You implore me? You implore me? You always were one for fancy words. Well, things are different now, John. Now, I'm in charge! No more Dutch, and no more you. Implores. I, I implores you to go back and tell them to send someone just a little bit more impressive next time.
*_why am I imagining a Napoleonic era French officer with a sideways facing Shako holding his pistol sideways and telling a Russian officer to “pull up”_*
I know quite a few cavalry men liked to wear their caps somewhat cocked to the side for the rule of cool like the Don Cossacks. Think I’ve seen Napoleon of depictions of hussars/Chasseur à cheval doing a similar number with shakos.
They hath watched me as I casually sauntered along, and they hath held some grudge against me. They hath taken the guard duty unto themselves, alas, only to attempt to find me committing foul.
With all due respect I think the horses you ride will be quite different to the ones during, say, the Napoleonic Wars. Remember that these were war horses, trained for battle, which is full of loud sounds, smoke and potentially cuts and bruises. I assume you don't need to train your horses to stay under control during a battle?
@@kapitankapital6580 lol yes, very true, I was thinking of that, but also, even soldiers want to keep their horses in good condition, so I thought maybe that's what they would do. I've never shot a flintlock weapon though, so idk much about the burning powder, it was a guess
They also used carbines on horseback. When you fires to an enemy in front of you, your pistol is next to the horses ears, I think the powder is the thing you get worse in second time
This is the first thing I thought. If the flash from the pan is anywhere near the horse's neck (hide or mane), the flare could actually singe the horse to the point of distraction. Unless of course you think you can train a horse to ignore being "on fire", which their reaction, during battle, would be something I'd rather watch than endure.
🤣Unfortunately it was wet. Thankfully for my family though very distant grandfather fought there. My wife distant relative was at the battle as well he was in the Scottish Highlanders.
Our gangsters are more advanced than that. They use revolvers chambered in .44 Russian. No im not even joking, the BBC did a Panorama documentary about it.
Pistoliers, the original gangsters do a ride-by, all pikemen are wankers. Caracolling, is the proper word making cavaliers nap in the dirt. Looking flash, while dealing death from afar tip my piece sideways for this is war!
Maybe this "dangling" saber was some sort of safety for not losing one's saber while charging or whatever, similar to how snowboarders or surfers attach their boards to their feet. Just a thought
When the blade enters the bpdy of a soldier on foot, calvermen would "drop" their saber ro keep from breaking their wrists. So the depiction was probably just somebody just resorting to their sidearm just after running aomebody threw...
@@raybuckler1045 yeah but hussars wouldnt really be out there stabbing people, they use sabers to hack, slash and cut, precisely to avoid the sword getting stuck in somebody
It is indeed a safety device to keep from losing the sword, similar to lanyards for pistols. The use of a loop or "sword knot" was common to keep from losing one's sword or sabre. You stuck your hand through the loop, twisted it once or twice, and grasped the hilt. It gave enough slack to use the sword but if you dropped it it would not fall beyond your ability to retrieve it. Virtually every military sword I've seen from the late 1700s onwards had some hole or opening in the guard or knuckle bow to string it through, both originals and reproductions. By the 1800s all swords tend to have the openings. I've cut with reproductions using a sword knot and it does not get in the way of using the sword. But I imagine it would be very useful on horseback esp. if the weapon was jarred loose from your grip. Regarding the debate below re: cutting vs. thrusting it depends on the type of sword, type of unit, and time period. Some soldiers were taught to "give point" and extract the thrust on the running horse, and carried straighter swords more convenient for this, others more curved cutting weapons (which of course could still thrust but were not as designed for it). Generally more thrust centric swords became the norm in the very late 1800s and early 1900s. My copy of the US sabre manual from 1914 deals more with thrusts, but John Musgrave Waite's sword and sabre manual from the 1800's is for a more cut-and-thrust style. Of course the 1914 manual is for cavalry as no one else still carried swords by then, Waite deals more with fighting on foot. Regarding the angle of pistol shooting, most replica's I've handled (never fortunate enough to handle original 200 year old pistols sadly) have around 12 inch barrels and very shallow grips making them as Brandon mentions tip heavy but also the grip angles make them prone to aim high (perhaps this was to counteract the weight and balance?). Either way given the shallow grip means unless one makes a deliberate effort to correct it you could end up shooting high, perhaps the side grip was an attempt to correct this for snap shooting a horseback.
