A WHOLE SEASON OF NON QUALIFICATIONS! The Story of EuroBrun (1988-1990)
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- Опубликовано: 25 фев 2024
- At the turn of the 90s, there seemed to be a massive run of have-a-go heroes from Italy that decided to enter the big bad world of Formula One, with none of them lasting longer than a few years. Money is usually the big factor, with none of them able to capitalise on a fluke result or one of the bigger teams coming in for an over-performing driver.
Some of these teams were deluded to think they could get results on a budget not much higher than zero. Some of them had hearts in the right places and some tried to use past experience to get somewhere, which is what EuroBrun tried to do: the teaming up of a privateer sports car team and a open wheel ladder team.
So what happened? Let's have a look.
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According to Moreno, by the end of 1990 the team were actively trying not to even prequalify just to save money and the only reason they didn't quit sooner was because the FIA would have fined them for not completing the season. By seasons end, Walter basically worked out that any fines would have been cheaper than taking the cars all the way to Japan and Australia and just said "sod it, I'm off down the pub"
Feel bad for him
These stories about the backmarkers are as sad as they are fascinating. Especially the ones who went there and _tried_ to at least get into a race. It's hard to know whether to feel sorry for them or exasperated that they stayed too long.
Unlike the bots, I genuinely appreciate your time and effort with regards to these videos. They usually take me back with good memories, although some are sad. Either way, the stories are there to be told, so thank you :)
Every time Aidan says just "Roberto", I imagine the whole audience going "say the line!!"
And then rejoicing when he says "Moreno", like the Bart Simpson meme
Thing is, when it’s all you hear about you do feel like Bart in that scene.
@@AidanMillward can totally understand you, I surely would have grown tired of that sort of meme over time as well. Especially if it continues over months and years
@@DerGeraet205 it’s why I canned the senna was pissed thing immediately. Just got run in to the ground.
@@AidanMillwardtbf Senna did get pissed off a lot.
@@hippyjason yeah I agree to be fair.... "MORENO, Moreno, MORENO, Moreno, MORENO, Moreno, MORENO, Moreno, MORENO, Moreno, only 2.4k more folk before we get the motherlode.... 😁😁😁
It’s a dead cert that one of the likes for this video is from Edd Straw. He lives for tales of the pre-qualifying days.
Back in the late 90s our next door Neighbour owned that Jäger Eurobrun. Except he’d stuck a V8 Judd in the back of it. So at least it had a decent engine in it at one point in its life 😂
I always love hearing about the back of the grid guys, I'm absolutely that guy who'd have EuroBrun/Simtek/Life merch tucked away somewhere. I blame being an Orient/Zack Ryder fan...
One thing I really feel that gets overlooked with these 'awful' F1 teams is that they were pretty much all front running, competent teams from lower formulas. The barrier has always been having the infrastructure and facilities to build a car from scratch as, even back to the 1970s, the front of the grid was mostly made up of legacy teams from the 1960s, and those 1960s legacy teams rolled on to the 2000s and to present in some form. If decent customer cars had been available in the 1980s these teams could have been near the front.
It often wasn't chancers try to get in on a shoestring, it was people trying to break in to a tier of the sport where the goalposts were being moved closer and closer together. There is too much of a focus on hard results and too little on how hard it is to build an F1 car from scratch.
AGS was pretty incredible - it was run out of Gas Station in rural France for most of it's early existence, and it's cars were quite solid for being run on a literal shoestring. I actually saw the 1988 JH23 being demonstrated in Person at Suzuka in 2018. Nice to see.
The 26 car rule was introduced after the 1973 British Grand Prix when a first lap crash took out nearly half the field.
It was first standardized at 24 for 1979 before getting increased into 26 for 1982
Was that start that included the highest G force crash that a person survived before Brack infamous crash in the 2003
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 no this crash happened at the end of the first lap when Jody Scheckter spun and collected at least 10 other cars. It's on RUclips if you want to watch it.
@@joelapilainen there were grids of 26 cars between 79 and 82 as well.
Edit: Correction, no there weren't. My mistake 🤣
13:33 all stand for the absolute legend that is Pierluigi Martini
H-How in the world did he get P2 in a Minardi?!
