Rich since a kid so he doesn't know that. Did you hear his complain about the car or the fact he put panel after the chimney just because it looks nice. 😂🤦♂️
I don't follow the logic here about how a model s and x refresh would protect the value of older s and x models.... wouldn't that make the older models even less desirable and subsequently even more devalued?
True, a refresh does nothing to the current value of your car. The only things affecting resale values are well-known recalls on the model, too many cars available for sale, ie, over supply or company announcing bankruptcy. All large luxury sedans are seeing lower resale value as there's too much inventory available in the used car market.
Total nonsense. He is pretty much having a tantrum because the new Model 3 has slightly better tech than his older Model S? How dare Tesla work constantly to improve their cars. I would bet this guy was one of those kids that would complain when one of his siblings got three more peas on their plate. Seriously. Break down his comments. He is upset that his Model S--which is still far superior to every other car from *every* other brand--is not quite as modern as Tesla's newer Model 3 and that he pretty much feels betrayed or neglected by Tesla. He literally said...they should mention Model S owners at the factory tours. The level of selfish pettiness on display here is a little bit soul crushing to me.
Just aim for the best in your situation. Idc you work at McDonald's, aim to be the manager. If you work at a plant, aim to be a lead and so on. You keep that mindset everything will fall in place. I'm only 25 I have a house and 3 cars now. And I came from nothing. Just stay focus
Voe 88 Im actually 21 and 3 semesters away from finishing college. Im also thinking about getting my Phd in physics. Not sure if I want a house anytime soon, I feel like it would be too much work.
@@justinjones5281 that's the point. There are a lot of things we don't need- like a clothes dryer, that use a lot of electricity. If you want to go solar, you need to downsize your consumption, at least until you are rich like Musk. BTW, I'm quite a bit over 10. Been round the sun a good few times.
Rob Ostry doesn't sound like he does either. It's an emotional issue. When you pay full retail for an S and a few years later others are getting something better or updated and paying less, it grates on you. I understand. New one has better motors, better styling, better FSD and computer and new buyers paying less. Oh, the march forward of technology.
he is not representative of most people. Since when does anyone look at a car purchase as an investment? They always deprecate. Even when you spend more, they just lose bigger chunks of value. That is just reality, no matter what anyone at Tesla tells you.
Dan Cobb people that are smart about how they spend their money think of cars as an investment. Yes, of course, they all depreciate. But you can also buy a car that has better resale value. That’s how I was able to get my M3. I’m not rich, but I saved and had good resale value on my car, putting a big chunk of change towards my M3.
I have a 91 Nissan primera, owned it since 98 and done over half a million kms in it. Was 7k back then to buy and with all the clutches, brakes, services etc it's still just under 25k for the last 20 years driving. So I can drive my car in theory for 80years for the same price as 1 new tesla. I think I'm onto something as it's around 1k a year which to me is very cheap transport. She's not fast or all that pretty but does the job I need it for.
Elon musk has said several times to either disbelief or surprising lack of interest that Teslas are designed to last way longer than typical cars. They weren't designed for the every 3 year crowd, and some will be disappointed. I am a 10-15 year type owner and very happy with the strategy.
A car is like a house on wheels. It takes you to places while keeping you safe. And like all houses, you want to hold onto it for as long a possible. Then again, I have the mentality of "use it till it breaks."
There is no logical reason to consider depreciation as a factor when buying a car. A car ALWAYS depreciates. A car is not an investment. It's an expense...every time. So just buy the thing and drive it until it won't drive any more.
Dustin Dawind their definitely is a reason to consider depreciation values. I’m pretty sure very little people keep the same car until it completely dies. On another note spends on the make and model of the car deprivation values are different, for example Ford sells cars and trucks. The cars depreciate a lot more than a truck does as well as diesel vs gas. So if your purchasing a car and your looking for a sedan you can purchase a Ford Fusion or a Honda civic. The Ford Fusion will depreciate in value a lot sooner and much lower then the civic. In economics depreciation rate and value is the key to the cars life and price. So it indeed is very logical to consider depreciation when purchasing a new car.
Actually 1 brand that actually can be an investment, Volvo if you get repairs from the dealership 95% of your repairs are covered for life. Things that they won't cover are items that are expected to wear like tires, belts, hoses but dam near everything else is covered like motors, transmission and etc. For life. Can't beat that
Don't know much about cars I see. The cars that depreciate the most are unreliable one's. People want to sell them because they keep breaking down and no one wants to pay for them because the reputation of being junk. Example, range Rover. Unless it's leased.
Roscoe James It’s not that simple. It’s Tesla’s choice is to not get licensed staff in that state as anyone can get licensed for solar. They chose not to. Net metering is a tricky thing when you need to manage your grid. The utilities base costs and demand don’t change but then they have to give a massive discount to those people while everyone else shoulders the higher cost. They still have to maintain lines to someone who pays no money. Imagine 10% of homes being that way. Germany has had many problems with this and they have large utility solar farms not just households. The issue is the electricity just isn’t in demand until later in the day when solar production is waning and staring and stopping production is tricky and only possible with gas plants. Until economical storage is possible (current batteries do not meet this need) net metering just doesn’t work and raises the costs for everyone else or once it hits critical mass, everyone.
@Nospam Spamisham The truth about panel life is around 30 years, not 10. And the truth about recycling is that it's just getting ramped up. Why? Because the largest crop of installed panels is just starting to degrade to the point of replacement. So your argument would be to continue poisoning our air with coal? Have oil spills in our rivers? And I guess we should shut down Duracell and Energizer because they're most certainly a product end of life mess for the environment. And I guess you're someone that believes wind power causes cancer.
@@AlexlfmIs that confirmed? Tesla has decided to go against the way they've operated in every other state and not get a license for the state? GA isn't limiting them, just as has happened with their online car dealerships and brick and mortar service centers around the country in states blocking innovation and doing their job to protect the fossil fuel industry and the association of auto dealerships? Which is what's happening in every other state that's trying to prop up dying industries.
The thing with electricity generation is that peak demand is hard to manage because it has to be generated on demand. Base power is easy because it's basically flat and predictable 24/7. When does solar generate power? Right through the middle of the day when peak demand is highest. Solar makes peak easier to manage and cheaper to produce because it lowers the height of the peaks in the demand curve. That's why most utilities have been lobbying Congress to expand solar (with some tweaks to make the grid sustainable, like separating power from infrastructure on the bill) and to expand the EV incentives because most people are charging at night when demand is lowest, and lowering the peak demand while increasing the base demand flattens the demand curve and makes everything about generating electricity simpler and cheaper in the long run. That's not to say there aren't changes that need to be made, or that some governments or utilities aren't badly mismanaged, but both solar and electric vehicles are a net benefit to the utilities once they quit living in the 1970s and adapt.
he sorta countered his own argument there, "what can you buy now that is an equivalent to the Model S?... nothing" and like was mentioned by Elon, there is STILL nothing better from anyone else that even meets the specs of a 2013 Model S! So I don't see the problem. Just stop checking resale value and enjoy your car, and hold onto it until something worth trading it for comes along, don't dump it and then complain nothing is new... Well the batteries just got upgraded, you can go 370 miles in a Model S now... it'll be another 7 years before anyone else matches that at this rate. Or just get a Model 3 and accept that it's not a $100,000 car and enjoy it.
That's right. I guess if you don't drive your Tesla it is a very bad investment. I'll have 200K on mine by next year. Saved a whole lot of gas and enjoyed the heck out of it. If I had any other car and put 200K on it it would be just about worthless. I still have 4 more years of warranty, and only 7% battery capacity decrease. Its a heck of a value if you use it.
haha I actually live in Georgia and once I saw his house I was like that is such a Georgia looking house. And yea I am not sure about other states but the birds in Georgia are always chirping. Very pleasant to wake up to.
RE: Depreciation. A car is NOT an investment, it is a depreciating asset AND every car goes down in value by more than what the owner thinks it should. Truth be know, Tesla has done more than any other EV company to try to keep the value of their cars at a reasonable number. Sadly most people think their car should be worth more after three years than is reasonable or reality. To say that the Tesla interior is 'so 2011' is failing to recognize that in 2012 when they were first hitting the market they were so far ahead of the competition that even an early Tesla still looks so 2018, not 2011. IMHO :)
Ever heard of Ferrari 458 speciale? F12 TDF? Oh is too expensive? Do you know how much a 1969 Chevy Corvette is worth now compare to when it just came out? I must admit, most cars are depreciation assets but if you’re very knowledgeable they can be a gold mine.
ram 1901 my car is my main source of making money. It’s really an asset for most people considering it makes it really easy for them to get to work and make way more than the car costs.
@@fringestream990 going to work and coming home in your vehicle does not count as business use here in Australia. and i agree to that logic. otherwise everything you do can be reasoned to be a source of making money.
I think Michael is one of the very few Tesla owners who doesn't get excited about the software updates and make you feel like you've gotten a whole new car.
A lot of the software updates are just things that other car companies already offer out of the box, have no need of, or have fringe benefits. Autopilot being the exception.
Upd Late Who else offers Sentry Mode with 3 cameras keeping watch. Who else has increased range and power with an OTA? These options u say are available on every car we’re not free, u paid for them. Check the window sticker if u don’t believe me. I would bet u have no experience with a Tesla and r speaking from ignorance. The guy in the video wants Tesla to give him something no other car manufacturer does. He wants Tesla to protect his investment. What other car manufacturer does that?
A lot of people are compelled to chase the latest shiny new thing. Not his fault, just the conditioning the marketing companies have conditioned him into. I think he said he did recognize no other car makers had a shiny new thing that is any good and that the model 3 is the best shiny new thing that is also better than his model S. But he is sad, because it is expensive to keep buying the latest shiny new thing? Ya
The depreciation of his BMW X5 eDrive is way worse than a Tesla Model S...Not to mention not every BMW service center offers support for eDrive vehicles.
And I dont understand why the model S not getting updated make his old Model S depreciate more...isnt it the opposite? If Tesla refreshes the Model S then the older model S will look even older and depreciate more...I am confused
@@voltaire229 completely true. This is what I was thinking. A model s and x refresh would have prevented sales slowdowns for those vehicles. Right now the 370 mile range on a new model s is just hands down incredible and none of the competition comes even close
So rich. He couldn’t just build his own home with those amenities added in. Instead of retrofitting an older house to the point he’s “painted” the electrical panels.
Here in Brazil we have a different system. You generate credits, does´t matter the price of the energy that you produced, just the amount of KWh, if you made 10Kwh in the day and you consume 10 at night, in the end of the month you will gonna have a $0 energy bill.
not scalable and doesnt work...100kwh used during noon is not worth the same as 100kwh used at night, thats why tesla owners usually charge at night, lower rates due to low demand
@@Richard-ie1ifnot every country has the variable tariff. Variable tariff is more applicable in case of colder and usually developed countries, whose per capita consumption is order of magnitude higher than that of countries like Brazil, India. So, yes, here in India too, the net metering system works just as Brazil. And it scaled up pretty good even with a huge population.
@@Amuzic_Earth brazil doesnt have a significant % of its grid as solar. 1kwh at noon is not worth 1kwh at night. eventually utilities would not be able to eat the price difference
2:23 His information is not entirely accurate. I opted to have my Powerwall's run the entire home. It all depends on how many you have, and how much load your home uses at one time. 4:59 Have you tried washing the panels with 'Windex outdoor'? It attaches to your hose and you can wash from the ground or a ladder.
