Wohlberg Addresses SDA World Leaders About Anti-Trinity Controversy
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2024
- On March 9, 2024, Pastor Steve Wohlberg gave this (remote) presentation to SDA World Division Ministerial Directors about divisive Trinity/Anti-Trinity/Godhead issues within the Adventist Church. All attendees were given a copy of his new book, Satan's War Against the Godhead. Q&A, too.
Satan's War Against the Godhead
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Jesus is waiting for you so he can breathe on you his spirit. Let this mind of Christ be in you!❤
We believe in the holy spirt which is the spirit of Christ. Galatians 4:6
Are you practicing "spiritualism in your mind? Do you know what the word spirit means? or you are implying something else. Watch this:
It is written??????? Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
What do you mean "holy spirit"? What are you implying? Is it a who? or a what?. I hope in your mind you are not thinking of the pagan "god the holy spirit" of trinitarianism. Godhead? A who, or a what?
(Powerful Holy Mind/heart/Spirit/Divinity/Divine nature of God) The holy spirit is the powerful mind of the Almighty Creator. It is Holy, because my God is Holy.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14.
Spirit of a man/thoughts/Spirit of God.(Powerful Holy Mind/Spirit/Divinity/Divine nature of God)
The Spirits/Powers of God is the presence of God, is the very Life of God, its the mind and breath of God.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul(human).
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: The mind that was in Christ Jesus was the mind of his Father,or the Holy Spirit thats why when we pray for the Holy Spirit many people are confused as to what they are praying for, a true biblical understanding will reveal that the spirit of God is the mind or the character of God.
ROMANS 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
JOHN 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
King James version Bible
"It is written???????" 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Berean Study Bible.
"It is written???????" 1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way NO ONE knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
It is written??????? 1 Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
It is written??????? Psalms 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
139:24 And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting
It is written??????? John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
It is written??????? Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
It is written??????? Jeremiah 15:1 Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, [yet] my mind [could] not [be] toward this people: cast [them] out of my sight, and let them go forth.
"It is written???????" 2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
"It is written" Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart(mind) bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart(mind) bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart(mind) his mouth speaketh.
"It is written???????" Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
"It is written???????" Jeremiah 17:9 The heart(mind/spirit)[is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
God's Breathe/Spirit
It is written??????? John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
It is written??????? Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul(human being).
It is written??????? Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
It is written??????? Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils;
It is written??????? Job 33:4 The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
It is written??????? Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, [if] he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
It is written??????? Job 37:10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.
It is written??????? Job 41:21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
It is written??????? Psalms 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
It is written??????? Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
It is written??????? Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
It is written??????? Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
It is written??????? Isaiah 30:28 And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and [there shall be] a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing [them] to err.
It is written??????? Isaiah 33:11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, [as] fire, shall devour you.
It is written??????? Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
It is written??????? Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.
It is written??????? Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
J N Loughborough.(Second Advent Movement Pioneer)
Here is a plain distinction made between the Spirit, and God that raises the dead by that Spirit. If the living God is a Spirit in the strictest sense of the term, and at the same time is in possession of a Spirit, then we have at once the novel idea of the Spirit of a Spirit, something it will take at least a Spiritualist to explain.
J N Loughborough(Second Advent Movement Pioneer)
It is inferred because the Bible says that God is a Spirit, that he is not a
person. An inference should not be made the basis for an argument. Great Scripture truths are plainly stated, and it will not do for us to found a doctrine on inferences, contrary to positive statements in the word of God. If the Scripture states in positive terms that God is a person, it will not answer for us to draw an inference from the text which says "God is a Spirit," that he has no body.
JESUS CHRIST HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER. "Now the giving of the Holy Spirit(Powerful Holy Mind/Spirit/Divinity/Divine nature of God) is the giving of Christ, and the presence of the Holy Spirit is the presence of Christ(character) in us, and the power of the Holy Spirit is the power of Christ(character) in us, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling of Christ(character) in us, for the Holy Spirit is Christ’s actual representative." GCB December 1895, p. 632.4
@@user-rz9yd5gx2camen!
@@user-rz9yd5gx2cAmen
Amen 🙏
Steve, we know of no Bible based christian who doubts that Christ is fully divine. He us truly divine because he was truly "the Son of the living God." Matt.16:16
Most Christians do not understand the sonship of Jesus with the Father and think he became the son of God through the Holy Spirit. Almighty God is from everlasting to everlasting without beginning or ending. At some point before the creation of the world God brought forth a part of himself and called him his “only begotten” Proverbs 8:22-36. Together Father and Son created the world and everything in it. Jesus is called the Word of God because it was the Son who spoke the word and the Father brought it to fruition. Heb. 1:2 “(God) has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (God) created the worlds”. At the time appointed, God sent his Son into the world to be our Saviour that we might live through him.
The issue concerning the Trinity/Non-Trinity debate is simply: "Is Christ the real Son of God?" Did Christ come from God His Father? It is not about whether there are three entities in the Godhead. Trinitarians inevitably end up saying, "If you say Christ came from God his father, you are saying he is created. This is hogwash. We are saying he is begotten; kind of like every other child of parents. Actually, the same as every other child of parents. These people with masters and PHds, will misunderstand the definitions of created and begotten just to back up their doctrine. I am a fourth grade teacher and I am sure this level of student can rightly understand the definition of these two words: Begotten and Created. In my several dialogues with Trinitarians, we have ended up on these two words every time.
That's right! 👍 Thank you for your comment! God bless you!!
@@esencialfactor I find that people can believe that EVE was 'brought forth' out of Adam's rib (because the Bible says so), but can't comprehend a true Son of God being brought forth from the Father. But they can believe that the 3 'beings' had a meeting eons ago and decided who would be who. True story. I've heard SDA leadership say that. Who will be Who completely takes away a true, literal Son of God, and therefore we have no Savior. I have a Savior, though. He is Jesus the true literal Son of God.
@@samsdaughterdehaven9990 Exactly!! The Godhead is clearly seen from the creation.
Rom 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
How many people God created? Two people in one, which was called Adam. And then, Eve went out from Adam.
Gen 5: 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Jesus said that He came out from the Father.
John 16: 27,28 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
This true is clear. Thank you bro! God bless you a lot!
those Smart Men don't question Eve coming from Adam's rib yet the just don't get the 'only begotten' Son. And why do they say 'anti'?? IMO it is to make it sound like we 1 true God believers are more radical.
The problem within the anti-trinitarian movement is worship. Satan has tried to confuse God’s remnant people by clever misreading of scripture to make Jesus less than God. We were warned of this deception in many places in the New Testament.
Paul in Galatians writes:
Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
While Paul is talking about something slightly different in his day the principle is still there. The only way for salvation is that God can forgive sin.
Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
The Bible states that Jesus is both God (no beginning and no end) and Man. Mar 2:7 “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Anyone who reduces Jesus less then God is denying him.
In this time, when false doctrines are being taught, we are to teach the same truth that we have taught for the past half century. I have not changed my faith one jot or one tittle. 21LtMs, Lt 150, 1906, par. 9
THANK YOU! This is, IMHO, the biggest problem suggested here by Steve! If Ellen can change her tune on such a crucial doctrine, she is going to HAVE to acknowledge and address the 180 degree flip-flop, else the world will have ABUNDANTLY adequate grounds to question her claim to divine inspiration! Other founders might exhibit changes, but when she so clearly sanctioned their well-hammered fundamental beliefs, and stated that precisely because the Holy Spirit DIRECTED that exemplary Bible study, it is nothing short of LUDICROUS to hear all these "modern hot-rods" claiming to now have BETTER light, especially when we have been well warned against their attacks on the truth!
The Deceiver is going full throttle with “ those who allow themselves to be devoured “. The main problem in this church that I love is that we are not about our father’s business in these last hours of the night: Matthew 28: 19,20
Therefore the enemy is putting some of us to work in his vineyard. I don’t get it that SDAs get themselves in all kinds of social, biblical controversies. Why not put our head and resources together in ” seeking the lost”. This way we could hasten his coming. We’ll have plenty of time to address all the questions and controversies in heaven. Let’s get to work!
@@molarfourteen6690 "Seeking the lost"must sometimes mean presenting to them the whole truth without compromise!
Search "trinity" in EGW writings and there are only THREE hits. Of those THREE hits, only ONE is actually written by EG White and when you read it, you realize that she's not even talking about the trinity!
@@pahnting I have never found anything where she mentions the word Trinity.
I was watching the Baltimore Bridge collapsing and this came to my thought
“Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor.” {E. G. White, Manuscript Release No.760, p. 9} 1905
Thank you for that JEWEL! (but I can just hear "them" now: "that can't mean US, certainly!")
Let's not forget that Ellen's husband, James, stated that one problem with the trinity is that it "does away with the personality of God." R&H, Dec 11, 1855.
@@williamandress7504 and the 2nd angel’s message RH March 6, 1855. Front page right bottom col. #2
Let's also remember that they didn't believe the Sabbath at one point too. So let's make sure to make the founders the end all of belief and doctrine. The scriptures clearly show the worship of Jesus being approved of God. Jesus heals people that worship him. Yet we are also told by scripture to have no other God's and to not worship other God's. So I don't understand this whole issue. This is all just semantics to distract people from hearing the 3 angels messages just like trying to prove there is only one way to say the sacred name. All Satan's tactics of distraction
@@sharidandan4172 We need to understand this it’s everything to us as a people. Ingo Sorke connects it very clearly to the sanctuary message if you don’t get it right you won’t be part of the ones who give The 3rd angels message.
God the Father is the only true God. Why? Because everything originated with Him. He is the Most High God and shares that position with no one.
His Son is begotten of God the Father. Jesus is the Prince of heaven. God begats God. Humans begats human’s.
Jesus is not THE GOD. He is the Son of That God. God the Father gave all things to His Son. Jesus inherited his God nature from his Father. God told the angel’s to worship him, by worshiping the Son, they Honor God the Father. Because the Father’s NAME is in his Son. Jesus is called an Angel. When is God the Father ever called an Angel?
Don’t believe me? Read Ex. 23:20-25. Jesus is never called The ancient of days. The Father is never called the Lamb of God😉
He literally states the truth in the fundamental principles then seek to justify the lies brought in. Jesus never started his church on error. Ellen white told us to hold on to what was taught for the first 50 years so how can u say it was not cast in stone. I hope no one listen to this presentation and accept same
They count past truth as error, if it is truth then it is truth now
😅😅😅and they got it right today adding the trinity doctrine 😂😂you kidding me … a sistem that allows abortion in their hospitals following the Babylon sistem.. they got new light from heaven ? 😅
ML Andreasen wrote: "How astonished we were when Desire of Ages was first published, for it contained some things that we considered unbelievable; among others the doctrine of the Trinity, which was not generally accepted by the Adventists then.”
“I was in the same place that Brother Daniells was, and was taught the same things [that Christ was the beginning of God’s creative work, that to speak of the third person of the Godhead or of the trinity was heretical] by authority, and without doing my own thinking or studying I suppose [sic] I was right. But I found out something different.” (1919 Bible Conference Transcripts, July 6, 1919, 58.)
Unfairly label anti Trinity, how about pro bible
love that title... I am "Pro-Bible" ... we are "Bible-tarians" 👍💖
Pioneer Beleiving Adventist
How many Leaders and members got disfellowship over the trinity controversy?
I will voluntarily disfellowship myself. And not be among pagans, and idolators.
@@user-rz9yd5gx2c All are sinners,we were warned and the worst is yet to come. I pray that you stay God will see you through!This is a spiritual war.
on the outskirts because we won't follow Rome's Trinity
If the trinity is the true God; how come the Catholic church wipeouted slaughteed and destroyed the three tribes in 476-538 that didn't agreed with the church.?
After all the Spirit is love patience,long-suffering ....
Yes, the truth is simple, and the history profound....
The simple truth is God is a true Father and Jesus is His true Son. Simple.
Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Adventist history is not based on the trinity doctrine sir.
Preach/teach GOD is clear, there are three to the GODHEAD period.
Right, it is based on a non-trinitian doctrine along with others.
Seems to me that the word 'trinity' is highly misinterpreted, defined and applied. Let's start with the basics...what does the word 'trinity' mean?
Most critics keep going round and round in circles...
What spirit is revealed disfellowshipping members over matters of conscience? Anti-trinity will never go away, because it's the truth. Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Christ in me the hope of glory. Yes it's Christ not another being. The divinity of Christ is omnipresent. His humanity is not. Amen.
In giving His commission to His followers, Christ did not tell them they would be left alone. He assured them that He would be near them. He spoke of His Omnipresence in a special way. Go to all nations, He said. Go, to the farthest portion of the habitable globe, but know that My presence will be there. Labor in faith and confidence, for the time will never come when I shall forsake you. Ellen White, {12LtMs, Ms 138, 1897, par. 21}
@@KENSH65 Right on Ken !!!!!!!!!!