@@sgt.thompson98 Minardi was actually one of the better smaller teams then and Pirelli had special wonder tyres for qualifying that Goodyear weren't expecting
Add to the fact they only had one real qualifying session = Profit for Pirelli!
Roses are red, Planes fly, Eurobrun Did not Pre-qualify.
I've been re-watching a lot of 90s IndyCar & CART recently 🏁🏎. I might be the only one here that thinks of Roberto Moreno as a Champ Car driver 😅 . . and actually a highly respectable one 🫡.
I had heard of the Roberto Moreno video thing on this channel, but it always seemed so far away ⏳. Not so much now though! 😮. The video could well be close to completion because the 100k is definitely going to happen. As another comment mentioned, . . excellent channel growth! 📈👏.
Former 1970s F1 driver and later multi Bathurst 1000 champion Larry Perkins told ABC (Australia) commentator Will Hagon (who mentioned the conversation during his call of the 1991 Sandown 500) that the same people he knew in Formula One who were buggerising around wasting theirs and other people's money during the 70s ... were largely the same people, just with different back of the grid teams, who were still doing it into the early-mid 90s.
*cough* Günther Schmid *cough*
@@Mishima505 ... please, keep it Rial 😁
Hi Aidan thanks for the posts you know your stuff and you know how to reserch I have been following F1 a LONG time Jim Clark died on my 8th Birthday I was at a Autocross meeting watching a neighbour raceing his Lotus Cortina and they announced it over the tannoy ,,,,,wow I remember it like yesterday everything stop'd that day , Jim Clark what a Racer ,,,,,like Joey Dunlop I remember that day too and of course Ayrton I remember that day ,,,,,but what a privilage to have watched those guys race , Keep doing the great work Aidan appreciate it man :-)
Thanks for your great and informative videos. I barely watch TV now thanks to you
I think the ER188 has some potential that was never realized. It was a solid machine early on, pace wise at least. Also, there were actually two machines on the grid with Euroracing roots in 1988, the ER188 and the Osella FA1L, which was derived the Euroracing designed, and very good, Alfa-Romeo 183T. It also used the Alfa V8 Turbo from that car, now badged as an Osella.
Euroracing also had a penchant for cars with red coloured wheels. Red on the Eurobrun for most of 1988, Red Faces with Yellow Barrells on the Alfa 185T/184T in 1985.
Earliest I've ever been to a story time video. Perfect for procrastinating a literature essay!
Awesome video, super interesting
One has to wonder if some of the back-marker teams just sand-bag their way for a few years and then sell the team at a huge profit. The fact that it is almost impossible to bring in a new team makes this concept viable.
Very insightful video
I haven’t even started watching it and I already favorited the video!
Gregor Foitek would end up at AJ Foyt Racing in 1992, driving in the Surfer's Paradise and Long Beach races. He was scheduled to drive at Indy, but quit after he decided ovals weren't his thing. Foitek was hired due to Foyt having broken his legs at Road America the year before, and needing a substitute to fill the seat until he was mended
Foytek
@@camillaquelladegliaggettiv4303why was this me lmao 😭🤣
Foyt had a Pierce Arrow coupe that ran at Bonneville.
@@camillaquelladegliaggettiv4303, A.J. Foyt is a distant relative of Gregor Foitek.
love learning about these old teams
The orange and black Jager car looks sweet! Never seen it before.
4:46 This ironically led to the downfall of the Shadow racing team. Due to how impressed the drivers were able to push the car past its limits(With Alan Jones even taking a win in Austria in 1977), it impressed hot teams, most notably Frank Williams, who took Alan Jones in 1978 and Clay Regazzoni in 1979, as well as both Colin Chapman and Jackie Oliver, who took Elio de Angelis in 1980 and Riccardo Patrese in 1978 respectively.
"WHICH IS LAST I CHECKED 1 POUND TWENTY, THIS COUNTRY IS FINISHED." lol
I remember Oscar Larrauri was a regular in IMSA GTP during the early 90s driving a Porsche 962.
There were 27 cars at the Nurburgring in 1985 - 3 Renaults. One being Hesnault who was testing the in car camera. Also the last time a team entered 3 cars. His was ineligible for points.
The time before that was Portugal the previous year when (you’ve guessed it) a third Renault was entered for Philippe Streiff.
