It might just be me, but I don't count a paywall to be a adequate form of releasing errata. As far as I can tell, its just available if you pay for it on D&D beyond. Edit: I saw a guy who posted the change online and i think its pretty easy to cheese. If you can get 50' walking speed, the jump spell (or a ring of jumping), and 16 strength, then you pretty much are in the same situation as before the errata, with the only limiting factor being the ceiling height.
@@cp1cupcake The original version let you jump in the air 1 foot to glide 5 feet 30 times RAW, turning 30 feet of movement into 150 feet for free at level one. A magic item or spell, a 16 in strength, and your reaction to go less than 2/3 of that distance (because at least 10 feet of your movement has to be up and you can only glide 50 feet max) hardly seems like a comparable "easy" cheese.
@@cp1cupcake They have released an official errata doc on both the D&D Beyond website and the D&D website. On both websites, the doc can be accessed via a free article and is not behind any paywalls.
As a DM I will just change it to "After you have descended for 5 feet you can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you." So you cannot start gliding for the first 5ft of the fall. It make sense that gliding should start with some vertical falling to build up the up thrust. It will still be fun and useful as you have climb speed to enable you to use the feature regularly, but not broken.
The thing I'd personally do is say "you must be at least 10 ft in the air before you can glide" so you're not just jumping from the floor like in this example. You'd have to start from a ledge or the like.
Sincerely, glide reminds me the discussion that Chris had about high level campaigns. The fact that you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. This feature seems completely unreasonable. I would like to play a hadozee, but if I do it, I would only use it when I jump from a tree, escaping from a tower, etc. Using it to get extra movement per turn does not even seem fun. Having a monkey jumping like mario and moving faster than the mounted paladin while dashing is just ridiculous.
@@oicmorez4129 That's how the original Yazirian worked. I'd argue matching Simic should be fine (2/1instead of 5/1) or keep 5/1 and insert a 10ft initial drop requirement. You'd still be able to set it off with a bonus action outdoors but dungeon crawls would limit its use significantly.
pretty clear to me. The movement cost should have been half or "for every 5 feet that you fall, you glide 10, and it costs you 5 feet of movement." Then get rid of that "resilience" feature that is just bad design, the Mary Sue or whatever 'can do it all' archetype. Who spreads their wings after ONE foot of falling? I love that Treant picked up on the loophole though. It really is entertaining. Oh i almost forgot, since the race was clearly made for desperate gamers, give it darkvision and a lucky feat.
@@cjd2889 Don’t forget they also have climbing speed, so as long as there is any vertical surface (tree, wall, ?friendly PC?), they can climb up and glide down without jumping at all. Or with higher STR score, when they can jump 3-4 ft with Standing High Jump and 6-8 ft with High Jump, so they can still move 54 - 62 ft every round without any climbing and without vertical surfaces around and while using only one high jump per round (if DM limits it this way). So consider this speed their minimum.
With respect to the Glide, I think the best approach would be that the DM and player agree on a "minimum height" for the glide to take effect. This way, there's a benchmark you have to reach before it counts, and you'll need to make build considerations to get that sort of benefit. For example, if they set it to 5 feet, then they'll either need a 14 STR with a 10-foot running start (spending 15 feet to glide 25, with no attacks of opportunity) or employ the use of a spell or ability to increase their jump to meet the minimum (e.g. the Jump spell can get an 8 STR PC with a running start to spend 16 feet to glide 30). Wouldn't have to be 5 feet, but agreeing to some kind of minimum can keep the ability's power without resorting to 1-foot jumps, which any character with 8 STR or more can do without a running start. Mechanic aside, though, there are characters that could have a lot of fun with this. Jump and Levitae spells come to mind, as well as the Beast Barbarian, and, weirdly enough, the Monk, notably the Ascendant Dragon Monk (take your fly speed, then when you fall, capitalize on how high you flew). People are going to be theorycrafting for a WHILE.
Like, you can tell the intention was for the PC to use the climbing speed to gain their falling height, but since you're not always going to be able to climb something, people are just inevitably going to look for ways to make jumping equal gliding flight.
I think 10 ft. is a good minimum height. That’s the height at which you start to take fall damage, and you can’t reach that height without the aid of magic and leaving the reach of a Medium creature.
Or you can just climb something and jump. Granted there isn't always something to climb but I could stand on the shoulders of another party member jump one foot into the air and still likely get 30 feet. But agreed jumping 1 foot off the ground shouldn't allow you to glide.
This is a deep cut: it looks like the Spelljammer book is re-introducing three of the original races from Star Frontiers from the early 1980s. The Hadozee is the Yazirian, the Plasmoid is the Dralasite, the Thri-kreen is the Vrusk. Yes-I know thri-kreen have been in D&D previously. But obvious parallels.
I would absolutely NOT rule that it's allowed for you to jump 30 times in 6 seconds. That's a nonsense ruling. BUT that said it's still incredible. Misty Step went from a 30ft range to a 150ft range for a Hadozee.
You're completely okay with people shooting fire out of their hands, but as soon as someone tries to perform an amazing feat of athleticism your Suspension of disbelief breaks? Just for references I timed myself, I managed to do 24 jumps in 6 seconds
@zhang Bill I can't believe any actual fan of D&D just made this argument. Spells are part of the world we're choosing to play in. Also, so are physics. There is no other form of movement that involves making a 1 foot jump, going completely horizontal to glide 5 feet forward (picture how low they are to the ground) then somehow getting back to their feet and repeating the process 29 more times in 6 seconds. You could pull that move off clumsily a handful of times in 6 seconds and you'd probably be just scraping your knees as you tried to go from horizontal back to some kind of position to jump again. It's surprising how much the community is worried about this being used in this way, I just can't imagine many reasonable DMs allowing this. It's busted for other reasons, but the 30 1 foot jumps isn't one of them.
@@zhangbill1194 Please, jump and glide 5 feet 30 times in 6 seconds. This isn't jumping up and down like a dork, this is jumping and then gliding 5 ft and then jumping again. Give me a visual of how that looks 30 times over in the span of 6 seconds... You magic argument is irrelevant so I'm not going to bother responding.
Dimension Door 2500 feet of movement in 6 seconds. Its also on the Warlock spell list to be able to use it on a short rest basis. For chuckles you could use Action Surge and two Dimension Door castings to get 5000 feet on 6 seconds. There's going to be some _wild_ thought experiments around the physics surrounding this nonsense.
@@rasmusrasmussen6119 Speed of sound is 767 mph where 5000 feet per 6 seconds is something like 568ish. That's most definitely subsonic, but still this is a living creature that is going to near instantly accelerate to 568 mph then land and decelerate to like 3 mph also near instantly. Wind resistance be damned, that Hadozee is going to be a smear. Even without Action Surge as that is around 284 mph to 3.
@Andrew In game? Totally. But there is a joy to be found in trying to apply reality to fantasy, see every discussion on IRL magic or even better the book _What if?: Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions_ by Randall Munroe aka XKCD
I think a simple fix for the Hadozee (and the one I plan to use) is to only allow them to use their Glide when falling, but not when jumping. I think the design intention matches this, considering that they have a climb speed. I see a climb speed combined with the monkey flavor and the flying squirrel wings, and I assume that the glide abiltiy was intended for them to leap off of things they have climbed up. However my tables have specific rules for what is considered a fall vs what is considered a jump, as I think RAW they aren't super clear. To explain a bit, I think the easiest solution is just that jumping doesn't necessarily cause you to fall. With both vertical and horizontal jumps, I think the entirety of the jump's arc should be considered part of the jump, so no falling involved. I would only consider a character falling after a jump if they somehow descended a greater distance than they ascended, such as if they high jumped off the edge of something already high. Or if they were somehow incapacitated during the jump, I guess? I see it as more as a controlled series of movements, instead of a wild launch into the air and then an uncontrolled freefall. If you go beyond that controlled arc of the jump however, you start to fall. For example, if a character jumps straight up 30ft, and comes down 30ft, that's just a jump. But if they go up 30ft and somehow down 40ft, now I would consider that falling. At least the last 10ft of it anyway. Up to you if you choose to include the second half/initial downward part of the jump in the fall distance for the damage calculation, I personally do not. So in the example I would say the character "fell" 10ft, after their jump. I could see the arguement for 40ft though. imo whatever feature of their body/spell/item that allowed them to jump 30ft can withstand a controlled drop 30ft, basically. I'm not a physics guy, but the way it makes sense to me is that if their legs can withstand the force to launch them up, they need to be able to handle that much kinetic force when they land? A controlled landing where you land on your feet doesn't seem like a fall to me. For example, the way I personally rule the Jump spell is that if you use it to jump straight up, you don't take damage from simply coming back down to the ground/starting position. Some tables might rule it differently, but I think the spell would be in-canon pretty poorly designed if that were the case? People would cast it and immediately hurt their legs from high jumping if they even had a little strength. How many level 3 GIthyanki warriors would be splatted after using their racial spell without feather fall? How many level 4 monks would do the same with Step of the Wind because they don't have Slow Fall yet? Same with class features like the Beast Barbarian's jump or items like the Boots of Striding/Springing. But honestly I think 5e needs more outlined rules for what is considered a fall, and how that differs from what is considered part of a jump. This is just a ruling I use, nothing official. Though I don't think there is anything in the rules that necessarily disagrees me, but I could be wrong on that. That being said I haven't had issues with my jump vs falling rules in my games, and I find it solves the weird edge-cases. So, if the Hadozee player wanted to jump 1ft or 20ft, they can do so, but nothing extra happens because they have not fallen. I think this way using the ability actually takes investment, planning, or environmental factors. It turns it into a situational advantage you can choose to build or plan around instead of a character-defining level 1 feature. And you avoid immersion breaking wave-dash cheese.
Just when you think the folks at D&D are on top of things, they publish a broken mechanic like Hadozee Glide. They need to bring in people like Chris et al to play test the final draft versions and expose these broken mechanics before they are published.
@@TreantmonksTemple I think this is why folks are really nervous about One D&D. People have replied to UA surveys in the past and it seems to go into a void (not everything). I hope they are truly listening on the upcoming survey.
I see a lot of people suggesting minimum fall distances, but that still turns Misty Step into 150ft of movement that doesn't use your movement if you tp straight up. As written, I feel like you could make a very silly jumping Ashardalon's Stride character.
Or Echo Knight - 225 ft glide without preparation or 300 ft glide if you have one round to prepare for cost of 15 ft of movement (so you can still move 10ft and do one high jump for total movement of 260-335 with speed 30 ft) is broken as hell. Storm Sorcerer can glide 50 ft if he casts leveled spell for no movement cost. Too much!