And Father sends the spirit of his Son, Galatians 4:6!
Amem❤
CONTEXT: 1903
The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be ACCOUNTED AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice; but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 18LtMs, Lt 242, 1903, par. 13
Thanks brother I never thought other wise blessed Sabbath day to you all😇🙏
The false reformation was Kellogg’s pantheism, not Bible truth about the Godhead.
Amen preach this quote from sister white says all
Why our pastors our not studying this subject ?
@SteveWohlberg
Kellogg stated that he now believed in the Trinity . He distorted the nature of God.
You mean the Jesuits, among the so called leadership of the so called SDA corporation?
To Mr Wohlberg, How Desire of Ages can be your favorite book of EGW and terrible fail to see The Spirit of God as said in Matthew 3:16 belongs to God the Father; Sister White clearly says it was the glory of Father coming from the throne of God pure light shaped like a dove it was not this third person you call God the Holy Spirit. Notice what she says:
“Never before have the angels listened to such a prayer. They are eager to bear to their loved Commander a message of assurance and comfort. But no; THE FATHER HIMSELF will answer the petition of His Son. Direct from the throne issue the beams of HIS GLORY. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour's head descends a dovelike form of purest light,-fit emblem of Him, the meek and lowly One.” This quote is from Desire of Ages Chapter 11 titled The Baptism p. 112.1 Here’s another one: “At the Saviour's baptism, Satan was among the witnesses. He saw the FATHER’S GLORY overshadowing His Son. He heard the voice of Jehovah testifying to the divinity of Jesus.” This from Desire of Ages Chapter 12 titled The Temptation p. 116.2 Furthermore no one in Heaven has never! Worship a Triune God just read the book of Revelations
Amen. A good reference that is confirmed by the prior. [page 112 explains page 116]
1.
We learn that the Spirit of God is synonymous with the Glory of God.
2.
We are reminded as to who Jehovah is.
These people wants to put their satanic nerrative to what information my God have revealed. I don't think they have read 1 Corinthians 2:11. If they do? either they are ignoring it, or does not mentally discern what it implies. These humans are wolves in sheep's clothing.
So true. The Desire of Ages is filled with very clear non-Trinitarian statements despite many of the deceived claiming she became a Trinitarian before writing this book. Such people inadvertently are saying God lied to her in the beginning also. Ellen White wrote non-Trinitarian statements all the way to her passing.
Note the following quotes and the comment behind each one. Every one of these quotes below are non-Trinitarian.
So in addition to yours, her are a few more.
“All things Christ received from God, but He took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all.” - (Desire Of Ages, p. 21) - Christ received everything from His Father including His life.
“The dedication of the first-born had its origin in the earliest times. God had promised to give the First-born of heaven to save the sinner.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 51) - Jesus was the Son of God before He came to Earth. The trinity doctrine teaches all three are one god and that the Father sent Himself to die playing the role of the Son.
“Satan well knew the position that Christ had held in heaven as the Beloved of the Father. That the Son of God should come to this earth as a man filled him with amazement and with apprehension. He could not fathom the mystery of this great sacrifice.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 115) - Same comment as above.
“While Jesus ministers in the sanctuary above, He is still by His Spirit the minister of the church on earth. He is withdrawn from the eye of sense, but His parting promise is fulfilled, “Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” Matt. 28:20. While He delegates His power to inferior ministers, His energizing presence is still with His church.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 166) - It is the Holy Spirit of Christ here on Earth working in us, not another being as per the trinity doctrine which is Satan's counterfeit for the Godhead.
“The Saviour had spoken through all the prophets. “The Spirit of Christ which was in them” “testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 234) - The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was also the Holy Spirit of Christ and not another literal being as per the trinity doctrine.
“It was Gabriel, the angel next in rank to the Son of God, who came with the divine message to Daniel.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 234) - The Holy Spirit should be the highest being next to the Son of God according to the trinity doctrine, but not so.
“When He should come forth from the tomb, their sorrow would be turned to joy. After His ascension He was to be absent in person; but through the Comforter He would still be with them, and they were not to spend their time in mourning.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 278) - Christ by His Holy Spirit is the Comforter, not another being as per the trinity doctrine. Note also: “This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter.” - (E.G. White, 14MR 179.2)
“In the beginning, the Father and the Son had rested on the Sabbath after their work of Creation.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 769) - The trinity doctrine teaches that the word “us” in Genesis 1:26 is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three beings that are only one. But it was only the Father and Son which Scripture also reveals.
“And when He had said this, He [Christ] breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: ... Before the disciples could fulfill their official duties in connection with the church, Christ breathed His Spirit upon them. He was committing to them a most sacred trust, and He desired to impress them with the fact that without the Holy Spirit this work could not be accomplished.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 805) - The Holy Spirit given by Christ to His disciples and at Pentecost was His own Spirit. Not another literal being as per the trinity doctrine. John 20:22 quoted.
“Christ gives them the breath of His own spirit, the life of His own life. The Holy Spirit puts forth its highest energies to work in heart and mind.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 827) - The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, not another being as per the trinity doctrine which was a teaching that begun 348 years after the cross and hence never came from Christ or the disciples.
@@Geofflovesflying amen
@@Geofflovesflying Amen. My favorite out of your collection is the D of A page 278.
The reference to the 1872 statement as vague is casting contempt on the pioneers. Then they never gave the first angel's message which is calling to worship God. They didn't know the God they were worshipping
1872 principles were given to us by unquestionable authority, and are our only true foundation, based on the truth of the Bible.They WILL be preserved.Praise God and the Lamb !
Our pioneers were binitarian in 1872 and only believed in two divine persons. Thus official church statements on this topic did not mention a third person of the Godhead until after Desire of Ages.
“I was in the same place that Brother Daniells was, and was taught the same things [that Christ was the beginning of God’s creative work, that to speak of the third person of the Godhead or of the trinity was heretical] by authority, and without doing my own thinking or studying I suppose [sic] I was right. But I found out something different.” (1919 Bible Conference Transcripts, July 6, 1919, 58.)
Another false statement from Chris. How sad. So desperate to hide the truth even at the cost of his own soul. We are supposed to reconcile all things, not cherry pick things that can be abused or what can be misunderstood on its own.
You should let them speak for themselves, you telling us what they mean don’t cut it
You mentioned 1 John 5:7. It was determined by the Adventist Bible Institute that this verse is indeed added and should not be used to defend the biblical authority of the trinity. Also, this isn't about "sides" as you stated. It's about biblical truth. If there is not a thus sayeth the Lord as you yourself acknowledge, why has this become a doctrine in the SDA church? Plain and simple. And I would argue that our fundamental beliefs HAVE become a creed when people are expelled from church for not agreeing with it. This is not what the pioneers wanted. You also mentioned that the fundamental beliefs are not written in stone. But Mrs. White said the truth God has given us will not change. The fundamentals that the early Adventists had come to know thru diligent prayer and Bible study were pillars that should not be removed. She also said a movement would occur after her death that would claim "new light" but would lead the church astray. Nobody is Pitting the Father against the Son, that is a gross misrepresentation of the anti=trinitarian movement.
You also dont understand that so-called anti-trinitarians DO believe that Christ is God in that he has the essence of the Father, Jesus was begotten from Him. Like any son he has the attributes of his Father. He was given all things by the Father and sits WITH Him in His throne. He works with the Father and by Him and is one with him in purpose and love. He is, since his inception, immortal as only God can be. But it all began, so to speak, with the Father. He alone can claim sovereignty over the universe. He it is that is spoken of in the 4th commandment.
Jesus himself said he had a beginning. Proverbs 8:22-30.
Taking scripture out of the bible because an institute said...interesting ..I wonder what else can get thrown out of the bible because and "institute" says so..🤔
@@racketyjack7621 The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”-Upward Look, 148.
They are each eternal meaning they had no beginning. They are each God in the highest sense.
@@Keating-ue6do The King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son and show the relation He sustained to all created beings. The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. {PP 36.2}
Shall Christ be compelled to bear continually the shameful infirmities of His people because they accept the false sentiments proceeding from the first traitor in the heavenly courts? If the angels were deceived by Lucifer's ingenious methods of misrepresenting God, if Adam and Eve were deceived by his declaration that God was withholding from them the higher education that would make them as gods, is there not danger that men today will be deceived? Please read the first chapter of Patriarchs and Prophets and see if the precious truths contained in this book are not given by the Lord to protect His people from deceptions that are urged upon them just now. {10MR 162.4} Read the first paragraph of PP as we are counseled to do. Read it very carefully. And notice in the first paragraph above it says the self-existent ONE. As in not two or three.
I tell you in the name of the Lord God of Israel, that Satan is presenting his sophistries to ministers and medical workers, and if our people listen to these sophistries, they will become impregnated with the same false idea of a popular religion that will cause them to develop into gods, and there will be no place in their lives for God or for Christ. {10MR 163.1}
They have one God and one Saviour; and one Spirit--the Spirit of Christ--is to bring unity into their ranks. {9T 189.3}
The Pioniers also kept Sunday.
I'm finally done with this session of false teachings. Had to endure the willful ignorance. God can never bless this apostasy. NO AMEN to the hypocritical prayers. Those in the audience who love the truth will find it.
You cut out too early and missed Steve's point on humility
@@throwingpearls4601humility with deception?
@@nvateach1deception? You're accusing Steve of being deliberately deceitful as opposed to mistaken; this is not a small accusation. If you believe Steve is deliberately deceiving people, let me suggest with all humility that your discernment is deeply flawed, and your confidence in fully grasping one of God's great mysteries comes across as arrogance.
Adventist Movement…. and as the analogy of a ship was used, GOD is leading us ever forward into deeper, fuller insights and understanding of the truth.
If the word trinity is associated with a Catholic doctrine and the use of the term GODHEAD as taken from Scripture has always been used by Adventists, why change it.
Why not teach this “fuller & deeper understanding & insight under the same term???
If Protestantism & Adventism has come OUT of and away from the Catholic Church, WHY would GOD lead us back to take on the their language & doctrinal terms especially since, for centuries, the Catholic Church taught the Trinity doctrine thereby evoking that belief anytime that the term is used?
As a distinct & peculiar people, as Adventists teach they are, does it not stand to reason that the term GODHEAD, especially since it is supported by Scripture, suffices and serves the purposes of giving the call to come out of Babylon and pointing out the errors of other doctrines such as Sunday sacredness, an eternally burning hell & the state of the dead, should/could have been left in tact?
This whole disagreement could be resolved if Adventists leadership would see how using a term that describes a centuries old Catholic doctrine arouses consternation, suspicion & division among Adventists… which is so unnecessary and a huge waste of time & resources, and that could have been avoided by sticking with what we had.
What is wrong with the term GODHEAD?
Was it a slip of the tongue?… the gentleman said of The Father, Son & Holy Spirit… “three in one.” Is that what he meant or did he mean to say, three AS one.”
We have no use if the term Trinity in any of the writings of/by the early pioneers.
The true motive for this change has been stated… that it is more acceptable for evangelism… putting us more in line with Christendom.
It was specifically stated by Mrs.White that the pillars/foundational beliefs of our faith had been firmly established by GOD and that not ONE should be removed.
… although certain of Mr. Haskell’s writings were inspired and met with the wholehearted approval of the early Adventists/pioneers, others such as The Seer of Patmos contained error which the early Pioneers called out.
GOD told the pair in the Garden not to eat of ONE TREE; Satan changed it to every tree in the garden.
Paul says in Hebrews 12:22,23 that JESUS is the FIRST BORN; Mr W. says, No, first born means not born at all.
Paul says Jesus is the ONLY mediator;(1 Timothy 2:5)Mr W. says , NO, there are two mediators.
Whom should I believe? The word of God or a minister?
Believe the Word of God. The Bible says Abraham offered Isaac, his “firstborn son.” Was Isaac literally his firstborn son? No, Ishmael was. Thus firstborn doesn’t mean literal birth, but preeminence.
Believe the word of God!! 🙏
@@susanw922 Thank you Sister. I believe in the word of GOD.
GOD says that CHRIST JESUS is HIS BELOVED SON ( MAT 3:17)
The demon says that CHRIST JESUS is the SON of THE MOST HIGH ( Mar.5:7)
Peter says CHRIST is the SON of THE LIVING GOD. (MAT. 16:16)
Paul says in Acts 9:20 " And straightway he preached CHRIST in the synagogues, that HE is the SON of GOD. "
I believe the Word of GOD that says that CHRIST is the Holy Spirit, the third person of the GODHEAD.
Acts 20:28 says: " Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which THE HOLY SPIRIT hath made you overseers, to feed the CHURCH of GOD, which HE hath PURCHASED with HIS OWN BLOOD. "
The Spirit has no blood. CHRIST JESUS shed HIS OWN BLOOD to purchase US, not the Holy Spirit.
Most of all. CHRIST JESUS kept repeating I am the SON of GOD.
