Why did Revan pick the Exile? - KoTOR Theory
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- Опубликовано: 16 мар 2023
- How did Revan come to the decision to place the future Jedi Exile in charge of activating the Mass Shadow Generator? Was it only due to her action during the Battle of Dxun or could that have only been one of multiple reasons?
A big special thank you goes out to viewer, Archsteel for inspiring this video.
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While I find your suggestion that Revan anticipated the Exile's decision to cut herself off from the Force interesting, I don't think that was originally a part of his expectations or plans. I think he thought she would either die or become consumed by the Dark Side like all the others, becoming somewhat like Nihilus. That's why we see a Dark Side Exile at Revan's side in the tomb on Korriban, because that was what was 'meant' to happen (and could potentially happen anyway) - the Exile falls and becomes Revan's apprentice and weapon against his enemies. Revan, being a master strategist, finds a new use for the Exile after she renounces the Force, but I don't think that was what Revan hoped for or expected would happen.
I agree. I think as a dark side apprentice, he knew Meetra would be a better option than Malak. Meetra could think tactically and strategically on a level only surpassed by Revan himself. Malak, however, was just a brute that I believe Revan knew wouldn’t understand his grand plan
@@Engine33Truck Revan and Malak were an inseparable pair throughout the war, I imagine as they both slowly fell prehaps Revan decided to keep his more simple minded friend by his side as his one connection to his past as the honourable Jedi hero who defeated the Mandolorians. For a while, it seems in the flashbacks, Malek was acting as Revan's well conscious as seen in the moment the two go to the Star Map on Dantooine.
Also I think that moment, happens before the war. Given the context of the scenes - implying prehaps Revan was the Exar Kun to Maleks Ulic Qel Droma.
This video was well written. I've played this game a dozen times and still find things I missed.
Thank you very much. I try my best.
Also meetra surik gotta be one of the best characters ever written
Yet, she doesn't say anything and is still a far better character than Rey.
@@stephenhansen1789Or Ahsoka
@@lukescrew1981 not wrong there, but from what I heard, her series could have been better.
@@stephenhansen1789 Everything Filoni makes could've been better
@@lukescrew1981 Also heard that too.
I feel like your thumbnails have been great lately. Keep up the great work 👍
Well I've been trying. Thanks, man!
"I think Revan pitied You Master."
Revan knew, what had to be done, yet he felt sorry for Meetra. She was a great lider, general, a person with great compassion. But in the end, it was her compassion and empathy that allowed her to cut herself off the Force and not fell to the Dark Side
In this days at school i'm studing the tragedies of Aeschylus, the greek father of the tragic genre. His view of the world is best summarized by one quote from his tragedy "Agamemnon" : πάθει μάθος ("pathei mathos"), that can be best translated to "learning through suffering".
Lol, the Exile has a habit of being used by people who are masters of scheming. I guess that comes with the territory of being an exceptional individual. All eyes would be on you.
On another note, I agree sentiment of pain being an effective teacher. I think it's a simple lesson, really. But one that is very easy to forget. Especially when pleasurable experiences are far more seductive. Even the absence of pain can be enough to persuade one to never take on a challenge and sit stagnant.
I always thought that Revan wanted to kill the Exile by putting her in that position. As she was a natural leader, inspiring followers, and was rising to the rank of general she posed a threat to Revan inside his army.
Exactly this, 100%.
It's comparable to a spoiled child hating a natural talent. For all his accolades and words of greatness from others, he still had to _work_ for his position in the Republic Army, to earn the trust of his soldiers/officers. Meanwhile, there's the Exile working her way up from battlefield commander to General of the Fleet on equal standing with Revan/Malak in under 3 years, you know that was a huge hit to his pride that was built up for years.
Revan's purpose with placing the Exile at command at Dxun, then again at Malachor V, was to ultimately kill her and weed out all those who unquestionably followed her. Especially those who had questioned _his_ leadership during the war. The game even says this outright in a loading screen text of all things. Revan also intentionally delayed his part in these battles, so as to appear as the savior when he finally arrived.
He wanted this to be done with at Dxun, figuring that all the slaughter would be enough to do the task, but it failed. This no doubt grew frustration in him, and planted the seed for taking such drastic action with Malachor V.
the idea of revan being still pretty darksidedly evil and wanting to undermine Meetra is an interesting one and would represent another foil to her story, like Revan was this gray good intentioned sith that wanted to save the republic yadda yadda yadda, but he did so by causing mass death in a massacre that broke everyone but Meetra, thought invading the Republic would push them to grow back (which maybe could worked if it wasnt for the next par-) and of course left himself vulnerable to malak taking over and ruining any progress he made and killing most jedi and nearly destroying the republic. Revan so much tried to prepare for the True Sith but in the end the Republic was doomed, and it took Meetra's opposite mentality to actually help others and heal planets and recover people from the trauma she has caused and regretted and learn the good aspects of Kreia's philosophy, that led her to achieving what Revan wanted, a fixed Republic and able to face the True Sith alongside a reformed Revan.
