Inside a clever Honeywell boiler wiring centre and a 3-way valve.
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- This unit is pure, simple genius. It's been around for a long time and has taken the complexity of wiring up traditional heating systems away completely, by providing a clearly marked set of terminals that results in very easy and neat wiring of heating systems.
The simplicity hides the fact that someone basically solved a complex wiring puzzle that allows well spaced connectors to be mounted on a simple single sided PCB. I bet they spent a lot of time doodling on a notepad and trying lots of combinations until they got it perfect.
It reminds me of a custom wiring PCB used by Unusual Rigging in a Disney attraction - that simplified wiring of computer controlled hoists, and also gave a lot of useful diagnostic indicator LEDs and test points for troubleshooting.
In the video I also dismantle and reverse engineer a three way valve as used with the wiring centre to show why it simplified the connections in a system that cut component costs by achieving a lot with a small number of components using devious trickery.
For more info on these systems, check out John Wards video on the Y-plan wiring system:-
• Central Heating Electr...
John also has other videos covering the wiring of different heating systems.
The Honeywell wiring centre should prove an inspiration for use of custom marshalling PCBs in other applications. It's a simple concept that saves a lot of time when wiring equipment, and allows for easier troubleshooting and onboard diagnostics. (LEDs to confirm presence of power rails, show signals and indicate tripped protective devices.)
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of RUclips's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. 
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Using that diode and those resistors to keep the motor in a reduced, half wave voltage stall tuned to exactly counteract the spring force, is sheer brilliance!
Hats off to those guys for keeping it simple and reliable.
YES! ...next retrofit challenge is a drop-in, solid state, 100% optical replacement for those micro switches.
@@racitup4114 LOL! True!
I had about five night lights plugged into outlets in my hallways before LEDs that drew about four W a piece, and were practically useless unless I had to drunk-walk to the wrong bathroom in the middle of the night to take a whizz.
I'll take seven W on an irregular basis over all the other things every day.
I don't think it's all that finely tuned, it's just feeding it with DC so it acts kind of like a stepper that's not being stepped.
@ettlz Yeah, I've had the same thing. IMO these valves are overpriced garbage as reliable as a chocolate teapot.
Also the engineer in me hates that the at rest position has the HW outlet open which can allow the heating loop to convect heat out of the HW tank.
We get "standby shamed" for a couple of bits of consumer electronics with a 1 watt standby power but these are far worse. Edit: I guess it's only when you want to heat the house so not quite that bad, just a bit lees efficient that the main heat source.
I much prefer using 2 x 2 port valves, then you can use the manual open on a failed actuator and let the other enable the boiler so you still get HW and some heating if you have either actuator fail.
You used to be able to get ones that motored until cutting of completely in the required position and so having none of the above issues, no longer it seems.
Now thankfully history for me having just gone combi, just hope I'm lucky with the combi boiler! I'm hopeful - the one I have has stainless heat exchangers.
Honeywell has some very clever stuff. When we installed a new heat pump, the manufacturer called for an 8-wire thermostat connection. In our home, all the wire is buried behind walls and replacing our 7-wire cable would have been a real job, given the wire path between floors. No matter--the installer turned to a 2-wire thermostat that talks to a controller down on the heat pump. Has all sorts of options; multiple temperature sensors and WiFi--all over 2 wires.
"we've got a fuse which is quite good" - someone send this video to weller!
Or Apple.
And while I'm at it, My all time favourite video of yours is probably the automatic washroom siphon. Absolutely wonderful explanation that one!
Barbie sparkler is by far my favorite for pure laughs.
This is probably one the best video's I've seen on RUclips ; thank you for taking the time to explain
Nice units but I like to think it's important to fully understand the wiring of central heating systems before installing them, even when using wiring centres like these. They are after all really quite simple. A good understanding of the wiring and how the components work also makes fault finding much faster and easier. I'm always surprised how many electricians and plumbers are baffled by 3 port mid-position valves and have no idea they operate!
That's why the wiring centre is useful. A lot of heating engineers can't actually get their head round the control system.
As an US Tech (licensed as well), I see a lot of weird shit done wiring up boilers, I have seen many jobs were the installer or maintenance has Jerry rigged the wiring to the point of reinventing a square wheel.
@@bigclivedotcom and so called electricians who are baffled by 2 way light switches with intermediates.
