of modified language can match the impact that he has had on my life. He gives me hope that despite backgrounds, there can always be a link to understanding. There really is so much within people's psyche that we don't get to see and it's so unfortunate. There could be so much potential for bringing people together if we look just beneath the surface of the water
I agree with you. I feel like lately there's been a sort of simplification with the way we talk about queer experiences that can be clearly seen in the way younger people, like myself, judge older queer people for not "using the right terms". It goes without saying that we all can learn new stuff regardless of our ages, but we also have to acknowledge the different backgrounds everyone has.
My partner is non-binary and while they are very comfortable using they/them in english, since our native language is spanish, it takes us to a funny place where we both think is weird to use the neutral option "e" because it doesn't roll on the tongue so easily but we also want to make an impact and create visibility for non-binary folks. Of course sometimes the force of habit has us speaking with their old pronouns instead, or simply because is tiresome to explain to your 70 y.o granny what being non-binary is and she can understand "gay" or "lesbian" better. Since spanish is a very gendered language it's unavoidable to use some sort of gender indicator unless you want a super long sentence that avoids as many pronouns as possible... So I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone will speak within their cultural boundaries and, as you said, intent has to be important too, as much as we need to create spaces where we use language as a form of queer expression or political statements. Context matters
It’s so insane that trans people feel guilty about living their lives how they choose to simply because they’re not the perfect political “pawn” (not the right word, but the only one that comes to mind) for the community
I’ve always found your videos to be really… I’m looking for the right word, comforting? Like you’ve always been a nice reminder that there’s a world past the tiny hateful town I grew up in (small towns in East Texas aren’t really the height of exceptence), and as a young trans-non-binary person, that means a lot. I’m lucky enough to have incredibly supportive parents (although they’re still learning in some regards), I have a very dear friend who isn’t as lucky, and who’s parents seem to think if they keep ignoring him he’ll stop being queer. These videos are wonderful reminder that the world is bigger than that
Thank you for being incredible (sorry this was mushy and probably awkwardly worded)
I get you in that there's no one right way to be trans, there's no one right way to be ace.
Yes I am interested in more conversational videos like this, thank you! And I’m subscribing now that I’ve found you, tho you’re only going to be around for a few more months 😆 I totally love what you’re saying, in Germany they don’t have the same words to describe but you can tell her meaning and that she was coming from the right place, with kindness. And that’s what I try to do, just be loving and supportive of people. I am a straight and cys(sp?) woman who is clueless but trying. I’ve got three kids, and one has been saying they’re trans and non binary so that was my intro to this world. I’m trying to learn and be understanding and patient.
John vibing in the background in the beginning just has great energy. A joy to have him here
I loved this "vlog", the atmosphere was gentle and relaxed. And John just vibing plus the greenery was calming and cute. I agreed with his words and your general speech.
Hi, let me start by saying, I’ve just found you and this is my first time watching a trans creator to my knowledge. I think identify as a straight male, but in the past I’ve been on dates with other guys, and even kissed them. I’ve experimented trying to wear makeup to express myself and wearing feminine clothes. I think I’ve always wanted to try these things, as my father had shared an experience or two with drag of his own and this may have always made me curious. Or maybe he understood I was exactly whatever I am and left the options open, I’m not sure, but I do know I had something to get off my chest about dressing all pretty and making my face look pretty, but I don’t think that’s the point of the trans experience after hearing you speak. I really want to learn more and I just think you’re really quite amazing for powering through all these thoughts and concepts. You seem really well spoken and I was able to follow along with everything you said and I’m sort of really emotional about the connections you’ve made in my mind and I just want to thank you for letting me in and letting me hear your thoughts. I had no idea and you’re so similar to me in so many ways, I’m just sort of really embarrassed to admit I was so unaware. I think when Jon spoke about his experience about covering up how he was until his mid twenties sort of really spoke to me. I think you guys are wonderful and I want to thank you for sharing yourselves for everyone to see, that’s terrifying and I hate commenting because of it. I love you guys for existing, it makes me really happy actually.
I'm trans but I almost never refer to myself as that online because I don't want people to expect representation or a specific queer experience from me. The idea of queerness is very americanized thanks to sites like tumblr and the diveristy of experiences and expressions that can happen in different places of the world are often taken as invalid or traditional.
I want to be stealth not because I'm ashamed, but becuase I just am this. The lgbt community is obssessed lately with labels and, as you said, I'm tired to see people use the right words to say bad things and watching others despise people that may not have the correct (and very location based) language, but have the best intentions.