John 10:36 "Say ye to HIM,whom the FATHER hath SANCTIFIED, and SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I AM the SON OF GOD?"
"And because ye are sons, GOD hath sent forth the SPIRIT OF HIS SON into your hearts, crying ABBA FATHER. (Galatians 4:6)
Prayerfully.
@@SteveWohlberg Isaac is the first born in a sense that Ishmael was born of man's will (of the flesh), but Isaac was born of God's will (of the Spirit) from the woman that God approved of, who interestingly enough was 90yrs old.
@@SteveWohlberg Pastor, I read in Hebrews 11 where it says that Abraham offered up Isaac, "his only begotten son," but nowhere can I find where the Bible calls Isaac his "firstborn." However, twice in Genesis 22 the Bible refers to Isaac as Abraham's "only son." Was Isaac literally Abraham's only son? No. Therefore, to maintain consistency with your argument, "only" in John 3:16 must mean that Jesus is the son "only in preeminence and not by literal birth" thereby necessitating lesser "son deities" floating around heaven somewhere.
So,as time goes by, the way of interpreting the Scriptures changes! So our pioneers had a vague understanding of God or trinity!😮😢😢! This is very sad!
ML Andreasen wrote: "How astonished we were when Desire of Ages was first published, for it contained some things that we considered unbelievable; among others the doctrine of the Trinity, which was not generally accepted by the Adventists then.”
Cant believe at all how he wants to justify trinity...
@@TarzanTutua follow the pioneers my friend.
"The doctrine of the trinity is true when rightly understood."
--Stephen N. Haskell (SDA pioneer), The Bible Training School, Feb. 1906, pg. 156
Name one person in the Bible who believed in the one God of Israel as triune and nature and conveyed to the people of Israel that this is who their God was?
That ia an impossible request.
@@alph8654because the Trinity is not in the Bible….
@@beaelleess3892 Exactly !! It is not in the Bible or the SOP.
Jesus. John The Baptist, John the Revelator.
1 John 5:7 KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I think there's alot of double speak in our leadership. if the 1872 statement of believe is not cast in stone, are our fundamental believes today cast in stone? Also if you challenge the trinity doctrine your name is removed from the church register but if you do contrary to some straight biblical teachings especially in matters to do with sexuality its ok. what about this statement. “The concept of the Trinity, namely the IDEA THAT THE THREE ARE ONE, IS NOT EXPLICITLY STATED BUT ONLY ASSUMED.” - Fernando L. Canale, The Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Seventh-day Adventist Encyclopaedia, Volume 12, pg. 138, ‘Doctrine of God’ also this quote: “While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact by Bible writers… Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity.” (p. 4) adventist review july 30th 1981 pg 4
*henrymwangi7170:* Precisely. The church board failed miserably to find me in error even though they used the Bible and Ellen White's statements. The pastor was too embarrassed to take it to the church to decide, or else the false doctrine would have been exposed to the entire church.
So, pastor Steve, what do we do about with the Story of Redemption chapters 1 and 2, and Patriarchs and Prophets chapters 1?
He has no answer for those chapters. In this presentation he uses this quote to try and prove that Jesus has always been - " The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both." {PP 36.2}
The quote plainly says "self-existent One." Not self existing two.
@@alph8654 An exceptional reference. {PP 36.2}
The statements and the arguments of some of our ministers, in their effort to prove that the holy spirit is an individual, as are God the Father, and Christ, the eternal Son, have perplexed me, and sometimes they have made me sad. One popular teacher said " we may regard him, as the fellow who is down here running things ".
William Clarence White 1854- 1937. Letter w.c. white to h.w. caff, April 30th, 1935.
1 cor 8 v 6❤
(Matthew 12:31 KJV) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
(Matthew 12:32 KJV) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
@ashersian2563 Amen let those who confess the unbiblical notion of a 3rd seperate deity,( called god the holy spirit) who isn't a 3rd seperate deity cos they all one nonsense, be accursed.
Or if you are a trinitarian at least give me a biblical verse that 1. Proves a 3rd seperate unbegotten deity.
But that won't happen!!!
What will happen Is i will get a bunch of SUNday pope followers pretending that the trinity is biblically based, with out a single scripture to prove their unbiblical philosophies.
What will happen is i will get verses taken outta context pretending they say something they don't.
So will we be discussing matt 28 v 19, and how all the baptisms in the bible are in JESUS name alome.
Or prehaps we are to start with 1 john 5 v 7,8, the 15th century addition, known as the johann comma,, or am I to explain john 1 v 1 correctly, and the word WITH, or explain that Isaiah 9 v 6 is different in the seotugint.
Or prehaps you will give me the lie that God the holy spirit was at the baptism despite JESUS own words at john 5 v 37.
Or will it be God the holy spirit was on the face of the earth during creation when it clearly says God's Spirit.
What will happen is some well meaning , but ultimately decieved trinitarian will send me matt 12 v 31thinking they understand that scripture, when it's actually referring to those who would confess a 3rd seperate non biblical deity, called god the holy spirit.
@@BushGuy-tb1pg arent you comiting matt. 12:31-32? I dont care about trinity. I beleive in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the Scripture says. And i dont look down on people who can not fathom Who God is. I just beleive what scripture says. I avoid saying negative un-Christ-like words to others. I just pray for them. I also beleive (Isaiah 55:8 KJV) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
(Isaiah 55:9 KJV) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
God bless you my brother
Allow the Holy Spirit to be your guide as Jesus promised (John 16:13 KJV) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
My belief is that context and history have very much to do with the perceptions that people arrive at. When the newly revised Seventh-day Adventist Hymnal came out in 1985, there we found that the song Holy, Holy, Holy #73, was revised from what was previously sung. The first and fourth verses contained the words: God in three persons blessed Trinity which raised red flags in the minds of many, including me. I still remembered singing: God over all who rules eternity. Why the change I wondered? And why now?
It took me a while and a bit of information which I think is very relevant to find out why to my way of thinking. Vatican 2 and the Ecumenical Movement now a couple of decades old was in full swing. We were sending a message. We are making an effort to be with you World Council of Churches and by extension Rome. Sure we won't compromise on Sabbath and some other big issues but we can show them that we are trying to get along a bit by using the word trinity. Sure we don't see it like they do, but if we use their term, it will make them feel better and show them that at least we are trying to get along.
I doubt that the compromisers even considered the possible ramifications. For one, they did not foresee the Internet and the wide availability of information not previously available to the ordinary Church member.
I think that we need to return to using the terms Heavenly Trio, Holy Dignitaries, etc. Trinity is loaded and in my opinion, represents confusion and
COMPROMISE. Sorry, that is my true feelings. I hope that I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
P.S Several other suspicious songs were added to the Hymnal and some perfectly good and valid ones removed with the same motive. Scripture Readings in modern versions with their deviant teachings have been added widely. We have by this action allowed Rome to take away our Bibles by bringing in confusion.
Rather than phrasing this video as the 'Anti-TtriNity Controversy', would it not be more appropriate to title it the TtriNity Controversy?
At least within our denomination... since the TtriNity as the intruder, came after.
Right?
That would be like calling the Health Message a controversy as we ate pork until 1863 and the diet reform came after.
Our pioneers were binitarian prior to the 1890s publication of Desire of Ages. Once DA arrived, they accepted the third divine person and were able to call themselves believers in a trinity(which requires three persons):
“I was in the same place that Brother Daniells was, and was taught the same things [that Christ was the beginning of God’s creative work, that to speak of the third person of the Godhead or of the trinity was heretical] by authority, and without doing my own thinking or studying I suppose [sic] I was right. But I found out something different.” (1919 Bible Conference Transcripts, July 6, 1919, 58.)
"“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
Your pork analogy is quite unfitting, if not baffling.
You choose 1863 as the start date, which is proper. Since then has our stance changed? Of course not. We still do NOT condone pork.
And yet when we come the the elephant in the room, the fundamental belief of who our God is, our position has changed manifestly.
So again, your pork parallel is incongruous.@@chrischung2365
@@chrischung2365 18 years AFTER his 1913 “divine Trinity” statement, he wrote an apology for previously saying, in the Review and Herald, that Christ was the “one and only true God”. This is what he wrote in his apology
“When we referred to Christ as the “one and only true God,” the thought in mind was to contrast Him with the gods of the heathen world.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, October 29 1931 pg. 3, ‘Christ is Very God’)
If this is what Wilcox meant he should have said so. As it was, he made no mention of this in his article. Hence Wilcox confessed:
“The expression was not properly elucidated, and so was unfortunate.” (Ibid)
After his apology, Wilcox explained the ‘trinity’ he was advocating (which he claimed was held by SDA’s). Here is what he said
“We recognize the divine Trinity,- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,-each possessing a distinct and separate personality, but one in nature and in purpose, so welded together in this infinite union that the apostle James speaks of them as “one God.” James 2:19. THIS DIVINE UNITY IS SIMILAR TO THE UNITY EXISTING BETWEEN CHRIST AND THE BELIEVER AND BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT BELIEVERS IN THEIR FELLOWSHIP IN CHRIST JESUS.”
@@chrischung2365 The Spririt of God wasn't needing clarification back then, but Jesus' divine Sonship was and still is; hence, non-trinitarian and some were vocally against the RC dogma, too.
❤️❤️
If the 1872 statement is not written in stone, does that also apply to our understanding of the Sabbath or the state of the dead, or any of the other fundamental beliefs???
Each of those are Biblically Sound including the teaching about the GODHEAD..
@@msladymack1960 1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The Father is the Godhead, Christ came to reveal the Godhead.
In scripture Godhead is a synonym for the word Divine, it is not referring to a group or committee of more than one.
@@francois1546
You're ot a SDA. Come out of your shadows.
@@larrybedouin2921I’m sorry brother, but ALL the pioneers and EGW did not believe in the trinity: they did not believe that One God is 3 persons and viceversa.
@@larrybedouin2921 “The present is a solemn, fearful time for the church. The angels are already girded, awaiting the mandate of God to pour their vials of wrath upon the world. Destroying angels are taking up the work of vengeance, for the Spirit of God is gradually withdrawing from the world. Satan is also mustering his forces of evil, going forth ‘unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,’ to gather them under his banner, to be trained for “the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Satan is to make most powerful efforts for the mastery in the last great conflict. FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES will be brought out, and decisions made in regard to them. Skepticism is prevailing everywhere. Ungodliness abounds. The faith of individual members of the church will be tested as though there were not another person in the world…” - {Ellen G. White, Ms1a-1890.8; 1890}
Let’s see what those FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES are?
At 5:01 Pr. Steve says "And many times our members are not prepared for the arguments that are being presented to them from the antitrinitarian group because they just don't have the background, they don't know their Bibles well enough, they don't have a grasp of Adventist history.....etc."
This is very true. And this is precisely why they accepted the Trinity dogma in the first place. Those who know their Bibles would never be so quickly fooled. Jesus is so clear that the Father is the only true God (John 17:3) and was both _his_ God and _our_ God (John 20:17). God is not a man nor the son of man (Numbers 23:19), but Jesus calls himself the son of man (Matthew 16:13). God is not the God of the dead (Matthew 22:32) but Jesus is the Lord of the dead (Romans 14:9). No man has seen God at any time (1 John 4:12; John 1:18), but multitudes saw Jesus. God is immortal (1 Timothy 1:17), but Jesus died.
Even Ellen White, whom Adventists claim was a prophet, says "The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty...." How, then, can Adventists have been so easily fooled into disregarding the first of all commandments? (See Mark 12:29 where Jesus references this.)
Does God have a name(s) yes\ Does Jesus have name(s)yes \
Does this Spirit being so called have a name ( NO ) GOD says he will put his Spirit in us.Not a third God called the Spirit 3rd person.
this 3rd person being been Begotten
Has JESUS GODS ONLY BEGOTEN SON AND NO OTHER....IS THIS THIRD PERSON BEGOTTEN. ""NO"" dont be mislead by the originally started pagan catholic trinity doctrine.
Christ gave His representative, the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. This gift could not be excelled. The divine Spirit, converting, enlightening, sanctifying, would be His donation, because He would give all gifts in one. {Ms44-1898.11, March 29, 1898, par. 11}
There are approximately eight billion humans, but one humanity. Similarly there are three divine persons who constitute on God. 19:51
Proverbs 30:4 -- Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Exodus 3:13, 14 -- And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Hebrews 1:4, 5 -- Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
According to the above Scriptures, Jesus inherited the name of His Father (YAHWEH) by birth. So it is today, children inherit the name of their father by birth.
To add to what @user-sr2eh7sj9q said, simply because God has not revealed in his Word the name of the Holy Spirit, if he has a name, does not mean that the Holy Spirit does not have a name.
