what still amazes me is the relevance of the show and seeing that since 2004 nothing has been done that comes close to the lesbian load and quality that L word delivers. they are very different genres, styles and show structures, but I think L word is in the 2000s as Xena was in the 90s in terms of impact on the lesbian community worldwide. And surrounding representation: is not impeccable, but it is definitely relevant, especially for that time.
Thank you for this excellent discussion. I know all the faults and problems with The L-Word but it was just amazing to see something like this show at the time.
If people think all lesbians do is screw whoever, whenever, wherever, then this show is for them. I personally would like to see lesbian representation of positive relationships,, with communication, understanding, emotional growth, real love. Screwing around is not love or a relationship.
Never watched the L world when it was first on tv , and then many years after when I did start to view the show, it took several attempts for me to get past the first 30 minutes. Just couldn’t relate at the time, perhaps it was the baby thing . However, eventually I did go back and watch all seasons . I don’t remember at what point, or what season or episode it hit me like a brick. ‘’ oh my gosh, I know those women, I am some of those women “. Like most of our world some seasons, story lines are hated or loved, but I will always be grateful that it happened as I believed it changed the landscape for what we do have available now. Not as much as we need or deserve but it opened the flood gates for serious writers, and actors to produce work that is career ending .
Telepathically I was asking for that video. So many great intriguing points here. Some may argue that the L Word could have served as a more palatable Trojan horse that would later open doors for more “realistic” and diverse levels of lesbian representation in media. However I definitely agree with your point that I saw and felt some significant levels of authenticity throughout the show. ...And bette’s layers of masculinity were always really inspiring to me ;)
Bette is a high business femme with beat mug of makeup, earrings, well kept expensive femme hair, often in femme blouses --- she was never masc just because she wore lady blazers...
Masculinity and femininity doesn't only fall on how a person presents themselves visually. When the OG comment said '...bette's layers of masculinity,' they were referring to how Bette acts. Not through her expression, but to be more distinct, the qualities that make up who she is. Conventional western stereotypes of masculinity is formed with characteristics such as being stoic, independent, logical, domineering, a provider, and so on. It's obvious that Bette's character was built on a foundation that reflects a good portion of those attributes. As the audience we get taken along with Bette to see how, if we had to categorise them, her 'MASCULINE' attitudes come to negatively impact her more personal life. Too much of one thing is never any good. We get to watch Bette realise the importance of finding a balance between her qualities in hopes to prevent the occurrence of pain in consequence to her 'masculine' attitudes coming to dominate her decision making. One example being how she thought she had to stay strong for both her and Tina and deny herself the grieving over their lost child in season 1. When zoomed out and taken into account the list mentioned earlier, society would view Bette's independence in this matter as a more 'masculine' take on dealing with the situation. So it's not like because Bette wears 'makeup, earrings, well kept expensive femme hair and lady blazers' that it eliminates her from having present or holding any masculinity . Therefor, I think it would be very beneficial and educational for you to try to expand your knowledge and revisit your ideas on this social construct. Your solitary application of masculinity and femininity to the physical appearance can at times be a bit shallow because it isn't always within the appearance of something that makes it whole. @@isabellasorensen8128 On a tangent... Most often then not we as a society glorify masculine characteristics because they're seen to help build a successful career and therefore we put more value on them over more feminine characteristics. A link could be made that Bette's career achievements were because of her more 'masculine' qualities and the amount of support we can infer Tina gave her. But since Bette had the higher income in the relationship, she fell into prioritising her job prospects over mutual support between her and her partner. I think that's why I find Tibette's relationship so interesting and fun to watch, because in part the relationship in the show explores the different vantage points of the two characters and tries to uncover why they come to conflict. It breaks down both of the characters views, reflects and rebuilds on them both individually, and lets them find each other again to work to create something that their relationship didn't previously have, leading to longevity within their relationship (let's just all ignore how GenQ completely ruined and disgraced Tibette's storyline).
We need butch lesbian representation :(( shane, haruka from sailor moon, are the only "seen" butch lesbian representation but still hets and now gender fans try their best to make sure the butch females are some sort of twanz gender and other sh8t 😭 I'm so tired of seeing butch lesbian erasure, Also the l word is still the only media that's only about lesbians, and lesbian lives, love, and friendship 😔♥️
I like your videos very much, they are intelligent, light and also funny. I'm new to the L word and it has been very helful for me as a straight older woman because It has helped me to humanize a group of individuals who were "absent" in my worldview. Apologies included. Now I can regretfully remember the times I was an asshole without even noticing. On the other hand, it's a predominantly European descent cast of beautiful women. But it's TV right? Not a docummentary. Perhaps had it been closer to real lesbian world I wouldn't have watch it. No offence intended.
