I created time stamps for your rules so it’s easier for the viewer to watch: 1:53 STEP 1: Stop. Finish What You’ve Started & Re-Evaluate the Rest 3:18 STEP 2: Rewatch and Lear 4:23 STEP 3: Go Back to Formula 6:08 STEP 4: Nothing is Safe and No Idea is Off Limits 7:36 STEP 5: Make a Creative Plan, Not a Marketing Plan 8:56 STEP 6: Give the Avengers a Break 10:19 STEP 7: Rebuild with Fantastic Four, X-Men, & Spider-Man 11:58 STEP 8: If You’re Going to Multiverse, Then Multiverse 13:32 STEP 9: Budget Wisely. Spend What You Need, Not What You Can 14:54 STEP 10: No More Figuring it Out with Reshoots 17:03 STEP 11: Call Your Shot…Kinda 19:27 STEP 12: No More Than 3 Movies a Year, 3 Shows a Year, and 3 Projects in Production Watched the video and have some strong disagreements, but it was nice to hear another person’s opinion on the state of the MCU. I personally think one of the main problems is it’s taking too long to get an Avengers style movie. People want to see their superheroes interact with other superheroes, not have some pointless side quest like Thor: Love and Thunder. People are growing bored by the time it’s taking to set up these payoffs. It's three years and around 19 MCU projects since Endgame and it still feels like we haven’t gotten anywhere. My rules are similar in some ways and different in others: STEP 1: Cancel all Disney+ projects! (Controversial but necessary) STEP 2: Make an Outline for the Next 10 Years STEP 3: Rebuild with F4, X-Men, & Spider-Man STEP 4: Reign in Budgets STEP 5: Release No More than 3 Movies a Year (Make it an Event!)
"People want to see their superheroes interact with other superheroes, not have some pointless side quest like Thor: Love and Thunder." Disagree, plenty of successful movies didn't involve collabs with other superheroes a la team movies. Black Panther comes to mind. It's best to just come up with a great story and have audiences fall for the characters then go from there.
I don't think canceling Disney+ projects is necessary. It is a great way to do stuff with characters that don't fit into the bigger picture or to tell a nice alternate story. Marvel has a lot of city level heroes, like Luke Cage and Daredevil. And while some, like Spidey, can work in a larger scale, others really don't. So Disney+ is a great place to tell their stories. So, basically, Disney+ is a side project place.
I like the 3 movies / 3 shows limitation, but I would add in one more slot. A single special a year. The special would be an episode length (30-60 minute) one-shot, like "Werewolf By Night". The slot would be to allow for a quick experimental story that doesn't really fit in the overall saga going on, but it allows for an adaptation for some element of Marvel that might be fun to do disconnected from everything else - even though it is in the continuity.
I think 3 shows is a bit too much on this rule if you're also going to make it all essential. People do get burned out with that. Some people don't want to subscribe to marvel just to keep up with a franchise they like to watch in the movie theater.
I'd pare it down to two series and one special. It's just all too much to juggle imo. I think Marvel Studios is smartening up based on their recent decisions and I hope they don't squander the second chance they've just been given. I'm willing, sad as it may be, to accept a subpar Echo/Agatha/Deadpool 3/Captain America 4, as long as everything else that hasn't been shot yet is pre-Endgame quality. Lucasfilm has honestly dealt with their properties much better this decade, despite some misses.
It's amazing to me how often in the entertainment industry the "creatives" who come to work on these projects have clearly never seen any of the stuff that came before as if it is totally irrelevant. I feel like if I landed the biggest gig of my career I might sit down and do my homework, personally.
Problem is institutionalisation can be the death of creativity. There's not understanding the brand/vibe of the project/genre, yes, then there's being so clued up on everything there's no room for creativity and possibility. James Gunn's guardians for example are very different to what the comics were before his films came out. If he was a megafan of the OG comics, would he have hit such a home run with general audiences? You kinda need to be half way between both.
@@SplatterInker you don't necessarily need to know the comics but you sure as shit need to know what came before in the movie universe you are working in because it all connects
The problem, I think, in doing your homework late in the game is that you don't get the sense of what audienced experience during the original releases. The pass of time is a very important element of how these movies are perceive, since they kind of work like a classic TV show does, and producers of those always take into account even the midseason breaks to have a play into their storytelling.
The best thing done by Star Wars in recent years was Andor and apparently the showrunners were not closely familiar with previous Star Wars works. I think you can still do magic without doing your homework but yes you some oversight to check your work to make sure that what you're doing actually makes sense in the existing universe.
I wouldn’t say the problem is the slate or the plan / lack of a plan. If they want to fix their problems, here’s what they really have to do: stop entering production on projects with incomplete scripts, wind down on vis-dev, space things out more for quality control (VFX, script revisions, etc.), and stop rushing things into production just because we need x film/series for x date.
My problem is they all look and feel the same. A lot of these movies don't have a story that needed to be told. They were greenlit because they were on the release schedule and the story seems like an afterthought. It feels like an obligation rather than art. My advice is stop all production that is considered padding. Only release movies that have an A+ script.
@@One.Zero.One101 on the surface I’d agree with you, but I don’t think that that explains the current (seeming) decline in interest. Why? Because what you said had always been true. With only a few exceptions, most of the first three phases looked and felt the same. Thor 2 was obviously made just to fill a release spot, with a severely underwritten story. Same for Ant-Man 2, even if that movie is pretty fun. Hell, most movies from that time entered production without a finished script.
After Infinity War they had plenty of time to explore the snap, impacts of a world that is reduced by 50%. Crime, criminals, new heroes that rose up from the snap. Before going into Endgame. Not too long to not lose the audience but I could see that Hawkeye movie leading that. But that is the past. Great review.
I really wished that would have happened. Like take a pause after the snap, explore that new World with new heroes. Then I wished post Endgame, they would have explore what happens after those returning people come in. Instead of giving them back their jobs and roles, they should have put them in camps. Then there's tension that could be created from that. And some of them start to have powers. That's how you introduce mutants into the MCU.
I would have hated if they had left the snap intact for years while they worked up to Endgame. I think doing endgame when they did was good. But they certainly could have done a lot more projects exploring that time period better in flashback. Oddly, only a few projects even stuck their toe into that interim period.
@timogul Yes, a valid point. I think they could have aligned a few shows on Disney plus to show what the impacts were. Captain Marvel (or the marvels) and Ronin’s story would have been geared around it with cameos with the Avengers. I think two years with good story’s in between would have been great.
I think they could've postponed Endgame's release date a whole year, and add a couple of movies to be released before it, like a Black Widow movie, for instance, with Hawkeye as her team-up. The problem was Spider-man, because even though I think it's never been officially stated, it's obvious that Sony Pictures pushed Marvel Studios to make a Spider-man movie every 2 years as part of their deal, so they would've been forced to make a prequel movie of Spidey between IW and Endgame, which is weird for audiences (even the actual Black Widow movie felt weird because of that). But overall, to be honest, a few movies between those 2 Avengers movie might have made Endgame feel less dramatic during its first third. That movie really played with the feeling of the Avengers being retired aftert the snap, even though they show you working around during a meeting (it's the feeling they give what counts as an audience).
I agree with most of these points except from giving the Avengers a break, I believe that people are missing the Avengers already and we’ve been too long without them, which is partially why the stories feel too disconnected and we only see most characters every 3-4 years now
The issue isn't the lack of the Avengers. It's the lack of a central story and main character(s). Whether that's The Avengers or the X-Men or the F4, it's doesn't super matter, as long as its done as well as the original Avengers were.
@@dbrowdy I agree with that, but also I think the Avengers movies are very effective in setting up a main narrative, especially as many of the established characters don’t fit in to an X-Men or F4 film
@@Cinemagrins they didn’t attempt a new avengers film before Kang Dynasty actually, but I think they should’ve done an Avengers: Secret Invasion or Avengers: Dark Reign
@@shadysif6220 Nah. Andrew Spidey was the most comic accurate Peter and Spidey who didn't get appreciated in his days but people wanted more of him which No way home did. Tobey is respected because of nostalgia and memes.
The idea of starting with a completed script, not using reshoots to repair a film and controlling the budget makes perfect sense, and getting the X-Men and F4 being made is a necessity, and take time getting the scripts right first
Speaking of formula, they should never have deviated from the simple formula of giving the new core Avengers their own movie followed by an Avengers movie to solidify the new Team in the minds of the general audience as I think they misjudged how important that is! Phase 4 could/should've been a 3yr phase from '21 - '23 that culminated in an Avengers: Secret Invasion movie for example. During that time & also during Phase 5, they could've made some real inroads into building out the other teams that are expected to come together for the Phase 6 Secret Wars movie like the Fantastic 4, Young Avengers, Midnight Suns, ThunderBolts etc. 3 movies & 3 shows a year still sounds like a lot so maybe 2 & 2 would be more ideal?! Should be noted that of the 12 lowest ever critically rated MCU projects, 7 of them (58.3%) have been in the last 2yrs! Some of that has to do with critics feeling the fatigue but it's mostly to do with the overall quality of those projects. Almost tripling their output by going from 3 projects a year from '17 - '19 to an unsustainable 8 projects a year from '21 - '23 has clearly had an adverse effect on quality control & diluted the brand. They're right to pull back as much as possible and only release one movie in Deadpool 3 & one live-action show in Echo next year and hopefully they stick to that decision for the long-term benefit of the MCU.
They should have kept the continuity separate or limited to two limited series per year. There’s too much content and it didn’t build to anywhere. It was simply content.
The MCU has been without it’s 2 lead beloved characters. No Iron Man, no Captain America. We also lost Black Panther. Thor is off world acting sillier than ever. While I enjoyed Spider-Man no way home and Guardians of the Galaxy, we have not yet seen who will lead the avengers into Kang dynasty and secret wars. They should have slowed down pumping out movies for a couple of years. Then bring in Dr.Doom, Deadpool, and start the X-Men saga.. a few Spider-Man movies while he’s on college. Teaming up with daredevil fighting Kingpin..then bring EVERYONE together for secret wars…
_"Some of that has to do with critics feeling that but fatigue but it's mostly to do with the quality of those projects."_ Bro you need all the credit for this line alone. People felt "fatigue" during Phase 2, the first time this idea popped up.
When I watch this video, the word "edification" comes to mind. Through this video, I get the sense that you are encouraging everyone at Marvel to do these things with the hope that the MCU can become truly great again like it was a few years ago. You're not demeaning or sarcastic in any way, but rather kindly and enthusiastically convincing them that they already have everything they need to do this. It's even encouraging for me as a viewer watching this, and it reminded me that I miss the old Marvel. With the exception of rival film studios and the people who have never liked Marvel, it's in the best interest of everyone for these films to capture that magic that magic again. I honestly wish more RUclips content was like this.
Agreed. So many RUclipsrs just complain and never give constructive feedback. Just want the outrage clicks from angry fans. Dan is quickly becoming my favorite movie critic.
If you don't have a plan, then you can't build anything. The first few phases of the MCU weren't perfect but they were building towards something. After Endgame, there should have been zero large scale events. The largest should have been on a Spiderman: No Way Home level. Then build towards the next major threat. Don't introduce your next major villain in a TV show and then have a version of him lose to ants.
They didn't even have a plan back then. They actually legitimately weren't even thinking of doing Infinity Gauntlet as the first arc until Joss Whedon suggested putting Thanos in lthe finished film like months before the first Avengers released. If anything this is like the first actual saga where Marvel had an endgoal in mind from the very beginning. A lot of the people back then didn't even believe they'd get to Avengers even though they wanted to. They also did not anticipate actually getting Spider-Man back and almost had most of their plans undercut by people like Ike Perlmutter, which almost resulted in feige quitting the studio entirely
@@icedcapplord710 I think Feige is suffering from Lucas, Feloni, Mitch hurwitz & Palladino (showrunner of Gilmore girls) syndrome where they just bitched & moaned about not having freedom and being limited by level-minded collaborators who had the guts to tell them no to a bad idea or even story. However once those people were gone they let their full power unleash and the more of their flaws fans & audiences began to notice and the things they made once thought to be flawless began to show more crack in them that were always there but we chose to ignore.
