The problem is, if somebody messes up, the scenario defaults to: a) not repeimanding the person at all b) firing the person responsible and replacing that position with another former burger flipper with no responsibility either.
I don't think you understand how the gov works. They bend you over and violate you. In turn, YOU pay your taxes and pay THEIR salary so they can continue to be as incompetent as ever. They have no incentive to get better or to do better, only to continue on course. Welcome to America.
The issue is they have a choice of least bad scenario. If they let something through the shouldn't they could go to prison for a long time. Nobody wants to be the guy that allowed something to go through that's used in a hijacking. It's the classic on the job problem of "there's no scenario where I don't do something wrong so what's the least bad choice?"
I mean, I used to work airport security (not in USA) and I handled a _lot_ of firearm bags. This kind of nonsense is completely bizarre incompetence at all levels. It's not like this kind of thing doesn't usually happen pretty much every day with people on flights at any busy airport, how can the gate personnel, the ramp personnel and TSA be such complete idiots? Lack of accountability, that's what. Nobody gets reprimanded for this. They just screw around with you and nobody gets so much as any additional training to how to handle this BS in the future.
Airline administration is almost entirely made up of middle-aged Karens who used to be stewardesses, they're not particularly intelligent or efficient at anything. And the TSA are actively bad at literally every part of their job, because the only people who apply to work for the TSA are people who were too stupid not only to be cops, but to be prison guards, mall cops, and school security guards.
Concerning that TSA is so nonchalant about leaving unsecured firearms floating around the airport. They really seem to be driving airport security backwards.
@@WRSND Maybe not, they might just be fucking mor0ns, if you do not know were your weapons are then that is a major problem. I can tell you were all of mine are and if the are loaded or not.
@DeviantOllam those wafer blockers can probably be had from any locksmith that stocks/installs CompX Fort locks, the plastic blockers come with every cam lock.
When the problem is this widespread, it’s not the people, but the airlines at fault. They surely aren’t prioritizing fixing it. And I’m not surprised - they will never admit it, but I’m sure they would rather people didn’t fly with firearms, so don’t want to induce more demand by making it easy.
All this could be cleared up by just having a TSA agent come physically pick the bag up when you check it in. Then having the TSA agent physically walk the bag to the loading bay and visually watching the bag be loaded onto the plane. It used to be that flying with a firearm almost always guaranteed your bag would never be lost, because they didn't put it in the automated system. Because there was a high fear of not knowing where a gun was at all times in an airport.
1. How dare you bring logic into this converstaion. 2. You want govt agency employees to walk? 3. Don't you know the purpose of govt jobs is to do as little as possible while collecting a pay check 4. This is obviously written with sarcasm.
Some airports do. Unfortunately as they always say, “Every airport is different” which also mean different management directives. At the airport I work at we hand check every firearm case before sending it on it’s way to the airline. The only time I’ve ever cut a lock on a firearm case is when the passenger forgot the key or combination.
5ish years ago I was returning home from a convention where I won a matted painting from an Art Auction. I get up to the xray, and request they hand the matted painting through because it will get stuck on the conveyor. They got very upset when I suggested this, and INSISTED it go through the x-ray. (This is an acrylic painting on mat-board. It is less than a quarter inch thick. It got jammed in the x-ray, and the tech tried to free it by jamming the belt forward as fast as possible. This caused the luggage behind it to push my painting through the machine, beinding it in a z shape. I was LIVID. Heck the 3 people behind me that witness this were livid.
My favorite TSA story is still when I used to fly armed as a LEO picking up a prisoner for extradition. There was a protocol to follow and it generally went off without too much trouble. Once as I picked up my boarding pass after going through the dog and pony show the clerk asked, as she handed me the pass, "Do you have any sharp objects on your person?" I asked, "What part about "peace officer flying armed" do you not understand?" She said, "Oh, I know. We have to ask." I said, "No ma'am. No sharp edges on this 10mm Colt."
Having a Beretta M9 in 9mm and a Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5" in 10mm I'd use the 10mm everyday and twice on Sunday over a 9mm (all else being equal).
1 month ago in Pittsburg , I hand carried my firearm case to TSA so they could inspect it. The agent did an X-ray and visual inspection right in front of me and then brought the case over to me for lock installation. Imagine my surprise when my case arrived in Seattle with the locks removed. The locks were 12 hours old when installed and why does TSA need in again after they themselves have cleared the case? This is equivalent to setting up another metal detector at the airplane!
@Peter Darr In my case, I took the rifle case to the ticket agent and filled out a declaration in their view. The declaration stated that the rifle was unloaded and checked by me. The declaration then went in the case, and the case was left unlocked. Next, I carried it roughly 100 feet to a TSA kiosk. The TSA agent had me open the case and looked at the rifle (which was actually disassembled) and the declaration. He then took it to another station within my view and ran it through x-ray and visual checks. He also removed part of the foam protection pad, then replaced everything. Next, he brought it back to me and watched me put 2 locks on the case. Once it is locked, there is no need for further inspection. When the case arrived, Sans locks, I contacted the airline and TSA. They both stated that there is no reason to open it at that point and if there was to be a problem with the case later on, (i.e., damage or loss) they track you down at the gate rather than go through your case away from view which may bring on liability that they do not want to accept.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Is that so? So according to their own explanation, your cases were opened by someone other than TSA? Sure is negligent of them to just leave firearms in an area where some unknown person can put heavy duty tools to them without anyone noticing
@wessltov TSA blamed the airline and the airline blamed TSA. To be fair, the case was not left open but was unlocked. All the contents were still in the case and there was no ammunition to even load the firearm but it definitely makes someone wonder how secure a weapon is when it gets tampered with, and nobody can answer why.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Maybe next time it should have a go-pro recording so you can see for yourself when the case is opened when it shouldn't be. Something along the lines of, get it inspected, cleared and approved, turn on the camera, then close and lock it up.
@@matthewmiller6068 There is almost no chance that would happen. TSA is employed by humans, and humans are retarded. But almost none are that retarded. You're more likely to have the firearm directly stolen in the inspection room when a supervisor isn't looking, and that's still very unlikely given the nature of the charges the TSO would be facing when they almost certainly got caught.
For future reference, in Orlando, the firearm case should go to oversized luggage which is one floor below the check in desks and the person who checked you in should walk you down there. There's a TSA guy and a window in the door for them to give you a thumbs up if you're good.
I've been there. Got the thumbs up through the window... STL is a nightmare, every single time. COD didn't even care to inspect, just waved it through. DEN was a PITA.
Can also confirm. DEN is similar. Someone walks you to a TSA room on the same floor as ticketing and they give you a tumbs-up through the window in the door.
Really? That's so frustrating! The level of incompetence has gotten so bad that you'd have to walk the checkin assistant down there instead of the other way around!
Making key retaining locks to force TSA to relock your bags is the smartest thing I’ve heard in a while. Just force them to be secure since they clearly can’t do it themselves
Betting $5 on the lock getting cut because "it's broke" and only after they cut it and monkey around for 30 minutes do they realize that putting it in the LOCK position frees the ke- wait, wait, nevermind, that was because we cut it off, not because we turned it back to locked. Job's done!
The thing is the TSA are meant to have YOU unlock the goddam case. You arent meant to hand the key to the TSA. printing the regs out and being dogmatic is a nightmare but the only way.
Consider yourself lucky, the TSA has cut and tossed all my Albus locks. I've submitted invoices for payment demand, telling them "hey, you threw them away without consent. I need repayment." I'm still waiting
Twenty five years ago, TSA broke a TIG welding torch that was coiled up inside a hardhat. I submitted all the paperwork for them to reimburse me. I am still waiting. The head TSA office guy told me to not expect much when he handed me the paperwork. I think they just trash canned the forms after I left.
@@H3110NU - That's a fun idea! ~10 bucks in support, and a prop people can pull out when arguing that the TSA is fundamentally making people less safe.
The real fun is if you had one of the special high security locks, them trying to cut that open wouldn't be something that they'd do again. I know someone who had to travel with one on a case, though that was one with other things on it and he had to deal with the TSA in other ways due to it because the contents were classified in the unauthorized might end up in gitmo after whatever medical attention for trying to breech the thing might cause. He only found out about some of the security after it was unlocked from his wrist after arriving at the other end.
I think I remember Dev mentioning that the airlines would pay him back for the lock, eventually, I can't remember how long it was, but I think it was measured in years.
I use airtags to track where my bags are now. In the USA, every airport will have a few iphones that will let you know if your bags have gotten to the terminal or not. It gives you some piece of mind and you don't have to deal with airport staff to ask if your bag has cleared.
I have a friend who did that. Their bags sat in the lost and found, they had the make and model of the bags and other info, they wouldn't ever grab em even though they showed it's there
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 Happened like that to a traveler in Canada. He told them exactly where his "lost" luggage was, but they insisted it wasn't there. Eventually, the airline sold his luggage as unclaimed. Of course, he followed it and retrieved it.
@@adamgravelin3002 glad you think so! I forgot to put one in my luggage before I left my house recently. Because I had one in my carry on I could just slip that one into my checked luggage. I always keep spares with me just in case.
I'm glad you recorded this, because if you verbally told anybody this, they would think you're nuts, because nobody would think that a crew could be this uncoordinated
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
I had firearms stolen by the airport staff. Claimed they lost them for over 8 months, fighting with them nonstop then once I told them there was gps in it and called up a lawyer in the office, it miraculously turned up in like 45 seconds. They were literally holding it in the back and pretending they couldn’t find it. Got it back and they’re all rusted out, locks cut etc. I just pray they weren’t used for nefarious purposes while out of my possession
Somewhat similar experience with my Aunt that I witnessed around 2007. She was a Major at the time in the USAF who had just gotten back from Iraq. She traveled commercial back to the airport (I won't say which one, but its in the North East US). While waiting at the luggage carousel she grabbed her bag, but the case for her M9 was missing. After waiting for around a half hour, nothing showed up. At that point no one else from her flight was still there and it was a new crowd. After informing TSA, they did not care it was missing. After speaking to the airline, they didn't seem to care either other than telling her to fill out a form. At that point she had called her Commanding Officer (who was a full bird Colonel) and told them that the Airline/Airport lost a Government Issued M9 9mm handgun. Within 15 minutes, 4 or 5 State Troopers had shown up, and someone from Homeland Security. 5 minutes later, it showed up. Locks busted off, foam cut out of the case, and the entire pistol broken down rattling around inside with the magazines missing. She was beyond pissed, and her CO said she was coming down personally. She walked back over to the TSA office and told them "I hope you enjoy your next visit from the United States Air Force". No idea what ever happened after that, but I'm sure heads rolled because clearly an airport employee was trying to steal it and either got caught in the act or knew they were about to if it showed up that fast.
Rule 1. Always get *full* names of everybody - on camera if possible. I have an EM doctor friend that flies very frequently, and calls all the post 9-11 screening "security theater".
I can't agree more. The front-line imbeciles hired by the TSA traditionally have the mental acuity of a floor stocker at your local Goodwill. And I'm not bashing on goodwill employees here. This is all theatre because the public accepts it. Have you ever flown commercial out of Israel? That is at least much more competent security, and if you know what to look for in the airport there are armed plain-clothes police and military within probably 3-4 seconds of any incursion point. Sorry TSA, what you literally provide is merely an inconvenience to most travelers and simply a diversion point to be exploited for anyone truly capable of such tactics.
As a pilot it 100% is theater. Any engineer could put any weapon they want on board the airplane before it gets boarded, pilots also have access to the aircraft when it's on the company side. Weapons could be tucked in food service (this would take one person on the outside and one on the inside, but also an option... lots of options, but the point is that the peasant harassment isn't worth the frightfully small gain to safety: it's all just for money.
Exactly. It's called social engineering. Just print and glue an instruction on the case, with pictures, that looks like it can be a real TSA instruction and roll with it. The humans will follow the instructions without second thought.
@@NeilAbalone yes some sort of laminated sheet again could come with purchase of the sticker pack. I was thinking how do you identify the case without identifying the case? like I could see you putting your phone number on there but maybe not "hey this is a gun". or is that perfectly acceptable?
The problem is that it starts at the Check-in. The drones there insist that gun cases are regular luggage when they're not. And trying to convince them otherwise is probably hopeless.
Airline Agent on radio: "I don't know what is going on." Yeah, we established that a long time ago. Hopefully the airline got fined for being late pushing back from the gate.
I will always remember you as the guy that tried to help me unlock my sisters phone after she had a stroke. I will always appreciate the effort and the kindness
In response to making the TSA do their job: I'm finding that *every industry* has a minority of people who take pride in their work, and a majority that just punch the clock.
It's to be expected under our economic system. We're not passionate because our labor is stolen, our work is broken and highly segmented, and we are basically held hostage by our jobs.
As a non-American these 'Flying With Firearms' videos are both entertaining and infuriating. The level of incompetence in the handling makes my blood boil, just from watching. That's even without the added stress of getting on a plane on time.
its a problem only encountered by people with extra money to burn. most americans dont actually fly everywhere with guns. most dont even fly anymore (various reasons for that). this is a rich person problem.. not the average american.
@@reburgcam I'm sure as hell not rich, and I've flown with firearms multiple times. Dev is flying for his JOB, I doubt he's "rich" either, though I'm sure he makes more than me.