Honestly, I really enjoyed this video! I'd definitely enjoy seeing more of this kind of content, if you are looking to continue this kind of thing. i like the "casual talks" just as much as the "immensely reseached video essays".
I like videos like this where it's more conversational in tone. Though i've seen a lot of creators make a second channel for such things because it apparently messes up their metrics even if most of their viewers enjoy them
My experience with queer acceptance and empathy was also totally different in Germany than in North America. I feel that, truly. ✨ Also, I love that lipstick colour! :)
thank you for this video. Big fan of your work and this one's my fav so far. :) .
After I was married I realized I was Non-Binary because one day I thought about how I identify myself vs. how I saw myself in the mirror. I don't mind being seen as more feminine since I was born female, but when I actually looked at myself, I felt like neither female, nor male, or both. Then I remembered other times as a child, and moments growing up where I felt that way before but never really got into it because I had a lot going on, and I was expected to do feminine things or be feminine because of what I was born with, etc. and a long time of that, I did abide by that, and didn't think about how I identified with it, until recently and I panicked. I still worry if I'm even Non-Binary enough, or if I'm doing anything right to be able to identify this way, etc. Thank goodness my husband and others have confirmed with me that what I feel is valid and that I don't need to prove anything to be where I am or how I identify with myself.
I also identified with characters like Tin Man, Spock, Gandalf, Merida, Belle, etc. Usually, fictional characters were easier for me to relate to, but I heavily identified and inspired by Frida Kahlo because of her outright detachment from social norms and not really identifying with anything but with what she felt in the moment.
I really like this style of video, Marlene. It's interesting to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I think we get so caught up in being exactly perfectly right with language in queer spaces online because we are so excited to have found community at all. Then people forget that there are folks who are supportive but aren't steeped in the in-group speak. I liked hearing your perspective.
your hat is so cute aaaaaaaaaa
I think this was really cute, hearing personal anecdotes, especially set in different cultures is really nice. Also congrats on doing the very un-Anerican thing of acknowledging that maybe the limited perspective and experience of the world is not the only way of seeing it. (Sorry, that sounded very passive aggressive, but as a European who lived in the US I was constantly grated by how people there just assume that their world view is the only right one despite knowing jack about anything going on outside their state.)
Super interesting and thought provoking video, as always. I liked seeing you and your adorable husband :) I always want to hear from different types of people about their experiences, so yes, I'd like to see more videos like this, as long as you don't stop making your amazing Disney essays! This channel gives me a lot of joy.
despite this being more "here's my POV, to get the discussion started.", there are lots of queer wisdom pearls in here imo. idk tbqh; i can see where you're coming from & definitely agree in that sense. for example: my mom made it very clear that she'll always love me for me, as her precious child... but from my queer experience outside of my family in a small, red town in the bible-belt, i really wish i had these words that i only found sometime in my late teens online. i wish the progress we have now was commonplace back then; i had to describe myself as "bi" b/c that was the closest thing *_anyone_* there had any idea of, & i'm only talking about my peers here. that's not to even mention the absolute challenge of trying to relay/break down/explain my gender identity or asexuality to people who simply won't be in my life past the next few years. on the whole, i fully agree with the "intent matters most" points but i'm still a little torn i guess.
Such an interesting topic in the context of today's world. As a younger person, I was very out and expressive about my sexuality (1970's and 80's). I felt that if I wasn't out then I was somehow betraying myself or hiding and thought everyone should be out. It was a different time and being out seemed like even more a radical statement than today. As an older person, I care less about who knows and make decisions based on each individual situation. Being out or coming out all of the time can be exhausting. Sometimes you just want to be. I think being out or going stealth both provide a kind of freedom, and both have a price to pay. Sometimes it may be a decision that changes from day to day.
wow .... rant? no. I don't know when I've last seen a video, or heard a discussion, with so nuanced and accepting a view on of the various experiences of others as one explores the experience of oneself. Please keep thinking and sharing. Thank you.
Thank you, I really enjoyed this video!! It's true, everyone's experiences are unique. I'm not trans; I'm gay, but for the longest time I didn't even like calling myself that. I've never been attracted to the opposite gender, but I've always felt like I kind of defy labels. In the recent years I've embraced it a little more, going to gay bars, and even going to a Pride festival for the first time last year. It's important to remember even though we have our differences, we are all connected.