The last point is the one I disagree with Dan about. They should definitely not try to make every movie essential. That works for hardcore fans or people like him who watch everything anyway, but a lot of the audience already feels like they need to do homework to watch a movie. They should do the opposite and follow Stan Lee's statement "Every comic is somebody's first comic". Every movie should be able to stand on its own. There might be a few hints to the content of the next team-up movie but they shouldn't be essential. Many people haven't watched The Marvels because they haven't watched WandaVision, Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel. It's not helpful if somebody wants to get into watching Marvel movies to tell them before you go to the cinema to watch this movie you first need to do your homework. And they should make different movies. Some could be dark and gritty and some could be fun and cute. But every movie should be able to stand on its own.
True but what's left of them? Iron man dead, Black Widow dead, Cap America in the past, Hulk chilling on his island, Thor dcking around in space. Hawkeye retired. Vision gone, Black Panther dead. Wanda locked somewhere I don't even know.. We only got 2nd hand substitutes like Hawkeye kid, Ant-man kid, ugh.. she-hulk, Irona Man knockoff, female black panther and okay Spider-man if Sony lends him back to Marvel for a movie. But yeah I hear people say that's peeerfect for Young Avengers!! Dude I don't care about some kids running around. Spider-man I can accept but the rest are mostly Mary Sue's that can't even wipe their own asses..
@@bretsheeley4034 Yes, that's the one I disagree with. A big part of the post Endgame MCU problem is next to no information about the Avengers, and no understanding of what role they play or who's even on the active team.
@@user-ul8xu8sk5i War Machine can't even walk.. Falcon should go into politics. Bucky doesn't care about Avengers. Strange either. White Vision isn't on any team. Ant-Man and Wasp can't even carry their own films. Valkyrie? Ehh.. What? Never have her in any of these movies please.
Just 2 to 1 movie a year would do. No TV shows because clearly fans don't want or mind those. Special presentations would do for the lesser characters. The MCU is oversaturated
Two movies, 1 show, 1 special. Maybe after a couple of years, if the audience responds it could get bumped up to two movies, 2 shows - but at least one has to be a new season of a previous successful show - and a special. I've actually really liked the specials, and I think they are a great way for Marvel to do some of that lower level worldbuilding work without the overwhelming "homework" effect.
@@StarryEyed0590thats too many. It should be 2 movies max and a show maybe if they can tell a good story. Anything more than that should have nothing to do with the movies. Nothing. There are too many characters too many storylines and most of it is really not that well liked anymore by anyone but marvel heads.
Everything doesn't need to be connected. From TV, Movies, and even animated shows. The What If is still MCU driven. If someone has an idea for a Wolverine movie set 100 million years ago, it doesn't have to be tied to anything. DC animated side for decades were doing their own thing and it was some of best content out. Like the revival of Xmen animated show, it doesn't have to tie with the MCU let them tell their own story without worry about some grander plan.
The best DC animated stuff was, in fact, all connected. And lead up to the Justice League. There's a lot of similarities with how the MCU built up, actually. Since the DCAU ended things have been quite scattershot for DC animation: most have been pretty boring to straight up bad, but there are some really high high points. Like the MCU but recently.
@@SimonBuchanNz Yeah but the DCAU was its own thing, not connected to movies or live action. And most shows came after one concluded and were not coming out at the same time. And 2, 20 min weekly, animated shows why easier to consume, on standard broadcast. Then 3 full movies, 3 full tv shows a year, competing with so many other movies and high quality shows.
I remember when we were all excited about Evan Peters in WandaVision. The beginning of the downfall was turning that into a joke rather than following through. No idea why they thought it was a good idea to do that, but it really disappointed us.
There is one last rule I would consider adding and that is getting people who actually know and respect the characters in question and not having some underhanded agenda. It's fine to have a character deviate from what they were in the beginning to develop them or have a fun little one off, but there needs to be a level of cohesion and respect given to the characters to be developed to be heroes that viewers want to see. We want to see cool complex heroes face the challenges laid out as opposed to most of the recent heroes who are a bunch of one note, underdeveloped tropes. If a character is good, no matter who it is, people will gravitate towards it. It's just a matter of getting people who want to make characters people on the whole want to see as opposed to making a character that only the few wants to see.
I love all the ideas Dan, but what I would change is only release 2 projects a year like marvel did in the beginning. 1 movie, and 1 show or two movies or 2 shows. Also not every character needs to be the comic relief, it's ok to have a humor full side to a character but when everyone tries to be the comic relief then they wound up being the same but with a different gender, species.also, get directors that care or directors who have a knowledge of a character or take the time to understand the character they are directing for.
Doesn't matter. You're missing the core of the problem. If those 2 projects are more of the same agenda-driven trash, the problem will continue. How many projects does Law & Order have again?, And it just won't die, because they produce quality. Marvel could release 8 projects a year. If they are all stellar, then they are all stellar. A year is a long time. 15 seasons of Supernatural and people still looking for more. We see the same actors in a bunch of movies every year and no one gets tired of them (unless it's Adam Sandler because his movies suck). Christmas happens every year. Same decorations. Same songs. Same gift wrapping. Same characters. No one gets tired. Winning cures everything. It's as simple as that.
@@trueLuminus Just my .02. Slight difference is your comparing tv shows to a multi level story line. It's easier to keep an eye on the ball when it's all under the same TV umbrella. Keep in mind what the MCU is, has never been done before in the history of entertainment.
@@_CoachW The MCU had a system of checks and balances that they got rid of right when Captain Marvel arrived. That's when everything started falling apart. Star Trek is TV and they are failing, miserably, at keeping an eye on the ball. The only difference between TV and movies is the budget.
We probably all remember the 'One-Shots' Marvel used to make. I think they were done for the Love of it. Then they stopped. I think that was the beginning of the Rot!
One small issue with your point six at 9:00 - If you work with the individual characters, there will be a (sadly) very vocal group that says "If the Fantastic Four are fighting Galactus, where were the Avengers??" Or even smaller-scale, "If Daredevil is battling Kingpin, why isn't Spider-Man helping??" Establishing the world full of superpowered folks has led to a LOT of criticism that they're not all there helping each other all the time. A a comic fan from the late 80s/early 90s, I am quite used to individual books with stories that are separate from the team books or the epic crossovers. But to the broader audience, it just gets people complaining about stuff. But people are going to complain, no matter what.
This is honestly why I think animations are the best way to do film adaptations of comics. It can get very expensive very fast to have all of these big name actors appear together often. That can even get expensive with animations, but at least it can be cheaper but still lead to epic stories.
I’m one of the people who complain about this. It makes no sense. Which is why I don’t want any of them to be in same movie. Avengers, X-men, Fantastic 4, etc… all separate movies no mixing.
I definitely feel what you’re saying, I think they really need to fine-tune the balance between the MCU’s signature style and the tone of whatever story they’re trying to tell in a movie or show. I enjoyed The Marvels for what it was but the lack of depth to subplots bothered me. Why didn’t we get to explore more of Kamala’s turmoil over Carol not being the hero she had built her up to be? And how she doesn’t always “fix it?” There was so much potential for these characters to grow but in the end it all feels implied.
I enjoyed the lack of depth to subplots. I' not saying this to be contrarian, but because I think seriousness would have hurt the movie. It wanted to be just action, slapstick, humour and fun and that's what it was. It would have become a seriously f-ed up drama if Kamala would have reflected on how many Kree died because of her and if it would have delved into the crisis on Hala and all the killing that Carol does. I do want serious subplots in a Daredevil movie or show, but The Marvels was just switch off your brain and enjoy the ride. And it was good at being that. I think it's time they move away from a signature style and make movies and shows that fit the characters. And they definitely shouldn't make everything essential. People already hate doing homework. If you like Punisher then there's a big chance you don't like Ms Marvel and if The Marvels is your favourite movie of all time then chances are high that you're not allowed to watch Deadool in a cinema. The rule should be "Keep in mind that every Marvel movie is somebody's first Marvel movie and they need to be able to enjoy it".
I would fire Kevin Feige and replace him with the Russo Brothers to head Marvel Studios. I would require that Jon Favreau approve any film or show involving Iron Man. I would require that Kenneth Branagh approve any film or show involving Thor. I would have Jon Favreau take over Star Wars as well. That would all be a good start.
@@SimonBuchanNz They seem to do well with Marvel properties. Avengers: End Game. Avengers: Infinity War. Captain America: Winter Soldier. Captain America: Civil War
I would add that if you are bringing in new blood to handle an established character, they MUST have an understanding and have seen what came before marvels characterization between projects is all over the place and very messy. It lessens what came before because suddenly the character arc you invested in is redone. There needs to be familiarity with the freaking character bibles.
💯 Character Bibles should be created and shared among all of the current and future writers/directors/producers at Marvel. That's is one of my worst pet peeves when it came to the MCU. As this was what ultimately ruin Thor's, Loki's, Wanda's, and several other characters for me, since there were rumors that writers/directors weren't willing to watch the previous MCU projects before writing for them.
@@amorra6024 EXACTLY. It insulting to the audience that we have a better grasp on the characters than writers and directors and producers. Its also why I believe some of the actors are now distancing themselves and may not come back. Its a massive disservice to the work they did and what was created before to constantly retread the same paths or completely burn everything down for a cheap Easter egg/what comes next tease.
@@queenie_bee Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I would add one cavate to that rule; if the writer is unwilling to put in the work to actually learn and understand this character and this side of the universe? They should be fired, no qustions asked.
It made me SO MAD when the director of MoM said he never saw Wandavision. So you're playing with Wanda without knowing what she did before, just because you can & want to?!
@@ItsKimOlson to be fair wandavision was originally supposed to come out AFTER his film right? He wasn't contracted to do a film which had to tie into a TV show, they threw that onto him last min. Honestly that one is on Feige and the Mouse.
you're the best when it comes to movies, dan, and this just proves it once again. super refreshing listening to your opinions. also i 100% agree with everything you said in this video.
I think his run of Marvel would fail because he demands to make everything essential. That can only lead to diminishing returns and very same-y movies. People already complain that they have to do homework to watch Marvel movies. If you like Punisher then there's a big chance you don't like Ms Marvel and if The Marvels is your favourite movie of all time then chances are high that you're not allowed to watch Deadool in a cinema. The rule should be "Keep in mind that every Marvel movie is somebody's first Marvel movie and they need to be able to enjoy it".
For step 1 I think that's currently being done with 2024 having...little to nothing. I honestly feel that covid is the biggest issue for how hard it's been to have connections for these characters. But yeah I think step one is already happening
Congrats on the nuptials. As of today, approximately 88 million worldwide box office for the Marvels. I believe most of what you suggested is already being done, at least with Iger being reinstated and Feige getting back his powers (get it? superhero pun. ha!). The re-watching of the MCU as a whole by writers, exes, etc...maybe not something they would do but I am speaking as not a head of a studio, studio exec etc so take with grain of salt. Thanks for vid.
The way I see it, MCU is in the franchise business, not the studio business. And that's the problem. Look at The Marvels. Is that a Captain Marvel movie/sequel or an MCU movie? The brand is good when you get hit after hit. But the fatality gets mutiplied as the misses pile up. If I run Marvel, I'd keep the movies separate. Maybe hold back the interconnectivity until the crossover is called for. That allows for more creativity and individuality of each movies, and if one subfranchise fail, the rest of the franchise don't have to be put into question.
My most basic basic running mentality would be to structure the writing and development of each film and TV show like a TV show series. With two showrunners at the top, one in charge of film one in charge of television but who hold the whole narrative and structure together. You then allow Independence within the confines of that larger narrative, and then expertly follow each and every part of it
Spider-Man should be the lead MCU character. Especially with the fact that he's the most popular Marvel character. Just like in DC, Batman and Superman should be at the center of that universe.
