Two Swords or Uh.. Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation S2 Ep 23 Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- #MushokuTensei #Anime #SACReacts
The aftermath was a tough one but we journey home
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Outro Song: Smoke Alone by Da Homie Drew
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I feel that some people are unfairly demonizing Roxy after this episode and wish to offer a defense.
1) Roxy's goal was not sleeping with Rudy. As we see in the episode, Rudy was in a bad state. He shut himself away and wasn't eating. He wasn't listening to others. After all, as Roxy relates, the party was talking about him, not with him. The others decided to wait and see, but Roxy disagreed with that decision. She knew that Rudy was a lot weaker that he appeared. That was the point of her flashback to little Rudy. She understood that he needed someone to help pull him up. And she is correct. We have seen that he usually needs the support of someone (Roxy, Soldat, Sylphie, ect) to rise out of his darker episodes. Sylphie wasn't available. And since they couldn't leave until Rudy was better, there was no way to reunite him with his wife. Thus Roxy resolved herself to be the one to save Rudy. When she goes to see him, she uses several tactics to try to reach him. And as each fails, she ups the ante. First she tries to get him to go outside with her. She is rejected. Next, she tries to empathize. He explodes. Then she hugs him. He is more receptive yet ultimately pulls away. It is only at the last when she uses her trump card that he responds positively. Had he been receptive to any of the earlier attempts things would not have escalated to where they did. Her priority was to help him and she wasn't going to stop until she succeeded.
2) Roxy did not r@pe Rudy. First and foremost, at no point did he reject her advances. He did not push her away, pull away, or tell her to stop. Instead, he clasped her hand, signifying that he reciprocated. And just because one is grieving does not mean one cannot consent. It is normal for people to use sex as a means to deal with grief, stress and trauma. Whether that is healthy or not is a different topic. Nor is there any mismatched power dynamic between the two. And finally, let's not forget that Roxy is also grieving. Not only did she say as much, but recall that she spent six years looking for Rudy and his family. She volunteered her time and money to travel across the world for them. You don't do that unless you really care. Plus, she is desperately worried about Rudy's condition. So if Rudy is not in a good mental state, then neither is she. Just because she is expressing her grief differently doesn't mean it is not there.
3) Roxy did not take advantage of Rudy. Just because Roxy said she did, does not necessarily make it so. Look at what else she says. "You shouldn't blame yourself" and "It was my decision." What is she doing here? She is playing the villian. She is placing all responsibility for what they did on herself. It is giving Rudy an escape, an excuse. He doesn't need to feel guilty for cheating nor responsible for Roxy. She is punishing herself so Rudy doesn't punish himself. It is her way of being considerate. One might even call it selfless.
4) Sleeping with Rudy was the worst thing Roxy could have done. Yes and no. In this show, sex is an agent of change for Rudy. It is a source of both trauma (Eartheus, Eris, Sara) and healing (Sylpiette). So what are some of the results of their actions. On the positive side: it took the edge off of Rudy's depression and allowed the healing process to begin. For Roxy, she was able to help the one she loved and fulfill, if for a moment, her dream. Negative: it did not solve the core problem, guilt and confusion for Rudy, and heartbreak for Roxy. The thing about Mushoku Tensei is that nothing and no one is purely black or white. We have a bunch of flawed people doing the best they can with the resources available. There are no real right or wrong answers. Just choices and consequences. Like whether or not to go to Begaritt. Either way there may be regrets.
This show is all about not dissimissing people for making mistakes. And understanding that people are more than the worst thing they have ever done. If you think Roxy was just being selfish, remember that people can have both altruistic and ulterior motives simultaneously. And for those who now find Roxy unforgivable, think about all the other "unforgivable" characters in this show. Hopefully, I was able to offer a different perspective.
completely agree, W take for sure
damn this is that one comment to copypaste fr
one of the best I've seen you cooked
This is really a good comment
18:40 The reason Elinalise hated Paul so much was because he unilaterally disbanded the party and just doubled and tripled down when the others, herself and Talhand most of all, started protesting.
First, Paul disbanded the party the moment they learned Zenith was pregnant. The others had wanted to let her get off the team to take care of the child and they'd be there to help her.
Second, Paul tried to cut off ties with them by saying the years they spent together didn't matter to him and he can quit adventuring as well as all of them whenever he wanted, while he now has an actual family to look after.
Third, he told them he's taking the last job's reward money and keeping it all to himself (rather than distributing it to the party).
