The Forgotten Art of Lament with Sarah Benibo
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Today’s podcast guest, Sarah Benibo, joins Jackie and Preston to discuss the church’s relationship with lament - or lack thereof - and the reality that we can still worship God through our expression of sorrow and grief. She explains how we are to lament by pointing to N.T. Wright’s quote that says “Lament is an appeal to God based on confidence in His character.” Our lament says “God, you are good, that I know. This circumstance I’m facing is not. Help!”
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I feel like my brain increased 3 sizes after hearing this 😂
I love to hear people who fervently work out theology privately, then, come together corporately, and further tease their theology out with each other.
SAY THAT AGAIN FOR THE FOLKS IN THE BACK!🗣🗣🗣
i see why jackie said she loves this woman’s mind, WHEW
Whew! Is right. She's amazing
8 mins in and all i can say is she don't need interview questions, interview questions need herrr... and i love it
RIGHT!??? 💯💥❤
I love her passion for the Lord
MY GOD!! this is one of those videos you have to come back days later to watch because there’s so much to unpack & digest!!
I agree, God is definitely putting me through a pruning process about relationships.
“When grief comes out it makes room for life to come in .” -Preston Perry
I missed that.. whew... So true
I would argue that the African American experience of Christianity has historically had many songs of lament in our traditional hymns, negro spirituals. It is sad to me that as we have aligned with mainstream American Christianity (which isn't necessarily bad as we are all one body) we lost that history. It's important to hold onto what we knew as we combine. Everything we had ain't bad.
Black folk know about Lamenting….we trusted God even through our circumstances….we still believed 🙌🏾
True 👍🏽👍🏽
Haitian song books have a lot of songs of lamenting as well. I noticed the change is rooted in prosperity doctrine. We need another transition in the body.
I was thinking the same thing! The church has to learn to combine both because we experience trials AND we should learn to take them to our Father and practice praise in the pain. 💔❤️🩹❤️
I agree totally.
Did anyone else take notes?? Because what she said about the pre-fall 🤌🏾 now I’m looking at my son’s sadness so differently!
Yesssssss
After watching this I feel better equipped for my children. I don’t ever want to be dismissive of their feelings and experiences just because it’s different/more privileged than mine.
I was listening in the car and had to pause it until I could get home to take notes.
Bruuuhhhh
Yes, during and after the pandemic my daughter was going through depression and now I understand.
This was good. So many gems like “The Fall made it hard to be human” 🤯
right! I mean- Preston really dropped a knowledge bomb on us with that one! I never looked at it the way they just put it- like, the knowledge is what made us think we should have other “options”, a “workaround”, or “freedom instead of Godly order (not realizing we already had the best type of freedom)… makes soo much more sense now. The tree made us into our own gods, rather than appreciate that we were WITH God almighty already & had Him because we NEED Him, & even more so after the abundance of knowledge than we did prior to it. 🤦🏽♀️
Further, Preston’s example of telling his daughter no to something he knew was best for her but couldn’t explain in the moment why because she’s too young to understand- that was the perfect example of why some prayers go unanswered. I would even add that, sometimes we’re just not doing what God told us to do, yet we expect things from Him as if He’s some genie in a bottle. But that’s another topic for another day. 🤭
🙏🏽❤
@@memp9786appreciate your unpacking this, otherwise I could’ve missed❤
I am currently grieving and have found that my church has not helped me through this phase. it all has been about being better instead of going through it. thank you for this subject.
People don't know how to deal with sadness and grief bcuz it makes them uncomfortable 😢
If you haven't I can recommend listening to Tim Ross interview with Lexi it is very open and honest about grief I pray God bless you ❤
We have GriefShare curriculum in our church. Look it up and find a 13 week session cycle near you or online. It’s an amazing program and community!!!!
I'm so sorry for your loss! Praying you find the people/ tribe to get you to the other side of this and closer to Jesus in spite of your suffering. 🙏🙏🙏
I'm so sorry this was your experience.. I watched my sister grieve the fact that her church wasn't there while we were grieving the loss of our mom. Don't think the church had a clue how to effectively help. My prayer is I can some way somehow someday bring about change in this area
I just LOVE Sarah Benibo’s amount of expression, honesty and passion for God. This pod is MEAT for the note takers.
My new obsession is the word "lament". This is a blessed and necessary message 😢👌👌
Yes, It must be important to GOD since He devoted a whole Book to it. 😢(Lamentations) Lol
I got sick August 2022 out of the blue..i worked out 5 days a week, plant based, non smoker or drinker. The doctors could not figure out what was happening until it was too late. By December that same year I had lost my kidney function, my left leg amputated below the knee and right foot transmetatarsal amputation. I prayed for God to heal my body and I felt like He just wasn't listening. I was/am still confused and angry sometimes. I am processing and faithful I really needed to hear this. Thank you Perry family and your awesome guest.