@@bigclivedotcom God help them if they come to our house and find 2 TRVs on the bathroom rad - cos it's on 2 zones !
"How to wire, by painting by numbers" doe's my nut right in! :/ learn the theory, apply it...
That's clever, putting some Dc on the synchronous motor to hold it mid position.
I love these simple, elegant engineering solutions.
I also enjoy your sharing of the information with us
Best regards,
Duncan
Wasting 7 watts of power keeping a valve open is NOT elegant. (IMO). Actually I guess it's mitigated by the fact it's only when heating the house and so it's not really wasted - just a bit less efficient and more expensive than the heat from the gas boiler.
In the Netherlands, most of the homes have a single unit that does both the heating and hot water. Usually, hot tap water is not stored in tanks, but is produced on the fly.
It comes as whole unit, so it is quick to install. just connect the pipes and hook up the thermostat and you are done.
These sorts of devices are fascinating.
Clive, you've saved the day again. I discovered your channel when attempting to diagnose a faulty cooker clock/timer, turned out to be a dry solder joint, one of your vids helped me find and fix it, and now you've helped me with my non-existent hot water! I thought I'd have to replace the whole valve, but I can do just the motor and JB?! And lo, there was again hot water! Much appreciated! What will you get me fixing next?!
My house has one of the early 80's honeywell boxes where everything is Rammed in there and screwed shut. Quite tempted to get one of these and re-do it myself to make it neat and tidy.
Best left alone if its working.
Dont screw with old wiring without checking carefully.
If your cable insulations bad, moving it could cause you all sorts of trouble. Its also likely that something is non standard, and it will take a week to fix.
Think twice, and triple check its going to be warm when you kill the heating for a week...
Excellent video Clive.
That link box is beautiful design. If the designer happens to discover this vid and then the comments, kudos, nice bit of engineering design mate.
Following my visit to the UK, where I had the pleasure of using many different establishments and homes showering facilities, I think it's fair to say that the height of plumbing in the country was reached during Roman occupation, and went downhill from there. I don't know what that thing has to do with it, or what other monstrosities are hidden away in your wall spaces and utility rooms, but I was very glad to the back in Australia to have a decent shower with steady water pressure, consistent temperature and with a volume that means all of me remains showered upon throughout.
@geordie matthews which way does the water spin in your toilet
I agree about the state of showers in the UK, wouldn't call it a pleasure, I haven't had the Australian experience. However you can get good ones in the UK, mine all give good flow and a constant temperature irrespective of what else is used etc. because they are indirect and pumped. But I have to say the shower problem is worse in France and Italy, where practically none of the houses(as opposed to apartments) have any control over flow or temperature, including my own house in Italy.The problem is that houses are all "high pressure" directly off the mains supply, but the mains water pressure is very very unreliable. Installing a system (autoclave in Italian, very confusingly) to overcome this is common, but they do not work consistently . Are Australian systems generally direct or indirect? (NOT A PLUMBER!)
@@oldestnic, the Aussie systems are typically direct from the mains, either with a water heater with storage tank (allowing for off-peak heating) or are instant, heating the water only when in use. Most of the time even flushing the toilet in the same bathroom has little effect on the shower running at the same time. Solar hot water heaters are quite popular too, further reducing gas/power consumption. The other side of this is water can be quite scarce in Australia, and high efficiency shower heads and taps are quite common, which considerably reduce flow thus volume. But you take the good with the bad.
nah, not ALL aussie homes have good pressure. Last place I rented has full mains pressure cold and gravity fed hot - crank the hot all the way and just a tiny touch of cold or you freeze your nuts off. Then again, it took 10 years for the jerk landlord to replace the indoor ONLY rated ceramic fuse box that was mounted outside, facing the ocean. Ten years of constant complaints, electricians warning him it was a death trap, black corrosion on all the copper and regular showers of sparks raining out of the box before the threat of having the place condemned forced his hand. The oven also exploded at one point...
@@oldestnic where is your house in Italy?
On a residential building the problem your facing are quite common. (Even my flat have this problem due to the old construction date ('60).
And south of italy have old and water resources problems so no wonder about shower problems.
But on my house, the problem is not present at all. Pressure is so strong that sometimes the boiler have to release some pressure. (And yes the pressure regulator is installed but the flow is hi)
Shower temperature is directly controlled by the shower knobs. That have a mechanical thermostat and can mix hot and cold water.