Actually, in this very video, you had a second image that showed a saber being secured to the wrist while firing the pistol. The french charge of the square, the same calvaryman who is shooting his pistol, has his saber attached to his wrist.
I believe it's just to avoid dropping the saber which would be very inconvenient to pick up in the heat of battle. I recall hearing this from a cavalry re-enactor that I'm familiar with.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis If one is right-handed, one fires his pistol as he rides across the the enemy's line, holsters it, and(if he has only one pistol) catches up his saber to continue the battle
I held something heavy following along to experience it as you described it exactly true, holding the piece like a conventional pistol hurts almost straight away This is why experimental history is so exciting, sometimes you find small things that make perfect sense and give you a window into the life of someone living in the 18th century
Late to the party, but: They are holding their pistols in the same way they would hold their swords extended for a thrust. That might just be muscle memory, but it also has the advantage that with the wrist held horizontal one is much less likely to get an over-extension injury to the wrist and tendons - horses move up and down as well as forward and side to side, after all. Swords, if extended horizontally for the thrust, were always held with the knuckles to the sides or even pointing up to ensure adequate flexibility to prevent injury, and the "side grip" with a pistol is just a natural extension of this practice. With some of the early long-barrelled nearly straight-stocked wheellock pistols that might have been the only way to shoot them.
Another superb video Mr Brandon. Your videos have a special interest for me due to the fact that my grandfather was in the grenadier guards also was a heavy and light machine gun instructor. He sadly passed away January 2016. Thank you for your great work and bringing brilliant fun to the history of British military.
Brandon, regarding the dangling sabre in the image, it is indeed a safety device to keep from losing the sword, similar to lanyards for pistols in later periods. The use of a loop or "sword knot" was common to keep from losing one's sword or sabre. You stuck your hand through the loop, twisted it once or twice, and grasped the hilt. It gave enough slack to use the sword but if you dropped it it would not fall beyond your ability to retrieve it. Many military swords I've seen from the late 1700s onwards had some hole or opening in the guard or knuckle bow to string it through, both originals and reproductions. By the 1800s all swords tend to have the openings. I've cut with reproductions using a sword knot and it does not get in the way of using the sword. But I imagine it would be very useful on horseback esp. if the weapon was jarred loose from your grip. Regarding the angle of pistol shooting, most replica's I've handled (never fortunate enough to handle original 200 year old pistols sadly) have around 12 inch barrels and very shallow grips making them as you mention tip heavy but also the grip angles make them prone to aim high (perhaps this was to counteract the weight and balance?). Never shot one yet (looking to get into black powder tho!) but given the shallow grip it seems unless one makes a deliberate effort to correct it you could end up shooting high, so, perhaps the side grip was an attempt to correct this for snap shooting a horseback, not just a comfort thing?
Brandon, this style of grip can be found as far back as the early 17th Century and is very common in paintings from the 30 & 80 years wars. It may well be even older but there is less in the way of highly detailed military paintings from the 16th Century. The main reason for the grip was that it was thought to reduce the risk of a misfire, also pistols were carried with the butt pointing forward in the new style of holsters which made the pistol turned sideways grip a very natural one when drawing the pistol. (Earlier holster used by the German reiters were slung sideways across the neck rather than on the sides.) Having the saber hanging from the wrist using the sword-knot was a common way to kept it within easy reach when using a pistol, carbine pr doing something else with your hand near the enemy. Polish instructions for hussars mention their use in 1704.