Wow! I can feel the pain through your words. I hope you will experience wholeness from the inside out.
My dear I don't even know what to type. Is there any way that can I help you?
Whatever happens, know that I'm on my knees praying for you this moment.
May the Lord restore you in The name of JESUS.
May God send you help🙏
@nochso6835 thank you. I am in getting around in my new prosthetic, and I am in remission, and that is a blessing 😊
I’m so sorry, I think I know how you feel. My husband died from medical malpractice ( cancer), I got cancer, lost custody of my grandsons that I raised since babies, lost my house due to IRS taking $12000 over 10 weeks, then I got very very sick which was gaslighted for 2 years until it was discovered that I had Long COVID, lost my six figure job that I loved, betrayed by who I thought were friends and family. I KNOW lament, but it was there I discovered that Jesus will never leave me, and I came to know God in the very core of me that nothing, nothing can shake that. I can access that core of His presence in a millisecond.
Burrow yourself in Jesus.
The enemy does a good job making us feel like we are the only one going through things and to be silent about it. But then there’s El Shaddai ! He places people at certain times that speaks to something in you that you asked for Him in private. This is one of those times. Thank you 🥺🙏🏽
❤❤
Amen!
Yes, wonderfully put!♥
HEY PERRY'S CAN Y'ALL RUN THIS BACK NO CAP I HOPE PART TWO IS LOADING THIS WAS A WEALTH OF INFORMATION ❤
a godly man is a wonder, a testament of God’s grace and work. Look at how attentive Preston is to his children. How attuned and thoughtful he is in mentalizing their inner states. A black godly father! Yes!
Jackie recommended a book during the Tour she had in Nashville and it has ABSOLUTELY changed my LIFE!! I would encourage anyone going through grief to get. It’s called “Cry of the soul” by Dan Allendar. The way he writes is profound like none other I’ve ever read and I see where Jackie takes her inspiration from. That book has to be digested little by little and it’s heavy but the way he puts language to our emotions and pain and suffering and sorrow while emerging Heaven into the intricate details of such pain and what it’s like to really come to God and question even challenge his reasoning for such to his face because God actually enjoys when we come to him in rawness as opposed to fearing being vulnerable. He then takes you through the different psalms where David did the same. It’s so beautiful ❤
Just put it in my cart. Thanks ❤😊
@@cb4664it’s going to change you. Let me know how you like it. I will never look at emotions the same again esp In children
Yes, she put me on to D.A. also! You gotta check out another must read called, “To Be Told”! God bless you sis!
Lament gives God the opportunity to be what/who He has never been to you. 44:10
@@manofthekingdomI’m gonna have to purchase that now!! I had heartache redeemed and the one about Love but I returned them because his writings need to be digested at the right time. I’ll check this one out first. Anymore rec’s? I love the way DA writes
Sarah's brilliance oozes out just from her intro and response to Jackie's intro of her!
I really struggle with feeling negative... I literally told a friend I wanna be a robot because i feel guilty for feeling any sadness or disappointment towards God. Thank you for this conversation.
Amen Preston definitely ain't no slouch, him and Jackie really do compliment each other, I 💕 love them both
Nah. Can I have this woman as my friend please Lord. This is the truth we need on the daily!!! We are so blimmin' caught with our "discomfort" everyday than to just see it as the smallest of moments in comparison to eternity with Him!!!!!
When Preston said he asked for things that were inherently good but if he had received them, he would not have experienced God the way He wanted him to. Woo! Too true! God is not here to spoil us, God wants to mold us. ❤
My husband and I have been homeless since January with our 5 daughters. God has been so faithful, I really love the direction on grief in trials and Gods goodness.
I listened to this episode and had to come back and watch cuz it was that good! Please do a Part 2! So many gifted minds in the same room!
Same ✋
I almost pissed this pod, I felt it was something that i wouldn’t need. They asked such DEEP and profound questions that caused me to really reserve on how i looked at suffering and what God considers good !
Y’all always pull me closer to Christ 🤍🤍🙏🏽 ty, Amen
I’m hearing let’s bring balance to our worship and praise.
Such a deep conversation!! Thank you all. This came to mind as I was listening to this: Pre-fall work was not required to survive (everything they needed was already provided by God) it was a delight, something like a "hobby". However, after the fall, work became a curse and mandatory/so necessary to sustain one's life...to survive!