So many things you say Steve are contrary to reality. You know that trinitarians don't believe that God died. Only the human. So you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Marriage the Bible says MAN & WOMEN Become one ( in shared nature ) not physically one.Same as God and his Son become one in nature.only
@MikeHurley-gy5yc, same as God and His Son become one in holy spirit too?
Amen 🙏
It is interesting Pastor Wohlberg, I was once a (self-titled) non-trinitarian for about a year, who used those verses you mentioned that they use. It wasn’t until I had a better understanding of how God is one (a quote from Sister White talks about them being united in mind, character and purpose, if I remember correctly), that I became a trinitarian again. I used to eat up the anti-trinitarian videos on YT, but praise God He set me free and straight on this truth.
To God be the Glory!
Matthew 3:16-17 (WEB) Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him.
Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 10:20 (WEB) For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
Matthew 18:20 (NET) For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them.”
Matthew 12:28 (WEB) But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then God’s Kingdom has come upon you.
John 3:34 (WEB) For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure.
John 4:24 (WEB) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 14:16 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
▪︎▪︎So, who is that "another Comforter"?
Is it for real another person?, another being?, another entity?.
Because if you think it is another different entity, then you are getting into spiritualism, which is a dangerous route.
However, that "another" might be "another of the same". You might think it's a little confusing what I'm saying, but in order to understand let's see,
John 16:13 (WEB) However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
▪︎On this verse, Jesus was warning the disciples to be careful about who is that spirit. He told them that this spirit is the Spirit of truth; that he(that spirit) will not speak from himself; but whatever he(sp) hears, he(sp) will speak.
▪︎This are exactly the same words that Jesus said of Himself to the priests, see
John 12:49-50 (WEB) For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.”
Jesus said to Philip
John 14:10 (WEB) Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
Now when it comes to us about testifying Jesus counseled us
Matthew 10:19 (KJV) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Matthew 10:20 (WEB) For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
▪︎How, then, this happens? See,
Ephesians 2:18 (WEB) For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Romans 8:9 (WEB) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
Romans 8:11 (WEB) But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Isaiah 42:1 (WEB) “Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights: I have put my Spirit on him. He will bring justice to the nations.
John 14:18 (KJV) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. See Matthew 18:20 (NET) For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them.”
Galatians 4:4-6 (KJV) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Ephesians 2:18 (KJV) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
1 Peter 1:11 (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Ephesians 2:13, 18 (KJV) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
2 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Spirit Definition
American Heritage Dictionary:
"Part of a human associated with the mind, will and feelings.
•••
Mind = intellect, reason, common sense, etc.
Will = desires, wishes, wants, etc.
Feelings = emotions, fervor, passion, sentiment, etc.
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Ellen White?
Ellen White wrote that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which has confused some. Please allow me to explain why she said this and reveal the real truth on the Holy Spirit.
“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency,” - MR 14, p. 84
“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST.” - Letter 66, April 10, 1894
“but it is the leaven of the SPIRIT of JESUS CHRIST, which is sent down from heaven, called the HOLY GHOST,”
- Manuscript 36-1891
Q.- So why did Ellen White frequently call the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ when the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of God or the Spirit of the Father?
A.- Because the Holy Spirit is the mind, power and personal presence of the very life of God that the Father gave to His Son, and offers it through His Son to us. This is not a separate person of the Godhead who is being sent, it is the very life of God coming to us through His Son.
“The divine Spirit that the world’s Redeemer promised to send, is the presence and power of God.” - Signs of the Times, November 23, 1891
Thank You Jesus!🙌🏽
Please do it for many more 🙏🏽
That is a wonderful testimony, thank you and glory to God
He has saved you from a Jesuit deception
The scriptural gymnastics this guy is doing to explain paradise today, doesn’t mean paradise today, or the word one without differentiating echad as one (adam&eve, one flesh) arch as first or one etc
Mankind will do just about anything to keep their traditions
John 20:27-29: "Then Jesus said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.' Thomas replied, 'MY LORD AND MY GOD!' Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, YOU HAVE BELIEVED; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'
Thomas recognized Jesus as Lord AND God. Jesus did not accuse Thomas of blasphemy. Rather, Jesus affirmed Thomas' statement as a statement of faith. This Bible verse points out that the disciples recognized Jesus not only as Lord but ALSO as God.
Christ is called GOD because the FATHER wants it that way.
Hebrews 1:8,9 says But onto the SON HE SAITH thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever....
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; THEREFORE GOD, EVEN THY GOD, hath ANOINTED THEE with the oil of gladness.
Notice, the Father called the SON GOD and ANOINTED HIM.
Moreover THE FATHER says YOUR GOD.
For it PLEASED the FATHER that in HIM SHOULD ALL FULNESS DWELL. ( Colossians 1:29). Supposed that the FATHER wasn't pleased?
Remember that JESUS CHRIST other name is Michael which means "who is like GOD.
The answer is, HiS SON CHRIST IS LIKE GOD.
Prayerfully.
@@johnnydo5658 How God is associative?
Yes CHRIST JESUS is MIGHTY GOD ( Isaiah 9:6). But the FATHER IS ALMIGHTY GOD and the Most HIGH GOD (Revelation 5:8;10)
Luke 8:28 The demon says to CHRIST JESUS "What have I to do with you JESUS, you SON OF GOD MOST HIGH.
Moreover, CHRIST says in John 10:34 Is it not written in your law you are gods? JESUS is quoting Psalm 82:6.
In addition Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:17 " But he that is JOINED unto the LORD is ONE SPIRIT.
OK, so you are a god and ONE SPIRIT; THAT DOES NOT MAKE US GOD .
JUST LIKE CHRIST JESUS IS GOD, BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF A DIVINE GOD.
Thank you.
I don't believe in the Trinity but Jesus is 100% God
@@SuperRoseknows Amen! We need to differentiate between JESUS AND CHRIST. JESUS is the 100% human side. CHRIST on the other hand is te 100% DIVINE side of the SON of GOD.
Matthew 1:16 says " And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was BORN JESUS, WHO IS THE CHRIST.
This why Hebrews 10:5 says " A BODY HATH THOU PREPARED FOR ME..
This why Peter says in Matthew 16:16 YOU (JESUS) are the CHRIST (the DIVINE)
BLESSINGS!
The problem that the pioneers had with the trinity is that it destroys the personality of God. Ask yourself, is your God a Person? With a physical body? Or as a misterious union manifested in three persons? Search for the personality of God, study that principle in the Bible. Every explanation the pastor gave was mainly based in his opinion. The omega of apostasy is the spiritualistic concept of God that is required for a true trinitarian concept. One physical person can not be 3 persons, God is a person, we were made in his image, that is the great pronciple to uphold
Amém I am created in the image of God and I am so happy and I want to see my father my creator when I get to heaven ❤
They have to work very hard to prove their lies from the Bible and distort everything to prove an error 😅
Agreed!!! We as his creation are an illustration of who he is - he even made us to have children! AND he made Eve FROM a part of Adam! An example for us to be able to understand that he was able to have a son (without going into the bedroom of God) We beget children like us to be humans as do the animals and plant bring forth of thier kind! We do not believe that we have floaty spirits and so why would we think God has a floaty spirit guy separate from himself (?)! … it is ultimately spiritualism! The Old Testament patriarchs and prophets didn’t believe that Gods spirit was another being! They understood him rightly, and even Nebuchadnezzar knew there was a Son of God for him to be able to recognize him in the fiery furnace !!! How would he know of this because he was around the Hebrew children who must have spoken about this.
Amen that I am created in the image of God . The trinity doctrine rejects this idea that God is also a personal God 😅
I have never heard such a stream of nonsense. Pastor Wohlberg has managed to make a text as simple and clear as John 17:3 incomprehensible.
In Revelation 4, God is clearly identified as one being. And in Revelation 5 we clearly see the Son of God and these two chapters insist on worshiping God and his Son alone. To say that Adventist non-trinitarians reject the divinity of Jesus is totally false. It is the same accusation that was made against the pioneers but by non-Adventists. (RH December 5, 1893, par. 5).
He quotes Desire of Ages to show that EGW changed and believed that Jesus is the Most High God however in Selected Messages vol 1 p296.2 she states:
The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. “I lay it down of myself” (John 10:18), He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:3). This is the open fountain of life for the world. . 1SM 296.2
John 5:26 (KJV)
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And what about this quote from 1905:
« "The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality. » UL 367.4(The Upward Look)
Manuscript 116, December 19, 1905,. UL 367.6
Has she changed?
Ellen White is true to the Bible and nowhere in the Bible does it teach that God is made up of three beings! But the Bible teaches us that God is the father of Jesus.
Refusing Christ's own words is what sifts the church.
John 8:54 (KJV)
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God
I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people.
I saw that the testimony of the True. EW 270.2-EW 270.3
Refusing Christ' own words, that's what's shaking up the church.
Dear Pastor, you are missing the point.
Very good response.
Amen!
Right on !!
Amen!!!
God bless you superabundantly! The truth will always be the truth.
There's no trinity in the word of God. This's is from the Catholic religion. Read history
Exactly... God is One!
Are you joking? Since this trinity business is so ridiculous. So? lets play the game. and make it more ridiculous. Like I am a trinity? "me", "myself", and "I"? hows that for a trinity? LOL
@@augustusmageto7435Proof?
SO? WHO DO YOU WORSHIP/OBEY? ONE GOD the SUPREME ONE/Almight.
It is written??????? John 14:15 If ye love me, keep(OBEY) my commandments. (I wonder why Jesus use the word "IF")(SHOW ME, DON'T TELL ME)
14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth(obeys)them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
It is written??????? Exodus 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
"It is written???????" Isaiah 46:8 Remember this, and show yourselves men: bring [it] again to mind, O ye transgressors.
46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,
46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
"It is written???????" 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
It is written??????? John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
It is written??????? Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
It is written??????? Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord
It is written??????? John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
It is written??????? 1 Corinthians 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
It is written??????? Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
It is written??????? 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
It is written??????? 1 Corinthians 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
"It is written???????" Isaiah 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
"It is written???????" Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It is written??????? Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
"It is written???????" John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
It is written??????? Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
It is written??????? 2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
It is written??????? Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
"It is written" John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
5:41 I receive not honour from men.
5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
"It is written???????" John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
"It is written???????" Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Rome, and her “God” is thrilled that Steve has accepted her doctrine of the trinity , and is teaching people to worship another god. Should people come to the word of God with out preconceived ideas , they would never ever come up naming God the Father a trinity.
The doctrine of Jesus is Both, Father and Son.
The Trinity is three.
Life eternal is only to know two, the only true God , and his only begotten Son.
The Trinity doctrine denies the literal begotten Son, and makes him as old as his own masquerading Father.
The Trinity makes the Holy Spirit the real Father of Jesus.
The Trinity doctrine was developed overtime. Even the sda admitted that the trinity is not really taught in the word of God, but by faith we accept it. It is an assumed doctrine not really taught. I never want to assume anything for my salvation.
Rome couldn’t be so much happier than for Steve to be deceiving God’s remnant Church.
Time life magazine Graham Greene the assumption of Mary dated October 30, 1950 on page 51. Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture. But The protestant churches have them self excepted such dogmas as the Trinity for which there is no such precise authority in the Gospels.
If you accept the Trinity Doctrine you will accept Sunday worship . Both trinity and Sunday worship are about who you worship. They are in bed together.
I have never ever read where God the Father told us humans to call him, a trinity.
How can Most High God be three?
How can the God and Father of Jesus be three?
When did Jesus ever say when ye pray, pray our one God in three, including myself?
When Jesus died on the cross he cried out to himself, my God, my God?
When Jesus said his Father was head over him, he really meant he himself was over himself?
The trinitarian believes in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are all God by themselves co- eternal, coequal, self existence but yet They are not three gods but they are one God. If this is true who and how did one of them become the Father, And who and how did the other two become the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
Something to think about here , if these three begins co- equal, co-eternal, and self existent God’s, what did the other two God being persons sacrifice when one of them died for us?
And one more thing if it is true that these three beings co-eternal, coequal self existent gods , each of them must be immortal , otherwise he is not God. The question is how can one of them die on the cross when he is immortal ? The Trinity doctrine completely destroys the Father and Son relationship. It makes the Son as old as his own Father. Co-eternal means same age.
Steve will never ever be able to give the 3rd angel message or anyone else who teaches the trinity gods.
In the 1858 Mrs. White tells us, in order to give the 3rd angel’s message, we must have the 1st and 2nd angel’s message in the order that were given from those who HAD it, or have no part in the 3rd angel’s message.
In the RH March 6, 1855 we can see on the front page of that Ed the second angel is rejecting the trinity. It’s on the right bottom col, #2.
The shame will be on the head of these false pastors who are rejecting God the Father and his only begotten Son.