Big question here: If you are at zero speed, could you use something like a spell to teleport upwards and then still glide? How does this work with grapple? Say you are flying and you are grappled by a flying opponent. Grapple reduces speed to zero, but since glide costs zero movement does that mean you can move the grappler with you?
@@stickjohnny really? I've never seen a DM forbidding it. What's the rationale? There is no thing like holding the hands or the mouth of a character during a grapple to inhibit spell casting in 5e.
@@stickjohnny Oh no. I should clarify. These are two separate questions. So the first is if you are in the process of gliding down can't you also teleport up higher to increase your glide distance? The other question is how glide works when grappled in midair.
Sorcerer 8, fighter 2. Distant meta magic with action surge. Dimension Door twice using action surge and double the distance for a total of 2000ft in the air. 2000x5=10,000ft 10,000!!!!
@@trevorkortman4159 it's happening in one turn! Level 8 sorcerer's have 2 level 4 spell slots, action surge allows you to cast two spells on one turn, the distant meta magic option allows you to double the distance of a spell. It's crazy fast. Dnd rule in XGE states you fall 500ft per round also. It would take 4 rounds to hit the ground
Even without the jumping, if you are near a wall you have a climb speed of 30 feet. That is 150 feet of glide right there whenever you are near a wall. Hell, if there's anything big enough to give cover on the battlefield you can climb to the top and leap off to glide. Even without bunnyhopping, you can absolutely get excellent movement out of the glide ability on any battlefield other than a flat plain. Hell, using the battlefield in Treantmonk's example you could use your climb speed to get to the top of the cart then jump off and glide across the map, no jumping abuse required at all.
I think that’s actually the intended use of it. Climb 30 feet and then glide. But they didn’t clarify how it would work in other situations. Especially with their piecemeal and disjointed rules for falling.
Imagine a Hadozee dives off a 500ft cliff. They Glide 2500ft, which is almost a kilometre (or half a mile), in SIX SECONDS. Cast Dimension Door on top of that cliff instead to teleport directly up and glide 5000ft, and I think you're now Gliding faster than the speed of sound??? And you still get your action. Like, isn't gliding from the top of a cliff the intended use case that a casual, non-optimiser would think of first? This is bananas Have we considered how "at no movement cost to you" might be interpreted differently? Like, maybe specifically the descent doesn't cost you movement. I really can't believe the supersonic fighter plane Hadozee would be RAI. Alternatively, Grapple Death Squad with Hadozee anyone???
500 ft fall limit (game mechanics). That's 284 mph max. The world record in reality is 247. Also in reality a winged suit is a 3 to 1 ratio. So there's that.
@@jakemall hehe good point. So the Hadozee can only reach the speeds of a regular airplane, not a supersonic one! (Edit: I checked, that's still a lot slower than a plane. Significantly faster than an F1 car though!)
Two things you didn't mention about the glide feature: It isn't obvious that it is affected by difficult terrain. Also, if you cast misty step, you can teleport diagonally to dramatically increase the distance you travel.
@@VioletRM I could see things like gliding through small branches, or heavy precipitation/strong winds qualifying as air-born difficult terrain. There’s a precedent for that in the Storm Sphere spell.
@@elliotbryant3459 That is a good point actually. For example, the Plant Growth spell describes a radius of 150 feet. And it says that anything moving in that area needs to spend extra movement. The most literal way to read that is that it should affect flying creatures even when they are 100 feet off the ground. For gliding, since gliding itself doesn't cost movement, nothing happens there, but it probably costs you 4 feet of movement to jump that 1 foot off the ground.
I think a more "realistic" version of your movement example is, what if the PC started onto of the boxes in that lower wagon, that's a good 8 feet up for sure, so just falling off that is at least 40 ft of free movement to start the turn assuming the DM doesn't allow a jump, which is also silly. Kind of weird they didn't add a minimum or fall distance to trigger it or something, and even then it's a strange game design decision.
If they didn't want the glide to be repeatable mutliple times per turn, they could have just stated "The first time you fall on a turn" or a similar "once per turn" clause.
I’m going to apply two adjustments to glide in my games, you need to be at least 40-50 ft above a spot where you can reasonably land and the distance you can glide is halved if you don’t jump into the glide or lose 10 ft of height to build up speed. This way someone who plays a Hadozee in my games can’t just abuse the glide without spending movement or positioning themselves beforehand in order to do so
@@jasondahfolf4325 I guess it all depends on your players, if I had one that used the glide ability every once in a while it probably wouldn't be worth preemptively putting a limitation on it. If someone wants to abuse it like Chris' example in the video (or even a more 'realistic' example like mine above), I'd have a talk with them about it. I generally don't like imposing penalties before anyone has taken advantage of a rule that is poorly written.
I’ve nerfed this considerably for my own home games. Simply put, moving the 5 feet horizontally still takes up movement but vertically does not. So, that character could hang out in the air for a while descending slowly, but they don’t get to move an insane distance and are still limited by their move speed.
I've been working on this in my head lol. With all the movements bonuses available out there, this doesn't really get MORE broken until you consider large scale warfare. How often are you fighting 20+ enemies of medium + size in huge areas where that kind of movement is relevant? Do you see something I don't?
counterargument to "I don't really see any value to further movement": that's 'cause you're only thinking in terms of a normal combat engagement. Think about that instead in terms of dungeon exploration or overland travel, or travel through a city. You could use Cunning Action and your action to dash twice, and go 450 ft. in 6 seconds. That's 51 miles per hour, which is modern highway speed. You can cheese plot events with this by delivering messages faster than any other form of communication available to your party, for example. It's genuinely really useful for most circumstances where a time limit is involved. Also, if you get a fly speed from your class, you can alternate 1 foot of upward flight with gliding to go absurd speeds _in the air,_ totally ignoring terrain. Now you can scout an entire dungeon (and uh, aggro literally every enemy in the dungeon) without triggering traps!
According to Xanathar's optional falling rule, you fall up to 500 feet per round. This limits the glide range to 2500 ft per 6 seconds. So there is a cap on your speed.
Player: I jump one foot off the ground and use my hadozee glide to- GM: To fall flat on your face. You are now prone and can use half of your remaining movement to get back on your feet. Honestly as simple as that in my book. Though honestly, seeing a hadozee wavedash across the entire map in a single turn at level 1 would be pretty hilarious. In terms of pure mechanics, yes you can *technically* make the hadozee glide be broken but it is not reasonable to be able to do. I would also rule that you don't have the reaction time to be able to both spread your "wings" and brace yourself from impact in the span of a 1-foot drop. There has to be some sort of boundary for realism in your game otherwise nothing makes sense. Similarly, it's not reasonable for someone to automatically travel the total distance of a fall in a single turn, therefore it's not reasonable for a hadozee to glide the entire distance of that fall either. There was a video Zee Bashew did a few weeks ago about the jump spell and someone in the comments said something to the effect of "Just because you can't travel the full distance of a long jump in a single turn doesn't mean that you don't keep your momentum into the next." To me, this makes complete sense. If you jump across a ravine and then don't make it, you don't just fall like a Looney Tunes character after they walked off the edge of a cliff.
1000 times this statement. I was honestly more than a little disappointed that Treantmonk would even entertain the notion of "wavedashing" at all - much less completely ignore the sane ruling as an option.
I wonder if the simple solution here is to Home Rule gliding. Start with a no drag rule for gliding. I mean from a practical stance, gliding requires little to no friction beyond air resistance. All you have is momentum (you can't flap your wings for additional thrust). I'd also probably add a requirement of either a 10' drop (like the Yazirian) or a 10' running start and jump to initiate the glide. This would limit wave jumping to 110' and remove any confusion regarding provoking OAs where it matters most (the initial movement). I think this should also apply to Simic. I'm not opposed to the additional movement on its own. That's easy enough to come by.
From the PHB: "For example, you don't provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe's reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy." Falling, descending, or whatever is ultimately forced by gravity, not by your movement. So it still bypasses attacks of opportunity.
@@seacliff217 is it still forced movement when you are fully directing where you will go? The mechanics of the gliding feature start off with "You can move...", you're not incapacitated here, you're choosing your path, there is agency to your locomotion [particularly when you are the one initiating the descent]. The section on opportunity attacks describes their avoidance via forced movement in relation to falling as "if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy" -Here you are causing yourself to move past their reach, not gravity. Gravity would have sent you careening straight down. And you're not an aimless dandelion seed tempest tossed tossed in the wind here. You could have chosen at least 1, if not several precise destinations to safely descend to. Why should you be less liable for heedless routing than a creature with a flying speed would be? If having "wind resistance" were a a qualifier for for avoiding opportunity attacks, then why should any winged creature require flyby to avoid them when moving in a downward trajectory?
@@elliotbryant3459 It's not "forced movement" because the term doesn't even exist in 5e. My point is that there is more than just what players refer to as "forced movement" in the opportunity attack rules.
@@seacliff217 Right, “forced movement” is shorthand for one of those external OA negating circumstances. But I’m not buying that an OA negating circumstance [like gravity, gusts, an explosion, or being dragged/shoved] was the cause of your passing through their reach in this scenario. A random act of fate would have sent you straight down. If you were unable to make decisions for yourself (incapacitated), that is the direction you’d have gone, OA free.
If your DM does allow the hop-glide version then a multiclass scribe wizard tempest cleric that used Ashardalon's Stride would be kind of hilarious for dealing with small armies of minions. 250' of movement that definitely doesn't allow for opportunity attacks and if you have a lightning spell of the right level that allows you to shift the damage and throw in a 10' knock back effect.
As a DM I wouldn't allow the glide feature to be used when jumping and landing from the same height. I can see some really awesome build ideas. Like a Hadozee either mounted on a PC centaur or playing a mounted pally build. Your mount runs into battle and you high jump off it and glide around attacking things and then glide back to the mount and skedaddle. I'll average your jumping off point at +5 feet above ground and if your Str mod is a +3 (I'm assuming you had to take mounted combatant +4 if you didn't). This means on a warhorse, you could run 60 feet in, jump off glide around for 55+ feet, mount back up and then have your warhorse dash out for 60 more feet. I love the visual, and it doesn't feel as cheep as high jumping from the ground and gliding 5 feet. It feels like a character investment. Like something a Dothraki would do if it had wings. It gives your character a fighting style outside of the mechanical, and I just love that.