Greetings Brandon. I am somewhat ignorant of the British army's tactics, uniforms, organization, equipment etc. specifically during the American War of Independence. I was wondering if there were any sources (esp. books) that you could recommend on these topics, as you are quite knowledgeable on them.Thanks for the help!
You keep the pistol sideways form horseback the same way you keep a sword sideways when on horseback, to not hurt your hand when the horse is mowing but not in galop.
Lovely video, and it gave me an idea. These early riflemen had a variety of firing positions that have since fallen out of use in favour of the modern three: standing, kneeling, and prone. Why not make a video about these.
So the sword hanging from the wrist.. I think is pretty normal, cooz it then will be difficult putting it back, then grabbing your pistol.. it’s then also very useful so you would not drop it especially when on horse back.. so very cool..
You actually don't want the powder in the pan to be right against the touch hole. When it is it ends up having a fuze like effect, slowing the ignition. A side by side test was very illuminating for me.
Spit balliing ideas here, but two related thoughts come to mind. 1) you commented on the ergonomics of holding it like that with it's weight, adding onto that even with nothing in your hand if you were to point at something, that is the more comfortable way to hold your hand. If you are not going to be aiming down the barrel anyway, you may as well be comfortable. 2) When I was in the infantry, and doing instinctive shooting, I would (and honestly still tend to shoot like this) have my left hand supporting the rifle in such a way that my index finger is pointing down the barrel. It is faster to point at a close target than to align the target, your sights and your eye. While riding rapidly along it would make sense in my mind to point at a target with the trigger finger in a comfortable manner, and squeeze.
From my experience, it is better to not allow the priming charge to contact the vent as much as is possible. It tends to create a "fuse." I never fill my pan more than 1/3 full and try to keep it to the outside of the pan. Once I started doing this, the reliability factor increased dramatically. I suspect the reason for that illustration was to " look cool" if I could use a modern phrase, to catch the reader's eye and make him want to read the book. It would be a graphical equivalent to " clickbait. I have no doubt that pistols were indeed fired as depicted, in combat emergencies, but I can't believe it was standard practice. Very best regatds
That is very interesting! I always tend to prime towards the vent thinking it would be better that way. I'll have to do a little experimenting with your approach! Though I'm definitely with you in not priming more than a third or so of the pan! Too many people overload it and get way too large a blast in the face.
I'm thinking that sabres were held sideways like that while charging. It would be natural for a sabreur to adopt the same grip when holding a pistol. Since the examples you show are horse soldiers, and one is charging, and one is deffo a sabreur, I'm going with that. Some other commenters agree with me, so they must be right. Adding that a sideways grip might make it easier to adjust aim while pressing home a charge into a line of troops. A vertical grip would require moving the entire arm side-to-side to shift aim, while a sideways grip would allow a wrist movement without risking injury from recoil.
The russian hussar fashiones a saber knot dear Brandon. It kept the trooper from loosing his main weapon and enabled hin to just let it dangle to fire a carbine, pistol or to read orders, maps and even to train a spyglass. Quite common and a lot more practical them sheathing the sword for every minor task.
About the hanging sabre from the wrist, it was common for horsemen since like the late 15th century lacing the sword around to wrist, in order to a) not lose it after the first contact of a charge b) have the hands free for other motivations (holding/using/loading a gun or simply read or holding orders ecc). Unfortunately I can't rember the technical name of the lacing in English (in italian is the "dragona", obviously alluding to the dragoons) but it does appear quite often on swordsmanship tratises. Also, someone suggests that adding that much lenght of sill and metallic laces could in some ways protect from minor cuts.
Nice video! I have also read about this subject a little bit so here you go. This was also quite common in the thirty years war, likely even more so than in the 18th century because the powder was less reliable. Therefore it would help to tilt the powder closer to the touchhole.