@@Mishima505There was a rumor in 1993 that FOM and the FIA would allow any team to run three cars prior to the end of the 1993 season but it didn't come to pass and if it was allowed, McLaren would have fielded a third car for Michael Andretti to finish out the season after finishing on the podium at Monza cause originally at McLaren for 93 it was to have been Andretti alongside future world champion Mika Hakkinen but Senna stayed on in race by race basis early in the season and Hakkinen was the reserve driver. Senna was the biggest proponent for Andretti in his brief time in F1 and tried his best to help Michael adjust to F1, but Michael didn't help himself commuting to test sessions and race weekends from Nazareth, PA outside of Philadelphia to Europe, but his shortest commute was to Montreal for the Canadian GP
Finally! Someone other than me who is angered by the aggregious prices of a Greggs Sausage roll!
Mate the prices are ridiculous I remember when you could get a chicken bake and sausage roll for under 2 pounds
I would have room for an Tottenham cake as well
Now I’m furious shaking my hand at the sky lol
There were a couple of races in the 1980s where 27 cars were allowed to start, one was the 1986 Italian GP where the AGS made its debut, driven by Ivan Capelli.
Yes, Portugal that same year (next race.)
@@palm92 the only races that AGS entered so FOCA let them start as they would not seriously affect the outcome of the race.
@@Mishima505 Ah I didn't know that. Always thought it was odd.
I think in 1988, prequalifying wasn't a separate session, seem to be remember it was in one of the standard practice session all 31 went on track (the ones before the 2 qualifying sessions). May need to dig through old Autosport for this to be verified. Think then which of the slowest of those 5 were then eliminated.
Pre qually used to be on Friday morning with 8 cars from lowest place 4 teams from previous 8 races
Peter Windsor. Now that's a name I haven't heard in a while.
If any channel deserves 100k, yours does. I would say a million plus, but I'm selfish and I like when I can comment on a video and have a reasonable expectation that you might actually read it. Not because you've read it (that's cool, too), but because I'm sure you appreciate positive feedback.
And even better than positive feedback is constructive feedback. Unfortunately I don't have any to give you at the moment. Your videos strike such a great balance between interesting, informative, entertaining, and succinct. Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard anyone sum up a motorsport topic better than you. I mean this with the highest praise possible, because that is *not* an easy task. I usually get caught up in whatever story you're telling so much that I'm disappointed when it's over because I just want you to keep going.
Thank you so much!
My abiding memory of Oscar Larrauri is not from F1 but from IMSA where he somehow turned a Porsche Group C machine into a battering ram, and seriously pissed off Emmo as well. Shame, that Miller High Life gold scheme that Porsche had was beautiful. Still argue to this day you could slap any old sponsors on a 956 or 962 and it would just somehow worka
I remember Oscar and John Winter drove for Joest 962 right until the end of GTP.
After that things did not go or end well for John Winter sadly though, he was troubled to the very end
The Kings of DNPQ of 1989!!!
1989 was the season I really got into F1 properly. I had a Goodyear poster on my bedroom wall which had a breakdown of all the Goodyear teams’ cars and helmets. The Pirelli DNPQ teams held mythical status to me, because I never saw them on telly or in photos (I was limited to BBC Grand Prix and whatever magazines and books were at my local small-town WHSmiths). EuroBrun, Zakspeed, Coloni appeared in lists, but I didn’t even know what colours the cars were painted. Seems daft in the internet age with wall-to-wall TV coverage.
Argentinian Leaping Cow and Badger from "Dr Fegg's Encyclopedia of All World Knowledge". My apologies Aidan, your mention of "Argentine or Argentinian" brought this book to mind.
Its interesting teams back in the 1990s were wanting teams excluded for not being competitive enough and "taking up someones space" when there was no limit on how many teams there could be
Been watching your videos for years, and I've always been a little bit envious... Is that a full Marshall stack behind you? You look to have some nice guitars, too.
How do you play with that kind of volume? I used to have a twin reverb, and had to put an attenuator on it
How about a video on LMU Aidan? Downloaded it saturday, been having a blast.
I like to imagine Aidan's idea of hell is to be the MC at a Robert Moreno Man of the Century award dinner and he has no notes.
