Doctor Who's Awkward Cold War Tribute
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Did Doctor Who's episode "Cold War" sink or swim?
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#DoctorWho #Series7 #Review
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I did think Clara could bite the dust in any given episode, not knowing if we’d had had the permanent Clara at that point 🤣. Good times.
I personally really like this episode, especially the setting of both set during the Cold War and in a small submarine, though I’m mixed on the design of the Ice Warrior outside of the armor. It feels a bit too uncanny going from a completely practical costume to a fully CGI face. A bit off topic, but I love that there is technically two Doctors, two Prince Philips and a Queen Victoria in this episode
I literally pointed that out in my comment cus of Tobias Menzies following on from Matt Smith in the Crown.
I love how divisive the comment section is when it comes to the Moffat-era episodes.
Plus a Prince Charles
I noticed you called the crew "russians" once or twice - just wanted to point out that not all Soviet people were russians, even if everyone spoke russian as an official and "common" language.
For example, the surname of the Professor - "Grisenko" - is a typically Ukrainian surname.
Very good point, my mistake
One of the things I love about Steven Moffat’s era is his monsters. He brought back the Silurians, The Zygons, The Ice Warriors and The Great Intelligence from classic who and made them more terrifying than ever
What on earth are you talking about lol, every single one of those episodes were rubbish. I’d even go as far as to say the 50th anniversary was a bit dead tbh. David Tennant saved it. The zygon two parter with Capaldi was shit apart from Capaldi’s speech.
@@NileSWPhotography the man was behind 14 of modern Who’s top 20 episodes
@@emperorholocron8278 meh. Without David Tennant bringing it to life and Murray’s score I reckon those episodes would be forgotten too.
@@NileSWPhotography Tennant's not even in over half of those episodes
@@NileSWPhotography Please, John Hurt was the real star. Tennant is just a crybaby Doctor.
Because of your reviews of the season 7b, I decided to watch a couple of episodes after a long time. I watched from Bells till Hide and I have to say, all of the episodes were better than I remembered, but especially this one, since I used to skip it on repeat watch. I think what sold it to me were the immersive sets and Clara's shock from seeing the dead bodies of the sailors. This is only the second proper adventure she has had and in the rings of akathen, everything was alien and strange but dead human bodies are too grounded and grim. I appriciate the episode for going there.
Yeah agreed. Plus there's implied gore which the Smith era really hasn't done much with (i think) so it heightens the threat.
The ending of episodes like these always felt like a missed opportunity to me. The Doctor and their companion are a fair distance from the TARDIS and the episode ends with them embarking on the long journey back, often for comedic purposes. There's a perfect opportunity for another story immediately following that, we even have an obvious character goal as well
Imagine if, instead of just joking about how far away the TARDIS was, we actually saw an episode about it. The next episode would start with them being dropped off in some neutral territory and perhaps the Doctor might have an old alien friend nearby who could help transport them across the continent to where they need to go. This make the Doctor an active character inciting the story rather than just passively and coincidentally stumbling upon a story. We could see even see the Doctor and the companion earn their travel by doing a job or something, maybe sharing an apartment for a week as they work towards their specific goal of getting back to the TARDIS, with all sorts of story opportunities sprouting out of just that.
I remember this happening in "The Girl Who Died" episode in the ninth series too, Clara and the Doctor are kidnapped in England and brought all the way to Norway (I think) and then (I think) they go all the way back to England at the end. Weeks of travel time in really awful conditions, and they both just brush it off and get home and act like nothing happened. I could totally see the whole journey back being so miserable and full of near-death-experiences that the companion no longer wants to travel anymore (which is a decent sendoff for the right character) or perhaps it's a beautiful voyage and it makes the companion want to travel even more, perhaps they get attacked by other Vikings or pirates or whatever and that's the story there. Honestly, the one concept of being kidnapped in a different time could lead into a whole series worth of misadventures across said specific time period and general location with the main character drive being getting back to the TARDIS. Imagine a one-series companion only going to one time period but the adventures therein are so series-wide that they are done with travelling by the end.