Regarding the dangling saber, as far as I have seen, that is pretty common for Cavalrymen who carry pistols. Funnily enough the depiction of the french cuirassier depicts the saber being hung from the sword knot in the same way. It works quite well and leaves quick acces to the sword. We also have a lot earlier sourcrs for the same sort of idea. E.g. turkish cavalrymen used to hold the saber in their palm while using a bow and drawing the bowstring
It is also derived from the way that wheellock pistols were held back in the 16th and 17th Centuries, both on horsevback and on foot. The main reason was, interestingly, to ensure that the sparks generated by the wheellock's serrated wheel against the iron pyrates in the cock's jaws fell against the powder stacked against the touch hole, enabling a more reliable ignition of the main charge. Wheellock pistol butts were even designed to enforce this grip, which also made for a far more steady and secure hold onto the pistol.
Tools of killing needed to become a bit more ergonomical for sure. 😉 Btw. the saber being secured by a piece of cloth (by cavalry soldiers at least) was a common occurrence in my opinion. I'm pretty sure Matt Easton from Scholargladiatora once made a video about this matter (i'm sorry i can't find it right now).
I noticed in the painting at 4:07, the French Cuirassier is also dangling his sword from a lanyard on his wrist. Interesting that. As you brought up 'horse furniture' it seems like another unusual topic for a vid. (Unless, of course, you've already done one. 🤔)
Also happened upon another picture depicting a dragoon holding his pistol like that: www.militaryheritage.com/images/HeavyDragoonPistol_1755_Access_Heritage.PNG
This grip reminds me of how cavalrymen would point their sabres in most period paintings, not pointing straight, but rather hanging upside down and towards the front. With both a sabre and a pistol, you have weapons that are rather front-heavy, and if you point them forward the way you would imagine doing it on foot, it does leave your wrist bent close to its limit. On foot that's barely an issue and at most just a discomfort, but if you're riding on horse at full speed, that's a rather rough ride, and it's not hard to imagine that any particularly strong bump might upset your grip, or worse, injure your wrist. Holding the gun sideways while galloping would give you more room for your wrist to move with the ups and downs of the ride.
I think it may be a side effect of delivering pistol fire to the rear of you whilst passing, which was a widely practiced tactic for cavalrymen. I suspect it's just the most natural way to draw and fire while sort of reaching behind your back, and as you say aim isn't as much a concern as getting a quick shot off in passing.
Scholagladitoria my have an answer for this. He has a few videos on body mechanics and, as far as I understand it, when the arm is extended it is a much more natural position for the wrist to take if it is cocked toward the inside of the body. Think of the cavalry giving point on horseback with swords, they flip the wrist because it allows for less stress on the wrist and easier extraction from the target. Interesting video.
I love this shit--things that seem anachronistic at first glance but are actually well-supported as being period-authentic for the time. Like Venetian sunglasses, or steam-powered cars.
I imagine that in addition to keeping the pistol stable in the hand, that the sideways or half sideways position also very importantly reduced powder sloshing out of the priming pan if the cover was poorly fitting.
Hi. I'm renactmenof XVII centre rajtar. When you fire from horseback you should hold gun is slight angle to make sure that wind at gallop won't blow off flame of your powder away from the main charge. You have to also keep in mind that if lock is even slightly loose then during ride some of your powder may be gone so flame won't be so strong as you may expect shooting as a footman.
There is also a painting of Monsieur Henri de la Rochejaqulein holding his pistol sideways. He was a leader of the Vendee royalist peasants during the French Revolution.
I suspect the dangling saber is because a proper cavalryman ought to have his wrist through the lanyard to retain his weapon. Perhaps he saw an enemy who was an immediate threat but a little too far to saber, dropped his saber, and drew his pistol.
Seems to be the same reason for the "hanging" (point down) grip with sabres, pointing a heavy sword or flintlock while on a galloping horse can be very hard on the wrist.