Mrs. White again in the original 1858 great controversy has this to say,
Many of those who cherish the sacred light, broke the cords which bound them, and stood out separate from those companies. And as many were breaking the cords which bound them, men belonging to these different companies, who were Reverend by them, pass through the companies, and some with pleasing words, and others with wrathful looks and threatening gestures, fasten the cords which were weakening, and were constantly saying, God is with us. We stand in the light. We have the truth. I inquired who these men were. I was told that they were ministers, and leading men, who had rejected the light themselves and were unwilling that others should receive it.
I do believe we have seen this in our day. All the protestant churches are united because of the trinity and will except Sunday worship.
Ingo Sorke is a SDA pastor who is telling the truth. Look for him on RUclips. There are many SDA pastors who will not bow down to Rome’s worship and her doctrines. The Trinity and Sunday worship.
To join the World Council of Churches, each denomination must accept the Trinity doctrine.
And become part of antichrist.
And receive the next paycheck….
That does not bother then one bit!
Completely unneeded
"“For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,- 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption.” (F. M. Wilcox, Review and Herald, 9th October 1913,)
From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character. YI Chapter 242
If as human beings we were to understand everything about God and His government, He would cease to be God. God's wisdom is infinite, so as finite beings we accept what He chooses to reveal to us. No need to lose our Christian experience per over not being able to understand or explain scripture. In eternity everything will be made plain for we will be forever learning. So keep the faith.
@@joycehenry88 Well said. However, we seem to have an issue here where some folks believe they have sufficiently superior discernment to contrive a creed by reading between the lines, and their creed is so sacrosanct that they have NO QUALMS about beating up their brethren who have the temerity to DISAGREE with their "new light." In so doing they believe that they are doing "the Lord's work," in spite of the wealth of guidance sister White left us. And nevermind Jesus' prayer to His Father for our unity!
Joyce Henry Thanks!!!. Isa 8:20 summed it up To the Law and the testonomy, If they speak NOT according to this word it is because there is no light in them. Any one who has rejected Gods law has rejected the Law Giver and sadly God will bring on them strong delusions that they will believe a lie who have pleasure in unrighteousness or iniquity All I know is that these three powers of heaven are doing all.they can to save us from sin . Isa 1:18 says come let us reason together says the Lord( Jehovah) though your sins are as scarlet I will make them white as snow and that is good enough for me . Sometimes people argue for the sake of arguing
@@joycehenry88 This is the cop out ppl use to remain ignorant about God. It makes no logical sense to believe that God would outlaw the worship of false gods and then fail to explain who He is so ppl can tell the difference. Considering the fact that idolatry is listed in Galatians and Revelation as a sin that will keep someone out of God's Kingdom, it makes 0 sense to believe God wouldn't establish who and what He is.
I have found this discussion so interesting and insightful.
I like how the questions were asked and disagreements stated yet everyone remained respectful and seemed to speak out of humility and a sincere desire for understanding….
I wanted to touch on the statement about the two not being completely identical…
What is that saying??
I am so sad, we need the truth not opinion
"If Christ is not God essentially and in the highest sense, if He is not self-existent and self-existing, then we have a saviour who is not God in himself, who owes his life to another, who has had a beginning and may, therefore, have an end. Thus Christ’s saving work sinks into insignificance. God simply brought into existence a being who was to die for us; or perhaps more correctly, who was to die to save God from making any personal sacrifice. But this is belittling and derogatory to God and to His character."
ML Andreasen The Faith of Jesus 1949, p.22
So true. I cannot believe that Chris keeps quoting the words of ordinary men as if they carry some special weight. They are mere men! It is their opinion just like his. An opinion! And a worthless one's at that.
@@chrischung2365 wait, didn’t Christ suffer an end when He died?
@@wetravel2841 When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible. LHU 76.2
@@chrischung2365 so if it’s only the “nature” of His humanity that died, then did He or did He not suffer an end at the cross?
Only Adventists pastors teach trinity, triune....
No bible prophet
No Jesus's disciples
Or
Jesus taught trinity.....
Its a manmade gospel.
Time will tell.
Steve you are wrong
Another Rhyme
for my fellow SDA's...
Who is the Me
with eyesalve do I see
Is it not He... by the olive tree?
Inside the most holy sanctuary?
This Me is that He that sets me free,
He delivered me from the beast,
that rose out of the sea
who's gods are three...such blasphemy.
He commands decrees and bended knee.
Exchange my soul?...this is his fee.
So I ask thee, heed my plea.
Why be ye... a church pew... retiree?
Let us seek and find the He... the none beside Me.
Through him that hath...David's key.
His Son brought forth, begotten... in antiquity.
The express image of the ME...divinity.
So then ? Shall we meet by that tree?
Beside the river we share our stories, with joyous glee.
Our celebration, our triumph...our Jubilee.
❤️❤️Hidden bread dipped in butter, dripping with honey. Come dine at my Father’s wedding feast.
Should Christians use the phrases God the Son and God the Spirit?
Since the Trinity doctrine teaches a three in one God, then Trinitarians use the corresponding phrases “God the Father,” “god the son” and “god the spirit.” They call all three gods. But since the Bible says there is only one God, then Trinitarians have to say that all three are the one God.
If this were true, then indeed the Bible would use these phrases and call them all God. So is it true? Does the Bible say this? No! If there really were three God's then the Bible would use these phrases. But it doesn't because there isn't. The Bible means what it says and says what it means!
It says there is only one God being “God the Father” and so the Father is the only one called God. The phrases “god the son” and “god the spirit” do not exist anywhere in Scripture, not even once! These phrases originated from the Catholic Church and were made up to match the doctrine they created.
The Bible uses the phrase “Son of God” because that is who He is. And it uses “Spirit of God” or “Spirit of the Father” as that is what it is. So why are Trinitarians using made up phrases that have an entirely different meaning and hence are not found in the Bible?
If you are using the Catholic phrases “god the son” or “god the spirit,” that never originated from Scripture, then you are following the Papal Church and antichrist, not the inspired words of God.
If the trinity is a mystery then why 😢😂then trying to explain.
Stephen. N. Haskell on the Trinity
SN Haskell on the Trinity
“The rainbow in the clouds is but a symbol of the rainbow which has encircled the throne from eternity. Back in the ages, which finite mind cannot fathom, the Father and Son were alone in the universe. Christ was the first begotten of the Father, and to Him Jehovah made known the divine plan of Creation. The plan of the creation of worlds was unfolded, together with the order of beings which should people them. Angels, as representatives of one order, would be ministers of the God of the universe. The creation of our own little world, was included in the deep-laid plans. The fall of Lucifer was foreseen; likewise the possibility of the introduction of sin, which would mar the perfection of the divine handiwork. It was then, in those early councils, that Christ’s heart of love was touched; and the only begotten Son pledged His life to redeem man, should he yield and fall. Father and Son, surrounded by impenetrable glory, clasped hands. It was in appreciation of this offer, that upon Christ was bestowed creative power, and the everlasting covenant was made; and henceforth Father and Son, with one mind, worked together to complete the work of creation. Sacrifice of self for the good of others was the foundation of it all.” (Stephen N. Haskell, The Story of the Seer of Patmos, pages 93, 94, 1905)
“Before the creation of our world, “there was war in heaven.” Christ and the Father covenanted together; and Lucifer, the covering cherub, grew jealous because he was not admitted into the eternal councils of the Two who sat upon the throne.” (Stephen N. Haskell, The Story of the Seer of Patmos, pages 217, 1905)
“Christ was the firstborn in heaven; He was likewise the firstborn of God upon earth, and heir to the Father’s throne. Christ, the firstborn, though the Son of God, was clothed in humanity, and was made perfect through suffering. He took the form of man, and through eternity, He will remain a man.” (Stephen N. Haskell, The Story of the Seer of Patmos, pages 98, 99, 1905)
Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word “first-born” (Greek word “prototokos”) signifies priority.
In the culture of the Bible times, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child but refers primarily to position, rank and priority of position.
In fact, the ancient Rabbis called Yahweh Himself "Firstborn of the World"
"While no single scriptural passage states formally the doctrine of the Trinity, it is assumed as a fact by Bible writers. ... Only by faith can we accept the existence of the Trinity." -- Adventist Review, July 30, 1891, p.4 ASSUMED by non-inspired Biblical writers .... and ONLY BY FAITH can we accept this blasphemous doctrine. Is there any other doctrine that SDAs hold that that have to believe 'by faith'? Aren't our doctrines established on a "Thus saith the LORD"? Just asking........
I'm new in this antitrinitarian / non-trinitarian camp after many years of ignorance; where can I find a similar group of people on the East Coast?
Praise God you are able to see the light! There are many groups online and they meet in Zoom or other online groups, but I feel you - I wish I could find even a home church I could go to in my area! I love love love ❤️ the Adventist message and the true Adventist message with the truth will move forward because God can only bless the truth about him! Pray for a home church or that you can start one! God bless you!
I have been a SDA for years and never realized when the church say "Third person" they meant what they meant.
I only realized it recently and was VERY shocked to realize the church believes in the Trinity as the Catholics.
I have never seen the Holy Spirit as a separate "being"
Neither did the pioneers if you study it yourself.
But has ALWAYS seen it as God and Jesus' Spirit that is in all angles, people and created beings that lead us to God and in truth and give us life.
Trinity=Sunday=Antichrist
GodHead=Sabbath=True God
You cant mix these up.
If the Holy Spirit is a different "person" why isn't He mentioned in Rev 1:1 as a person?(He must have been 3rd in heaven in rank then?)
or in Rev 22:3 He doesn't sit on the throne with God and Jesus.If the Holy Spirit is a person surely in the end He will be on the thone as well as a'person' then to be honoured as well?
The Bible never mention that.
I hear you get voted out of chuch for not believing in the trinity?Yet they are ok with abortion in our official church letter.Maybe we should read our Bibles and SOP ourselves rather than listening to leaders in the church then Gods Holy Spirit can convince us instead of wrong teachings of men.
Always remember it was church leaders that crucified Jesus with Rome and leaders will lead you astray in the end times as well.
I wonder how do you connected Sunday to antichrist and the word Sunday doesn't even appear in the Bible?
Thank you for your rational presentation on this topic. Error is often subtle and difficult to discern and you have made the issues clear.
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS (IS) GOD 😇🙏🙇🏻♂️ PERIOD 😇😍🥰 THE SHAKING IS HAPPENING 🤩 ALL THOSE NOT SET IN STONE WILL FALL OUT ☹️ WE WHO BELIEVE THE TRUTH WILL LIVE FOREVER WITH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST FOREVER & EVER AMEN 🙇🏻♂️😇🥰😍
EGW's warning of the changes.
“I am charged to tell our people that they do not realize that the devil has device and device, and he carries them out in ways that they do not expect. Satan’s agencies will invent ways to make sinners out of saints. I tell you now, that when I am laid to rest, great changes will take place. I do not know when I shall be taken; and I desire to warn all against the devices of the devil. I want the people to know that I warned them fully before my death.” - Manuscript 1, February 24, 1915
"Now the Lord is that Spirit..." (2 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV)
In John 17:3, Jesus defined eternal life saying, “This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
"I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do." (John 17:4)
When Jesus prayed aloud to His Father, His disciples learned that Jesus glorified His Father by finishing everything His Father sent Him to do. His Father had sent Him “so that everyone who believes in Him [ in Jesus, "His only begotten Son" John 3.16 KJV] may not perish but may have eternal life” (John 3:16).
By Jesus’ loving and caring ways, may you came to know the Father and the Son! Everlasting blessings, precious brother in Christ!
Sunday is in honor of the pagan Trinity ask the Pope, Steve you need to write a book on the Origin of the pagan trinity old and New Testament
Acts 20:7, And upon the FIRST DAY of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight.
@TheRazor666777 - This book is already written and I can assure you it is an eye opener. Gives the full details of the true origin of the trinity. It’s too bad so many SDAs refuse to listen to truth and will be blinded to the very end at the expense of their soul’s salvation.
@@michellebrouet8448why does this have to be a soul losing topic ? What difference does it make whether you believe in 3 or 2 or 1 in the godhead as far as your salvation is concerned ?
@ronmetcalf2889 - yes indeed it is a soul salvation matter. The bible is very clear in the 1st commandment, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. The trinity doctrine introduces a different god, not the Almighty God of the bible. It also brings in a third “god” namely god the holy spirit which is not biblical but in fact had its origin in paganism. This is what satan wanted in heaven. Worship. In order to understand this you need to understand the origin of the trinity and 666. The book of Ezekiel clearly states the worship of Tammuz as the great abomination which forms the foundation of the trinity doctrine as part of sun worship. I would love to explain this in greater detail to you. Let me know if you are interested in learning more and if yes, how can I get in touch with you. Do not want to overload you here on this platform.
You can also check RUclips for a video called “Gods of Babylon” by a brother and friend named Nader Mansour. He has a wealth of information as well on the true identity of the Holy Spirit.
You can have the correct day of worship (Saturday) but the wrong God.