Excellent presentation, Dan. Here's hoping that at least a couple of people in Disney's C-Suite are thinking the way you are. As "a Marvel zombie from way back", it hurts to see them stumbling so badly. Multiverse can be a great sandbox to play in (the "What If...?" comics have yielded some great stories), but after all the cosmic shenanigans of The Infinity Saga, it feels like trying to go bigger was also a mistake. The rumor that Secret Invasion was going to be the next saga would have been a better idea: here is a planet-side (relatively local) consequence of reaching out into the universe. What would that do to the heroes and the general population of Earth? Who can you trust? How do aliens mix with humans? Putting some limits on things help give stories good shape
Great job Dan! I think the disconnect between Loki Season 2 and the Marvels, and the need for quality control, is the ultimate "nullifier" on what needs to be done! Enjoy your honeymoon, wherever that is! (Hopefully a beach with drinks with little umbrellas) :)
I think part of the problem is the creators - directors, producers, writers - of new things are ignoring what happened to characters in past projects. They're just picking up toys in the sandbox and doing whatever, instead of keeping continuity. Hello, Wanda in MoM. She went through a journey in Wandavision, that was just ignored in MoM. They need showbooks & bibles, one person to proctect each character, instead of retroacting whatever you want for the next story. They're just giving $$$ to directors and letting them run wild instead of keeping the stories tight, like a continuing series. These projects can't stand on their own when they involve previously introduced characters.
I don't hate the shared universe stuff, but I'm so excited for the new Blade and if, like, Ant-man or someone turns up in it I'll have such a bad moment
Was having this conversation with friends recently and we came to the conclusion that the MCU feels scattered/stagnate right now because they lost their 2 Main Characters (Iron Man & Cap) and have yet to really replace them. If you remove both the Protagonist & Deuteragonist at the same time from any story it's gonna look like what the MCU looks like right now. Things won't be back on track until we get MC-level characters like Reed Richards, Doom, Charles Xavier, Blue Marvel, etc. in the mix to act as the center gravity for the whole thing.
I agree and disagree with this. I agree that it’s nice to have a character to follow through a phase. However, I don’t want marvel to rely on that. Like Star Wars, marvel is a sandbox world. As in you can make stories that are connected or not connected to a large narrative. For example, I don’t need to see daredevil or Punisher fight Kang. Some characters should be part of a larger narrative while others should have their own self contain stories.
@@mizushogun I fully agree. I've seen people talk about how they have no interest in Andor because it doesn't feature a Skywalker or jedi, and that they didn't watch Mandalorian before Luke appeared... and that's just friggin sad. I fully side w/ Rich Evans and RLM when they point out that Star Wars is creatively bankrupt. You have a WHOLE FRIGGIN GALAXY and you are unable to tell any story other than the same one over and over and over? MCU is... similar. It's a sandbox. It shouldn't have to rely on anchors. To be fair, @yeticoolbrother does say "and have yet to really replace them" which is a very good point to include. I'm fine with using a consistent character/story-perspective... but it's when they become anchors that *PREVENT* the universe from growing and expanding (ala star wars) that it becomes a problem.
@@mizushogun I think we actually agree more than disagree. You're right in that thos types if stories are important too, all I'm saying is that a story needs a Main Character to be a story lol. If chose instead to not connect things together in to an overarching story then it's not a Cinematic Universe at that point you're just making movies. Which is also fine but that's a different thing.
The multiverse concept is an almost unwieldy plot tool when used at the universal story ARC level. Using it comes at great cost in terms of audience connection to characters. However, the multiverse can work when it is used to delve deeper into one underlying character, such as was done with Spiderman. That story worked because it ultimately proved that no matter what details you change about Peter Parker from one universe to the next, he has a core set of character traits that are consistent. It allowed the character(s) to really grow as they considered their past actions and asked the question, "What if I handled that differently?" By contrast, if the multiverse plot device applies to all characters across all places and all times, it just becomes an unmanageable, tangled web of stories that no one can comprehend, much less care about. And, it can also become a crutch to support lazy writing. So, the multiverse concept can be used occasionally in limited scope, but it should not the basis you build your story world around.
additional point about the re-shoots, don't rewrite the script because of world events and don't plan too far ahead. Eg. most of this actually started with covid which altered several parts of Falcon and the Winter Soldier which also reordered the release schedule. More recently they changed Secret Invasion because of the Russian invasion.
Agree that they need to focus on _"who these characters are"_ ... But with that goes: Don't make them snarky, annoying and disrespectful to the heroes that came before. And let them have CHARACTER ARCS, for the love of all that is cinema. Phases 4 and 5 have seen many new characters, and sure, we got to know "who they were". They just weren't very relatable or likeable.
Though I understand your plight with this I will say that this is incredibly subjective. One character can be seen as a “relatable” or “unlikable” to a person, but others might not feel the same. Again it’s not that I disagree with you, I’m just pointing out how that’s not an objective statement.
I would settle for 'don't make every character a snarky annoying always cool wiseass' and actually treat us as the audience as adults who can take a serious theme or subject without instantly needing a quip to alleviate the pressure 🙄🙄
@DarkHarlequin unfortunately that is the legacy of GotG and audiences. Look at DC tried a more serious take and it collapsed due to audience apathy. The lesson the audience has taught Hollywood is that superheroes need to be quippy and jokey all the time. A shame, but it will take a long time for them to unlearn that lesson
I think a large amount of what you presented here is exactly what should be done. I’m continually disappointed by the rush to production. I’d rather wait longer for a film to have a script that’s ready to shoot than one that comes out and feels disjointed. Yes, sometimes reshoots save movies, but only if there is a pivot to a coherent story. I’d also love them to stop pulling their punches. It feels like some reshoots are to “fix” story elements they think audiences are not ready for or they are afraid won’t work. Why even green light that script then? It comes off as disjointed and weak when you erase the entire motivation for the flag smashers because you’re afraid of a pandemic plot in the midst of covid, which you could not have predicted. Either release it with conviction, or halt production and reshoot it with conviction. Don’t just erase to avoid. You have to replace it with something else that will work.
Fantastic 4 is a really hard project, as ultimately they have a natural, starting villain in Doom, and nobody has yet to figure out how to make Doom work in a movie.
I'd add on no. 2, they should watch more movies than just superhero genres. If you ask me, MCU's been so full of itself and within its own bubble. It acknowledges the other contents just to top it, but in scale, not in quality or to maintain continuity. Look at James Gunn. He clearly watched a lot of things so his movies do not fall exclusively into superhero genres. That keeps it fresh.
From a comic reader’s perspective Id argue they don’t pay attention to the source material enough. Almost every story they have adapted is inferior to the original stories. They have dumbed it down for the masses. Secret Invasion is a perfect example. The comic version was an intricate and layered story. They dumbed it down so much it’s unrecognizable, leaving out ALL of what made the story a worthy read.
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdomyeah you would have liked it better if it was like the comics lol trust me movie/ television writers look down on comics then make trash like secret invasion
I disagree with giving the Avengers a break. I think the fact that there's been no Avengers and we don't even know who is in the team right now has been one of the issues with Phases 4/5. If we look back at what worked about Phases 1-3, I think one of the positives has to be that audiences always knew - right from the Iron Man 1 post credits - the films were building towards the next Avengers film. We don't have that any more
This is fantastic, Dan! I wish that you did run the MCU. I’ve always ‘made mine Marvel’, but lately I’ve been suffering from a huge case of superhero and multiverse fatigue.
@@Michael-mt6yb Fair enough - but I feel like physical comics afforded the reader far more choice. I had favourite titles and characters that I faithfully purchased or read. There were sometimes crossovers, new characters, or storylines that piqued my interest, that led me to buy or borrow titles that weren’t usually on my list. A few times, I took a short hiatus, but I would ultimately miss them and go back (like Dan mentions at 9:27). I never once thought, “I’m so sick of this”, which is how I am starting to feel. I don’t think that it just applies to superheroes, but anything that we get too much of at once. I just never anticipated a day when I would feel that way about something that I truly love.
@@user-ul8xu8sk5i got you on that. I think the effort of leaving home to sit watch something that isn’t for sure to be good and is expensive is no longer appealing. It sucks because going to the movies was an easy win
It’s hard to even remember a world where Marvel, let alone Disney only released 1 or 2 projects in a year, and I definitely miss that era a bit. There might not have been as much content for fans as there is now, but those few movies that did get released felt deliberate and were a more memorable experience to watch and discuss with other fans. Too much of a good thing has been ruining everyone’s appetite for superhero films, Star Wars projects and even Disney films as a whole.
In my opinion, Phase 4 started strong thematically with that "sins of our fathers" idea. Spider-Man, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Doctor Strange all had aspects of this. Loki and Hawkeye were dealing with their own shortcomings. I thought that Kang was going to be the consequence of what The Avengers did to stop Thanos since they messed with time but I'm not even sure Marvel knows what they're doing with him.
they should have wrapped up Guardians and done a total pivot to street level heroes. especially in the wake of Chadwick's passing. cheaper movies, smaller stakes, and a refocus on character instead of plot - which was always their bread & butter
I've said it before but this is the best video to say it again. It's a simple goal. If I was a creative exec at Marvel I would have a whiteboard that says in big block letters "GO OUTSIDE!" I have lost interest in MCU films for all the same reasons everyone else has, but I also have gotten tired of watching movies that look entirely shot on big sets or digital worlds. I want to feel like these characters are actually going around the world. I want to see real landscapes. That is what makes Lord of the Rings timeless. They actually went to and filmed at beautiful other-worldly locations. Marry that with some fake environments, not just the fake environments the whole time.
Does no one realize how corporate decisions are made? So many green lights required. Lots of money being thrown around so its very difficult to translate what one person wants into what a company will feel comfortable doing. No discredit to him. Its just what happens when corporations are in charge of IP. Especially not now since Disney knows this stuff makes money whereas when it started they weren't aware of what they had which lead to success.
21:16 I think my main this is agreeing with your FF / X-men idea. I'm not sure I would've used the X-Men as early. But I kind of was thinking maybe making the FF a focus instead of the Avengers. And yes on giving the Avengers a break. I like the limit number you gave. 3 theatrical 3 in production 3 TV shows At least as a maximum
I would commit to a trilogy of movies that have started. Basically Shang Chi and Eternals deserve a fully rounded trilogy. They have already seeded an IP, franchises take time to grow. You don't get a billion fresh out the gate.
@@eon001 The thing is, there's no demand for it. No one cared for the Eternals characters like they cared for Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, GotG, and Thor.
@@eon001 Their comic runs were way mode successful than Captain Marvel's and anyone else less popular than her. They were B tier. GotG's comic run was actually doing really well in 2009. Eternals never had a successful comic run and they have one movie that failed critically. It would only be downhill from there. They had their chance.