To my knowlegde it was done to make the pistol fire more reliably, something that was done already with wheellock pistols in the 17th or 16th century. Especially with all the shaking around on a horse you want the priming powder as close to the touch hole as possible. It might not be as fast which might be more important in a duel though
The sideways grip probably came from how a sabre is pointed on horseback. Cavalry would turn their swords to point them to prevent them wobbling up and down as the horse moved. It's reasonable that they would do the same with a pistol for the same reason.
A thing about flintlock pistols back in the day, was that the igniter hole wasn't above the pan but right at the bottom of it. Meaning that it would act like a fuse more than a flame source to ignite powder. The other thing was consistency and quality of powder. turning the pistol sideways may guarantee it sets off the chamber charge. Since we're talking soldiers here who would be out in all weathers. there's not always a guarantee that our powder will ignite.
I imagine the Cavalry man with the sabre dangling from his wrist had it on a loop,In combat dropping a weapon or having knocked from your hand would be rather inconvenient even more so for a Cavalry who would have to Dismount to retrieve it
They ruffians are very classy in thy way of using they weaponry To be precise they love thy classy gun name thy glock 19 It’s a very classy gun that loves to Ignite in a very classy position
Well on cavalry, s sword would typically get held to the side in a similar manner for much of the same reasons not to ruin the wrist. It could be somewhat of a hold-over in tradition in that sense as well, maybe just a little.
Finding things like this is quite interesting because it’s not like they had cameras and could snap shot it. the artist thought it noteworthy enough to paint or draw and I find stuff like this infinitely interesting
As far as I am aware there are even in modern times some arguments to holding the pistol at a cant (about 30°) when shooting one handed at close range. Also: Our modern media shows many depictions of people shooting at a 90° cant. How do you think future historians/reenactors will comment on that?
The sabre on the wrist by the way is a method since ancient times to keep swords at hand. Since in battle, people tend to move around a lot, they could be disarmed easily.
The lanyard used to keep the sabre of the russian husard is actually called, in french, a " dragonne ", which now basically means anything used to hold something hanging from the wrist ( such as a ... wiimote ? ). This name comes directly from the Dragons using them to hang both their sabre and pistol/carbine to their wrist to allow them to quickly swap weapons by basically dropping them.
Brandon, most of your reference pictures seem to show the mounted soldiers firing their pistols behind them. In doing this, the arm/hand seems more comfortable as the hand (pistol) is rotated as it swings to the rear. Also, if you tilt a flintlock, to the left, you will be causing the priming powder to pile up over the touchhole. This will cause a “fuse effect” which will lengthen your ignition time. Normally, this is not a desirable thing. But I don’t think that it really matters, in this case, as they would have a near zero chance of hitting anything anyway. There are just too many variables such as a galloping horse, heavy pistol, smooth bore, not aiming and lastly the fuse effect J You could experiment with your Bess' ignition time, the next time you are at the range. With my “flinters” I get almost instantaneous ignition by making certain that the priming powder is banked away from the touchhole. Keep up the good work!
The sabre hanging from the hussars wrist is the result of a wrist strap. How often it was done is debatable, but you could save a lot of time by just dropping the sabre and grabbing the pistol, as opposed to sheathing it, taking off the sword knot from your wrist, and then finally drawing your pistol. All about urgency.
My first theory was that it is a technique necessary to shoot behind the back. The second is that it is a more stable and comfortable method of shooting one-handed (even modern shooting techniques recommend shooting with a slight cant to the handgun). The third theory is its use as a rudimentary point-shooting system when engaging a target. Although there aren't any sights to aim down, aiming the firearm between the shooter's sight and the target is a reflexive point-shooting technique. I guess that under split-second conditions a rider must be able to see their target clearly before firing. The vertical motion induced by galloping would cause the shooter's gun and arm to obstruct vision of the target when aiming, and be difficult to adjust. However, aiming from the side would allow the gun to sway, but keep the target clear with the gun close enough to aim.
I remember seing a video by (I think) Matt Easton on Schola Gladiatoria about how cavalrymen would tilt their wrist in a similar way when riding with saber in hand for the same reason; to alleviate strain on the wrist.