RTD needs to read this
We already had something like that back in the 70s with Jon Pertwee's Third Doctor starting his run in forced exile on Earth. The plots became so formulaic so quickly that with just the second season of this format (Season 8) the writers decided to have the Timelords send The Doctor on missions for them across time and space by controlling the TARDIS remotely just to be able to get better variety for the storylines. As producer Terrance Dicks described it, they could only do two storylines under the exile format, mad scientist or alien invasion so having that status 'bent' a bit allowed for a wider variety of storylines.
Point is, Doctor Who is a show about traveling throughout all of time and space, exploring whole new worlds and/or time periods each and every week. Following The Doctor and Co. throughout each step of a long linear journey that stretches out over the course of a full series takes too much away from that core concept and would get rather boring for the fans to have to sit through.
Much better to do what RTD did with Series 1 instead, which was having The Doctor and Rose stay in and around Earth but popping up in different moments throughout Earth's history. This allowed proper space to explore different aspects of Rose's character and how she relates to The Doctor amongst the familiar backdrop of Earth while still being able to keep each episode's setting and situation unique and fresh in the way that only Doctor Who can.
@@dst9997RTD is a soap opera hack.
@@dst9997RTD sucks.
Gatiss has a truly remarkable ability to write stories that don't have anything majorly wrong with them but are also extremely forgettable.
The thing about Mark Gatiss is that he has ideas which are great in concept but fall flat or fizzle out in execution. He's a great writer yes, but none of his writing for Doctor Who (tv) are memorable. They are suffice-able but nothing great
I just realised that the 12th helped the ice warrior in this episode in a different episode. Basically the ice warriors were frozen on mars and their entire species wiped out with only that nest of ice warriors and then the 12th doctor gets them to join the galactic group or whatever (galactic federation, thanks mayo tango) it was called leading to the ice warrior in this episode to be rescued.
TL;DR the 11th and 12th doctor helped save this ice warrior in 2 different episodes
Galactic Federation.
I think for those who went through the Cold War as kids, this definitely strikes a note, especially growing up in the US (and those in USSR). I have a fascination for this time period, too. I think a shout out to the late, great David Warner would've been a nice touch.
On another note, do you watch Supernatural? I know it's 15 long seasons but I would love to see you take it on. You might want to disable comments tho, SPN fans can get pretty upset. I got banned for a totally innocuous comment.
I am extremely interested in the Cold War. Technology had an absolutely massive boom during that time
I mean, we went from super props in 1946 to supersonic jets by 1956
@@Tigershark_3082 All wars, even cold ones, always spur tech.
I used to collect USSR and DDR memorabilia. Still have it. I'm leaving it to the CWIHP. Check them out.
SPN Family unite! I was also expecting a David Warner shout-out.
@@ashleytuchin7693 Team Free Will!
I personally love this episode, the setting, matt smtih and jennas performance, the guest cast and a good intro to the ice warriors in my opinion
RIP David Warner. He passed away earlier this year. He was such a good actor.
me: say the thing
harbo: ‘and before this video begins I’d like to give a shout-out to my azbantium level patron faolancortez’
Interesting to me that the professor's favorite band is Ultravox according to your review. In the U.S. release of this episode that I watched, his favorite song was Hungry Like the Wolf by Duran Duran.
He mentions both; he mentions Duran Duran but also Ultravox and asks
whether they break up
Rest in Peace David Warner,
You uploaded The Snowmen review during the last heatwave and now you are uploading your *Cold* War review during this heatwave
9:21 the tardis just deciding to leave is my favorite version of writing it out of an episode. It’s like she figured out that she can just say “nah” and leave instead of having to get locked up or whatever
I think Skaldak was quite interesting. I got the feeling that he saw his daughter in Clara which is a compliment coming from an Ice Warrior.
4 relatively positive doctor who essays in a row? In series 7b?? Damn!
and yet people still claim I hate the Moffat era
A fun fact about this episode is that it stars 3 future lead actors from "The Crown"
Matt Smith, who plays Prince Phillip in Seasons One and Two.
Tobias Menzies, who plays Prince Phillip in Seasons Three and Four.
Josh O'Connor, who plays Prince Charles also in Seasons Three and Four.
As well as Jenna Coleman, Liam Cunningham and David Warner round out what is an excellent cast for this episode. That being said, I was a little disappointed by the lack of rememberance given to the sadly departed legend that was David Warner.