But at least our electric systems and heating system are a lot easier that most of other countries. I've never seen 2 way valves. (Edit here, I have an Honeywell 3 way valve inside my heating boiler for the exact same purpose. Hot water vs radiator circuit. But is manages by the boiler logic board directly, we just a a T.A. terminal block to short to enable the heating call.)
I have a 4 zone heating here. And I have a single valve per radiator. So I could actually control each room.
Just because I'm an IT guy I've installed an PLC to control them with pid and crazy indoor outdoor temperature stuff.
Generally a simple on off thermostat. would do the same.
I’m in the US and we have something similar here but they are not common for residential use we mostly use natural gas or electric for hot water and forced air heating or a boiler with radiators that is separate
I have this very type system. A hydronic nat gas base board system. OR you can have a floor heated system in concrete or under your carpeted floor. NICE and warm floor in the winter. Works VERY well at 95% eff.
REAL ONLY problem is the little brass gear that drives the valve wears away.
I have this in my house, with a Landis & Gyr RWB2 mechanical timer controller. That also lives on in the Siemens RWB2e which has the exactly same wiring diagram in the manual as on the back of my unit. As a hint of age, the PCB of the honeywell sundial has 1987 stamped on it for when it was designed (pre RoHS of course which seems to have been the big change to your current unit), and the date of manufacture of the rwb2 was 1996.
'Neat' - the highest praise from Big Clive!
I was always interested in how such motorised valves worked. China sells a lot of those hvac damper actuators, they will probably work the same way
Ah, the apprentice box. Throw one of these at them then tell then about the secondary conservatory heating circuit that stops the grapevine freezing and that it's a three pump system with relays. 😂
Honeywell three-port valves are cunning engineering genius though. Can't reduce that component count anymore. They can lock-up in the wrong place if customers are prone to messing with the programmer settings throughout the day because they don't always fall back to the expected position.
The 2 port zone version sticks open, usually the micro switch gives call to heat for boiler so you come home to a boiling hot house with a boiler that’s not stopped running all day.
In our system, the three way valve and the boiler thermostat both link directly into the furnace connection blocks, as does the outside temperature sensor and the room unit (behind a Bosch proprietary protocol). Things like boiler thermals and power level settings are all on the furnace lcd display.
yay plumbing stuff ! I love it.
Most dont know how plumbing is complex
Very interesting to see the workings of the valve. I got a roll of orange electrical tape with my last JLC order.
Haha, I was so confused at first. Not a bad JW impression that 😉 Thanks for the video
Oh wow feeling special 😅 Im New to patreon! Feels good to watch before most others!
Great work! I have learnt a lot from your videos ☺️
Thanks for supporting, I personally can't swing it but do enjoy the videos. Especially when things go pop.
Very informative and interesting video.
Pretty much all combi boilers now, I used to wire them up with connectors off the top on my head, but its been a while now since I've done a heating install. Nice Honeywell unit though
Great one JW
Yeah, his Big Clive impression is spot on!
in the US from what ive seen on shows like This Old House for years now they run the output of the boiler into a manifold and that has individual valves for the zones. the hot water tank can be its own zone though its not uncommon especially in areas with gas to just have a seperate gas fired water heater. Storage hot water tanks are also pretty much still king in the US vs point of use or whole house tankless(upside to our natural vented gas storage WH is we still have hot water even in power failure).
Some really fancy systems I have seen go beyond just having valves on the manifold, Each zone also has its own circulation pump. Smaller systems with two or three zones usually have a common pump for them all.
Also not uncommon in some homes is "Hydro-Air" where you have a boiler as the heat source, it runs lines out to air handlers that basically have a big radiator in them and the air blows over that to get heated. this allows a home to have both forced air, Air conditioning and under floor radiant heating.
As the wallet of a homeowner grows fatter the more interesting the HVAC systems can get.
As of lately, the quick test and hoppi meter have been both used rather frequently. in most recent videos so far. It's interesting really to see so many appearances of the two devices working together.
I've recently been watching John Ward, really informative stuff.
I searched his videos all through college, albeit that was some tiem ago...
Incredibly dull though.
@@chrisb4009 Turn the voltage up then.
@@chrisb4009 Very British
comm744 he’s very what Americans think British people are like.