I understood him to be referring to a single powerwall, when he said "a powerwall". I took that to mean a single powerwall cannot provide enough amperage to run everything in the house at once. Multiple powerwalls are necessary for many homes depending on how much demand you have... Although, sure, I would just climb up there and wash them myself. It's a good point, but c'mon dude. Get a ladder.
I'm definitely reconsidering the value of a full fill with under the roof expansion foam and a nice layer of insulation panels across the stringers. I've already got an ice box effect downstairs in the fully finished "basement" and it would be awesome in Georgia to have no problem controlling the temperature gradient upstairs as well. (20 years? ....ah, nevermind and sorry. I expect those battery cells to be long gone before break even) Electric companies? if you want some storage depth to stabilize the grid, it's time to pony up where it's desirable to have surge storage near your transient loads. I'd be happy to donate a few square feet and up to my nominal height restrictions to earn a discount on my bill!
I foam-encapsulated our attic, encapsulated the crawl space, added foam to the outside walls, and replaced the single pane windows and back door with good double-panes. Replaced the 15-year-old AC with a 16-SEER heat pump. We keep our temps reasonable - about 79 in the summer (Dallas) and 71 in the winter. Our power bills are tiny - maybe $500/year. I'd love to get a PV system, but it would just be for the "gee-whiz" factor. Efficiency >> production.
Wow, so many generalizations and assumptions from this Michael guy, it's ridiculous. I've worked in the solar and battery storage industry for many years and yes, you can power your house with 1 Powerwall, if your consumption is low enough. It DOES NOT matter the size of house, it's the energy consumption. Not everyone has AC, like myself, I live in a cool climate, at 7,000', and never need it and with all LED lights and EnergyStar appliances, our power consumption is very low. I have a 5kW solar array and produce 130% of my home power and haven't had an electric bill in 2 years. And his opinions on the Model's S & X should have been cut out as they're bogus. I just shopped for a small SUV and every luxury SUV brand available, except Tesla, looks like the 1992 models. The Model X is still, 10+ years ahead of anything out there. Yes, I'm sure Tesla is working to refresh the S & X but they're putting the majority of their resources to the 3 and Y, along with the Semi, which are all the real profit makers. And lastly, the resale value of the Model's S & X are pretty strong, in comparison to Cadillac, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes and every other luxury brand cars, especially on the larger sedans which all have LOUSY resale values as few people want them, anymore. Resale value on the X is very strong. I wouldn't use this guy as an expert without interviewing someone else, for counter info. But, we love you Kim.
I think he was considering his house with zero compromises. Sure, someone with a gas clothes dryer, uses a clothes line or fossil fuel heating may be fine. Or geothermal HVAC may be a good investment there. What do you use for heating?
@@greennewdeal5539 Agreed. Funny how he gripes about the Model S resale value, and drones on about nonsense and the last clip you see an ICE BMW in the garage. Obviously, this guy is a fair-weather fan of EV's as he'll go back to a POS ICE car after owning a Tesla.
Russell Fine Arts I’ve been thinking about going solar + battery storage as well. Generally speaking, how well would this work in Florida where the cost is approximately 12 cents per kilowatt? I’m currently plugging in my CMax energi daily, so I do have an additional draw along with the typical household appliances, AC, .etc. We’re beginning to see huge solar farms, used to power thousands of homes, but at the residential level, we’re far from where we could be.
So your an expert on solar.. then maby instead of buying this bullshit you'd just make your own solar generator n battery bank for a fraction of the price..
why did you buy 3 powerwalls? they dont save any money and their price is falling fast. for 4 of them 32,000$ 52kwh you can get a model 3 with 50kwh and an entire car of parts for free
I, too, have 3 Powerwall's. During a grid outage they'll keep me going 100% for 12-18 hours, or many days if I cut down on my household usage by 40%. @@Richard-ie1if For places which have tarrifs they can be used to power the home during the evening hours when electricity is more expensive. For places prone to power outages they are great for keeping a home running for days. Also, prices have increased since I purchased mine.
Did not quite understood the rationale that by rather updating/refreshing the Model S ... his 2012 Model S would have kept better its value ... really? ... to me it sounds the other way around ... once they refresh the Model S ... those older Model S will be worth even less. Am I missing something here???
Nop you did not miss something, they did refresh the model s and he expect that his 2012 model s would keep it's value. He is just mad that he won't get the same amount money back, I think he thought that if you buy a tesla is like buying a house, when it gets old remodel it and sell it at the same price or more.
I have six powerwalls installed and 112 solar panels to fill them. They run the whole house no problem. I am “off grid” eight months of the year saving me £10k p.a. Love it!
Another example of how our species is de-evolving lol. We went from surviving extreme heat with no AC and cold winters with a cave and a fire and we could support ourselves for food and clothing, to needing to pay someone to clean our solar panels lol.
Although I have no problem getting on my roof to clean it, That's a pretty steep roof. And he'd be up there wrangling with a hose that could trip him up, and the roof would be wet and slippery from all the washing. If you have the money, but don't have the safety equipment, expertise, or confidence to get up there, its probably smart to get a professional.
Common' guys of course im just jealous of him having not just one tesla wallbatterie no he has two....and obviously to much money to let the solarpanels cleaned
@@MRWTrades That's a pretty relative statement.... They are not generally affordable to the general workforce. That's a fact. Solar in general is not even a possibility.
The cost of solar is the install. In December I put up a 7kw system by myself. I used all commercially available mounting (Ironridge, Solaredge inverter and optimizers). It was rainy in December here in Austin and it took about a week working 3 hours a day. I spent $5400 or 80 cents a watt. I had estimates after tax credit and rebate of $3 per watt or $21000. I did it as a fun project and something I have been thinking about for 10 years. Since December 13 to April 30, they have produced 2.7MW or 2700KW hours of energy. Installation and government BS is 75% of the cost. I decided to go without inpections and permits as it is a right to work state and I have been working with electricity for 50 years. Everything is up to code as I also know how to read codes and have talked to electricians about it. Here electricity is only 10c per kw so in 4.5 months I have generated $270 in electricity with about half feeding the grid. I am tempted to set the meter to read production as the standard meters have that capability but not yet. Last week I was putting out 32kw per day for 4 of 7 days.Today it has been on/off rain and cloudy but has produced 16kw. What I have found is during a sunny day I feed the grid and my sense system shows zero grid useage for most of the day even with the HVAC system on. I would like to see solar stories. Love your channel and seeing your videos. Watched all of them. KUDOS
Luxury brand vs consumer brand. Nobody talks about the facts that the S and X are far superior vehicles. Just that the 3 is much cheaper and goes a long way due to bigger batteries. Granted range is important, but the interiors of the S and X are miles better than the 3. Also much better space, sound, and speed.
I think Michael is way off base with his assessment of the valuation of the model X and S. Fact is that traditional ICE vehicles especially luxury vehicles depreciate much faster on average than any of the Tesla’s. I don’t know what year his model S was but Musk has stated that all Tesla vehicles post 10/16 are full self driving capable. With the advent of the Tesla Robotaxi service these vehicles will actually appreciate. Also his logic regarding updates to the model x and s don’t hold water either. The fact that the cars are basically the same hardware will actually help residual values. Think about it when a vehicle is refreshed everyone what’s the new refreshed version and not the older looking feature lacking previous model. As Tesla begins to update the Model X & S you will see greater deprecation of the older models. Even with this new model effect it’s clear that once Tesla gets the software and hardware perfected and regulatory approvals all fully autonomous capable vehicles will actually appreciate in value. If your smart you’ll make deposit on a model Y. By the time they start to produce the Model Y full autonomy most probably will be here or at least highly publicized. In my opinion the price of all Tesla post 10/16 vehicles will then begin to appreciate and those with deposits on model Y’s will be locked in to pre autonomy prices. Easy to make a buck on a small refundable investment.
eh, generally yes but tesla keep devaluing its own cars. A 2018 February 100D lost 15,000$ in value in a month and then another 4,000$ when the drivetrain got upgraded. 95k car going for some 80k or so now. Ouch, not to mention they didnt get free supercharging despite being scalped.
@@Richard-ie1if Wait, you think Tesla's mistake was giving customers more than they paid for? I agree that is not good business, but really? That is the "problem"? lmao
or if its too scary just pay someone to go up there once and install some hoses with holes in them, and then just pump some water through once in a while
Every one assumes buying an electric car is an easy idea, most dream about it (no more gas station trips) but when you see a video like this, took time to even get a power wall installed, it makes you understand the current owners are still in the fore front of the revolution. As he pointed out, with out the people who buy the "expensive" new ones, the company has no way of boosting the eventual sales of the affordable ones to the masses. Dont be a hater because some can afford the nice new cars, he also mentioned the old ones are losing value, so...go buy a used one and get into electric cars if thats your desire. Very informative video, thank you.
I’ve actually looked at the data on depreciation and the model s is still doing better than other comparable cars with resale value. So yes model 3 did hit their resale value, but the model s and x are still holding their value percentage wise about the same or better comparable to other expensive luxury sedans (5 series 7 series, e class, s class, a6, etc. especially when you consider the $7500 tax credit the original owner received. Many luxury cars have 3 year residuals of 50-60% of msrp. Most 3 year old Tesla’s are doing better than that. So yeah the $ amount of depreciation is high the % isn’t that bad. When you’re buying a 100k$ car you should be aware that expensive cars depreciation much more than cheap economy cars...
Some points are incorrect. In fact the Models X and S get Updates. The Model 3 Motors for instance are kind of to be build in for X and S as well, as far as i know. Also i heard about facelifts for X and S. And the FSD Computer is there as an Update for X and S, if some of them don't already have it for latest auto driving improvements. Just try to find this kind of Support in other car manufacturers. Good Luck
I have three powerwalls and we got three so we could run the whole house, including two AC units. If storm watch is active and you have it enabled it will charge from the grid. I've seen it. Sadly it will start charging when the storm watch is flagged so that may be during peak rates -- but your powerwalls will be charged from the grid. The powerwall app has settings that allow you to charge (via solar) while the rates are cheap and send solar to the grid and run off batteries when the rates are high. In a netmetered tou plan, I can actually use more than I generate and still generate a credit. This ability to shift when you use grid power is about the only way the powerwalls help pay for themselves.
@Harvey Payne - I had the same experience with "storm watch" mode in California. During the high wind events last year. My Dual PW2 system also charged from the grid when it activated to bring my units to 100% charge.
why did you buy 40kwh of powerwalls for 24,000$ when you can get 50kwh of model 3 and an entire free car for 32,000$? the price of the packs is in freefall and they'll never pay for themselves. shouldnt qualify for the federal subsidy at all. there is not any location in the US where batteries can profitably arbitrage power rates...if there was the utility would buy a larger more efficient battery than you, not spend half the costs on labor installation, have it centrally located to distribute power and close the delta on night and day rates..... it doesnt work at the current prices
I am in Texas and Storm Watch has triggered the Powerwall to pull power from grid. It does do a notification on the phone app, but I tend to go in and tell it to stop because there is enough charge on our 2 Powerwalls to last the night and then recharge using Sun next day. Only time we have had to pull from grid is if there are 3 or more really cloudy days in a row and it is time to recharge the Model 3 even if there isn't enough Sun to do that while also recharging Powerwalls for the night (at slower power generation while it is cloudy). The Michael guy gave some other misinformation and maybe forgot about the Storm Watch exception or the regulations in his state may not allow even Storm Watch to pull from grid.
