I found this interview very insightful! Brian’s experience corroborates some of my experience with the church having worked as an engineering consultant for various temples, the city creek parking garage project and numerous church building projects. through all those years I was able to get glimpses of the inner workings of the church. I saw good hearted people trying to do their best and I also saw uninspired experimentation using tithing dollars for projects which were scrapped. In the end, I saw a complex multilayered bureaucracy with many ‘underlings’ who felt they couldn’t voice their opinions to management leaders for fear of getting slapped down. During those years I often wondered, “is Jesus really behind and supporting all this?” With His infinite intelligence He would reveal a better way that would: 1. Be a whole lot simpler. 2. Use resources to Help humanity in supremely impactful ways. 3. Women would have a voice and position to provide a balance to us imperfect men for better decision making. 4. Toxic leadership would not be tolerated.
This is sometimes a challenge for me, but my wife and other people that I hold dear are active and believing so I have to hold space for them. It helps me to center my thoughts.
This was a solid interview. Couldn’t have been easy to lay this all out in public. Thanks for being vulnerable Brian. Edit: I look forward to the next chat.
Thank you Scott. This is an extremely professional interview, thus easy to listen to. Brian Harris you are amazingly courageous for sharing your blessings experience from a factual experiential perspective and I appreciate it very much. ♥️
Excellent insights as usual. I've mentioned this before, but I so relate to Scott, and now add Brian to my remote support group. I understand that everyone has different circumstances, and we can't fully empathize, but the strength and support the sharing of experiences like these provide me are invaluable. This resonates. As long as you keep sharing, I'll keep listening.
Good Interview. Thank you for being so Brave to talk about your experience. I'm glad I never had the chance to work in HQ to see the sausage be made. Instead I had been 'mending 'minds' back together from friends who have worked at the HQ building. It's certainly not a work cut out for a lot of people. It seemed like a weird dread-looming environment. Everyone happy and congenial on top, but in the work force or bottom the top looms over you and puta weird eternal nimbus of dread over the workers too keep conforming/ compliant. Quite a few alluded to a weird sort of behavior that one was only happy by a forced sense of being happy to keep the Top structure entertained until it warped their view that the Top was correct and right because this sort of 'happiness' was regulated/ enforced so much. I had a friend who was responsible picking out the stories for the Ensign for the counsel/inspiration section for a few months. Her story sort of horrified me (This was 13-14 yrs ago). The stories that one picks from as she had stated were the entries that the Member sent in about being stuck in life and looking for direction/ leaders would not provide adequate council; or church leadership nightmare stories that the member were still stuck in or what led to a tragedy by their over zealous ward making decisions for them; or stories of tragedy and loss and the member questioning the council that was provided to them in practice. She said that the saddest stories were competed against to find the saddest, then they would go in and re-edit the story to fit as closely possible to the first presidency's message to turn the story into an inspirational one + remove the actual names of the individuals affected + they change some details. They basically hollow out someone's tragedy and use the misery/suffering for a vehicle for a 'better story' I was enraged at her telling of her account, FURIOUS! When I was back active, I argued with her I thought she was lying, I'd argue Doesn't the First Presidency construct the Ensign? She said that the First Presidency is only responsible for their message, and then they review the magazine once it's constructed and they either approve of the magazine for the month or add their own recommendation to edit. She said that there were depts in the office that were responsible for different section of the collaboration and edit of the Ensign. She eventually got out of that job as the stories just ate into her. She wanted to reach out to some of the families affected by tragedy, but she was forbidden by the policies in place.
Thanks so much for sharing. The pressure to check all the spiritual boxes while working for the church is real! I ended up losing my job at BYU because I was going through a faith crisis and I am still looking for university work. It was so emotionally painful to have my income tied to my personal beliefs. Bishop roulette is tricky, and people who are honest about their doubts sometimes suffer, but it's healing to hear others stories. Thanks for sharing publicly!
"When an honest man discovers he is mistaken. He will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." Have you looked to online universities? Just a thought ♡
As a TBM, I sometimes considered a job with the church. And even though I was faithful and believing, I never felt right about the possibility of a worthiness interview taking away my ability to support my family. I didn't want to face a situation where I might have to lie to the bishop in order to keep my job.
It’s a bunch of bull crap that a bishop would have authority over one person‘s job I am an employee with the church at church headquarters and it always lingers over me because I would like to be more vocal in my opinions and my thoughts about the church but I don’t wanna say the wrong thing to where now I’ve lost my job because of Bishop decides to pull my temple recommend I think it’s a bunch of crap.