This is good!
19:06 “The Fall made it hard for us to be human” YES!
The beauty of our relationship with God is that us finite beings can forever draw all that is good from God as our Eternal source of Bread and Water.
The lie of Satan to Eve was that our humanity was not something to be grasped (I reference that intentionally), deluding us into forever chasing a divinity that we’re not made with.
We lie to ourselves, to God and to each other by making ourselves “gods”, with suffering being the result of our real limitations and sin’s attempt to delude us into believing we are God as judge and discerner of what is good and evil.
This episode is so timely! Bring Sarah back!
I can’t help but think that maybe because a lot of times ppl are not allowed to express how they feel at home. When it comes to sadness, disappointment, grief, etc. So in church we are also doing the same thing. I have seen a lot of times where it is said to cast your cares unto the Lord but no real way on how to do so and well. Especially when it comes down to lamenting, suffering, and all the things mentioned here. This was really good.
I was just thinking of kids who are told not to cry. 😢 esp boys
Like, how would you punish (or flog a child- for African parents) and then warn them not to cry? It's so painful seeing that my president kills protesters because the same thing happens on a smaller scale in our homes. You complain, you get whooped😢
I loved that they touched on Psalm 73. I recently prayed that scripture over myself, because I literally felt like my heart was failing me and I needed the Lord to strengthen it. That desire to emotionally detach can be so strong and overwhelming. I'm thankful that His spirit ministered to me and ministers to us.
I'm only 10 minutes in and Sarah's spirit and way of speaking / thinking is so beautiful!!!
THIS! Was! NEEE! DED!!!!
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Never seen or heard of her but
I love way she speaks and process her thoughts and how excited she is about the word and goodness of God! This was a beautiful episode
She is the bomb. I could listen to her all day ❤ so thought provoking!
4:27 “the way you support her” THAT PART one of my favorite things about their relationship 🫶🏾🫶🏾🤍💪🏾
Sarah is an amazing worshipper. I absolutely love the worship and the teaching of the word at Embassy City.
I have literally been saying this. We have to change our relationship with "pain" and how we view it. In doing so, we will resort less to escapism and be better developed throught it by God. We will also "suffer" better and with grace. This has not been my testimony. Events in my childhood taught me to escape or suppress to survive, but that has to be unlearned. Working now to view this season as a season of God developing or perfecting me rather than me hopelessly suffering. This episode is right on time.
AMEN
❤❤❤
I've been a christ follower for over 30 years, I was MIND BLOWN with some of this!
Sheeeeesh this message was for me. Been struggling with infertility for nearly 4 years. Despite how painful and awful it can be, it has dramatically altered my relationship with God in a radical way. I’ve gotten so much closer to him, he has healed me in so many other ways a part from my fertility, my obedience has greatly increased. The struggle has been so fruitful despite all the pain and me not fully understanding his ways at times. His ways are better than mine, his knowledge is greater than mine. Despite the difficulty I will trust in Him.
What a great conversation. I’ve thought about this a few times, that there was temptation before the fall and Adam and Eve still had choice before the fall. Like Jesus being tempted but without sin. Just because there was no sin doesn’t mean there was no work to be done, no choice to be made. Think of the angels that fell, they’ve only known heaven and yet they could still choose. I’m going to have to simmer on this for a while and study. Love this.
Thank you God for the grace you have lavish on us through these conversations!
He was despised and rejected, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief...Isaiah 53:3
This pod helped me gain understanding. Thank you.
I love this. I was also raised in a Pentecostal church. People forget that God's gifts, power, and anointing on one's life are not for them personally. It is to help others, and when we look to God as though the power He gave us is for us, we can become frustrated.
One of my best episodes yet. Those 3 points from Gen just renewed my mind on how to view discipleship. Work is good, interdependence is good, boundaries are good - Change of mindset in progress!
The Perry’s have had alot of great episodes but thissssss omg, this was an amazing conversation. So needed for the world 🙏🏾
at 58:17 that reference reminds me of Inside Out (the first movie) when sadness understood that Riley needed to feel ALL her emotions but Joy misunderstood it as an opportunity for HER to be even more present in Riley's life. This was an amazing analogy and if The Church understands this, I think true revival will happen in the nation
Second comment.. I learned about lamenting in grief share, however, the way she worded it... acknowledging that God is good, and my situation is bad but appealing to the character of who he is by saying "help"
❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️ i pray everyone will have the opportunity to listen to this.
This was such an engaging discussion. I had to pause it many times to construct and add substance to my thoughts.