Right, seriously. This guy is hilarious. That is still one of the most advanced techie cars. I grew up with 30+ year old machines for my first cars; during the late 90's I drove a 60 falcon built before seat belts were standard, & with a AM radio mounted in a solid steel dashboard. I was just thankful to be driving. Guess it is a matter of perspective. Maybe he should be just a little more grateful that he clearly has so much abundance.
@@ianduncan8121 Despite no major changes since 2012, the interior of the Model S is still modern by any standard. That's how far ahead they were out of the gate.
@@wbucrash6492 It won't though, that's the "problem" with Autopilot. Once the old models can't be upgraded to the newest Version they become essentially obsolete.
Isn't the depreciation of a luxury sedan (like the Model S) in line with the depreciation of similarly priced equivalent gas powered cars? I understand the goal of wanting Tesla to refresh the Model S and X, but if they refresh those models he would still own one of the pre-refresh models that customers would find less desirable than the new Model S and X? In other words, the same argument he made that Model 3 is what people are switching to could because it's new could be made about a refreshed Model S and X.
its not the refresh its the fact that sales dropped 50% and tesla ate crow and abandoned 10%+ of the margin they enjoyed on the cars. they dropped price by 10,000$+
You can run your entire house on just two powerwalls + solar, I've been doing just that. It all depends on your needs and when you use the power. If you're trying to use multiple high demand appliances at the same time either at night, early in the morning or late in the afternoon, then yeah it may not work as you're not working with the extra solar production. Two powerwalls, as you've stated, can output a constant 10kW. If at solar noon your AC is running and let's assume it's a Saturday so you're home cooking / doing laundry... your draw may very well be over the 10kW constant output rating of the powerwalls, but you're also producing peak power from your solar (or could be), which is likely capable of handling the rest of that load. So assume your AC is drawing 4kW, dryer is pulling 6kW and stove is pulling another 2kW, that's a total of 12kW, not including anything else so round up to 13kW constant draw. Your powerwalls might only be able to output a constant 10kW, but as long as your solar is outputting at least 3kW, you're still not drawing from the grid. If your solar is producing 10kW then you'd only be pulling 3kW from the powerwalls, again, still fine. In the event of a grid outage you'd just have to pay more attention to what you're doing and not overload the system. Went the entire month of March without needing to draw power from the grid so it's definitely possible and doable even for somebody like myself who's in central FL with no utilities other than power (no gas, water, sewer...) so all of our needs are met electrically. If you know multiple days in advance that a bad storm is going to hit, one of those northern fronts for example, just set your powerwalls to backup only or with 100% reserve. They'll likely be able to charge up over those days leading up to the storm(s), otherwise yes you're relying on the StormWatch function.
Dryer ? Dry your laundry on a line outside. Look at your weather. In the U.K. we are frightened to use the electricity because dryers are expensive to run, and rack up your electric bill. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 The more people who buy Tesla solar system, the cheaper the product becomes.. 👍💜
In MN with Excel Energy, I get about 13 cents plus a bonus of 8 cents or about 21cents for stuff sent to the grid. At night, I buy electricity to heat my water for 4 cents and the rest of it for 13 cents.
i guess you prove my point, energy at night is only worth 4 cents, thats the fuel cost of making it when demand is low. thats how much solar power is worth as it doesnt cover the costs of the power plants on cloudy days or any of the transmission lines. kinda unfair that you get 30% federal subsidy and another 60% subsidy on sell back for nearly a 70% subsidy for solar in a state that shouldn't even have solar
depends on too many factors. my electric in cali is 500 per month my gas is 700 per month and my insurance is 225 per month. i’m buying a model s gas goes to zero. electric bill goes to zero with 3 power walls. insurance will go to 125 so my situation is i paid 125k total for car and solar roof. (cash) now i save 1300 per month. will take 8 years to recoup my investment. then i profit 1300 per month after. 30 year outlook. around 300k profit.
Until you realize that you'll have to replace your roof one day and all your solar panels will have to be removed and reinstalled. Hope none of them get damaged in the process. Good luck!
Michael Greene That's why I'm glad the UK uses tile or slate for roofs, good for a century plus. That shingle shit used in the US is what we reserve for garden sheds and dog kennels.
As he compares what other manufactures did in updating their cars, let’s also keep in mind that all of them, except for ford, in the US, went bankrupt…
10:20 this guy complaining that his old Tesla is depreciating because Tesla's new car had significantly advanced in many ways? This just shows how comfortable people have become with corporate "refreshes" of products that change almost nothing but the price tag. He is literally trying to criticize Tesla's innovations by saying that they are TOO innovative.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm willing to bet most of us would love more videos about solar and Powerwall options for our homes. When Michael mentioned that he had a 20 year return on investment on his Powerwalls, I was shocked! I guess that goes to show how different it can be for each person based on each persons electric rates, electric consumption, and state regulations. Michael's comments about his disappointment about the Model S and X refresh made me think for a bit. He has put more money than I have in Tesla products, so I feel that his perspective does carry some value. Here is where I landed with it: I never thought about the Model S and X refresh until the Model 3 came out. However, a Tesla owner isn't just buying a vehicle with an "outdated" design, they are (1) buying the safest vehicle on the road, (2) they have own an EV with the longest range, (3) they have access to the largest EV charging network in the world, (4) their Tesla continually gets free features via over the air updates and (5) they are apart of a great community of people. I'm alright with the current "outdated" design to gain all the other Tesla benefits that a person wouldn't necessarily get with another EV that has a more "modern" design.
Dang so he’s complaining about how his car went down in resale? How is that shocking? With any type of new car with new tech your previous model is going to depreciate like all cars. Tesla is no different 😂😂😂😂
Dude, your Model S dropped so much in value because of the lack of AUTOPILOT 2.0. It wasn't because of the interior or the motors. 2017 Model S will depreciate a LOT slower than that pre-Autopilot 2.0 car.
I have two Powerwalls on my home and they are able to power my 4000 sq feet living space home with 2 Central AC units and anything else anybody uses through the night to keep us as 100% self-powered. The only electrical equipment they can't support is plugging in our Model 3 to charge when there isn't enough Sun to handle majority of that power need. Our solar system is sized at 14.56 kWh which while Sun is out is sufficient to charge our Model 3 on 40amp 220v circuit without needing any extra energy from either Powerwall or Grid. Anything over 12 kWh during peak sun hours should be able to while running everything else at home including AC units. So the Powerwalls are not just for "essentials". It is true that they can't support EV charging at 40+amp from 220v circuits after the Sun is down because they simply don't have that much capacity stored being only 5kWh each while the car can store a few times more than that, but they can handle pretty much anything else we use between Sun cycles. To clarify, the Powerwalls can charge our EV, but it depletes them really fast without adding much range and that would force pulling power from Grid during night, so we just manage when we charge our car to when the Sun is out. Note: Our central heating, water heating, stove, and dryer all use Natural Gas burners.
Tesla Powerwalls saved me many times.! There are always power outages in my studio's area when it gets too hot out, and they always kick on and even recharge with solar at the same time. The tech support is amazing, thank you Tesla!
Wow! Super informative video. Michael thank you for sharing your real world knowledge with the Tesla community. Kim, keep up the great work your guys are doing! 👏👏👏
There is some misinformation here. You can actually run a/c, washer and dryer etc., you just have to watch the loads. Also, yes, powerwalls do charge from the grid, it depends on the setting you have it on. And also, now it has a feature called Storm Watch, which is activated if a storm is going your way and it fully charges your powerwall from the grid if needed.
He's not wrong about the S and X having some dated aspects, but I don't get how he doesn't see what tesla is doing. They're trying to sell 3s right now, and the S was always billed as being a first adopter vehicle. Yes it needs a refresh, but from a business standpoint nothing should take any shine from the 3 right now until demand drastically slows down (which may be very soon or here already)
There was one point that I think should have been better explained and that is that the pros and cons of solar and Powerwall change greatly depending on the state you live in.
mostly cons. if energy arbitrage worked it would scale with size and utilities would be the most competitive player in the game as they should be. currently its a novelty luxury product and nothing more
I am putting solar in my house which is on 40 acres in Arizona. It is off-grid despite having the juice at the southern edge of the property. I am installing the panels three feet over the ground. Also, I'm putting a gutter along the lower edge of the panels and sending the water to a partially subterranean tank for use in the garden.
Love how he’s talking about energy. He knows enough. Love the enphase microinverters and tesla powerpacks! Using his powerpacks for peak shaving and saving costs in regions without net metering is smart. Going with non Tesla energy storage products (i.e. LG Chem batteries, etc) will drastically reduce wait times, since they are readily available anywhere!
9:08 "I'm sitting in a car that is 2011 design. The ergonomics of that vehicle are so old ...." hahaha! I drive a 2013 Toyota Prius. How can I live with myself? It's just so 2013! hahaha!
3:31 - Dryers today are working with a Heat Pump, so consumption should be low. But the question about the Dryer is: If you have a big house and ground, why do you need it (wasting energy?)
Great mini interview of sorts! I didn't realize how much there was to the solar. I'm in North Carolina, which wasn't on the map you showed, does that mean I'm not even eligible for their power walls yet? Also, a refresh only makes the newer cars even better than his, which then lowers the value even more on his.
As someone that has purchased 4 Powerwalls, it CAN power your entire home. You just have to own enough of them, to do so. The amount depends on how much your home draws and what you want to power. In the configuration I have them in, it can power the entire home for around 40 hours.
Kim, I’m very surprised you haven’t gone solar. 2019 is a golden year for solar considering the tax breaks and panel/microinverter prices. What are you waiting for?
One other comment about cleaning solar panels. I am 61 and I climb up on my roof once a month to knock the dust and pigeon poop off. Gives me about 1 extra kW. They don’t probably need that much cleaning but, hey, I’m cheap.
So once you pay for the solar panels, electricians, and the packs, you save $90 a month. Im guessing the install is somewhere around $15 000. Forget about maintenance, having to replace the shingles with panels in the way and whatever else, it would take about 13 years to get your money back. I'll stick with efficient diesels for now. We will get there with electric, but not yet
Solar and Powerwall are scalable. If his energy demand is to charge EVs, run HVAC, and clothes dryer all at the same time then just install a larger system. Another option is to use more energy efficient appliances such as a dryer/washer combo. The dream is to be 100% energy independent. The ability to live and travel on your own electricity sounds great! Oh and Model S is still better than any other new ICE car out there :)
if they're scalable.....then the utility would just install a grid scale one at a price you could never compete with...they dont because it doesnt work and doesnt make money. why would you want a powerwall for anything other than an emergency?
Great info on return with solar. I live in Atlanta so it was really informative. Pollin is HORRIBLE here.. I own Model 3 and still dont understand Mike's rationalle for getting BMW?? The OTA updates are awesome and if pd for FSD, no other car compares . IMHO..
u enjoyed the car when u drove it, u want to sell it’s your choice...Tesla is always improving and refreshing their cars...like Apple lunches new iPhones and the old phone value drops like crazy, so if u have that logic, the company will just stop improving and ur car can maintain its value. u enjoyed the product ahead of others, that’s the plus of been an pioneer consumer, if u care about value...buy an antique would be better I’d say.