Brian’s recounting of his encounter with his bishop infuriated me. The gall of some random businessman with an unearned ecclesiastical title deciding he needs to “protect the church” from someone who is trying to be faithful is just staggering. Sounds like a wannabe petty dictator with delusions of self-importance.
I remember as a missionary (1989), we had a blue card stock one page "planner". We were told it was developed by "church leadership", and if we used it we would be blessed. The irony of these things being developed like any other "product" but being passed off as inspired is sad.
Agreed 'Loyalty' and Dogmatic (All in 100% Compliant). If one doesn't feel the 'all in' of another it doesn't matter if someone is practicing 100% it's still perceived unworthy.
Lunch sounds great. I don't live in the bubble, but when I make it out that way next, I'll be sure to announce it on facebook in case anyone wants to get together.
Enjoy this format with honest openess. I'm presuming that this employment and many others are financed by tithing donations, but it would be interesting to have heard that been confirmed in the discussion.
I'm just very surprised that he was able to be on a faith crisis while working at HQ and he was not noticed. The church has their own 'bull dogs' and sniffers able to detect people throwing off blocked vibes or vibes not aligned to the 'procedural attitude' atmosphere. These individuals are empaths raised under the church. If they are noticed by the church they are trained in a few techniques to offset the individual to sift for defectors or to identify weakness/a sort of inferiority to work in those places. It's gets hairier than that... those individuals collect and collaborate to flush out defectors and have very little personal/moral boundaries themselves to go after individuals. And others are influenced to reassign 'the weak' to be re-educated or to re-affirm their energy/career to become a follower to another following under the organization. Other programs, one must be qualified to their Leader until they speak the right words, have the 'right' attitude, and are submissive enough to be counted as righteous. Several businesses in UT county, SLC are still structured like this, taking a page from church, Young Living, DoTerra, also a lot of non MLM businesses - call centers, offices etc looking for praise to be mostly LDS composed or LDS endorsed.. Most often these corrupt businesses police their own, 'Thought Police' and tie their own disciplinary measures back to your membership or pressure your membership to be affected by their influence. Usually they find the details on your Home Stake/ward through coercing the obedience, righteousness, or holiness from their own employees believing in all these aspects and then baiting appease/triggers through those as influencing a warped belief of having the right to work there or 'being qualified to work'. (When the business is even Non LDS) All personal information one shares in the work place is 'discovered' or coerced by whoever is ringleading the control over the individual. Other power plays at work can emerge if they discover one is infracting on some practices of the faith, ie skipped church one week. These bias businesses exercise their own business like church discipline or they can even bar/withhold you to promotion or raises off of their own prejudice to LDS practices infringed than anything business related and their sector of business/industry has nothing to do with HQ/LDS church business. If one desires a low drama environment in UT County... try to aim for a business that organized Out of State. In-State you'll find most businesses with strong LDS intention/influence will mess with your benefits, Off time, Vacation, Leave, 401k on the basis of their own believed self-righteousness or 'worthiness program' they believe in internally.
Perhaps my journalist background helos me to truly consider the appropriate use of word meanings that any 12 yr. old can appreciate. The use of the word FAITH has absolutely nothing to do with the LDS Church. One can only have faith in God and Jesus Christ. Any voiced commentary about the church or its leaders have been false doctrine.... When Joseph restored the GOSPEL... there was no CHURCH. The two are not one. Saying "the church is true, is NOT EQUIVALENT WITH SAYING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST IS TRUE!
![Midnight Mormons Steal My Research! [RFM 367]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SD9qrjMRn8g/mqdefault.jpg)
I found this interview very insightful! Brian’s experience corroborates some of my experience with the church having worked as an engineering consultant for various temples, the city creek parking garage project and numerous church building projects. through all those years I was able to get glimpses of the inner workings of the church. I saw good hearted people trying to do their best and I also saw uninspired experimentation using tithing dollars for projects which were scrapped. In the end, I saw a complex multilayered bureaucracy with many ‘underlings’ who felt they couldn’t voice their opinions to management leaders for fear of getting slapped down. During those years I often wondered, “is Jesus really behind and supporting all this?” With His infinite intelligence He would reveal a better way that would: 1. Be a whole lot simpler. 2. Use resources to Help humanity in supremely impactful ways. 3. Women would have a voice and position to provide a balance to us imperfect men for better decision making. 4. Toxic leadership would not be tolerated.
I agree completely. I'm sure you've got some interesting stories from your time working as a consultant for the church.