Regards and God bless,
Michelle
@@ronmetcalf2889 John 17:3 .Matthew 16:18 (upon the statement of Peter he will build the church)
Wonder why the title of this presentation says Wohlberg addresses SDA Leadership. Seemed to me he was speaking to/with a small group somewhere (northern Idaho?).
Never mind, I see that he did give the talk on Mar 9 to ministerial directors.
My oh my, this comment section is astir!
Praise God! Our heavenly Father!
Great presentation Steve. Thank you. God bless you.
30 FACTS about Ellen White, the Trinity and the SDA Church.
1. Ellen White never used the word Trinity or Triune God or the pagan three in one formula in any way whatsoever.
2. She also never used the Catholic phrases God the Son or God the Holy Spirit used by Trinitarians.
3. She used the term third person only to refer to the Spirit of Christ and hence is different to the Trinitarian meaning.
4. Hence she never used the terms first person or second person since third person was non-Trinitarian to her.
5. She states that God sent her from place to place to rebuke those who were teaching false doctrines.
6. She never corrected her husband or the early pioneers for their anti-Trinitarian teaching.
7. From 1844 God also had her correct those teaching false ideas about God but how can she do that if she is in error?
8. In 1905, Ellen White wrote that God told her to reproduce the works of the pioneers that were anti-Trinitarian.
9. The above points make sense because the non-Trinitarian view was God given and one of the Pillars of Faith.
10. Ellen White corrected Kellogg not just for Pantheism but for teaching the trinity doctrine and the Holy Spirit as god.
11. The world saw the Adventist Church and Ellen White as being non-Trinitarian two years before her death.
12. The Church stopped printing their official stand of no Trinity in the Yearbook the year Mrs. White died.
13. She never requested that her books be re-edited and the non-Trinitarian thoughts removed since they were truth.
14. In 1905, Ellen White wrote that God never told her to change anything that she ever wrote since she was a girl.
15. It is claimed Ellen White became a Trinitarian before 1895 but in 1905 she wrote that she never changed anything.
16. It is claimed she was Trinitarian when she wrote the Desire of Ages and yet this book is full of non-Trinitarian quotes.
17. After this she wrote that what was truth in the beginning was truth now and that new truths never contradicted the old.
18. Well after the Desire of Ages she strongly promoted non-Trinitarian books to the world that Froom later had edited.
19. The change and so called greater light originated from sources outside of the Seventh day Adventist Church.
20. It is alleged that Adventist LeRoy Froom was seen working as a Catholic priest prior to entering the Church.
21. Froom deliberately set out to find anything that Ellen White wrote that could be wrongly interpreted as being Trinitarian.
22. Froom had to search over 100,000 pages of Ellen White's writings to find a handful of misunderstood quotes.
23. The quotes are misunderstood because most do not know that Ellen White says the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
24. Thus she teaches that the Comforter, Spirit of truth and the Spirit that Christ breathed on His disciples was His Spirit.
25. Ellen White states that the “third person” in the “three great powers” and the “heavenly trio” is in fact the Spirit of Christ.
26. So we also find that she called the Spirit of Christ a “person” which is where most of the confusion comes from.
27. She calls His Spirit a person because His Spirit can function independently of Himself and so it is like it is another.
28. Ellen White never told anyone she was a Trinitarian and so this was only wrongly assumed years after her death.
29. The only Biblical support for the trinity doctrine was not from God but was added by our adversary to pervert the truth.
30. Ellen White wrote non-Trinitarian statements all the way to her death and all you have to do is look and see!
Wonderful post! AMEN
You're blessed. Let's keep lifting up our voices like the trumpet. Perhaps some will hear and be converted.
The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-Special Testimonies, Series B, 7:62, 63. (1905).
The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism,and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. MS 57 - 1900.
“Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead,who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullnessof divine power” (DA p. 671).
@@stephenroesler4919 We're not opposing the fact and truth that there is The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We're opposing the Trinity Doctrine which is not in accordance with Scripture and which our true pioneers never believed and taught as SDAs. Ellen White believed in the 3 great powers of heaven (the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit). But she never believed in the Trinity. She herself never used the word to express or represent her belief about the Godhead. That should tell you a lot about her attitude towards the term. She knew the Trinity does not represent what Scripture teaches and so she totally avoided the term. The modern SDA church, through the intrigues and deception of such men as Leroy Froom, have embraced a doctrine that is MOST DETRIMENTAL to the Faith of Jesus Christ.
If the spirit and the bride say come, who is the bride and who is the spirit?
Right at the 24 minute mark you quote Desire of ages unbegotten underived. Indeed she wrote this and indeed the life he has was in his own words received from his Father, yet he will give it to us in the end. You then add to statements to her words as if she said them using the word Unique. You are here adding to her words inspired of the spirit of Christ, dangerous ground.
@the 24:16 mark Steve also defines the word begotten as 'unique'. He thereby imposes a private interpretation on the said word.
This also is dangerous ground.
Both Strong's and Young's concordance depict the Greek word MONOGENES translated to begotten as sole born/only child.
@@SevenThunders-si4ciI wonder if any of these word semantics will make one human inherit eternal life. I know a pagan, and idolator will not.
Not sure I follow you.
Are you saying that the origin of Christ is insignificant?
Christ's description of himself in John 3:16 is a mere triviality?
You say semantics.
I say Christ begotten is the most monumental truth of our Bible.
And for anyone to belittle it or distort it, is then confronted with 1 John 2:22.
You are familiar with the text, Yes? @@user-rz9yd5gx2c
True. A constantly abused quote while denying another that shows it very abused.
“Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life.” - (Desire of Ages, p. 530) - Evangelism p. 616.2
Trinitarians assume this means Christ has always existed, but in a later writing she reveals that is not what she was saying.
“He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can POSSESS IT ONLY THROUGH CHRIST. He cannot earn it; IT IS GIVEN HIM as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as His personal Saviour.” - (E.G. White, ST, April 8, 1897)
Note that this original, unborrowed and underived life can also be GIVEN to man. The life of Christ was original, unborrowed and underived as it was given to Him by His Father.
“For as the Father has life in Himself; so has He given to the Son to have life in Himself;” John 5:26
If Jesus had always existed alongside the Father as the Trinity doctrine claims, then God could not have given life to His Son as He would have always had life. But Scripture reveals this is impossible and that Christ is the literal Son of God.
She also wrote, “ALL THINGS CHRIST RECEIVED FROM GOD, but He took to give.” - (E.G. White, DA, p. 21)
And since the life of the Father has been given to His Son, then that means Christ is also self-existent. So the Father gave this life to His Son and through Christ it can be given to us also.
As I listened further, another question came up. If I listened correctly, did the speaker quote E.G. White saying "when it comes to the deity, we need to stick with what He has revealed"? Revealed where? is my question, In the Scripture or in E.G. White statements that are being picked up randomly even out of context? I still need a clear answer from the Bible ONLY where God (Christ) says He is equal with His Father and the Holy Spirit, at least ONE (1) verse.
Amen to the power of our strong movement! Pastor Wohlberg, With all due respect, do you really think that 40 minutes of shifting commas, explaining the Father/Son relationship away from John 17, and qualifying the beliefs of our dear pioneers will stifle a 2000+ year old understanding? The Lord is coming soon, and His Father will welcome us all in Heaven! So glad I can talk to God my Father and don’t need to address a „Godhead“. Here at Los Alamos, „Trinity“ was a code synonymous for the potential of mass destruction. Perhaps there is a spiritual analogy here? If we like it or not, church history is crystal clear about this: the Trinity doctrine is a gift from the beast and the dragon. It will be tossed where it belongs-into the lake of fire. But on one statement I do wholeheartedly agree: the non-trinitarian movement is not going to go away soon. Amen again to that!
I am still disgusted with Steve over his roll in kicking people out of the New Port Church on the border between Idaho and WA. The lack of Godliness and willingness to get rid of members who disagree with his personal beliefs. I will stand in GODS word and offer to those who disagree with my views in Bible understanding because I realize we are ALL on the same path growing in our experience towards being made ready for Eternity in our new home with Jesus as our God, King and High Priest.
I pray GODS loving kindness, patience and mercy will be learned and practiced by all of us towards those who disagree with our own understandings. I pray this to the Father in the name of HIS SON Jesus, Amen (Let it be so {in HIS will}).
BRI admitted that the definition of adventist trinity and Catholic trinity is the same.
Either current adventist, who is trinitarian is right or pioneers, who is non trinitarian is right.
Choose people, who do you want to follow?
That is why our church leaders had a dialog with in 1957 Walter Martin and Barnhouse that led the book QOD.
Andreasen was the chief opponent of QOD. Note his position on this topic:
"How astonished we were when Desire of Ages was first published, for it contained some things that we considered unbelievable; among others the doctrine of the Trinity, which was not generally accepted by the Adventists then. I was particularly interested, in the statement in Desire of Ages which at one time caused great concern to the denomination theologically: 'In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived' (p. 530). That statement may not seem very revolutionary to you, but to us it was. We could hardly believe it. ... I was sure Sister White had never written, 'In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.' But now I found it in her own handwriting just as it had been published.” ML Andreasen
"If Christ is not God essentially and in the highest sense, if He is not self-existent and self-existing, then we have a saviour who is not God in himself, who owes his life to another, who has had a beginning and may, therefore, have an end. Thus Christ’s saving work sinks into insignificance. God simply brought into existence a being who was to die for us; or perhaps more correctly, who was to die to save God from making any personal sacrifice. But this is belittling and derogatory to God and to His character."
ML Andreasen The Faith of Jesus 1949, p.22
You should really study this topic a bit more.
Not sure what Pastor Wolberg is trying to say but I believe that if a Christian believes in the True Living GOD Jehovah Creator of the Universe (Psalm 83:18) who is a jealous GOD and warns us over and over in the Old Testament on worship to idols or other gods then no one, not one should be worshipped.
Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah; that is My name! I will not yield My glory to another or My praise to idols.
The word Trinity should not even be mentioned by a reading bible Christian because we only have One True GOD. Our GOD's Son, Yeshua and the Spirit of GOD Almighty.
We all have a spirit whether good or bad. That's the spirit in us.
The Spirit of GOD is HOLY and if we have HIS Holy Spirit, we belong to HIM.
The word Trinity belongs to Catholicism. They believe there are 3 Gods in one . They are all the same person in one. Not three separate Spiritual Beings. Catholics do not read the bible. They believe in the word of man.
I would suggest watching and paying attentiton to what he saying and the issues he is raising, answers lie in watching the video..
Have non Trinity persons ever disfellowshipped anyone for their Trinity beliefs
We can not discuss this it will divide the church .
Sounds familiar during covid
DIVIDE or shine a light on error
It's not their place for anti trinitarians are not SDA.
@@larrybedouin2921
Holding onto a false god will bring us into the hands of Rome
“The mystery of the trinity is the central doctrine of Catholic faith. Upon it are based all the other teachings of the church.” Handbook for Today’s Catholic, p. 16
OCTOBER 9, 2015
Why Adventists Participate in UN and Ecumenical Meetings
By Ganoune Diop, director, public affairs and religious liberty department, General Conference of SDA
“In the Catholic Encyclopedia, the communion of saints is described as “the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head…. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination [heaven] and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption.”
With this example in mind, global church unity could only be a reality if all Christians adopted the Catholic worldview or understanding of reality or if all Catholics gave up their deeply held beliefs.
Nevertheless, there is much that unites Christians, beginning with the foundation of unity itself.
Unity is dear to the heart of God. The whole plan of salvation demonstrates God’s determination to unite His divided and dispersed family, which He created in His image. Unity is grounded in the being of God who is Trinity: a unity in Trinity.
…Seventh-day Adventists support Christian unity as they join the Triune God who is determined to gather people He created in His image. The purpose of the whole plan of salvation is the restoration of God’s image and the gathering of those He saves. Unity is grounded in God. It was for this purpose Jesus Christ came to earth to unite all the families of the earth.“ end quote
The SDA CHURCH has oficially apostasized from biblical truth. Brothers hold fast till the end and don’t accept the wine of Babylon. The tree in one god.
I was disfellowshipped from a non trini fb group this week.
@@chrischung2365 FB is not a church. You were not banned for your doctrine but for your behavior.
at 23:40 the only begotten son of God you say is to be understood as the unique son of God ... somehow this is supposed to remove the begotten - born and having a beginning notion... now how is Jesus the son of the Father. Are we saying the word "brother" would have served better than "son"? Two questions arise on this point what does "only begotten" mean and what does "son" mean.?
I did not want human ideas. When confronted with this issue, I got my Bible, prayed and started looking for God’s answers. I found that God did not explain His nature. He says He is ONE (EHAD) no numerical one but in unity; however , through His works for humanity we can have glimpses of God, and I can clearly see the Father, The Holy One and the Holy Spirit. I am a believer in the Godhead.🙏🏼
You are reading into it. GOD is a person with a personal pronoun throughout the Scriptures. Therefore, it is numeric.