Brilliant, no holds barred, an article telling the facts clearly and concisely. Thank you both for the opportunity to see how life really goes when you achieve your goals in this game. The financials are so very important to our choices as we go forward.
Bear in mind that much of what this guy is saying applies to his state, which is quite backwards on many of these issues. In other states there IS net metering, you CAN charge from the grid etc. This impacts everything, including his claim that a powerwall has a 20 year payback. That's not true if you are in a state with proper incentives, and if you are using your powerwall to charge your EV at night, etc.
@@jasonfournier I disagree that it's just a backup battery. If you have two Powerwalls, 10 kW is plenty of continuous power for most homes, including running most standard appliances. And 26 kWh is 24 hours worth of energy supply for most homes. That is enough to cover your daily driving needs in an EV, or to comfortably power your home all night long. That represents a real dollar value that you pocket every month. It sounds like he ran up a huge expense installing tons of panels in odd places on a shady roof, in a state with awful regulations, and didn't get the results he liked. It's not the typical experience at all.
Just want to give you example how it works abroad. I installed the panels, in Poland last year. Whole project was subsidized so we pay like 40% of actual cost of it, we also have a solar water heater installed. But we couldn't use PV panels until we have a new contract with power company and our meter have to be changed for the new type that measures energy taken from a grid and energy produced by PV Panels. Energy produced and not utilized in home, going to a grid as a storage device with 80% loss. So for every 100 kWh send to a grid we get back only 80 kWh. We also have a billing period two times a year in July and January, excess energy sended to a grid and not used before end of a billing period is a present for a power company. And a one more thing, converter works only when it get power from a line. If power is cut off we could not produce power from a PV panels it's a kind of a protection mentioned in this video, but work little bit different.
Where I live (also in Georgia) I get power from an EMC (instead of Georgia Power). We can't sell power back to the EMC, which makes the payback on these nearly impossible, which is a big bummer.
Maybe I was a little crazy, because I got solar panels and a Powerwall for our little house (1200 square feet). But I love seeing that we are producing 99 percent of our power. Our A/C has never drained the Powerwall, but we are tucked up into a hillside on a hill and we don't need to use a lot. In the winter the combination of using the heat -- which draws more electricity -- and the darker days, will probably result in using power from the grid.
Important to realise that if you have partial shading on some of your panels and have a normal inverter, all of the panels will produce at the rate of the shaded panel. If you have microinverters (a small inverter that is attached to each panel), each panel will produce independently and not be reduced because one of the panels is shaded.
You probably should have said this is for Ga only. Sounds like Ga. is not very friendly to solar. Here in La. it's a one for one swap for power. My solar pays for it self. As far as the Tesla cars, I would suggest don't be an early adopter. I have a 2015 Model S and still love it. I knew exactly what I was getting and knew there was going to be advancements, that doesn't stop me from being jealous.
Price Sicard sounds like he’s a person with more money than sound judgment (at least in this case) who threw money at the system with little to no initial research. He spent tons of $ on panels with odd placement on a house with terrible topography for solar, in a state with very few benefits, and setting up the system to take advantage of the ITC without understanding the consequences (energy storage has to come from renewable resources aka no grid charging). His argument that Tesla releasing a new S would somehow positively impact the value of his current S is also laughable (btw old Teslas hold value better than their ICE counterparts in the same segment). And saying why couldn’t Tesla upgrade the S and X at the same time as releasing and ramping up the 3 shows me he’s out of touch with reality.
Agree, good points. Here in Arizona, we have net-metering and most states have net-metering. And agree on the model S, it's a great car and holds its value just fine.
Still, in his autonomous driving talk he did recently he also talked about converting almost all the powerwall lines to model 3 pack lines because they can get cells for the powerwall from other manufacturers as they don't have the same safety requirements
He talks specifically about this and why he chose to utilize the east side based on his data. Not sure if it was featured prominently here or on the patreon only footage.
OMG! Those birds singing. Feels so good! It sounds so relaxing and sounds like everything's good and well. I want to live in an area like that and get away from this collapsing world.
Comment on the essential loads. I have two power walls and a 15 kW solar system. And those two power walls provide a whole home back up. If the grid is down, my house can run on solar and power walls combined. Which could provide in the vicinity of 20 kW. But if it’s at night. Then I’m limited to 10 kW. So you can have those other items on the system. You just need to be smart about what you run or else you will trip breakers. Or you can have them on a sub panel that kicks off, but you can actually run everything with the just the PowerwallSupportNA, just not all at once.
Yes Kim, I would like to see more about solar panels and power walls of any kind and brand. Next to that I would like to see more about the development of non/ solid state batteries of any brand. Maybe you can show us something Chinese of those things. Chinese are way ahead of the Western world with those developments. Look at Build Your Dream, in short BYD for example.
I live in FL and have 1650 square feet home. I have 29 on the SW roof. I’m waiting for TECO to install the new meter. My company Energy Solutions Direct out of Largo, Fl has estimated that with that number of panels I will produce 100% of my energy needs over 12 months. My solar loan is $134 per month for twelve years. My average TECO bill is $125 per month. So in 12 years I will have my panels paid off and will pay TECO $18.00 per month! ESD suggested not adding a solar wall or even another panel if I purchase a new Model 3. They said it would be more financially sound to charge my Tesla Model 3 during the day (we’re retired) when we’re producing the most electricity and if we need additional power just buy it from TECO.
Unless your panels are almost completely blocked by dirt, grim, pollen, etc. then there is very little reason to pay someone to come and clean your panels. I can see how it is going to become a money making scheme for new companies however.
Their are many people here that devalue this video . Yes a timid look at the reasoning and personal preferences, But step back look at the technology the options, he and many of you have at our ( not mine) fingertips. We all are on the cusp of the future .... Just be thankful for a moment. I'm in ahhh of it and am happy for him and you!
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i have a mouse
Washing panels?? Not me. I put a ceramic coat on my panels 3 years ago. Look as good as new. Nothing sticks.
Brooo, you can definitely wash those solar panels yourself. Buy a power washer, and grab a ladder. I believe in you!
Lol
hey if u got money u just chalk it up to an extra expense i guess lol
He’s a California transplant so they are taught at a young age that doing home care is hard work and scary
Rich since a kid so he doesn't know that. Did you hear his complain about the car or the fact he put panel after the chimney just because it looks nice. 😂🤦♂️
It might just be legal stuff that they decided to say this in the video. Anyone can decide for themselves.
I don't follow the logic here about how a model s and x refresh would protect the value of older s and x models.... wouldn't that make the older models even less desirable and subsequently even more devalued?
Agree. It just meant when he sold the S he had no desire to buy another one.
I agree
True, a refresh does nothing to the current value of your car. The only things affecting resale values are well-known recalls on the model, too many cars available for sale, ie, over supply or company announcing bankruptcy. All large luxury sedans are seeing lower resale value as there's too much inventory available in the used car market.
Total nonsense. He is pretty much having a tantrum because the new Model 3 has slightly better tech than his older Model S? How dare Tesla work constantly to improve their cars. I would bet this guy was one of those kids that would complain when one of his siblings got three more peas on their plate.
Seriously. Break down his comments. He is upset that his Model S--which is still far superior to every other car from *every* other brand--is not quite as modern as Tesla's newer Model 3 and that he pretty much feels betrayed or neglected by Tesla. He literally said...they should mention Model S owners at the factory tours. The level of selfish pettiness on display here is a little bit soul crushing to me.
@@genephipps6421 I totally agree and hope that Kim doesn't waste her time talking with this schlump again.
Why am I watching this... I don’t even have a house
Jaja same
Damn... same lol 😂
Smiley Jpg I do
Just aim for the best in your situation. Idc you work at McDonald's, aim to be the manager. If you work at a plant, aim to be a lead and so on. You keep that mindset everything will fall in place. I'm only 25 I have a house and 3 cars now. And I came from nothing. Just stay focus
Voe 88 Im actually 21 and 3 semesters away from finishing college. Im also thinking about getting my Phd in physics. Not sure if I want a house anytime soon, I feel like it would be too much work.
This guy live an a different reality. There are so many of his point that are no an issue at all.
Ikr
exactly. He wants to change the world without changing his habits. When you use solar you need to rethink how you do things.
Hazel Large ur ten years old or don’t understand reality. We need more and more power if we are to move away from gas. Simple math
Rich people do a lot of dumb things with their money at least he's doing dumb things that are good for the environment
@@justinjones5281 that's the point. There are a lot of things we don't need- like a clothes dryer, that use a lot of electricity. If you want to go solar, you need to downsize your consumption, at least until you are rich like Musk. BTW, I'm quite a bit over 10. Been round the sun a good few times.
Imagine thinking you can't possibly live with driving a car becasue "The ergonomics are from 2011, just SO OLD."
Just... What?
He seems like the kind of person who fills a void in his life with material possessions.
He should get a load of the "ergonomics" of my '97 Suburban! Lol It's a brick!
lol you should see my 02 civic, this dude would have a stroke if he had to drive that every day ahahhaha
i love my 22 year old bmw
I drive a skyline and the interior is still stock, That is supper old and I still love it
I don't get rid of cars every 3 years, so his reasoning is lost on me.
Rob Ostry doesn't sound like he does either. It's an emotional issue. When you pay full retail for an S and a few years later others are getting something better or updated and paying less, it grates on you. I understand. New one has better motors, better styling, better FSD and computer and new buyers paying less. Oh, the march forward of technology.
He's very annoying.
he is not representative of most people. Since when does anyone look at a car purchase as an investment? They always deprecate. Even when you spend more, they just lose bigger chunks of value. That is just reality, no matter what anyone at Tesla tells you.
Dan Cobb people that are smart about how they spend their money think of cars as an investment. Yes, of course, they all depreciate. But you can also buy a car that has better resale value. That’s how I was able to get my M3. I’m not rich, but I saved and had good resale value on my car, putting a big chunk of change towards my M3.
I have a 91 Nissan primera, owned it since 98 and done over half a million kms in it. Was 7k back then to buy and with all the clutches, brakes, services etc it's still just under 25k for the last 20 years driving. So I can drive my car in theory for 80years for the same price as 1 new tesla. I think I'm onto something as it's around 1k a year which to me is very cheap transport. She's not fast or all that pretty but does the job I need it for.
Elon musk has said several times to either disbelief or surprising lack of interest that Teslas are designed to last way longer than typical cars.
They weren't designed for the every 3 year crowd, and some will be disappointed. I am a 10-15 year type owner and very happy with the strategy.
me too... I usually keep a car a minimum of 10 years. However the achilles heel of EV's IMHO is resale and will always be.
Same here! Still got my 09 Altima and I baby that thing like crazy. Still love it but soon will get an EV. Crossing fingers on a Tesla
A car is like a house on wheels. It takes you to places while keeping you safe. And like all houses, you want to hold onto it for as long a possible.
Then again, I have the mentality of "use it till it breaks."
Elon says a bunch of shit. Most of it he doesn't live up to though.
That's good because if I'm ever going to trade in my Suburban, it's gonna have to be for something with as much longevity.
There is no logical reason to consider depreciation as a factor when buying a car. A car ALWAYS depreciates. A car is not an investment. It's an expense...every time. So just buy the thing and drive it until it won't drive any more.