Scott, much gratitude for your work, your willingness to share, to think, to question, and stay curious while also staying out of judgment.
This is sometimes a challenge for me, but my wife and other people that I hold dear are active and believing so I have to hold space for them. It helps me to center my thoughts.
I enjoyed this interview. And I enjoyed Brian's attitude toward the Church. Here's the facts, I'm gone, no hatred.
Host Scott, you're really growing on me. This is the start of something amazing.
Fascinating
This was a solid interview. Couldn’t have been easy to lay this all out in public. Thanks for being vulnerable Brian. Edit: I look forward to the next chat.
Great interview. Thanks
Great interview.
Thank you Scott. This is an extremely professional interview, thus easy to listen to.
Brian Harris you are amazingly courageous for sharing your blessings experience from a factual experiential perspective and I appreciate it very much. ♥️
Thanks for the kind words. Brian will be back for two more episodes of about equal length.
I loved this episode! Can't wait for next week's episode! Thanks Scott and Brian!
Loved this interview. Looking forward to hearing more from Brian.
Interesting information. Thanks fo sharing.
Well done, simple, honest and compelling.
This was really good! Thank you to Brian for sharing his story - looking forward to the next episodes!
Excellent insights as usual. I've mentioned this before, but I so relate to Scott, and now add Brian to my remote support group. I understand that everyone has different circumstances, and we can't fully empathize, but the strength and support the sharing of experiences like these provide me are invaluable. This resonates. As long as you keep sharing, I'll keep listening.
Good Interview. Thank you for being so Brave to talk about your experience.
I'm glad I never had the chance to work in HQ to see the sausage be made. Instead I had been 'mending 'minds' back together from friends who have worked at the HQ building.
It's certainly not a work cut out for a lot of people. It seemed like a weird dread-looming environment. Everyone happy and congenial on top, but in the work force or bottom the top looms over you and puta weird eternal nimbus of dread over the workers too keep conforming/ compliant.
Quite a few alluded to a weird sort of behavior that one was only happy by a forced sense of being happy to keep the Top structure entertained until it warped their view that the Top was correct and right because this sort of 'happiness' was regulated/ enforced so much.
I had a friend who was responsible picking out the stories for the Ensign for the counsel/inspiration section for a few months. Her story sort of horrified me (This was 13-14 yrs ago).
The stories that one picks from as she had stated were the entries that the Member sent in about being stuck in life and looking for direction/ leaders would not provide adequate council; or church leadership nightmare stories that the member were still stuck in or what led to a tragedy by their over zealous ward making decisions for them; or stories of tragedy and loss and the member questioning the council that was provided to them in practice.
She said that the saddest stories were competed against to find the saddest, then they would go in and re-edit the story to fit as closely possible to the first presidency's message to turn the story into an inspirational one + remove the actual names of the individuals affected + they change some details.
They basically hollow out someone's tragedy and use the misery/suffering for a vehicle for a 'better story'
I was enraged at her telling of her account, FURIOUS! When I was back active, I argued with her I thought she was lying, I'd argue Doesn't the First Presidency construct the Ensign?
She said that the First Presidency is only responsible for their message, and then they review the magazine once it's constructed and they either approve of the magazine for the month or add their own recommendation to edit. She said that there were depts in the office that were responsible for different section of the collaboration and edit of the Ensign.
She eventually got out of that job as the stories just ate into her. She wanted to reach out to some of the families affected by tragedy, but she was forbidden by the policies in place.
This was amazing. Thank you both!
Thanks so much for sharing. The pressure to check all the spiritual boxes while working for the church is real! I ended up losing my job at BYU because I was going through a faith crisis and I am still looking for university work. It was so emotionally painful to have my income tied to my personal beliefs. Bishop roulette is tricky, and people who are honest about their doubts sometimes suffer, but it's healing to hear others stories. Thanks for sharing publicly!
I'm glad listening to Brian's story was helpful for you.
"When an honest man discovers he is mistaken. He will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." Have you looked to online universities? Just a thought ♡
@@manderson4803 Great suggestion! Unfortunately I teach dance classes, so online work is more sparse.
As a TBM, I sometimes considered a job with the church. And even though I was faithful and believing, I never felt right about the possibility of a worthiness interview taking away my ability to support my family. I didn't want to face a situation where I might have to lie to the bishop in order to keep my job.
It is as if the church encourages dishonesty in such situations.