Exactly! Especially when in full gallop, the weight and balance of the sword strains your wrist when held extended and edge-down, whereas it is bio-mechanically advantaged to hold the sword edge-up.
capandball had a video recently about the wheellock pistol, and as far as i can remember he goes over this topic as well. Its not only bout wheellock guns, actually its quite a long video on cavalry in the age of early firearms
In some modern schools of pistol shooting, when shooting one handed, the pistol is cocked 45 degrees from vertical, in an effort to better stabilize it and recover from recoil.
Also note that when they are holding it sideways, it's the whole hand that's rotated from the shoulder and not just the wrist and the forearm. Also note this is mostly done when extending the arm to one's side or towards the back.
I’d suggest that it might have to do with a theory of more sparks falling into the pan rather than the vertical grip with sparks bouncing all directions.
And the powder being next to the touchhole (I can't remember if it is called that on things that are not match lit....basically, the hole between the pan and the chamber). I suspect this would not be an issue with infantry, but could have a bigger impact (or be perceived by the users as having a bigger impact) with cavalry. No expert, just thoughts.
Was very common in the 1600s with harquebusiers and cuirassiers armed with wheel-lock pistols. Which due to the clockwork mechanism were I might imagine even heavier.
Minuteman With Attitude, Straight Outta Concord
*BILL!*
Bill, I implore you...
You implore me? You implore me? You always were one for fancy words. Well, things are different now, John. Now, I'm in charge! No more Dutch, and no more you. Implores. I, I implores you to go back and tell them to send someone just a little bit more impressive next time.
@@thevenator3955 imagine if he did and they sent an undead Arthur.
Another settlement needs your... no I can’t I can’t say it
"Disregard the constabulary. Acquire guineas". Pours out dram of sherry for all the homies.
i see he has adopted the new way from the colonies
bloody underrated comment
*_why am I imagining a Napoleonic era French officer with a sideways facing Shako holding his pistol sideways and telling a Russian officer to “pull up”_*
I know quite a few cavalry men liked to wear their caps somewhat cocked to the side for the rule of cool like the Don Cossacks. Think I’ve seen Napoleon of depictions of hussars/Chasseur à cheval doing a similar number with shakos.
@@lufsolitaire5351 Good god it's canon
I am thinking of a Napoleonic drive-by shooting lol
Uncle Rodger once said “Come up you French dogs, like men!”-Battle on Snowshoes.
espèce de chien, essaye de le tirer vers le haut
If thou art having lady problems, my sympathy goes out unto thee.
I hath 99 predicaments, alas, a wench is not among them.
it was also held like that cos the smoke would get in your eyes from horseback so sideways the smoke would flow past you
They hath watched me as I casually sauntered along, and they hath held some grudge against me.
They hath taken the guard duty unto themselves, alas, only to attempt to find me committing foul.
These old English translations of rap songs are beyond hilarious; they need a dedicated subreddit.
Aven Cannon I mean if we can find someone with an account over 30 days old and with enough karma it can be done
I’ll call it r/oldenglishrap
18th century bloods full color plate
Osprey men at arms bloods and crips 1760-1873
*Orchestral hip-hop intensifies*
I am not throwing away my shot
Could it also be so that powder doesn't get on the horse? I ride horses, and burning powder landing on a horse would spook the horse quite a bit.
With all due respect I think the horses you ride will be quite different to the ones during, say, the Napoleonic Wars. Remember that these were war horses, trained for battle, which is full of loud sounds, smoke and potentially cuts and bruises. I assume you don't need to train your horses to stay under control during a battle?