Dustin Dawind their definitely is a reason to consider depreciation values. I’m pretty sure very little people keep the same car until it completely dies. On another note spends on the make and model of the car deprivation values are different, for example Ford sells cars and trucks. The cars depreciate a lot more than a truck does as well as diesel vs gas. So if your purchasing a car and your looking for a sedan you can purchase a Ford Fusion or a Honda civic. The Ford Fusion will depreciate in value a lot sooner and much lower then the civic. In economics depreciation rate and value is the key to the cars life and price. So it indeed is very logical to consider depreciation when purchasing a new car.
Dustin Dawind they actually don’t all depreciate lol. Get the right car and you can sell it for much more later.
Actually 1 brand that actually can be an investment, Volvo if you get repairs from the dealership 95% of your repairs are covered for life. Things that they won't cover are items that are expected to wear like tires, belts, hoses but dam near everything else is covered like motors, transmission and etc. For life. Can't beat that
I use mine for work 80% of the time.
Don't know much about cars I see. The cars that depreciate the most are unreliable one's. People want to sell them because they keep breaking down and no one wants to pay for them because the reputation of being junk. Example, range Rover. Unless it's leased.
The problem here is the state. And fossil fuel protection laws. Also not allowing Tesla to operate in the state for installing.
Roscoe James It’s not that simple. It’s Tesla’s choice is to not get licensed staff in that state as anyone can get licensed for solar. They chose not to.
Net metering is a tricky thing when you need to manage your grid. The utilities base costs and demand don’t change but then they have to give a massive discount to those people while everyone else shoulders the higher cost. They still have to maintain lines to someone who pays no money. Imagine 10% of homes being that way. Germany has had many problems with this and they have large utility solar farms not just households. The issue is the electricity just isn’t in demand until later in the day when solar production is waning and staring and stopping production is tricky and only possible with gas plants. Until economical storage is possible (current batteries do not meet this need) net metering just doesn’t work and raises the costs for everyone else or once it hits critical mass, everyone.
You are right. Not trying to make this political but Progressive policy states like California make it much easier
@Nospam Spamisham The truth about panel life is around 30 years, not 10. And the truth about recycling is that it's just getting ramped up. Why? Because the largest crop of installed panels is just starting to degrade to the point of replacement. So your argument would be to continue poisoning our air with coal? Have oil spills in our rivers? And I guess we should shut down Duracell and Energizer because they're most certainly a product end of life mess for the environment. And I guess you're someone that believes wind power causes cancer.
@@AlexlfmIs that confirmed? Tesla has decided to go against the way they've operated in every other state and not get a license for the state? GA isn't limiting them, just as has happened with their online car dealerships and brick and mortar service centers around the country in states blocking innovation and doing their job to protect the fossil fuel industry and the association of auto dealerships? Which is what's happening in every other state that's trying to prop up dying industries.
The thing with electricity generation is that peak demand is hard to manage because it has to be generated on demand. Base power is easy because it's basically flat and predictable 24/7. When does solar generate power? Right through the middle of the day when peak demand is highest. Solar makes peak easier to manage and cheaper to produce because it lowers the height of the peaks in the demand curve.
That's why most utilities have been lobbying Congress to expand solar (with some tweaks to make the grid sustainable, like separating power from infrastructure on the bill) and to expand the EV incentives because most people are charging at night when demand is lowest, and lowering the peak demand while increasing the base demand flattens the demand curve and makes everything about generating electricity simpler and cheaper in the long run.
That's not to say there aren't changes that need to be made, or that some governments or utilities aren't badly mismanaged, but both solar and electric vehicles are a net benefit to the utilities once they quit living in the 1970s and adapt.
he sorta countered his own argument there, "what can you buy now that is an equivalent to the Model S?... nothing" and like was mentioned by Elon, there is STILL nothing better from anyone else that even meets the specs of a 2013 Model S! So I don't see the problem. Just stop checking resale value and enjoy your car, and hold onto it until something worth trading it for comes along, don't dump it and then complain nothing is new... Well the batteries just got upgraded, you can go 370 miles in a Model S now... it'll be another 7 years before anyone else matches that at this rate. Or just get a Model 3 and accept that it's not a $100,000 car and enjoy it.
That's right. I guess if you don't drive your Tesla it is a very bad investment. I'll have 200K on mine by next year. Saved a whole lot of gas and enjoyed the heck out of it. If I had any other car and put 200K on it it would be just about worthless. I still have 4 more years of warranty, and only 7% battery capacity decrease. Its a heck of a value if you use it.
@@rogerheuckeroth7456 how much money do you think you have saved just in gas?
*the batery didn’t. Change the motor and some other parts changed
I really enjoyed the sound of the birds throughout the video.
I get the "Alicia" but why 72293?
Why not 72292 or 72294? 🤔😝
haha I actually live in Georgia and once I saw his house I was like that is such a Georgia looking house. And yea I am not sure about other states but the birds in Georgia are always chirping. Very pleasant to wake up to.
@@Name-jw4sj He obviously lives in a gentrified community. Most houses out of the city dont look like this.
RE: Depreciation. A car is NOT an investment, it is a depreciating asset AND every car goes down in value by more than what the owner thinks it should.
Truth be know, Tesla has done more than any other EV company to try to keep the value of their cars at a reasonable number.
Sadly most people think their car should be worth more after three years than is reasonable or reality.
To say that the Tesla interior is 'so 2011' is failing to recognize that in 2012 when they were first hitting the market they were so far ahead of the competition that
even an early Tesla still looks so 2018, not 2011. IMHO :)
Only certain limited edition cars can hold or appreciate in value
Ok i prefer the look of the model s interior myself.
Ever heard of Ferrari 458 speciale? F12 TDF? Oh is too expensive? Do you know how much a 1969 Chevy Corvette is worth now compare to when it just came out? I must admit, most cars are depreciation assets but if you’re very knowledgeable they can be a gold mine.
ram 1901 my car is my main source of making money. It’s really an asset for most people considering it makes it really easy for them to get to work and make way more than the car costs.
@@fringestream990 going to work and coming home in your vehicle does not count as business use here in Australia. and i agree to that logic. otherwise everything you do can be reasoned to be a source of making money.
I think Michael is one of the very few Tesla owners who doesn't get excited about the software updates and make you feel like you've gotten a whole new car.
A lot of the software updates are just things that other car companies already offer out of the box, have no need of, or have fringe benefits. Autopilot being the exception.
Upd Late Who else offers Sentry Mode with 3 cameras keeping watch. Who else has increased range and power with an OTA? These options u say are available on every car we’re not free, u paid for them. Check the window sticker if u don’t believe me. I would bet u have no experience with a Tesla and r speaking from ignorance. The guy in the video wants Tesla to give him something no other car manufacturer does. He wants Tesla to protect his investment. What other car manufacturer does that?
A lot of people are compelled to chase the latest shiny new thing. Not his fault, just the conditioning the marketing companies have conditioned him into.
I think he said he did recognize no other car makers had a shiny new thing that is any good and that the model 3 is the best shiny new thing that is also better than his model S. But he is sad, because it is expensive to keep buying the latest shiny new thing? Ya
@goran stojanovic Thank you? if I may say, your command of the English language is excellent!
@@updlate4756 Given their name, I'd say it truly is excellent. Far better than your grasp on the auto industry.
The depreciation of his BMW X5 eDrive is way worse than a Tesla Model S...Not to mention not every BMW service center offers support for eDrive vehicles.
Jake Hansen 100% percent true we have experienced exaktly that with our i3 rex.
And I dont understand why the model S not getting updated make his old Model S depreciate more...isnt it the opposite? If Tesla refreshes the Model S then the older model S will look even older and depreciate more...I am confused
Elongated Muskrat I totally agree!
@@voltaire229 completely true. This is what I was thinking. A model s and x refresh would have prevented sales slowdowns for those vehicles. Right now the 370 mile range on a new model s is just hands down incredible and none of the competition comes even close
@@voltaire229 no. You aren't confused.
*His argument*
_”I’m rich and I love luxury, and Tesla isn’t luxurious enough for me”_
No he's rich because he focused on school and became smart to outline potential updates in the items he purchases.
So rich.
He couldn’t just build his own home with those amenities added in. Instead of retrofitting an older house to the point he’s “painted” the electrical panels.
Here in Brazil we have a different system. You generate credits, does´t matter the price of the energy that you produced, just the amount of KWh, if you made 10Kwh in the day and you consume 10 at night, in the end of the month you will gonna have a $0 energy bill.
not scalable and doesnt work...100kwh used during noon is not worth the same as 100kwh used at night, thats why tesla owners usually charge at night, lower rates due to low demand
@@Richard-ie1ifnot every country has the variable tariff. Variable tariff is more applicable in case of colder and usually developed countries, whose per capita consumption is order of magnitude higher than that of countries like Brazil, India. So, yes, here in India too, the net metering system works just as Brazil. And it scaled up pretty good even with a huge population.
@@Amuzic_Earth brazil doesnt have a significant % of its grid as solar. 1kwh at noon is not worth 1kwh at night. eventually utilities would not be able to eat the price difference
Richard Roberson powerwall does not charge on demand from a grid
Максим Зубов because it’s a useless product that’s handicapped currently
Most of the problems described are due to the fact you live in Georgia.
rwdplz1 live in Georgia can confirm. I am salty every day (mostly because pollen)
2:23 His information is not entirely accurate. I opted to have my Powerwall's run the entire home. It all depends on how many you have, and how much load your home uses at one time.
4:59 Have you tried washing the panels with 'Windex outdoor'? It attaches to your hose and you can wash from the ground or a ladder.
He doesn't seem the type of person that would know how to use a hose.
NO, the roof is a scary place...lol... really?
Lmao I thought the same thing. Like come on dude.
I understood him to be referring to a single powerwall, when he said "a powerwall". I took that to mean a single powerwall cannot provide enough amperage to run everything in the house at once. Multiple powerwalls are necessary for many homes depending on how much demand you have... Although, sure, I would just climb up there and wash them myself. It's a good point, but c'mon dude. Get a ladder.
Cause it's scary. That dude lost his man card and he only gets to see his balls when his wife moves them from one purse to the other.
This video was making me sad until I read the comments 😁
Praba992 he is the king of complaining about pointless “problems”, lol. Poor guy is getting pollen on his solar panels 😢 the roof is scary.
His wife's boyfriend can make show him how to use a ladder
*Insulation might be cheaper.*
Solar panels are nice and a very good investment, when the lowest hanging fruit like weak insulation is fixed.
I'm definitely reconsidering the value of a full fill with under the roof expansion foam and a nice layer of insulation panels across the stringers. I've already got an ice box effect downstairs in the fully finished "basement" and it would be awesome in Georgia to have no problem controlling the temperature gradient upstairs as well. (20 years? ....ah, nevermind and sorry. I expect those battery cells to be long gone before break even) Electric companies? if you want some storage depth to stabilize the grid, it's time to pony up where it's desirable to have surge storage near your transient loads. I'd be happy to donate a few square feet and up to my nominal height restrictions to earn a discount on my bill!
I foam-encapsulated our attic, encapsulated the crawl space, added foam to the outside walls, and replaced the single pane windows and back door with good double-panes. Replaced the 15-year-old AC with a 16-SEER heat pump. We keep our temps reasonable - about 79 in the summer (Dallas) and 71 in the winter. Our power bills are tiny - maybe $500/year. I'd love to get a PV system, but it would just be for the "gee-whiz" factor.
Efficiency >> production.