So what Paul did was a betrayal of their friendship, a dismissal of their time together, a betrayal of their trust as adventurers, and theft.
Elinalise forgave him since she has a money glitch to go with her curse, she understood that he wanted a clean break as she'd planned to do with Cliff before the voyage, and the reason he did it all was for the baby who'd grown into such a splendid young man.
awe for our baby Rudy. I can understand her frustrations though
Two Swords ???, i have a feeling that he will get more than just the two
I want 5
People are saying he wasn't eating for two weeks. It's been nine days since the hydra fight. It took them three days to get back to Rapan, they spent a day figuring out Zenith, and Rudeus has been despondent for the last five days.
What prompted Roxy to sleep with Rudeus was the idea floated by Geese to get Rudeus drunk and laid, since that's the go-to solution for heartbroken adventurers. Sure, the method won't get them back to what they were before, but it takes the edge off and they're on their feet again. Everyone recognized that a random girl at a brothel wouldn't do it for him, Lilia was out of the question, and Elinalise flatly refused to do it. When Roxy pressed her on it, Elinalise told her it's because Rudeus' wife is her granddaughter. The party decided to leave it at that.
The tryst went differently in the book. After Roxy finished hugging Rudeus' head and was moving away, he pulled her back and she fell on his lap. He wanted to keep being close to her, since he found her scent and especially her heartbeat to be so calming. Roxy offered herself to him before her nerves got the better of her, with her presenting herself as experienced, doing it for her own sake to forget about the pain of Paul's loss, etc. before trying to chicken out by suggesting he could go beg Elinalise instead. Rudeus shut her up by slamming her on the bed and going at her. He thought of his conduct as being rough and violent.
The anime version gives Roxy a lot more confidence, Rudeus surrenders to her, and the start of the tryst is a whole lot gentler. Gotta give props to the studio for making it a mirror of the scene with Eris.
As an LN reader I'm disappointed they left out the story he told her. His weird question was about a _totally fictional and completely unrelated to anyone man_ who had ruined his relationship with his family and didn't care for his parents; he got kicked out by his siblings for ignoring his parents' funeral, but he found himself in a new land and tried to make the best of his new life; he made friends and family and his life was going pretty well, but he made a mistake that cost him dearly and he's only now remembering his parents. He asks her what that man should do. "I would at least visit their graves and talk to the relatives. Even after all this time, it's not too late." But since he can't go back even if he wanted to, "Then there is nothing that can be done. He should cherish the family he has in front of him." That buildup makes Roxy's plea the most impactful line in the entire 26-volume run of the story: "Please look to the future. Everyone is waiting for you."
It's the talk that allows him to let out all the bile he'd been holding in for nearly SEVENTEEN YEARS, finally being able to tell someone on some level of how he got there. Her listening to him and giving him answers, however cliché or trite, helped him enough to get on his feet and ready for his journey home.
The anime cut makes it look like she's telling him to move past just grieving for Paul and look to his mothers and his sisters, as well as his pregnant wife, for they're his responsibility now and that they're there for him.
21:00 Paul's slept with Lilia a total of three times: In her father's dojo when he was 12 (without her consent), when Zenith was pregnant with Norn 13 years later, and on Begaritt 10 years after that (due to succubus attack).
Yea I think the biggest thing about this episode was the way it was adapted but maybe they're trying to portray a different angle? Not too sure but having a better conversation would have been a better idea between the two. Paul could've had more adventures with Lilia tbh but hey thats me xD
@@SACReacts The episode definitely could've skipped the ED for more conversation, especially since that _totally fictional story_ Rudeus tells Roxy is considered one of his key moments among readers. He gets to tell of his story, Roxy picks up hints that he's reincarnated, and it helps save Rudeus once more.
As to otherwise streamlining the episode... leaving the bar scene is understandable if we want to stick to Rudeus' POV, but Roxy could've told more about it, like how they talked about how getting him to a woman would make him feel better and how this made Roxy feel conflicted. The pregnancy scare was skipped because Rudeus didn't resist the bigamy idea as much as he did in the book.
With Paul and Lilia... the text doesn't have too many interactions with them beyond what's shown in the anime. There was their time at the dojo, him hiring her, him apologizing to her the night Rudeus was born, the usual interactions since then, Rudeus catching him running his hand on her ass, etc... And after reuniting with her husband, she fit in with the search and rescue squad, but she's not in any kind of combat condition due to her injury from protecting Ariel, which got her to leave the royal palace in the first place.
@@Tounushi I can only hope now for a peaceful finale this week. This show really is amazing
@@SACReacts The story is beyond amazing.