Just another incredibly naive take on how to fix an entire Studio… Basically saying you would STOP, means millions of dollars of loss. Right there, you created a deficit and would be immediately removed from your role. Marvel is likely aware of this downturn and embracing it. As a Post endgame fanbase would undoubtedly be savage and impossible to satiate. In She Hulk, the script writers literally anticipated fan backlash and wrote it into the show. They are not slaves to the fan base because if they were, all we would get is what you called a “Formula.” It is so hilariously predictable that you would add this to your list because you are assuming making a film has anything to do with a formula. Marvel has even joked that adding Wong to episodes of she hulk would help to move the show along with less vitriol. Marvel is aware they were never going to meet fan expectations after Endgame, and so they are creating content that they know every one will watch regardless of whether they are liked or not. All of this is because Fans are the biggest proponents of the self fulfilling prophecy. Fan expectations before Endgame was that Marvel would never hit the mark again, and so now when the movies start back at the ground level, the Fans cry that they were right. Studios make money on failures and hits alike, that being said I’m amazed at the crude understanding of how studios are run. You don’t stop because content is disliked, you push harder in the direction you have set for the bigger picture. You hit on a the point about Andrew Garfields spider-man movies being terrible and hated. But movies being liked or disliked is furthest from a studios discussion when they are building a universe. What’s more important are the small few who do embrace even the biggest flops. Because MArvel is the best at bringing back the charm to just about any film or character. Fan backlash always comes back around to fan appreciation , all these flops require is time. No Way Home allowed even Garfields Spider-Man to become charming again. Marvel is not creating junk on purpose, but they are simply providing content and hedging their bets on the occasional hit and when the Avengers movies come out they will redefine expectations again. It’s incredibly naive to think creating James Gun or Watts content systematically is even possible. James Gunn is aware of this as well. Disney and Marvel are primarily focused on giving opportunities to a diverse group of Directors to tell their stories how they want to, and accepting their flaws. I would much rather The Marvels as it is, rather than having someone like yourself assume they could do better. Ultimately it’s about the story being told. To assume you could do better is a righteousness I will never understand. Something easily said and bulletpointed for a RUclips video, but you’re not really offering anything to the conversation. What ever the case may be, expectations changed and stories adjust. Marvel has known this since phase one, because even though we had Dark World, it didn’t stop them from making Infinity War. Just because you’re not part of the current conversation, the assumption is that something’s wrong. Have you stopped to think that Marvel knew this before it started the Multiverse Saga? I would love to see you make these pitches to the big boys who actually do the job. They would pat you on the head and tell you how cute your plan is as they push you out the door. Not just this channel, but multiple channels assuming they would do things better are on the face, kidding themselves. Just little boys playing pretend, so in that case I guess, sure buddy… have fun “running Marvel.” Lol
So, better to plough ahead making hundreds of millions of loss rushing things out according to an unsustainable schedule than take millions of loss and give yourself a chance to create billion dollar grosses again? If that's the way "the big boys" think... well, actually, that would explain a lot...
I like everything you suggested. One thing that goes without saying, and that you sort of touched on with the budget section that has bothered me for a couple years is hearing how rushed certain scripts were, or even films shooting without finished scripts. I would make it so the script has to be finished and be good before any preproduction work starts. Doctor Strange 2 infamously had sets built before the script was done. I would also ensure that creatives working on these films actually like these characters and aren't trying to retool things because they think the source material isn't cool. There are too many examples of directors and producers basically shitting on the source material and trying to change it to make it "cool" only to bastardize it. People working with these characters should love them and respect them like Matt Reeves working on the Batman. A last point is that directors shouldn't just be puppets for the studio to make a product that was basically made in pre viz before anyone was even attached. Let the Matt Reeves, Edgar Wrights, and James Gunns of the world come to the table with a vision instead of propping naive directors up to fail by attaching their name to a sloppy rushed mess.
Interesting ideas Dan. I especially enjoy the way you aren’t nasty when you criticise movies. I believe you offer suggestions in a genuine desire to help movie makers do better next time. I think as part of the evaluation of what went well/ what went wrong producers and directors of all movies or series ( like The Marvels) which haven’t performed to expectations should have to watch an hour of u tube movie and pop culture critics/ commentators talking about their film or series. They may learn what the punters want and, more importantly, are willing to pay for.
Too many tv shows, it feels like “homework” now. If you don’t watch 6 hours of the new show, you’re not going to understand what’s happening in the movies! Just a way to strong arm you into a Disney+ subscription
As someone who sent a “six hours in 24 minutes” video of Ms. Marvel to a friend before we saw The Marvels - agree. I love the TV shows, but it’s too much to catch up on once you fall behind.
of all the "fixing marvel" videos ive watched this is by far the most sensible, mature and exciting, id really love to see a follow up video on this given the loki finale and maybe going more in depht on future proyects, the big anchor tipe movies like xmen, faantastic four and all the kang/secret wars situation that also seems to be falling apart because of jonnathan majors. really love your content, been a fan since the screen junkies days and just found your channel, awesome stuff!
Not that I haven’t loved a lot of what we’ve gotten, but I’d love to see you do one for if you ran the Star Trek division at Paramount. Like getting more movies, more seasons in a show, etc.
One thing I would add on to the multiverse idea is... diversify your creative teams. Not everything has to tie into the main MCU, and creatively, maybe not have every creative team should report to the Marvel Studios producers/executives like Kevin Feige. Ie, pre-Phase 4 and pre-Fox merger, Marvel Studios wasn't the only studio creating content: Fox was making their own films for better or worse, ABC and FX were making their own wide variety of programming independent of Marvel Studios, each targeted towards different demographics (Netflix, Hulu, Freeform, ABC, FX, etc), and of course Sony is still making Spider-Verse content. Marvel Games around the mid-to-late 2010s was also aggressively approaching developers and publishers and licensing out properties. Some weren't great (Crystal Dynamics's Avengers, Capcom's Marvel v Capcom Infinite), some were okay (Telltale's GotG, Tecmo Koei's Ultimate Alliance 3), and some were amazing (Insomniac's Spider-Man, Eidos Montreal's GotG, 2K's Midnight Suns). But what really stood out was just the sheer variety; none of the games felt samey (unless you count sequels). They don't have to go to the same extreme as licensing out to external studios, but maybe explore and delegate internally within Disney. ABC probably could've made a much better version of She-Hulk as a law procedural, whereas Disney Channel or Freeform probably could have better handled and not rushed Ms. Marvel (Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is pretty good).
This is why you don’t run Marvel, Dan. The trick is to create a movie with no plot and its only purpose is to serve the big picture then throw 250 million dollars at it. 😂
Agree with most of it. The essential, though, scaling back and prioritize story telling over marketing, it would be hard to implement even for Dan Feige. Too many shareholders screaming for more from the board. Big Business right now has no sense of the long term. They ditched growth for higher and higher increases in quarter economic growth relative to the same quarter of the last year, and so on. That's antithetical with a well thought-out plan
I really need a Dazzler movie now you mention it. Imagine a Wonder Woman 1984 but done with the proper amount of cheese - instead of just being cheesy.
Dan, I think it is worth analyzing a series that was as underrated as its comic, "Doom Patrol," which had a great development very attached to its version of the comic and with a very good closing in its last season. Something redeemable from the DCU
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯 I'd also change the test screening audience. Test screenings never seem to have positive reviews, so while I appreciate screenings raise the issue of leaks, I'm not sure using executives and their families as basis for script changes and reshoots is the way forward.
agree with all and hard agree with the multiverse idea. marvel studios should absolutely make movies/shows focusing on other universes characters. it is literally in the name: multiverse saga - it is how they should do it. perhaps put a different counsel of Kang member in those universes pulling strings, leading to Kang dynasty. and then naturally bring the multiversal characters together to secret wars. this makes way too much sense and it is weird that the smart ppl at marvel studios didn't think of it.
Excellent suggestions, Dan. I would add that Marvel needs to hire more experienced, proven directors. Alfonso Cuaron made easily the best Harry Potter movie along with terrific films like Gravity and Children of Men, not to mention Y Tu Mama Tambien, one of the best movies of this century. Imagine what Cuaron could do helming the X-Men or the Fantastic Four franchise. Bong Joon-Ho has made monster and sci-fi movies in The Host and Snowpiercer along with masterpieces like Memories of Murder and Parasite. Hire him. David Lynch once adapted Dune. Imagine Lynch adapting the Frank Miller-Bill Sienkiewicz Elektra: Assassin mini-series from the 1980s or his take on Legion. How about Joel Coen or Steve McQueen provided you could match them with the right project? Heck, turn Martin Scorsese around and have him direct a gritty Daredevil. Sure, most of them would require final cut, but these folks all have vision and style. It's big risk, big reward.
I think the biggest problem is the CEO of Disney, Bob Iger. He took a lot of Kevin Feige’s creative control away and added a lot of middle men between himself and head of Studios. These middlemen are telling Feige what they want made and has added to his plate. Plus, Bob Iger gave the directive to add all those Marvel Disney+ plus shoes because he wanted to add content quickly. I love your ideas, but ultimately, it’s up to Iger to change things back and stop meddling.
![Kodak Black - Sharp Vibes [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oEV0OoLJeIs/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't understand how the scripts are not required to be impeccable before you invest 300 million in them... Hollywood is a weird place
impeccable is subjective.
@@focused313exactly
@@focused313True, but some scripts are objectively peccable being pushed into production
Cuz they know dumb fans will watch 30 sec cameos
"Cause we need money now, fast, QUICK"
I created time stamps for your rules so it’s easier for the viewer to watch:
1:53 STEP 1: Stop. Finish What You’ve Started & Re-Evaluate the Rest
3:18 STEP 2: Rewatch and Lear
4:23 STEP 3: Go Back to Formula
6:08 STEP 4: Nothing is Safe and No Idea is Off Limits
7:36 STEP 5: Make a Creative Plan, Not a Marketing Plan
8:56 STEP 6: Give the Avengers a Break
10:19 STEP 7: Rebuild with Fantastic Four, X-Men, & Spider-Man
11:58 STEP 8: If You’re Going to Multiverse, Then Multiverse
13:32 STEP 9: Budget Wisely. Spend What You Need, Not What You Can
14:54 STEP 10: No More Figuring it Out with Reshoots
17:03 STEP 11: Call Your Shot…Kinda
19:27 STEP 12: No More Than 3 Movies a Year, 3 Shows a Year, and 3 Projects in Production
Watched the video and have some strong disagreements, but it was nice to hear another person’s opinion on the state of the MCU. I personally think one of the main problems is it’s taking too long to get an Avengers style movie.
People want to see their superheroes interact with other superheroes, not have some pointless side quest like Thor: Love and Thunder. People are growing bored by the time it’s taking to set up these payoffs. It's three years and around 19 MCU projects since Endgame and it still feels like we haven’t gotten anywhere.
My rules are similar in some ways and different in others:
STEP 1: Cancel all Disney+ projects! (Controversial but necessary)
STEP 2: Make an Outline for the Next 10 Years
STEP 3: Rebuild with F4, X-Men, & Spider-Man
STEP 4: Reign in Budgets
STEP 5: Release No More than 3 Movies a Year (Make it an Event!)
I would do 2 movies one year then maybe 3 If needed, I think 2 is the magic number,
Since no one has shown gratitude for the time stamps, let me be the first exception.
Thanks for being a class act! Much appreciated.
"People want to see their superheroes interact with other superheroes, not have some pointless side quest like Thor: Love and Thunder." Disagree, plenty of successful movies didn't involve collabs with other superheroes a la team movies. Black Panther comes to mind. It's best to just come up with a great story and have audiences fall for the characters then go from there.
Nice time stamps. Also, agree with your revisions too.
I don't think canceling Disney+ projects is necessary. It is a great way to do stuff with characters that don't fit into the bigger picture or to tell a nice alternate story. Marvel has a lot of city level heroes, like Luke Cage and Daredevil. And while some, like Spidey, can work in a larger scale, others really don't. So Disney+ is a great place to tell their stories.
So, basically, Disney+ is a side project place.
I like the 3 movies / 3 shows limitation, but I would add in one more slot. A single special a year. The special would be an episode length (30-60 minute) one-shot, like "Werewolf By Night". The slot would be to allow for a quick experimental story that doesn't really fit in the overall saga going on, but it allows for an adaptation for some element of Marvel that might be fun to do disconnected from everything else - even though it is in the continuity.
I think 3 shows is a bit too much on this rule if you're also going to make it all essential. People do get burned out with that. Some people don't want to subscribe to marvel just to keep up with a franchise they like to watch in the movie theater.
I'd pare it down to two series and one special. It's just all too much to juggle imo. I think Marvel Studios is smartening up based on their recent decisions and I hope they don't squander the second chance they've just been given. I'm willing, sad as it may be, to accept a subpar Echo/Agatha/Deadpool 3/Captain America 4, as long as everything else that hasn't been shot yet is pre-Endgame quality. Lucasfilm has honestly dealt with their properties much better this decade, despite some misses.