I personally love this episode, always one I go back to and enjoy, love me an ice warrior. It does feel like a classic episode, base under siege, monster of the week, great supporting cast played by recognisable faces, model work. A favourite of mine. RIP David Warner
Honestly, I was expecting a lot worse from this review. Unlike a lot of Who fans, I don't have a hate boner for Mark Gatiss or his episodes, a lot of the time the production team fumble his ideas when bringing them to screen. But Cold War is anything but forgettable, it just gets written off with the rest of Series 7B as bad without many people actually taking a second glance.
As you said, the supporting cast is fleshed out and David Warner's (RIP) role as Professor Grisenko is most definitely a deliberate decision given his pedigree in films like Cross of Iron, it's beautiful to finally see him in an onscreen Doctor Who story after his many years in the realms of Big Finish. He, like the rest of the crew of the Sub, are very likeable and interesting characters that harken back to those times of blind loyalty vs uncertain futures.
I agree that the decision to remove Skaldak from his suit was a bad one, but it gave us a lovely tribute to the base under siege stories that defined the Ice Warriors. But the direction by Douglas Mackinnon and Murray Gold's music more than makes up for many of this episode's shortcomings as do the well-rounded and brilliant performances of the cast. Matt Smith even stepping out of that "sex offender" role people have often labelled him as in Series 7B.
If the episode was about 5-10 minutes longer (like most other NuWho stories) it perhaps could have been executed a little cleaner, but as it stands, Cold War is a fabulous little gem of an episode, it's not a masterpiece but it's a damn sight better than just "okay". I've always maintained Gatiss is better suited for Classic Who in terms of writing and his novel Nightshade more than solidifies that, but in terms of his NuWho efforts, this is one of his best.
True. I feel like Nuwho's format of one hour standalone episodes hurt his writing. He has some interesting ideas but none of them get fleshed out or get a chance to properly shine
@@iusedtowrite6667 his novel Nightshade perfectly encapsulates his calibre of writing but NuWho just doesn’t fit it half the time. He’s massively overhated as a writer.
@@DanTheMan2150AD yup. His episodes are not that bad. Fans are just extreme. His writings are suitable for stuff like novels as you mentioned, cause he gets to go the mile and flesh out his ideas. He was a my choice for showrunner after Chibnall. Like i think a whole series as one of his fleshed out stories would have worked so well.
@@iusedtowrite6667 you know what, he was also my choice for showrunner at one point. Give him a multi part story and see his writing really come into its own.
@@DanTheMan2150AD exactly. He just needs a proper multi-parter to just give his ideas the much needed run-time to blossom
Cold War has always been my go-to Doctor Who episode for a while now. I recently re-watched it, after watching the rings of Ahkatehn video. I can't say that I really understand, now, WHY I've always loved Cold War-- I guess I just really like Ice Warriors! But I am very excited to watch this video, because your takes are always pretty interesting!
I really like this episode. The only aspect I have major issues with is the design of the CGI Ice Warrior face- I don't think we should've actually seen what they looked like at all. Otherwise I think the concept of a desperate warrior leaving their armour once their people are extinct is awesome and a great contrast with the Doctor, who could've done down a similar path after the Time War. The parallels with the Doctor should've been explored more, but the horror of the Ice Warrior stalking people was really well directed. Definitely one of Gatiss' stronger Doctor Who episodes and a nice homage to the 60s base under siege setup.
This whole episode is just me saying "wait ... Is that davos?"
R.I.P Professor.
RIP David Warner, always hungry like the wolf
Nice sentiment but that’s Duran Duran.
@@DanTheMan2150AD Yes and?
@@DigiRangerScott his characters favourite band in the episode is Ultravox.
@@DanTheMan2150AD the American release of this episode contained Duran Duran instead
@@DanTheMan2150AD he sings Duran Duran but mentions ultravox
I feel like the UK and US can't exactly call the USSR out for atrocities and war crimes... just a tad hypocritical!
Bad take. Hypocrisy is overplayed as an issue and is starting to become very similar to whataboutism as a way to hide from criticism. You don’t need to be flawless to identify flaws otherwise nobody would ever call out problems and critique actions when necessary. The UK and US have there issues while also pointing out the issues of other nations just as we can point out issues from the UK and US as long as we don’t act they they negate each other. Atrocities should be called out regardless of the history of the person calling them out otherwise they wouldn’t be discussed and we could never be forced to learn from our actions.