@@kapitankapital6580 lol yes, very true, I was thinking of that, but also, even soldiers want to keep their horses in good condition, so I thought maybe that's what they would do. I've never shot a flintlock weapon though, so idk much about the burning powder, it was a guess
They also used carbines on horseback. When you fires to an enemy in front of you, your pistol is next to the horses ears, I think the powder is the thing you get worse in second time
This is the first thing I thought. If the flash from the pan is anywhere near the horse's neck (hide or mane), the flare could actually singe the horse to the point of distraction. Unless of course you think you can train a horse to ignore being "on fire", which their reaction, during battle, would be something I'd rather watch than endure.
The last time I was this early Napoleon still had a shot at winning Waterloo.
🤣Unfortunately it was wet. Thankfully for my family though very distant grandfather fought there. My wife distant relative was at the battle as well he was in the Scottish Highlanders.
Hahahahah
21 savage pulling up on somebody back home in Britain.
Our gangsters are more advanced than that. They use revolvers chambered in .44 Russian. No im not even joking, the BBC did a Panorama documentary about it.
It's 21 Sir, he a knight now thanks to his 5' 5" ride or die the queen
Pistoliers, the original gangsters
do a ride-by, all pikemen are wankers.
Caracolling, is the proper word
making cavaliers nap in the dirt.
Looking flash, while dealing death from afar
tip my piece sideways for this is war!
Bars
Have at thee, my fellow person of African origins! Hyaaa!
I see ye follow the orange man bad narrative
What would be the 18th century term for *GANGSTA* ?
Blackguard, perhaps?
Brandon F. Perhaps. Or the spaniard term could be used. However I don’t think it would be suitable for 21st century ethics.
cemo1999 Scoundrel? Rogue? Cad? All could be applicable, I suppose.
Rapscallion
Taffer!
Maybe this "dangling" saber was some sort of safety for not losing one's saber while charging or whatever, similar to how snowboarders or surfers attach their boards to their feet. Just a thought
When the blade enters the bpdy of a soldier on foot, calvermen would "drop" their saber ro keep from breaking their wrists. So the depiction was probably just somebody just resorting to their sidearm just after running aomebody threw...
@@raybuckler1045 yeah but hussars wouldnt really be out there stabbing people, they use sabers to hack, slash and cut, precisely to avoid the sword getting stuck in somebody
@@Cyprian96 still if itwas a charge it would be a thrust not a hack or slash.
@@raybuckler1045 Oh really? You know this how?
It is indeed a safety device to keep from losing the sword, similar to lanyards for pistols. The use of a loop or "sword knot" was common to keep from losing one's sword or sabre. You stuck your hand through the loop, twisted it once or twice, and grasped the hilt. It gave enough slack to use the sword but if you dropped it it would not fall beyond your ability to retrieve it. Virtually every military sword I've seen from the late 1700s onwards had some hole or opening in the guard or knuckle bow to string it through, both originals and reproductions. By the 1800s all swords tend to have the openings. I've cut with reproductions using a sword knot and it does not get in the way of using the sword. But I imagine it would be very useful on horseback esp. if the weapon was jarred loose from your grip.
Regarding the debate below re: cutting vs. thrusting it depends on the type of sword, type of unit, and time period. Some soldiers were taught to "give point" and extract the thrust on the running horse, and carried straighter swords more convenient for this, others more curved cutting weapons (which of course could still thrust but were not as designed for it). Generally more thrust centric swords became the norm in the very late 1800s and early 1900s. My copy of the US sabre manual from 1914 deals more with thrusts, but John Musgrave Waite's sword and sabre manual from the 1800's is for a more cut-and-thrust style. Of course the 1914 manual is for cavalry as no one else still carried swords by then, Waite deals more with fighting on foot.
Regarding the angle of pistol shooting, most replica's I've handled (never fortunate enough to handle original 200 year old pistols sadly) have around 12 inch barrels and very shallow grips making them as Brandon mentions tip heavy but also the grip angles make them prone to aim high (perhaps this was to counteract the weight and balance?). Either way given the shallow grip means unless one makes a deliberate effort to correct it you could end up shooting high, perhaps the side grip was an attempt to correct this for snap shooting a horseback.