With 'werewolf by night' and 'moon Knight' I wouldn't be surprised if they were setting up a 'midnight suns' film or show.
@@ChrisMeadows1992Not sure if I'll be okay with a mediocre Deadpool 3 film, but I agree with the rest.
Love it, I'd say have the option for a plus one then minus the other. Just to add some flexibility
I hesitated to click on this, but then I remembered how much thought and preparation Dan puts into everything he makes. Excellent - as usual!
@@1kbmahanit is that deep actually
It's amazing to me how often in the entertainment industry the "creatives" who come to work on these projects have clearly never seen any of the stuff that came before as if it is totally irrelevant. I feel like if I landed the biggest gig of my career I might sit down and do my homework, personally.
Problem is institutionalisation can be the death of creativity. There's not understanding the brand/vibe of the project/genre, yes, then there's being so clued up on everything there's no room for creativity and possibility. James Gunn's guardians for example are very different to what the comics were before his films came out. If he was a megafan of the OG comics, would he have hit such a home run with general audiences?
You kinda need to be half way between both.
@@SplatterInker you don't necessarily need to know the comics but you sure as shit need to know what came before in the movie universe you are working in because it all connects
The problem, I think, in doing your homework late in the game is that you don't get the sense of what audienced experience during the original releases. The pass of time is a very important element of how these movies are perceive, since they kind of work like a classic TV show does, and producers of those always take into account even the midseason breaks to have a play into their storytelling.
The best thing done by Star Wars in recent years was Andor and apparently the showrunners were not closely familiar with previous Star Wars works. I think you can still do magic without doing your homework but yes you some oversight to check your work to make sure that what you're doing actually makes sense in the existing universe.
I wouldn’t say the problem is the slate or the plan / lack of a plan. If they want to fix their problems, here’s what they really have to do: stop entering production on projects with incomplete scripts, wind down on vis-dev, space things out more for quality control (VFX, script revisions, etc.), and stop rushing things into production just because we need x film/series for x date.
"stop rushing things into production just because we need x film/series for x date."
So... the problem IS the slate or the plan / lack of a plan?
@@Whawpenshaw no, it’s the pacing. Space things out more if they need more development time.
My problem is they all look and feel the same. A lot of these movies don't have a story that needed to be told. They were greenlit because they were on the release schedule and the story seems like an afterthought. It feels like an obligation rather than art. My advice is stop all production that is considered padding. Only release movies that have an A+ script.
@@One.Zero.One101 on the surface I’d agree with you, but I don’t think that that explains the current (seeming) decline in interest. Why? Because what you said had always been true. With only a few exceptions, most of the first three phases looked and felt the same. Thor 2 was obviously made just to fill a release spot, with a severely underwritten story. Same for Ant-Man 2, even if that movie is pretty fun. Hell, most movies from that time entered production without a finished script.
After Infinity War they had plenty of time to explore the snap, impacts of a world that is reduced by 50%. Crime, criminals, new heroes that rose up from the snap. Before going into Endgame. Not too long to not lose the audience but I could see that Hawkeye movie leading that. But that is the past.
Great review.
Wow, that could have been amazing. They even had a 5 year difference between the two movies.
I really wished that would have happened. Like take a pause after the snap, explore that new World with new heroes. Then I wished post Endgame, they would have explore what happens after those returning people come in. Instead of giving them back their jobs and roles, they should have put them in camps. Then there's tension that could be created from that. And some of them start to have powers. That's how you introduce mutants into the MCU.
I would have hated if they had left the snap intact for years while they worked up to Endgame. I think doing endgame when they did was good. But they certainly could have done a lot more projects exploring that time period better in flashback. Oddly, only a few projects even stuck their toe into that interim period.
@timogul Yes, a valid point. I think they could have aligned a few shows on Disney plus to show what the impacts were. Captain Marvel (or the marvels) and Ronin’s story would have been geared around it with cameos with the Avengers. I think two years with good story’s in between would have been great.
I think they could've postponed Endgame's release date a whole year, and add a couple of movies to be released before it, like a Black Widow movie, for instance, with Hawkeye as her team-up. The problem was Spider-man, because even though I think it's never been officially stated, it's obvious that Sony Pictures pushed Marvel Studios to make a Spider-man movie every 2 years as part of their deal, so they would've been forced to make a prequel movie of Spidey between IW and Endgame, which is weird for audiences (even the actual Black Widow movie felt weird because of that). But overall, to be honest, a few movies between those 2 Avengers movie might have made Endgame feel less dramatic during its first third. That movie really played with the feeling of the Avengers being retired aftert the snap, even though they show you working around during a meeting (it's the feeling they give what counts as an audience).
I agree with most of these points except from giving the Avengers a break, I believe that people are missing the Avengers already and we’ve been too long without them, which is partially why the stories feel too disconnected and we only see most characters every 3-4 years now
The issue isn't the lack of the Avengers. It's the lack of a central story and main character(s). Whether that's The Avengers or the X-Men or the F4, it's doesn't super matter, as long as its done as well as the original Avengers were.
@@dbrowdy I agree with that, but also I think the Avengers movies are very effective in setting up a main narrative, especially as many of the established characters don’t fit in to an X-Men or F4 film
We were supposed to create New Avengers, and we kinda tried but it wasn't written well enough to make people want to care.
@@Cinemagrins they didn’t attempt a new avengers film before Kang Dynasty actually, but I think they should’ve done an Avengers: Secret Invasion or Avengers: Dark Reign
Nope. I'm good. I don't want another Avengers movie. I want an XMen movie. THEN the Avengers can come back with Wolverine baby!
The Andrew Garfield statement is so true. He was not liked in his movie but was the best thing about no way home.
Not even close. He had a funny line or two, and did one thing right. He's an honorable mention at best.
@@shadysif6220he was my and my son’s favorite part of No Way Home. It’s like everyone has their own opinions or something?!?
@@shadysif6220 Nah. Andrew Spidey was the most comic accurate Peter and Spidey who didn't get appreciated in his days but people wanted more of him which No way home did. Tobey is respected because of nostalgia and memes.
@@adityadwivedi6154
Which version and/or which era?
The idea of starting with a completed script, not using reshoots to repair a film and controlling the budget makes perfect sense, and getting the X-Men and F4 being made is a necessity, and take time getting the scripts right first
Speaking of formula, they should never have deviated from the simple formula of giving the new core Avengers their own movie followed by an Avengers movie to solidify the new Team in the minds of the general audience as I think they misjudged how important that is! Phase 4 could/should've been a 3yr phase from '21 - '23 that culminated in an Avengers: Secret Invasion movie for example. During that time & also during Phase 5, they could've made some real inroads into building out the other teams that are expected to come together for the Phase 6 Secret Wars movie like the Fantastic 4, Young Avengers, Midnight Suns, ThunderBolts etc. 3 movies & 3 shows a year still sounds like a lot so maybe 2 & 2 would be more ideal?!
Should be noted that of the 12 lowest ever critically rated MCU projects, 7 of them (58.3%) have been in the last 2yrs! Some of that has to do with critics feeling the fatigue but it's mostly to do with the overall quality of those projects. Almost tripling their output by going from 3 projects a year from '17 - '19 to an unsustainable 8 projects a year from '21 - '23 has clearly had an adverse effect on quality control & diluted the brand. They're right to pull back as much as possible and only release one movie in Deadpool 3 & one live-action show in Echo next year and hopefully they stick to that decision for the long-term benefit of the MCU.
Disney+ has damaged Marvel. Cheapened it imo.
They should have kept the continuity separate or limited to two limited series per year. There’s too much content and it didn’t build to anywhere. It was simply content.
The MCU has been without it’s 2 lead beloved characters. No Iron Man, no Captain America. We also lost Black Panther. Thor is off world acting sillier than ever. While I enjoyed Spider-Man no way home and Guardians of the Galaxy, we have not yet seen who will lead the avengers into Kang dynasty and secret wars. They should have slowed down pumping out movies for a couple of years. Then bring in Dr.Doom, Deadpool, and start the X-Men saga.. a few Spider-Man movies while he’s on college. Teaming up with daredevil fighting Kingpin..then bring EVERYONE together for secret wars…
The reverse worked really well with civil war. Black Panther and Spider-Man were very well introduced in the group movie so that works as well
_"Some of that has to do with critics feeling that but fatigue but it's mostly to do with the quality of those projects."_
Bro you need all the credit for this line alone. People felt "fatigue" during Phase 2, the first time this idea popped up.
congrats on getting married Dan! you deserve all the happiness in the world
Start fresh with Fantastic 4 and X Men (which includes Deadpool). And Blade
I liked their dark series: Werewolf by Night. They could develop a few more one offs like that.
Yes, I hope they do that. They need to realize smaller scale with smaller budgets work too.
really? I thought that was bad. Werewolf itself looked like a monkey
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 agree, effects weren’t perfect but I thought there was potential there
When I watch this video, the word "edification" comes to mind. Through this video, I get the sense that you are encouraging everyone at Marvel to do these things with the hope that the MCU can become truly great again like it was a few years ago. You're not demeaning or sarcastic in any way, but rather kindly and enthusiastically convincing them that they already have everything they need to do this. It's even encouraging for me as a viewer watching this, and it reminded me that I miss the old Marvel. With the exception of rival film studios and the people who have never liked Marvel, it's in the best interest of everyone for these films to capture that magic that magic again. I honestly wish more RUclips content was like this.
Agreed. So many RUclipsrs just complain and never give constructive feedback. Just want the outrage clicks from angry fans. Dan is quickly becoming my favorite movie critic.
@@RangerMcFriendlyhe’s been mine since honest trailer movie fights wayyyyyy back
If you don't have a plan, then you can't build anything. The first few phases of the MCU weren't perfect but they were building towards something. After Endgame, there should have been zero large scale events. The largest should have been on a Spiderman: No Way Home level. Then build towards the next major threat. Don't introduce your next major villain in a TV show and then have a version of him lose to ants.
They never really had a plan till 2015 btw
They didn't even have a plan back then. They actually legitimately weren't even thinking of doing Infinity Gauntlet as the first arc until Joss Whedon suggested putting Thanos in lthe finished film like months before the first Avengers released. If anything this is like the first actual saga where Marvel had an endgoal in mind from the very beginning. A lot of the people back then didn't even believe they'd get to Avengers even though they wanted to. They also did not anticipate actually getting Spider-Man back and almost had most of their plans undercut by people like Ike Perlmutter, which almost resulted in feige quitting the studio entirely
@@icedcapplord710 I think Feige is suffering from Lucas, Feloni, Mitch hurwitz & Palladino (showrunner of Gilmore girls) syndrome where they just bitched & moaned about not having freedom and being limited by level-minded collaborators who had the guts to tell them no to a bad idea or even story. However once those people were gone they let their full power unleash and the more of their flaws fans & audiences began to notice and the things they made once thought to be flawless began to show more crack in them that were always there but we chose to ignore.
They did have a plan, it revolved around audibles. They needed a couple of first downs before even thinking about hitting the end zone.
The last point is the one I disagree with Dan about. They should definitely not try to make every movie essential. That works for hardcore fans or people like him who watch everything anyway, but a lot of the audience already feels like they need to do homework to watch a movie. They should do the opposite and follow Stan Lee's statement "Every comic is somebody's first comic". Every movie should be able to stand on its own. There might be a few hints to the content of the next team-up movie but they shouldn't be essential. Many people haven't watched The Marvels because they haven't watched WandaVision, Captain Marvel and Ms Marvel. It's not helpful if somebody wants to get into watching Marvel movies to tell them before you go to the cinema to watch this movie you first need to do your homework.
And they should make different movies. Some could be dark and gritty and some could be fun and cute. But every movie should be able to stand on its own.
I kind of miss the avengers TBH. They haven’t done a movie since End Game and it’s making the MCU feel disconnected
Yeah. I don't get the "Give the Avengers a break" suggestion. They have been on break for almost 5 years now.