@@dakotawilliams8935 That's only a valid take as long as the US and UK own up to their history of warcrimes and other atrocities (which they don't)
@saoirsedeltufo7436 you went back to the idea that hypocrisy matters. It doesn't. Whether a country "owns up to it" doesn't change anything about what other countries do and the importance of calling things out. We know these things happened what difference does it make if the countries involved admit guilt, the responsibility is on us to be aware and call it out if it looks like we're heading in the same direction again. Besides, you act as if the same people produce a movie or tv show that addresses the issues of one country are somehow responsible for or involved in the past problems of their countries government, which is absurd. There are plenty of productions from other nations about US and UK attrocities. Do you also want them to stop calling those out until they are absolutely blameless? Every country has issues, not all equal, but very rarely does any nation officially admit to anything. It doesn't change the ability of the people who reside in one nation to call out the past or present issues of another regardless of where they're from.
I remember Ultravox being news around the time of this episode. I believe Clara wouldn't know that the group sort of disbanded a few years after when this episode takes place. The professor would be crushed.
“It’s neither awful or a masterpiece” that perfectly describes season 7 as a whole
Or Chinball era.
@@mayotango1317 nah that's awful
The ice warriors appeared in the peladon tales the curse and monster of peladon
Love how you have two prince Philip, one Charles AND the queen Victoria in the same submarine X)
I have to disagree with your ranking, just going off of what you yourself have said, Harbo.
So this episode does very well what it sets out to do, with good theming and a scary villain, but just because you thought the ice warrior should have been in his armour for a bit more, it gets downgraded into a C?
I thought these rankings were supposed to be fairly objective rankings, not completely subjective.
These reviews have always been subjective
@@HarboWholmes That's fair enough, I don't intend any hate, it's just that this is the first review I've disagreed with which was a bit jarring
Meh, I still love this episode. I'm glad I met David Warner personally when I had the chance, bless his soul. A very charming gentleman to the end.
I'm surprised given all the praise you gave it in the review it didn't get a B rank. 😂 Still love these reviews of episodes I haven't seen a while so keep going!
Episodes like this, Fires of Pompeii, and The Unicorn and the Wasp take Doctor Who back to its roots as an educational show.
Even episodes like Gridlock explore the concept of devolution with the Macra.
To be honest I feel like you didn’t justify that C ranking you pointed out a few flaws in the episode but you described it like it was going to be another A ranking
I like that you don’t see him when he’s out of his armer it just reminds me of the first alien or the thing it has a very good feel to it and it’s a different type of story I always thought this one was really underrated
My biggest issue with "Cold War" was that, no matter how quick or agile or strong the villain was, submarines are notoriously cramped spaces with barely enough room to stand, and yet he stays completely out of their field of vision by hanging from the ceiling. Uhh... no.
Love your videos and the depth of your analyses. Clearly you love the show, and it's great to hear some love thrown to 7b which is often maligned. Also love how each of your episodes always balances critique with praise.
I do however think your ranking system is a bit misleading. You only really touch on two things you disliked with this episode - the flawed design of the Martian outside the suit and the fact that Skaldag spends so much time outside it. The rest of the episode is so very complimentary, which, when compared with your review of the snowmen, with many more criticisms, makes it odd that this one got a C whereas snowmen got an A. I know it's all arbitrary in the end, but watching all these back to back (again, supremely enjoyable, thank you!) it did seem a bit odd!!!
If your biggest complaint is just Skaldak being out of his suit, this episode deserves a B at the absolute minimum. This is probably Mark Gatiss' best work on Doctor Who.
Fun fact, the signs in russian in that episode are like often absolute gibberish and make no sense or just english words written in cyrillic
Rip David Warner
21:50 “We’re eye to eye and the other fellow just blinked”
Not including day and time of the doctor, this episode is the best or second best (rings of akhatan) episode in 7b
This episode alone contains two prince Philips and a Prince Charles from the show the crown, crazy
As a fan of Das Boot, I see they borrowed a lot of things. Which is fine, as long as the story is original enough, but the sheer psychological terror of Das Boot will forever be unparalelled.