I think the intended way that glidding works here is you can climb to your walking speed. And so climbing for example 15ft, you can then glide 75ft and it costed you only 15ft of movement. For the way you describe it, I don't think any DM would allow it because when you think about it, doing a high jump is not just hopping but instead you have to brace yourself, bend the knees, use your arm to help do a weight redistribution to help you jump the highest you can. Maybe RAW it's not taking time in a turn, because usually the "time" is taking from the distance you do jumping is costing you movement. But if you do 30 high jumps in a turn, it does'nt seem realistic and doing all your attacks and/or spells in addition of that does'nt make sense to me.
This is why i hope the new rules in September can give a universal understanding of what these player options, and potential NPC options can and cannot do for DMs in this game. Some things need to be explained or tweaked on all new projects to make sure that the game is balanced. The rules for Fliying, Gliding as well as the Slow Fall Monk ability and the Feather Fall all need to be more consise so that the Player and the DM can agree with a clearer sense of the rules, or at least, it's intention. Homebrew is cool. Universal brew is better.
Yeah, Glide is absurd. Maybe it doesn't have to be, RAW, but we know that some number of players just won't be able to help themselves, and will abuse it. My take on what to do? {1} Add a 60ft Glide speed to the movement speed types of the Hadozee, and define Gliding as a standard kind of movement that consumes speed as normal. Having a core rules definition of Gliding, where you move horizontally while falling (with a minimum fall distance), would make the mechanic easily available for other sources. That'd be really cool, since it'd open up all sorts of space for stuff like a magical cape of gliding, spells, features for other creatures, artificers to make hang gliders, and so forth. {2} Clarify the interaction between falling and jumping. I know there's a common home brew rule where you don't count as falling until you're below the elevation you jumped from. That'd really help out with any Hadozee exploit bullshit. If you wanted to glide across the battlefield, you'd have to jump off the top of a tree if you wanted to glide real distances in combat.
I feel like a really easy homebrew to fix this "problem" is just to add "*If you would fall more than or equal to 10ft* you can move up to 5ft horizontally for every 1ft you decend in the air, at no movement cost to you". Characters below 24 Str can't just bunny-hop, it incentivizes you to use your climb speed in order to activate the ability and thematically it just makes way more sense. You'd need to fall for a bit before your skin-membranes would catch the wind and let you glide y'know. Also makes the Jump spell actually worth considering and i just love when you can make largely ignored spells actually useful!
Yeah I don't think they thought the glide through. Any reasonable DM is going to put the kibosh on this strategy and houserule a minimum vertical distance you'd need to start gliding, and possibly even impose a "floor" to it as well where if you go below X feet above the ground you land prone instead of on your feet as you waited too long to 'pull up' from the glide. Personally, I'd say at minimum you'd need 10 feet of clearance to start a glide and you'd need to pull up by 3 ft to land on your feet. As for optimizing for gliding, if you took 3 levels of Fighter (Echo Knight) you could have your echo hang out 30 feet right above you, then on your turn have it go up another 30 feet and swap places with it for the cost of a bonus action and 15 ft of movement. That's 60 vertical feet you can use for gliding. You'll need to use a reaction to avoid fall damage, but you're ~300 feet away (RAW) at that point. This would work even better if you managed to climb 30 feet up a wall first.
Homebrew needed to solve Glide issue: You need to use reaction for every Glide use. You cannot change direction mid-air. You cannot use your arms and legs while gliding (or you immediately fall). This would solve most abuses (attacking mid-air and disengaging for free, abusing spells like Ashardalon’s Stride or Misty Step, doing 30 small jumps per round,…). You would still get nice speed boost (movement 54-62 ft with reasonable STR), one disengage per round (as Goblin has) for cost of reaction and free Feather Fall for yourself, but nothing broken. There would still remain Storm Sorcerers’ 50ft glide for BA (as long as they cast leveled spell) and that 225-300ft glide of Echo Knight for cost of 15ft of movement. But Echo Knight is already broken and fixing it has always been a problem… But still, no-brained race for a Ranger!
Warcaster...I don't need my hands to cast... I'm not sure about the directional restrictions. Remember, this ability already exists with Simic with a 2 to 1 ratio. I'm not sure this breaks Ashardalon's stride MORE than that did unless you're doing a warfare campaign.
I think, realistically as a DM, I would just use Crawford's argument for jump and do a personal rewrite of the rules so that glide only works when falling. So to explain to those who don't know, Crawford explained that when descending from a jump you wouldn't count the height jumped into fall damage. So the way I would handle this is that you can only glide from a falling state, not the descent of the jump. Does the RAW say 5 feet of movement for 1 foot of falling? No. It does not. It says descending, but I think assuming a fall night be reasonable.... MIGHT BE. Problem on top of this is dealing with climbing, not jumping. If you're fighting in the woods and someone with no climb speed and glide come a tree and glides off then they would glide 75 feet for the cost of 15 feet of climbing (assume base speed is 30). But these guys have a climb speed. So it's much, MUCH worse.
The Hadozee jumping 30 times a round is like the peasant railgun. Let them jump once and the "glide" takes enough time that they don't have time ina single round to jump and glide again.
Me:Tell me that you don't want to see Hadozee monks without saying that you don't want to see Hadozee monks Treantmonk: Go over my last paragraph before my sign-off...
It seems like there's been very little Quality Control done in here. We already had a race with a built-in glide feature: the Simic Hybrid. Their feature states: "You have ray-like fins that you can use as wings to slow your fall or allow you to glide. When you fall and aren’t incapacitated, you can subtract up to 100 feet from the fall when calculating falling damage, and you can move up to 2 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend." My question would be: in what way is a Hadozee "gliding" that makes it different than the "glide" used by the Hybrid? If "gliding" were itself a kind of movement (like climbing/swimming), then it seems its mechanics should be relatively consistent across the field of potential actions ANY player can make.
Having played these guys back when they were called Yazirians in the old Star Frontiers game, the Glide ability isn't broken if you simply remove the "doesn't cost movement" clause. No need to specify special use cases like "must fall 10 feet first" or "I'll allow it unless I think you're abusing it". Now it becomes a weaker version of flying that I would totally be ok with as a DM. Don't want to allow Aarakocra in your campaign? Say the nerfed monkey exists in your world and now everything is fine. (Or heck, give the Aarakocra this ability.) Your players will still try to find ways to climb up things and jump off, or maybe even high jump and glide, but it's no big deal because they can't "go infinite" on their movement speed. You get to say "Yes and" to all their wacky and/or creative glide attempts instead of pumping the brakes all the time.
I don't think a typical DM would allow a player to jump 30 times in one round. If one of my players asked me that, I would look them straight in the eye, pull out a stopwatch, and say "do you really think you can jump 30 times in 6 seconds? Oh also, every jump must be 1 foot high." The theoretical maximum assuming earth gravity and no air resistance and the force required to kick off with your feet being instantaneous, is like...12 jumps. I would expect an average person with air resistance and not infinitely fast feet to do maybe 6 jumps (about 1 jump per second). Now, what I think a lot more DMs would allow is if you do get launched a long way up, either through a big jump or another method, (maybe your barbarian friend throws a small Hadozee into the sky), then I would imagine most DMs would allow the gliding to work as advertised. Gliders if they are falling a long way can indeed move very fast, way faster than people can run. So there's still potential for a very powerful character here even with a DM that doesn't allow everything. But 30 1 foot jumps in 6 seconds? Yeah...that's so obviously silly and unrealistic, I would expect most DMs to not allow it.
WotC has really been pumping out books at a faster rate (even more coming next year), and the lack of play testing is really showing. Really feels like they are just trying to rush stuff out to keep sales up.
I think the big fix would have been to document the issue of being prone if you do this jumping maneuver. Jumping one foot up and gliding 5 feet would basically make you glide into your belly this being prone. Maybe if you fell from a space at least twice as high as your height would cause you not to be prone after the glide.
If a Hadozee climbed Mt Everest at 29000ft they would be able to travel over 27 miles instantly. If they jumped from the peak of Mount Celestia they could fly to half a dozen planes in a moment, before landing in Bytopia. Next character I make will be a Hadozee mountain climber. A simple Misty Step gives them 150' of movement. Dimension Door yields about half a mile. I would just have gliding use their movement speed. Otherwise it is a short range teleport with the added bonus of never failing and being able to see all the distance between launch and landing.
Easy fix for the exploit is to require a reaction for the glide distance the same as.for reducing fall damage to zero. That way you can do it once per turn.
Using RAW and sage advice, you would fall 500-580 feet in a round, so you can Dimension Door straight up at a maximum of 500 feet or something, and you’re moving about a half mile horizontally with the Hadozee in 6 seconds. Of course, this is kinda silly, but that’s what the book is saying.
I agree it's not worth going out of your way to buff an already busted ability, but if you were already building a warlock, I think the Otherworldy Leap (Jump spell at will, tripling jump distance for 1 minute, no concentration) invocation has found a niche case where it's worth taking, even if just for the ability to move around that much making the forced movement of Repelling Blast ridiculously versatile. I dub the build The Pool Monkey (like pool shark, but it's a monkey...).
A simple fix to the scenario: creatures can perform a high jump once per turn. Additionally, they can make another whenever they take the dash action. -Or if you didn't want to limit jumping in general, you could just apply that limit to the hadozee's gliding feature. Personally, I would apply it to jumping in general, just for some manner of verisimilitude and to safeguard against any future jumping bean cheese. -All that said, I've wished there were published mechanics for 3/4 jumps, like in platformer games, where you can move both upwards and forwards in one jump, and this is the closest we've gotten to that.
The old Star Frontiers rules for Yazarian reads: “A Yazirian can glide 1 meter for every meter he is above the ground when he starts. He must start at least 10 meters above the ground. The maximum distance a Yazirian can glide depends on the gravity of the planet, as shown below.” For a world with 1G, the chart shows a max of 10m. Literally, all WotC had to do was translate metric to standard units and they were done.
The designers played too much Smash Bros. and introduced a character race with honest-to-God wavedashing. Or they can get high up in the air and cast Monkey Missile by gliding into things at very high speed (though I would rule that they would take damage themselves).
I wonder why the same discussions didn't happen about the Simic Hybrid's from Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica? They also have a glide mechanic but it's worded differently. I wonder why they didn't stick with that original wording if it wasn't a problem?
I would probably rule that to use the Glide, you would need to have a fall/jump of at least 10 feet. While it doesn't address all the problems with the feature, I do believe that it's the most fair and simple alteration, since you would need to use the "take no damage" reaction if you wanted to not fall prone at the end of the glide, which in turn stops the "hop-and-go" shenanigans.
scout rogue (3)'s Skirmisher reaction could work well with gliding [since your Movement can include Jumping] if paired with some other jump improving features. Maybe take the scout dip on a beast barbarian, or an artificer w/ boots of springing and striding. Vengeance Paladin (7) could also do the reaction movement as part of an opportunity attack.