@@LdHrothgar i hope some day to be as WEALTHY as you and be able to afford to buy a gun. .you are truely financially blessed to have something i personally am not rich enough to afford. you are definitely rich.
Why do you expect people making minimum wage in dead end jobs to give a flying fig about doing anything but the bare minimum. You're demanding operational excellence and efficiency from wage slaves who are barely making ends meet due to inflation. You're lucky half of them even showed up to work. Welcome to America.
I was a Funeral Detail NCOIC in the Army. We had a major WTF once in Atlanta Airport. We had all our paperwork in order and we had orders and the weapons were listed in the orders by serial number. We had used the TSA locks so that the TSA can look in the case if needed too, as we were ordered to. The Rifle teams M-4's were supposed to be loaded into the aircraft but they disappeared between the check-in and the loading terminal. I had asked if the weapons were loaded and was told they were. Low and behold we got to the place where were were going, Michigan, to do the funeral for our fallen Brother, and 3 weapon cases were missing. 3 M-4's that belonged to the US Army were gone. It took me a while to find out that they got "misplaced" and were going to be on the next flight to our destination, which was the next day thankfully. One soldier and I had to wait in Detroit overnight and pick up the weapons and rent a second vehicle and drive the 3 hours to the where we had to be. It was stressful to say the least.
pretty fucking sad that crayon eaters can count better than TSA agents. 1 rifle, 2 rifle, 3 rifle, 4... At least when I was checking in rifles for a FOB cycle at Fort Bliss, I had the easy part of knowing EXACTLY how many weapons were already out and who had which one, so if one got "misplaced", I, and my Top would know who was getting a new asshole before their next Article15 hearing.
I've only flown with firearms once, a long while ago in New Jersey, so my memory is fuzzy. I walked up to the counter, let them know I had a firearm, they called the TSA who came over, and carried the case to their special screening area, with me trailing behind, they sent the case through their machines, opened it with my key to look, and then sent it off to be loaded. All with me standing there. And then I went on my merry way and picked up the case at my destination at the airline service counter, no problem.
That's how it SHOULD work. Denver Airport also has a TSA screening room around the corner from the check in counters that works similarly. But many airports around the country haven't been updated to add this, or don't train agents well enough (or they're so low volume for armed travelers) that they either don't have a procedure, or its not well know. Then you run into the issues as described here.
It's not like they let you carry your axe on board so you can cut your way into the baggage area of the plane to get it. If guns go off at high altitude on their own, I am sure the military would have noticed it by now as their planes blow up in flight.
I truly appreciate everything you teach us on your videos. I watched my first episode tonight, then liked, and subscribed. I find it a shame that the TSA can’t be held liable for their actions when you lose thousands of $$$ because they messed up.
It's a government job.. I have yet to find a government employee that knows what they are doing or have any kind of urgency to get the job done and done properly. Used to work for the TSA (Federal Air Marshalls) And could not wait until I found another job. It was all about filling space and getting a paycheck. Never how to streamline and be efficient for the customer (The Taxpayer).
@Russ Timberman Air Marshals are not TSA agents. I don’t believe you were an air marshal due to the fact that you said you left them. The pay and benefits of an air marshal are EXACTLY the same as US Marshals because they are the same department. You’d be retarded for leaving them because of how they manage things when promotion in the department is very easy as long as you are intelligent and have common sense, so you could have easily rose through ranks to change things. I work for the FPS(Federal Protective Services), and I would never leave a heavily competitive job that literally millions are competing for when there’s only hundreds of spots available. Federal law enforcement are one of the hardest type of careers to get in the federal government due to training, and available spots. I’ve been with FPS for 2 years and I am already shift supervisor due to my military training and grade(graduated ALC and is now a Staff Sergeant in the army reserve).
@@Unchainedful government and state jobs allow swapping BETWEEN other departments and positions, for all you know he entered into work with another department that handles similar types of things, maybe he went into security, or police. I can't speak on his comments about working for the TSA (though honestly someone telling the air marshals they work for the TSA would NOT surprise me) but his statements about HOW those jobs are handled I can absolutely back up. I'll refrain from clarifying my position because I'm still in active service but when I was starting the amount of "sit and look pretty" that I did was STAGGERING. Working a straight 8 I think in total I actually "worked" maybe three hours? And hell I had a government/state issued vehicle which I could radio in and out from (clock in/clock out) so hell, you'd radio in in the morning sitting in your driveway, probably not leave until like, another 30 minutes has passed, and you're home 30 minutes to an hour before your shift ends (usually doing paperwork but still). Government and state are NOT at all in any hurry to get employees working, let alone for the people who pay their salaries
I'm 10 minutes in and already the only way I see this issue getting fixed is if passengers start standing their ground and demand that the airlines and TSA follow their own policies. You as a passenger might miss a few flights, but hold the airlines accountable.
I can't believe there isn't some kind of serious escalation available for these policy deviations that at least leads to the airline reimbursing the cost of the padlocks! They had a policy and their employees failed to follow it, causing loss to a passenger - how do they not feel an ethical duty to right that, even if they have no legal obligation to do so?
@@djcfrompt The problem is we are dealing with two separate entities; the airline and then the TSA. The airline is going to say that it was the TSA that cut the locks. The TSA is going to say the airline/passenger didn't provide the key so we cut the locks. Who is responsible? As a passenger, we need to have all of the pertinent policies on hand to show the airline desk staff and then demand that they follow them. Don't take, "Well we don't do that here" as an answer. If TSA fails to follow their own policies, then make a complaint to their Office of Inspector General.
@@Sku11Leader right, and there is certain to be lots of finger pointing, but my argument is that if the airline employee's failure to follow the airline's own policies leads to the loss (i.e., but for the employee's deviation from policy, this would not have happened), the airline should at least feel responsible and make amends.
Yeah! I'm not living in the US and don't know the laws there, but I can imagine if you screw up and give the TSA no other option they are allowed to cut your locks and you have to pay for it. But if you do everything according to procedure and the airline messes up, they should be the ones paying for the damages done to your personal belongings.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 What are you going to do to hold an airline accountable? Fly with a different airline? No airline is going to care about a single passenger who most likely only bought a ticket with them because a travel agency of some variety gave a better deal with that specific flight
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind Yes, I did understand that. Maybe I wasn't that clear in whom I spoke about, when I used they. So TSA will most likely be allowed to open the gun case and is allowed to damage locks in the process, if TSA don't have the key. So if TSA don't have the key, and that is your fault you will not have any way to get your money back. But if it is not your fault, but the airlines fault, I think legally you should have the option to get your money back from that airline. If your belongings get damaged because of an error the airline made, why shouldn't they be legally responsible for the damage and have to pay for it?
I always appreciate your travel content, I've had a bunch of non-firearms related travel weirdness in the past few months. in ATL they panicked because they saw un UNLOCKED Pelican AIR and thought it was firearms and sent it to TSA, took them an hour to figure out how to get in touch with me while I'm ripping my hair out trying to source replacement parts for what I thought was a lost case of critical parts. Definitely have to update "corporate policy" now lol
The weirdest experience I've had was when the counter agent checked me in as "special." "Special" is the designation for a LEO who is carrying a loaded concealed weapon. The kid at the gate saw "Sherrif's Department" on my CCW, which was on the flip side of the ID holder with my license, and thought I was a deputy. When I got to the gate, I got called up along with another "passenger" because the captain wanted the two armed passengers to get a look at each other. The other passenger started demanding to know what agency I was with, and I was baffled. The dude was a Federal Air Marshal, and he completely blew his cover by being a hothead. Just before I boarded, I gave him a nod, and he never got on the plane.
Congratulations you made my jaw drop. They inspected the luggage with the gun and don’t lock it back up when they send it out. They have one job in this scenario right to insure the gun is secure? They literally made everything less secure while screwing with your stuff.
Don't worry, they did deep psychological evaluations of everyone that would be near that luggage after they cut the locks and sent it back out into the airport.
Employee at LAX on arrival wanted my key to open it. I said NOPE the key doesn't leave my possession...that's what the regulations say. Well that's not how we do it here...I've never done it that way. Well sorry sir, THAT'S the regulations. If I hand over the key that also transfers liability...what happens if that bag is opened and there's a firearm or property missing...do YOU want to deal with that??? I'll get my manager sir. OK great
At Seattle-Tacoma International, there's a dedicated TSA gun check station. It's been there almost as long as the TSA itself. They open the case and do their inspection. Then the owner locks the case, and it goes on the belt.
Yeah at OIA i do this all the time prescreen they put it on their luggage belt and i go on my way. Are these airports not equipped like the major airports
@@JAutry Even large-ish airports like Spokane and Tucson aren't big enough to have a dedicated firearms section given how few people travel with firearms. Instead, they use the same room for firearms as they do for over-sized luggage. Go to a small airport and they're definitely not going to have a firearms station. Some of these airports don't even have on-site police.
Where I live (not the US) you check guns at airport police and you get it at airport police (same if you are from abroad) on the other side nobody would cut a lock they will land in an African jail..if they do
thank you for not only sharing your knowledge, but doing so in such a thoughtful and concise manner. I've seen so many of your talks and workshops, and I wish more people had your talent for communication, especially in the corporate world and schools. people like you make all of us better.
It's not like you can't just jump straight to the ground from the ramp there. That lock is just to keep little kids in place, and honest people honest.
I only traveled with a firearm once and it was when I brought my hunting rifle from my parents' home to the state I had moved to. Luckily the airport staff was on the ball and I didn't have any issues with it. I'm honestly blown away by how incompetent these people are with you. You even told them what they needed to do, repeatedly, and they still fucked it up. I did once however have the TSA open my case thinking there was a firearm inside, because there was a camera tripod in there that I was traveling with to do videography at my sister's wedding. I guess they thought it looked like a rifle or something on their scanner. When they put the tripod back in the case, they snapped the foot off the bottom. This is a high end tripod mind, and the plastic they broke is PA6, the stuff they use on Makita drills and can take a 10 foot drop off a ladder. You'd almost have to be trying to break it to get it to do that. I got a nice little piece of paper saying they had entered my case. No mention of the broken tripod though. Wasn't enough money to be worth my time, so to this day, I use that tripod with the missing foot and have to adjust the one leg a little longer, because TSA.
I once flew with a bass guitar in an unlocked hard case from Houston. I walked up to the check-in counter, the agent looked at my hard case and said, "That isn't what I think it is, is it?" and I said, "A guitar?" and he said "Oh, OK, nevermind." They didn't even bother to check
I used to have a metal-suitcase that on arrival almost always got diverted with special cargo(es) then kicked out ahead of the other luggage when security sees that it doesn't need special attention; or I would be paged to head over to a secure pickup area to claim it. -Or- that was until someone shot it between Ft.Lauderdale and Toronto ... and I had to make my way to the departure terminal to collect it from a crowd of police officers instead of one of the normal secure areas in the same arrival terminal. _Until just now_ , it hadn't occurred to me that it was *more likely* an accidental discharge in the secure area; And not some jackass deliberately testing the "stainless" mark's boast that it "can stop a bullet". (it didn't). edit, 12h later: Sorry, the slogan was "It can even _catch_ a bullet!" ... I think.
Commented before a full watch: Recently when flying with my AR I was taken back to the XRay machine by an attendant. TSA locks secured my Plano case along with integrated case locks and they didn't even bat an eye at the case. I even got to look at the screen to see what it looked like under the XRay! American Airlines in Detroit was the best first experience flying with firearms I could have asked for.
I love this, the TSA gives nothing but grief and hacking the Pelican latches is f'ing genius. As someone who also travels with firearms I know only too well the policy and compliance issues that go with it. Obviously if you're lucky enough to be able to fly private/charter that's the best way to avoid headaches but any time I go thru TSA in the future I'm definitely going to use a lot of this advice. Thanks!
I travel regularly with guns and the only place I have problems is in New York City. TSA always wants the key and I refuse them. This leads them to call the Port Authority Police who then tells them they have no business handling the guns and if they open it the cop will lock up the TSA agent.
As far as I can tell, TSA in NYC is geared specifically to scare away gun owners. I've seen a few stories where they tried to lock people up who were just waiting on their next flight, or whatever.
They want to inspect it without the owner present because TSA is following ATF guideline to record every serial number of every firearm along with the owners information they come across. Same as police departments across the US are told to run the serial number and the person every time they come into contact with someone and a firearm. Illegally or legally possessed. Some state/local PD comply and others don’t. This is the ATF building and maintaining a data base of guns and owners. Illegal but still being done
You have the absolute best guide to traveling with firearms that I've ever read. Rules involving firearms are important and following those rules keeps you out of any misunderstandings. This is a great enhancement to that guide. Sadly, this experience needs more consistency from airport to airport. Rules are fine, but consistency is as important as following them. Hopefully things can improve, but it may take an act of congress (I know, I know, Roll eyes). Nice recommendation on the 83/45 Abus. I like that they have a large variety of cylinders (including Bowley Rotasera). Replaceable shackles are a bonus. Nanuk is another Pelican-esque case brand. I don't know if their locking latches are key-retaining either. Neat that it's an issue that can be fixed.
Thanks so much for appreciating my work on this topic. And yeah Nanuk are another pretty quality option, as are Hardigg and a few others. I remember I reviewed an Explorer Case product for The Firearm Blog a while back, that was decent, too. (But a bit heavy because it's built like an absolute tank)
The Nanuk TSA powerclaw latches I have do not retain the key in the unlocked position. And unfortunately, when I tried opening them with the key in the lock, the latch couldn't lift far enough to disengage with the lid. If that problem can be resolved, the lock itself can be modded in a similar way, blocking the wafer channels in the unlocked position.
