In the manga the gaps still implied to be so wide like at some point you just gotta go like;”Damn what even entertained Beerus to keep Goku around to begin with”
It's pretty simple. Here's some ways that it is easily explained away. A. Beerus got stronger. B. That was base Beerus. Not Ultra instinct or Ego Beerus. (Both of which he can enter at his leisure.) C. Liberties were taken with movie/BoG saga to make it more enjoyable. Take your pick but B seems to make the most sense to me anyways. Now that I think about it, it may very well be a mixture of all of these things.
@@jasonbates6510 A) Beerus got stronger. No evidence of him ever training. B) Beerus has no UI, Whis explicitly says so, his "ego" state is passive you can't turn off something passive so there is no such thing as "base Beerus" C) Writing is writing.
He's using 10% to play with Goku, not his all out full force. And that's his base, he's not even in full destroyer mode. Like 10% of Goku's base doesn't touch him at super sayain.
10 percent of your total power isn't 10 percent of your first form. And there is no destroyer transformation like there's no Angel transformation. You are or you aren't. Toppo wasn't a full destroyer so his "transformation was really just having god ki to do hakai. Destroyers and angels generally don't transform they're base is their peak.
Thr lowest quote from the movie was "I havent even come close to using my full power in this fight" or maybe he said fraction Idk so it was never a clear number. But in the anime version (which I didnt watch but many others did) he said something like 70%? Idk. In the movie I think he was just teasing Goku but the anime he did give a solid number which is odd.
I can agree with that. They retconned him too much. He should have said 1% of his powers. I'm fine with Beerus being strongest and they are clearly done with the power levels. They just be having people fight for real. But I'd like to start putting that pussy in action (no paws) and let him actually fight. Even retconned, let's get to the point he needs to actually do something. I just wonder where the story could go to justify his power after you had him scrap with the destroyers of all the other universes already.
I wonder though if Beerus' power ups scale like SSJ or Frieza transformations, DragonBall powerscaling is completely broken at this point and I've stopped caring and just go with it lol
Beerus has transformations and power multipliers too. A better potential unleashed than Gohan, an imperfect ultra instinct form and full power god of destruction. I will agree that the wording for the scaling is inconsistent and has always been that way for most DB characters.
Beerus' whole thing was that he was at 70% in the movie, but in the anime it's retconned that he was lying to Goku in order to motivate him to get stronger. It's like, an attainable goal vs a journey of 1,000 miles. Issue is, Beerus really didn't understand Goku at all at this point. If he had been completely honest, it only would have made Goku more fight happy and he would have trained anyway. We don't actually know how strong Beerus really is, because he never actually spoke about his power with honesty. The only thing we know for certain is that he's one of the strongest GoDs if not the very strongest.
@@triplecrosscounter it’s also headcanon to say that Beerus was always this strong, but he wasn’t, he was from 70% when fighting Goku, comparable to Vegito Blue to now being above Black Freiza, it doesn’t make sense so it’s mainly plot
I think something that a lot of people leave out is that I don’t think God is as strong in later appearances. Even in the manga it Took VEGITO BLUE to surpass the Beerus that fought Goku.
we don’t know if the 1 go 100% is a linear scale, is 1% x2 equal to 2%, we don’t know if that how he works of if their are point where the percents become more like it all the same incr until like 15 than 16 is 1.2 times stronger than 15
Tbh Beerus prob said this shit to make Goku think he can reach his level and Goku did increase his power by like 50 times when he absorbed the form into his base and used ssj
The Power Scales, the creator gets to decide who is stronger and about how much. The Creator Gets To Decide if the character is using 5 percent of their power on another character. Not The Fans. Since the Creator of DRAGONBALL is Gone, it’s up to his underling on how powerful is characters are now.
The only thing that makes sense for me is he is training and growing with them. Think how weakly your muscles would be after 50 years of sleeping Just THINK. So beerus is slowly regaining his true powee
Just saying. It makes sense. He's lying about how powerful he was to make Goku feel better when he lose. Beerus lived for so long so a Sayian 45 years old surpassing a beings billions years old lol. Who's stronger? The goat Beerus!😊
Goku Age 13: Surpasses Roshi hundreds of years hold Goku Age 47: Surpasses Supreme Kai who is millions of years old Goku Age 47: Surpasses Kid Buu who is also millions of years old. Goku Age 50: Surpasses Beerus. End of Z Goku confirmed above Beerus.