I am super excited about the Hadozee. Out of all the new races, I think this one is my favorite. I loved using the mantaray wings on my simic hybrid, the uniqueness of glide is really fun.
I can't see any DM allowing jump + glide. However, shenanigans with dimension door or misty step might be allowed by some, which is already nuts. This feature has to be rewritten.
In a fantasy game with space monkeys, I am tormented by the question of how Hadozee put on pants past their weird membranes, or is all of their armor and clothing tear-away? Plz respond to my letters, Crawford.
Ok, the only thing i can think of is that *you are still falling* when you glide, making you land prone (which makes sense based on the way a sugar glider glides) and the hadozee stat block says nothing about landing upright. So here's what im thinking of maybe mobile feat and the jump spell, either way, needing to stand up seems like a serious nerf and id bet if you asked jcraw, then he'd say you need to stand Edit: i suppose doing little short hops that dont cause fall damage means you land upright RAW, and also the once per turn fall damage cancel also fixes this if you jump from higher up.
The homebrew fix I intend to run, is to cap the rate of descent in glide mode to 20 feet per turn, or slowfall speed in other words. It'll still be fantastic, that's 100 feet of movement for for no cost, but it's at least reasonable. I'll throw on a minimum fall distance to use the ability too of course.
I'm gonna level with ya'll, the idea that an average group will roll with this interpretation of the Hadozee glide is bananas and it gives the optimization community a bad rap that people genuinely say this is a design mistake because the designers didn't specify "no this monkey can't bounce faster than a fucking demigod". It's a glide. for when you're legit airborne.
personally i would expect that bunny hopping "exploit" to not be allowed at most reasonable dms' tables by maybe only allowing one or two instances of continuous gliding per turn that way you'd probably manage to get similar distances b y jumping twice, but at least it'd look similar to what you'd expect the race to act like: a bunch of gliding monkeys, not weird rabbits
The glide trait says you take zero damage from the fall after gliding. It doesn’t mention the other condition from falling, landing prone. If you land prone you will need to spend half your movement to stand up, right? Won’t applying the prone condition after a glide stop any multi jump shenanigans and reduce most glides to less than 75’ so enough movement remains to stand up? I also like the idea that you must fall 5’ initially to unfurl/fill your gliding “wings” and your horizontal movement starts after that.
I realize it is not rules as written but I would make the rule that the "floor" for glide to allow the Hadozee to land. gliding 12 inches above the ground does not make sense, they would need to do some gymnastics to get parallel to the ground to actually glide.
Errata aside, if you jumped one foot into the air and glided 5 feet you would be landing on your belly, be prone and have to use half your movement to stand up. I'm not about to do the math but I don't think you'd be moving a ridiculous amount of moving and certainly not 150 ft
I really wanna play a hadozee echo knight. Switch places with the echo 30ft in the air to avoid jumping continuously and pissing off my DM. Also you can move your echo beyond 30ft before switching places with it so possibly 60ft in the air. Takes a bonus action and a reaction but still pretty sweet
5e Spelljammer says Hadrozee, I see Yazirian. Plasmoid? Dralasite. Tri-Kreen? Okay, they've been around for a log time in many settings, but in Star Frontiers they were called Vrusk. I am saddened by the lack of giant earthworm people (S'sessu) though.
Don't think the glide feature was intended to work that way, and don't think many DMs will allow it RAW. It clearly just hasn't been playtested, because spelljammer is an afterthought.
I think I'd say that for each foot you fall you can spend two feet of movement to move five feet, and you can jump a max of five times a second. That, IMHO, brings this down from physics-defyingly broken (see other people's comments under this video) to merely powerful.
Even if we ignore the 1ft jump 30 times in 6 seconds, that same character still gets between 15-30 extra movement with a running jump. More if there is anything nearby to climb, more if they are using some ability to gain height. Heck, if you have the fly spell on you you suddenly gain 300ft movement speed, or more depending on how high you started the turn.
And you haven’t even included movement boosts, dashing or otherwise building for speed. You could probably build a character that can go a mile in a turn pretty easily.
I like 5E engine. I’ll keep using my 2E supplements. After the ravenloft fiasco I’ll buy no more setting supplements for old settings. New settings I am open too
Shouldn't jumping only one foot up in the air and gliding 5 feet be landing prone or something? It's really no height at all. Jumping from a 500 feet high cliff they would glide all the way down, 2500 feet away, in just one turn?
Prone, no. You only land prone if you land in difficult terrain (and you fail a DC 10 dexterity (acrobatics) check). Or if you take damage from the fall - which you do not from 1 foot fall. Gliding 2500 in a turn. Yes.
What would you suggest for revising the glide feature. at least for me, i hope to see 2 clarifications in the near future. 1 = you need to fall from a height of at least 10 ft in order to activate the glide by using your reaction, and then each 5 ft horizontal movement really does count as part of your movement speed. 2 = delete the part about avoiding the falling damage ... or else revise to say that if you ever do take falling damage for some reason, then you can use your reaction (if available) to reduce the falling damage by half, usable for your proficiency bonus times per long rest
If a player at my table wants to play the Hadozee, then I would want to discuss it beforehand. Personally, I would want to homebrew that they can only begin to glide once per turn. They still get a powerful glide ability, but they have to either lean into it using high jumps, or utilize the map. Still powerful, and flavorful, just not completely busted.
Don’t forget there is not only map, but also PCs, NPCs and monsters to climb on! And there are things like Misty Step (150+ ft glide), Echo Knight (225-300 ft glide), Storm Sorcerer (50 ft glide if you cast leveled spell),… So you cannot only limit it to number of times per round and minimal height (it would have to be 10ft+ to work properly), but also maybe limiting it that you cannot change direction mid-air and you cannot use your arms during the glide. Otherwise it would be easy to abuse for hit and run tactics midair during glides.
@@JuckiCZ Afaik, falling is instantaneous. Which leads me to believe you cannot attack while falling. However, it still feels a bit broken since it does not trigger opportunity attacks. At the same time I am not sure how much I would want to nerf it without seeing it in action. I am convinced it needs to be nerfed. However, I am not sure how much. Which is why simply limiting it to once per turn feels like a good start.
I'm sure the RAW of Glide is poorly worded. I think the RAI of Glide should be the 1 f.t. of movement dropping down is what doesn't cost any movement. With that being said, you would still manage to move further than you normal move speed. Just my uneducated take on this situation.
If your ranger has a 600ft snipe, I don't see 150 ft of movement adding a lot of value since most opponents will be sniped to death before approaching you regardless. A paladin or a barbarian however (or a strength based fighter), who rely on being in the thick of it will make excellent value of it.
I don't see how the Hadozee could glide 5 ft forward simply by jumping one foot high if they didn't have any impetus to move forward to begin with. This is gliding, not powered flight. Maybe this jump-glide movement should only work with the 10 ft movement. An Hadozee with 8 Str would run 10 ft, then jump 2 ft up and glide 10 other feet, which would mean a total of 20 ft at the cost of 12 ft. He could do the maneuver again, so his movement would be 40 ft at the cost of 24, after which he could still run the remaining 8 ft, so 48 feet at the cost of 30. Less than a Dash, but he still can attack or cast a spell. Now imagine at 20 Str (probably a Barbarian). Run 10 ft, jump 8 ft high, glide 40 ft = 50 ft forward at the cost of 18. If he does it again, he could only jump 2 ft, 20 ft of movement at the cost of the 12 remain feet. For a total of 70 ft for a 30 ft movement. More than a Dash, and he still has an Action to spend. As for attacks of opportunity, it did cost you movement: one foot to jump. So it should trigger attacks of opportunity.
Glide has to be house ruled until it is errata'd. I'd simply say the character cannot glide more times than the 10s digit of their land speed per move action. That's three times for most characters, so plenty to avoid AOO and give +15 feet moved. Still a good feature.
Edit August 31st: The Hadozee race has been errated already. This video is already out of date.
It might just be me, but I don't count a paywall to be a adequate form of releasing errata. As far as I can tell, its just available if you pay for it on D&D beyond.
Edit: I saw a guy who posted the change online and i think its pretty easy to cheese. If you can get 50' walking speed, the jump spell (or a ring of jumping), and 16 strength, then you pretty much are in the same situation as before the errata, with the only limiting factor being the ceiling height.
@@cp1cupcake The original version let you jump in the air 1 foot to glide 5 feet 30 times RAW, turning 30 feet of movement into 150 feet for free at level one. A magic item or spell, a 16 in strength, and your reaction to go less than 2/3 of that distance (because at least 10 feet of your movement has to be up and you can only glide 50 feet max) hardly seems like a comparable "easy" cheese.
Yeah the jumping and gliding 30x thing was dumb anyway. You can still use it in the way I imagine most tables would've allowed. Still a strong race!
@@cp1cupcake They have released an official errata doc on both the D&D Beyond website and the D&D website. On both websites, the doc can be accessed via a free article and is not behind any paywalls.
@@sillvvasensei While the errata on their website says it was out on the 2nd, I looked for it and could not find it when I made my post.
As a DM I will just change it to "After you have descended for 5 feet you can move up to 5 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend in the air, at no movement cost to you." So you cannot start gliding for the first 5ft of the fall. It make sense that gliding should start with some vertical falling to build up the up thrust. It will still be fun and useful as you have climb speed to enable you to use the feature regularly, but not broken.
The thing I'd personally do is say "you must be at least 10 ft in the air before you can glide" so you're not just jumping from the floor like in this example. You'd have to start from a ledge or the like.
I agree with both.
Sincerely, glide reminds me the discussion that Chris had about high level campaigns. The fact that you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. This feature seems completely unreasonable. I would like to play a hadozee, but if I do it, I would only use it when I jump from a tree, escaping from a tower, etc. Using it to get extra movement per turn does not even seem fun. Having a monkey jumping like mario and moving faster than the mounted paladin while dashing is just ridiculous.
@@oicmorez4129 That's how the original Yazirian worked. I'd argue matching Simic should be fine (2/1instead of 5/1) or keep 5/1 and insert a 10ft initial drop requirement. You'd still be able to set it off with a bonus action outdoors but dungeon crawls would limit its use significantly.
Honestly, Glide is simply busted. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed the digital version in the future or something like that
I expect there will be lots of DM's houseruling this one.
I thought the old 1ft fall for 2ft glide is already good enough, now they provide 5ft version....