I remember reading up on the legal implementation of the TSA. Many airports had privately contracted security teams already, and so there was a clause that said that if you [an airport] can prove that you can an equal or better quality job then you can fill out a form to get a TSA exemption. I might argue that no security at all does an equal or better job than TSA, and for a fraction of the cost! lol
Yes. There are still two airports that I regularly fly through which have private security. San Francisco is the big one that everyone knows about. South Dakota has the other.
@@GameCyborgChIm not a big fan of TSA but in all fairness I don’t feel its fair to make the slam on the whole organization. Most of the disruptions in procedure and various stupid ways they conduct business is directed down to the workers from a DEI hire inexperienced supervisor’s having the authority to make policy that never started from the base and worked themselves up through merit.
This is a great video on travelling with guns but I think it's also important to point out that traveling with guns can be a great way to protect other equipment. I travel a lot with photography equipment so the investment of a $150 to get a cheap starter pistol allows you to put your own locks on the case and makes my photo equipment far less likely to walk away when going through security. Unfortunately I learned this after a camera body disappeared going through TSA checkpoints.
There's an old video (might be from a conference talk) from Deviant about this exact thing, there he mentions it doesn't even have to be a full gun. a receiver is enough and if the people at check in start any fuss about it "not being a gun", that talk had the magic words which I don't remember to remind them that receiver indeed is the gun as far as the law is concerned.
Ive got a fraternity brither that was a Captain in 82nd Aitborne and they were deploying to Iraq early in DS2. They had full combat loads leaving the US. Full auto rifles, combat knives, and grenades. The TSA confinscated his nail clippers.
wow, saw your vid on modding a mortar case for traveling with firearms (I'm a 0341). Your tip about keeping a copy of TSA and airline policy with me saved my butt - ticket agent wanted me to give her the key ('they do it all the time') . Stood firm with the policies in hand and she got everything handled in 10 min b4 I went to the gate . Good to run across your channel again.
I was under the impression TSA rules state that a firearm case must be fastened with a lock that ONLY you have a key for, and not even TSA should have that key.
Correct, it's law. Only YOU can possess the key or combination to your bag locks. Carry a copy of the regs and show it to the first person who checks you in.
Yes you as the owner of that firearm are the only person who is authorized to hold a key and at no time shall that key be removed from your possession or control if you do not have a key and padlock a C-TPAT approved wire lead seal may be used
Your patience while dealing with that airline and their unwillingness or inability to communicate is astounding, because at that point I would be giving them a five minute ultimatum that could end with a firearm being reported stolen.
@@SoloRenegade Technically, it's conversion, because you handed it to them on purpose then they kept it without continued permission. Realistically, you're never going to get a charge to stick, because they were trying (poorly) to do their lawful ("lawful") job. And theft or conversion generally requires actual intent to keep the object. I think you're more likely to get a vandalism charge to stick, since somewhere between the airline and TSA, they knowingly destroyed a lock. But it's still a stretch, since no one person committed the entire act of vandalism. The ticketing agent negligently failed to report the situation to TSA, but didn't intend for the lock to get cut. And the baggage TSO made an attempt to contact the passenger, but was probably told to just get it done since they were holding the flight up at that point. Someone should definitely have to pay for the new lock (likely the airline in this case), but unless a simple claims form works, it's likely far more trouble than it's worth actually suing them.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 Small claims court IS suing. And there's no small claims court in federal law, so you'd have to sue under state law for that to work. Not sure it does.
Pilot: "We'll hold [the plane] for ya." Wow, lucky guy; I've never heard of anyone getting that kind of personal service based on _their_ want before! Nice guy! Maybe out of policy, but cool!
Honestly seems like the pilot just understood that airport staff and tsa fucked up and wanted to extend some courtesy to the dude. It's kinda like how I don't leave the shop with my flatbed until everything that's supposed to be there, is there
@@hf117j: Yeah, and if so, then that's good of them... the "adult/mature" thing to do. I just didn't even really know they could do that. In most cases I would think they wouldn't dare. So this is cool.
That's not being nice, it's law. A passenger can not leave the aircraft after boarding and the plane just takeoff. A plane can also not takeoff with a person's luggage and the person not on the aircraft. It's a terrorism thing.
Another infuriating thing. TSA themselves state thay "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock...." yet they just cut the lock if you have a non-TSA lock, and if its a TSA lock, any number of people will have the key
The best thing you can do in the event that your luggage is tampered with in ANY way os to threaten the airline with a call to the ATF. NOBODY wants to deal with the ATF, especially TSA and airline companies. If your lock has been cut and/or replaced, or if they cant find your case, are holding it hostage, etc... tell the airline youre calling the ATF, i promise they will get you your case amd all contents within ASAP.
It'll work, but there's a good chance you'll be on both groups' crap list after that. However, the ATF IS the responsible authority for transport of firearms across state lines, not the TSA.
A suggestion: if the airline insists on putting it through normal baggage, go to the TSA checkpoint and ask for a supervisor. Explain your problem to the supervisor: that the airline put your firearm through the regular baggage area and that you have the key on your person. The supervisor can just radio over to the baggage TSO and figure the problem out from there. I would suggest asking for the supervisor right when they check your ID. If they're able to just run your key to baggage while you get screened, then meet you on the sterile side of the screening area, that's nicer. But there's a decent chance you'll have to walk out to the front counter to hand the baggage TSO your key directly, and there's no reason to go through passenger screening twice. There are stupid people everywhere, but talking to TSA directly is much more likely to succeed than dealing with the airline if their guy is that incompetent. Also, your airline should have the TSA managers on speed dial. If a supervisor can't get hold of TSA, there's a problem.
TSA still screws up - hence the pelican "fixed" locking latches. But yes, I'd raise a hell of a fuss the moment an airliner indicates they can't reach TSA if I had firearms that were not able to be accounted for, or worse, TSA calls me and wants the key but the airline personnel won't assist.
Man, thank you. I left LAX for BWI, and my handgun in my locked case got shipped to Miami. The airline said I would have the bag within 3 days. I told them I had to report, per state law, any missing or stolen firearms within 24 hours, and they really did not want this to become a newsworthy issue. I had the locked bag in my hands within 8 hours, delivered to my house. Now I double check my luggage tags when they are checked. And now I know what else to do to prevent issues. Again, thank you.
I had a counter agent in Colorado Springs freak out so bad and hyperventilate when I told her I had a "special Item" in my luggage. I had to talk her down and I had pre-printed the FAA rules and the airline rules pages and gave them to her.
TSA is completely worthless. I carry tools with me (because I an a traveling technician). Sir this screwdriver is 2 inches too long or what was the other thing they took from me.... an adjustable wrench or something? Yea these nitwits don't understand anything.
yup you have to have nothing longer then 7.25 any longer and no go. it is a rule. follow it or check it bro. why do you get to bend the rule. because you are a technician. who is the nit-wit. just using your words buddy.@@OramiIT
If I have a screwdriver that is 2 inches shorter somehow that is allowed. From a weapon standpoint it’s still deadly. They aren’t protecting anyone. Same thing with water or a sealed beverage. What are they actually stopping? What are they preventing? TSA is a waste of resources just more government bloating.
from the experiences that friends I have that have flown as armed LEO's, civilians traveling with firearms and one former Air Marshal, the entire TSA operationally from top to bottom has been a cluster from the very start.
Got in a debate with @activeselfprotection about the fact that this happens at all, let alone frequently. It's frustrating how often government agencies blatantly break laws and violate thier own regs with no consequences.
They gave a bunch of people paid probably 2 dollars an hour over minimum wage a 300 page manual of what they're supposed to do, they read it once and probably remembered it just long enough to answer a multiple choice quiz and then instantly forgot everything about it.
@@bytoadynolastname6149 It's more comprehensive than that. There's a 1-week basic course followed by a few weeks of supervised OJT. Then a 2-week advanced course followed by a few more weeks of OJT. Baggage TSOs then go through yet another course followed by more OJT. And there is quite a lot of oversight. Any significant deviation from policy causes the TSO to be de-certified on that system and requires minor re-training to be re-certified. There is a lot of incompetence at all levels of TSA that really shouldn't exist. And the fact that TSA has zero constitutional authority to do what the state governments should be handling is troubling. In this case, though, it's not TSA's fault (other than for existing). This case seems to be entirely on the airlines, who have no excuse for this incompetence. Even if you removed TSA, we'd just go back to local security (like we had before TSA) and the airline would do the same dumb stuff.
@@dracobengali : Of course, there's also the possibility that the supervisor "had a 'senior moment' "???? Or, perhaps the junior officer is a "favorite"/"pet" of the supervisor????
They can, they're just too incompetent to know how to chance channel. Airports use a DMR network for radios, there's something called talk groups where they can switch to different channels (Ground crew, TSA, Boarding etc). U literally just have to change a little dial ontop of the radio.
It's just astounding to me how an entire airport can't get ahold of the tsa. It's like the airline doesn't even know that they exist despite them being part of the security and they share a building and a common goal (getting people's bags on the plane) it just makes no sense as to how they have absolutely no communication between each other.
When I flew my guns from one state to the other(from my Dad's house to where I currently live) I had a really funny /sad thing happen. I checked my locked case, which had one rifle and one pistol and all was fine. I got on my flight and my luggage made it to my destination but my gun case did not. There was no connection to miss..it was direct with no layover, baggage change. I also checked in WAY early, like over 2 hours early so there was no chance that my case couldn't make it. LIke I said..my bags made it, my gun case did not. So I report this to baggage desk and then leave my information. Then I call back later that day, then the next and no movement or no one can seem to tell me where they are. So, one of my best friends and my neighbor down the street was a federal conservation officer and he knows everyone in that state's law enforcement community..whether local or federal. So I call him and tell him what's going on...and he sayd "I'm gonna call my buddy at the local FBI field office and he also handles a lot of federal cases(smuggling, etc) at the airport and knows his way around. "Great I say". ONE HOUR LATER...I get a call from the airline and they *magically* found my guns and they'll have them delivered lickety split to my house, sir! Pretty fucking sad. Imagine if I wasn't lucky enough to have friends who were federal law enforcement with some juice on my side?!?! The fucking TSA is a disgrace. Apparently the TSA had it set aside for "inspection", but what that agent and my buddy told me is they will "on purpose" lose gun cases or set them aside for later "inspection" and if no one makes too much of a fuss for too long or they don't get some sort of call like they got, then they'll just try to steal it.
same thing happens with electronics - Kiro7 Seattle did a sting with a Seatac TSA agent that stole a bait iPad, tracked it to their house, brought cameras, asked them if they took an iPad from Baggage, and after they denied it, they triggered the alarm. It was easily heard on the cameras as the dumbass thief had it stashed in his coat closet right next to the door.
Who could have guessed that if you set up a federal agency that can do whatever they want with no oversight or consequences if they screw up, they will quickly be worse than useless.
Cool.. except that it violates federal law to deliver guns without a FFL. The airlines going point to point is a special exemption. Fed ex etc refuse to deliver firearms for just this reason.
@@gbear1005 Good to know. For clarification they did not actually deliver the guns to my house, I went and got them. I said "No..I'll come get them". Probably the airline person calling me didn't know that yet.
@@gbear1005 that's entirely bullshit. You have to have an FFL to sell a firearm to someone. Transporting someone's own firearms to them is perfectly fine.
I had TSA try tell me i was responsible for my lock breaking thier bolt cutters, and a piece of the broken cutters cutting a person. All they had to do was ask for the key. Small scratches on the shackle and case. I wish i could remember who made those locks & case, or i would pay the make. This was back in 2008.
@@jebediahkerman8245 because you sign a declaration stating you're the only one with the key or combo to the lock on the case. By using a TSA lock, you're not in compliance with what you've signed.
best option call the BATFE and report a break in of your secure case and missing firearm. this can close an airport quickly and get the TSA to have to show the video of them breaking into your property. this is a very bad experience with all airlines regularly you are one of the lucky ones Ollam, and of course we have the police to lazy to do there jobs.
Sounds like a pretty high-impact solution... granted, I could see how that would have the desired end-effect of getting people trained to not do the stupid things they're currently doing, but... at great cost (and I don't mean financial, though probably a bit of that, too) to many people (and I don't mean the airlines or TSA)... so... is it worth it???
You know that old adage that goes like "calling the cops rarely helps most situations" well that goes double for the ATF. Seriously, have as little contact with them as possible. Do not make it a habit to call them on other's, they are a nightmare agency and will likely make your life difficult too, that's IF they care at all in the first place.
@@dark2023-1lovesoni Nobody's saying it won't be a wretched experience, but it will certainly put the wind up the airport and encourage them to not have it happen again.
@@Kerbtree or the ATF may seize the weapon for an investigation and never return it. If it DID cause any big stir at the airport you could then easily wind up being charged for "criminal obstruction" or "false report of a felony", a conviction of either would cost you your gun rights. The ATF and TSA are both government enforcement agencies and their personnel will likely feel more kinship with each other than you. I really think this sort of call would have a much higher chance of either going nowhere or working out badly for you. Most likely what would actually happen is that the ATF will take a report over the phone and then tell you to wait a few days/weeks for them to get back to you. During which time they'll mostly just list the weapon's serial # as stolen and probably not do any serious investigation. They mostly just want a record so they can blame you if the gun shows up later at a crime scene. They exist to make sure citizens follow rules, they aren't there to hold another government agency accountable.