1. I think there is suffering in realizing that we can only be LIKE God but we can never be God.
2. Adams job was to tend what God had already perfected and provided. The hard part after the fall was the fact that now Adam had to work on an imperfect soil but the Lord in his mercy still made sure the ground will be fruitful. He didn’t curse Adam, he cursed the ground. This is because he said ‘cursed be the ground, for through painful toil you will eat fruit’ .So to me the suffering comes because of our lack of acceptance that we can’t be God. Long suffering is part of the fruit of the spirit.
This conversation is so needed. Please 🙏🏽 Lord
This interview was just what I needed to gain more of an understanding of God and how to worship Him regardless of what I'm going through! He's special and I should always treat Him as such. Treat God as if He's my friend because He is! Sarah goes to my church and I'm so glad to see and witness her outside of the praise and worship she offers on Sundays. When I 1st visited the church, I was amazed at how worship seemed so attainable watching her. She gave me encouragement to let go and give God all He deserves in that moment along with honoring Him on a daily basis. When I joined the church, it was the week before the church's 9th anniversary and I was able to sing in the choir. Being in rehearsal was a totally different experience than I had ever experienced singing in a choir. They were worshipping as if it was Sunday morning. I've sang in groups and choirs pretty much all my life and I just turned 39 so you know I've experienced a lot of different atmospheres with choirs and praise teams. Anyway, I'm rambling lol....Sarah is what you see in this interview and she speaks simple but deep and u could listen to her all day ...at least I can.
I was blessed by reading this. Thank you for sharing it.
SARAH!!!! Such a powerhouse Worship Pastor...one of my favorites!
And this has brought me back to the HEART of worship . Forever grateful for THIS episode of the Perry . GOD is GOOD .
This only happened to me once- when TD Jakes came to my former church- New Birth. It happened that I came into the sanctuary and immediately I felt a wave of grief, genuine grief. I had the overwhelming desire to cry and I did cry. And I am not a weeper. The unction came on me in waves and I prayed and cried and prayed and cried for almost the whole break between services. It was seriously intense. Thank God that He didn’t leave me there.
“Lament is an appeal to God based on confidence in His character.” NT Wright. This is amazing! Needed today! God’s Chosen is one of my fave & certainly one of the most underrated Gospel vocal groups. Been listening to them many years. Gifted, anointed women. Check ‘em out. Thanks guys for this insightful and useful pod. I think we can feel better about expressing sad feelings when we realize it’s all part of how the Lord expects to hear from us. He knows our struggles. We shouldn’t stay grounded in lament, but we surely need to express it to our LORD. Good stuff! 💪🏽🙏🏽✝️
Minister Jackie 😂😂😂😂😂😂 "you coulda put the Argon oil you put on your beard on me" 😂😂😂
This was amazing! You young people are making a difference. Reminding me of being widowed at 35 and wrestling with my pain, but being certain of my faith. Being absolutely entrenched in pure grief, fear, and depression and simultaneously surety of who God is. I remember saying I can not live like this, and I can do all things as you give me strength.
This was soo on time. Last month I lost my uncle to cancer and it’s been a tough month. Going to church and hearing all the praise songs was exactly what Preston mentioned. It felt like such a clash. I feel so seen lol. Thank you all for the ministry that you provide 🤍
Finally, a conversation that expresses the years of of my walk that I felt so misunderstood or could not accurately communicate because most churches don’t even scratch this surface at all. Thank you! The back and forth of questions and working out clarity and understanding is top tier. I love it! ❤
I love the song “man of sorrows” it’s one of the first worship songs I learned to love
Chills!! Lord you took my anchors away, ny mom, my grandma ... Still, I place you in high esteem and I will go to you with my tears.. Thank you for this Perry's
I sent this to my son. I asked him to listen, if only to minutes 22-23. I hope he listens. That's a whole sermon.
I didn’t even know what lament was if I even spelled it right🙏🏽 this is so good praise the Lord🙏🏽
Oh I needed this, oh Lord did I need this. Thank you so much for delivering this message ❤️ I deeply resonate with this... my heart is yearning,... longing... lamenting in this season, and I haven't heard a better message on the topic of lament other than this right here. God bless you Perry's and Sarah. Love from NZ. Your word has been ever so healing to me.
This episode is so packed
A lot to take note of.
You definitely can’t listen to this episode on the go.
She does have a similar thought process like @the perrys
You definitely can’t listen and learn
Thank you so much for this
Sarah is amazing , I got to experience her singing at our woman’s conference last month !!
what a great episode!
This whole conversation was a feast. It touched my heart in such a special way and was a timely word from the Lord. Thank you for this gift.