If my player wants to do this trick, I am having them roll some sort of huge DC check to see if they can jump and glide 30 times in 6 seconds.
pretty clear to me. The movement cost should have been half or "for every 5 feet that you fall, you glide 10, and it costs you 5 feet of movement." Then get rid of that "resilience" feature that is just bad design, the Mary Sue or whatever 'can do it all' archetype. Who spreads their wings after ONE foot of falling? I love that Treant picked up on the loophole though. It really is entertaining. Oh i almost forgot, since the race was clearly made for desperate gamers, give it darkvision and a lucky feat.
@@cjd2889 Don’t forget they also have climbing speed, so as long as there is any vertical surface (tree, wall, ?friendly PC?), they can climb up and glide down without jumping at all.
Or with higher STR score, when they can jump 3-4 ft with Standing High Jump and 6-8 ft with High Jump, so they can still move 54 - 62 ft every round without any climbing and without vertical surfaces around and while using only one high jump per round (if DM limits it this way). So consider this speed their minimum.
With respect to the Glide, I think the best approach would be that the DM and player agree on a "minimum height" for the glide to take effect. This way, there's a benchmark you have to reach before it counts, and you'll need to make build considerations to get that sort of benefit. For example, if they set it to 5 feet, then they'll either need a 14 STR with a 10-foot running start (spending 15 feet to glide 25, with no attacks of opportunity) or employ the use of a spell or ability to increase their jump to meet the minimum (e.g. the Jump spell can get an 8 STR PC with a running start to spend 16 feet to glide 30). Wouldn't have to be 5 feet, but agreeing to some kind of minimum can keep the ability's power without resorting to 1-foot jumps, which any character with 8 STR or more can do without a running start.
Mechanic aside, though, there are characters that could have a lot of fun with this. Jump and Levitae spells come to mind, as well as the Beast Barbarian, and, weirdly enough, the Monk, notably the Ascendant Dragon Monk (take your fly speed, then when you fall, capitalize on how high you flew). People are going to be theorycrafting for a WHILE.
Like, you can tell the intention was for the PC to use the climbing speed to gain their falling height, but since you're not always going to be able to climb something, people are just inevitably going to look for ways to make jumping equal gliding flight.
With an echo knight you'll have a great combo as well
I think 10 ft. is a good minimum height. That’s the height at which you start to take fall damage, and you can’t reach that height without the aid of magic and leaving the reach of a Medium creature.
Or you can just climb something and jump. Granted there isn't always something to climb but I could stand on the shoulders of another party member jump one foot into the air and still likely get 30 feet. But agreed jumping 1 foot off the ground shouldn't allow you to glide.
Storm sorcery?! That 10 feet of flight is looking real good right now... Plus the added durability.
I think the one class that benefits the most is the spell sniper eldritch spear warlock. Now that 600 ft of range can actually be useful.
This is a deep cut: it looks like the Spelljammer book is re-introducing three of the original races from Star Frontiers from the early 1980s. The Hadozee is the Yazirian, the Plasmoid is the Dralasite, the Thri-kreen is the Vrusk.
Yes-I know thri-kreen have been in D&D previously. But obvious parallels.
The Devs admitted as much in one of the preview videos for Spelljammer.
Yazi's had to fall 10 feet first and had a 1 to 1 ratio depending on gravity...or something like that. It's been a minute.
The original spelljammer book already did that, didn't it? That's how these races were created in the first place. They're all from 2e iirc.
Thri-kreen is from Dark Sun originally. Hadozee is from OG Spelljammer, but it came out in the Stormwrack book for 3rd Edish.
Star Frontiers. I believe that predates Spelljammer almost a decade.
I would absolutely NOT rule that it's allowed for you to jump 30 times in 6 seconds. That's a nonsense ruling.
BUT that said it's still incredible. Misty Step went from a 30ft range to a 150ft range for a Hadozee.
And if you play on a square grid where diagonals dont exist then its effectively a 180 ft. Spell
And Dimension Door allows you to travel nearly half a mile in 6 seconds...
You're completely okay with people shooting fire out of their hands, but as soon as someone tries to perform an amazing feat of athleticism your Suspension of disbelief breaks?
Just for references I timed myself, I managed to do 24 jumps in 6 seconds
@zhang Bill I can't believe any actual fan of D&D just made this argument. Spells are part of the world we're choosing to play in. Also, so are physics. There is no other form of movement that involves making a 1 foot jump, going completely horizontal to glide 5 feet forward (picture how low they are to the ground) then somehow getting back to their feet and repeating the process 29 more times in 6 seconds. You could pull that move off clumsily a handful of times in 6 seconds and you'd probably be just scraping your knees as you tried to go from horizontal back to some kind of position to jump again.
It's surprising how much the community is worried about this being used in this way, I just can't imagine many reasonable DMs allowing this. It's busted for other reasons, but the 30 1 foot jumps isn't one of them.
@@zhangbill1194 Please, jump and glide 5 feet 30 times in 6 seconds. This isn't jumping up and down like a dork, this is jumping and then gliding 5 ft and then jumping again. Give me a visual of how that looks 30 times over in the span of 6 seconds...
You magic argument is irrelevant so I'm not going to bother responding.
Dimension Door 2500 feet of movement in 6 seconds. Its also on the Warlock spell list to be able to use it on a short rest basis. For chuckles you could use Action Surge and two Dimension Door castings to get 5000 feet on 6 seconds.
There's going to be some _wild_ thought experiments around the physics surrounding this nonsense.
That is roughly the speed of sound (if my math is correct)
@@rasmusrasmussen6119 Speed of sound is 767 mph where 5000 feet per 6 seconds is something like 568ish. That's most definitely subsonic, but still this is a living creature that is going to near instantly accelerate to 568 mph then land and decelerate to like 3 mph also near instantly. Wind resistance be damned, that Hadozee is going to be a smear. Even without Action Surge as that is around 284 mph to 3.
@Andrew the dimension door itself wouldn't have resistance, the exceedingly fast gliding down to the ground within 6 seconds would
@Andrew In game? Totally.
But there is a joy to be found in trying to apply reality to fantasy, see every discussion on IRL magic or even better the book _What if?: Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions_ by Randall Munroe aka XKCD
It gets real nuts when you add in the distant spell metamagic [something that isn't said often]
I think a simple fix for the Hadozee (and the one I plan to use) is to only allow them to use their Glide when falling, but not when jumping. I think the design intention matches this, considering that they have a climb speed. I see a climb speed combined with the monkey flavor and the flying squirrel wings, and I assume that the glide abiltiy was intended for them to leap off of things they have climbed up. However my tables have specific rules for what is considered a fall vs what is considered a jump, as I think RAW they aren't super clear.
To explain a bit, I think the easiest solution is just that jumping doesn't necessarily cause you to fall. With both vertical and horizontal jumps, I think the entirety of the jump's arc should be considered part of the jump, so no falling involved. I would only consider a character falling after a jump if they somehow descended a greater distance than they ascended, such as if they high jumped off the edge of something already high. Or if they were somehow incapacitated during the jump, I guess?
I see it as more as a controlled series of movements, instead of a wild launch into the air and then an uncontrolled freefall. If you go beyond that controlled arc of the jump however, you start to fall. For example, if a character jumps straight up 30ft, and comes down 30ft, that's just a jump. But if they go up 30ft and somehow down 40ft, now I would consider that falling. At least the last 10ft of it anyway. Up to you if you choose to include the second half/initial downward part of the jump in the fall distance for the damage calculation, I personally do not. So in the example I would say the character "fell" 10ft, after their jump. I could see the arguement for 40ft though.
imo whatever feature of their body/spell/item that allowed them to jump 30ft can withstand a controlled drop 30ft, basically. I'm not a physics guy, but the way it makes sense to me is that if their legs can withstand the force to launch them up, they need to be able to handle that much kinetic force when they land? A controlled landing where you land on your feet doesn't seem like a fall to me.
For example, the way I personally rule the Jump spell is that if you use it to jump straight up, you don't take damage from simply coming back down to the ground/starting position. Some tables might rule it differently, but I think the spell would be in-canon pretty poorly designed if that were the case? People would cast it and immediately hurt their legs from high jumping if they even had a little strength. How many level 3 GIthyanki warriors would be splatted after using their racial spell without feather fall? How many level 4 monks would do the same with Step of the Wind because they don't have Slow Fall yet? Same with class features like the Beast Barbarian's jump or items like the Boots of Striding/Springing.
But honestly I think 5e needs more outlined rules for what is considered a fall, and how that differs from what is considered part of a jump. This is just a ruling I use, nothing official. Though I don't think there is anything in the rules that necessarily disagrees me, but I could be wrong on that. That being said I haven't had issues with my jump vs falling rules in my games, and I find it solves the weird edge-cases.
So, if the Hadozee player wanted to jump 1ft or 20ft, they can do so, but nothing extra happens because they have not fallen. I think this way using the ability actually takes investment, planning, or environmental factors. It turns it into a situational advantage you can choose to build or plan around instead of a character-defining level 1 feature. And you avoid immersion breaking wave-dash cheese.
Just when you think the folks at D&D are on top of things, they publish a broken mechanic like Hadozee Glide. They need to bring in people like Chris et al to play test the final draft versions and expose these broken mechanics before they are published.
I think they're spending less resources on fine tuning 5e as they begin development on OneDnD
I'm not loving the recent releases. Seems like so little effort was put in.
They're moving into the Bethesda realm of play testers. Let the modders/DM fix the game.
Yep get him in as a consultant.... he would of seen an issue with this on a first read.
@@TreantmonksTemple I think this is why folks are really nervous about One D&D. People have replied to UA surveys in the past and it seems to go into a void (not everything). I hope they are truly listening on the upcoming survey.
I see a lot of people suggesting minimum fall distances, but that still turns Misty Step into 150ft of movement that doesn't use your movement if you tp straight up. As written, I feel like you could make a very silly jumping Ashardalon's Stride character.
Oh snap
Or Echo Knight - 225 ft glide without preparation or 300 ft glide if you have one round to prepare for cost of 15 ft of movement (so you can still move 10ft and do one high jump for total movement of 260-335 with speed 30 ft) is broken as hell.
Storm Sorcerer can glide 50 ft if he casts leveled spell for no movement cost. Too much!
Big question here:
If you are at zero speed, could you use something like a spell to teleport upwards and then still glide? How does this work with grapple? Say you are flying and you are grappled by a flying opponent. Grapple reduces speed to zero, but since glide costs zero movement does that mean you can move the grappler with you?
@@stickjohnny really? I've never seen a DM forbidding it. What's the rationale? There is no thing like holding the hands or the mouth of a character during a grapple to inhibit spell casting in 5e.
@@stickjohnny Oh no. I should clarify. These are two separate questions. So the first is if you are in the process of gliding down can't you also teleport up higher to increase your glide distance?