We used those same locks for a LOT of uses when I was in the military, I've still got a bunch sitting around because they've been so good to me. They were almost exclusively what I used to secure my rifle.
No I thought the airport the only people you're trusting with your lives are the pilots, TSA is the fallback plan. And if you notice in this video the pilots seem to be the only ones that have a brain
So it seems like a possible solution might be to speak with TSA at security and ask THEM to radio whoever is looking at the bags rather than trying to get the airport staff to do it. What is strange is I bet the airport staff have communication capability with TSA if there is an incident, but they probably failed to have general contact information.
"So the TSA knows that people are right there on the other side of the wall." Of course they know that; the case didn't get loaded onto that belt by itself.
When my grandmother died, my aunt, uncle, and 3 cousins flew from California to Pennsylvania… and the airline lost everyone’s luggage, full of dress clothes for viewings/services/ etc. Took months to get them back - one at a time.
As a content consumer, I love videos like this. You learn so much more when people rant from events they've experienced. This really shows how much customers struggle even when following their own procedures. The best way to counteract the scenarios is being prepared in advance.
Next video Deviant shows how the case was left un-latched because the agent or agents removed their key with the latch in the open, locked position and therefore we’re unable to properly close and lock the case. Alternately, the case will show up with the key or broken key stuck in the lock, probably taped shut with stuff sticking out.
When I flew out of BDL moving across country I had my cats and my guns coming along. It surprisingly went smoothly bar my cat puking on the connecting flight. I wrote my name, email, phone on every side of my gun case with a paint pen. I wanted no ambiguity as to whose that was and who to call if there was an issue. The cat bags also I had made patches with names/emails even though we had them in the cabin
A buddy of mine and I flew to Montana with our rifles, my case arrived unmolested, my friends was opened, his magazines and ACOG were gone along with the locks. The TSA claims his case popped open, a report was filed with the police and nothing came of it.
I had zero trouble traveling out of AUS for Desert Brutality 2022 with my AUG and M9 in the box. I flew American. The check-in staff knew to let me take the bag over to the special screening area (that was right next to their desk). Those TSA guys stuck it in the machine, verified the locks then thew it on their own belt. Everybody that morning seemed to know what to do. Bags made it fine, and I also had no issues on the way back, beyond the fact it took forever to bring it to the special baggage pickup area after we landed.
@@stevevernon1978 this is the EXACT same airport and TSA team as in Dev's escapade. I lucked out with my airline and TSA crew that early morning. It's possible to not get hassled there.
I once flew out of Huston tx on United. i filled out the orange paper and they took it on the regular belt. Then when I got on the plane a stewardess came over to me and whispered in my ear.. sir, do you still have your gun on your person? I'm like no I wish I did but no I checked it. totally clueless.. Flying out of Newark NJ regularly I have no issue, they walk me to the TSA room, they scan it and and say ty and I'm on my way...
It's not just firearms. I was flying out of Norfolk with an EO-TECH, and a magnifier in my carry-on. I got pulled out of the TSA checkpoint, stuffed in a plexiglass gerbil cage. I was told that I couldn't have them in my carry-on because they were "firearm parts." A TSA supervisor said that anything that could mounted to a firearm is a firearm part. I calmly and politely remonstrated with him that a flashlight could could be mounted to a firearm, and they didn't seem have a problem with that. He replied that that was different. Then he suggested that I could just leave $900 in optics in the friggin "lost & found," "as a personal favor" to me, and I could reclaim them when I came back in two weeks. Now, we all know they would have been in his car 5 minutes after I got on the airplane, and two weeks later, they would have no idea where they were. I'll admit, I got a little belligerent at that point. Two airport police officers were summoned. Short version, I missed my flight, had to book another one, check my bag, and wait around for 3 more hours until my new flight. While I was waiting, the TSA dickhead came up to me like we were best pals, and asked, "Oh, hey, did everything work out ok?" I told him to the fuck away from me, before I broke his goddamn jaw. And he scurried off.
Yep, bad enough that they are incompetant, but, then, they are, also, thieves. More thefts committed by TSA employees than total number of hijackers caught (zero, zilch, nada, 0)
Dev, Thank you so much for this video. Your pain is my gain. I travel with Firearms and so far, have not had that issue except once and it was my own stupidity. I was waiting for my bag at the regular carousel instead of the special area that you mentioned.
Bless you for this video, I’m sorry for your ‘TSA’ experience. I recently retired and bought some good gun cases for vehicular gun security with the possibility of airline flight. Now I know what sacrificial padlock to offer up to the tender mercies of the Guv’mint. I feel safer already.
I suggest with those key retaining latches that you put some kind of notice either on or next to or above/below the latch that indicates it is key retaining so they don't potentially break the latch trying to get their key out. Insert joke about some TSA not being able to read.
Former airline GSC (15 years ago…) and when you said the airline employee wanted to see your firearm is when I started paying active attention. So now not even 3 minutes in, here’s how it used to be done, in California. Passenger comes to check in and declares they are carrying a firearm. We had them the form to fill out that goes in their locked, hard sided case and explain that the local clearance is done downstairs (TSA had a special screening machine for this in the terminal we were in, this varied by airport back then, but we liked it because it meant our passenger got immediate clearance and we never had to track them down because the gun was loaded - it was caught while the passenger was there, and our TSA were pretty relaxed about it), we escorted them carrying it to the TSA, they scanned it and either cleared it then and there or took the bag and passenger into a separate room for further inspection (always if the gun was loaded or they saw more than the allowed amount of ammo, 5% of the time randomly). Your story is horrifying me already.
Would love to see a video about crosskeying locks to your homes keyway, as I'm currently carrying around a warden-esque keyring and would love to downsize on it by unifying some locks bitting!
Thank you for enduring that to make it easier on everyone else. I'm curious if those modified latches will allow re-locking without being latched though, as if that is the case, you can very likely expect to have your luggage locked, but un-latched. It's probably a good idea to put a couple of your spare padlocks inside each case regardless, with a note that says to use them if needed.
@@DeviantOllam What I mean to say is that you will receive a case with the latches unlatched, but locked, so that the inspector gets their key back, but still leaves you screwed over... As that is their reason for getting out of bed in the morning.
Like most things in this realm of incompetency things won't change until people start going to jail. All of these issues can be fixed by the administration C-Suite level people in charge of these companies starting to care enough to start making policy changes to fix these issues.
On my way to TX for a competition, with my competition rifle legally checked in, TSA messed with my optics beyond quick repair. I ended up withdrawing from competition. Did I get any compensation? Hell no! If I see a TSA agent catch fire and burn in the desert I wouldn’t piss on him to put it out.
Yeah, bad enough you get your lock cut off but if they (TSA) are dumb enough to not know how to open a lock, imagine the damage they could do when handling your firearm.
This only shows the sheer ineptitude of the TSA, and airlines. I know this is supposed to just inform people, but this shows the stupidity that's supposed to "protect" us. And the level of...ineptitude is truly aggravating.
There needs to be fines to tsa when they cut locks.
There needs to be consequences for improper procedure.
The problem is, if somebody messes up, the scenario defaults to: a) not repeimanding the person at all b) firing the person responsible and replacing that position with another former burger flipper with no responsibility either.
I don't think you understand how the gov works. They bend you over and violate you. In turn, YOU pay your taxes and pay THEIR salary so they can continue to be as incompetent as ever. They have no incentive to get better or to do better, only to continue on course. Welcome to America.
@@JanicekTrnecka Hey don't diss on burger flippers. There's actual consequences for when they burn the burger patty.
Make the TSA agents accountable for their actions and personally responsible for any damage.
The issue is they have a choice of least bad scenario. If they let something through the shouldn't they could go to prison for a long time. Nobody wants to be the guy that allowed something to go through that's used in a hijacking. It's the classic on the job problem of "there's no scenario where I don't do something wrong so what's the least bad choice?"
I mean, I used to work airport security (not in USA) and I handled a _lot_ of firearm bags. This kind of nonsense is completely bizarre incompetence at all levels. It's not like this kind of thing doesn't usually happen pretty much every day with people on flights at any busy airport, how can the gate personnel, the ramp personnel and TSA be such complete idiots?
Lack of accountability, that's what. Nobody gets reprimanded for this. They just screw around with you and nobody gets so much as any additional training to how to handle this BS in the future.
Airline administration is almost entirely made up of middle-aged Karens who used to be stewardesses, they're not particularly intelligent or efficient at anything. And the TSA are actively bad at literally every part of their job, because the only people who apply to work for the TSA are people who were too stupid not only to be cops, but to be prison guards, mall cops, and school security guards.
What country did you work in? I've never flown but I always find videos like this very interesting.
you can't have accountability without education and .. look man, tsa doesn't have much in the education side. they recruited barely literate people.
@@lasskinn474 i believe the word you're looking for is "subliterate"
If you can work at McDonald's and don't have a record, you can work at the TSA
Concerning that TSA is so nonchalant about leaving unsecured firearms floating around the airport. They really seem to be driving airport security backwards.
A record 6,542 guns - 18 a day - were intercepted at U.S. airport security in 2022
TSA aren’t even real peace officers they are hired off the street
@@michaels.starnes194and? 18 people a day or one guy with multiple forget a firearm in their carryon. They aren’t malicious Einstein
@@WRSND Maybe not, they might just be fucking mor0ns, if you do not know were your weapons are then that is a major problem. I can tell you were all of mine are and if the are loaded or not.
Remember TSA means theatrical security agency, as they have not stopped one terrorist yet!
You are a saint for staying so calm when dealing with those clueless airport employees.
It takes a lot of work, but I thank you for your appreciation of it =)
@DeviantOllam those wafer blockers can probably be had from any locksmith that stocks/installs CompX Fort locks, the plastic blockers come with every cam lock.
@@EMTDawg Yes I have lots of those but I think those are too long. The back set on these teeny locks is smaller even than 5/8"
Maybe he's just a coward!
When the problem is this widespread, it’s not the people, but the airlines at fault. They surely aren’t prioritizing fixing it.
And I’m not surprised - they will never admit it, but I’m sure they would rather people didn’t fly with firearms, so don’t want to induce more demand by making it easy.
All this could be cleared up by just having a TSA agent come physically pick the bag up when you check it in. Then having the TSA agent physically walk the bag to the loading bay and visually watching the bag be loaded onto the plane.
It used to be that flying with a firearm almost always guaranteed your bag would never be lost, because they didn't put it in the automated system. Because there was a high fear of not knowing where a gun was at all times in an airport.
1. How dare you bring logic into this converstaion. 2. You want govt agency employees to walk? 3. Don't you know the purpose of govt jobs is to do as little as possible while collecting a pay check 4. This is obviously written with sarcasm.
Some airports do. Unfortunately as they always say, “Every airport is different” which also mean different management directives. At the airport I work at we hand check every firearm case before sending it on it’s way to the airline. The only time I’ve ever cut a lock on a firearm case is when the passenger forgot the key or combination.
where a
@@The_Riot its way
That would be too easy.
I just love how TSA is one of those godlike agencies that can do what they want with no accountability.
And no competency.
5ish years ago I was returning home from a convention where I won a matted painting from an Art Auction. I get up to the xray, and request they hand the matted painting through because it will get stuck on the conveyor.
They got very upset when I suggested this, and INSISTED it go through the x-ray. (This is an acrylic painting on mat-board. It is less than a quarter inch thick. It got jammed in the x-ray, and the tech tried to free it by jamming the belt forward as fast as possible. This caused the luggage behind it to push my painting through the machine, beinding it in a z shape. I was LIVID. Heck the 3 people behind me that witness this were livid.
And the vast majority of their employee are either senior citizens or local gangbangers.
Well it's another 3 letter agency so...😂
A record 6,542 guns - 18 a day - were intercepted at U.S. airport security in 2022
My favorite TSA story is still when I used to fly armed as a LEO picking up a prisoner for extradition. There was a protocol to follow and it generally went off without too much trouble. Once as I picked up my boarding pass after going through the dog and pony show the clerk asked, as she handed me the pass, "Do you have any sharp objects on your person?" I asked, "What part about "peace officer flying armed" do you not understand?" She said, "Oh, I know. We have to ask." I said, "No ma'am. No sharp edges on this 10mm Colt."
But technically you could pinch someone pretty hard with the hammer and break skin. Just sayin'. 😉
Your department is rocking 10mm?
@@joemama69448 Back in the day we had to buy our own. 9mm up was the only restriction.
Having a Beretta M9 in 9mm and a Springfield Armory XD-M Elite 4.5" in 10mm I'd use the 10mm everyday and twice on Sunday over a 9mm (all else being equal).
@@dundonrl When you care enough to send the best.
1 month ago in Pittsburg , I hand carried my firearm case to TSA so they could inspect it. The agent did an X-ray and visual inspection right in front of me and then brought the case over to me for lock installation. Imagine my surprise when my case arrived in Seattle with the locks removed. The locks were 12 hours old when installed and why does TSA need in again after they themselves have cleared the case? This is equivalent to setting up another metal detector at the airplane!
Are they inspecting that the gun is un-loaded ?? or what are they looking for ?? What would "fail" an inspection, or is it just a drug search ??