My house has a 110-volt oil-fired burner with two internal water coils: one that feeds the hot-water baseboard (with a tiny supplemental water tank), and another coil that feeds the hot water at the taps. Our thermostats are 24 VDC that feed back to 3-wire zone valves that open or close depending on thermostat call (it's binary - either call to open, or call to close). There is a 110-volt recirculating pump that activates when any of the valves open to pump the hot water through the baseboard loops. The hot water for taps/faucets is a straight-shot from the main well pump, through the hot water coil, and out to the pipes.
The burner itself runs automatically via very basic high and low temperature cutoffs to keep the water toasty for whenever/wherever it is needed.
Keep in mind this house was built in 1975 by my family - my maternal grandfather was a licensed plumber and he originally installed this massive behemoth of a furnace - the left side was an oil burner (but could be converted to run LPG) and the right side could actually burn wood. When we finally had it replaced (and the new furnace has a 3' x 4' footprint and is only 4' tall) the techs said, "Man, I haven't seen one of these old furnaces since we refitted all the furnaces in _(local housing project)_ and... Damn." I smiled and said, "my grandfather installed those furnaces and plumbed those houses, he bought our furnace at the same time that housing project was being built."
Now, sure, the new furnace has a very basic "brain box" now, with error codes but no legend for what they mean (random letters that don't even relate to the issue) and it requires a PhD to reset the dang thing if we've run out of oil and it takes me more than three attempts to bleed air from the fuel line (and it's outrageously-complicated to set the min/max temperatures on a two-digit display)... But other than that, it does the job, far more efficiently than that massive beast it replaced.
Either way I love BC and JW 👍🏽
Bayonet Capped
Just Wired
Golly! What a robust and simple system for controlling water/heat.
Looks nicer (and easier) than the old one in our house. Links were not supplied!
Yup. We have a Y plan system and the JB is just a birdsnest.
I work in HVAC field and we have diverter valves on individual duct coils that work on a return loop to a boiler.
The 24v vac mains, the valves modulate 0-10 VDC sig. voltage
Honeywell is big here. I actually got one of my dog's from there. He escaped after being abused with a broom or mop handle. Beautiful German Shepherd Dog who came free so I named him Freedom. Hell of a dog!
Didn't know they made these, now to clean up my furnace wiring with a unit from another company like this.
I remember 28 years ago ,moving into my brand new home . And almost every three way valve in the houses in my street failed . British Gas investigate and it turned out the onsite electrition had wired them all up wrong .. I remember wires every where .
The label says "Installation should be carried out by a competent person." As if an incompetent person is going to read that and think "well, I'd better not try this then" 😂😂😂
That's probably to protect the manufacturer from fools installing it then blaming the company when it goes bang... Same way food which needs heating says "may be hot" on the label...
Indeed, the old Dunning-Krueger effect running strong with many
@@AAAyyyGGG That's how the legislation is written. Back in the day a lot of electricians and plumbers didn't have formal qualifications (many still don't) and a "competent person" means someone with knowledge gained through experience in associated industries, apprenticeships or formal training. Same with gas work, you have an assessment to prove your competence that then allows you to be GasSafe registered instead of needing any specific qualification.
@@khaitomretro there are plenty of "qualified" electricians that are not competent, I have met some I would not trust to wire a plug let alone a building HVAC management system.
@@dogwalker666 I did my apprenticeship back when it was the 14th edition and came off the tools shortly before the 18th came into effect so I've met my fair share of "qualified" electricians that I wouldn't have working for me.
Honeywell got taken over by AlliedSignal a few years ago, and Allied took on their name because it was well-known and came with a good reputation. Sort of creepy, just a touch like murdering someone and then wearing their skin and assuming their identity. Just slightly.
That's what happened to MG.
Going "Buffalo Bill" is normal modus operandi for corporations.
@@dogwalker666 Boeing too, if I recall correctly, although theirs was a weird reverse takeover where they bought McDonnell and the McDonnell executives ended up running Boeing (into the ground). Sort of like eating something that was contaminated with a parasite that ends up living in your brain, controlling your thoughts.
McDonnell's shitty corp culture leads straight to the 737max debacle.
@@JoranGroothengel yes exactly literally running the 737max into the ground. And taking down Boing's reputation with it.
This comparison is pure genius. Let's all call these companies skinwalker companies!
You had me at first... I thought "I thought this was the sexy one" then I looked down and saw the logo and was like "ok it is"... sorry JW
I am MUCH sexier than JW. He needs a beard.