I like it when a interview actually talks about the bad side and the good side not just simple bad side and just talk random stuff.
Wow, so many generalizations and assumptions from this Michael guy, it's ridiculous. I've worked in the solar and battery storage industry for many years and yes, you can power your house with 1 Powerwall, if your consumption is low enough. It DOES NOT matter the size of house, it's the energy consumption. Not everyone has AC, like myself, I live in a cool climate, at 7,000', and never need it and with all LED lights and EnergyStar appliances, our power consumption is very low. I have a 5kW solar array and produce 130% of my home power and haven't had an electric bill in 2 years. And his opinions on the Model's S & X should have been cut out as they're bogus. I just shopped for a small SUV and every luxury SUV brand available, except Tesla, looks like the 1992 models. The Model X is still, 10+ years ahead of anything out there. Yes, I'm sure Tesla is working to refresh the S & X but they're putting the majority of their resources to the 3 and Y, along with the Semi, which are all the real profit makers. And lastly, the resale value of the Model's S & X are pretty strong, in comparison to Cadillac, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes and every other luxury brand cars, especially on the larger sedans which all have LOUSY resale values as few people want them, anymore. Resale value on the X is very strong. I wouldn't use this guy as an expert without interviewing someone else, for counter info. But, we love you Kim.
I think he was considering his house with zero compromises. Sure, someone with a gas clothes dryer, uses a clothes line or fossil fuel heating may be fine. Or geothermal HVAC may be a good investment there. What do you use for heating?
@@greennewdeal5539 Agreed. Funny how he gripes about the Model S resale value, and drones on about nonsense and the last clip you see an ICE BMW in the garage. Obviously, this guy is a fair-weather fan of EV's as he'll go back to a POS ICE car after owning a Tesla.
Russell Fine Arts I’ve been thinking about going solar + battery storage as well. Generally speaking, how well would this work in Florida where the cost is approximately 12 cents per kilowatt? I’m currently plugging in my CMax energi daily, so I do have an additional draw along with the typical household appliances, AC, .etc. We’re beginning to see huge solar farms, used to power thousands of homes, but at the residential level, we’re far from where we could be.
So your an expert on solar.. then maby instead of buying this bullshit you'd just make your own solar generator n battery bank for a fraction of the price..
I completely agree you could run house on a powerwall.. lol..people use n waste way too much energy
I have non-Tesla Solar plus 3 Powerwalls and I love it! Perfect complement for my Model 3 and my wife’s Y (when it arrives).
why did you buy 3 powerwalls? they dont save any money and their price is falling fast. for 4 of them 32,000$ 52kwh you can get a model 3 with 50kwh and an entire car of parts for free
Richard Roberson moron
Richard Roberson jealous much?
I, too, have 3 Powerwall's. During a grid outage they'll keep me going 100% for 12-18 hours, or many days if I cut down on my household usage by 40%.
@@Richard-ie1if For places which have tarrifs they can be used to power the home during the evening hours when electricity is more expensive. For places prone to power outages they are great for keeping a home running for days. Also, prices have increased since I purchased mine.
he cant get on the roof cuz its scary.....
Fr
The type of "man" of this age in time
He can just use a jet wash.
Justin Franzen for real I stopped caring about his complaining when I heard he has to pay someone to go on his roof...
The only thing solar panels can't recharge is his manliness...
Did not quite understood the rationale that by rather updating/refreshing the Model S ... his 2012 Model S would have kept better its value ... really? ... to me it sounds the other way around ... once they refresh the Model S ... those older Model S will be worth even less.
Am I missing something here???
He would basically buy the same car again, which in 3 years from now will look way worse compared to 3 year-old M3s or the refreshed Model S.
No you’re not missing anything lol.
Nop you did not miss something, they did refresh the model s and he expect that his 2012 model s would keep it's value. He is just mad that he won't get the same amount money back, I think he thought that if you buy a tesla is like buying a house, when it gets old remodel it and sell it at the same price or more.
No. He seems to suffer from soyboy.
Someone skipped microeconomics class..
I have six powerwalls installed and 112 solar panels to fill them. They run the whole house no problem. I am “off grid” eight months of the year saving me £10k p.a.
Love it!
His reason for not liking Tesla anymore is kinda dumb tbh.
Rurushu it may be dumb, but he's not wrong either.
Rurushu your grammar is terrible
The man changed car as often as most people change their phones. That’s pretty irresponsible financially, technologically and ecologically.
My model S lost over 25K in depreciation in the last 8 months. I'm also super upset about it. :(
@@danielhenre8878 That Model S will last a lot longer than traditional cars. Why sell it?
you seriously can not clean your panels by yourself because its scary? that is sad...
Another example of how our species is de-evolving lol. We went from surviving extreme heat with no AC and cold winters with a cave and a fire and we could support ourselves for food and clothing, to needing to pay someone to clean our solar panels lol.
Although I have no problem getting on my roof to clean it, That's a pretty steep roof. And he'd be up there wrangling with a hose that could trip him up, and the roof would be wet and slippery from all the washing. If you have the money, but don't have the safety equipment, expertise, or confidence to get up there, its probably smart to get a professional.
Every point he makes is equally ridiculous. He's a dipshit
Common' guys of course im just jealous of him having not just one tesla wallbatterie no he has two....and obviously to much money to let the solarpanels cleaned
Jesus Christ you guys are so jealous
Ah, rich people enjoying themselves
Angry mob grows bigger and Im lovin it :)
These panels are quite affordable actually, someone is jelly
Join the club don’t hate
@@MRWTrades That's a pretty relative statement.... They are not generally affordable to the general workforce. That's a fact. Solar in general is not even a possibility.
This is part of the American Dream, isn't it?
The cost of solar is the install. In December I put up a 7kw system by myself. I used all commercially available mounting (Ironridge, Solaredge inverter and optimizers). It was rainy in December here in Austin and it took about a week working 3 hours a day. I spent $5400 or 80 cents a watt. I had estimates after tax credit and rebate of $3 per watt or $21000. I did it as a fun project and something I have been thinking about for 10 years. Since December 13 to April 30, they have produced 2.7MW or 2700KW hours of energy. Installation and government BS is 75% of the cost. I decided to go without inpections and permits as it is a right to work state and I have been working with electricity for 50 years. Everything is up to code as I also know how to read codes and have talked to electricians about it. Here electricity is only 10c per kw so in 4.5 months I have generated $270 in electricity with about half feeding the grid. I am tempted to set the meter to read production as the standard meters have that capability but not yet. Last week I was putting out 32kw per day for 4 of 7 days.Today it has been on/off rain and cloudy but has produced 16kw. What I have found is during a sunny day I feed the grid and my sense system shows zero grid useage for most of the day even with the HVAC system on.
I would like to see solar stories. Love your channel and seeing your videos. Watched all of them. KUDOS
Am I the only one that likes the S/X interior so much more than the 3?
Probably
I like the S and X better than the 3. The 3 is kinda ugly.
Luxury brand vs consumer brand. Nobody talks about the facts that the S and X are far superior vehicles. Just that the 3 is much cheaper and goes a long way due to bigger batteries. Granted range is important, but the interiors of the S and X are miles better than the 3. Also much better space, sound, and speed.
The biggest thing for me is the S still has a HUD/Dash. Whereas the 3 only has the big tablet.
@@davidbeppler3032 wow you should work as a salesman for tesla
I think Michael is way off base with his assessment of the valuation of the model X and S. Fact is that traditional ICE vehicles especially luxury vehicles depreciate much faster on average than any of the Tesla’s. I don’t know what year his model S was but Musk has stated that all Tesla vehicles post 10/16 are full self driving capable. With the advent of the Tesla Robotaxi service these vehicles will actually appreciate. Also his logic regarding updates to the model x and s don’t hold water either. The fact that the cars are basically the same hardware will actually help residual values. Think about it when a vehicle is refreshed everyone what’s the new refreshed version and not the older looking feature lacking previous model. As Tesla begins to update the Model X & S you will see greater deprecation of the older models. Even with this new model effect it’s clear that once Tesla gets the software and hardware perfected and regulatory approvals all fully autonomous capable vehicles will actually appreciate in value. If your smart you’ll make deposit on a model Y. By the time they start to produce the Model Y full autonomy most probably will be here or at least highly publicized. In my opinion the price of all Tesla post 10/16 vehicles will then begin to appreciate and those with deposits on model Y’s will be locked in to pre autonomy prices. Easy to make a buck on a small refundable investment.
Right. Michael wants Tesla to make the new S & X's more compelling but that will just reduce his resale value.
eh, generally yes but tesla keep devaluing its own cars. A 2018 February 100D lost 15,000$ in value in a month and then another 4,000$ when the drivetrain got upgraded. 95k car going for some 80k or so now. Ouch, not to mention they didnt get free supercharging despite being scalped.
@@Richard-ie1if Wait, you think Tesla's mistake was giving customers more than they paid for? I agree that is not good business, but really? That is the "problem"? lmao
He seems to keep very good track of his numbers, are you an EV owner? If not I totally trust his thoughts more than yours.
Doug Chappell Yes model X owner and in a previous life a used car dealer long ago 25 years.
lol, you cant wash your own solar panels, grow a pair, and buy a ladder.
Exactly.
or if its too scary just pay someone to go up there once and install some hoses with holes in them, and then just pump some water through once in a while
...or don’t waste your time and just pay someone to do it 🧐
@@grendelum it would take 15 minutes.
the pair that he has isn’t balls, it’s a pair of yeezy’s
Every one assumes buying an electric car is an easy idea, most dream about it (no more gas station trips) but when you see a video like this, took time to even get a power wall installed, it makes you understand the current owners are still in the fore front of the revolution. As he pointed out, with out the people who buy the "expensive" new ones, the company has no way of boosting the eventual sales of the affordable ones to the masses.
Dont be a hater because some can afford the nice new cars, he also mentioned the old ones are losing value, so...go buy a used one and get into electric cars if thats your desire.
Very informative video, thank you.
Shade is covering 90% of his solar panels in almost every shot.
Yeah, the ignorance of how these panels work is staggering in this video. No wonder he is only getting 80 bucks a month savings.
I’ve actually looked at the data on depreciation and the model s is still doing better than other comparable cars with resale value. So yes model 3 did hit their resale value, but the model s and x are still holding their value percentage wise about the same or better comparable to other expensive luxury sedans (5 series 7 series, e class, s class, a6, etc. especially when you consider the $7500 tax credit the original owner received. Many luxury cars have 3 year residuals of 50-60% of msrp. Most 3 year old Tesla’s are doing better than that. So yeah the $ amount of depreciation is high the % isn’t that bad. When you’re buying a 100k$ car you should be aware that expensive cars depreciation much more than cheap economy cars...
Yes, I knew I'd read something similar when he was talking about depreciation.
Don’t let your facts get in the way of his feelings
lack of AP2.0+ hit hard. 2.0+ can be FSD
Some points are incorrect. In fact the Models X and S get Updates. The Model 3 Motors for instance are kind of to be build in for X and S as well, as far as i know. Also i heard about facelifts for X and S. And the FSD Computer is there as an Update for X and S, if some of them don't already have it for latest auto driving improvements. Just try to find this kind of Support in other car manufacturers. Good Luck
I have three powerwalls and we got three so we could run the whole house, including two AC units.