This is a great analysis. However, I'm reminded by your earlier video of 'if a Jedi without the Force is still a Jedi'. When the Exile came back to Coruscant to face judgement; the Council clearly saw a Jedi can still be a Jedi without the Force. Why could they not accept that truth?
Leaving 👍 here to support your channel. Is amazing how though-provoking is your SW and KOTOR content.
Great theory now I know what means that hologram on Dantooine with Vrook and Vandar (now I have another reason for loving this masterpiece angloside the restored content mod)
I like to think that he knew, and that he deeply regretted using her the way he did. But it had to be done. They were at war and everything was at stake.
Perhaps. Although if he was a good student of Kreia he would make his choices without regret.
@@PapitoQinn A fair point, but if you ask me, there is no such thing as "no regrets". Even Kreia had regrets, it's an unavoidable reality of life. We can only speculate, but I personally think that Revan cared for Surik just as much as he cared for Alek, even as Dark Lord of the Sith. They were his childhood friends who followed him loyally into the bloodiest war the galaxy has ever known. At the end of KOTOR 1 after you defeat Malak one of the dialogue choices is "I'm sorry I led you down this path." In SWTOR when you free him, Surik's force ghost appears to comfort him. He vaguely mentions that he didn't deserve her loyalty and that she meant "much more" to him than he had previously thought.
I don't acknowledge SWToR in these videos. So I don't really know.
@Papito Qinn SWTOR was alright. It gets a lot of undeserved hate if you ask me. I still would have preferred if Revan went away to face the Yuuzhan Vong instead of the hidden Sith Empire on Drommund Kaas.
@dannybodros5180 he wasn't ever going to face the vong tho....
Love the theory videos. Keep it up
After the mandalorian wars is when I was hit by a ship at sea trying to save Bastilia and that’s when my master kavar carried me back to duxon to be healed and that’s when my master carried me out of the sea and helped me to heal
Been away for nearly 6 months. Seeing my name in video. Made me happy.
Ay another great video thanks man 👨
Average student of the force? Mediocre Jedi? Well thats rude af!
I hope this guy didn't become a force ghost
Well I mean... Vrook. What else are we supposed to expect from him? As always though: Thank you very much for the continued support!
Considering how Vrook dies, there is a 0% chance of that.
@@PapitoQinn Oh thank ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ Kreia for that!
Revan is a master strategist and can see possibilities others cannot. That being said, I do not think Revan knew Meetra would sever her connection to the force. It sounds like Meetra was far enough away from Malachor V when she gave the order to use the Mass Shadow Generator. It's possible Meetra felt more of an effect due to her strengthened bonds. So while Sion and Nihilus were likely on the surface, Meetra was on a ship further away than many ships. The rest of the Jedi around her fell to the Dark Side.
It is said that Revan wanted Meetra to go before the council, but it is not said whether he decided this before or after Malachor V. It worked out in Revan's favor Meetra went back because it shook the Jedi Council to their core. That's what makes the Exile's choice so peculiar; to sever rather than fall. It took Kreia years to learn why. So it is unlikely Revan would have known. The Mandalorian War had a great effect on the Jedi who fought, and it's likely Revan and Meetra were on the same page.
I believe Revan's strong tie to the force could have given him the ability to sense the exile had the ability to defy the will of the force and turn from it. Or perhaps, as Kreia was able to see the future from malachor, Revan could have forseen the exile's role in his time at malachor
Omg yoda!
Meetra surrik was inspiring to others and loved her friends and with Jedi your not allowed to love that was our first issue and our first fallout
❤❤❤ meetra surrik was me for 20 years so I learned everything about the Jedi and also protection of basilica was blind and mission had to be taught the Jedi ways
I've never seem that recording of Vrook and Vandar, another thing I never bothered doing after I was done with a planet
Well then now you have. You're welcome and thanks for watching!
I like how you used some music from halo 3 odst
Thank you. I combined "Deference for Darkness" with "The Light at the End".
@@PapitoQinn tbh I like your videos mostly I think your kreia sorry if i buchered her name is one of the best star wars charaters ever written. she did the whole deception thing before Palpatine
I find it hard to believe that Revan knew Meetra Surik could cut herself off from the force and become a wound. The obvious reason why Revan choose the Exile was because of her military exploits during the Mandalorian Wars. It's true Master Zez-Kai-Ell knew Revan sought knowledge about force bonding but again how would he know Meetra severed her connection to the force without her knowing and form a bond with Kreia to regain the force
You lost me on that last sentence. Could you rephrase it please?