Honestly there are worse sponsors than conveyor belts on the grid right now. The kind of thing where you want to be associated with going fast, yeah that checks out.
Conveyor belt was more the driver lineup KEKW
I miss regional sponsors like Tommasini Belt Conveyor Group, who are still in business!
If you have already made one, my apologies, but a video about the bad crashes and injuries happening to 3 of the up and coming British drivers of the late 1980's, Brundle, Herbert and Donnelly, and the way that they fought back from that.
That car is orange and has a #33 on it, feel familiar...
SuperDry = best clothing quality out of any clothes ever worn.
Walti Brun is a legend. Unfortunately he tried this F1 episode but in Group C the team was the best private entry, beating even the works cars. Bit like Willi Kauhsen. 😅
At 12.15 look at how exposed the driver is in the cockpit
So many Bots in the comments man, its old youtube all over again
In a way, them commenting helps the algorithm so I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. 🤣
@@AidanMillwardthem commenting and people commenting about them. Might as well run with them
15:30 that car looks utterly terrifying actually. Just look at how much of the driver is exposed here! I'd never race such a car a higher speed than maybe 15 km/h.
2.5K left for Moreno...
Soon.
Something of note about who could’ve replaced Langes had he been released; two drivers were linked to that seat, Canadian Allen Berg (who raced in the dreadfully slow Osella in 1986) and Mark Blundell.
Money was the biggest problem of all those teams. Some rich yahoo or company decided to either buy or start an F1 team and thought that racing would only cost them that first investment and some salaries to run for a season, like in most other racing classes. What all of them didn't know, or didn't want to know, is that in F1 you had to keep spending massive amounts of money to further develop the cars during the season.
There's a Murray outtake : "...and the other four non qualifiers are the two Ligiers of Stefan Johansson and Rene Arnoux, Oscar Larrouri's EuroBrun and.....I can't remember the other one." I'm presuming the clip was from the 1988 San Marino GP, the 4th driver was Bernd Schneider's Zakspeed, and the lead in to Murray's faux Pas would have been talking about Nicola Larini being excluded.
Could you do a video on Rial and ATS in time? It could be more about Gunther Schmidt and you could call it Wheely Psycho or something like that as he was renowned for his temperament and falling out with staff and drivers left, right and centre. Just an idea.
Wow. I never knew how many F1 teams back then trying to qualify into the Grand Prix. Today its only 10 teams.
funny that many years later Moreno recalls that once Eurobrun found out he was about to be signed to replace Nannini, they try to use his contract to get money from a bigger team. Little did they know it was Flavio Briatore on the other side of the line
The bots are faster than haas will be this year
1:42 I feel that…
Roberto Moreno is the worlds greatest F1 diver
EuroBRUH
Jesus me the pornbots have beaten the firstbots
They’re less annoying than kids going “FiRsT!!!!!!”
It’s not 2006 anymore.
even in 2006 it was already annoying lol@@AidanMillward
Is there a Zakspeed video ?
Roberto Moreno moment
Never perfect but much better than the fiberals
12:00 that one actually looks the business. I know: book, cover, don’t judge. But it looks pretty. If you’re gonna pose, pose well. But, given the driver, it looks a bit scale 1:1.2. Still, pretty. I may just use it for a livery in gt7
One of the big reason for the huge influx of small teams - and drivers - from Italy in the 1980s was that the country was engaging in some extreme economic acrobatics, which made it look like there was a big "boom". Reality was, in fact, that it was mostly based on repeated devaluations of the national currency; The country was basically living well above its means, quite literally "printing money" when it was needed - and inflation nearly reached 20% at some point; As a matter of fact, we're still feckin' paying the consequences of this today 🙄
It's an oversimplification, but the byproduct of such economic "policy" was that there were quite a few companies and individuals which were momentarily awash with money, and they tried to use it either in an attempt to gain international visibility, or simply indulge some boyhood fantasy and Formula 1 was one of the preferred avenues; This was also the time period when Serie A attracted all of the biggest and highest paid foreign footballers in the world (Maradona, Platini, Gullit, Van Basten, Rummenigge...the list is endless).
And then there was the "other" thing - it's always been speculation, nothing was ever confirmed, but an international organization such as Formula 1 was a very good tool to "magically" make some rather shady money...become squeaky clean overnight.
