WiFCE/DoD III Combined Campaign Playthrough #14: Jul/Aug 1938
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Finally, the next episode is here. I have also filmed the S/O'38 turn in its entirety. I now just need to get all the files onto my computer and edit the episode together. Unless something unforeseen occurs, I would expect to have it uploaded before the end of the month.
Yeah, a new episode! Nice to see the pacific picking up speed (sort of :) ). Surprise move by the Germans to declare war on Denmark, interesting tactic to pick of some minors before they can join the allies. Looking forward to the next episode to see what that spanish nationalist raider manage to take!
my friends and I played this game for like 20 years --- loved it. I moved away five years ago and have not had a chance to play it since./ So i am enjoying your vids. keep up the production for all of us WIFers.
Appreciate you watching and glad you are enjoying it! Plenty more to come (when I can find the time). Stay tuned...
Excellent video. Looking foward for the next episode
No time to enjoy it right now, but a big "Hip Hip Horray!!!" for the next Epsode!
Thank you for that gigantic and scale-setting work!
Thank you very much
Always nice to have a treat like this. :)
Yeah, I think that was the right way with the naval bombings. You always use all the results and the port part stuff I just don't remember)
Nice video and I hope that another will be much sooner
Fantastic turn! Nice to see the full extent of the game's possibilities unfolding now, and also a longer political turn, which makes it more dynamic :) The attack on Denmark is a surprising move - looks like WWII is going to go quite differently this time (especially with CZ under French control). Quite excited to see more!
The invasion of Denmark was probably a mistake, at least at this point. I think the Germans were getting a little impatient to do something, but know that they do not have the military strength on map yet to risk a shooting war with one or more MP's. Denmark was an easy target, but the Swedes (whom Germany has been trying to win over) didn't like the action, and so Germany lost some hard won influence there. Time will tell if it was a costly error...
@@thetabletopsedge And that is why we play this game.
2 days left to end this month...
I would love to hear your thoughts as to DOW on Denmark please 🙂
I love that you pronounce Danish city names in German even before they are conquered :)
It must be the three years of German language studies at university! 🤭 Sadly, I do not speak any Danish (nor any of the other Scandinavian languages), but Kevin Magnussen is one of my favorite F1 drivers!😁
1:23:00 "scuttled before the Germans could take control of them"
... as was done historically on August 29th, 1943
Yes! I was just reading about the German occupation of Denmark in the German "official" history of the war and recall seeing that.
At the end of turn with leftover impulses - wouldn't by then have been an idea to start walking the Imperial Guards over water into Korea, with the long-term plan to be able to threaten China with just a cheap and simple "walk into the coast" attack?
Also, should the Chinese have splurged into negative money to be able to rebuild Chiang, or was there something preventing them?
Good question. It's certainly a viable tactic. However, the IG have been earmarked for another operation which will unfold soon...
@@nikolai877 The Chinese do go into debt to field some desperately needed forces, but 1939 is fast approaching, and they will be able to gear up their PM to 1/2 from 1/4, which will effectively double their available BP's (assuming the Japanese don't capture any more in the next couple of turns). The gear up will cost 7, and the Chinese debt limit is 10, so they can't afford to be too much in debt if they want to be able to gear up ASAP.
Great fun and interesting choices again. I'm a bit confused about the supply status of the Nationalist CAV after its first move, and the Chinese Sian militia in the desert. I am wondering about the status of Iceland and Greenland and how that should make the CW and the USA very nervous when considering the SUB war. Is the US option 7 something to consider? Good old Winston must be very angry!
I agree about the Danish navy since the only Democracy that is at war is China, (and isn't Iceland too far, or is it, twice the range to rebase SCS and CP), but then shouldn't China control Denmark? And again it isn't one of the minors China can control, very stimulating questions, difficult to find an easy answer.
Looking forward to more, thanks for such doing such a great job.
There is a special rule for the Spanish Civil War that allow both sides to trace supply to any city or resource they control. The Nat. CAV was able to use the resource it occupied as a supply source, allowing it to continue to move without being inverted.