True but what's left of them? Iron man dead, Black Widow dead, Cap America in the past, Hulk chilling on his island, Thor dcking around in space. Hawkeye retired. Vision gone, Black Panther dead. Wanda locked somewhere I don't even know.. We only got 2nd hand substitutes like Hawkeye kid, Ant-man kid, ugh.. she-hulk, Irona Man knockoff, female black panther and okay Spider-man if Sony lends him back to Marvel for a movie.
But yeah I hear people say that's peeerfect for Young Avengers!! Dude I don't care about some kids running around. Spider-man I can accept but the rest are mostly Mary Sue's that can't even wipe their own asses..
@@bretsheeley4034 Yes, that's the one I disagree with. A big part of the post Endgame MCU problem is next to no information about the Avengers, and no understanding of what role they play or who's even on the active team.
@@user-ul8xu8sk5i War Machine can't even walk.. Falcon should go into politics. Bucky doesn't care about Avengers. Strange either. White Vision isn't on any team. Ant-Man and Wasp can't even carry their own films. Valkyrie? Ehh.. What? Never have her in any of these movies please.
I agree with 99% expect I would reduce how many films / shows come out every year, i like 2 movies and 1 show per year, or 2 and 2
Just 2 to 1 movie a year would do. No TV shows because clearly fans don't want or mind those. Special presentations would do for the lesser characters. The MCU is oversaturated
Two movies, 1 show, 1 special. Maybe after a couple of years, if the audience responds it could get bumped up to two movies, 2 shows - but at least one has to be a new season of a previous successful show - and a special. I've actually really liked the specials, and I think they are a great way for Marvel to do some of that lower level worldbuilding work without the overwhelming "homework" effect.
@@StarryEyed0590thats too many. It should be 2 movies max and a show maybe if they can tell a good story. Anything more than that should have nothing to do with the movies. Nothing.
There are too many characters too many storylines and most of it is really not that well liked anymore by anyone but marvel heads.
Yep 3 movies and 3 shows a year is too much. I'd prefer 1 or 2 movies. As for TV shows, I don't really watch them.
Congratulations, Dan! Hope everything goes fantastically well 😀
“And I got the baseball hat to prove it” 😂😂😂
Everything doesn't need to be connected. From TV, Movies, and even animated shows. The What If is still MCU driven. If someone has an idea for a Wolverine movie set 100 million years ago, it doesn't have to be tied to anything. DC animated side for decades were doing their own thing and it was some of best content out.
Like the revival of Xmen animated show, it doesn't have to tie with the MCU let them tell their own story without worry about some grander plan.
I agree. Comic books start over all of the time (from the little that I know).
The best DC animated stuff was, in fact, all connected. And lead up to the Justice League. There's a lot of similarities with how the MCU built up, actually.
Since the DCAU ended things have been quite scattershot for DC animation: most have been pretty boring to straight up bad, but there are some really high high points. Like the MCU but recently.
@@SimonBuchanNz Yeah but the DCAU was its own thing, not connected to movies or live action. And most shows came after one concluded and were not coming out at the same time. And 2, 20 min weekly, animated shows why easier to consume, on standard broadcast. Then 3 full movies, 3 full tv shows a year, competing with so many other movies and high quality shows.
I remember when we were all excited about Evan Peters in WandaVision. The beginning of the downfall was turning that into a joke rather than following through. No idea why they thought it was a good idea to do that, but it really disappointed us.
Nah, people were just willing to believe anything. I catched almost instantly that it was probably going to be just a joke.
@@GoTenDu And that joke was totally irrelevant and bad. Literally they just clickbaited the audience for the sake of it.
@@adityadwivedi6154 Only if you were too naive. Otherwise, it was an hilarious piece of trolling 😂
There is one last rule I would consider adding and that is getting people who actually know and respect the characters in question and not having some underhanded agenda. It's fine to have a character deviate from what they were in the beginning to develop them or have a fun little one off, but there needs to be a level of cohesion and respect given to the characters to be developed to be heroes that viewers want to see. We want to see cool complex heroes face the challenges laid out as opposed to most of the recent heroes who are a bunch of one note, underdeveloped tropes. If a character is good, no matter who it is, people will gravitate towards it. It's just a matter of getting people who want to make characters people on the whole want to see as opposed to making a character that only the few wants to see.
Let me guess: the "underhanded agenda" is something like women or black people... exist?
I love all the ideas Dan, but what I would change is only release 2 projects a year like marvel did in the beginning. 1 movie, and 1 show or two movies or 2 shows. Also not every character needs to be the comic relief, it's ok to have a humor full side to a character but when everyone tries to be the comic relief then they wound up being the same but with a different gender, species.also, get directors that care or directors who have a knowledge of a character or take the time to understand the character they are directing for.
Doesn't matter. You're missing the core of the problem. If those 2 projects are more of the same agenda-driven trash, the problem will continue. How many projects does Law & Order have again?, And it just won't die, because they produce quality. Marvel could release 8 projects a year. If they are all stellar, then they are all stellar. A year is a long time. 15 seasons of Supernatural and people still looking for more. We see the same actors in a bunch of movies every year and no one gets tired of them (unless it's Adam Sandler because his movies suck). Christmas happens every year. Same decorations. Same songs. Same gift wrapping. Same characters. No one gets tired. Winning cures everything. It's as simple as that.
I agree. Just 1 big movie and maybe 1 Disney show. But not 6 episodes. Give us a full season.
@@trueLuminus Just my .02. Slight difference is your comparing tv shows to a multi level story line. It's easier to keep an eye on the ball when it's all under the same TV umbrella. Keep in mind what the MCU is, has never been done before in the history of entertainment.
Agreed. Maybe not forever. But definitely reel it back in so they can all get back on the same page.
@@_CoachW The MCU had a system of checks and balances that they got rid of right when Captain Marvel arrived. That's when everything started falling apart. Star Trek is TV and they are failing, miserably, at keeping an eye on the ball. The only difference between TV and movies is the budget.
We probably all remember the 'One-Shots' Marvel used to make. I think they were done for the Love of it. Then they stopped. I think that was the beginning of the Rot!
@@user-ul8xu8sk5i totally agree 👍🏻
I mean... the last One Shot was produced like 10 years ago, way before Marvel Studios reached their best time.
Dan, I could kiss you, thanks for taking the time to make this genuinely well thought out and inspired content. 😊
One small issue with your point six at 9:00 - If you work with the individual characters, there will be a (sadly) very vocal group that says "If the Fantastic Four are fighting Galactus, where were the Avengers??" Or even smaller-scale, "If Daredevil is battling Kingpin, why isn't Spider-Man helping??"
Establishing the world full of superpowered folks has led to a LOT of criticism that they're not all there helping each other all the time. A a comic fan from the late 80s/early 90s, I am quite used to individual books with stories that are separate from the team books or the epic crossovers. But to the broader audience, it just gets people complaining about stuff.
But people are going to complain, no matter what.
How do you think they should solve this?
This is honestly why I think animations are the best way to do film adaptations of comics. It can get very expensive very fast to have all of these big name actors appear together often. That can even get expensive with animations, but at least it can be cheaper but still lead to epic stories.
I’m one of the people who complain about this. It makes no sense. Which is why I don’t want any of them to be in same movie. Avengers, X-men, Fantastic 4, etc… all separate movies no mixing.
@@joen0411 Or another solution, all mixing, like the old justice league show.
@@sethdanielw you can do anything in cartoons. Not sure why it’s ok, maybe easier to suspend disbelief when it’s a cartoon.
Thanks for some of the most thought out commentary and analysis Dan!
I definitely feel what you’re saying, I think they really need to fine-tune the balance between the MCU’s signature style and the tone of whatever story they’re trying to tell in a movie or show. I enjoyed The Marvels for what it was but the lack of depth to subplots bothered me. Why didn’t we get to explore more of Kamala’s turmoil over Carol not being the hero she had built her up to be? And how she doesn’t always “fix it?” There was so much potential for these characters to grow but in the end it all feels implied.
I enjoyed the lack of depth to subplots. I' not saying this to be contrarian, but because I think seriousness would have hurt the movie. It wanted to be just action, slapstick, humour and fun and that's what it was. It would have become a seriously f-ed up drama if Kamala would have reflected on how many Kree died because of her and if it would have delved into the crisis on Hala and all the killing that Carol does. I do want serious subplots in a Daredevil movie or show, but The Marvels was just switch off your brain and enjoy the ride. And it was good at being that.
I think it's time they move away from a signature style and make movies and shows that fit the characters. And they definitely shouldn't make everything essential. People already hate doing homework.
If you like Punisher then there's a big chance you don't like Ms Marvel and if The Marvels is your favourite movie of all time then chances are high that you're not allowed to watch Deadool in a cinema.
The rule should be "Keep in mind that every Marvel movie is somebody's first Marvel movie and they need to be able to enjoy it".
Nice analysis and hope Marvel learns from this starting with Deadpool 3.
I would fire Kevin Feige and replace him with the Russo Brothers to head Marvel Studios. I would require that Jon Favreau approve any film or show involving Iron Man. I would require that Kenneth Branagh approve any film or show involving Thor. I would have Jon Favreau take over Star Wars as well. That would all be a good start.
I'm guessing you haven't watched The Grey Man. The Russos aren't some magic wand to making great movies.
@@SimonBuchanNz They seem to do well with Marvel properties. Avengers: End Game. Avengers: Infinity War. Captain America: Winter Soldier. Captain America: Civil War
You're literally the smartest yet most relatable movie critic out there. I've been a stan since Movie Fights. Lov u Dan!
Saaaaaame!
Yassssssss!
I would add that if you are bringing in new blood to handle an established character, they MUST have an understanding and have seen what came before marvels characterization between projects is all over the place and very messy. It lessens what came before because suddenly the character arc you invested in is redone. There needs to be familiarity with the freaking character bibles.
💯 Character Bibles should be created and shared among all of the current and future writers/directors/producers at Marvel. That's is one of my worst pet peeves when it came to the MCU. As this was what ultimately ruin Thor's, Loki's, Wanda's, and several other characters for me, since there were rumors that writers/directors weren't willing to watch the previous MCU projects before writing for them.
@@amorra6024 EXACTLY. It insulting to the audience that we have a better grasp on the characters than writers and directors and producers. Its also why I believe some of the actors are now distancing themselves and may not come back. Its a massive disservice to the work they did and what was created before to constantly retread the same paths or completely burn everything down for a cheap Easter egg/what comes next tease.
@@queenie_bee Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I would add one cavate to that rule; if the writer is unwilling to put in the work to actually learn and understand this character and this side of the universe? They should be fired, no qustions asked.
It made me SO MAD when the director of MoM said he never saw Wandavision. So you're playing with Wanda without knowing what she did before, just because you can & want to?!
@@ItsKimOlson to be fair wandavision was originally supposed to come out AFTER his film right? He wasn't contracted to do a film which had to tie into a TV show, they threw that onto him last min.
Honestly that one is on Feige and the Mouse.
you're the best when it comes to movies, dan, and this just proves it once again. super refreshing listening to your opinions.
also i 100% agree with everything you said in this video.
Great list of 12 points, I wonder how many of these Marvel will follow in the next 5 years!
Whatever Dan runs would be golden.
Disagree.
I think his run of Marvel would fail because he demands to make everything essential. That can only lead to diminishing returns and very same-y movies. People already complain that they have to do homework to watch Marvel movies. If you like Punisher then there's a big chance you don't like Ms Marvel and if The Marvels is your favourite movie of all time then chances are high that you're not allowed to watch Deadool in a cinema.
The rule should be "Keep in mind that every Marvel movie is somebody's first Marvel movie and they need to be able to enjoy it".
Dan, you nailed it. Considering the slowdown with Marvel lately, not just strike related, I'd like think that is already part Feige's thought process.
I’m living for the title. If only it was possible.