Better you than others, right? Oh well, too late now, I guess.
i love the dialogue between you two you compliment each other very well
thanks for sharing it with us 😊
It’s a bunch of bull crap that a bishop would have authority over one person‘s job I am an employee with the church at church headquarters and it always lingers over me because I would like to be more vocal in my opinions and my thoughts about the church but I don’t wanna say the wrong thing to where now I’ve lost my job because of Bishop decides to pull my temple recommend I think it’s a bunch of crap.
Brian’s recounting of his encounter with his bishop infuriated me. The gall of some random businessman with an unearned ecclesiastical title deciding he needs to “protect the church” from someone who is trying to be faithful is just staggering. Sounds like a wannabe petty dictator with delusions of self-importance.
I believe there’s a lot of that in the church, especially men who have little power otherwise.
I remember as a missionary (1989), we had a blue card stock one page "planner". We were told it was developed by "church leadership", and if we used it we would be blessed. The irony of these things being developed like any other "product" but being passed off as inspired is sad.
This was eye opening for me as well. Each new program is evaluated in much the same way as any fortune 500 company.
This is awesome. Really. It’s tough to have the incessant commercial breaks.
I understand that. If you listen to the podcast there are no commercial breaks.
Premium subscription is quite reasonable.
That is because temple recommends are about “Loyalty “ not worthiness.
Agreed 'Loyalty' and Dogmatic (All in 100% Compliant). If one doesn't feel the 'all in' of another it doesn't matter if someone is practicing 100% it's still perceived unworthy.
No doubt loyalty trumps all else.
The temple recommend system is totally unbiblical. There is nothing like a prerequisite in the new testament when Jesus meet people in Galilee.
Great show Scott ! I would love to buy you lunch !
Lunch sounds great. I don't live in the bubble, but when I make it out that way next, I'll be sure to announce it on facebook in case anyone wants to get together.
Enjoy this format with honest openess. I'm presuming that this employment and many others are financed by tithing donations, but it would be interesting to have heard that been confirmed in the discussion.
fascinating!
I'm just very surprised that he was able to be on a faith crisis while working at HQ and he was not noticed.
The church has their own 'bull dogs' and sniffers able to detect people throwing off blocked vibes or vibes not aligned to the 'procedural attitude' atmosphere.
These individuals are empaths raised under the church. If they are noticed by the church they are trained in a few techniques to offset the individual to sift for defectors or to identify weakness/a sort of inferiority to work in those places.
It's gets hairier than that... those individuals collect and collaborate to flush out defectors and have very little personal/moral boundaries themselves to go after individuals.
And others are influenced to reassign 'the weak' to be re-educated or to re-affirm their energy/career to become a follower to another following under the organization.
Other programs, one must be qualified to their Leader until they speak the right words, have the 'right' attitude, and are submissive enough to be counted as righteous.
Several businesses in UT county, SLC are still structured like this, taking a page from church, Young Living, DoTerra, also a lot of non MLM businesses - call centers, offices etc looking for praise to be mostly LDS composed or LDS endorsed.. Most often these corrupt businesses police their own, 'Thought Police' and tie their own disciplinary measures back to your membership or pressure your membership to be affected by their influence. Usually they find the details on your Home Stake/ward through coercing the obedience, righteousness, or holiness from their own employees believing in all these aspects and then baiting appease/triggers through those as influencing a warped belief of having the right to work there or 'being qualified to work'. (When the business is even Non LDS)
All personal information one shares in the work place is 'discovered' or coerced by whoever is ringleading the control over the individual.
Other power plays at work can emerge if they discover one is infracting on some practices of the faith, ie skipped church one week. These bias businesses exercise their own business like church discipline or they can even bar/withhold you to promotion or raises off of their own prejudice to LDS practices infringed than anything business related and their sector of business/industry has nothing to do with HQ/LDS church business.
If one desires a low drama environment in UT County... try to aim for a business that organized Out of State.
In-State you'll find most businesses with strong LDS intention/influence will mess with your benefits, Off time, Vacation, Leave, 401k on the basis of their own believed self-righteousness or 'worthiness program' they believe in internally.
💘
I could be a prophet also, if I had a full corporation under me. I would think I was having divine information/intervention.🤔🤫
Perhaps my journalist background helos me to truly consider the appropriate use of word meanings that any 12 yr. old can appreciate.
The use of the word FAITH has absolutely nothing to do with the LDS Church.
One can only have faith in God and Jesus Christ. Any voiced commentary about the church or its leaders have been false doctrine....
When Joseph restored the GOSPEL... there was no CHURCH. The two are not one.
Saying "the church is true, is NOT EQUIVALENT WITH SAYING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST IS TRUE!