From playing KOTOR 2 and the discussions Meetra has had with Kreia in the game that she started regaining her connection to the force because of the bond she formed with Kreia. Meetra subconsciously cut herself off from the force because of activating the Mass Shadow Generator on Malachor V. During the time Meetra was in exile she could not feel the force anymore since was a wound but again because of her encounter with Kreia she began to feel the force again
The exile meetra surrik is me and I am reven 😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤
Very nice
Thank you!
I am that exile I can explain it all
Though that begs the question of how did Revan know? Was he simply a genius, capable of those levels of intelligence? Or did he see it through the Force, thus implying that it was the will of the Force?
Raises the question, not begs*
HK47 believes Revan wanted The Exile to face Jedi Council and as you said Exile was ready to leave the order if they ask her to leave. But... there is a but... How did Kreia know what Revan want for the Exile? How did she know The Exile was ready to leave the Jedi? How did she learn about all this stuff and orchestrate events for Revan's will, to the point where she brainwashed Atris to order the Exile to hand over her lightsaber? Yes, Kreia was most certainly Revan's Kae but she shouldn't know about such deep thoughts of Revan, right? Now these theories lead me to two predictions: Either Kreia trained Revan so differently that Revan thinks just like Kreia or she orchestrated Revan's life until Revan, for some reason, turned to the Dark Side.
Or was it all just a coincidence? Revan wanted Exile to face Council, and it happened because of Kreia but not for the reason that I stated, but for the reason that she became a wound in the force.
Well actually I said that the Exile was ready to go to the council if they summon her. Her leaving is expected because people just do that whenever the Jedi exiles people. Kreia didn't know what Revan wanted and it didn't play into anyone plan.
@@PapitoQinn Fair point. What if The Exile wouldn't leave? If I'm not wrong according to Mical, she would still be a Jedi if she had not accepted the exile. What would be different for the fate of the galaxy? Would Zez-Kai Ell still leave the council? What would be the fate of the Miraluka people? Do you think this "what if" question could be the title of another video?
What if the Jedi Exile never left the Jedi? Well according to Mical the Jedi council would Exile her, but she doesn't actually have to go anywhere. The Jedi council wouldn't consider her a Jedi, even if she continues to follow the teachings and there's no way for the Jedi to force her out. If she stayed she might have been killed by Sion.
@@PapitoQinn You know what, when you think about it, this Jedi wouldn't consider her a Jedi but it also wouldn't change the fact that she is a Jedi thing sounds just like current plot of The Mandalorian. They didn't consider him a Mandalorian for a while because he took off his helmet but if he had continued to see himself as Mandalorian, their unwritten rules of beliefs wouldn't have mattered.
I was a general and a Jedi exile😊😊😊😊
Meetra surrik was half a mermaid and half immortal
Meetra surrik was a Jedi Guardian and she followed reven to war to protect the other jedi🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
"Kreia is a mediocore Jedi and lusts for power" ..."lead to the dark side!"
Dude, I love Kreia, but... That is true!
I don’t think Revan knew what Meetra would do. I think he believed she would fall to the dark side. It’s been said that was his most trusted general. I think she was with the fleet he intended to lose at Malachor V because she was the only logical choice to lead it in which it would have a chance of success. I think Revan viewed her as too much of an asset to lose.
But we know she wasn't part of the fleet directly over Malachor V. She was on the outside looking in and activating the mass shadow generator.
Make a "what was he cooking?" thumbnail
For who? I don't think we ever seen anyone cooking in either KoTOR game. Jolee? What was he cooking in the Shadowlands? I don't know... Tach soup?
Then with being pregnant with my son they had already killed my husband to be on Dantaween
To claim anything you know about revan and I the exile is something beyond you so tread easy on these suggestions for it was I and reven who did this together ❤❤❤❤❤❤ im meetra surriks baby sister Angelique Flay the falcon and the beacon 🚨❤❤❤❤
I was pregnant with my son calt Quinn
It's not insightful or thought provoking, but it's a comment.
You have to understand that nothing is universal in this regard. The comment provoked me into thought. So much so that it resulted in an entire video.
Another good video, but the need to theme the Exile as "Meetra Surik" is quite unnecessary, since this doesn't count on the TOR MMO. In my opinion, they should have been deemed with a gender-and-moral ambiguous state.
Well it does get tiring referring to the Exile in neutral terms.
@@PapitoQinn I never tire, for it is what should be natural, Drew Karpyshyn's TOR opinions be darned.