If storm watch is active and you have it enabled it will charge from the grid. I've seen it. Sadly it will start charging when the storm watch is flagged so that may be during peak rates -- but your powerwalls will be charged from the grid.
The powerwall app has settings that allow you to charge (via solar) while the rates are cheap and send solar to the grid and run off batteries when the rates are high. In a netmetered tou plan, I can actually use more than I generate and still generate a credit. This ability to shift when you use grid power is about the only way the powerwalls help pay for themselves.
@Harvey Payne - I had the same experience with "storm watch" mode in California. During the high wind events last year. My Dual PW2 system also charged from the grid when it activated to bring my units to 100% charge.
why did you buy 40kwh of powerwalls for 24,000$ when you can get 50kwh of model 3 and an entire free car for 32,000$? the price of the packs is in freefall and they'll never pay for themselves. shouldnt qualify for the federal subsidy at all.
there is not any location in the US where batteries can profitably arbitrage power rates...if there was the utility would buy a larger more efficient battery than you, not spend half the costs on labor installation, have it centrally located to distribute power and close the delta on night and day rates.....
it doesnt work at the current prices
I am in Texas and Storm Watch has triggered the Powerwall to pull power from grid. It does do a notification on the phone app, but I tend to go in and tell it to stop because there is enough charge on our 2 Powerwalls to last the night and then recharge using Sun next day.
Only time we have had to pull from grid is if there are 3 or more really cloudy days in a row and it is time to recharge the Model 3 even if there isn't enough Sun to do that while also recharging Powerwalls for the night (at slower power generation while it is cloudy).
The Michael guy gave some other misinformation and maybe forgot about the Storm Watch exception or the regulations in his state may not allow even Storm Watch to pull from grid.
"It was designed in 2011. The ergonomics of that vehicle are SO OLD..." what a whiner lmao
ArthurDeCosta first world problems....aww cry me a river.
Right, is he "committed to green energy" or committed to interior refreshes?
Right, seriously. This guy is hilarious. That is still one of the most advanced techie cars. I grew up with 30+ year old machines for my first cars; during the late 90's I drove a 60 falcon built before seat belts were standard, & with a AM radio mounted in a solid steel dashboard. I was just thankful to be driving. Guess it is a matter of perspective. Maybe he should be just a little more grateful that he clearly has so much abundance.
@@ianduncan8121 Despite no major changes since 2012, the interior of the Model S is still modern by any standard. That's how far ahead they were out of the gate.
First world problems.....
How does a Model S Refresh protect the Value of the Vehicles who are already out there (Pre-Refresh)? Makes no sense.
Fair point but vehicles are not appreciating assets and you should never expect them to hold their value, barring outstanding circumstances
@@wbucrash6492 It won't though, that's the "problem" with Autopilot. Once the old models can't be upgraded to the newest Version they become essentially obsolete.
Isn't the depreciation of a luxury sedan (like the Model S) in line with the depreciation of similarly priced equivalent gas powered cars? I understand the goal of wanting Tesla to refresh the Model S and X, but if they refresh those models he would still own one of the pre-refresh models that customers would find less desirable than the new Model S and X?
In other words, the same argument he made that Model 3 is what people are switching to could because it's new could be made about a refreshed Model S and X.
This is exactly what I was thinking through that part of the video.
Exactly I’m confused he doesn’t care about the 20 yr payback for power wall but hates luxury car depreciation lol
its not the refresh its the fact that sales dropped 50% and tesla ate crow and abandoned 10%+ of the margin they enjoyed on the cars. they dropped price by 10,000$+
He probably means the model s as a series is depreciating due to it not being refreshed so its no longer seen as a flagship.
You can run your entire house on just two powerwalls + solar, I've been doing just that. It all depends on your needs and when you use the power. If you're trying to use multiple high demand appliances at the same time either at night, early in the morning or late in the afternoon, then yeah it may not work as you're not working with the extra solar production.
Two powerwalls, as you've stated, can output a constant 10kW. If at solar noon your AC is running and let's assume it's a Saturday so you're home cooking / doing laundry... your draw may very well be over the 10kW constant output rating of the powerwalls, but you're also producing peak power from your solar (or could be), which is likely capable of handling the rest of that load.
So assume your AC is drawing 4kW, dryer is pulling 6kW and stove is pulling another 2kW, that's a total of 12kW, not including anything else so round up to 13kW constant draw.
Your powerwalls might only be able to output a constant 10kW, but as long as your solar is outputting at least 3kW, you're still not drawing from the grid. If your solar is producing 10kW then you'd only be pulling 3kW from the powerwalls, again, still fine.
In the event of a grid outage you'd just have to pay more attention to what you're doing and not overload the system. Went the entire month of March without needing to draw power from the grid so it's definitely possible and doable even for somebody like myself who's in central FL with no utilities other than power (no gas, water, sewer...) so all of our needs are met electrically.
If you know multiple days in advance that a bad storm is going to hit, one of those northern fronts for example, just set your powerwalls to backup only or with 100% reserve. They'll likely be able to charge up over those days leading up to the storm(s), otherwise yes you're relying on the StormWatch function.
Dryer ? Dry your laundry on a line outside. Look at your weather. In the U.K. we are frightened to use the electricity because dryers are expensive to run, and rack up your electric bill. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 The more people who buy Tesla solar system, the cheaper the product becomes.. 👍💜
the irony here is this guy is like "using the suns energy" ... then uses a dryer to dry his cloths rather then the sun :D
Not in Georgia, you can hang your cloths out for 3 days and they'll still be wet. The summer there is like 98% humidity all day.
The humidity is too high in the summers there.
Spend a bit more and get an efficient dryer.
In MN with Excel Energy, I get about 13 cents plus a bonus of 8 cents or about 21cents for stuff sent to the grid. At night, I buy electricity to heat my water for 4 cents and the rest of it for 13 cents.
i guess you prove my point, energy at night is only worth 4 cents, thats the fuel cost of making it when demand is low. thats how much solar power is worth as it doesnt cover the costs of the power plants on cloudy days or any of the transmission lines. kinda unfair that you get 30% federal subsidy and another 60% subsidy on sell back for nearly a 70% subsidy for solar in a state that shouldn't even have solar
depends on too many factors. my electric in cali is 500 per month my gas is 700 per month and my insurance is 225 per month.
i’m buying a model s gas goes to zero.
electric bill goes to zero with 3 power walls. insurance will go to 125
so my situation is i paid 125k total for car and solar roof. (cash)
now i save 1300 per month.
will take 8 years to recoup my investment.
then i profit 1300 per month after.
30 year outlook. around 300k profit.
Until you realize that you'll have to replace your roof one day and all your solar panels will have to be removed and reinstalled. Hope none of them get damaged in the process. Good luck!
Battery life and panels efficiency will go down. No matter what. But it's still profit. An investment to save the planet and your wallet
Michael Greene That's why I'm glad the UK uses tile or slate for roofs, good for a century plus. That shingle shit used in the US is what we reserve for garden sheds and dog kennels.
As he compares what other manufactures did in updating their
cars, let’s also keep in mind that all of them, except for ford, in the US, went
bankrupt…
10:20 this guy complaining that his old Tesla is depreciating because Tesla's new car had significantly advanced in many ways? This just shows how comfortable people have become with corporate "refreshes" of products that change almost nothing but the price tag. He is literally trying to criticize Tesla's innovations by saying that they are TOO innovative.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm willing to bet most of us would love more videos about solar and Powerwall options for our homes. When Michael mentioned that he had a 20 year return on investment on his Powerwalls, I was shocked! I guess that goes to show how different it can be for each person based on each persons electric rates, electric consumption, and state regulations.
Michael's comments about his disappointment about the Model S and X refresh made me think for a bit. He has put more money than I have in Tesla products, so I feel that his perspective does carry some value. Here is where I landed with it: I never thought about the Model S and X refresh until the Model 3 came out. However, a Tesla owner isn't just buying a vehicle with an "outdated" design, they are (1) buying the safest vehicle on the road, (2) they have own an EV with the longest range, (3) they have access to the largest EV charging network in the world, (4) their Tesla continually gets free features via over the air updates and (5) they are apart of a great community of people. I'm alright with the current "outdated" design to gain all the other Tesla benefits that a person wouldn't necessarily get with another EV that has a more "modern" design.
Dang so he’s complaining about how his car went down in resale? How is that shocking? With any type of new car with new tech your previous model is going to depreciate like all cars. Tesla is no different 😂😂😂😂
And he thinks a S/X refresh would help the value of his _old_ car? If anything, it would make it worse. No logic there.
Dude, your Model S dropped so much in value because of the lack of AUTOPILOT 2.0. It wasn't because of the interior or the motors. 2017 Model S will depreciate a LOT slower than that pre-Autopilot 2.0 car.
Noshit.. smfh at people who don't get that
AscendedSaiyan3 obviously. But with some peoplea brain wiring that escapes them. Until it's hardware software is not "real"
Install some hoses turned to the panels. Dirty? Open the faucet for a few seconds, close it. lol
I have two Powerwalls on my home and they are able to power my 4000 sq feet living space home with 2 Central AC units and anything else anybody uses through the night to keep us as 100% self-powered. The only electrical equipment they can't support is plugging in our Model 3 to charge when there isn't enough Sun to handle majority of that power need. Our solar system is sized at 14.56 kWh which while Sun is out is sufficient to charge our Model 3 on 40amp 220v circuit without needing any extra energy from either Powerwall or Grid. Anything over 12 kWh during peak sun hours should be able to while running everything else at home including AC units.
So the Powerwalls are not just for "essentials". It is true that they can't support EV charging at 40+amp from 220v circuits after the Sun is down because they simply don't have that much capacity stored being only 5kWh each while the car can store a few times more than that, but they can handle pretty much anything else we use between Sun cycles. To clarify, the Powerwalls can charge our EV, but it depletes them really fast without adding much range and that would force pulling power from Grid during night, so we just manage when we charge our car to when the Sun is out.
Note: Our central heating, water heating, stove, and dryer all use Natural Gas burners.
Tesla Powerwalls saved me many times.! There are always power outages in my studio's area when it gets too hot out, and they always kick on and even recharge with solar at the same time. The tech support is amazing, thank you Tesla!
Wow! Super informative video. Michael thank you for sharing your real world knowledge with the Tesla community. Kim, keep up the great work your guys are doing! 👏👏👏
There is some misinformation here. You can actually run a/c, washer and dryer etc., you just have to watch the loads. Also, yes, powerwalls do charge from the grid, it depends on the setting you have it on. And also, now it has a feature called Storm Watch, which is activated if a storm is going your way and it fully charges your powerwall from the grid if needed.
so he's basically just salty bc he decided to stick with a higher end Tesla than the model 3
He's not wrong about the S and X having some dated aspects, but I don't get how he doesn't see what tesla is doing. They're trying to sell 3s right now, and the S was always billed as being a first adopter vehicle. Yes it needs a refresh, but from a business standpoint nothing should take any shine from the 3 right now until demand drastically slows down (which may be very soon or here already)
I think he is salty because he wasted money on an i3. Its a trash vehicle. So expensive for an electric gokart
There was one point that I think should have been better explained and that is that the pros and cons of solar and Powerwall change greatly depending on the state you live in.
Additional videos with those details and more was reserved for the Patreon only footage.
absolutely.
@@ItsKimJava Seems that changes the subject matter a lot
mostly cons. if energy arbitrage worked it would scale with size and utilities would be the most competitive player in the game as they should be. currently its a novelty luxury product and nothing more
"Freerange kids, it's a whole different thing."