Pastor Steve, kindly clarify the true understanding of the Trinity from the SDA perspective. Is the trinity "three in one" or " three but one"?
I appreciate Steve's attempt at creating unity here, especially by suggesting the wording of the FB's be changed. I appreciate his attempt to stick with inspired words. However, the Bible and EGW are very clear that GOD is a person, not three persons. GOD is the FATHER, and His SON is *of* the FATHER, so that He is GOD/the FATHER in essence (nature, character, etc.). EGW is very clear in many quotes that the SON is made in the express image of GOD, and this is sadly being denied, while using other writings that do not even support a God consisting of three persons. Her writings are being misused. So sad.
In order to have unity, we should not be fighting each other on this, or perceiving that the other side is attacking us. There should be ongoing prayerful public dialogues with all perspectives welcome until unity comes.
Oh, who has the time or patience or humility to do THAT! Nice idea, though.
Steve was not trying to create unity. If he was he would not misrepresent non-trinitarians, or the Bible or the SOP. It was a smokescreen.
He said that when we all come to heaven that we will worship the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit? The Bible did not say anything about that. When we all go to heaven that the one we are going to worship is our LORD God Jesus Christ alone who created the heaven and earth.
The modalism that you believe contradicts the scriptures. Did Jesus pray to Himself? There are three living beings who make up the one true God of heaven. 'One' (echad) refers to the unity of the three; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 1 John 5:7 " For there are three that bear witness [a]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."
@@ChristAdventwitnessthere is nothing in the statement that you responded to that suggests modalism …
@@beaelleess3892all this explanation still does not explain what God Jesus and Holy Spirit look like
Is it three in one or one in three ?
If we go to heaven what will we find 3 distinct beings each on a throne or one being ?
To me it’s a mystery we are all trying to explain but as to me I remain confused
Actually Rev 5:13 says "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."
Clearly two.
Christ sits on the throne with His Father. Rev 3:21
As the saints in the kingdom of God are accepted in the beloved, they hear: “Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” And then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And then what? What next did I see? Ms139, 1906 para 32.
Worship belongs only to God
Galatians 4:26 says that the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL.
Does that mean that Jerusalem is person?
Matthew 3:16-17 (WEB) Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him.
Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 10:20 (WEB) For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
Matthew 18:20 (NET) For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them.”
Matthew 12:28 (WEB) But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then God’s Kingdom has come upon you.
John 3:34 (WEB) For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure.
John 4:24 (WEB) God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 14:16 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
▪︎▪︎So, who is that "another Comforter"?
Is it for real another person?, another being?, another entity?.
Because if you think it is another different entity, then you are getting into spiritualism, which is a dangerous route.
However, that "another" might be "another of the same". You might think it's a little confusing what I'm saying, but in order to understand let's see,
John 16:13 (WEB) However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
▪︎On this verse, Jesus was warning the disciples to be careful about who is that spirit. He told them that this spirit is the Spirit of truth; that he(that spirit) will not speak from himself; but whatever he(sp) hears, he(sp) will speak.
▪︎This are exactly the same words that Jesus said of Himself to the priests, see
John 12:49-50 (WEB) For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak.”
Jesus said to Philip
John 14:10 (WEB) Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
Now when it comes to us about testifying Jesus counseled us
Matthew 10:19 (KJV) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Matthew 10:20 (WEB) For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
▪︎How, then, this happens? See,
Ephesians 2:18 (WEB) For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Romans 8:9 (WEB) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.
Romans 8:11 (WEB) But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Isaiah 42:1 (WEB) “Behold, my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights: I have put my Spirit on him. He will bring justice to the nations.
John 14:18 (KJV) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. See Matthew 18:20 (NET) For where two or three are assembled in my name, I am there among them.”
Galatians 4:4-6 (KJV) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Ephesians 2:18 (KJV) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
1 Peter 1:11 (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Ephesians 2:13, 18 (KJV) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
2 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Spirit Definition
American Heritage Dictionary:
"Part of a human associated with the mind, will and feelings.
•••
Mind = intellect, reason, common sense, etc.
Will = desires, wishes, wants, etc.
Feelings = emotions, fervor, passion, sentiment, etc.
Who is the Holy Spirit according to Ellen White?
Ellen White wrote that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, which has confused some. Please allow me to explain why she said this and reveal the real truth on the Holy Spirit.
“The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of CHRIST, which is sent to all men to give them sufficiency,” - MR 14, p. 84
“We want the HOLY SPIRIT, which is JESUS CHRIST.” - Letter 66, April 10, 1894
“but it is the leaven of the SPIRIT of JESUS CHRIST, which is sent down from heaven, called the HOLY GHOST,”
- Manuscript 36-1891
Q.- So why did Ellen White frequently call the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ when the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of God or the Spirit of the Father?
A.- Because the Holy Spirit is the mind, power and personal presence of the very life of God that the Father gave to His Son, and offers it through His Son to us. This is not a separate person of the Godhead who is being sent, it is the very life of God coming to us through His Son.
“The divine Spirit that the world’s Redeemer promised to send, is the presence and power of God.” - Signs of the Times, November 23, 1891
Why did eg white call Holy Spirit an it?
Proverbs 18 verse 13: He who answers before listening-tthat is his folly and his shame (seems there's a lot of misinformation about what non-trinitarians believe)
The fact that there are 32 K views is telling.
The fact that Pastor Steve is at variance to our pioneers is also telling.
Can’t disagree with the strong point you made. Clearly if Satan deceived angel’s in heaven, what makes people think leadership can’t be used by Satan today to gain worship and be like the most high God by a trinity doctrine god?
Pastor Wolberg: read your Bible. Hebrews Chapter one clearly states that the Son of God is God who has another entity who is His God whereas God the Father has NO other entity who is His god.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?🤔
@@heavenlystars6533 Read Hebrews Chapter one verses 8 and 9.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8 KJV
@@heavenlystars6533Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Amen.
Note that Ellen G. White endorsed what this Adventist pioneer wrote below who also explains very clearly.
“This name [God] was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement, but it is His by right of inheritance.
Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because “He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Heb. 1:4.
A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as “the only begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the same name.
A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has, to some extent, the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works; and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father's person. Heb. 1:3.
As the Son of the self-existent God, he has by nature all the attributes of Deity.
It is true that there are many sons of God; but Christ is the “only begotten Son of God,” and therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was, or ever can be.
The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15);
but CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH.
The writer to the Hebrews further shows that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated, but that it is one which He has by right.” - (E.J. Waggoner, CAHR, p. 11-12)
Thank you White Horse Media for this presentation. I have a question on the topic: Noting that the Bible does not present a Triune God, (only private interpretations of individuals who are "Theologians" who "join together the dots to formulate this doctrine) who is the Father , The Son and the Holy Spirit, why does the church even venture in a debate let alone the doctrine that is not specifically supported by Scripture? Is the speaker here saying "now we can establish doctrines based on E.G. White" and not necessarily on the Bible? NB: I will settle ONLY for a quotation from the BIBLE, and NOTHING ELSE.
I don't think these issues will be resolved until influential people on both sides sit down to have a good faith discussion. Pastor Wohlberg, please call for a meeting of Trinitarian and Nontrinitarian leaders in the Church for a televised discussion. God bless.
He will never do that. He has not a leg to stand on.
I’m happy to meet with the anti trinitarian leaders. Please set it up. They have received several invites.
@@chrischung2365 Unfortunately, I am just a nobody on the internet who has no pull to set up such a discussion.
@@bourgeois4494 non trinitarian leaders are invited and have been invited to dialogue on this topic. They tend to avoid me as they realize that I am aware of the facts that they have sought to hide(the pioneers accepting a trinity) and also the egregious contradictions among the leaders of their community(some believe Jesus is without beginning and others are adamant that He had a beginning; some believe there are only two beings that are three persons while others are adamant that the three divine persons are three beings).
Chris has been shown truth by hundreds and he denies it always. And he puts his trust in man and cherry picks quotes from mere man while ignoring inspired quotes and Biblical truth. Why is he constantly quoting uninspired men's opinions? Why does he think the opinion of some men imply Biblical truth? This is why most do not bother with him. They know he denies the facts, and not that he knows the facts. That is his almighty proud opinion. Sigh
Jeremiah 17:5 says, “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.”
Please share EGW writing that you mentioned she wrote that we will fall down and worship Father, Son and Holy spirit when we go to heaven ???
PLEASE SHARE THE BOOK AND PAGE. IF THIS NOT WRITTEN, KINDLY APOLOGISE FOR MISLEADING
As the saints in the kingdom of God are accepted in the beloved, they hear: “Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” And then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And then what? What next did I see? Ms139, 1906 para 32.
Worship belongs only to God
That was first published in 1985. No need to put any authority on these words. She advised us not to pay any attention to what she may have said or believed. Read her published works (those books published under her supervision, not put out decades after she passed away).
So it actually is written - And Pastor Wohlberg does not need to apologise? Interesting. It has gone a little quiet. At least he is not misleading@@Keating-ue6do
@@revelation1790@rose6181 So it actually is written in the Spirit Of Prophecy - And Pastor Wohlberg does not need to apologise for saying there exists a distinction that will be worshipped as so? Interesting. It has gone a little quiet. At least he is proved as not misleading ... perhaps we should not ask him to apologise, but infact perhaps we aught to apologise to him for the insinuation that he was perhaps misleading
*Here is the quote:*
"As the saints in the kingdom of God are
accepted in the beloved, they hear: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
"And then the
golden harps are touched, and the
music flows all through the heavenly host, and *they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.* And then what? What next did I
see?" - *Ms 139* (Ellen G.White, Manuscript 139, Para 32. - Published 1906
@@Keating-ue6do@rose6181 So it actually is written in the Spirit Of Prophecy - And Pastor Wohlberg does not need to apologise for saying there exists a distinction that will be worshipped as so? Interesting. It has gone a little quiet. At least he is proved as not misleading ... perhaps we should not ask him to apologise, but infact perhaps we aught to apologise to him for the insinuation that he was perhaps misleading
*Here is the quote:*
"As the saints in the kingdom of God are
accepted in the beloved, they hear: "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."
"And then the
golden harps are touched, and the
music flows all through the heavenly host, and *they fall down and worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.* And then what? What next did I
see?" - *Ms 139* (Ellen G.White, Manuscript 139, Para 32. - Published 1906
In Rev 2 and 3 Christ introduces himself in several ways. If Jesus is the one speaking to the seven churches and at the end of each message he says "he that hath an ear let him hear what the spirit days to the church", who is that spirit, speaking to the churches?
CHRIST is that SPIRIT. 2 CORINTIANS 3:17 says " Now the LORD is that SPIRIT: and where the SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, there is LIBERTY.
Also Acts 20:28 says, Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HOLY SPIRIT hath made you overseers, to feed the CHURCH of GOD, which HE hath PURCHASED with HIS OWN BLOOD.
Notice that HE PURCHASED US WITH HIS OWN BLOOD. CHRIST JESUS SHED HIS OWN BLOOD TO PURCHASE US. A SPIRIT has no blood!
Blessings.
God infinetely is GOD MOST HIGH.
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING & ANYTHING IS KNOWN TO HIM.
HE IS GOD ALONE..the Day and our of his return is not by his Son
How is this so ? God knows all things.if Jesus was God he would know the day and hour.
You have the spirit of antichrist
The majority are usually to be found on the side of error and falsehood. The fact that doctors of divinity have the world on their side does not prove them to be on the side of truth and of God. The wide gate and the broad road attract the multitudes, while the strait gate and the narrow way are sought only by the few. 4SP 214
When you believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are coeternal it makes it impossible for Jesus to be the Son of God. That is why the church believes that it is just a role not a reality.
which according to 1. John makes them an Antichrist.
You obviously didn't listen to the whole presentation. Really though, if Christ was not fully God, he could not pay the price for our sins. His blood could not purchase our redemption. That is why no angel couldn't could have stepped up and offered to die for the human race in order to redeem them. It had to be a better sacrifice, it had to be our Creator, only his death and blood would satisfy the requirements of the Law
The words of Jesus and the spirit of Jesus.
@faithfulneyes Jesus is Divine He is the Son of God. ssinthelastdays
Jesus is fully God that is a misrepresentation. Obviously if He came out from God He has the same nature which is divine. Just like our children are human because they came from a human. I did listen to the whole presentation and he is misrepresenting many things.@@built_to_serve_
What about Trinitarians being open to what Non Trinitarians say, without twisting (and not even understanding) what we fully say?
What about Trinitarians looking at our explanation, the Biblical texts, without using the same arguments that don't hold water?
Only-begotten Son has been removed 😪
What is the wish of our God, heavenly Father's ?
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” (Joh 6:40, KJV)
Took him 30 minutes to open the Bible. It would have been more respectable to see him defend his faith using the Bible alone.