PS: Btw, you and your husband are looking so lovely today! I love seeing you both together in your videos. It really warms my heart
I loved this sort of stream of consciousness about the q-u-eer community’s evolving relationship with words and labels. I’ve definitely seen small but growing parts of the community articulating and advocating for a broader acceptance of q-u-eer people having more personal and unique/abstract definitions for labels and language to describe their experiences. There seems to be a return toward the notion that for some people, their gender and their sexuality are very entwined and describing them together under one label of g-ay or q-u-eer. I think that the relatively recent mainstream reclamation of the word “q-u-eer” and its new meanings marked the beginning of that shift and I’m so excited to see how our language in the community will continue to grow.
John is so cute in this videa!
For a long time, I struggled to recognize a lot of the more specific words used to describe queer experience as.. lesser, or stupid, because I didn't understand them? But talking to someone about my specific experience, they told me I described a neurogender almost word for word. I finally had a word to describe my identity exactly, which was wonderful. I no longer felt alone. But on the other side of the coin, only a very small percentage of the population knows what that means, so I can only have that identity existing within the bubble of the LGBT community, if that makes sense. Explaining caedogender to even someone within my family wouldn't go over well, as they could barely grasp the concept of me being nonbinary. But I hold that precious little word, that word that belongs to me, that describes me, and I am happy with that.
The whole stealth thing reminds me a bit of a thing an African-American comedian, who I sadly can't remember the name of, said about when he was doing a sitcom. That sitcom's goal was to be the antithesis to The Cosby Show (this was before all those women came out with their stories and the general perception of Cosby was as a wholesome guy). What he meant by that was that while TCS focused on the similarities, or universality, between the African-American family and the white-norm family, i.e. "Look, we all have these experiences and issues", their sitcom embraced the uniqueness of the African-American experience. If I recall correctly he put it like they didn't hide what made them black.
And I remember that I thought "We need both!". We need both the stories that emphasises the universality of our experiences and our common humanity, and stories that emphasises what makes our experiences unique to fully understand it. And to help understand each others.
I mean, it's kind of how learning works, isn't it? By comparing it to things we already know. How often haven't someone used "It's kind of like X but with Y instead of Z" to explain something?
I am not saying that there is a 1:1 likeness of stealth and "acting white" for lack of a better term. Just saying that there are different experiences. Stealth, at least to my ears, sounds like the focus is on emphasising the female or male experience, while being openly trans is saying that "my experience as a man/woman is different from the norm because I had to discover that I was a man/woman since I wasn't assigned that gender at birth."
Just an observation I wanted to add.
Also wanted to say; I really liked the video, it was a nice format and an interesting companion piece to the usual work this channel makes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences :)
I'm a cis man from Brazil and I love when you share stories like this of the neighbor.
This video was lovely to listen to. As a younger queer person I find myself getting too caught up in labels, even at the detriment of my own experiences and transition, so it's nice to be able to hear something like this that lets me have a different perspective.
I can't speak to transness, I identify as just plain queer. For me I guess I live 'stealth' but it's only because I am a very private person. Anyone that I'm romantically interested in knows my interest and I guess I feel like if I'm not into someone then it's none of their business what I do/prefer sexually. When I was a youngun I wore shirts, went to conferences, had all the bumper stickers and buttons. Then as I aged I felt more nuanced in my sexuality than a button could accurately express. I would need a giant banner with all the buttons on it.
Nowadays I don't feel right being at most pride events because I don't feel like Bud Light and Marlboro are part of my sexuality. But underground pride events (like the wonderful one held in NYC) I love going to and cry when I see pictures of all us beautiful creatures out there. That circle of queerness and the intersections of race and class- those are my people.
I guess I no longer have my sexuality as my biggest thing, it's just one of many things. I've become more complex the older I get and I've accepted the complexity of others as well.
I... don't know what my point overall is. I guess something you said sparked some thought in my old brain. Great video, thanks for making it!
I agree with pretty much everything you said in this video! Thank you so much for making it. I think it's really important to recognize the nuance in our experiences as a community, and to allow each other the grace to describe ourselves and exist in a way that suits our needs best. I like using the modern terms, but sometimes I do find that their definitions are too limited to accurately convey how I feel.
im a young queer person with quite an older dad (im not out yet) but i always believe that intent matters most but i try to educate with words as well, if he says something kind with slightly the wrong words i usually corect him but make sure he understands that his idea was good
This is a really interesting conversation, thanks for sharing your perspective! It's fascinating how language evolves but there will always be more nuance in how we use it versus what the definitions are on paper and in online/political discourse.