The other question is how glide works when grappled in midair.
can't wait for Crawford's classic, "This was intentional," line in an upcoming interview.
Sorcerer 8, fighter 2. Distant meta magic with action surge.
Dimension Door twice using action surge and double the distance for a total of 2000ft in the air.
2000x5=10,000ft
10,000!!!!
Assuming this all happens in one round you would be breaking the sound barrier! Sound travels at 1125.3 feet per second, or 6752 feet per round.
@@trevorkortman4159 it's happening in one turn! Level 8 sorcerer's have 2 level 4 spell slots, action surge allows you to cast two spells on one turn, the distant meta magic option allows you to double the distance of a spell.
It's crazy fast. Dnd rule in XGE states you fall 500ft per round also. It would take 4 rounds to hit the ground
Thank you for being the only person I've heard mention movement cost on the jump.
Even without the jumping, if you are near a wall you have a climb speed of 30 feet. That is 150 feet of glide right there whenever you are near a wall.
Hell, if there's anything big enough to give cover on the battlefield you can climb to the top and leap off to glide.
Even without bunnyhopping, you can absolutely get excellent movement out of the glide ability on any battlefield other than a flat plain.
Hell, using the battlefield in Treantmonk's example you could use your climb speed to get to the top of the cart then jump off and glide across the map, no jumping abuse required at all.
I think that’s actually the intended use of it. Climb 30 feet and then glide. But they didn’t clarify how it would work in other situations. Especially with their piecemeal and disjointed rules for falling.
Imagine a Hadozee dives off a 500ft cliff. They Glide 2500ft, which is almost a kilometre (or half a mile), in SIX SECONDS. Cast Dimension Door on top of that cliff instead to teleport directly up and glide 5000ft, and I think you're now Gliding faster than the speed of sound??? And you still get your action. Like, isn't gliding from the top of a cliff the intended use case that a casual, non-optimiser would think of first? This is bananas
Have we considered how "at no movement cost to you" might be interpreted differently? Like, maybe specifically the descent doesn't cost you movement. I really can't believe the supersonic fighter plane Hadozee would be RAI.
Alternatively, Grapple Death Squad with Hadozee anyone???
500 ft fall limit (game mechanics). That's 284 mph max. The world record in reality is 247. Also in reality a winged suit is a 3 to 1 ratio. So there's that.
@@jakemall hehe good point. So the Hadozee can only reach the speeds of a regular airplane, not a supersonic one! (Edit: I checked, that's still a lot slower than a plane. Significantly faster than an F1 car though!)
Two things you didn't mention about the glide feature: It isn't obvious that it is affected by difficult terrain. Also, if you cast misty step, you can teleport diagonally to dramatically increase the distance you travel.
> gliding in the air
> difficult terrain is below you
@@VioletRM I could see things like gliding through small branches, or heavy precipitation/strong winds qualifying as air-born difficult terrain. There’s a precedent for that in the Storm Sphere spell.
@@elliotbryant3459 That is a good point actually. For example, the Plant Growth spell describes a radius of 150 feet. And it says that anything moving in that area needs to spend extra movement. The most literal way to read that is that it should affect flying creatures even when they are 100 feet off the ground. For gliding, since gliding itself doesn't cost movement, nothing happens there, but it probably costs you 4 feet of movement to jump that 1 foot off the ground.
I think a more "realistic" version of your movement example is, what if the PC started onto of the boxes in that lower wagon, that's a good 8 feet up for sure, so just falling off that is at least 40 ft of free movement to start the turn assuming the DM doesn't allow a jump, which is also silly. Kind of weird they didn't add a minimum or fall distance to trigger it or something, and even then it's a strange game design decision.
If they didn't want the glide to be repeatable mutliple times per turn, they could have just stated "The first time you fall on a turn" or a similar "once per turn" clause.
@@krimson459 I think using a reaction to start gliding would be easier to read.
@@tecshield690 That would only work if they also made the slow fall built into the glide. I think that is an acceptable fix.
I’m going to apply two adjustments to glide in my games, you need to be at least 40-50 ft above a spot where you can reasonably land and the distance you can glide is halved if you don’t jump into the glide or lose 10 ft of height to build up speed. This way someone who plays a Hadozee in my games can’t just abuse the glide without spending movement or positioning themselves beforehand in order to do so
@@jasondahfolf4325 I guess it all depends on your players, if I had one that used the glide ability every once in a while it probably wouldn't be worth preemptively putting a limitation on it. If someone wants to abuse it like Chris' example in the video (or even a more 'realistic' example like mine above), I'd have a talk with them about it.
I generally don't like imposing penalties before anyone has taken advantage of a rule that is poorly written.
I’ve nerfed this considerably for my own home games. Simply put, moving the 5 feet horizontally still takes up movement but vertically does not. So, that character could hang out in the air for a while descending slowly, but they don’t get to move an insane distance and are still limited by their move speed.
Look, a scammer.
For the broken version of hydozy glide, and an ashardalonn's stride specialist would be super busted. Ashardalan's glide
I've been working on this in my head lol. With all the movements bonuses available out there, this doesn't really get MORE broken until you consider large scale warfare. How often are you fighting 20+ enemies of medium + size in huge areas where that kind of movement is relevant? Do you see something I don't?
honestly there's no way I'd ever change this in my game because wavedashing in DnD is so funny
counterargument to "I don't really see any value to further movement": that's 'cause you're only thinking in terms of a normal combat engagement. Think about that instead in terms of dungeon exploration or overland travel, or travel through a city. You could use Cunning Action and your action to dash twice, and go 450 ft. in 6 seconds. That's 51 miles per hour, which is modern highway speed. You can cheese plot events with this by delivering messages faster than any other form of communication available to your party, for example. It's genuinely really useful for most circumstances where a time limit is involved.
Also, if you get a fly speed from your class, you can alternate 1 foot of upward flight with gliding to go absurd speeds _in the air,_ totally ignoring terrain. Now you can scout an entire dungeon (and uh, aggro literally every enemy in the dungeon) without triggering traps!
According to Xanathar's optional falling rule, you fall up to 500 feet per round. This limits the glide range to 2500 ft per 6 seconds. So there is a cap on your speed.
So the "cap" is (2500 ft / 6 sec) x (60 sec / 1 min) x (60 min / 1 hr) x (1 mile / 5280 ft) = 284 miles per hour. 🤦♂
Player: I jump one foot off the ground and use my hadozee glide to-
GM: To fall flat on your face. You are now prone and can use half of your remaining movement to get back on your feet.
Honestly as simple as that in my book. Though honestly, seeing a hadozee wavedash across the entire map in a single turn at level 1 would be pretty hilarious.
In terms of pure mechanics, yes you can *technically* make the hadozee glide be broken but it is not reasonable to be able to do. I would also rule that you don't have the reaction time to be able to both spread your "wings" and brace yourself from impact in the span of a 1-foot drop. There has to be some sort of boundary for realism in your game otherwise nothing makes sense. Similarly, it's not reasonable for someone to automatically travel the total distance of a fall in a single turn, therefore it's not reasonable for a hadozee to glide the entire distance of that fall either.
There was a video Zee Bashew did a few weeks ago about the jump spell and someone in the comments said something to the effect of "Just because you can't travel the full distance of a long jump in a single turn doesn't mean that you don't keep your momentum into the next." To me, this makes complete sense. If you jump across a ravine and then don't make it, you don't just fall like a Looney Tunes character after they walked off the edge of a cliff.
1000 times this statement. I was honestly more than a little disappointed that Treantmonk would even entertain the notion of "wavedashing" at all - much less completely ignore the sane ruling as an option.
I wonder if the simple solution here is to Home Rule gliding. Start with a no drag rule for gliding. I mean from a practical stance, gliding requires little to no friction beyond air resistance. All you have is momentum (you can't flap your wings for additional thrust). I'd also probably add a requirement of either a 10' drop (like the Yazirian) or a 10' running start and jump to initiate the glide. This would limit wave jumping to 110' and remove any confusion regarding provoking OAs where it matters most (the initial movement). I think this should also apply to Simic.
I'm not opposed to the additional movement on its own. That's easy enough to come by.
Gliding is NOT forced movement, therefore it triggers attacks of opportunity
From the PHB: "For example, you don't provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe's reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy."
Falling, descending, or whatever is ultimately forced by gravity, not by your movement. So it still bypasses attacks of opportunity.
@@seacliff217 is it still forced movement when you are fully directing where you will go? The mechanics of the gliding feature start off with "You can move...", you're not incapacitated here, you're choosing your path, there is agency to your locomotion [particularly when you are the one initiating the descent]. The section on opportunity attacks describes their avoidance via forced movement in relation to falling as "if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy" -Here you are causing yourself to move past their reach, not gravity. Gravity would have sent you careening straight down. And you're not an aimless dandelion seed tempest tossed tossed in the wind here. You could have chosen at least 1, if not several precise destinations to safely descend to. Why should you be less liable for heedless routing than a creature with a flying speed would be? If having "wind resistance" were a a qualifier for for avoiding opportunity attacks, then why should any winged creature require flyby to avoid them when moving in a downward trajectory?
@@elliotbryant3459 It's not "forced movement" because the term doesn't even exist in 5e. My point is that there is more than just what players refer to as "forced movement" in the opportunity attack rules.
@@seacliff217 Right, “forced movement” is shorthand for one of those external OA negating circumstances. But I’m not buying that an OA negating circumstance [like gravity, gusts, an explosion, or being dragged/shoved] was the cause of your passing through their reach in this scenario. A random act of fate would have sent you straight down. If you were unable to make decisions for yourself (incapacitated), that is the direction you’d have gone, OA free.
If your DM does allow the hop-glide version then a multiclass scribe wizard tempest cleric that used Ashardalon's Stride would be kind of hilarious for dealing with small armies of minions. 250' of movement that definitely doesn't allow for opportunity attacks and if you have a lightning spell of the right level that allows you to shift the damage and throw in a 10' knock back effect.
Friday morning just got better!
As a DM I wouldn't allow the glide feature to be used when jumping and landing from the same height. I can see some really awesome build ideas. Like a Hadozee either mounted on a PC centaur or playing a mounted pally build. Your mount runs into battle and you high jump off it and glide around attacking things and then glide back to the mount and skedaddle. I'll average your jumping off point at +5 feet above ground and if your Str mod is a +3 (I'm assuming you had to take mounted combatant +4 if you didn't). This means on a warhorse, you could run 60 feet in, jump off glide around for 55+ feet, mount back up and then have your warhorse dash out for 60 more feet. I love the visual, and it doesn't feel as cheep as high jumping from the ground and gliding 5 feet. It feels like a character investment. Like something a Dothraki would do if it had wings. It gives your character a fighting style outside of the mechanical, and I just love that.