Originally, the character of Kit was the focus of the show....however, producers didn't feel "a Black lesbian" would "sell" the show to a "wider audience" (*cough cough* WM with lesbian fantasies). I liked the show, but....that rubbed me the wrong way....no pun intended
@@SapphicUnderground www.autostraddle.com/68-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-the-l-word-448269/ There's a video of Pam Grier and the rest of the cast talking about it too and scenes with the chart on Kit's back on RUclips, still looking for it.
I would of loved to of seen those peoples reactions to you saying youre a lesbian! So silly that they thought you were joking. I'd of smiled at you and said "Lets be friends!"
For me the problem come from the stories. Except for Tibette no relashionship last long. The cheating, sleep with your friends stories were too much exposed in my opinion. I like the fact they showed not every « Daddy » are butch. Sorry not sorry we exist
My comments are from a marketing POV. They are not in the least politically correct. To begin, women who are sexually attracted to women refuse to identify as lesbians bc frankly, they don't want to be lumped in w/ butch women who are unattractive to men. Most lesbians still want their looks & femininity culturally affirmed, which means that they must still appeal on some level to males even if they're not sexually interested in them. We also have a lot of internalized misogyny to cope w/ bc a lot of women who love women have been as brainwashed as straight women to believe that women are inferior to men. And then there is the internalized homophobia that posits that gay relationships are inferior to a straight relationships bc 2 women can't reproduce naturally. Lesbian relationships are inherently unworkable to a straight audience; you have to give them a reason to buy into the premise of serious Sapphic love, & like it or not, the eroticism of two attractive femmes hooking up is the only thing that makes sense to them. Bottom line: You cannot sell a show abouts lesbians to a straight audience if the lesbians deviate too far from an idealized form of womanhood. Sex sells, not representation. And to be honest, that is actually what a lot of lesbians apparently want to watch, too. I was the only one of my friend group who watched every miserable, inclusive moment of Gen Q. Everyone else just ditched the show; the ick factor w/ regard to the chemistry-free cast was just too great for them. I loved the old L Word for the very shallow reasons that the girls were hot & their privileged lifestyles were to be envied. Based upon my viewing of reaction videos to "GAP: The Series" I don't think that your average lesbian wants anything that different from straight women: They want to watch a fairy tale w/ a cast of beautiful people trying to work it out. They want to watch Mon & Sam get it on, not dykes wooing each other in a bowling alley. If lesbians want to remain visible, they have to project themselves as people who arouse the prurient interests of viewers, just like straight entertainment products, & those of gay men.
It wasn’t Les Girls, it was Lez Girls, which is a pun on the old musical Les Girls
3 года назад
it is interesting to hear your view on the show that at the time was painful, and disappointing. lesbians soap opera cheating constantly. at the time Xena and Friends were more pro lesbian it seemed
Historical context when considering any media output is essential in helping understand motivation of Production Companies. Let's look at what was happening in the U.S. in general when the 'L Word' was launched. A brief way to describe the mood, and encapsulate the time period is to take the case of James Cameron's great 2000-2001 show 'Dark Angel' & then it's replacement show '24': 'Dark Angel': Jessica Alba was the main kick-arse female character who's best friend was openly lesbian. The show was set in 2019. It was set in a sort of post apocalyptic America, where a band of outsider young people set out to find out about the mysterious government agency who turned them into 'super soldiers'. Writing in his book The Encyclopedia of Superheroes on Film and Television, John Kenneth Muir said it was necessary for Cameron to set 'Dark Angel' in the future because the prosperity of the U.S. in 2000 "offered little possibility for crime, squalor and other societal problems". While criticizing certain plot elements in the second season as contributing to the show's downfall, Muir said that larger factors in ratings dropping were the September 11 attacks, the Enron scandal, and the depletion of the U.S. government's surplus, which changed Dark Angel's "futuristic vision of recession in a Third-World America" from an interesting, far-fetched premise to a "depressing reminder that things could still get worse" AFTER 9/11 'Dark Angel' was dropped by FOX & essentially replaced by '24': '24' is an American action drama