In the original movie he Beerus wasn’t lying but at that point Toriyama stated himself he hasn’t given any thought to the future of DB so it was retconned in the original DBZ movie canon In the DBS anime canon, Beerus was just lying by saying things about rage boosted Vegeta making him use 10% of his power and him going 100% against SSG Goku later on. This is even confirmed on Beerus and Whis’ trip back to their home. Beerus is only really surpassed depending on how you interpret certain statements from supplemental material and lines about multiple GoDs in the anime (which may or may not be relevant to Beerus at all). One example being the somewhat contentious arm wrestling statement (which the anime probably did out side of Toriyama’s vision anyways). The DBS manga canon and hasn’t really hand much to suggest Beerus being surpasses except for Shin thinking that SSB Vegito might have and V-Jump saying he has (likely taken from Shin’s statement even though it wasn’t confirmed in the source material). All in all, how much Beerus’ power was retconned kind of depends on how many of the statements are interpreted. But in the DBS anime, it’s pretty clear he was lying during the BoG arc.
Beerus isn't weaker than Jiren. Jiren is stronger than a god of destruction not all. Its just that Belmod beat Beerus ONCE in an arm wrestling contest and we dont know what time that was during. In the manga the mouse god also beat beerus in an arm wrestling contest but they were on par
Really isn't stronger. Goes based off of how much damage Vegeta can take before capping out. UI has shown to be more reliable, durable, and totally capable of handling UE Vegeta's destroyer energy. Also TUI outclassed the last good feat UE has shown. So this is cap
No he didn't. Made the God's of Destruction stand up to recognize he learned a technique that was naturally hard for them to hone and that's it. Been stated multiple times already that UI is just the Angel's technique for divine power. GoD's have their own, but they're impressed that Goku can do something they organically can't
@@cosmik411 Jiren was stated to be stronger than all the gods of destruction multiple times, Belmod was stated to be stronger or atleast relative to Beerus and Goku is stronger than Jiren. There's nothing to back up Beerus being stronger than Goku or Jiren in the anime
@Santzu_ Jiren was only stated to be stronger than all God's of Destruction in the manga. In the anime, it was only stated he was stronger than Belmod (his own God of Destruction) and Whis was the one who was teasing about Belmod being stronger only because Beerus lost to him in an arm wrestling contest. The manga version Belmod's not even the one who beat Beerus at arm wrestling. It was Quintilla. According to what you're thinking Beerus should've been worried about Goku ever since he got Kaioken stacked on Blue because Beerus was being teased by Whis about the fact Goku said he was gonna use it on him
@@cosmik411 In multiple promotional materials, magazines and in the show Jiren was stated to surpass the power of a god of destruction. The fact that Beerus even lost in an arm wrestle is proof that they are atleast relative. And keep in mind all of this is when Jiren was holding back EXTREMELY. There's multiple things supporting Jiren and Goku being stronger than Beerus and nothing to support Beerus being stronger
@Santzu_ Being stronger than "a" God of Destruction is not the same as being stronger than "all" gods of destruction. And unless you can show proof where it explicitly states in the anime that "Jiren is stronger than every single God of Destruction" than that's just not true. It's not like they didn't retcon it already in the Super Hero movie stating Jiren wasn't even really stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but knew how to use his power alot better. The only way you can keep the argument that Beerus is weaker is if you ignore everything the manga has shown either way, because there is tons of proof there that Goku and Vegeta still can't compete. Anime is very bad at portraying things when the manga story wasn't even flushed out at the time. Regardless the facts still stay that Jiren isn't on Beerus' level and the fact it's still the only argument after years of other material coming out that it needs to be let go lol It makes total sense why someone would think Goku surpassed Beerus in the anime, but you're not looking at everything bro
In the original movie he Beerus wasn’t lying but at that point Toriyama stated himself he hasn’t given any thought to the future of DB so it was retconned in the original DBZ movie canon In the DBS anime canon, Beerus was just lying by saying things about rage boosted Vegeta making him use 10% of his power and him going 100% against SSG Goku later on. This is even confirmed on Beerus and Whis’ trip back to their home. Beerus is only really surpassed depending on how you interpret certain statements from supplemental material and lines about multiple GoDs in the anime (which may or may not be relevant to Beerus at all). One example being the somewhat contentious arm wrestling statement (which the anime probably did out side of Toriyama’s vision anyways). The DBS manga canon and hasn’t really hand much to suggest Beerus being surpasses except for Shin thinking that SSB Vegito might have and V-Jump saying he has (likely taken from Shin’s statement even though it wasn’t confirmed in the source material). All in all, how much Beerus’ power was retconned kind of depends on how many of the statements are interpreted. But in the DBS anime, it’s pretty clear he was lying during the BoG arc.