@Peter Darr In my case, I took the rifle case to the ticket agent and filled out a declaration in their view. The declaration stated that the rifle was unloaded and checked by me. The declaration then went in the case, and the case was left unlocked. Next, I carried it roughly 100 feet to a TSA kiosk. The TSA agent had me open the case and looked at the rifle (which was actually disassembled) and the declaration. He then took it to another station within my view and ran it through x-ray and visual checks. He also removed part of the foam protection pad, then replaced everything. Next, he brought it back to me and watched me put 2 locks on the case. Once it is locked, there is no need for further inspection. When the case arrived, Sans locks, I contacted the airline and TSA. They both stated that there is no reason to open it at that point and if there was to be a problem with the case later on, (i.e., damage or loss) they track you down at the gate rather than go through your case away from view which may bring on liability that they do not want to accept.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Is that so? So according to their own explanation, your cases were opened by someone other than TSA?
Sure is negligent of them to just leave firearms in an area where some unknown person can put heavy duty tools to them without anyone noticing
@wessltov TSA blamed the airline and the airline blamed TSA. To be fair, the case was not left open but was unlocked. All the contents were still in the case and there was no ammunition to even load the firearm but it definitely makes someone wonder how secure a weapon is when it gets tampered with, and nobody can answer why.
@@matthewstimmel7497 Maybe next time it should have a go-pro recording so you can see for yourself when the case is opened when it shouldn't be. Something along the lines of, get it inspected, cleared and approved, turn on the camera, then close and lock it up.
Fifty years ago, ALL of these incompetent people would have lost their jobs.
hey, this bag can't fly! it's supposed to be secured, and we just made it insecure!
Gee I guess they will have to "safely dispose of it" then, right? Who wants one!
@@matthewmiller6068 There is almost no chance that would happen. TSA is employed by humans, and humans are retarded. But almost none are that retarded. You're more likely to have the firearm directly stolen in the inspection room when a supervisor isn't looking, and that's still very unlikely given the nature of the charges the TSO would be facing when they almost certainly got caught.
For future reference, in Orlando, the firearm case should go to oversized luggage which is one floor below the check in desks and the person who checked you in should walk you down there. There's a TSA guy and a window in the door for them to give you a thumbs up if you're good.
Can confirm... just did this on Alaska MCO-SAN today. The Alaska crew was great, knew exactly who to call, and it was super smooth.
I've been there. Got the thumbs up through the window... STL is a nightmare, every single time. COD didn't even care to inspect, just waved it through. DEN was a PITA.
Can also confirm. DEN is similar. Someone walks you to a TSA room on the same floor as ticketing and they give you a tumbs-up through the window in the door.
Really? That's so frustrating!
The level of incompetence has gotten so bad that you'd have to walk the checkin assistant down there instead of the other way around!
👍 Orlando is great about it 👍
Making key retaining locks to force TSA to relock your bags is the smartest thing I’ve heard in a while. Just force them to be secure since they clearly can’t do it themselves
Betting $5 on the lock getting cut because "it's broke" and only after they cut it and monkey around for 30 minutes do they realize that putting it in the LOCK position frees the ke- wait, wait, nevermind, that was because we cut it off, not because we turned it back to locked. Job's done!
wouldn't it require the TSA agent to have two keys, one for each lock?
Absolutely.
And since they likely have plenty it should be no issue.
Might be an issue for the random dishonest employee with only one key.
they'd cut the key instead lol
The thing is the TSA are meant to have YOU unlock the goddam case.
You arent meant to hand the key to the TSA.
printing the regs out and being dogmatic is a nightmare but the only way.
knowing the TSA, they'll lock the latches open and tape the case shut
tape it shut, and leave the latches popped so the baggage gorillas can shear them off on the belt.
They might actually do that if they have only 1 key on hand and you have 2 locks, they'll get stumped with the stuck key and leave it locked open.
@@entropy11 Unacceptable! we all know what they are but you are not allowed to call them that word. So true and exact though
I worked at air Canada for 20 years and guns are always special handling and never put on baggage belts. Tsa is the only one who cuts locks.
I have had guns come out on on the regular belt with a big “Steel me first” tag.
@@agunther08yeah this is normal in both places lol. Depends on the place.
Thats because Canada is cucked lol
Consider yourself lucky, the TSA has cut and tossed all my Albus locks. I've submitted invoices for payment demand, telling them "hey, you threw them away without consent. I need repayment."
I'm still waiting
If you're not sending that letter weekly it will never fill their trash bin enough to notice
lol that letter will never come until you sue them in District Court for not solving your problem after 6 months
Twenty five years ago, TSA broke a TIG welding torch that was coiled up inside a hardhat. I submitted all the paperwork for them to reimburse me. I am still waiting. The head TSA office guy told me to not expect much when he handed me the paperwork. I think they just trash canned the forms after I left.
Cutting open 25-50 dollar padlocks is a beefy hidden surcharge.
They’d make great souvenirs for fans if he’d sign them… but honestly that’s a lemonade outta lemons sorta thing.
@@H3110NU - That's a fun idea! ~10 bucks in support, and a prop people can pull out when arguing that the TSA is fundamentally making people less safe.
Sometimes they cut the box!
The real fun is if you had one of the special high security locks, them trying to cut that open wouldn't be something that they'd do again.
I know someone who had to travel with one on a case, though that was one with other things on it and he had to deal with the TSA in other ways due to it because the contents were classified in the unauthorized might end up in gitmo after whatever medical attention for trying to breech the thing might cause.
He only found out about some of the security after it was unlocked from his wrist after arriving at the other end.
I think I remember Dev mentioning that the airlines would pay him back for the lock, eventually, I can't remember how long it was, but I think it was measured in years.
I use airtags to track where my bags are now. In the USA, every airport will have a few iphones that will let you know if your bags have gotten to the terminal or not. It gives you some piece of mind and you don't have to deal with airport staff to ask if your bag has cleared.
United has that on their app everytime a bag barcode is scanned at a specific destination
I have a friend who did that. Their bags sat in the lost and found, they had the make and model of the bags and other info, they wouldn't ever grab em even though they showed it's there
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 Happened like that to a traveler in Canada. He told them exactly where his "lost" luggage was, but they insisted it wasn't there. Eventually, the airline sold his luggage as unclaimed. Of course, he followed it and retrieved it.
This comment aged wonderfully. Great suggestion.
@@adamgravelin3002 glad you think so! I forgot to put one in my luggage before I left my house recently. Because I had one in my carry on I could just slip that one into my checked luggage. I always keep spares with me just in case.
I'm glad you recorded this, because if you verbally told anybody this, they would think you're nuts, because nobody would think that a crew could be this uncoordinated
Thanks to The Patriot Act. Never let an emergency go to waste.
Thank you George W
@@toddburgess5056 and all the career democrats
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
The entire false flag event was so they could do this. And hide their massive financial fraud against the American people. Among other crimes punishable by death.
@@ClumsyCars it wasn't just democrats... This pretending its just the democrats is what keeps stuff bad.
Does every criminal have a TSA key? Yes, every TSA criminal has a TSA key.
Locks only keep out honest people.
@@kindlin Not true, There's tons of honest people in the TSA, and a lock doesn't keep them out at all!
@@ilovefunnyamv2nd ha
At least, I expect a criminal would relock the case, rather than leaving it unlocked…
If they want in its not going to matter what kind of lock you put on it.
I had firearms stolen by the airport staff. Claimed they lost them for over 8 months, fighting with them nonstop then once I told them there was gps in it and called up a lawyer in the office, it miraculously turned up in like 45 seconds. They were literally holding it in the back and pretending they couldn’t find it. Got it back and they’re all rusted out, locks cut etc. I just pray they weren’t used for nefarious purposes while out of my possession
Somewhat similar experience with my Aunt that I witnessed around 2007. She was a Major at the time in the USAF who had just gotten back from Iraq. She traveled commercial back to the airport (I won't say which one, but its in the North East US). While waiting at the luggage carousel she grabbed her bag, but the case for her M9 was missing. After waiting for around a half hour, nothing showed up. At that point no one else from her flight was still there and it was a new crowd. After informing TSA, they did not care it was missing. After speaking to the airline, they didn't seem to care either other than telling her to fill out a form.
At that point she had called her Commanding Officer (who was a full bird Colonel) and told them that the Airline/Airport lost a Government Issued M9 9mm handgun. Within 15 minutes, 4 or 5 State Troopers had shown up, and someone from Homeland Security. 5 minutes later, it showed up. Locks busted off, foam cut out of the case, and the entire pistol broken down rattling around inside with the magazines missing. She was beyond pissed, and her CO said she was coming down personally. She walked back over to the TSA office and told them "I hope you enjoy your next visit from the United States Air Force". No idea what ever happened after that, but I'm sure heads rolled because clearly an airport employee was trying to steal it and either got caught in the act or knew they were about to if it showed up that fast.
Rule 1. Always get *full* names of everybody - on camera if possible.
I have an EM doctor friend that flies very frequently, and calls all the post 9-11 screening "security theater".
It is ALL theatre. Just like 9-11 was. Just like your government is. These are just playthings for the moneychangers.
Just like most of the covid 19 precautions, theater to make people feel better.
I can't agree more. The front-line imbeciles hired by the TSA traditionally have the mental acuity of a floor stocker at your local Goodwill. And I'm not bashing on goodwill employees here. This is all theatre because the public accepts it. Have you ever flown commercial out of Israel? That is at least much more competent security, and if you know what to look for in the airport there are armed plain-clothes police and military within probably 3-4 seconds of any incursion point. Sorry TSA, what you literally provide is merely an inconvenience to most travelers and simply a diversion point to be exploited for anyone truly capable of such tactics.
As a pilot it 100% is theater. Any engineer could put any weapon they want on board the airplane before it gets boarded, pilots also have access to the aircraft when it's on the company side. Weapons could be tucked in food service (this would take one person on the outside and one on the inside, but also an option... lots of options, but the point is that the peasant harassment isn't worth the frightfully small gain to safety: it's all just for money.
@@wilfdarr not to mention 9-11 wasn't done with guns, it was done with boxcutters, precisely because they weren't prohibbited.
It would be fun to put a sticker on the case with any regulations and statutes printed on it.
Exactly. It's called social engineering. Just print and glue an instruction on the case, with pictures, that looks like it can be a real TSA instruction and roll with it. The humans will follow the instructions without second thought.
I was thinking the same thing, it seems like something he could sell on his website too ;D
I had that thought. Would also like to have a way to imply that this is part of an audit.
@@NeilAbalone yes some sort of laminated sheet again could come with purchase of the sticker pack. I was thinking how do you identify the case without identifying the case? like I could see you putting your phone number on there but maybe not "hey this is a gun". or is that perfectly acceptable?
The problem is that it starts at the Check-in. The drones there insist that gun cases are regular luggage when they're not. And trying to convince them otherwise is probably hopeless.
Airline Agent on radio: "I don't know what is going on." Yeah, we established that a long time ago. Hopefully the airline got fined for being late pushing back from the gate.
I will always remember you as the guy that tried to help me unlock my sisters phone after she had a stroke.
I will always appreciate the effort and the kindness
In response to making the TSA do their job:
I'm finding that *every industry* has a minority of people who take pride in their work, and a majority that just punch the clock.
@@user-641g2g1szxcy , or just don’t care, I would say.
Just realized this?
With the TSA, the key word is minority
It's to be expected under our economic system. We're not passionate because our labor is stolen, our work is broken and highly segmented, and we are basically held hostage by our jobs.
I wish "pride in their work" was the only thing TSA took
The best part of all of this is, there is a firearm somewhere in the airport, and nobody knows where.
As a non-American these 'Flying With Firearms' videos are both entertaining and infuriating. The level of incompetence in the handling makes my blood boil, just from watching. That's even without the added stress of getting on a plane on time.
It's not incompetence; it's contempt. Contempt for the law and firearms owners.
its a problem only encountered by people with extra money to burn. most americans dont actually fly everywhere with guns. most dont even fly anymore (various reasons for that). this is a rich person problem.. not the average american.
@@reburgcam I'm sure as hell not rich, and I've flown with firearms multiple times. Dev is flying for his JOB, I doubt he's "rich" either, though I'm sure he makes more than me.
@@LdHrothgar you have extra cash to buy guns. You are rich. Anytime you can afford unnecessary toys. It's wealth.
@@LdHrothgar i hope some day to be as WEALTHY as you and be able to afford to buy a gun. .you are truely financially blessed to have something i personally am not rich enough to afford. you are definitely rich.
You sir, are a saint for actively getting into these situations and exploring the causes and possible solutions. Thank you!
Why do you expect people making minimum wage in dead end jobs to give a flying fig about doing anything but the bare minimum. You're demanding operational excellence and efficiency from wage slaves who are barely making ends meet due to inflation. You're lucky half of them even showed up to work. Welcome to America.
As a "saint" he should strongly stop taking the Lord's name in vain... Juss sayin!