"Peaceful finale this week" yeah... One of the chapters being adapted is named "Naraku," translated as "carnage" and "hell"
@@Tounushi oh.. lolol welpppp
The last controversial that rudy made. 👌
Roxy taught Rudeus one more lesson
she needs to teach me some magic too wtf
Its not really that weird. But eat something not enough to make you got distracted by a problem that you have.
Here rudeus didn't even eat something like almost 2 weeks. That mean eat something not am issue. Maybe you ever heard something like drugs can make you forgot about your probelm because its giving you happiness. And some of people that using drugs using that for distracting all the problem that they had in real life.
Some of people also like to drinking alot to distract people from their problem. When you using drugs, sex, and Drinking all of this is great to make people forgot about their problem.
👌
yea addiction is scary and a terrible thing to deal with. It just hurt so much seeing Rudy like this :(
It wasn’t Roxy’s idea to sleep with him. It was Elenalise who threw the idea out. And because she already feels like shit because she betrayed Cliff and slept with guys on the trip there, Lise didn’t wanna also betray Sylphy by sleeping with Rudy. Because she knew of Rudy’s ed situation and how Sylphy healed him, she thought he could be healed again if Roxy did it. Roxy fought with the idea for a while when Rudy was wasting away and basically dying in his room.
Just a reminder, the anime is an adaptation of the LN, but not everything that happens in the LN is true in the anime. As a example, the one who take the final step in the Rudy/Roxy scene in the LN was Rudeus, in the anime it was Roxy, looks like a small change, but actually it changes a lot of things, or even the roxys fake pregnancy, so yeah, a lot of things that happens in the original happens in the anime, but isn’t exactly the same
No one made her do it. And she absolutely did it because she was into him and took advantage of it. No matter what other excuses there are.
He was in no shape to consent.
It is what it is though. But that should be acknowledged.
yea its always a tough convo to have. As long as everyone is ok and can find peace thats ok for now
@@HiddenStr3ngth No this is not true he was in shape to conent. I feel like saying he was no shape in to consent is a bit crazy.
Yes he was out of shape but its not like rudeus coudln't say no this is not really true thats not really how that works.
Personally, calling it r**e is a bit of a stretch. If Rudy was resisting and pleading for her to stop then that would've made this terrible
Now this scene is a bit different from the LN well a lot of things. But mainly the biggest difference is that Roxy kind of iniates more than in the light novel. In the light novel she offers herself to rudeus in the sense that sleeping can allow comfort, according with rudeus response being like who told you that and its like oh elinalise. Roxy says she is also sad about paul death and that she also needs that type of comfort and then offers herself to rudeus. then rudeus in his depressed state and in the need of wanting sort of comfort kind of just does it, he feels somewhat in ease with roxy comfort and it kind of just leads to him going towards that..
For the anime i guess they made roxy take more of a initiative but it comes down to the same thing i guess. Both versions she is aware rudeus has a wife But in the LN you see roxy get told it rather then find out and she offers herself to rudeus she doesn't actually take the first action but either way rudeus isn't in the right mindset still wrong but context wise for people this will change their mind on things a lot.
One thing that is also changed is that elinalise hints roxy might be pregnant towards rudeus which is another convincing factor for rudeus deciding to just take responsebillity.
woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah not the insta preggers!!! The Greyrat genes work wonder lol the comparisons are good to hear though
@@SACReacts the funny part about this scenario is if you really look at it, its roxy helping the shut in rudeus that leads to him not fearing the outside and meeting sylphie.
Then roxy recommending rudeus to go to ranao and rudeus wanting to improve in magic but not leave sylphie that wants to stay with him that leads to paul giving him a job with eris.
Then eris leaving rudeus and elinalise telling him roxy and paul are already saving their mom and the man gods words that lead rudeus to take a break in ranao reuniting with sylphie.
Then sylphie being pregnant makes him reunite with roxy without sylphie they really have been unintentionally passing rudeus on to the next love interest.
@@DBZFANX1000 that’s true. Crazy how things have worked out for him
I called it i know this was going to happen
yea the lead up was there, its gonna be a veryyyy interesting convo with Sylphie when we get home
@SACReacts Slyphia did say she would be fine with it, but Rudy was the ome to promise he would stay faithful
It should still be for a shock. The timing is just sooo bad
@@SACReacts We shall see
@@jarvisfowlkes3200 I’m soooo reaaaady. I hope we get season 3 in a respectable time frame