In the manga the gaps still implied to be so wide like at some point you just gotta go like;”Damn what even entertained Beerus to keep Goku around to begin with”
It's pretty simple. Here's some ways that it is easily explained away. A. Beerus got stronger.
B. That was base Beerus. Not Ultra instinct or Ego Beerus. (Both of which he can enter at his leisure.)
C. Liberties were taken with movie/BoG saga to make it more enjoyable.
Take your pick but B seems to make the most sense to me anyways. Now that I think about it, it may very well be a mixture of all of these things.
@@jasonbates6510
A) Beerus got stronger.
No evidence of him ever training.
B) Beerus has no UI, Whis explicitly says so, his "ego" state is passive you can't turn off something passive so there is no such thing as "base Beerus"
C) Writing is writing.
@@ACertainManhe went into ui in the manga
@@dylangreen1164 No, he didn't. Go reread that dialogue.
@@ACertainMan I suggest you go read Beus has access to UI and ultra ego. He used it in the top warm up against the other destroyers
He's using 10% to play with Goku, not his all out full force. And that's his base, he's not even in full destroyer mode. Like 10% of Goku's base doesn't touch him at super sayain.
10 percent of your total power isn't 10 percent of your first form.
And there is no destroyer transformation like there's no Angel transformation. You are or you aren't.
Toppo wasn't a full destroyer so his "transformation was really just having god ki to do hakai.
Destroyers and angels generally don't transform they're base is their peak.
Thr lowest quote from the movie was "I havent even come close to using my full power in this fight" or maybe he said fraction Idk so it was never a clear number. But in the anime version (which I didnt watch but many others did) he said something like 70%? Idk. In the movie I think he was just teasing Goku but the anime he did give a solid number which is odd.
I can agree with that. They retconned him too much. He should have said 1% of his powers.
I'm fine with Beerus being strongest and they are clearly done with the power levels. They just be having people fight for real. But I'd like to start putting that pussy in action (no paws) and let him actually fight. Even retconned, let's get to the point he needs to actually do something. I just wonder where the story could go to justify his power after you had him scrap with the destroyers of all the other universes already.
THANK YOU BRO OH MY GOD IM TIRED OF THE GARBO SCALING
I wonder though if Beerus' power ups scale like SSJ or Frieza transformations, DragonBall powerscaling is completely broken at this point and I've stopped caring and just go with it lol
Beerus has transformations and power multipliers too. A better potential unleashed than Gohan, an imperfect ultra instinct form and full power god of destruction. I will agree that the wording for the scaling is inconsistent and has always been that way for most DB characters.
Where, point me to where it says beerus has transformations
Beerus is such a terrible character. Some people crap on power levels, but then jump to defend Beerus' strength with headcannon.
Literally, this entire comment section is people using headcanon to justify beerus' power.
Now hear me out, what if Beerus is just really bad at math himself/understanding the actual percentage of his power
That sounds like something Toriyama would’ve wrote😂…🙂…😕…😔 I miss him so much…
Headcanon
Beerus' whole thing was that he was at 70% in the movie, but in the anime it's retconned that he was lying to Goku in order to motivate him to get stronger.
It's like, an attainable goal vs a journey of 1,000 miles. Issue is, Beerus really didn't understand Goku at all at this point. If he had been completely honest, it only would have made Goku more fight happy and he would have trained anyway.
We don't actually know how strong Beerus really is, because he never actually spoke about his power with honesty. The only thing we know for certain is that he's one of the strongest GoDs if not the very strongest.