I was a Funeral Detail NCOIC in the Army. We had a major WTF once in Atlanta Airport. We had all our paperwork in order and we had orders and the weapons were listed in the orders by serial number. We had used the TSA locks so that the TSA can look in the case if needed too, as we were ordered to. The Rifle teams M-4's were supposed to be loaded into the aircraft but they disappeared between the check-in and the loading terminal. I had asked if the weapons were loaded and was told they were. Low and behold we got to the place where were were going, Michigan, to do the funeral for our fallen Brother, and 3 weapon cases were missing. 3 M-4's that belonged to the US Army were gone. It took me a while to find out that they got "misplaced" and were going to be on the next flight to our destination, which was the next day thankfully. One soldier and I had to wait in Detroit overnight and pick up the weapons and rent a second vehicle and drive the 3 hours to the where we had to be. It was stressful to say the least.
pretty fucking sad that crayon eaters can count better than TSA agents. 1 rifle, 2 rifle, 3 rifle, 4...
At least when I was checking in rifles for a FOB cycle at Fort Bliss, I had the easy part of knowing EXACTLY how many weapons were already out and who had which one, so if one got "misplaced", I, and my Top would know who was getting a new asshole before their next Article15 hearing.
Sounds like a Delta problem not TSA
@@TheSADOHUNTER thank you for your service and the respect for our fallen.
I am so sick of incompetent airport employees.
@@TheOnlySaneAmericanyou can thank the demorats and their forced DEI hiring procedures.
Big padlock thanks the TSA for the extra business they're bringing in
I've only flown with firearms once, a long while ago in New Jersey, so my memory is fuzzy. I walked up to the counter, let them know I had a firearm, they called the TSA who came over, and carried the case to their special screening area, with me trailing behind, they sent the case through their machines, opened it with my key to look, and then sent it off to be loaded. All with me standing there. And then I went on my merry way and picked up the case at my destination at the airline service counter, no problem.
That's how it SHOULD work. Denver Airport also has a TSA screening room around the corner from the check in counters that works similarly.
But many airports around the country haven't been updated to add this, or don't train agents well enough (or they're so low volume for armed travelers) that they either don't have a procedure, or its not well know. Then you run into the issues as described here.
@@mlindholm or in a lot of these cases, the check-in staff are ignoring such things to start that redirection.
Beuracrat: WHAT!? YOU HAD A EASY TIME GETTING THROUGH WITH A FIREARM!? WE CAN'T HAVE THAT! *Makes annoying nonsense rules!*
It's not like they let you carry your axe on board so you can cut your way into the baggage area of the plane to get it. If guns go off at high altitude on their own, I am sure the military would have noticed it by now as their planes blow up in flight.
Holy shit thank you.
It really sucks when you have to be the expert when you're surrounded by Einsteins
I truly appreciate everything you teach us on your videos. I watched my first episode tonight, then liked, and subscribed.
I find it a shame that the TSA can’t be held liable for their actions when you lose thousands of $$$ because they messed up.
I cant believe how incompetent airport staffs are in america regarding tsa related issues
It's a government job.. I have yet to find a government employee that knows what they are doing or have any kind of urgency to get the job done and done properly. Used to work for the TSA (Federal Air Marshalls) And could not wait until I found another job. It was all about filling space and getting a paycheck. Never how to streamline and be efficient for the customer (The Taxpayer).
That's government for ya. Over pay for everything and deliver nothing.
@Russ Timberman Air Marshals are not TSA agents. I don’t believe you were an air marshal due to the fact that you said you left them. The pay and benefits of an air marshal are EXACTLY the same as US Marshals because they are the same department. You’d be retarded for leaving them because of how they manage things when promotion in the department is very easy as long as you are intelligent and have common sense, so you could have easily rose through ranks to change things. I work for the FPS(Federal Protective Services), and I would never leave a heavily competitive job that literally millions are competing for when there’s only hundreds of spots available. Federal law enforcement are one of the hardest type of careers to get in the federal government due to training, and available spots. I’ve been with FPS for 2 years and I am already shift supervisor due to my military training and grade(graduated ALC and is now a Staff Sergeant in the army reserve).
@@Unchainedful government and state jobs allow swapping BETWEEN other departments and positions, for all you know he entered into work with another department that handles similar types of things, maybe he went into security, or police. I can't speak on his comments about working for the TSA (though honestly someone telling the air marshals they work for the TSA would NOT surprise me) but his statements about HOW those jobs are handled I can absolutely back up. I'll refrain from clarifying my position because I'm still in active service but when I was starting the amount of "sit and look pretty" that I did was STAGGERING. Working a straight 8 I think in total I actually "worked" maybe three hours? And hell I had a government/state issued vehicle which I could radio in and out from (clock in/clock out) so hell, you'd radio in in the morning sitting in your driveway, probably not leave until like, another 30 minutes has passed, and you're home 30 minutes to an hour before your shift ends (usually doing paperwork but still). Government and state are NOT at all in any hurry to get employees working, let alone for the people who pay their salaries
@@TotlKaos Firefighters and postal workers are often good, hardworking people
I'm 10 minutes in and already the only way I see this issue getting fixed is if passengers start standing their ground and demand that the airlines and TSA follow their own policies. You as a passenger might miss a few flights, but hold the airlines accountable.
I can't believe there isn't some kind of serious escalation available for these policy deviations that at least leads to the airline reimbursing the cost of the padlocks! They had a policy and their employees failed to follow it, causing loss to a passenger - how do they not feel an ethical duty to right that, even if they have no legal obligation to do so?
@@djcfrompt The problem is we are dealing with two separate entities; the airline and then the TSA. The airline is going to say that it was the TSA that cut the locks. The TSA is going to say the airline/passenger didn't provide the key so we cut the locks. Who is responsible?
As a passenger, we need to have all of the pertinent policies on hand to show the airline desk staff and then demand that they follow them. Don't take, "Well we don't do that here" as an answer. If TSA fails to follow their own policies, then make a complaint to their Office of Inspector General.
@@Sku11Leader right, and there is certain to be lots of finger pointing, but my argument is that if the airline employee's failure to follow the airline's own policies leads to the loss (i.e., but for the employee's deviation from policy, this would not have happened), the airline should at least feel responsible and make amends.
@@djcfrompt uhh, the only "ethical duty" any corporation has, really, is profits for their shareholders. 😢
The TSA, I dunno, but for the airlines...
I suspect that these policies (and possibly laws) are deliberately obtuse to encourage civilians to not fly with firearms.
I love the "security" really getting shown off when people working together can't even establish basic contact
Start charging the airlines for your replacement locks. This is absolutely amazing.
Yeah! I'm not living in the US and don't know the laws there, but I can imagine if you screw up and give the TSA no other option they are allowed to cut your locks and you have to pay for it. But if you do everything according to procedure and the airline messes up, they should be the ones paying for the damages done to your personal belongings.
@@livinghypocrite5289 The TSA isn't the airline, it's the government
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind The airline has more clout with the TSA than you do, so holding the airline accountable is more likely to affect the TSA.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 What are you going to do to hold an airline accountable? Fly with a different airline? No airline is going to care about a single passenger who most likely only bought a ticket with them because a travel agency of some variety gave a better deal with that specific flight
@@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind Yes, I did understand that. Maybe I wasn't that clear in whom I spoke about, when I used they.
So TSA will most likely be allowed to open the gun case and is allowed to damage locks in the process, if TSA don't have the key. So if TSA don't have the key, and that is your fault you will not have any way to get your money back.
But if it is not your fault, but the airlines fault, I think legally you should have the option to get your money back from that airline. If your belongings get damaged because of an error the airline made, why shouldn't they be legally responsible for the damage and have to pay for it?
I always appreciate your travel content, I've had a bunch of non-firearms related travel weirdness in the past few months. in ATL they panicked because they saw un UNLOCKED Pelican AIR and thought it was firearms and sent it to TSA, took them an hour to figure out how to get in touch with me while I'm ripping my hair out trying to source replacement parts for what I thought was a lost case of critical parts. Definitely have to update "corporate policy" now lol
The weirdest experience I've had was when the counter agent checked me in as "special." "Special" is the designation for a LEO who is carrying a loaded concealed weapon. The kid at the gate saw "Sherrif's Department" on my CCW, which was on the flip side of the ID holder with my license, and thought I was a deputy. When I got to the gate, I got called up along with another "passenger" because the captain wanted the two armed passengers to get a look at each other. The other passenger started demanding to know what agency I was with, and I was baffled. The dude was a Federal Air Marshal, and he completely blew his cover by being a hothead. Just before I boarded, I gave him a nod, and he never got on the plane.
Congratulations you made my jaw drop. They inspected the luggage with the gun and don’t lock it back up when they send it out. They have one job in this scenario right to insure the gun is secure? They literally made everything less secure while screwing with your stuff.
Don't worry, they did deep psychological evaluations of everyone that would be near that luggage after they cut the locks and sent it back out into the airport.
I have a feeling this incompetence is laced with malice. They're hoping for an incident to use as an excuse to ban firearms travel altogether.
Employee at LAX on arrival wanted my key to open it. I said NOPE the key doesn't leave my possession...that's what the regulations say. Well that's not how we do it here...I've never done it that way. Well sorry sir, THAT'S the regulations. If I hand over the key that also transfers liability...what happens if that bag is opened and there's a firearm or property missing...do YOU want to deal with that??? I'll get my manager sir. OK great
At Seattle-Tacoma International, there's a dedicated TSA gun check station. It's been there almost as long as the TSA itself. They open the case and do their inspection. Then the owner locks the case, and it goes on the belt.
Yeah at OIA i do this all the time prescreen they put it on their luggage belt and i go on my way. Are these airports not equipped like the major airports
You would think all airports would be this way and they should be this way.
@@JAutry Even large-ish airports like Spokane and Tucson aren't big enough to have a dedicated firearms section given how few people travel with firearms. Instead, they use the same room for firearms as they do for over-sized luggage.
Go to a small airport and they're definitely not going to have a firearms station. Some of these airports don't even have on-site police.
Where I live (not the US) you check guns at airport police and you get it at airport police (same if you are from abroad) on the other side nobody would cut a lock they will land in an African jail..if they do
thank you for not only sharing your knowledge, but doing so in such a thoughtful and concise manner. I've seen so many of your talks and workshops, and I wish more people had your talent for communication, especially in the corporate world and schools. people like you make all of us better.
I like how you made sure to clock the door code as the guy in the orange was leaving with the new lock.
It's not like you can't just jump straight to the ground from the ramp there. That lock is just to keep little kids in place, and honest people honest.
I only traveled with a firearm once and it was when I brought my hunting rifle from my parents' home to the state I had moved to. Luckily the airport staff was on the ball and I didn't have any issues with it. I'm honestly blown away by how incompetent these people are with you. You even told them what they needed to do, repeatedly, and they still fucked it up.
I did once however have the TSA open my case thinking there was a firearm inside, because there was a camera tripod in there that I was traveling with to do videography at my sister's wedding. I guess they thought it looked like a rifle or something on their scanner. When they put the tripod back in the case, they snapped the foot off the bottom. This is a high end tripod mind, and the plastic they broke is PA6, the stuff they use on Makita drills and can take a 10 foot drop off a ladder. You'd almost have to be trying to break it to get it to do that. I got a nice little piece of paper saying they had entered my case. No mention of the broken tripod though. Wasn't enough money to be worth my time, so to this day, I use that tripod with the missing foot and have to adjust the one leg a little longer, because TSA.
So. They broke it intentionally.
I once flew with a bass guitar in an unlocked hard case from Houston. I walked up to the check-in counter, the agent looked at my hard case and said, "That isn't what I think it is, is it?" and I said, "A guitar?" and he said "Oh, OK, nevermind." They didn't even bother to check
I used to have a metal-suitcase that on arrival almost always got diverted with special cargo(es) then kicked out ahead of the other luggage when security sees that it doesn't need special attention; or I would be paged to head over to a secure pickup area to claim it.
-Or- that was until someone shot it between Ft.Lauderdale and Toronto ... and I had to make my way to the departure terminal to collect it from a crowd of police officers instead of one of the normal secure areas in the same arrival terminal.
_Until just now_ , it hadn't occurred to me that it was *more likely* an accidental discharge in the secure area; And not some jackass deliberately testing the "stainless" mark's boast that it "can stop a bullet". (it didn't).
edit, 12h later: Sorry, the slogan was "It can even _catch_ a bullet!" ... I think.
@@CrizzyEyes True champions of justice!
I flew with my Henry in a case on a hunting trip, and when i got to my destination my locks were cut, and my $2000 scope was missing off my rifle
Commented before a full watch:
Recently when flying with my AR I was taken back to the XRay machine by an attendant. TSA locks secured my Plano case along with integrated case locks and they didn't even bat an eye at the case.
I even got to look at the screen to see what it looked like under the XRay!
American Airlines in Detroit was the best first experience flying with firearms I could have asked for.
I love this, the TSA gives nothing but grief and hacking the Pelican latches is f'ing genius. As someone who also travels with firearms I know only too well the policy and compliance issues that go with it. Obviously if you're lucky enough to be able to fly private/charter that's the best way to avoid headaches but any time I go thru TSA in the future I'm definitely going to use a lot of this advice. Thanks!
I travel regularly with guns and the only place I have problems is in New York City. TSA always wants the key and I refuse them. This leads them to call the Port Authority Police who then tells them they have no business handling the guns and if they open it the cop will lock up the TSA agent.
As far as I can tell, TSA in NYC is geared specifically to scare away gun owners. I've seen a few stories where they tried to lock people up who were just waiting on their next flight, or whatever.
Wrong, TSA always inspects the firearm case in your presence and then locks the case and hands the key back to you
Is this an effort to make it so difficult to exercise any rights, not just the 2nd Amendment, so that you self-censor yourself and lose them?