I can kind of relate with what you said about how still identify with the word gay even though you are technically a straight trans woman. I'm aroace, but I feel very connected to the queer community and queer experience. I find myself wanting to say that I'm gay or queer or a lesbian even though I'm not really attracted to the same gender. It feels like I'm much closer to being a lesbian than a straight woman, that if I was gay I would be more accepted and closer in the queer community.
I like the word queer because it's inclusive and feels, well, more queer than "just" aroace. But I don't openly say that I'm queer to people I don't know that well because it feels like I'm not allowed to claim that identity because of the policing of language and gatekeeping in the queer community. I don't really tell people I'm aroace either, only close friends or queer people I know decently well. I just find it hard to casually tell people, especially because I can't mention a girlfriend or something, it would have to be more direct. I guess this is similar to being stealth, but I don't mind people knowing if they ask or it comes up in conversation with people I trust.
I’ve come to understand my sexual and romantic identity as demirose over the last few years, and my partner we just discovered is aromatic. Still working on the gender identity demigirl so far, and we always wondered why our relationship seemed so different from other couples. It often felt alienating. Turns out we were never heteronormative or amatonormative. Having these words to describe ourselves and our relationship has been extremely impactful on us as people and as partners.
I always had the right words to describe myself, but people still didn’t get it. I always felt chronically misunderstood. Now having an entire community that identifies like me helps a lot and seeing the variations in that community helps me to feel more confident in my expectations and experiences. Even the word queer platonic to describe my relationship is really a game changer.
I’m happy that we have words to describe our experiences, and with all of the different experiences I have from others, it’s a relief to hear so many who don’t fit the labels exactly from so many different identities.
I love your videos and I was surprised/glad/crying when you come out as a trans woman I better more with some of my inner gender dysphoria since I felt a trans male and bigender at 8-14ish but I feel like a bigender and non-binary even though I identify as a gender-fluid female (a year ago) which I hope in a few weeks what my identify really is, and remember you're still beautiful and very loved.💕😌
- By one of your fans
There's also a lot of trans men who still identify with the word l3sbian so yeah you're not alone
3:04 I currently identify as nonbinary/ gender fluid, though my gender identity is something that I’m very much coming to terms with and learning to accept about myself, and the idea of just… having your gender not be a huge part of your life that you have to constantly think about is so foreign to me. Not that it isn’t a totally valid way to live your life or experience your gender, I think that people should do whatever makes them happy, I just don’t really think that’s really where I’m at right now
I've only watched a part of your video. But you can't expect to represent everyone. You represent your perspective. And you remember that your perspective is your's. Not THE perspective. Your's. And I think that's the best anyone can ask.
This debacle reminds me of the "latinx" debate, which all in all is about trying to make Spanish a more inclusive language. The thing is, I've never heard non-americans identify with the movement. Makes me feel like we should try to bring positivity and knowledge in other ways, like supporting Latin Americans by using Spanish in queer content more and supporting them when they come out, instead of trying to make a gendered language not gendered. "El," which translates to "he" in English, is pretty gender neutral as is.
There IS a debate, but "Latinx" isn't widely adopted by actual Spanish-speakers mainly because adding X instead of a vowel makes pronunciation confusing. "Latine" seems to be the word that is gaining traction, and English already HAD a gender-neutral form: "Latin" as in "Latin America"
I'd disagree about "el" or "he" being actually gender-neutral. True, both have historically been used that way...but to use the masculine form as the same as neutral carries embedded assumptions. For example, when Ursula Le Guin wrote 'The Left Hand of Darkness', which is set in a world where humans don't have a permanent sex or gender, she used "he" as the pronoun because that was more frequently used as neutral at the time...and then was annoyed to discover that readers were seeing her characters as men, when they were not supposed to be either men or women, because of the combination of the pronoun and their being engaged in politics. I'd have to check with my family members for whom Spanish is their first language, but I suspect the same would be the case if you were calling individual people "el" (more so than referring to a group as "ellos").
This resonates with me being a bi ciswoman married to straight cisman. I have this odd regret that for all intents and purposes I am "living a straight life". I don't attend pride events because i can't help but feel more like an ally when in queer spaces.
Also, loving your style! Not sure it's what ur going for but I'm picking up some bucolic vibes and it's just darling! 👒🌾 Also Johns smile is absolutely infectious! You two are so lucky to have each other! 💖
On the "impact over intent". I strongly agree with the quote regardless but i do feel it can and is used wrongly nonetheless. Impact over intent does not mean "Oh you did bad and are bad" and it doesnt mean "You need to stop doin bad before we will talk to you" or any similar sentiment.