Lamenting is one of my favorite topics. "Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy" by Mark Vroegop is a really great book that breaks down what it means to lament as well! Loved this conversation 💛
Minute 56: the wedding vs the funeral. Thank you for speaking on this because it gives language to why it became easier to search on YT for a particular sermon that spoke to my "grieving season" as compared to the continual celebration that was happening at the church I was attending.
He has shown Himself to be most beautiful and precious, not only in saving me from 6 cancers, but in being near in my children's suffering and the death of my marriage, even while I begged Him to do what He alone is able to do, and I keep telling Him, I know He can do abundantly more than all I can ask or imagine, it doesn't look good yet...but He's changed me to want Him for Himself more fully because of all this disappointment
I love this so much!! I see what Jackie meant about her mind 🥰🥰🥰
During my depression, psalms helped me a lot. I just cried to God while having faith he will get me through. Smokie Norful "I need you know", Yolanda Adams "Open up My Heart", "Battle Is Not Yours", Hillsong "I Surrender" helped me get into prayer. Create a playlist with songs that speaks to your lamenting and pray. Never isolate even when people seem annoying and bothersome. When someone offers to do some chores for you, allow them even when you feel like a burden. These things may be easier said then done but I got to the other side because of it 🙏🏿
This conversation is on such a high level. Mind changing. Will listen again. Need a part 2.
I'm not even 15 minutes in and this is the most insightful and liberating conversation I've ever heard. As someone who has also lived a "boring" life but still struggled mentally
Jesus I had to pause this video. I experienced this during my father's final stages before he pasted last year. I would literally go in my closet and cry out. God you are good and this I know but I don't understand, God you are joy but I'm sad right now... Jesus I need comfort though music right now and I turn on Amazon music and every song got me out of that sad state. Jesus thank you for the holy spirit
Praying for you baby girl. ❤
This has been one of my most favourite episodes to watch. The conversation wrestled in me and rested in my heart because every which way it went and turned Jesus ended up slap bang in the centre ❤🙌🏽
This is my best conversation from this channel so far! I can not like it enough!!
The funeral space vs the wedding space was so factual
Im in my season of grieving, thank Lord for giving the words to describe what I've been feeling.
This was a conversation that I could have listened to for a couple of more hours. Great conversation!
May this episode be FOREVER cherished!!!
I always love the Perry's intros. Them roasting each other, hilarious! ❤
I LOVE HER & HER MIND!
This was such a necessary conversation. Lament is actually a form of worship and more people need to give themselves permission to lament along with the tools to do it well so that it reverences God 🙌🏾🤍
Soo deep I believe our lament is worship when we take our sadness, anger, feelings of rejection, hopelessness to God the one who who was and is and is yet to come we acknowledge who is the real God and that is worship to the true King.
This conversation is so profound, probably my favorite episode
Can highly recommend a book called Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy on the topic of lament. It’s very practical and biblically rooted on how to walk through lament.
Thank yall for these conversations. We label them as hard and maybe they are, but thank you 😭
This was a beautiful conversation 🙏🏾🫶🏾 pray you feel better better Jackie! You have given us so much of you God wants rest now!
This was GOOD! My goodness- made me realize that I have lamented at times in my grief. If I could explain it all but thank y'all for putting a name to that feeling 🥹 The pain of loss and I could still thank God for showing me thru that loss who He was. He didnt heal my Granny for me but He showed me who He was. 🙌🏾
I’m in the nail shop about to cry this is what I’ve been feeling but couldn’t communicate it. Thank you all
Part 2 is necessary this was too good!
Ok sarah go off!!! You are so brilliant and wise girl!!!!!👏👏👏
I can’t even express how much this conversation was needed! God is so good! I was just having thoughts around this and a lady in my small group was asking questions that made me reflect on this. The timing of God 🤌🏾
Not gonna lie, I think this is THE best episode by far! I watched it twice already and it has put all my existential crisis to rest 🙌🏽
I'm so grateful that this sister is in the Kingdom. This podcast with her is one of my favorites.
I lost it when she sang that song 😭😭😭 I’ve been so grieved. It so ministered to me.
This was soo rich, beautiful and necessary. It has encouraged me to explore more on suffering and how to suffer well. Like someone else mentioned, my brain also feels 3x bigger after watching to this and I’ll probably come back to it again and again.
I met Sarah at the bathroom of embassy city when I traveled for family and found their church! Didn’t know but 10 minutes later that bright ball of joy and happiness (Sarah) hopped up on stage for the message of the service! She is so sweet and so intelligent! ❤️🙏