Also when he finally opens the Bible, he misinterprets 1 Corinthians 8:6. When you read it in context with 1 Corinthians 8:5 he is clearly talking about one singular God, the MOST High.Psalms
Psalms 83:18 ASV
[18] That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth.
Go start your own church for anti trinitarians then.
Let's assume that Pastor Wohlberg is right and that there shouldn't be a comma in I Corinthians 8:6. That is should read "But there is one God the Father, ... Then please show me the texts that say God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I'll give $100 to your ministry if you can produce even one such text.
1st Corinthians 8 vs 6 is a Slap on Unitarianism especially because Paul applies the Shema of Deuteronomy 6 vs 4 to Jesus.
@@chillionscarlet5387 there were two words for Lord in the old testament, all caps LORD, which translates to Jehovah and the second Lord, which usually refers to Jesus is adonia.
Deuteronomy 6:4-5 ASV
[4] Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: [5] and thou shalt love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Psalms 110:1 ASV
[1] Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalm 110:1 KJV
[1] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
A COUNTERFEIT OF THE THREE ANGELS MESSAGES?
“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325. This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
“This doctrine of the trinity was brought into the church about the same time with image worship, and keeping the day of the sun, and is but Persian doctrine remodeled
“The Alexandria catechetical school, which revered Clement of Alexandria and Origen, the greatest theologian of the Greek Church, as its heads, applied the allegorical method to the explanation of Scripture. Its thought was influenced by Plato: its strong point was [pagan] theological speculations. Athanasius and the three Cappadocians [the men whose Trinitarian views were adopted by the Catholic Church at the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople] had been included among its members.” - (Hubert Jedin, Ecumenical Councils of the Catholic Church: an Historical Outline, 1960, p. 28)
According to Karen Armstrong
Religion researcher Karen Armstrong explains in A History of God that “one of the first problems that had to be solved was the doctrine of God . . . a new danger arose from within which split Christians into bitterly warring camps” (1993, p. 106).
“the Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience . . . It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason.
Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, the Trinity “For many Western Christians . . . the Trinity is simply baffling”.
THE GREAT DECEPTION "THE TRINITY"
A TWISTED TRINITARIAN CONCEPT
“To believe that doctrine [one God with three personalities or roles], when reading the scripture we must believe that God sent himself into the world, died to reconcile the world to himself, raised himself from the dead, ascended to himself in heaven, pleads before himself in heaven to reconcile the world to himself, and is the only mediator between man and himself. It will not do to substitute the human nature of Christ (according to Trinitarians) as the Mediator; for Clarke says, ‘Human blood can no more appease God than swine’s blood.’ Com. on 2 Sam. 21:10. We must believe also that in the garden God prayed to himself, if it were possible, to let the cup pass from himself, and a thousand other such absurdities."
THE THIRD PERSON/BEING/PHYSICAL/"god-head", CALLED, PAGAN "god the holy spirit" is Lucifer himself. Trinitarians "god-head". The leader of the gang of three, Pagan gods of Trinitarianism. Satan coveted the position of the Begotten Son in heaven. He wanted to be co-equal, and co-eternal, with the Father and the Son. And be worshiped as "god". Since the devil can not accomplish that in heaven. Now he has set it up here on earth. Called the "TRINITY". Which is basically it is all himself. Lucifer + Satan + Devil = "god the holy spirit".
Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he was fully determined to have a position above that of Christ. He could not obtain what he coveted, and there was war in heaven, and he was cast out. {PC 91.3}
Who wants to be co-equal with the Supreme ONE?
"It is written" Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
"It is written???????" Psalms 1:1 Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Friends, each of us must study this subject for our self and hear both sides out honestly and prayerfully. Antitrinitarians are many times misrepresented and misunderstood.
A doctrine that denies the Sonship of Christ is attempting to tamper with the foundation of the gospel. The sonship of Christ is the rock on which the church is built. How can we even conceive to think and teach otherwise?
How can someone with no beginning be a son...except that "sonship" is considered metaphorical? We must never forget what John, in his letters, said about those who deny this Father and Son relationship.
The reason the Son is God(that is divine) is because He is literally born of a divine Father, and is the only one that can lay claim to this because He is the only begotten of the Father.
I am not challenging Jesus' divinity. John 1:1 makes it CLEAR that Jesus IS GOD, in the sense that he IS DIVINE. And, being BEGOTTEN -- not created -- but BEGOTTEN, he would be. No question about that here. That said, as to the segment beginning at 36:26, discussing John 17:3, Jesus (a divine being) makes a distinction between himself and his father. Why? Forget about why Pastor Wohlburg completely, and conveniently glosses over this, and ask yourself: Why would a divine being make this distinction between himself and his father by referring to his father as the ONLY true God?
Steve, personally an SDA member, I believe in the 3 person Godhead/Trinity.
But…why is this a divisive issue. What does it have to do with our Salvation ? The answer to this can be obtained ‘after’ we are in Heaven. For now let’s just do the work of the gospel winning as many as possible to our Savior.
Which Jesus do you want people won for? The true identity of Christ is essential knowledge for saving faith. See matt.16:16
Amen, Steve. This is not a salvation issue
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The eternal Godhead-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”-Upward Look, 148.
Only God is eternal.
The truth will win before the end! The Bible is clear that the Remnant must have pure truth unmingled with religious errors
Look at how he is battling and wrestling with a PLAIN THUS SAITH THE LORD. You are toying with the words of God. We believe that Jesus is God. But not God the Father. And the Father is LORD but not the LORD Jesus Christ. You can't twist and misrepresent our beliefs.
A lot of attackers falsely accuse Adventists of teaching that Jesus is not God.
Battling and wrestling? He does not have to, because he is the devil himself. A wolf in sheep's clothing/mentality.
As united in following Love, as the Father has instructed us, I don't understand why people seem to be delighting in attacking anyone. We are to be loving one another, holding a posture that the Father imparts His truth to us all, remaining open to hearing His truth through the Word, prayer, as unbiased and as supplicant as possible, hearing Him, setting aside our differences for His truth.For after all, we are not He.
@@tessootw3321 "It is written???????" Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Two Gods I guess.
I'm not buying it.
Wise decision Mark.
22:20 (and 26:30) The Father is the one true God....What that means is the Father is the source of all life including the life of his son, Jesus. The Father can be the one true God and Jesus be God (Godkind) and equal with the Father. Jesus is God because he came from the Father (begotten). Genesis 1 says everything after it's kind. Just like women can be called man (mankind) because Eve came from Adam. The Father and Son both are worthy of worship. John 17:3 doesn't mention the holy spirit...there are so many bible verses and SOP quotes that talk about how it's just the Father and Son (e.g., only Father/Son at creation, Father/Son share throne).
23:50 That quote from EGW, "Life, original, unborrowed, underived", that life she is referring to is immortality. “'In him was life; and the life was the light of men.' (John 1:4). It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, HAD THIS LIFE. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. “I lay it down of myself” (John 10:18), He said. IN HIM WAS LIFE, ORIGINAL, UNBORROWED, UNDERIVED. THIS LIFE IS NOT INHERENT IN MAN. HE CAN POSSESS IT ONLY THROUGH CHRIST. HE CANNOT EARN IT; IT IS GIVEN HIM AS A FREE GIFT if he will believe in Christ as His personal Saviour.” (1SM, p 296-297) (Trinitarians often quote the above to say that Christ has no beginning, that he was not begotten of the Father. However, we see that this life EGW is referring to is immortality, which Jesus got from the Father and that the redeemed will get from Christ. If the redeemed are going to get this “life, original, unborrowed, underived” does that mean we can say we have no beginning, that we’ve always existed?) John 5:26 talks about how Jesus got life from the Father, and it appears that verse 25 is saying that that life is immortaility.
24:55 I believe that the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost is the omnipresence of the Father and Son. And how you know if the bible is referring to the Father or Son when using the words Holy spirit/holy ghost depends on context.
27:00(ish) Thank you for mentioning that not all non-trinitarians believe the same....I believe the SDA church is God's remnant church. I don't believe we are to leave the church and make a new church. I do believe we have to become of one accord. EGW did say that the fundamental principles would be changed and accounted as error. (1 SM 204.2)
47:45 Desire of Ages, p. 671.2: "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. CHRIST
HAS GIVEN HIS SPIRIT as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church. (Many trinitarians quote only a portion of the above as proof that there’s a trinity. But EGW states Christ - His Spirit - is the third person.)
The word Godhead is used three times in the bible. If the word Godhead is another word for trinity, Romans 1:20 says we can understand it by the things God has created. Genesis 1:26, 27 says man (male and female) were made in God's image. How come only Adam and Eve, two people, were created and not a third person? Also, why weren’t Adam and Eve created at the same time? If Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three co-eternal Gods (meaning they all have no beginning and didn’t come from each other), wouldn’t it have been better to create Adam and Eve at the same time, and not Eve from Adam, and there be a third literal person/being? I believe the creation of Adam and Eve represents the relationship of the Father and Son, which excludes a literal third person. I believe Adam represents the Father and Eve represents Jesus. Jesus came after the Father. Eve came after Adam. Christ came from the Father. Eve came from Adam. Jesus has two natures: divine and human. Eve is man (as in mankind) and woman. The head of Christ is God. The head of the woman is the man. Though Christ got life from the Father, He gives eternal life to the redeemed. Jesus gives eternal life. Although the woman came from the man, man has since come from woman. Women give human life.
106:38 You said we should stick with the language of the bible...I agree. But that would mean when the bible says Jesus is the only begotten Son of God that means he is the literal Son of God. It's so much more meaningful to know that God sent His literal Son to save us. “In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.” (1 John 4:9) This great controversy is between Christ and Satan and it started because Satan was jealous that he was not invited into the private councils between the Father and Son. EGW said, “Christ was the only begotten Son of God, and Lucifer, that glorious angel, got up a warfare over the matter,” (Ms 86, 1910). Satan has been disputing the sonship of Christ from the beginning. He even tried to get Christ to doubt his sonship in the wilderness. The Father encouraged his son at his baptism by saying "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." The trinity doctrine denies the sonship of Christ.
Amen and Amen! Wonderful insightful thoughts. Thank you and blessings.
Praise God for the clarity you have provided. I would like to add that in Chapter one of Patriarchs and Prophets and Chapter 29 of The Great Controversy, Ellen White makes it very clear that the controversy in heaven began over who Jesus Christ was and why he should have supremacy over Lucifer. In both chapters there is no mention of the Holy Spirit. In both chapters, several times she says that in the order of heaven, Lucifer was next in power and honor to the Son of God. Then she writes on page 496:1 of Great Controversy, "Everything that was simple he (Lucifer) shrouded in mystery, and by artful persuasion cast doubts upon the plainest statements of Jehovah."
Many SDA leaders speak of the "mystery of the trinity." No wonder they have trouble explaining it. Yet a 5-year-old can understand that "God so loved the world that he gave His only birthed (meaning of "only-begotten" according to Strong's Concordance) Son for the salvation of this world."
Jesus is Michael, the arch Angel. The name means is as God. Jesus only became the only begotten son when He was born as a human being. He was Michael before He became a human man. Jesus created all of the angels (messengers). Jesus is God, just as s the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is called He in the Bible. Therefore, He is one component of the Godhead. For God to be LOVE there would have to be more than 2 in the Godhead. It is a math thing, and God is the author of math.
@@theway5563 Hi. Yes, Jesus is God. As you can see in my initial comment, Jesus is God because he came from the Father. Genesis 1 says everything after its kind. Humans beget humans and divinity begets divinity. The bible and SOP says Jesus was begotten before his incarnation. John 3:16 says God sent his only begotten son into the world. Here, as well as elsewhere in the bible, it states Jesus was begotten before he was sent into the world. Also in my initial comment, I quoted EGW where she said Jesus is the only begotten son of God and how Lucifer started a war over the matter.
Nader Mansour has a good video about the love of God. You can check him out on RUclips. To say that God can only be love if he has someone to love goes against scripture. The bible says God is love. There are no preconditions. With or without anyone, God is love.
I'm not sure if you read through the whole comment but I talked about how the Godhead (Romans 1:20) can be understood by the creation of Adam and Eve. Two people, and Eve coming from Adam. Only Father and Son in the Godhead. Holy spirit is the omnipresence of the Father and Son.
The bible says the holy spirit is the mind/omnipresence of God. You'll know from context whether the Father or son is being referred to.
Here's a verse that I recently found out about...Acts 20:28. It shows the holy spirit to be Christ because Jesus is the only one who shed his blood for us. "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
Amen Pastor Steve!!!! 🥰
Thank you Steve! I've been very minimally involved in this, but if I run into it now I'll have more of a heads up. Who was I listening to this weekend who said, "It stank in the ark. You know it did. But you were either in the stinky ark or you were out in the flood and didn't make it." Stay in the ship! It's going through.