I really wish somehow Feige sees this and listens to you, Dan.
For step 1 I think that's currently being done with 2024 having...little to nothing. I honestly feel that covid is the biggest issue for how hard it's been to have connections for these characters. But yeah I think step one is already happening
Agree. Can’t wait for the X-Men to come back.
Congrats on the nuptials.
As of today, approximately 88 million worldwide box office for the Marvels.
I believe most of what you suggested is already being done, at least with Iger being reinstated and Feige getting back his powers (get it? superhero pun. ha!). The re-watching of the MCU as a whole by writers, exes, etc...maybe not something they would do but I am speaking as not a head of a studio, studio exec etc so take with grain of salt.
Thanks for vid.
The way I see it, MCU is in the franchise business, not the studio business. And that's the problem.
Look at The Marvels. Is that a Captain Marvel movie/sequel or an MCU movie? The brand is good when you get hit after hit. But the fatality gets mutiplied as the misses pile up.
If I run Marvel, I'd keep the movies separate. Maybe hold back the interconnectivity until the crossover is called for. That allows for more creativity and individuality of each movies, and if one subfranchise fail, the rest of the franchise don't have to be put into question.
My most basic basic running mentality would be to structure the writing and development of each film and TV show like a TV show series. With two showrunners at the top, one in charge of film one in charge of television but who hold the whole narrative and structure together. You then allow Independence within the confines of that larger narrative, and then expertly follow each and every part of it
Spider-Man should be the lead MCU character. Especially with the fact that he's the most popular Marvel character. Just like in DC, Batman and Superman should be at the center of that universe.
Excellent presentation, Dan. Here's hoping that at least a couple of people in Disney's C-Suite are thinking the way you are. As "a Marvel zombie from way back", it hurts to see them stumbling so badly.
Multiverse can be a great sandbox to play in (the "What If...?" comics have yielded some great stories), but after all the cosmic shenanigans of The Infinity Saga, it feels like trying to go bigger was also a mistake. The rumor that Secret Invasion was going to be the next saga would have been a better idea: here is a planet-side (relatively local) consequence of reaching out into the universe. What would that do to the heroes and the general population of Earth? Who can you trust? How do aliens mix with humans? Putting some limits on things help give stories good shape
Great job Dan! I think the disconnect between Loki Season 2 and the Marvels, and the need for quality control, is the ultimate "nullifier" on what needs to be done! Enjoy your honeymoon, wherever that is! (Hopefully a beach with drinks with little umbrellas) :)
I think part of the problem is the creators - directors, producers, writers - of new things are ignoring what happened to characters in past projects. They're just picking up toys in the sandbox and doing whatever, instead of keeping continuity. Hello, Wanda in MoM. She went through a journey in Wandavision, that was just ignored in MoM. They need showbooks & bibles, one person to proctect each character, instead of retroacting whatever you want for the next story. They're just giving $$$ to directors and letting them run wild instead of keeping the stories tight, like a continuing series. These projects can't stand on their own when they involve previously introduced characters.
I don't hate the shared universe stuff, but I'm so excited for the new Blade and if, like, Ant-man or someone turns up in it I'll have such a bad moment
Was having this conversation with friends recently and we came to the conclusion that the MCU feels scattered/stagnate right now because they lost their 2 Main Characters (Iron Man & Cap) and have yet to really replace them. If you remove both the Protagonist & Deuteragonist at the same time from any story it's gonna look like what the MCU looks like right now.
Things won't be back on track until we get MC-level characters like Reed Richards, Doom, Charles Xavier, Blue Marvel, etc. in the mix to act as the center gravity for the whole thing.
I agree and disagree with this. I agree that it’s nice to have a character to follow through a phase. However, I don’t want marvel to rely on that. Like Star Wars, marvel is a sandbox world. As in you can make stories that are connected or not connected to a large narrative. For example, I don’t need to see daredevil or Punisher fight Kang. Some characters should be part of a larger narrative while others should have their own self contain stories.
@@mizushogun I fully agree. I've seen people talk about how they have no interest in Andor because it doesn't feature a Skywalker or jedi, and that they didn't watch Mandalorian before Luke appeared... and that's just friggin sad.
I fully side w/ Rich Evans and RLM when they point out that Star Wars is creatively bankrupt.
You have a WHOLE FRIGGIN GALAXY and you are unable to tell any story other than the same one over and over and over?
MCU is... similar. It's a sandbox. It shouldn't have to rely on anchors. To be fair, @yeticoolbrother does say "and have yet to really replace them" which is a very good point to include. I'm fine with using a consistent character/story-perspective... but it's when they become anchors that *PREVENT* the universe from growing and expanding (ala star wars) that it becomes a problem.
@@mizushogun I think we actually agree more than disagree.
You're right in that thos types if stories are important too, all I'm saying is that a story needs a Main Character to be a story lol. If chose instead to not connect things together in to an overarching story then it's not a Cinematic Universe at that point you're just making movies. Which is also fine but that's a different thing.
Doctor Strange replaced Iron Man,
I know you did not just say "blue marvel"
The multiverse concept is an almost unwieldy plot tool when used at the universal story ARC level. Using it comes at great cost in terms of audience connection to characters.
However, the multiverse can work when it is used to delve deeper into one underlying character, such as was done with Spiderman. That story worked because it ultimately proved that no matter what details you change about Peter Parker from one universe to the next, he has a core set of character traits that are consistent. It allowed the character(s) to really grow as they considered their past actions and asked the question, "What if I handled that differently?"
By contrast, if the multiverse plot device applies to all characters across all places and all times, it just becomes an unmanageable, tangled web of stories that no one can comprehend, much less care about. And, it can also become a crutch to support lazy writing.
So, the multiverse concept can be used occasionally in limited scope, but it should not the basis you build your story world around.
additional point about the re-shoots, don't rewrite the script because of world events and don't plan too far ahead. Eg. most of this actually started with covid which altered several parts of Falcon and the Winter Soldier which also reordered the release schedule. More recently they changed Secret Invasion because of the Russian invasion.
Agree that they need to focus on _"who these characters are"_ ... But with that goes: Don't make them snarky, annoying and disrespectful to the heroes that came before. And let them have CHARACTER ARCS, for the love of all that is cinema. Phases 4 and 5 have seen many new characters, and sure, we got to know "who they were". They just weren't very relatable or likeable.
Though I understand your plight with this I will say that this is incredibly subjective. One character can be seen as a “relatable” or “unlikable” to a person, but others might not feel the same. Again it’s not that I disagree with you, I’m just pointing out how that’s not an objective statement.
Great point we all love Tony Stark because he was never snarky...
@@LikeGod_ButBetterLooking i’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this slight contradiction.
I would settle for 'don't make every character a snarky annoying always cool wiseass' and actually treat us as the audience as adults who can take a serious theme or subject without instantly needing a quip to alleviate the pressure 🙄🙄
@DarkHarlequin unfortunately that is the legacy of GotG and audiences. Look at DC tried a more serious take and it collapsed due to audience apathy. The lesson the audience has taught Hollywood is that superheroes need to be quippy and jokey all the time. A shame, but it will take a long time for them to unlearn that lesson
I think a large amount of what you presented here is exactly what should be done. I’m continually disappointed by the rush to production. I’d rather wait longer for a film to have a script that’s ready to shoot than one that comes out and feels disjointed. Yes, sometimes reshoots save movies, but only if there is a pivot to a coherent story.
I’d also love them to stop pulling their punches. It feels like some reshoots are to “fix” story elements they think audiences are not ready for or they are afraid won’t work. Why even green light that script then? It comes off as disjointed and weak when you erase the entire motivation for the flag smashers because you’re afraid of a pandemic plot in the midst of covid, which you could not have predicted. Either release it with conviction, or halt production and reshoot it with conviction. Don’t just erase to avoid. You have to replace it with something else that will work.
Fantastic 4 is a really hard project, as ultimately they have a natural, starting villain in Doom, and nobody has yet to figure out how to make Doom work in a movie.
If Dan Ran… is a great series. Love your insights
I'd add on no. 2, they should watch more movies than just superhero genres.
If you ask me, MCU's been so full of itself and within its own bubble. It acknowledges the other contents just to top it, but in scale, not in quality or to maintain continuity.
Look at James Gunn. He clearly watched a lot of things so his movies do not fall exclusively into superhero genres. That keeps it fresh.
The STRENGTH of the early MCU was the fact that their movies were legitimate movies that HAPPENED to feature superheroes. That's no longer the case.
From a comic reader’s perspective Id argue they don’t pay attention to the source material enough. Almost every story they have adapted is inferior to the original stories. They have dumbed it down for the masses. Secret Invasion is a perfect example. The comic version was an intricate and layered story. They dumbed it down so much it’s unrecognizable, leaving out ALL of what made the story a worthy read.
@@wanzdoverprojects1064Dude, I don't even read the comics and I thought SI was dumb.
@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdomyeah you would have liked it better if it was like the comics lol trust me movie/ television writers look down on comics then make trash like secret invasion
Gotg are just james Gunn movies that's why those are good. He just makes movies like he would with comic properties.
Congrats, Dan!
I disagree with giving the Avengers a break. I think the fact that there's been no Avengers and we don't even know who is in the team right now has been one of the issues with Phases 4/5. If we look back at what worked about Phases 1-3, I think one of the positives has to be that audiences always knew - right from the Iron Man 1 post credits - the films were building towards the next Avengers film. We don't have that any more
If only there were thousands of comics to use as source material 😮
Congrats, Dan!!!
This is fantastic, Dan! I wish that you did run the MCU. I’ve always ‘made mine Marvel’, but lately I’ve been suffering from a huge case of superhero and multiverse fatigue.
I’m getting fatigue from ppl pretending superhero fatigue is a real diagnosis…where was this when comics were out ?
@@Michael-mt6yb Fair enough - but I feel like physical comics afforded the reader far more choice. I had favourite titles and characters that I faithfully purchased or read. There were sometimes crossovers, new characters, or storylines that piqued my interest, that led me to buy or borrow titles that weren’t usually on my list. A few times, I took a short hiatus, but I would ultimately miss them and go back (like Dan mentions at 9:27). I never once thought, “I’m so sick of this”, which is how I am starting to feel. I don’t think that it just applies to superheroes, but anything that we get too much of at once. I just never anticipated a day when I would feel that way about something that I truly love.
@@user-ul8xu8sk5i got you on that. I think the effort of leaving home to sit watch something that isn’t for sure to be good and is expensive is no longer appealing. It sucks because going to the movies was an easy win
It’s hard to even remember a world where Marvel, let alone Disney only released 1 or 2 projects in a year, and I definitely miss that era a bit. There might not have been as much content for fans as there is now, but those few movies that did get released felt deliberate and were a more memorable experience to watch and discuss with other fans. Too much of a good thing has been ruining everyone’s appetite for superhero films, Star Wars projects and even Disney films as a whole.
In my opinion, Phase 4 started strong thematically with that "sins of our fathers" idea. Spider-Man, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Doctor Strange all had aspects of this. Loki and Hawkeye were dealing with their own shortcomings. I thought that Kang was going to be the consequence of what The Avengers did to stop Thanos since they messed with time but I'm not even sure Marvel knows what they're doing with him.
I just want to see the Mojo-verse before it all goes to ahit. I adored the wacky stuff with him terrorizing the X-Men as a kid.
i agree with this 10000%
they should have wrapped up Guardians and done a total pivot to street level heroes. especially in the wake of Chadwick's passing. cheaper movies, smaller stakes, and a refocus on character instead of plot - which was always their bread & butter
I've said it before but this is the best video to say it again. It's a simple goal. If I was a creative exec at Marvel I would have a whiteboard that says in big block letters "GO OUTSIDE!"
I have lost interest in MCU films for all the same reasons everyone else has, but I also have gotten tired of watching movies that look entirely shot on big sets or digital worlds. I want to feel like these characters are actually going around the world. I want to see real landscapes.