Unfortunately, the political rules and states of war are some of the weakest areas of the WiF rules (and have been going back to WiFFE). The "Incomplete Conquest" rules are a concept that I have had a strong disagreement with since their inception. They do not reflect the historical situation at all, and needlessly complicate the game for very little gain in enjoyment. My suspicion is that they were created as a means of keeping a player running France involved in the game after France was conquered (or Vichied) by the Axis. However well intentioned, the idea was misguided.
While there are 8 MP's, WiF really isn't well suited for 8 players (especially a campaign scenario). The ideal WiF player count is 5: Ge, Ja/It, CW, Fr/Ru, US/Ch. The Russian and US players have almost nothing to do for the first couple years of the game. By having them run France and China, it gives them more to do. China never really has a lot to do, other than defending against the Japanese, while France is one of the smaller MP's and is almost always knocked out of the game relatively early by Germany. The workload for those two players then transitions rather well to running the USSR and US as they become more and more involved in the action (usually around the time France and China diminish).
Historically, when a nation (Major or minor) was conquered, they were effectively done as a separate entity. Yes, governments-in-exile were formed, but those forces that continued the fight were mere extensions of either the CW or US armed forces, and do not rate being treated as a separate MP in WiF terms. The countries certainly did not use a territory as a new "home country". WiF had rules for liberating countries which covered historical situations like the liberation of France in '44, so there really was no historical or game need for the Incomplete Conquest rules. There was a period in the mid-to-late 1990's where Harry Rowland had a spree of bad ideas that were incorporated into WiF, and Incomplete Conquest was one of those. It was an idea that looked good at first glance, but was never properly thought through before being added to the game (like all of his other bad ideas).
Since this is a playthrough and not a tutorial, I've yet to decide whether I'm going to use the Incomplete Conquest rules or not. I suppose now that one nation has been conquered I had better decide. And if I choose not to use them, and instead use some form of house rule (which would really only be reverting to the conquest rules of earlier WiF editions), I had better let the viewers know.
Thanks for watching! The plan is to get the next episode (S/O'38) uploaded faster than it took this one to get done!
@@thetabletopsedge Interesting answer, to which I would add that : only minors that control colonial minors and Poland, and France should be subject to the incomplete conquest rule, and the territories of the others should go to the controlling major power, or the conquering major power as in your current game. This means that only Belgium with its Congo TER, is the only ahistorical military force.
France, Poland and the Netherlands are already accounted for by the present rules. Italy's forces are handled by the CBV of the US, at least in FE, (I don't own the CE, so can't say for that version). I would like to add 2 Polish units to the Soviet force pool in 1943 and 1944 to represent the first and second Polish armies.
Many national units fought in this war, including en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Protective_Corps, or the Greenland Patrol fighting Germans in their homeland, and Tongans on Guadalcanal, finally the Brazilian "Smoking Cobras" in Italy. It really was a global war.
@@denisdelarive7753 No doubt that many nations, both large and small, contributed fighting forces to the war. I am certainly not trying to deny that. However, it is a question of scale. WiF is a grand strategic level game where a corps (or army for some MP's) is the basic unit. Other than the Poles and Free French, none of the other minor countries contributed enough to warrant explicit representation in a game of WiF's scale. The Czechs, for example, had a lot of pilots in the RAF, as well as some battalions that fought in the CW armies, but their numbers weren't sufficient to require any special rules (or units) in WiF to account for them. The conquest rules prior to the introduction of the Incomplete Conquest concept more than adequately handled the disposition of conquered country forces.
I agree regarding the addition of Polish units to the Red Army (as well as to the CW), and I'm pretty sure WiFCE does just that. I'll have to go back and check, but I think the rules direct you to add 1 or 2 Polish units to the Soviet force pools in 1943 or 1944.
@@thetabletopsedge From what I read in CE, you can add 1 of each Polish ARM, MEC, MOT to the CW, 19.5.1, it adds that any units on the Soviet side of the partition line can also be added to the CW force pool. There is also a rule somewhere that allows you to fly minor air units into neutral countries so you can save the pilots for the controlling major power. As a house rule I would add two Polish INF to the Soviet force pool.