@@bigclivedotcom Yes, beards are best!
I have a veissman boiler with the on demand hot water. It uses two zone one way valves. That said. When I had a problem with the valves this winter, rewiring them was not all that much fun. I'm not an hvac person. I'm a carpenter. Haha. I have since learned a lot about hvac since then.
Interesting ! I've a Viessmann too but no valves in it.
I love this channel, you have the same name as my father, who also happens to be an electrical engineer AND we're British too. The coincidences.
I literally have a box of about 100 of these in my garage. A company used to supply these I subbed to wiring boilers. Didnt like the look of them so just stuck to what I knew. Double patress, blank plate and strip of 10 15a connectors. If anyone wants to buy a job lot il do them £3 a piece.
You should eBay them. They'd go for between £15 to £20 if you include free postage.
@@bigclivedotcom gosh I didn't think they was worth that much. Didnt look like there was that much to them when I opened them up. Thanks I think I shall do that if its about £1500 just sitting collecting dust!
This is a product of Honeywells Supercomputers.
They just fed in the parts and told it to make this thing.
Weirdly i was looking at a very similar unit a few days ago! StRaNgE
Why?
Good idea - agree that the tracks and pads should be more beefy because a 200lb gorrilla(c) is going to overtighten those screws leading to dry joints
You thinking of Dewclaw?
The manual lever is for plumbers to be able to drain all the water out of the system.
And fill it. It can also be a quick fix while a new valve is on order.
Another oddity I've noticed with these mid position valves - they only seem to fail on a Sunday evening, just after toolstation and screwfix have closed. I've got to be in work early in the morning, and will be away for a few days. So the boss is left without heating or hot water until I get back. Ought to start keeping spares on the shelf!
In the US, at least from my observation, the system is quite different. The valves and control logic runs on a 24V system, and each zone is controlled by an individual valve. Each thermostat will have both an on and off signal, and the valve will travel to the set position and then disconnect the motor. A signal wire will then run to the boiler from each valve.
LOVE JW!
I work for a supply house here in the rust belt of America we still have L8148A1017 Honeywell electro-mechanical aquastat and circulator controls on large boilers. The simplest valve actuator is the wax motor in the Thermostatic Radiator Actuators. We also still have magic widgets like Q345A powerpile generators that use the heat of a pilot burner to make 3/4 of a volt to operate VS820 a gas valve, no "mains" no batteries just a flame to make electricity. My favorite obsolete but still in use technology in large buildings is pneumatic controls and actuators. I help with systems that are up to 70 years old and still in use almost every day. Electronic actuators cannot compete with the power and durability that you get from a pneumatic valve or damper actuator, they are just a spring and a diaphragm. One more reason to keep pneumatic controls is because it is impossible to hack or write malware for them and yet it is an open protocol! And to confirm Honeywell is their on worst enemy, is it Residio or just a residue?
The pneumatic mantra is "Clean, Dry Oil Free air". Pneumatic systems are dirt simple, but suffer from lack of a simple interface with electronic monitoring of the system... I still like them though.
@@paulsperbeck617 All true. I recommend
hybrid systems when people ask. Prolon is my favorite DDC vendor but Johnson Controls and Distech are what we sell the most of. Belimo is excellent for what they do too.
good unit but takes all the fun(and skill) into turning a terminal box into a neat wired center
Honeywell, can be pain in the bum on big projects
We have a Honeywell a/c heating thermostat. They may be marked, but didn't didn't slow down our maint. person from miswiring the a/c unit. I had to fix it- and I knew less about electronics than a chimp.
I'm slowly learning electronics, tho.
At which load does the HOPI stop being useful? I recall, a long time ago, that you mentioned that at very low currents, the HOPI's reading was unreliable. TY
They do a version with a smaller more accurate range.
I remember subscribing to John Wards channel when he had about 80 total subscribers... seems like a lifetime ago.
JW is great and he only lives a mile away from me :)
A safe distance, by the sound of things.
Graham McMaster - do you get to see the smoke?
The lights flicker unexpectedly sometimes 😛
This board seems like the perfect display model for Autorouter capabilities. If I had to design this and I would not want to put much effort into it, I would just let it sit with the Autorouter over night...
the manual overide valve lever is to enable bleeding thr air out of the system before powering up.
I should have mentioned it's use during filling.