television series. The series stars Kiefer Sutherland as US counter-terrorist federal agent Jack Bauer. Each season covers 24 consecutive hours in Bauer's life using the real time method of narration, which is emphasized by the display of split screens and an animated clock. The show premiered on November 6, 2001, and spanned 204 episodes over nine seasons, with the series finale broadcast on July 14, 2014. The Media in general in the U.S. became more male-centric, from news broadcasts (networks not wanting female reporters to talk about the terrorist attacks or the war following the attacks) to tv shows also becoming more male-centric. Even the 'Star Trek' tv shows ditched the 'strong female' characters and went towards more macho male Captains/crew. 9/11/2001 begins the deliberate knocking down of strong female characters in media in the U.S. 2003 - 2011 The Iraq War was a 24/7 Big Brother mind f*ck 'terror' attack on the American people. Stress abounded. Anyone born & raised during this time period had parents who were in continual 'freakout-mode'. 'Queer As Folk': premieres on Showtime in the US December 3, 2000. Much better writing in general & better lesbian representation than the 'L Word'. This show came out BEFORE 9/11 happened. The 'L Word': Aired on Showtime in the US from 2004 to 2009. Right after the Iraq War starts and macho hetero men need a distraction. F*kable Femme Lesbians? yeah, that'll do! The third season of 'The L Word' premiered on January 8, 2006 and ended on March 26, 2006. The season introduces Max Sweeney, a working-class trans man initially introduced as a 'butch' lesbian. Talk about lack of anything less than glossy 'femme' representation of lesbians on 'The L Word'???; Shane was our only butch-ish character. And not only that, but the actual erasing of 'butch' lesbians occurs - the introduction of a 'butch' lesbian who becomes a MAN is even more egregious, & a downright irresponsible action by the show runners. L does stand for Lesbian right? Yes. Yes, it does. L doesn't stand for T anything. A Trans'woman' who thinks she's a lesbian, is a man. Sorry, but true. The 'L Word GenQ' is even worse. To have the 'baby dyke' character get drunk & go down on a Trans'woman's' genitals made me puke. The 'baby dyke' does in fact puke later after that encounter, rightly so... I had to stop watching after that season. As did so many other actual lesbians...🏳🌈♀♀ This is my opinion, sorry if I offend anyone. It is many other gay people's opinion too. Look up the LGB/Alliance. It is not a 'hate' group. It is a reality-based group. Nothing about the 'L Word' is reality based, GenQ even less so...
@@SapphicUnderground OMG thank YOU for noticing me I can't describe my happiness right now !! i love you and your voice and literally everything about you..
Such BS. The cast were a mixture of women from different races and a mixture of butch and femme. There was even a trans character. You know, White people are allowed to make TV shows or feature in TV shows, right? It's not like there aren't any TV shows and films that exclusively feature PoC. There's so much hypocrisy and double standards regarding cultural appropriation. Also, why are PoC always referred to as being "indigenous" even when they're living in countries where they are not indigenous? You never see, for example, White Norwegians who live in Norway as being referred to as indigenous? We all have a right to exist and we all evolved on the same planet. PoC are no more "indigenous" than White people and they're more than welcome to create their own stuff instead of demanding White people do it for them..
what still amazes me is the relevance of the show and seeing that since 2004 nothing has been done that comes close to the lesbian load and quality that L word delivers. they are very different genres, styles and show structures, but I think L word is in the 2000s as Xena was in the 90s in terms of impact on the lesbian community worldwide. And surrounding representation: is not impeccable, but it is definitely relevant, especially for that time.
Thank you for this excellent discussion. I know all the faults and problems with The L-Word but it was just amazing to see something like this show at the time.
If people think all lesbians do is screw whoever, whenever, wherever, then this show is for them. I personally would like to see lesbian representation of positive relationships,, with communication, understanding, emotional growth, real love. Screwing around is not love or a relationship.
Yes
Some people arent boring also is television theres barely any television without trite romantic drama
Was waiting for you to say “Jennifer Neal’s in a Suit” 😁
Beals
Never watched the L world when it was first on tv , and then many years after when I did start to view the show, it took several attempts for me to get past the first 30 minutes. Just couldn’t relate at the time, perhaps it was the baby thing .