Then it all dried up in the 1990s - the last of the "fake money playboys" being Andrea Sassetti and his infamous Andrea Moda in 1992; As a result, even seeing a single Italian driver on the grid has been a rarity in the last decade or so.
In English, the formal demonym (name for a group of people from the same place) is Argentine. However, in popular usage, the terms Argentinian and Argentinean
Argentina is officially called the Argentine Republic. F1 races held in Argentina are called the Argentine grand Prix.
Stefano Modena. Mr. Temperamental himself.
If he had eaten Weetabix with a spoon in his left hand, his day would be immeasurably ruined.
He had insane hype.
No matter how bad those back of the grid teams were, in regards to pre qualifying times etc, none of them come anywhere near to the Life team and their ridiculous W12 engine.....
Aguri Suzuki also failed to qualify for any of the races in the 1989 Formula One season for the Zakspeed team, his team mate Bernd Schneider only qualified for the races in Brazil and Japan.
2.5k to go until Roberto gets his story time. Nearly there, so very nearly there.
One of the ridiculous things about motor racing is that you can buy your way into the competition. In relatively safer sports, like baseball and soccer, the richest guy in the world couldn't buy his son a starting position on any professional team, but in a sport like motor racing, where one driver's incompetence can lead to other drivers getting killed or seriously maimed, Daddy can buy his little prince or princess into a race by sponsoring or outright buying a team. Daddy (or an overambitious sponsor) can also get the chosen one killed by rushing him into a race before he gains the necessary experience (ie Riccardo Paletti). It's not as likely anymore to get a totally incompetent or inexperienced driver into a top level series like Formula One, but you still get drivers whose talent/experience deficit is great enough that they are a menace to other drivers who actually belong in the series. That you can do this in a sport where people get killed (motor racing) and not in sports where that happens once in 150 years (baseball) is fantastic.
That is not true anymore - the age of "daddy's boy" has been over for a long time - and no, Lance Stroll doesn't qualify as such, he had the lower formulae results to back him up (just to immediately address what most kids reading this will be thinking about). He might not be Alonso-level, but the guy has a pole and podiums, that's not exactly Taki Inoue level results.
You can definitely "buy" a spot to a point - but you still need to be qualified to be on the grid ; The system is points based and quite transparent: we can argue all day about HOW the points are distributed - Indycar experience being treated criminally bad, for example - but it is effective at keeping totally unsuitable people off of the grid.
Also, let's not forget that some of the bigger teams also have had questionable policies about propelling their young drivers programme members into F1 way too early (keep an eye on Mercedes next, possibly trying to do it with Kimi Antonelli next season, depending on how his F2 campaign goes).
@@h3llr4iser1 I think that's pretty much true in Formula One, once they put in the stricter license restrictions. You can't be a complete dub and get into F1 on money alone. Unfortunately in the top American series like IndyCars & NASCAR, you can still buy your way in when you don't belong there. I'm not saying you can be completely hopeless, like still driving on the street with a learner's permit, but you can be considerably below what should be the minimum requirements to drive in a top series and buy your way in. This is even more true in lower series like ARCA. I don't know about the lower series in Europe.
What's even worse, and this is particularly true in lower US series like ARCA and NASCAR trucks, the drivers who are there on Daddy's coin seem to be very spoiled and entitled and think the rules don't apply to them so they frequently display a type of recklessness and false courage that they certainly wouldn't have had in the days when racing was not as safe as it is nowadays. They think they can't get hurt and, generally speaking, they can't.
I think Langes is statistically history's most unsuccessful F1 driver.
Rush would’ve been an instructional movie then, the Hesketh going broke part. It just came out too late.
F1: either you’re all in, or you’re soon out. Minardi understood that. They never accomplished much, but they were IN. Toyota wasn’t.
Those posers with refurbished F3000 cars, I never understood them. Not even a glimpse of glamour, PR or limelight. Maybe they just needed some expenses to keep the IRS outside?
But I still feel sorry for Andretti. They can’t get past the bodyguards at the door, for wearing the wrong brand of sneakers or something. The wrong reasons, anyway. I wonder what’d happen if Red Bull applied today, or Haas, Williams or Sauber. Lotus. McLaren started off as a privateer, although they’re a car manufacturer now. I don’t understand the criteria. Basically, no one is allowed in. Period. We’ll make up a reason if we have to.