Funnily enough I just changed one for my dad a couple of days ago, his was a honeywell but it looked nothing like that one inside. Bought a Corgi version instead at half the price and it was identical to the honeywell I removed.
The heating system you are describing sounds quite complex. In The Netherlands we normally just have one integrated gas-powered kettle that you simply connect to the radiators, hot water taps and thermostat (which is just a user control panel, all smarts are inside the kettle). These days it even contains the pump.
Can you do a video about the complex heating system commonly used in the UK?
What you have described is what we call a combi boiler. They are pretty common but if someone wants to keep the hot water tank and not simply have the boiler try and heat it on demand then you use this kind of valve to direct the water to the tank or radiators or both as scheduled.
Intro cracked me up.
Clive: If it has a Honeywell label on it, it is shite.
Honeywell brought out a 2 wire heating control system several years ago. It, when it was working, was excellent. However, they withdrew the product and all support for it.
Last year, a friend's daughters house was fitted with such a system and it went down.
She was faced with ripping the house to bits and replacing every valve and control in the house because nothing is compatable with Honeywell unsupported rubbish. A nightmare!
What voltage was the control system ?
rose 375 - I hate to say it, but did the person doing the work have Scooby-Doo what they were doing. I work in an industry where we keep complex electrical, electronic, electro-mechanical obsolete systems running many decades after the original manufacturer has ended support. We have to work out how it’s supposed to work, then find out which part has failed. Then replace said part and test it before returning it to service.
A simplification system to allow a novice to install a heating system safely, but still needs some 2-day Part-P Course-certified halfwit who probably couldn't tell Live from Neutral to certify it as safe... :P
Too true.
Four year apprentice program here
If you’ve ever seen electrical work done by a plumber Part P makes sense 😂😂
They started selling these wiring centres after the sparks all got their knickers in a twist that anyone CORGI registered was more qualified to wire up a heating system than they were but couldn't work out how to do it themselves.. Most sparks couldn't get their head round the three port valves. Even today if you give a sparks a system with a three-port valve, a Honeywell wiring centre and a programmer without a heating off output they still can't work out what to do without replacing the programmer. 😂
khaitomretro there are electricians and there are house bashers.
On another subject. How do you contact you clive. Just fitted a lightwave dimmer used phillips lamps had the problem of glowing lamps but in. The past found having more than 12w of load sorted the problem. This time I went for the varilight glow fix can you do a video on the glow fix on why it works?
Actually a normal-sized house here would not have a heating system with separate equipment to be wired by the installer here.
I remember we had that decades ago, but today there would be just a single unit that contains all the stuff, and has a mains lead, a thermostat lead, gas in, cold water in, hot water out, and radiator out and -return. The unit does all the magic and is delivered from the factory without any wiring required.
Internally these things usually no longer contain a 3-way valve but rather they use two separate circulation pumps, one for the radiator circuit and one for the hot-water circuit, and they are controlled by the microprocessor-based controller. The better ones have variable rate pumps, the cheap ones only run at full (fixed) rate.
And of course the furnace itself is a condensing type which has modulated gas flow rate, which is adjusted by the thermostat. So the furnace tends to run all day in winter to keep the house temperature constant.
We have a mix of what we call combination boilers which are what you describe and system boilers which have external valves.
A lot of heating today has smart controls operated from a phone with the ability to learn your habits.
Bigger houses still tend to use zone valves.
A few companies have tried using a pump for each heating zone and rather than the common pump with a valve for each zone which is more normal.
Our boilers use modulating gas valves, latent heat recoverry/condensing mode and also feed forward control like weather compensation that measures external temperature to predict loading.
@@chrisb4009 Ok, so it appears to be at least somewhat advanced (as compared to the USA where they still only use prehistoric equipment, likely because energy is cheap there, and they just don't care anyway).
However, the wiring panel shown seems to indicate on/off thermostats operating at 240V etc., not very modern.
Indeed here a thermostat is normally connected using a low voltage serial link (OpenTherm) and has lots of smartness and controls, often via internet.
Usually radiators each have their own thermostatic valve in installations like that here, and the smarter ones also send control signals from the radiator valves to the boiler. (so the boiler only runs when at least one radiator demands heat, not by the overall temperature of the house measured in the living room)
And even with all that, the lefties want us all to change from gas heating to "more environmentally friendly" systems like heat pumps....
Unless it has solar water heating
@@Rob2 Having everything mains voltage makes things simple and standard. The complexity of the system is up to the end user and installer. Some of us still favour simplicity and reliability.