@nathanc.4862 Affirmative: The owner has to be present for them to open the case. They can not keep the key.
They want to inspect it without the owner present because TSA is following ATF guideline to record every serial number of every firearm along with the owners information they come across. Same as police departments across the US are told to run the serial number and the person every time they come into contact with someone and a firearm. Illegally or legally possessed. Some state/local PD comply and others don’t. This is the ATF building and maintaining a data base of guns and owners. Illegal but still being done
You have the absolute best guide to traveling with firearms that I've ever read. Rules involving firearms are important and following those rules keeps you out of any misunderstandings. This is a great enhancement to that guide.
Sadly, this experience needs more consistency from airport to airport. Rules are fine, but consistency is as important as following them. Hopefully things can improve, but it may take an act of congress (I know, I know, Roll eyes).
Nice recommendation on the 83/45 Abus. I like that they have a large variety of cylinders (including Bowley Rotasera). Replaceable shackles are a bonus.
Nanuk is another Pelican-esque case brand. I don't know if their locking latches are key-retaining either. Neat that it's an issue that can be fixed.
Thanks so much for appreciating my work on this topic. And yeah Nanuk are another pretty quality option, as are Hardigg and a few others. I remember I reviewed an Explorer Case product for The Firearm Blog a while back, that was decent, too. (But a bit heavy because it's built like an absolute tank)
The Nanuk TSA powerclaw latches I have do not retain the key in the unlocked position. And unfortunately, when I tried opening them with the key in the lock, the latch couldn't lift far enough to disengage with the lid. If that problem can be resolved, the lock itself can be modded in a similar way, blocking the wafer channels in the unlocked position.
I remember reading up on the legal implementation of the TSA. Many airports had privately contracted security teams already, and so there was a clause that said that if you [an airport] can prove that you can an equal or better quality job then you can fill out a form to get a TSA exemption. I might argue that no security at all does an equal or better job than TSA, and for a fraction of the cost! lol
Yes. There are still two airports that I regularly fly through which have private security. San Francisco is the big one that everyone knows about. South Dakota has the other.
@@DeviantOllamis that Sioux Falls or Rapid City?
seeing what the TSA just fails to do. A drunk from the streets could do a better job
@@GameCyborgChIm not a big fan of TSA but in all fairness I don’t feel its fair to make the slam on the whole organization. Most of the disruptions in procedure and various stupid ways they conduct business is directed down to the workers from a DEI hire inexperienced supervisor’s having the authority to make policy that never started from the base and worked themselves up through merit.
@@natural-born_pilotthe TSA is security theatre that hires the incompetent and the useless
Terrorists caught by TSA = 0. TSA apprehended for crimes = 2000+. 2+2=6?
TSA would say there are 5 lights when there are clearly only 4 lights.
plenty of nutcases get caught by tsa all the time. that's a bit of an exaggeration
@@AR15andGOD Terrorists caught by TSA = 0. TSA apprehended for crimes = 2000+. 2+2=6? No, factual.
@@AR15andGOD nope
@@AR15andGOD just google "tsa effectiveness study"
This is a great video on travelling with guns but I think it's also important to point out that traveling with guns can be a great way to protect other equipment. I travel a lot with photography equipment so the investment of a $150 to get a cheap starter pistol allows you to put your own locks on the case and makes my photo equipment far less likely to walk away when going through security. Unfortunately I learned this after a camera body disappeared going through TSA checkpoints.
There's an old video (might be from a conference talk) from Deviant about this exact thing, there he mentions it doesn't even have to be a full gun. a receiver is enough and if the people at check in start any fuss about it "not being a gun", that talk had the magic words which I don't remember to remind them that receiver indeed is the gun as far as the law is concerned.
@@EeroafHeurlin exactly. Anything that the ATF defines as a firearm.
Thanks. I'll have to find that video
@@EeroafHeurlinea, I remember that video too. I think it was a computer conference
My camera equipment is always my carry-on! With any meds and one change of socks and underwear😆
Ive got a fraternity brither that was a Captain in 82nd Aitborne and they were deploying to Iraq early in DS2. They had full combat loads leaving the US. Full auto rifles, combat knives, and grenades. The TSA confinscated his nail clippers.
wow, saw your vid on modding a mortar case for traveling with firearms (I'm a 0341). Your tip about keeping a copy of TSA and airline policy with me saved my butt - ticket agent wanted me to give her the key ('they do it all the time') . Stood firm with the policies in hand and she got everything handled in 10 min b4 I went to the gate . Good to run across your channel again.
Only you can hold the key, never ever give them a key.
Bring a printout of the CFR
I was under the impression TSA rules state that a firearm case must be fastened with a lock that ONLY you have a key for, and not even TSA should have that key.
Correct, it's law. Only YOU can possess the key or combination to your bag locks. Carry a copy of the regs and show it to the first person who checks you in.
@@stephengough8546 I wonder how that law applies to biometric locks.
@@robonator2945 I would say that a biometric lock is really in itself the very definition of the rule.
@@stephengough8546 valid point. Counter point, it's the government; they don't give a shit about consistency or definitions.
Yes you as the owner of that firearm are the only person who is authorized to hold a key and at no time shall that key be removed from your possession or control if you do not have a key and padlock a C-TPAT approved wire lead seal may be used
Everyone that handles that "box" should be held accountable
Your patience while dealing with that airline and their unwillingness or inability to communicate is astounding, because at that point I would be giving them a five minute ultimatum that could end with a firearm being reported stolen.
that was my thought, call the cops and report a stolen firearm
@@SoloRenegade Technically, it's conversion, because you handed it to them on purpose then they kept it without continued permission.
Realistically, you're never going to get a charge to stick, because they were trying (poorly) to do their lawful ("lawful") job. And theft or conversion generally requires actual intent to keep the object.
I think you're more likely to get a vandalism charge to stick, since somewhere between the airline and TSA, they knowingly destroyed a lock. But it's still a stretch, since no one person committed the entire act of vandalism.
The ticketing agent negligently failed to report the situation to TSA, but didn't intend for the lock to get cut. And the baggage TSO made an attempt to contact the passenger, but was probably told to just get it done since they were holding the flight up at that point.
Someone should definitely have to pay for the new lock (likely the airline in this case), but unless a simple claims form works, it's likely far more trouble than it's worth actually suing them.
@@GeekOfAllness you totally missed the point. we're not even talking about teh same things
@@GeekOfAllness Don’t sue, take it to small claims court.
@@ethanlamoureux5306 Small claims court IS suing. And there's no small claims court in federal law, so you'd have to sue under state law for that to work. Not sure it does.
Pilot: "We'll hold [the plane] for ya." Wow, lucky guy; I've never heard of anyone getting that kind of personal service based on _their_ want before! Nice guy! Maybe out of policy, but cool!
I wonder if he flies enough to have some extra-special frequent flier privileges...
@@matthewmiller6068: Haha, that would be interesting, all right.
Honestly seems like the pilot just understood that airport staff and tsa fucked up and wanted to extend some courtesy to the dude. It's kinda like how I don't leave the shop with my flatbed until everything that's supposed to be there, is there
@@hf117j: Yeah, and if so, then that's good of them... the "adult/mature" thing to do. I just didn't even really know they could do that. In most cases I would think they wouldn't dare. So this is cool.
That's not being nice, it's law. A passenger can not leave the aircraft after boarding and the plane just takeoff. A plane can also not takeoff with a person's luggage and the person not on the aircraft. It's a terrorism thing.
Another infuriating thing. TSA themselves state thay "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock...." yet they just cut the lock if you have a non-TSA lock, and if its a TSA lock, any number of people will have the key
It's federal law..... Not per TSA...... Only you can have the key or combination in your possession
@@waynehummer9495 it's federal law, yes, but TSA claims that too
The best thing you can do in the event that your luggage is tampered with in ANY way os to threaten the airline with a call to the ATF. NOBODY wants to deal with the ATF, especially TSA and airline companies. If your lock has been cut and/or replaced, or if they cant find your case, are holding it hostage, etc... tell the airline youre calling the ATF, i promise they will get you your case amd all contents within ASAP.
It'll work, but there's a good chance you'll be on both groups' crap list after that. However, the ATF IS the responsible authority for transport of firearms across state lines, not the TSA.
A suggestion: if the airline insists on putting it through normal baggage, go to the TSA checkpoint and ask for a supervisor. Explain your problem to the supervisor: that the airline put your firearm through the regular baggage area and that you have the key on your person. The supervisor can just radio over to the baggage TSO and figure the problem out from there.
I would suggest asking for the supervisor right when they check your ID. If they're able to just run your key to baggage while you get screened, then meet you on the sterile side of the screening area, that's nicer. But there's a decent chance you'll have to walk out to the front counter to hand the baggage TSO your key directly, and there's no reason to go through passenger screening twice.
There are stupid people everywhere, but talking to TSA directly is much more likely to succeed than dealing with the airline if their guy is that incompetent. Also, your airline should have the TSA managers on speed dial. If a supervisor can't get hold of TSA, there's a problem.
Well stated. Airline screwed up, not TSA.
TSA still screws up - hence the pelican "fixed" locking latches. But yes, I'd raise a hell of a fuss the moment an airliner indicates they can't reach TSA if I had firearms that were not able to be accounted for, or worse, TSA calls me and wants the key but the airline personnel won't assist.
I agree with all that you said
Man, thank you. I left LAX for BWI, and my handgun in my locked case got shipped to Miami. The airline said I would have the bag within 3 days. I told them I had to report, per state law, any missing or stolen firearms within 24 hours, and they really did not want this to become a newsworthy issue. I had the locked bag in my hands within 8 hours, delivered to my house. Now I double check my luggage tags when they are checked. And now I know what else to do to prevent issues. Again, thank you.
I had a counter agent in Colorado Springs freak out so bad and hyperventilate when I told her I had a "special Item" in my luggage. I had to talk her down and I had pre-printed the FAA rules and the airline rules pages and gave them to her.
I live in AZ and that’s the exact reason I don’t open carry.
@@baliktad8WTF does that have to do with it?
The fact that TSA is hard to contact reminds me of "Security through obscurity". Security for TSA, not TSA adding security. :-)
TSA is completely worthless. I carry tools with me (because I an a traveling technician). Sir this screwdriver is 2 inches too long or what was the other thing they took from me.... an adjustable wrench or something? Yea these nitwits don't understand anything.
@@OramiIT They stole my pliers, because apparently I was going to unbolt the seat.
yup you have to have nothing longer then 7.25 any longer and no go. it is a rule. follow it or check it bro. why do you get to bend the rule. because you are a technician. who is the nit-wit. just using your words buddy.@@OramiIT
If I have a screwdriver that is 2 inches shorter somehow that is allowed. From a weapon standpoint it’s still deadly. They aren’t protecting anyone. Same thing with water or a sealed beverage. What are they actually stopping? What are they preventing? TSA is a waste of resources just more government bloating.
from the experiences that friends I have that have flown as armed LEO's, civilians traveling with firearms and one former Air Marshal, the entire TSA operationally from top to bottom has been a cluster from the very start.
Got in a debate with @activeselfprotection about the fact that this happens at all, let alone frequently. It's frustrating how often government agencies blatantly break laws and violate thier own regs with no consequences.
They'd have to know their own rules and laws to even have hope of following them.
They gave a bunch of people paid probably 2 dollars an hour over minimum wage a 300 page manual of what they're supposed to do, they read it once and probably remembered it just long enough to answer a multiple choice quiz and then instantly forgot everything about it.
@@bytoadynolastname6149 It's more comprehensive than that. There's a 1-week basic course followed by a few weeks of supervised OJT. Then a 2-week advanced course followed by a few more weeks of OJT. Baggage TSOs then go through yet another course followed by more OJT.
And there is quite a lot of oversight. Any significant deviation from policy causes the TSO to be de-certified on that system and requires minor re-training to be re-certified.
There is a lot of incompetence at all levels of TSA that really shouldn't exist. And the fact that TSA has zero constitutional authority to do what the state governments should be handling is troubling. In this case, though, it's not TSA's fault (other than for existing).
This case seems to be entirely on the airlines, who have no excuse for this incompetence. Even if you removed TSA, we'd just go back to local security (like we had before TSA) and the airline would do the same dumb stuff.
@@GeekOfAllness "De-certified", only if the people in charge bother to care, which they frequently don't.
@@dracobengali :
Of course, there's also the possibility that the supervisor "had a 'senior moment' "????
Or, perhaps the junior officer is a "favorite"/"pet" of the supervisor????
It seems like an incredible security concern that staff can't reach TSA and vice versa, communication is one of the most important parts of safety...
That would be because TSA is useless, and everybody knows it, including the TSA.
It would be a concern if the TSA was actually beneficial to safety...
TSA aren't mean for actual security. They're there to be a visible response to public fear and nothing else.
They can, they're just too incompetent to know how to chance channel. Airports use a DMR network for radios, there's something called talk groups where they can switch to different channels (Ground crew, TSA, Boarding etc). U literally just have to change a little dial ontop of the radio.
No shit
It's just astounding to me how an entire airport can't get ahold of the tsa. It's like the airline doesn't even know that they exist despite them being part of the security and they share a building and a common goal (getting people's bags on the plane) it just makes no sense as to how they have absolutely no communication between each other.