Not sure if it is already like this but what if they let teams use as much turbo boost as they want - no fuel flow restrictions but X kilos of fuel per race.
I still think that's the way to shake up the grid. Sure the winners would possibly still be the same but we could get the eventual fluke pole or fluke amazing performance in the first third of the race (till it blows up or runs dry) pretty much like the 80s.
Heck as far as I can remember that's how Senna was be able to make his name driving for Toleman - huge turbo boost in a crappy car that was known it wouldn't finish and just for show in the first few laps - and get that number of poles without as many wins in his early years with Lotus...
He was an Argentine driver driving for a non-Argentinian team.
Or
He was an Argentinian driver driving for a non-Argentine team.
It really just works both ways.
It's Argentinian. I asked a co-worker who'd formerly worked there, and she said it's Argentinian.
We need an interview with Moreno where he talks about how utter crap the backmarker cars were.
He actually does have an interview on beyond the grid!
C’mon boys we’re only 2,500 subs away from the Roberto Moreno video
Didn't you do a vid on Eurobrun before? Or is it just my imagination?
1:12 alpharomeo
At least in British English, "Argentine" refers to the people whereas "Argentinian" is more generalised (although calling a person Argentinian is still acceptable in most circumstances).
Murray Walker always used to say 'in the Argentine', rather than Argentina.
@@harmkuijpers6642Well, Murray did always have his own little idiosyncracies :)
@@liamh1982 I think it was the custom long ago to say "The Argentine" , so to an old geezer like Murray Walker that's probably what he grew up with.
Eurobrun, more like Eurobruh
spot the bruins-cap!
Because this isn't That Pedal Show, but because I'm curious, what are your two Teles? /hopes one isn't a Cabronita.
One’s a strat, one’s a tele, got a Les Paul in the case up against the amp.
@@AidanMillward I've stared for months and it looked like two Teles. The downside of 2d screens. Thank you. I've just a Strat (Ash Blonde Deluxe) and LP (Cherry standard). Thinline Tele and a 335 are the wishlist lol.
huh - 12:30 i know this picture somehow ;-)
Absolute hero with that pic cos the 89 rFactor mod doesn’t have EuroBrun in it 🥰
@@AidanMillward thanks 🙂
0:45 my university in the US charges $2.25 for a bottle of soda/pop. It is ridiculous
My college in the uk charges £1.15 for a small packet of skittles. The ones that are bigger than the tiny ones but smaller than the share pack (which i never share). Its actually insane 💀😭. I could get a big packet of sweets for 89p at premier. 89p!!!!
FUCKING THANKS, BIDEN! 🙄
San Marino
You can say either 'Argentine' or 'Argentinian'. It's the same as 'Brit' and 'British'. The shorter term tends to describe just one person whereas the latter has wider use.
Argentina is officially called the Argentine Republic. F1 races held in Argentina are called the Argentine grand Prix.
'Argentinian'
£1.20 for a sausage roll? Damn, I'm not even that old and that's just mad 😶
They were 90p beginning of 2022.
😬
He is Argentine, he is an Argentinian. c.f. it is cubic, it is a box. 😄
Roberto who?
Is there a bad Italian sports car manufacturer?
*GIDDY MORENO MEME COMMENT!!1!1!!1!*
6:18 Aidan Millward is Max Verstappen confirmed. Jokes aside i used to think u were mid 20s. So how old is ur wife?
Did you seriously censor the word crap, lol? Please tell me thats not a demonitzation word, or are you just overly precautious or paranoid?
That's the algorithm for you...
I’m not overly precious. I’ve dropped every word imaginable in these videos.
12:40 uncompetetive and taking a spot away from someone who at least want' s to try?Good thing, that we don't have those kind of teams anymore. sounds like a geneormous haassle... uhm I mean enormous hustle, sorry english isn't my first language.
F1 fan: “WE DEMAND 40 CARS ON THE GRID!”
F1: No problem, we’ll start charging $120 PPV
F1 fan: F1 are pricing themselves out of business… F1 doesn’t care about the genuine fans… F1 hates proper racing… etc
😔