Yeah because it's doctor who
The slasher aspect of this episode is the only part I really remember from it. It was so scary and such a fun route to go down for Doctor Who!
surprised it wasnt really mentioned in the episode! felt like a riff on Predator for a lot of the episode, really great atmosphere
I wish David Warner's character was the alternate third doctor
6:06 is that Davos and Edmure from Game of Thrones?
Something I am left wondering; why in the Hell did the sailor thaw Skaldek out?? He couldn't make out exactly what was in the ice, and it could have been a dead animal, like the professor originally thought, if it was, then that is something you wouldn't really have any reason or want to thaw it, as it could potentially make you sick.
The other thing about the episode that kinda bugged me was the professor interrupting the launch drill, seemingly on purpose. On purpose or a senile action, it was interfering with the affairs of the state (as thawing probably would be considered as well) and it's unfathomable that he would not have been arrested and confined to quarters, until a return to port.
Just as a note, watching your videos over time has really evolved! You're analysis always feels (to me) as neutral as possible. Another spot on job!
Yknow what's weird. The main reason I remember this episode is because of the 3.75 inch doctor who figures
I’m fine with this episode
Just in general Smith and Coleman once again carrying this episode. My god I love this pair so much
Personally I like how this story is built up and I don’t mind the ending but I wish we just got a bit more tension and horror elements in the middle. This episode was a bit short and I feel like those 2-3 minutes could’ve served the story well if used to show the monster attacks more directly. I mean it’s a sinking sub with lights flickering and an alien on the loose picking people off one by one, and it just feels like it never really delivered the kind of suspense or horror the premise could’ve. I’m not asking for blood, just a lil more creative camera work and editing instead of rubber hands coming out of the ceiling.
The classic who Ice Warriors did look pretty goofy, the new armour design is really solid. Big, imposing and threatening, definitely one of the best glow ups for a classic monster
I love that one thing that convinces the 2nd in command that the Doctor and Clara are spies is that they speak Russian so well. And of course, they can't turn off the TARDIS's translation circuit. Clever.
Faolancortez is an absolute beauty
I came here specifically to big up David Warner. RIP in peace to a real one.
Very good episode. I like Clara and 11. Some rocky episodes in series 7 but also some underrated classics.
I always thought this was one of the better episodes of its season... I mean it got me to listen to duran duran for the first time in years... thats gotta count for something... :)
What, nothing about the late, great David Warner? For shame.
I really like this episode, it's great in so many ways. I agree that the redesigned Ice Warrior looks amazing, but it was a big mistake to take it out of its armour. That just looked terrible.
A few days ago I watched a video of the sinking of the Kursk. I think I will watch this again.
Regarding the creature inside the armour, I think this is another case of a mystery being revealed without good cause. The scary thing about the Daleks as a child in the 60's was that we never saw the mutant inside the shell. It was hinted at, we saw a claw emerge from under a blanket, when Ian and the Doctor commandeer a Dalek, remove the occupant, wrapped in said blanket, and leave it to one side. Otherwise all we knew was through the reactions of humans, completely repulsed.
That, to me, was more scary, as it sparked my imagination and that trumps any prosthetic, dummy or CGI effect. In 2005, we saw the mutant and I thought 'meh'.
Same here, I never really thought about the Ice Warriors true appearance and I had no desire to see them. They were a huge disappointment though. Looked weak and helpless, no wonder they needed scary armour
Same with the Ice Warriors
“Memberberries” you sir are in fact a man of culture
That epsiode is better than series 12 and thirteen combined I would take it over that. It's also funny the Russian and amercian. Conflict is like cats and dogs conflict
The only real issue I have with the out of suit Ice Warrior is how skinny their body seems. Like you said, goofy looking. We didn't need to see the body, the suit was intimidating enough.
It's one of the few TV stories (although, TBH, I can't think of any others off the top of my head) where the day is saved by negotiation.
All I know is that every time I watch this episode I have an irresistible urge to listen to “hungry like the wolf” for about a week straight. Even now I’m itching to switch to Music and play it… it’s uncanny.