I think the intended way that glidding works here is you can climb to your walking speed. And so climbing for example 15ft, you can then glide 75ft and it costed you only 15ft of movement.
For the way you describe it, I don't think any DM would allow it because when you think about it, doing a high jump is not just hopping but instead you have to brace yourself, bend the knees, use your arm to help do a weight redistribution to help you jump the highest you can. Maybe RAW it's not taking time in a turn, because usually the "time" is taking from the distance you do jumping is costing you movement. But if you do 30 high jumps in a turn, it does'nt seem realistic and doing all your attacks and/or spells in addition of that does'nt make sense to me.
100% agree
This is why i hope the new rules in September can give a universal understanding of what these player options, and potential NPC options can and cannot do for DMs in this game.
Some things need to be explained or tweaked on all new projects to make sure that the game is balanced.
The rules for Fliying, Gliding as well as the Slow Fall Monk ability and the Feather Fall all need to be more consise so that the Player and the DM can agree with a clearer sense of the rules, or at least, it's intention.
Homebrew is cool.
Universal brew is better.
Yeah, Glide is absurd. Maybe it doesn't have to be, RAW, but we know that some number of players just won't be able to help themselves, and will abuse it.
My take on what to do? {1} Add a 60ft Glide speed to the movement speed types of the Hadozee, and define Gliding as a standard kind of movement that consumes speed as normal. Having a core rules definition of Gliding, where you move horizontally while falling (with a minimum fall distance), would make the mechanic easily available for other sources. That'd be really cool, since it'd open up all sorts of space for stuff like a magical cape of gliding, spells, features for other creatures, artificers to make hang gliders, and so forth. {2} Clarify the interaction between falling and jumping. I know there's a common home brew rule where you don't count as falling until you're below the elevation you jumped from. That'd really help out with any Hadozee exploit bullshit. If you wanted to glide across the battlefield, you'd have to jump off the top of a tree if you wanted to glide real distances in combat.
The Sonic Hybrid also could glide like this, and it ended being so goofy in our campaign that we just limited jumping to once a turn!
I feel like a really easy homebrew to fix this "problem" is just to add "*If you would fall more than or equal to 10ft* you can move up to 5ft horizontally for every 1ft you decend in the air, at no movement cost to you". Characters below 24 Str can't just bunny-hop, it incentivizes you to use your climb speed in order to activate the ability and thematically it just makes way more sense. You'd need to fall for a bit before your skin-membranes would catch the wind and let you glide y'know. Also makes the Jump spell actually worth considering and i just love when you can make largely ignored spells actually useful!
It’s a suped up version of the Simic Hybrid’s own glide feature… all it needs is a “if you fall from X height” rider language
Yeah I don't think they thought the glide through. Any reasonable DM is going to put the kibosh on this strategy and houserule a minimum vertical distance you'd need to start gliding, and possibly even impose a "floor" to it as well where if you go below X feet above the ground you land prone instead of on your feet as you waited too long to 'pull up' from the glide.
Personally, I'd say at minimum you'd need 10 feet of clearance to start a glide and you'd need to pull up by 3 ft to land on your feet.
As for optimizing for gliding, if you took 3 levels of Fighter (Echo Knight) you could have your echo hang out 30 feet right above you, then on your turn have it go up another 30 feet and swap places with it for the cost of a bonus action and 15 ft of movement. That's 60 vertical feet you can use for gliding. You'll need to use a reaction to avoid fall damage, but you're ~300 feet away (RAW) at that point. This would work even better if you managed to climb 30 feet up a wall first.
Imagining a character doing this in a movie or TV show, its like Mario 64 speedruns where they are backwards long jumping.
Homebrew needed to solve Glide issue:
You need to use reaction for every Glide use.
You cannot change direction mid-air.
You cannot use your arms and legs while gliding (or you immediately fall).
This would solve most abuses (attacking mid-air and disengaging for free, abusing spells like Ashardalon’s Stride or Misty Step, doing 30 small jumps per round,…).
You would still get nice speed boost (movement 54-62 ft with reasonable STR), one disengage per round (as Goblin has) for cost of reaction and free Feather Fall for yourself, but nothing broken.
There would still remain Storm Sorcerers’ 50ft glide for BA (as long as they cast leveled spell) and that 225-300ft glide of Echo Knight for cost of 15ft of movement. But Echo Knight is already broken and fixing it has always been a problem…
But still, no-brained race for a Ranger!
Warcaster...I don't need my hands to cast... I'm not sure about the directional restrictions. Remember, this ability already exists with Simic with a 2 to 1 ratio. I'm not sure this breaks Ashardalon's stride MORE than that did unless you're doing a warfare campaign.
I think, realistically as a DM, I would just use Crawford's argument for jump and do a personal rewrite of the rules so that glide only works when falling.
So to explain to those who don't know, Crawford explained that when descending from a jump you wouldn't count the height jumped into fall damage. So the way I would handle this is that you can only glide from a falling state, not the descent of the jump.
Does the RAW say 5 feet of movement for 1 foot of falling? No. It does not. It says descending, but I think assuming a fall night be reasonable.... MIGHT BE.
Problem on top of this is dealing with climbing, not jumping. If you're fighting in the woods and someone with no climb speed and glide come a tree and glides off then they would glide 75 feet for the cost of 15 feet of climbing (assume base speed is 30).
But these guys have a climb speed. So it's much, MUCH worse.
The Hadozee jumping 30 times a round is like the peasant railgun. Let them jump once and the "glide" takes enough time that they don't have time ina single round to jump and glide again.
oh my god, it's great give the hadozee a shotgun cause apparently you can bunny hop with them.
Me:Tell me that you don't want to see Hadozee monks without saying that you don't want to see Hadozee monks
Treantmonk: Go over my last paragraph before my sign-off...
It seems like there's been very little Quality Control done in here. We already had a race with a built-in glide feature: the Simic Hybrid. Their feature states:
"You have ray-like fins that you can use as wings to slow your fall or allow you to glide. When you fall and aren’t incapacitated, you can subtract up to 100 feet from the fall when calculating falling damage, and you can move up to 2 feet horizontally for every 1 foot you descend." My question would be: in what way is a Hadozee "gliding" that makes it different than the "glide" used by the Hybrid? If "gliding" were itself a kind of movement (like climbing/swimming), then it seems its mechanics should be relatively consistent across the field of potential actions ANY player can make.
All I can imagine is a Humanoid flying squirrel. Or at least that's what I'd ask to appear as.
Having played these guys back when they were called Yazirians in the old Star Frontiers game, the Glide ability isn't broken if you simply remove the "doesn't cost movement" clause. No need to specify special use cases like "must fall 10 feet first" or "I'll allow it unless I think you're abusing it". Now it becomes a weaker version of flying that I would totally be ok with as a DM. Don't want to allow Aarakocra in your campaign? Say the nerfed monkey exists in your world and now everything is fine. (Or heck, give the Aarakocra this ability.) Your players will still try to find ways to climb up things and jump off, or maybe even high jump and glide, but it's no big deal because they can't "go infinite" on their movement speed. You get to say "Yes and" to all their wacky and/or creative glide attempts instead of pumping the brakes all the time.
I don't think a typical DM would allow a player to jump 30 times in one round. If one of my players asked me that, I would look them straight in the eye, pull out a stopwatch, and say "do you really think you can jump 30 times in 6 seconds? Oh also, every jump must be 1 foot high."
The theoretical maximum assuming earth gravity and no air resistance and the force required to kick off with your feet being instantaneous, is like...12 jumps. I would expect an average person with air resistance and not infinitely fast feet to do maybe 6 jumps (about 1 jump per second).
Now, what I think a lot more DMs would allow is if you do get launched a long way up, either through a big jump or another method, (maybe your barbarian friend throws a small Hadozee into the sky), then I would imagine most DMs would allow the gliding to work as advertised. Gliders if they are falling a long way can indeed move very fast, way faster than people can run. So there's still potential for a very powerful character here even with a DM that doesn't allow everything.
But 30 1 foot jumps in 6 seconds? Yeah...that's so obviously silly and unrealistic, I would expect most DMs to not allow it.
WotC has really been pumping out books at a faster rate (even more coming next year), and the lack of play testing is really showing. Really feels like they are just trying to rush stuff out to keep sales up.
I think the big fix would have been to document the issue of being prone if you do this jumping maneuver. Jumping one foot up and gliding 5 feet would basically make you glide into your belly this being prone. Maybe if you fell from a space at least twice as high as your height would cause you not to be prone after the glide.
If a Hadozee climbed Mt Everest at 29000ft they would be able to travel over 27 miles instantly. If they jumped from the peak of Mount Celestia they could fly to half a dozen planes in a moment, before landing in Bytopia. Next character I make will be a Hadozee mountain climber.
A simple Misty Step gives them 150' of movement. Dimension Door yields about half a mile.
I would just have gliding use their movement speed. Otherwise it is a short range teleport with the added bonus of never failing and being able to see all the distance between launch and landing.
Easy fix for the exploit is to require a reaction for the glide distance the same as.for reducing fall damage to zero.
That way you can do it once per turn.
Using RAW and sage advice, you would fall 500-580 feet in a round, so you can Dimension Door straight up at a maximum of 500 feet or something, and you’re moving about a half mile horizontally with the Hadozee in 6 seconds. Of course, this is kinda silly, but that’s what the book is saying.
I agree it's not worth going out of your way to buff an already busted ability, but if you were already building a warlock, I think the Otherworldy Leap (Jump spell at will, tripling jump distance for 1 minute, no concentration) invocation has found a niche case where it's worth taking, even if just for the ability to move around that much making the forced movement of Repelling Blast ridiculously versatile. I dub the build The Pool Monkey (like pool shark, but it's a monkey...).
A simple fix to the scenario: creatures can perform a high jump once per turn. Additionally, they can make another whenever they take the dash action. -Or if you didn't want to limit jumping in general, you could just apply that limit to the hadozee's gliding feature. Personally, I would apply it to jumping in general, just for some manner of verisimilitude and to safeguard against any future jumping bean cheese.
-All that said, I've wished there were published mechanics for 3/4 jumps, like in platformer games, where you can move both upwards and forwards in one jump, and this is the closest we've gotten to that.
The old Star Frontiers rules for Yazarian reads: “A Yazirian can glide 1 meter for every meter he is above the ground when he starts. He must start at least 10 meters above the ground. The maximum distance a Yazirian can glide depends on the gravity of the planet, as shown below.” For a world with 1G, the chart shows a max of 10m. Literally, all WotC had to do was translate metric to standard units and they were done.