However, eventually I did go back and watch all seasons . I don’t remember at what point, or what season or episode it hit me like a brick. ‘’ oh my gosh, I know those women, I am some of those women “.
Like most of our world some seasons, story lines are hated or loved, but I will always be grateful that it happened as I believed it changed the landscape for what we do have available now. Not as much as we need or deserve but it opened the flood gates for serious writers, and actors to produce work that is career ending .
How about I type correctly. Last few words should say not career ending 😱
Just wanted to say every time you get a video out, it makes my day, so thank you. 🤗☺️
Thanks for watching :)
Samee
I don't view the L-Word quite as positively, but totally agree about Jennifer Beals and Shane (pre-character assassination)!
Telepathically I was asking for that video.
So many great intriguing points here. Some may argue that the L Word could have served as a more palatable Trojan horse that would later open doors for more “realistic” and diverse levels of lesbian representation in media. However I definitely agree with your point that I saw and felt some significant levels of authenticity throughout the show. ...And bette’s layers of masculinity were always really inspiring to me ;)
Bette is a high business femme with beat mug of makeup, earrings, well kept expensive femme hair, often in femme blouses --- she was never masc just because she wore lady blazers...
@@isabellasorensen8128 I've been hearing people say cate blanchett is masculine too. Idk why ppl think feminine women can't be powerful or wear suits
Masculinity and femininity doesn't only fall on how a person presents themselves visually.
When the OG comment said '...bette's layers of masculinity,' they were referring to how Bette acts. Not through her expression, but to be more distinct, the qualities that make up who she is. Conventional western stereotypes of masculinity is formed with characteristics such as being stoic, independent, logical, domineering, a provider, and so on.
It's obvious that Bette's character was built on a foundation that reflects a good portion of those attributes. As the audience we get taken along with Bette to see how, if we had to categorise them, her 'MASCULINE' attitudes come to negatively impact her more personal life. Too much of one thing is never any good.
We get to watch Bette realise the importance of finding a balance between her qualities in hopes to prevent the occurrence of pain in consequence to her 'masculine' attitudes coming to dominate her decision making. One example being how she thought she had to stay strong for both her and Tina and deny herself the grieving over their lost child in season 1. When zoomed out and taken into account the list mentioned earlier, society would view Bette's independence in this matter as a more 'masculine' take on dealing with the situation. So it's not like because Bette wears 'makeup, earrings, well kept expensive femme hair and lady blazers' that it eliminates her from having present or holding any masculinity .
Therefor, I think it would be very beneficial and educational for you to try to expand your knowledge and revisit your ideas on this social construct. Your solitary application of masculinity and femininity to the physical appearance can at times be a bit shallow because it isn't always within the appearance of something that makes it whole. @@isabellasorensen8128
On a tangent... Most often then not we as a society glorify masculine characteristics because they're seen to help build a successful career and therefore we put more value on them over more feminine characteristics. A link could be made that Bette's career achievements were because of her more 'masculine' qualities and the amount of support we can infer Tina gave her. But since Bette had the higher income in the relationship, she fell into prioritising her job prospects over mutual support between her and her partner. I think that's why I find Tibette's relationship so interesting and fun to watch, because in part the relationship in the show explores the different vantage points of the two characters and tries to uncover why they come to conflict. It breaks down both of the characters views, reflects and rebuilds on them both individually, and lets them find each other again to work to create something that their relationship didn't previously have, leading to longevity within their relationship (let's just all ignore how GenQ completely ruined and disgraced Tibette's storyline).
I really really feel you with saying "casting Jennifer Beals makes up for a lot" XD
Casting Margot Kidder as Jenny Schecter's mother was genius.
We need butch lesbian representation :(( shane, haruka from sailor moon, are the only "seen" butch lesbian representation but still hets and now gender fans try their best to make sure the butch females are some sort of twanz gender and other sh8t 😭 I'm so tired of seeing butch lesbian erasure,
Also the l word is still the only media that's only about lesbians, and lesbian lives, love, and friendship 😔♥️
Butch lesbians are erasing themselves by pretending they're men when they're not.
I haven't watch the L word yet but i will definitely watch it after this video !
I see a video about TLW : I click
Thank you
Jennifer Beals seems to be a fan favourite among many l word fans.