The original DragonBall Z Battle of God's is no longer Canon to his actual strength
It is actually really simple. Beerus is a liar.
i really wonder if Beerus has a secret form or something bc that's literally the only way that shit makes sense to me.
he has ultra ego or a version of it that he uses so he can also get stronger during a fight
@@freemans15 cap, no confirmation of that at all.
@@stanleech666bro... Read the damn manga. Even without the techniques of Destruction, he's still bodying Vegeta and Goku with ease.
@@stanleech666 how do u think vegeta got to ultra ego, who do you think thought him the way?
People still think that Beerus from Battle of Gods is at the same power as Current Beerus.
He never trained, that's headcanon
@@triplecrosscounter it’s also headcanon to say that Beerus was always this strong, but he wasn’t, he was from 70% when fighting Goku, comparable to Vegito Blue to now being above Black Freiza, it doesn’t make sense so it’s mainly plot
I thought Wis called Beerus out for lying to Goku about using x% of his power while they were on their way back to their planet?
I think something that a lot of people leave out is that I don’t think God is as strong in later appearances. Even in the manga it Took VEGITO BLUE to surpass the Beerus that fought Goku.
we don’t know if the 1 go 100% is a linear scale, is 1% x2 equal to 2%, we don’t know if that how he works of if their are point where the percents become more like it all the same incr until like 15 than 16 is 1.2 times stronger than 15
it should also be notated that he has ultra ego so 100% is only base 100% he can go over
From my understanding, both Whis and Beerus lied a lot about how much power Beerus has been using to fight/train Goku and Vegeta
Tbh Beerus prob said this shit to make Goku think he can reach his level and Goku did increase his power by like 50 times when he absorbed the form into his base and used ssj
The Power Scales, the creator gets to decide who is stronger and about how much. The Creator Gets To Decide if the character is using 5 percent of their power on another character. Not The Fans.
Since the Creator of DRAGONBALL is Gone, it’s up to his underling on how powerful is characters are now.
I agree this is something that has always bothered me no way he still keeps up with MUI
Dbs scaling was never good.
Should've stopped taking it seriously when super saiyan vegeta couldn't lift 1000 tons
The only thing that makes sense for me is he is training and growing with them.
Think how weakly your muscles would be after 50 years of sleeping
Just THINK.
So beerus is slowly regaining his true powee
Then why doesn't the manga say this, it's just headcanon
besides him possibly lying, his training isnt complete so why cant he be getting stronger aswell
He should train to be a better GoD rather than train for some power that he will literally never use
10% ten times is definitely 100%
By now Gogeta or Vegito could take Beerus
True but that's the whole db universe
not really. this is only a major problem in super, you can understand the scaling in db and dbz pretty easily just by watching and reading the manga
Just saying. It makes sense. He's lying about how powerful he was to make Goku feel better when he lose. Beerus lived for so long so a Sayian 45 years old surpassing a beings billions years old lol. Who's stronger? The goat Beerus!😊
Goku Age 13: Surpasses Roshi hundreds of years hold
Goku Age 47: Surpasses Supreme Kai who is millions of years old
Goku Age 47: Surpasses Kid Buu who is also millions of years old.
Goku Age 50: Surpasses Beerus.
End of Z Goku confirmed above Beerus.
The goat beerus that people have to make up headcanons for in order for his strength to make sense
Its dumb but bro he not ssb kk level
In the movie didn't beerus use 70-80% against untrained god form Goku? Just Saiyan...
apparently he was “lying”
@@JaykoroHe was lying to Whis alone after the fight already concluded.
In the original movie he Beerus wasn’t lying but at that point Toriyama stated himself he hasn’t given any thought to the future of DB so it was retconned in the original DBZ movie canon
In the DBS anime canon, Beerus was just lying by saying things about rage boosted Vegeta making him use 10% of his power and him going 100% against SSG Goku later on. This is even confirmed on Beerus and Whis’ trip back to their home.
Beerus is only really surpassed depending on how you interpret certain statements from supplemental material and lines about multiple GoDs in the anime (which may or may not be relevant to Beerus at all). One example being the somewhat contentious arm wrestling statement (which the anime probably did out side of Toriyama’s vision anyways).
The DBS manga canon and hasn’t really hand much to suggest Beerus being surpasses except for Shin thinking that SSB Vegito might have and V-Jump saying he has (likely taken from Shin’s statement even though it wasn’t confirmed in the source material).