Rob OpenTherm was invented/developed by a British subsidiary of Honeywell and sold to an joint industry group (the OpenTherm association) on the mid 90’s. Most boilers are OpenTherm and some support other comms protocols too. Traditionally boilers have modulate the burner based on feedback of heating medium temperature, individual radiators are fitted with thermostatic valves and a single bimetallic strip type thermostat provides simple on/off control. Most recent systems (5-10 years) are fitted with some form of smart control these use OpenTherm or a proprietary equivalent to feedback room temperature to the heating appliance. Homes normally have separate smart controlled heating circuits for heating downstairs, heating upstairs and hot water. Smart radiator valves are getting more common which feedback temperature in each room and turn heat emitters on/off based on temperature set point.
hi can i use this on a combi boiler with UFH manifold
..... Honeywell an American company can be proud of their products.....
Good instructions. Although, someone will use twin and earth cabling and think, I dont have a green or yellow cable!! In my previous job as a maintenance manager in a care home, everything was branded Honeywell! So must be good right??
"Sector gear" is what I've usually heard those called. You see them in dial test indicators. That particular one could possibly be operating by running the sector gear to its end and then just letting it click against the pinion. That would be much preferable to stalling the motor.
No clicking noise. The design of the motor is such that there's very little power dissipation difference between running and stalled.
I heard somewhere that in the UK water is very low pressure and you need something to raise the pressure to general home use. Something to do with the ancient water pipes not being able to take the pressure.
No, mains water pressure is pretty high.
What's going to happen if you remove the diode? 🤔 Or the diode is not conducive?
I dont know about that...are plumbers also part P?
They're all part-Prick.
14:03 It's a quadrant gear.
I'll go along with that - even though it isn't a quadrant !
Good old Honeywell, currently keeping me cool as I watch this. (My big fan is a Honeywell)
They've licensed their name to some other manufacturers though, some of which make utter crap.
@@tncorgi92 Ah, such is modern life.
Keeping you cool ?????? Where are you ?
@@millomweb Sunny Scotland where it was 23 Degrees Celsius at the time of posting.
@@PaulEcosse Scotland (the clue's in the name) NEVER gets hot enough to require cooling.
28°C is great, 30 better still. We open our windows to let the heat IN !
Yeah those are the old style haha, rarely see them these days, can I send you a really cool electric radiator controller (remote control)
Would love it to be clived to pieces so we can see what it is all about 😋
If something is to be "Clived" it is to be "to bits".
@@roderickwhitehead iam from Holland I don't care about grammar and shit 😂
@@ritzevespa lol
Clive a nice explanation. Personally I prefer zone valves to mid position valves. Some years ago It took me a while to figure out how a mid zone valve worked. Small point I think you missed that the four resistors are in parallel?
So was he meant to do that weird x2 thing (the x being in a strange font) on a scientific calculator as he added them up?
No, he said they were in parallel - hence the divide by 4.
Version 2 of my heating system I may use mid-port valves with the mid position being 'ON' and the full over position being 'TRV'. Power off and the rad's off. Could be used as flow boost to get rad hot quickly before going onto TRV mode. Also, for option to override TRV without turning TRV up.
2:40 15:38 "one moment please" :)
wow...that tiny circuit board must have taken forever to reverse engineer. . . :D
In the early nineties I used to run a non market leading pcb design program called E-router I think. I ran it on a state of the art 286 computer that had two house brick sized ejectable disk cartridges of an enormous 1.2 megabytes each! It would have taken it several hours to plot out even that circuit board! Overnight was more the norm. It had a library of components and after compiling the circuit diagram it could emulate the circuit function, place the components and plot the tracks. All badly. Sadly the components we used never seemed to be in the library and if you entered them yourself it never really worked. Those were the days eh!
0:15 Who cares, your ramblings are gold
You could put a different color led in eavh side then we could see the valve position by the color
This would be a formidable place to have a stepper motor and a feedback potentiometer...... you could provide hot water at the rate you want, whenever you want, on demand, with ultra fine control....
I enjoy where you refer to the yellow wire as being "Earth" color.
Yellow/Green is Earth in the UK.
@@daveayerstdavies Yes, I am aware. My point was that he referred to all the other colors by their color, in a context where he was saying that people don't need to know what the colors mean, but he still called yellow "earth" without thinking.