The reasons are endless
I like your videos very much, they are intelligent, light and also funny. I'm new to the L word and it has been very helful for me as a straight older woman because It has helped me to humanize a group of individuals who were "absent" in my worldview. Apologies included. Now I can regretfully remember the times I was an asshole without even noticing. On the other hand, it's a predominantly European descent cast of beautiful women. But it's TV right? Not a docummentary. Perhaps had it been closer to real lesbian world I wouldn't have watch it. No offence intended.
Originally, the character of Kit was the focus of the show....however, producers didn't feel "a Black lesbian" would "sell" the show to a "wider audience" (*cough cough* WM with lesbian fantasies). I liked the show, but....that rubbed me the wrong way....no pun intended
What the hell? Do you have a link where I can read more about this? That rubs me the wrong way too.
Damn, I would have loved that. Really liked the actress, too.
@@SapphicUnderground www.autostraddle.com/68-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-the-l-word-448269/
There's a video of Pam Grier and the rest of the cast talking about it too and scenes with the chart on Kit's back on RUclips, still looking for it.
But Kit was straight?
omg lol Shane in a dress 1:53
I would of loved to of seen those peoples reactions to you saying youre a lesbian! So silly that they thought you were joking. I'd of smiled at you and said "Lets be friends!"
I would like to have your thoughts on Lip service.
I needed a third season of the Frankie and Cat show a.k.a. Scottish L Word.
@@isobelb yes I wish the same too.. like minded thinking.
Europe was way ahead, especially Germany and a lot of the L word I see in the German shows
For me the problem come from the stories. Except for Tibette no relashionship last long. The cheating, sleep with your friends stories were too much exposed in my opinion.
I like the fact they showed not every « Daddy » are butch. Sorry not sorry we exist
And Bette Porter return this August.. which will cause feels for someone.
alice is not a lesbian😭 and neither is jenny or tina ugh
Pardon me but you look super hot in that suit!
My comments are from a marketing POV. They are not in the least politically correct. To begin, women who are sexually attracted to women refuse to identify as lesbians bc frankly, they don't want to be lumped in w/ butch women who are unattractive to men. Most lesbians still want their looks & femininity culturally affirmed, which means that they must still appeal on some level to males even if they're not sexually interested in them. We also have a lot of internalized misogyny to cope w/ bc a lot of women who love women have been as brainwashed as straight women to believe that women are inferior to men. And then there is the internalized homophobia that posits that gay relationships are inferior to a straight relationships bc 2 women can't reproduce naturally. Lesbian relationships are inherently unworkable to a straight audience; you have to give them a reason to buy into the premise of serious Sapphic love, & like it or not, the eroticism of two attractive femmes hooking up is the only thing that makes sense to them. Bottom line: You cannot sell a show abouts lesbians to a straight audience if the lesbians deviate too far from an idealized form of womanhood. Sex sells, not representation. And to be honest, that is actually what a lot of lesbians apparently want to watch, too. I was the only one of my friend group who watched every miserable, inclusive moment of Gen Q. Everyone else just ditched the show; the ick factor w/ regard to the chemistry-free cast was just too great for them. I loved the old L Word for the very shallow reasons that the girls were hot & their privileged lifestyles were to be envied. Based upon my viewing of reaction videos to "GAP: The Series" I don't think that your average lesbian wants anything that different from straight women: They want to watch a fairy tale w/ a cast of beautiful people trying to work it out. They want to watch Mon & Sam get it on, not dykes wooing each other in a bowling alley. If lesbians want to remain visible, they have to project themselves as people who arouse the prurient interests of viewers, just like straight entertainment products, & those of gay men.
It wasn’t Les Girls, it was Lez Girls, which is a pun on the old musical Les Girls
it is interesting to hear your view on the show that at the time was painful, and disappointing. lesbians soap opera cheating constantly. at the time Xena and Friends were more pro lesbian it seemed
Makes no difference between straight and out of straight. They are human beings. That is all.
The worst character is Carmen, because her actress have Iranian's origin, but for some stupid reason she is a latina ..
I think if you Google ‘acting’ it’ll help you understand how the cast are ‘pretending’ to be the characters. None of it is real. 🤯
Historical context when considering any media output is essential in helping understand motivation of Production Companies.
Let's look at what was happening in the U.S. in general when the 'L Word' was launched.