All in all, how much Beerus’ power was retconned kind of depends on how many of the statements are interpreted. But in the DBS anime, it’s pretty clear he was lying during the BoG arc.
Also it doesn’t make sense I thought berrues was weaker then jiren so by that logic goku should be stronger cuz he beat jiren
Beerus isn't weaker than Jiren. Jiren is stronger than a god of destruction not all. Its just that Belmod beat Beerus ONCE in an arm wrestling contest and we dont know what time that was during. In the manga the mouse god also beat beerus in an arm wrestling contest but they were on par
@@cryingmetal9349 In the anime Jiren and Goku are both stronger than Jiren
it’s still clear that Beerus has an Unmastered UI form and he also taught Vegeta how to use UE which in strength is stronger than UI
Really isn't stronger. Goes based off of how much damage Vegeta can take before capping out. UI has shown to be more reliable, durable, and totally capable of handling UE Vegeta's destroyer energy. Also TUI outclassed the last good feat UE has shown. So this is cap
Goku already surpassed Beerus in the anime
No he didn't. Made the God's of Destruction stand up to recognize he learned a technique that was naturally hard for them to hone and that's it. Been stated multiple times already that UI is just the Angel's technique for divine power. GoD's have their own, but they're impressed that Goku can do something they organically can't
@@cosmik411 Jiren was stated to be stronger than all the gods of destruction multiple times, Belmod was stated to be stronger or atleast relative to Beerus and Goku is stronger than Jiren. There's nothing to back up Beerus being stronger than Goku or Jiren in the anime
@Santzu_ Jiren was only stated to be stronger than all God's of Destruction in the manga. In the anime, it was only stated he was stronger than Belmod (his own God of Destruction) and Whis was the one who was teasing about Belmod being stronger only because Beerus lost to him in an arm wrestling contest. The manga version Belmod's not even the one who beat Beerus at arm wrestling. It was Quintilla. According to what you're thinking Beerus should've been worried about Goku ever since he got Kaioken stacked on Blue because Beerus was being teased by Whis about the fact Goku said he was gonna use it on him
@@cosmik411 In multiple promotional materials, magazines and in the show Jiren was stated to surpass the power of a god of destruction. The fact that Beerus even lost in an arm wrestle is proof that they are atleast relative. And keep in mind all of this is when Jiren was holding back EXTREMELY.
There's multiple things supporting Jiren and Goku being stronger than Beerus and nothing to support Beerus being stronger
@Santzu_ Being stronger than "a" God of Destruction is not the same as being stronger than "all" gods of destruction.
And unless you can show proof where it explicitly states in the anime that "Jiren is stronger than every single God of Destruction" than that's just not true. It's not like they didn't retcon it already in the Super Hero movie stating Jiren wasn't even really stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but knew how to use his power alot better. The only way you can keep the argument that Beerus is weaker is if you ignore everything the manga has shown either way, because there is tons of proof there that Goku and Vegeta still can't compete. Anime is very bad at portraying things when the manga story wasn't even flushed out at the time. Regardless the facts still stay that Jiren isn't on Beerus' level and the fact it's still the only argument after years of other material coming out that it needs to be let go lol
It makes total sense why someone would think Goku surpassed Beerus in the anime, but you're not looking at everything bro
In the original movie he Beerus wasn’t lying but at that point Toriyama stated himself he hasn’t given any thought to the future of DB so it was retconned in the original DBZ movie canon
In the DBS anime canon, Beerus was just lying by saying things about rage boosted Vegeta making him use 10% of his power and him going 100% against SSG Goku later on. This is even confirmed on Beerus and Whis’ trip back to their home.
Beerus is only really surpassed depending on how you interpret certain statements from supplemental material and lines about multiple GoDs in the anime (which may or may not be relevant to Beerus at all). One example being the somewhat contentious arm wrestling statement (which the anime probably did out side of Toriyama’s vision anyways).
The DBS manga canon and hasn’t really hand much to suggest Beerus being surpasses except for Shin thinking that SSB Vegito might have and V-Jump saying he has (likely taken from Shin’s statement even though it wasn’t confirmed in the source material).
All in all, how much Beerus’ power was retconned kind of depends on how many of the statements are interpreted. But in the DBS anime, it’s pretty clear he was lying during the BoG arc.