Oh I would fix that so damn fast. Something about differentiating a 'fall' from a 'jump' and a minimum fall distance to get the paraglide effect.
The designers played too much Smash Bros. and introduced a character race with honest-to-God wavedashing. Or they can get high up in the air and cast Monkey Missile by gliding into things at very high speed (though I would rule that they would take damage themselves).
Simic Hybrids could also wavedash however they were only able to double their movement speed with it
I wonder why the same discussions didn't happen about the Simic Hybrid's from Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica? They also have a glide mechanic but it's worded differently. I wonder why they didn't stick with that original wording if it wasn't a problem?
It used movement speed and was 2:1 instead of 5:1
I would probably rule that to use the Glide, you would need to have a fall/jump of at least 10 feet. While it doesn't address all the problems with the feature, I do believe that it's the most fair and simple alteration, since you would need to use the "take no damage" reaction if you wanted to not fall prone at the end of the glide, which in turn stops the "hop-and-go" shenanigans.
scout rogue (3)'s Skirmisher reaction could work well with gliding [since your Movement can include Jumping] if paired with some other jump improving features. Maybe take the scout dip on a beast barbarian, or an artificer w/ boots of springing and striding.
Vengeance Paladin (7) could also do the reaction movement as part of an opportunity attack.
I am super excited about the Hadozee. Out of all the new races, I think this one is my favorite. I loved using the mantaray wings on my simic hybrid, the uniqueness of glide is really fun.
That's an instant one jump per turn. Works well with misty step, levitate and dimension door, though.
Sometimes I wonder if wotc has any proofreaders on staff.
I can't see any DM allowing jump + glide. However, shenanigans with dimension door or misty step might be allowed by some, which is already nuts. This feature has to be rewritten.
In a fantasy game with space monkeys, I am tormented by the question of how Hadozee put on pants past their weird membranes, or is all of their armor and clothing tear-away? Plz respond to my letters, Crawford.
Ok, the only thing i can think of is that *you are still falling* when you glide, making you land prone (which makes sense based on the way a sugar glider glides) and the hadozee stat block says nothing about landing upright.
So here's what im thinking of maybe mobile feat and the jump spell, either way, needing to stand up seems like a serious nerf and id bet if you asked jcraw, then he'd say you need to stand
Edit: i suppose doing little short hops that dont cause fall damage means you land upright RAW, and also the once per turn fall damage cancel also fixes this if you jump from higher up.
Everyone forgets you can pick a sun soul monk ad be a super saiyan
The homebrew fix I intend to run, is to cap the rate of descent in glide mode to 20 feet per turn, or slowfall speed in other words. It'll still be fantastic, that's 100 feet of movement for for no cost, but it's at least reasonable. I'll throw on a minimum fall distance to use the ability too of course.
Loving these breakdowns and your analysis!
Seems like an overpowered race to use with a cheese grater warlock build
I'm gonna level with ya'll, the idea that an average group will roll with this interpretation of the Hadozee glide is bananas and it gives the optimization community a bad rap that people genuinely say this is a design mistake because the designers didn't specify "no this monkey can't bounce faster than a fucking demigod".
It's a glide. for when you're legit airborne.
personally i would expect that bunny hopping "exploit" to not be allowed at most reasonable dms' tables by maybe only allowing one or two instances of continuous gliding per turn that way you'd probably manage to get similar distances b y jumping twice, but at least it'd look similar to what you'd expect the race to act like: a bunch of gliding monkeys, not weird rabbits
The glide trait says you take zero damage from the fall after gliding. It doesn’t mention the other condition from falling, landing prone. If you land prone you will need to spend half your movement to stand up, right? Won’t applying the prone condition after a glide stop any multi jump shenanigans and reduce most glides to less than 75’ so enough movement remains to stand up?
I also like the idea that you must fall 5’ initially to unfurl/fill your gliding “wings” and your horizontal movement starts after that.
"The creature lands prone, Unless it avoids taking damage from the fall." - avoiding damage explicitly removes the falling prone part of falling.
@@michael_betts thanks
I wouldn’t allow multiple high jumps. Although I suspect it will be errata’d to only glide proficiency bonus times per long rest.
I realize it is not rules as written but I would make the rule that the "floor" for glide to allow the Hadozee to land. gliding 12 inches above the ground does not make sense, they would need to do some gymnastics to get parallel to the ground to actually glide.
Errata aside, if you jumped one foot into the air and glided 5 feet you would be landing on your belly, be prone and have to use half your movement to stand up. I'm not about to do the math but I don't think you'd be moving a ridiculous amount of moving and certainly not 150 ft
Moving at Mach 2 by doing the badger dance across the battlefield
I really wanna play a hadozee echo knight. Switch places with the echo 30ft in the air to avoid jumping continuously and pissing off my DM. Also you can move your echo beyond 30ft before switching places with it so possibly 60ft in the air. Takes a bonus action and a reaction but still pretty sweet
5e Spelljammer says Hadrozee, I see Yazirian. Plasmoid? Dralasite. Tri-Kreen? Okay, they've been around for a log time in many settings, but in Star Frontiers they were called Vrusk. I am saddened by the lack of giant earthworm people (S'sessu) though.
I'd have thought they'd rule it that you have to fall 15ft first before the glide starts.
Don't think the glide feature was intended to work that way, and don't think many DMs will allow it RAW. It clearly just hasn't been playtested, because spelljammer is an afterthought.
Wavedashing in D&D, let's go!
I think I'd say that for each foot you fall you can spend two feet of movement to move five feet, and you can jump a max of five times a second. That, IMHO, brings this down from physics-defyingly broken (see other people's comments under this video) to merely powerful.
I would house rule the movement free glide costs movement unless it's from a height of at least 10ft and you fell not solely from a jump.
I plan to add a sort of parachute deployment delay to it. Glide 5ft per 1ft fallen after the first 5ft
Even if we ignore the 1ft jump 30 times in 6 seconds, that same character still gets between 15-30 extra movement with a running jump. More if there is anything nearby to climb, more if they are using some ability to gain height.
Heck, if you have the fly spell on you you suddenly gain 300ft movement speed, or more depending on how high you started the turn.
Dimension Door 500 feet into the air, then glide 2500 ft in one round without using any movement
And you haven’t even included movement boosts, dashing or otherwise building for speed. You could probably build a character that can go a mile in a turn pretty easily.
I like 5E engine. I’ll keep using my 2E supplements. After the ravenloft fiasco I’ll buy no more setting supplements for old settings. New settings I am open too
Shouldn't jumping only one foot up in the air and gliding 5 feet be landing prone or something? It's really no height at all.
Jumping from a 500 feet high cliff they would glide all the way down, 2500 feet away, in just one turn?
Prone, no. You only land prone if you land in difficult terrain (and you fail a DC 10 dexterity (acrobatics) check). Or if you take damage from the fall - which you do not from 1 foot fall.
Gliding 2500 in a turn. Yes.
I can't believe they put wavedashing into 5e
What would you suggest for revising the glide feature. at least for me, i hope to see 2 clarifications in the near future. 1 = you need to fall from a height of at least 10 ft in order to activate the glide by using your reaction, and then each 5 ft horizontal movement really does count as part of your movement speed. 2 = delete the part about avoiding the falling damage ... or else revise to say that if you ever do take falling damage for some reason, then you can use your reaction (if available) to reduce the falling damage by half, usable for your proficiency bonus times per long rest
If a player at my table wants to play the Hadozee, then I would want to discuss it beforehand. Personally, I would want to homebrew that they can only begin to glide once per turn. They still get a powerful glide ability, but they have to either lean into it using high jumps, or utilize the map. Still powerful, and flavorful, just not completely busted.
Don’t forget there is not only map, but also PCs, NPCs and monsters to climb on!
And there are things like Misty Step (150+ ft glide), Echo Knight (225-300 ft glide), Storm Sorcerer (50 ft glide if you cast leveled spell),…
So you cannot only limit it to number of times per round and minimal height (it would have to be 10ft+ to work properly), but also maybe limiting it that you cannot change direction mid-air and you cannot use your arms during the glide. Otherwise it would be easy to abuse for hit and run tactics midair during glides.
@@JuckiCZ Afaik, falling is instantaneous. Which leads me to believe you cannot attack while falling.
However, it still feels a bit broken since it does not trigger opportunity attacks. At the same time I am not sure how much I would want to nerf it without seeing it in action. I am convinced it needs to be nerfed. However, I am not sure how much. Which is why simply limiting it to once per turn feels like a good start.
@@Simon_Laserna I would just add Reaction cost to every Glide and most problems are solved.
I'm sure the RAW of Glide is poorly worded. I think the RAI of Glide should be the 1 f.t. of movement dropping down is what doesn't cost any movement. With that being said, you would still manage to move further than you normal move speed. Just my uneducated take on this situation.
If your ranger has a 600ft snipe, I don't see 150 ft of movement adding a lot of value since most opponents will be sniped to death before approaching you regardless.
A paladin or a barbarian however (or a strength based fighter), who rely on being in the thick of it will make excellent value of it.
I don't like the Hadozee anatomically. The skin flaps make no sense. How do they put on and take off clothes?
I don't see how the Hadozee could glide 5 ft forward simply by jumping one foot high if they didn't have any impetus to move forward to begin with. This is gliding, not powered flight. Maybe this jump-glide movement should only work with the 10 ft movement. An Hadozee with 8 Str would run 10 ft, then jump 2 ft up and glide 10 other feet, which would mean a total of 20 ft at the cost of 12 ft. He could do the maneuver again, so his movement would be 40 ft at the cost of 24, after which he could still run the remaining 8 ft, so 48 feet at the cost of 30. Less than a Dash, but he still can attack or cast a spell. Now imagine at 20 Str (probably a Barbarian). Run 10 ft, jump 8 ft high, glide 40 ft = 50 ft forward at the cost of 18. If he does it again, he could only jump 2 ft, 20 ft of movement at the cost of the 12 remain feet. For a total of 70 ft for a 30 ft movement. More than a Dash, and he still has an Action to spend.
As for attacks of opportunity, it did cost you movement: one foot to jump. So it should trigger attacks of opportunity.
Glide has to be house ruled until it is errata'd. I'd simply say the character cannot glide more times than the 10s digit of their land speed per move action. That's three times for most characters, so plenty to avoid AOO and give +15 feet moved. Still a good feature.
Fly my pretties!
Don't know why I'm just now thinking about this but an Echo Knight Hadozee would have the most insane mobility ever.
The hadozee have the back/dash cancelling ability of a Castlevania character. XD