That is what makes Lord of the Rings timeless. They actually went to and filmed at beautiful other-worldly locations. Marry that with some fake environments, not just the fake environments the whole time.
Someone hire Dan as a story editor PLEASE
Does no one realize how corporate decisions are made? So many green lights required. Lots of money being thrown around so its very difficult to translate what one person wants into what a company will feel comfortable doing. No discredit to him. Its just what happens when corporations are in charge of IP. Especially not now since Disney knows this stuff makes money whereas when it started they weren't aware of what they had which lead to success.
It’s going to be really tough to make a F4 movie with 3 failed attempts and The Incredibles right there- arguably one of the best movies ever made.
21:16
I think my main this is agreeing with your FF / X-men idea.
I'm not sure I would've used the X-Men as early. But I kind of was thinking maybe making the FF a focus instead of the Avengers. And yes on giving the Avengers a break. I like the limit number you gave.
3 theatrical
3 in production
3 TV shows
At least as a maximum
I think new Disney hates the artistic part of story making and instead switched to a formulaic corporate way to make them instead.
I would commit to a trilogy of movies that have started. Basically Shang Chi and Eternals deserve a fully rounded trilogy. They have already seeded an IP, franchises take time to grow. You don't get a billion fresh out the gate.
Eternals doesn't need another movie.
@@FCB09daBEST Maybe, but I don't want Marvel to fall into the same stop and start trap the DCEU found themselves in. Commit to a sequel at least.
@@eon001 The thing is, there's no demand for it. No one cared for the Eternals characters like they cared for Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, GotG, and Thor.
@@FCB09daBEST no one cared about Captain America, Thor, and definitely no GotG at one point.
@@eon001 Their comic runs were way mode successful than Captain Marvel's and anyone else less popular than her. They were B tier. GotG's comic run was actually doing really well in 2009. Eternals never had a successful comic run and they have one movie that failed critically. It would only be downhill from there. They had their chance.
Just another incredibly naive take on how to fix an entire Studio…
Basically saying you would STOP, means millions of dollars of loss. Right there, you created a deficit and would be immediately removed from your role.
Marvel is likely aware of this downturn and embracing it. As a Post endgame fanbase would undoubtedly be savage and impossible to satiate. In She Hulk, the script writers literally anticipated fan backlash and wrote it into the show. They are not slaves to the fan base because if they were, all we would get is what you called a “Formula.” It is so hilariously predictable that you would add this to your list because you are assuming making a film has anything to do with a formula. Marvel has even joked that adding Wong to episodes of she hulk would help to move the show along with less vitriol. Marvel is aware they were never going to meet fan expectations after Endgame, and so they are creating content that they know every one will watch regardless of whether they are liked or not. All of this is because Fans are the biggest proponents of the self fulfilling prophecy. Fan expectations before Endgame was that Marvel would never hit the mark again, and so now when the movies start back at the ground level, the Fans cry that they were right.
Studios make money on failures and hits alike, that being said I’m amazed at the crude understanding of how studios are run. You don’t stop because content is disliked, you push harder in the direction you have set for the bigger picture. You hit on a the point about Andrew Garfields spider-man movies being terrible and hated. But movies being liked or disliked is furthest from a studios discussion when they are building a universe. What’s more important are the small few who do embrace even the biggest flops. Because MArvel is the best at bringing back the charm to just about any film or character. Fan backlash always comes back around to fan appreciation , all these flops require is time. No Way Home allowed even Garfields Spider-Man to become charming again. Marvel is not creating junk on purpose, but they are simply providing content and hedging their bets on the occasional hit and when the Avengers movies come out they will redefine expectations again.
It’s incredibly naive to think creating James Gun or Watts content systematically is even possible. James Gunn is aware of this as well. Disney and Marvel are primarily focused on giving opportunities to a diverse group of Directors to tell their stories how they want to, and accepting their flaws. I would much rather The Marvels as it is, rather than having someone like yourself assume they could do better. Ultimately it’s about the story being told. To assume you could do better is a righteousness I will never understand. Something easily said and bulletpointed for a RUclips video, but you’re not really offering anything to the conversation.
What ever the case may be, expectations changed and stories adjust. Marvel has known this since phase one, because even though we had Dark World, it didn’t stop them from making Infinity War. Just because you’re not part of the current conversation, the assumption is that something’s wrong. Have you stopped to think that Marvel knew this before it started the Multiverse Saga?
I would love to see you make these pitches to the big boys who actually do the job. They would pat you on the head and tell you how cute your plan is as they push you out the door. Not just this channel, but multiple channels assuming they would do things better are on the face, kidding themselves. Just little boys playing pretend, so in that case I guess, sure buddy… have fun “running Marvel.” Lol
So, better to plough ahead making hundreds of millions of loss rushing things out according to an unsustainable schedule than take millions of loss and give yourself a chance to create billion dollar grosses again?
If that's the way "the big boys" think... well, actually, that would explain a lot...
I like everything you suggested. One thing that goes without saying, and that you sort of touched on with the budget section that has bothered me for a couple years is hearing how rushed certain scripts were, or even films shooting without finished scripts. I would make it so the script has to be finished and be good before any preproduction work starts. Doctor Strange 2 infamously had sets built before the script was done. I would also ensure that creatives working on these films actually like these characters and aren't trying to retool things because they think the source material isn't cool. There are too many examples of directors and producers basically shitting on the source material and trying to change it to make it "cool" only to bastardize it. People working with these characters should love them and respect them like Matt Reeves working on the Batman. A last point is that directors shouldn't just be puppets for the studio to make a product that was basically made in pre viz before anyone was even attached. Let the Matt Reeves, Edgar Wrights, and James Gunns of the world come to the table with a vision instead of propping naive directors up to fail by attaching their name to a sloppy rushed mess.
Interesting ideas Dan. I especially enjoy the way you aren’t nasty when you criticise movies. I believe you offer suggestions in a genuine desire to help movie makers do better next time. I think as part of the evaluation of what went well/ what went wrong producers and directors of all movies or series ( like The Marvels) which haven’t performed to expectations should have to watch an hour of u tube movie and pop culture critics/ commentators talking about their film or series. They may learn what the punters want and, more importantly, are willing to pay for.
Too many tv shows, it feels like “homework” now. If you don’t watch 6 hours of the new show, you’re not going to understand what’s happening in the movies! Just a way to strong arm you into a Disney+ subscription
As someone who sent a “six hours in 24 minutes” video of Ms. Marvel to a friend before we saw The Marvels - agree. I love the TV shows, but it’s too much to catch up on once you fall behind.
We're approaching 5 years since the last Avengers movie, Endgame. I think people do miss them now.
I think just backing off a bit and giving creators more time to make the best movies and shows possible is by far the most important thing.
If I ran Marvel, I'd have Dan run Marvel. Welcome to the team, Mr. CEO.
of all the "fixing marvel" videos ive watched this is by far the most sensible, mature and exciting, id really love to see a follow up video on this given the loki finale and maybe going more in depht on future proyects, the big anchor tipe movies like xmen, faantastic four and all the kang/secret wars situation that also seems to be falling apart because of jonnathan majors. really love your content, been a fan since the screen junkies days and just found your channel, awesome stuff!
Is way more simple: put good writers and characters that people like.
Not that I haven’t loved a lot of what we’ve gotten, but I’d love to see you do one for if you ran the Star Trek division at Paramount. Like getting more movies, more seasons in a show, etc.
One thing I would add on to the multiverse idea is... diversify your creative teams. Not everything has to tie into the main MCU, and creatively, maybe not have every creative team should report to the Marvel Studios producers/executives like Kevin Feige.
Ie, pre-Phase 4 and pre-Fox merger, Marvel Studios wasn't the only studio creating content: Fox was making their own films for better or worse, ABC and FX were making their own wide variety of programming independent of Marvel Studios, each targeted towards different demographics (Netflix, Hulu, Freeform, ABC, FX, etc), and of course Sony is still making Spider-Verse content.
Marvel Games around the mid-to-late 2010s was also aggressively approaching developers and publishers and licensing out properties. Some weren't great (Crystal Dynamics's Avengers, Capcom's Marvel v Capcom Infinite), some were okay (Telltale's GotG, Tecmo Koei's Ultimate Alliance 3), and some were amazing (Insomniac's Spider-Man, Eidos Montreal's GotG, 2K's Midnight Suns). But what really stood out was just the sheer variety; none of the games felt samey (unless you count sequels).
They don't have to go to the same extreme as licensing out to external studios, but maybe explore and delegate internally within Disney. ABC probably could've made a much better version of She-Hulk as a law procedural, whereas Disney Channel or Freeform probably could have better handled and not rushed Ms. Marvel (Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is pretty good).
The MCU and now the DCU might make a comeback if they get the right directors and writers and give the fans what they want
This is why you don’t run Marvel, Dan. The trick is to create a movie with no plot and its only purpose is to serve the big picture then throw 250 million dollars at it. 😂
Agree with most of it. The essential, though, scaling back and prioritize story telling over marketing, it would be hard to implement even for Dan Feige. Too many shareholders screaming for more from the board. Big Business right now has no sense of the long term. They ditched growth for higher and higher increases in quarter economic growth relative to the same quarter of the last year, and so on. That's antithetical with a well thought-out plan
The Avengers have been benched though. We have seen them for 4 years, we don’t even know what the lineup is
I really need a Dazzler movie now you mention it. Imagine a Wonder Woman 1984 but done with the proper amount of cheese - instead of just being cheesy.
Good idea dan! Congrats on the wedding!
I'd put my phone on airplane mode, and hide behind the sofa. Maybe everything will be ok if it's ignored
Dan, I think it is worth analyzing a series that was as underrated as its comic, "Doom Patrol," which had a great development very attached to its version of the comic and with a very good closing in its last season. Something redeemable from the DCU
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
I'd also change the test screening audience. Test screenings never seem to have positive reviews, so while I appreciate screenings raise the issue of leaks, I'm not sure using executives and their families as basis for script changes and reshoots is the way forward.
I already liked the this video based on the title. I'm sure after I watch--it will stay there.
That last point is SO GOOD
agree with all and hard agree with the multiverse idea. marvel studios should absolutely make movies/shows focusing on other universes characters. it is literally in the name: multiverse saga - it is how they should do it. perhaps put a different counsel of Kang member in those universes pulling strings, leading to Kang dynasty. and then naturally bring the multiversal characters together to secret wars. this makes way too much sense and it is weird that the smart ppl at marvel studios didn't think of it.
Dan: we need to go back to formula!
Kevin Fiege: *snarls* back to formula!
*tosses Dan across a glass wall*
Excellent suggestions, Dan. I would add that Marvel needs to hire more experienced, proven directors. Alfonso Cuaron made easily the best Harry Potter movie along with terrific films like Gravity and Children of Men, not to mention Y Tu Mama Tambien, one of the best movies of this century. Imagine what Cuaron could do helming the X-Men or the Fantastic Four franchise. Bong Joon-Ho has made monster and sci-fi movies in The Host and Snowpiercer along with masterpieces like Memories of Murder and Parasite. Hire him. David Lynch once adapted Dune. Imagine Lynch adapting the Frank Miller-Bill Sienkiewicz Elektra: Assassin mini-series from the 1980s or his take on Legion. How about Joel Coen or Steve McQueen provided you could match them with the right project? Heck, turn Martin Scorsese around and have him direct a gritty Daredevil. Sure, most of them would require final cut, but these folks all have vision and style. It's big risk, big reward.
I think the biggest problem is the CEO of Disney, Bob Iger. He took a lot of Kevin Feige’s creative control away and added a lot of middle men between himself and head of Studios. These middlemen are telling Feige what they want made and has added to his plate. Plus, Bob Iger gave the directive to add all those Marvel Disney+ plus shoes because he wanted to add content quickly. I love your ideas, but ultimately, it’s up to Iger to change things back and stop meddling.
Appreciate Dan’s restraint of not saying “Make Marvel Great Again”