A brief way to describe the mood, and encapsulate the time period is to take the case of James Cameron's great 2000-2001 show 'Dark Angel' & then it's replacement show '24': 'Dark Angel': Jessica Alba was the main kick-arse female character who's best friend was openly lesbian. The show was set in 2019. It was set in a sort of post apocalyptic America, where a band of outsider young people set out to find out about the mysterious government agency who turned them into 'super soldiers'.
Writing in his book The Encyclopedia of Superheroes on Film and Television, John Kenneth Muir said it was necessary for Cameron to set 'Dark Angel' in the future because the prosperity of the U.S. in 2000 "offered little possibility for crime, squalor and other societal problems". While criticizing certain plot elements in the second season as contributing to the show's downfall, Muir said that larger factors in ratings dropping were the September 11 attacks, the Enron scandal, and the depletion of the U.S. government's surplus, which changed Dark Angel's "futuristic vision of recession in a Third-World America" from an interesting, far-fetched premise to a "depressing reminder that things could still get worse"
AFTER 9/11 'Dark Angel' was dropped by FOX & essentially replaced by '24':
'24' is an American action drama television series. The series stars Kiefer Sutherland as US counter-terrorist federal agent Jack Bauer. Each season covers 24 consecutive hours in Bauer's life using the real time method of narration, which is emphasized by the display of split screens and an animated clock. The show premiered on November 6, 2001, and spanned 204 episodes over nine seasons, with the series finale broadcast on July 14, 2014.
The Media in general in the U.S. became more male-centric, from news broadcasts (networks not wanting female reporters to talk about the terrorist attacks or the war following the attacks) to tv shows also becoming more male-centric. Even the 'Star Trek' tv shows ditched the 'strong female' characters and went towards more macho male Captains/crew.
9/11/2001 begins the deliberate knocking down of strong female characters in media in the U.S.
2003 - 2011 The Iraq War was a 24/7 Big Brother mind f*ck 'terror' attack on the American people. Stress abounded. Anyone born & raised during this time period had parents who were in continual 'freakout-mode'.
'Queer As Folk': premieres on Showtime in the US December 3, 2000. Much better writing in general & better lesbian representation than the 'L Word'. This show came out BEFORE 9/11 happened.
The 'L Word': Aired on Showtime in the US from 2004 to 2009. Right after the Iraq War starts and macho hetero men need a distraction. F*kable Femme Lesbians? yeah, that'll do!
The third season of 'The L Word' premiered on January 8, 2006 and ended on March 26, 2006. The season introduces Max Sweeney, a working-class trans man initially introduced as a 'butch' lesbian. Talk about lack of anything less than glossy 'femme' representation of lesbians on 'The L Word'???; Shane was our only butch-ish character. And not only that, but the actual erasing of 'butch' lesbians occurs - the introduction of a 'butch' lesbian who becomes a MAN is even more egregious, & a downright irresponsible action by the show runners.
L does stand for Lesbian right? Yes. Yes, it does. L doesn't stand for T anything. A Trans'woman' who thinks she's a lesbian, is a man. Sorry, but true. The 'L Word GenQ' is even worse. To have the 'baby dyke' character get drunk & go down on a Trans'woman's' genitals made me puke. The 'baby dyke' does in fact puke later after that encounter, rightly so...
I had to stop watching after that season. As did so many other actual lesbians...🏳🌈♀♀ This is my opinion, sorry if I offend anyone. It is many other gay people's opinion too. Look up the LGB/Alliance. It is not a 'hate' group. It is a reality-based group.
Nothing about the 'L Word' is reality based, GenQ even less so...
Hey please notice me I have a huge crush on you
Hello :D thank-you!
@@SapphicUnderground OMG thank YOU for noticing me I can't describe my happiness right now !! i love you and your voice and literally everything about you..
Why are bringing up racial division more than the story line?
Such BS. The cast were a mixture of women from different races and a mixture of butch and femme. There was even a trans character. You know, White people are allowed to make TV shows or feature in TV shows, right? It's not like there aren't any TV shows and films that exclusively feature PoC. There's so much hypocrisy and double standards regarding cultural appropriation. Also, why are PoC always referred to as being "indigenous" even when they're living in countries where they are not indigenous? You never see, for example, White Norwegians who live in Norway as being referred to as indigenous? We all have a right to exist and we all evolved on the same planet. PoC are no more "indigenous" than White people and they're more than welcome to create their own stuff instead of demanding White people do it for them..
omg lol Shane in a dress 1:53