When I flew my guns from one state to the other(from my Dad's house to where I currently live) I had a really funny /sad thing happen. I checked my locked case, which had one rifle and one pistol and all was fine. I got on my flight and my luggage made it to my destination but my gun case did not. There was no connection to miss..it was direct with no layover, baggage change. I also checked in WAY early, like over 2 hours early so there was no chance that my case couldn't make it. LIke I said..my bags made it, my gun case did not. So I report this to baggage desk and then leave my information. Then I call back later that day, then the next and no movement or no one can seem to tell me where they are. So, one of my best friends and my neighbor down the street was a federal conservation officer and he knows everyone in that state's law enforcement community..whether local or federal. So I call him and tell him what's going on...and he sayd "I'm gonna call my buddy at the local FBI field office and he also handles a lot of federal cases(smuggling, etc) at the airport and knows his way around. "Great I say". ONE HOUR LATER...I get a call from the airline and they *magically* found my guns and they'll have them delivered lickety split to my house, sir! Pretty fucking sad. Imagine if I wasn't lucky enough to have friends who were federal law enforcement with some juice on my side?!?! The fucking TSA is a disgrace. Apparently the TSA had it set aside for "inspection", but what that agent and my buddy told me is they will "on purpose" lose gun cases or set them aside for later "inspection" and if no one makes too much of a fuss for too long or they don't get some sort of call like they got, then they'll just try to steal it.
same thing happens with electronics - Kiro7 Seattle did a sting with a Seatac TSA agent that stole a bait iPad, tracked it to their house, brought cameras, asked them if they took an iPad from Baggage, and after they denied it, they triggered the alarm. It was easily heard on the cameras as the dumbass thief had it stashed in his coat closet right next to the door.
Who could have guessed that if you set up a federal agency that can do whatever they want with no oversight or consequences if they screw up, they will quickly be worse than useless.
Cool.. except that it violates federal law to deliver guns without a FFL. The airlines going point to point is a special exemption. Fed ex etc refuse to deliver firearms for just this reason.
@@gbear1005 Good to know. For clarification they did not actually deliver the guns to my house, I went and got them. I said "No..I'll come get them". Probably the airline person calling me didn't know that yet.
@@gbear1005 that's entirely bullshit. You have to have an FFL to sell a firearm to someone. Transporting someone's own firearms to them is perfectly fine.
I had TSA try tell me i was responsible for my lock breaking thier bolt cutters, and a piece of the broken cutters cutting a person. All they had to do was ask for the key. Small scratches on the shackle and case. I wish i could remember who made those locks & case, or i would pay the make. This was back in 2008.
Yeah I'd love to know what locks you were using 👍
Why didn't you use TSA locks?
@@jebediahkerman8245 because you sign a declaration stating you're the only one with the key or combo to the lock on the case. By using a TSA lock, you're not in compliance with what you've signed.
1974, my mom flew back to DC from Dallas with a new in the factory box Winchester model 94 rifle. It went in the overhead rack. Not one problem.
best option call the BATFE and report a break in of your secure case and missing firearm. this can close an airport quickly and get the TSA to have to show the video of them breaking into your property. this is a very bad experience with all airlines regularly you are one of the lucky ones Ollam, and of course we have the police to lazy to do there jobs.
Sounds like a pretty high-impact solution... granted, I could see how that would have the desired end-effect of getting people trained to not do the stupid things they're currently doing, but... at great cost (and I don't mean financial, though probably a bit of that, too) to many people (and I don't mean the airlines or TSA)... so... is it worth it???
You know that old adage that goes like "calling the cops rarely helps most situations" well that goes double for the ATF. Seriously, have as little contact with them as possible. Do not make it a habit to call them on other's, they are a nightmare agency and will likely make your life difficult too, that's IF they care at all in the first place.
@@dark2023-1lovesoni Nobody's saying it won't be a wretched experience, but it will certainly put the wind up the airport and encourage them to not have it happen again.
@@Kerbtree or the ATF may seize the weapon for an investigation and never return it. If it DID cause any big stir at the airport you could then easily wind up being charged for "criminal obstruction" or "false report of a felony", a conviction of either would cost you your gun rights.
The ATF and TSA are both government enforcement agencies and their personnel will likely feel more kinship with each other than you. I really think this sort of call would have a much higher chance of either going nowhere or working out badly for you.
Most likely what would actually happen is that the ATF will take a report over the phone and then tell you to wait a few days/weeks for them to get back to you. During which time they'll mostly just list the weapon's serial # as stolen and probably not do any serious investigation. They mostly just want a record so they can blame you if the gun shows up later at a crime scene. They exist to make sure citizens follow rules, they aren't there to hold another government agency accountable.
Making a false report to a federal agency is extremely unwise. Report the cut lock, don't falsely report a stolen gun.
We used those same locks for a LOT of uses when I was in the military, I've still got a bunch sitting around because they've been so good to me. They were almost exclusively what I used to secure my rifle.
What gets me is that it's obvious that they don't listen to anything which is being said to them.
I'd just like to take this moment to consider the fact that these are the same people whom we are trusting with our lives 😳
I know, right? So many civilians running around with guns scare me, too.
The only ones trusting them with their lives are FOOLS.
@@jakurdadov6375 this dude thinks “military” = “shoots firearm more than once a year to maintain proficiency” lol
No I thought the airport the only people you're trusting with your lives are the pilots, TSA is the fallback plan. And if you notice in this video the pilots seem to be the only ones that have a brain
@@the_undead the pilots are the only ones at an airport that had years of training
It reminds me of every company i've worked for. the wrong people put in charge and terrible communication at every stage.
I loved that you used the baggage inspection notice to mix the JB Quick.
So it seems like a possible solution might be to speak with TSA at security and ask THEM to radio whoever is looking at the bags rather than trying to get the airport staff to do it. What is strange is I bet the airport staff have communication capability with TSA if there is an incident, but they probably failed to have general contact information.
"So the TSA knows that people are right there on the other side of the wall."
Of course they know that; the case didn't get loaded onto that belt by itself.
When my grandmother died, my aunt, uncle, and 3 cousins flew from California to Pennsylvania… and the airline lost everyone’s luggage, full of dress clothes for viewings/services/ etc.
Took months to get them back - one at a time.
sounds like the airline and not TSA
"if a nefarious person cut the locks off... if the TSA cut the locks off"... but you repeat yourself.
As a content consumer, I love videos like this. You learn so much more when people rant from events they've experienced. This really shows how much customers struggle even when following their own procedures. The best way to counteract the scenarios is being prepared in advance.
Next video
Deviant shows how the case was left un-latched because the agent or agents removed their key with the latch in the open, locked position and therefore we’re unable to properly close and lock the case.
Alternately, the case will show up with the key or broken key stuck in the lock, probably taped shut with stuff sticking out.
I would just engrave "TSA: STOP FUCKING BREAKING MY LOCKS- CALL THIS NUMBER"
because it sounds like an internal communication gap.
When I flew out of BDL moving across country I had my cats and my guns coming along. It surprisingly went smoothly bar my cat puking on the connecting flight.
I wrote my name, email, phone on every side of my gun case with a paint pen. I wanted no ambiguity as to whose that was and who to call if there was an issue. The cat bags also I had made patches with names/emails even though we had them in the cabin
Sounds like they're a bunch of incompetent retards who don't know the law.
He did as he got a call from TSA David.
@@J.Young808 he needs an unbroken line of communication to the mook with a grinder
im suprised they couldnt reach each other on radio i thought it would be an important safetyish thing
A buddy of mine and I flew to Montana with our rifles, my case arrived unmolested, my friends was opened, his magazines and ACOG were gone along with the locks. The TSA claims his case popped open, a report was filed with the police and nothing came of it.
At least the TSA agent only stole his magazine and ACOG. Agent coulda decided he needed a new rifle too.
I had zero trouble traveling out of AUS for Desert Brutality 2022 with my AUG and M9 in the box. I flew American. The check-in staff knew to let me take the bag over to the special screening area (that was right next to their desk). Those TSA guys stuck it in the machine, verified the locks then thew it on their own belt. Everybody that morning seemed to know what to do. Bags made it fine, and I also had no issues on the way back, beyond the fact it took forever to bring it to the special baggage pickup area after we landed.
the competence you experienced at ONE site, does not invalidate the INCOMPETENCE displayed at other sites.
@@stevevernon1978 this is the EXACT same airport and TSA team as in Dev's escapade. I lucked out with my airline and TSA crew that early morning. It's possible to not get hassled there.
I once flew out of Huston tx on United. i filled out the orange paper and they took it on the regular belt. Then when I got on the plane a stewardess came over to me and whispered in my ear.. sir, do you still have your gun on your person? I'm like no I wish I did but no I checked it. totally clueless.. Flying out of Newark NJ regularly I have no issue, they walk me to the TSA room, they scan it and and say ty and I'm on my way...
It's not just firearms. I was flying out of Norfolk with an EO-TECH, and a magnifier in my carry-on. I got pulled out of the TSA checkpoint, stuffed in a plexiglass gerbil cage.
I was told that I couldn't have them in my carry-on because they were "firearm parts." A TSA supervisor said that anything that could mounted to a firearm is a firearm part. I calmly and politely remonstrated with him that a flashlight could could be mounted to a firearm, and they didn't seem have a problem with that.
He replied that that was different. Then he suggested that I could just leave $900 in optics in the friggin "lost & found," "as a personal favor" to me, and I could reclaim them when I came back in two weeks.
Now, we all know they would have been in his car 5 minutes after I got on the airplane, and two weeks later, they would have no idea where they were.
I'll admit, I got a little belligerent at that point. Two airport police officers were summoned. Short version, I missed my flight, had to book another one, check my bag, and wait around for 3 more hours until my new flight.
While I was waiting, the TSA dickhead came up to me like we were best pals, and asked, "Oh, hey, did everything work out ok?"
I told him to the fuck away from me, before I broke his goddamn jaw. And he scurried off.
Yep, bad enough that they are incompetant, but, then, they are, also, thieves.
More thefts committed by TSA employees than total number of hijackers caught (zero, zilch, nada, 0)
Dev, Thank you so much for this video. Your pain is my gain. I travel with Firearms and so far, have not had that issue except once and it was my own stupidity. I was waiting for my bag at the regular carousel instead of the special area that you mentioned.
Rage inducing bureaucracy - & lack of any sort of common sense or joined up thinking. 🤬
...that is why "common sense" is a fallacy not a good argument...
He's with a pronoun, what do you think they vote for.
Bless you for this video, I’m sorry for your ‘TSA’ experience. I recently retired and bought some good gun cases for vehicular gun security with the possibility of airline flight. Now I know what sacrificial padlock to offer up to the tender mercies of the Guv’mint. I feel safer already.
People need to start being fined when they mess this kind of thing up.
I suggest with those key retaining latches that you put some kind of notice either on or next to or above/below the latch that indicates it is key retaining so they don't potentially break the latch trying to get their key out.
Insert joke about some TSA not being able to read.
Former airline GSC (15 years ago…) and when you said the airline employee wanted to see your firearm is when I started paying active attention.
So now not even 3 minutes in, here’s how it used to be done, in California. Passenger comes to check in and declares they are carrying a firearm. We had them the form to fill out that goes in their locked, hard sided case and explain that the local clearance is done downstairs (TSA had a special screening machine for this in the terminal we were in, this varied by airport back then, but we liked it because it meant our passenger got immediate clearance and we never had to track them down because the gun was loaded - it was caught while the passenger was there, and our TSA were pretty relaxed about it), we escorted them carrying it to the TSA, they scanned it and either cleared it then and there or took the bag and passenger into a separate room for further inspection (always if the gun was loaded or they saw more than the allowed amount of ammo, 5% of the time randomly).
Your story is horrifying me already.
Would love to see a video about crosskeying locks to your homes keyway, as I'm currently carrying around a warden-esque keyring and would love to downsize on it by unifying some locks bitting!
Holy crap, watching the airline / TSA incompetent made me twitch.
Thank you for enduring that to make it easier on everyone else. I'm curious if those modified latches will allow re-locking without being latched though, as if that is the case, you can very likely expect to have your luggage locked, but un-latched. It's probably a good idea to put a couple of your spare padlocks inside each case regardless, with a note that says to use them if needed.
Once I modify the latches, no, they cannot be re-closed if the key is in the locked position.
@@DeviantOllam What I mean to say is that you will receive a case with the latches unlatched, but locked, so that the inspector gets their key back, but still leaves you screwed over... As that is their reason for getting out of bed in the morning.
@@buckstarchaser2376 they can't send the case if the latches aren't closed though
@@DeviantOllam: Packing tape. I can easily imagine them deciding there is something wrong with the latches, and simply taping the case shut.
Like most things in this realm of incompetency things won't change until people start going to jail. All of these issues can be fixed by the administration C-Suite level people in charge of these companies starting to care enough to start making policy changes to fix these issues.
On my way to TX for a competition, with my competition rifle legally checked in, TSA messed with my optics beyond quick repair. I ended up withdrawing from competition. Did I get any compensation? Hell no! If I see a TSA agent catch fire and burn in the desert I wouldn’t piss on him to put it out.
Yeah, bad enough you get your lock cut off but if they (TSA) are dumb enough to not know how to open a lock, imagine the damage they could do when handling your firearm.
This only shows the sheer ineptitude of the TSA, and airlines. I know this is supposed to just inform people, but this shows the stupidity that's supposed to "protect" us. And the level of...ineptitude is truly aggravating.