It is merely a clear aknowledgement of the harm bein done regardless of intent; which is meant to work on preventin such harm in the future. We can both aknowledge the potential harm of ones words while also bein thankful for their, if a bit misguided, kind words.
Consider how a Black person can both be irked by and yet feel good from hearin some old white person who only knows the bigoted words sayin somethin meant to be kind but also havin the impact of dredgin up the things the bigoted words do. Will they correct this person? Thats entirely up to them to decide, but havin been there as a trans person; i tend to correct such folks while aknowledgin the kindness as well.
I do this cuz i want to believe that ppl want to know when they cud be doin better bcuz ppl want to do better, when they can. If they dont know theyre not doin the best they can to be an ally, how can we expect them to be the best ally they can be? We dont drive folls away by gently correctin, we only do such when no longer believe someone wants to listen and learn.
And folks who get things wrong often and dont get corrected; can look to others like ppl not wantin to listen amd learn. This is ofc much less impactful dependin on spec circumstances, but its true regardless.
I know that as a person who once considered faerself to be an ally to many queer identities; i alwayd wanted to be corrected and informed so i cud do my best. Why not give others the same kindness?
As a non-queer (but still socially deviant in other ways) person that comes from a deeply homophobic country, I empathize a lot with the desire to just hear people say the words. One of the reasons I left my country was because of exhaustion with this sense of shame, fear, and titillation around things that are perfectly normal, and that I really wish were treated as such. When you told that anecdote about your neighbor, my first reaction was that same feeling of exhaustion, like, "Can we please just say the words already?"
That said, I take you at your word that you were happy with the interaction as it was, and felt accepted and supported. And I agree that you can definitely say all the right words and still be disrespectful, bigoted, even abusive. There can be a lot of nuance in the spirit with which something is said. I just wanted to mention this other perspective. (Also, if I knew you personally I would also ask where you get your dresses -- love your sense of style!)
Punchline of the dress story was walking away from john lmao
I think the problem with expecting people to come out isn't just limited to the trans community but to the LGBT community as a whole. I'm living in Japan and hoping to become a researcher. While there are a TON of queer folk in my field, academia is pretty conservative here and there are no discrimination protections for the LGBT community. Coming out could ruin my career, make it impossible to get a visa, and end up separating me from my partner as a result. This is why people will often remain closeted here. Shockingly, I've heard a lot of negativity about this from queer foreigners. In my honest opinion, coming out is a personal, and sometimes privileged, choice and choosing not to come out is valid.
I see sexuality labels more as community labels. Different communities have different subcultures around them and growing up in one community, you kind of build parts of your identity around it. My partner is a non-binary lesbian because even though they aren't a woman, they grew up in that community and feel a special fondness towards the community. I think this used to be more acceptable before Mogai and that's why I sometimes have trouble feeling much of anything for Mogai. It's less about community and more about labeling, so it encourages this practice of policing gender and sexuality.
But anyway, I think sometimes you have to meet people where they're at. I've learned this growing up and sometimes encountering genders and sexualities I've never heard of. We will all be there at some point and fumble a bit in the beginning. My parents have had trouble learning to call my partner by a singular "they". They aren't opposed to it, but just trying to get into the habit. I think as long as someone is open and willing to listen, it's worth being patient with them (if you have the spoons) and I've seen some surprising outcomes when people have been given the chance to grow.
Got here so early, no one has had time to finish the video :)
For me, the bottom line is: Labels are supposed to be shorthands that serve you as a person. You can take them or leave them, change them, whatever. They are a tool for communication, but not something you HAVE to have or that you owe to others.
I enjoyed this type of video very much! It was nice to hear you guys’s thoughts and feelings :D
Love this video! The setting was so calming and "enchanting" ; ) 💖💖💖
I think so much of the way we talk online is intended to maximize both inclusivity and rigidness (ironically I'm pretty sure those are incompatible). I suspect the reason we have favoured rigidness is to make things less confusing for straight people.
So (with the example of you being gay) the logic goes: a straight cis person may hear you say that and decide they may call other trans women attracted to men gay, which could make these women feel misgendered. So a lot of people I think fall back on there being a right answer, (I often call it the 'party line'*). This answer ends up being not so inclusive.
So you end up with: trans women are women which means when they are attracted to men they are heterosexuals. But they are still in the same gay relationship they were in pre transition? Well that doesn't matter (we can't confuse cis straight ppl). And her gay partner? Well he must be bi or pan.