Most of us just called that childhood. Helicopter parenting is the "different thing." Lol
I am putting solar in my house which is on 40 acres in Arizona. It is off-grid despite having the juice at the southern edge of the property. I am installing the panels three feet over the ground. Also, I'm putting a gutter along the lower edge of the panels and sending the water to a partially subterranean tank for use in the garden.
Awesome early adopter who doesn’t get what being an early adopter means.
I can barely watch this, this guy is all over the place.
Stairwave He’s insufferable. Really, the ergonomics? Such a whiner.
Love how he’s talking about energy. He knows enough. Love the enphase microinverters and tesla powerpacks! Using his powerpacks for peak shaving and saving costs in regions without net metering is smart. Going with non Tesla energy storage products (i.e. LG Chem batteries, etc) will drastically reduce wait times, since they are readily available anywhere!
9:08 "I'm sitting in a car that is 2011 design. The ergonomics of that vehicle are so old ...." hahaha! I drive a 2013 Toyota Prius. How can I live with myself? It's just so 2013! hahaha!
I got you beat, my 1999 Chevy has a cassette player. I'm the original owner too!
Chevy2U I’ll do you one better-1998 Accord. Running like a dream.
3:31 - Dryers today are working with a Heat Pump, so consumption should be low. But the question about the Dryer is: If you have a big house and ground, why do you need it (wasting energy?)
Great mini interview of sorts! I didn't realize how much there was to the solar. I'm in North Carolina, which wasn't on the map you showed, does that mean I'm not even eligible for their power walls yet? Also, a refresh only makes the newer cars even better than his, which then lowers the value even more on his.
As someone that has purchased 4 Powerwalls, it CAN power your entire home. You just have to own enough of them, to do so. The amount depends on how much your home draws and what you want to power. In the configuration I have them in, it can power the entire home for around 40 hours.
Kim, I’m very surprised you haven’t gone solar. 2019 is a golden year for solar considering the tax breaks and panel/microinverter prices.
What are you waiting for?
We touch on this in our patreon only video this week. It has to do with our HOA not allowing them at the moment. We’re fighting it though.
@@ItsKimJava If you haven't already, check with the state or county. They may have rules which supersede any HOA rules regarding solar.
It's ugly, expensive and ineffective in many parts of the world.
One other comment about cleaning solar panels. I am 61 and I climb up on my roof once a month to knock the dust and pigeon poop off. Gives me about 1 extra kW. They don’t probably need that much cleaning but, hey, I’m cheap.
So once you pay for the solar panels, electricians, and the packs, you save $90 a month. Im guessing the install is somewhere around $15 000. Forget about maintenance, having to replace the shingles with panels in the way and whatever else, it would take about 13 years to get your money back. I'll stick with efficient diesels for now. We will get there with electric, but not yet
That's if if you plan on owning tesla cars
Tesla comes and removes the panels at no cost. I asked that question when ordering mine.
Solar and Powerwall are scalable. If his energy demand is to charge EVs, run HVAC, and clothes dryer all at the same time then just install a larger system. Another option is to use more energy efficient appliances such as a dryer/washer combo. The dream is to be 100% energy independent. The ability to live and travel on your own electricity sounds great! Oh and Model S is still better than any other new ICE car out there :)
if they're scalable.....then the utility would just install a grid scale one at a price you could never compete with...they dont because it doesnt work and doesnt make money. why would you want a powerwall for anything other than an emergency?
Great info on return with solar. I live in Atlanta so it was really informative. Pollin is HORRIBLE here..
I own Model 3 and still dont understand Mike's rationalle for getting BMW?? The OTA updates are awesome and if pd for FSD, no other car compares . IMHO..
scott i He probably wants a shiny new car every 2-3 years to compensate for something...
u enjoyed the car when u drove it, u want to sell it’s your choice...Tesla is always improving and refreshing their cars...like Apple lunches new iPhones and the old phone value drops like crazy, so if u have that logic, the company will just stop improving and ur car can maintain its value. u enjoyed the product ahead of others, that’s the plus of been an pioneer consumer, if u care about value...buy an antique would be better I’d say.
"You and I can't go there , it's scary!" LOL "WOW"
Brilliant, no holds barred, an article telling the facts clearly and concisely. Thank you both for the opportunity to see how life really goes when you achieve your goals in this game. The financials are so very important to our choices as we go forward.
Bear in mind that much of what this guy is saying applies to his state, which is quite backwards on many of these issues. In other states there IS net metering, you CAN charge from the grid etc. This impacts everything, including his claim that a powerwall has a 20 year payback. That's not true if you are in a state with proper incentives, and if you are using your powerwall to charge your EV at night, etc.
If you are in a state with Net metering then there is no payback of a powerwall. It only is an expensive backup battery.
@@jasonfournier I disagree that it's just a backup battery. If you have two Powerwalls, 10 kW is plenty of continuous power for most homes, including running most standard appliances. And 26 kWh is 24 hours worth of energy supply for most homes. That is enough to cover your daily driving needs in an EV, or to comfortably power your home all night long. That represents a real dollar value that you pocket every month. It sounds like he ran up a huge expense installing tons of panels in odd places on a shady roof, in a state with awful regulations, and didn't get the results he liked. It's not the typical experience at all.
Brendan Coots exactly. It seems like he did 0 research and just threw money at it.
Just want to give you example how it works abroad. I installed the panels, in Poland last year. Whole project was subsidized so we pay like 40% of actual cost of it, we also have a solar water heater installed.
But we couldn't use PV panels until we have a new contract with power company and our meter have to be changed for the new type that measures energy taken from a grid and energy produced by PV Panels. Energy produced and not utilized in home, going to a grid as a storage device with 80% loss. So for every 100 kWh send to a grid we get back only 80 kWh. We also have a billing period two times a year in July and January, excess energy sended to a grid and not used before end of a billing period is a present for a power company.
And a one more thing, converter works only when it get power from a line. If power is cut off we could not produce power from a PV panels it's a kind of a protection mentioned in this video, but work little bit different.
Where I live (also in Georgia) I get power from an EMC (instead of Georgia Power). We can't sell power back to the EMC, which makes the payback on these nearly impossible, which is a big bummer.
Maybe I was a little crazy, because I got solar panels and a Powerwall for our little house (1200 square feet). But I love seeing that we are producing 99 percent of our power. Our A/C has never drained the Powerwall, but we are tucked up into a hillside on a hill and we don't need to use a lot. In the winter the combination of using the heat -- which draws more electricity -- and the darker days, will probably result in using power from the grid.
Refresh the model s at the same time as model 3 will not prevent what happens to model s used car price.
Important to realise that if you have partial shading on some of your panels and have a normal inverter, all of the panels will produce at the rate of the shaded panel. If you have microinverters (a small inverter that is attached to each panel), each panel will produce independently and not be reduced because one of the panels is shaded.
Your best video yet, keep up these videos, being critical can only make things better.
Agreed. Thanks Will!
I live in Georgia like him so him explaining the differences in cost/savings was crucial.
You probably should have said this is for Ga only. Sounds like Ga. is not very friendly to solar. Here in La. it's a one for one swap for power. My solar pays for it self. As far as the Tesla cars, I would suggest don't be an early adopter. I have a 2015 Model S and still love it. I knew exactly what I was getting and knew there was going to be advancements, that doesn't stop me from being jealous.
Price Sicard sounds like he’s a person with more money than sound judgment (at least in this case) who threw money at the system with little to no initial research. He spent tons of $ on panels with odd placement on a house with terrible topography for solar, in a state with very few benefits, and setting up the system to take advantage of the ITC without understanding the consequences (energy storage has to come from renewable resources aka no grid charging).
His argument that Tesla releasing a new S would somehow positively impact the value of his current S is also laughable (btw old Teslas hold value better than their ICE counterparts in the same segment). And saying why couldn’t Tesla upgrade the S and X at the same time as releasing and ramping up the 3 shows me he’s out of touch with reality.
Agree, good points. Here in Arizona, we have net-metering and most states have net-metering. And agree on the model S, it's a great car and holds its value just fine.
Very sensible advice from this chap. He is the sort of person you could talk to all day. Interesting
1:57
No
The Model 3 has 21700 cells
Tesla powerwall has the older 18650 cells
Still, in his autonomous driving talk he did recently he also talked about converting almost all the powerwall lines to model 3 pack lines because they can get cells for the powerwall from other manufacturers as they don't have the same safety requirements
Very smart guy, it's nice to listen to someone who knows what he's talking about
Elon musk knows about this but basically said it had to come 2nd to the Model 3, until late this year
Good video showing us how not to mount solar panels - ie on the east side and under trees...
He talks specifically about this and why he chose to utilize the east side based on his data. Not sure if it was featured prominently here or on the patreon only footage.
These are the chances you take when you are an early adopter
OMG! Those birds singing. Feels so good! It sounds so relaxing and sounds like everything's good and well. I want to live in an area like that and get away from this collapsing world.
That gentleman has a very nice house.
Now Imagine what the property taxes are
Comment on the essential loads. I have two power walls and a 15 kW solar system. And those two power walls provide a whole home back up. If the grid is down, my house can run on solar and power walls combined. Which could provide in the vicinity of 20 kW. But if it’s at night. Then I’m limited to 10 kW. So you can have those other items on the system. You just need to be smart about what you run or else you will trip breakers. Or you can have them on a sub panel that kicks off, but you can actually run everything with the just the PowerwallSupportNA, just not all at once.
Yes Kim, I would like to see more about solar panels and power walls of any kind and brand. Next to that I would like to see more about the development of non/ solid state batteries of any brand. Maybe you can show us something Chinese of those things. Chinese are way ahead of the Western world with those developments. Look at Build Your Dream, in short BYD for example.
I live in FL and have 1650 square feet home. I have 29 on the SW roof. I’m waiting for TECO to install the new meter. My company Energy Solutions Direct out of Largo, Fl has estimated that with that number of panels I will produce 100% of my energy needs over 12 months. My solar loan is $134 per month for twelve years. My average TECO bill is $125 per month. So in 12 years I will have my panels paid off and will pay TECO $18.00 per month! ESD suggested not adding a solar wall or even another panel if I purchase a new Model 3. They said it would be more financially sound to charge my Tesla Model 3 during the day (we’re retired) when we’re producing the most electricity and if we need additional power just buy it from TECO.
“Sustainable transport” “new car after 3/4 years”
The Tesla model S and X are getting the refresh you want and you will love it. Think a battery range of 400 to 500 miles on a single charge.
Unless your panels are almost completely blocked by dirt, grim, pollen, etc. then there is very little reason to pay someone to come and clean your panels. I can see how it is going to become a money making scheme for new companies however.
I'm sure he likes the clean look rather than lack of energy. Next hype will be Ceramic coating for your Solar panels.
A drone with water bombs should do the trick nicely.
Their are many people here that devalue this video . Yes a timid look at the reasoning and personal preferences, But step back look at the technology the options, he and many of you have at our ( not mine) fingertips. We all are on the cusp of the future .... Just be thankful for a moment. I'm in ahhh of it and am happy for him and you!
Casually talking about his six figure lifestyle... meanwhile I'm making $30,000/year...
Are you even getting paid...
You pay SO MUCH LESS than I pay in California. I’m in the process of getting my solar and power wall soon.