So many version of rules FE, CE 09-2022, and CE 02-2023, so easy to get confused, and also some designer notes and various ideas published with AiF, PiF and PolIF. I should choose one rule set and write some house rules so I can stop being confused so much.
I have the CE rules so I'm probably going to get the CE vassal mod, the FE one works very well. Thanks for getting me back into WiF.
Finally your lets play is so very well done. Sorry if I occupy so much space in the comment section.
No HQ support by Chiang ?!
As was mentioned earlier when the hex next to Chiang was attacked - his HQ value is too low to affect the battle on its own, (it gets rounded to zero effect) and he can only make it harder for the Japanese to offer HQ support (and the only Japanese HQ nearby was already flipped and didn't offer support)
As Nikolai explained in his reply, Chiang's Reorg Value is too low to provide any modifier. I'm not terribly happy about the way offensive/defensive support works with the new CE rules. In fact, I have to go all the way back to WiF 5th edition to find some HQ Support rules that I like. But since there are a number of other rules that I dislike even more, and I don't want to load up this playthrough with too many house rules, this is one that I'm going to continue to play RAW.
Wouldn't the Danish ships be able to rebase to Iceland? It is a Danish territory with a capital so I would think Denmark would be only incompletely conquered (not unlike NEI when Amsterdam falls)
Technically, you are 100% correct. However, I am not using the Incomplete Conquest rules. I should clarify that, and will do so in an upcoming episode. I have never liked the Incomplete Conquest rules and think they were a poor addition to the game. They first appeared in Final Edition in 1996 and were one of a number of bad decisions that found their way into WiF with that edition. Sometime I will do a video explaining those bad decisions. Since this is a playthrough and not a tutorial series, I will be using house rules where appropriate. Although to be fair, I do need to explain that when the situations arise (like the case of Denmark's conquest).
I will be reverting to essentially the 5th edition conquest rules. When a country (either MP or minor) has its Home Country conquered, it is conquered. MP's can form governments-in-exile and the procedure will basically follow the 5th edition rules. Minor countries, when conquered, will have all of their land and air units removed from the game and their naval units will be treated like MP's when conquered. The Vichy rules handle the French situation well enough, and the CW has multiple Home Countries, meaning it will have to be conquered Home Country by Home Country. When it comes to the Netherlands and NEI, I will also handle that as it was prior to FE. NEI basically becomes a separate minor country when the Netherlands is declared on war by a MP.
There really is no historical justification for the Incomplete Conquest rules. Italy, when "conquered", did not continue to fight on from Albania, nor did Belgium continue the struggle from their colony in the Congo. The Italian Social Republic was a mere puppet of Germany and in no way could be considered a separate MP in game terms. The Incomplete Conquest rules seem to be a poorly considered, but well-intentioned, effort to solve a problem that doesn't really have a good solution (except to avoid it in the first place by never playing WiF with more than 5 players).
Please understand that I am not arguing that there were no soldiers, seamen, and airmen from minor countries that fought on after their homeland was conquered. Just about every minor country had men who contributed to the war after conquest. The Poles provided tens of thousands of soldiers and airmen to both the CW and the USSR (as well as a couple of naval units that escaped the Baltic in 1939). The Belgians had airmen flying in RAF squadrons. The Greeks, Norwegians, and even the Czechs, whose country disappeared before the war began, fielded battalions in the British and American Armies and flew with the RAF. The question is a matter of scale. And none of those nations, besides the Poles, contributed forces in large enough numbers to be explicitly represented at WiF's scale (except for the Poles, who have rules specifically covering them). The internment rule for pilots nicely represents the numerous flyers who fought after conquest. But the fact remains that none of the minor countries whose homelands were conquered by the Axis continued to operate as an independent entity (in game terms).
I shall try to remember to include a brief sidebar in the next episode I film (N/D'38-J/F'39) explaining how I'm handling Conquest in this game. Thanks for watching!