So now to account for this idea that all these things can be quantified you have had to impose a (party approved) sexual orientation onto both these people!
Another example is people insisting that bisexual and pansexual are totally (!!!) different things without anyone being able to tell you what either of them actually mean.
tbc I'm not saying either bi or pan shouldn't exist or that they are exactly the same. what I'm saying is there is no rigid distinction it comes down to label preference.
Which is fine! But we have to able to admit that a lot of this stuff is going to be subjective and difficult to explain or else we'll end up shooting ourselves in the foot.
*(I call it this because I too am a member of the party. I want to tell people the correct things! People often ask me questions about being trans and queer and I want to be able to answer them with something that will make the rest of the party happy - not just my own personal opinion. So when people ask me what to call trans women who are attracted to men I am going to say straight. I don't think anyone would object to that. The issue comes when we can no longer admit to ourselves that reality is more complicated than that and individual experience ends up getting ignored.)
I just found your channel and your voice is so soothing, so to actually see your face brought me joy🥹❤️🫶🏽
seeing this video really meant a lot to me because, I dunno why kind of queer I am or fit into. I was amab and Im dating a lovely girl and I wouldnt expressly use the terminology nonbinary or trans because it just doesnt feel right and theres nothing scarier than queer linguistics but....I know what I am. ish. just dont know what words could convey that quite to other people. I cant help but wonder if another understanding, from another culture or another time, could show other people who I am. Chomsky gonna have a field day when he hears about this. as my friend once put it to me, "you've never explained it to me, and you aren't obligated to, but we do talk about lesbians more than I talk about lesbians with lesbians" 💀 good video
Thank you for the video, Marlene and John!
I am completely fine with someone not wanting to identify themselves as trans, especially at the current wave of transphobia in media. No queer person should be forced to be out against their will. It is about their lives and their decision to do so. But at the same time, I can see how important is to see trans (and queer) creators like yourself and their experiences. It inspires people to question themselves and be able to realize if they are queer too (it includes me coming to accept myself as a bi man). And it is also important to understand that, despite we having concepts and categories inside the queer community, nobody should force themselves to fit in. The queer expression will be different for each person.
And about your sweet neighbor: the fact of she in her (supposedly) old age is willing to accept and respect you as a trans woman is very commendable, even if she does not know how to express herself using the current vocabulary.
everything aside i actually love your dressing style! it has a very old school vibe. its cute.
I've been having a lot of gender developments lately. I'm a trans lesbian, and as my body shifts closer and closer to how I want it to be, I'm constructing and further developing my identity. I've noticed that as time goes on, I care less about labels and more about finding comfort in living my life. I call myself a woman, a girl, a boy, queer, trans, gay, and anything that seems to feel right. I guess I could maybe fit into some kind of flux or fluid identity, but I don't like either label for myself, so I'm really enjoying being able to just exist and call myself a girlfriend and a boyfriend and a f@gg*t and a d*ke and just be comfy. ALSO I LOVE YOUR VOICE AAAAAAAAAA
Yes, I fully agree that it is everybody's personal decision wether to be stealth or not.
I was just wondering then, wether living fully stealth can be compatible with deeply satisfactory intimacy with a partner. And I am not talking about physical intamcy or sex. I am talking about w.otional and mental intimacy. In terms of a life partnership. Not even in a moralizing way of regarding what someone might think a partner might deserve in terms of honesty and full disclosure and openness. But just even in terms of having to evade certain topics. Or having to bend or distort reality and your past. I am wondering if this wouldnt prevent you from feeling completely at ease and free and authentic with your partner. Because your past is part of your life. And even if the past is painful, that pain is part of you and shaped you. So I think its just logistically very hard, if you are living together withbsomeone and trying to sahre everything, to keep that hidden from them, they might sense thst you are hiding something...but also it may keep someone from experiencing a partnership where they are fully seen andwelcomed and loved. The way they are, including their past. Again. Not saying that leads to an obligation. But I suspect this is a price that comes with that decision.
i think of my relationship with my boyfriend as gay even though I think from an outside perspective it would be seen as straight because I'm pretty female presenting nb, I almost lean into it more when I'm with him because I think it makes him come off as more masculine to other people which I hope helps with his gender dysphoria. When we are by ourselves gender is hardly a topic, we're just people who understand each other.
that guy has a great santa beard.
your discussions of still connecting with the term gay make me think of how i am not gay in a technical sense (aroace agender) but i still aim to be gay do crime