Are there any episodes I should give a miss in series 8? I recently began my very delayed dr who phase a couple of months ago😂This is a bit of strange request and I doubt anyone will see this but I loved the RTD era and I have watched all of the 9th 10th and 11th doctors episodes however I feel like it started to go downhill a bit with Moffat even though there are still some great episodes. I know there are some amazing episodes with the 12th doctor but having started the series I didn’t find it great are there any episodes I should definitely watch and any I can miss without struggling to understand the storyline or possibly a better order to watch them in?
The best part of the moment here, when Clara discover's how dangerous TARDIS travel can be, is when she has a similar scene in Deep Breath with a 'new-faced Doctor' just up and leaving her to the flesh seeking robots. Tardis travel is not for the faint of heart. Just ask Tegan Jovanka. "Brave heart, Tegan" ...
Gatos is the most self indulgent of the writers. Even Chris chibnell understands there’s an audience that needs to engage. Gatos has always been ‘look at me. How clever am I?’
It’s what drove down quality in Sherlock too.
I don't see much wrong with this episode at all. It had a proper conclusion unlike power of 3, a good villain and a good setting.
This was my first Doctor Who episode
I loved a good base under siege episode. Although weirdly I have no memory of this episode
I kind of find it funny that two people within this episode go on to play the same role on another show and one follows the other.
Only just realised I forgot to give this episode my own personal ranking out of 10. while the others were both a nice solid 8 this just bumps down on and is a sturdy 7 out of 10. I like the handling of the political themes and Smith is great as always but for me there is just something about it that's missing. I dunno what it is but it doesn't thrill me but it's god parts are good so a sturdy 7 is as fair as I can get.
RIP David Warner
Interested to see what you say on "Hide", that's one of the less remembered episodes (I enjoyed it)
Visually this episode is great; the conclusion is highly anti-dramatic.
never knew the ice warriors had massive GYATTS
The main thing I remembered about this episode was it took place during the year I was born. That’s it.
Personally I really love this episode, I understand people's criticisms with the ice warrior leaving the suit but I don't think it's so bad to bring the rest of the episode down
Here it is, the first episode I completely forgot existed
I didn't expect normal russian people representation when I watched the episode but i liked it! Except some little errors in using russian language i was surprised that it happened to be good
What do you mean "with how this monster used to look it would be hard to fear them"? This is as accurate of a redesign as the Sea Devils in Chibnall era. He even has those Lego hands.
Highlight of that season. Freaking awesome!
Such a wasted opportunity for David Warner who really should've played the Doctor in years gone by.
There was no aggressor in the cold war, lol. Those jokey Soviets, you just have to laugh, to quote Clive James, "his face was a revelation, history had never happened to it, and you needed all your Christian charity to hope that it never would."
I'm pretty sure, ICBM submarines have to rise to periscope depth to launch their missiles.
personally i didn’t like this episode as much maybe bc the slow ice warrior seemed a bit jokey to me the submarine setting and the story itself is so similar to chibnalls first stories with tennant, 42 minutes on that cargo ship where they’re fighting a star in a suit. to be fair i didn’t like clara as a companion at this point bc the doctor felt weaker to me. the dalek episode was so good tho with christopher and billie piper. clara was always too independent for me. she’s too strong she’s impossible and the doctor doesn’t shine bc of it. she takes the isnt ur usual companion if anything she’s super unrealistic to me smh cuz she has absolutely no real anxiety too. i wish i could like her but the matt smith and clara chemistry never felt right. peter capaldi and clara were amazing tho even tho i still even prefer peter capaldis other companion billie she’s super underrated
Clara is a millenial companion.
Throwaway fluff which I'll probably never re-watch.
Even Monster of Peladon bears more of a re-watch than this completely pointless, Doctor Who by numbers, 40 minutes.
Still better than the sequel episode set on mars.
I loved the episode, one I've watched a number of times. I guess it helps when you lived through the 70s and 80s
'Das Boot' are made for walking? :-)
Who else is excited for David Tennants return as the Doctor?
~00:20 "It's the 80's! Do a lot of coke and vote for Ronald Reagan!"
This is the only Series 7 episode I like
It never gets not funny listening to people trying to pronounce 'Das Boot'. 😄
I forgot that this episode existed, or at least I thought it was during the Capaldi run. 11 and Clara is a bit hazy in my memory, I did not enjoy that time, might have been the writing.
Series 7 is so underrated
An Ice Warrior vs Communism