@@fluffycritter That's a very grounded statement.
@Sinon Strunje yes I have no doubts about that
my comment was that he referred to *the color* as "earth," not the purpose of the wire.
@@daveayerstdavies actually its green/yellow there is a difference as my boss found out when he bought 5000 meters of yellow/green.
You'd be surprised how many plumbers actually set houses on fire.
The danger of combustion is when they're making copper connections with flux, soldier and a torch.
The trick is to have the pipes empty when doing the solder joints - otherwise using a flame torch can set the leaking gas alight.
;)
pmailkeey - could you demonstrate this for us please?
@@Mark1024MAK No ;)
You didn’t mention the key characteristic of synchronous motors, that the approach relies on. This is that the motor ‘freezes ‘ when DC is applied. Even the half wave DC from the single diode is enough to stop the motor and resist the return spring force. Very neat and simple :)
That's what I meant by DC braking.
zone and heating valves in north america usually operate at 24v....strange seeing that at 230v.
I believe the gear is a "Sector Gear"
That's more correct than a quadrant.
dang if i was in the uk, i'd send you some -old- black and decker power tools my dad never got around to refurbishing most commonly they needed new carbon brushes for the motors
Back when they were good! They're cheap Chinese re-badge outfit these days, their mini-drill reminds me of a child's toy I had as a nipper.
@@Jamal_Tyrone I have a B&D drill. Probably 70 year old now - so just about 'run in'.
@@Jamal_Tyrone yeah, sure they're heavy with steel frames and everything but they feel good in the hand!
@@r.h.8754 Our old small one went through a lifetime of drilling (can't remember shuck size) and also had the additional use being clamped upside down in a vice being a circular saw bench AND spent a lot of life with an 8" sanding disc on it buffing car bodies ! Can't really remember what it died of but I think it was motor rather than bearings!
It was replaced by a Makita which seems to be equal if not better as a tool - might not be as fast and only single drive speed (The B&D had a 2 speed gear box) The Makita has a switched diode for less speed but the biggest bugbear is the trigger latch button placed under the grip. Every time it was used, it'd latch permanently on due to holding it firmly!
6:59 POWN 💥
Thanks to this video I have determined my 3 port valve has an issue with the spring return, I have none!
The motor works and the CH and HW can be heated etc but because there is no spring return anymore manual override can not be engaged and the valve can get in a configuration where it directs water the wrong way.
Love the "Installation should be carried out by a competent person" remark on the lid. Should go without saying I'd presume but I every now and then the obvious just needs to be spelled out in clear words without going "US dummy lawsuit insurance" à la "you cannot dry your pet by hooking it up to your heating system".
just like the "warning contains nuts" on a bag of peanuts!
"Sector" gear.
I have Honeywell V4073A 3 port valve and it works almost the same but documentation says if 240V in grey wire = Valve held in last position but if last position was CH, approx 100V output on orange wire. I don't understand why ~100V present on the orange wire and what is the purpose of it?
It sounds like a warning about backfeed. Possibly via the position holding diode.
Got something like this in our heating system that has died , Not sure if its the motor in the unit or the controller Pcb , Winter time we had to use the manual override latch just to get radiators on.
That does sound like the motor. If you test for mains between neutral (blue) and the white and grey wires and the motor is not hot then the head probably needs replaced.
@@bigclivedotcom Thanks for the reply Clive ,during your stripdown i noticed they had microswitches i figure maybe they could wear out and fault but i dont think it would out right cripple the motor function as a whole.
If the water flows from AB to A or B the water pressure should be working to help the seal on the valve.
Yup.
Honeywell valves are a better design - the seal is a freely rotating ball - so doesn't necessarily seal on the same part of the ball every time - although that may be a bad thing :) but is does mean the ball centres itself on the annular seal - which this cheap vale style won't.
Also how do I send you stuff for you to explore?
I have a simple but very intriguing non electronic mechanism that you might love!
Might be best to ask Clive on Patreon.
@@Jeff44 Thanks will do, forgot that we can message creators
How do you get the call for heat for hot water of that's only connected to the heating microswitch?
The default is hot water tank heating.
@@bigclivedotcom but what would activate the boiler? A feed from the thermostat direct to boiler rather than lead off the second microswitch?
@@agentblueuk The heating thermostat has a switch that either feeds the boilers control input when on or the valve when off.
JW here!!