Actually, in this very video, you had a second image that showed a saber being secured to the wrist while firing the pistol.
The french charge of the square, the same calvaryman who is shooting his pistol, has his saber attached to his wrist.
I noticed that too. I understand it is the original purpose of the sword knot.
Perhaps a more economical slashing technique?
I believe it's just to avoid dropping the saber which would be very inconvenient to pick up in the heat of battle. I recall hearing this from a cavalry re-enactor that I'm familiar with.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis If one is right-handed, one fires his pistol as he rides across the the enemy's line, holsters it, and(if he has only one pistol) catches up his saber to continue the battle
Sakari and John George, I heard the same explanations from a re-enactor at Fort Tajone south of Bakersfield Ca.
Napoleon was from da hood confirmed
Not just Napoleon, don’t forget about the noble English officers!
The French Revolution was a prank gone wrong in da hood.
Two uploads in a day! Well done my good man!
In fairness, the AC3 upload was a livestream from a few days ago!
Still, very well done.
You should do an analysis of the Victorian era troops in Shogun 2's fall of the samurai expansion
1:16 if this guy would rob my house i swear i would give him all my tea
I held something heavy following along to experience it as you described it
exactly true, holding the piece like a conventional pistol hurts almost straight away
This is why experimental history is so exciting, sometimes you find small things that make perfect sense and give you a window into the life of someone living in the 18th century
Late to the party, but: They are holding their pistols in the same way they would hold their swords extended for a thrust. That might just be muscle memory, but it also has the advantage that with the wrist held horizontal one is much less likely to get an over-extension injury to the wrist and tendons - horses move up and down as well as forward and side to side, after all. Swords, if extended horizontally for the thrust, were always held with the knuckles to the sides or even pointing up to ensure adequate flexibility to prevent injury, and the "side grip" with a pistol is just a natural extension of this practice. With some of the early long-barrelled nearly straight-stocked wheellock pistols that might have been the only way to shoot them.
Another superb video Mr Brandon. Your videos have a special interest for me due to the fact that my grandfather was in the grenadier guards also was a heavy and light machine gun instructor. He sadly passed away January 2016. Thank you for your great work and bringing brilliant fun to the history of British military.
Brandon, regarding the dangling sabre in the image, it is indeed a safety device to keep from losing the sword, similar to lanyards for pistols in later periods. The use of a loop or "sword knot" was common to keep from losing one's sword or sabre. You stuck your hand through the loop, twisted it once or twice, and grasped the hilt. It gave enough slack to use the sword but if you dropped it it would not fall beyond your ability to retrieve it. Many military swords I've seen from the late 1700s onwards had some hole or opening in the guard or knuckle bow to string it through, both originals and reproductions. By the 1800s all swords tend to have the openings. I've cut with reproductions using a sword knot and it does not get in the way of using the sword. But I imagine it would be very useful on horseback esp. if the weapon was jarred loose from your grip.
Regarding the angle of pistol shooting, most replica's I've handled (never fortunate enough to handle original 200 year old pistols sadly) have around 12 inch barrels and very shallow grips making them as you mention tip heavy but also the grip angles make them prone to aim high (perhaps this was to counteract the weight and balance?). Never shot one yet (looking to get into black powder tho!) but given the shallow grip it seems unless one makes a deliberate effort to correct it you could end up shooting high, so, perhaps the side grip was an attempt to correct this for snap shooting a horseback, not just a comfort thing?
Nepoleonic wiimote strap
Brandon, this style of grip can be found as far back as the early 17th Century and is very common in paintings from the 30 & 80 years wars. It may well be even older but there is less in the way of highly detailed military paintings from the 16th Century. The main reason for the grip was that it was thought to reduce the risk of a misfire, also pistols were carried with the butt pointing forward in the new style of holsters which made the pistol turned sideways grip a very natural one when drawing the pistol. (Earlier holster used by the German reiters were slung sideways across the neck rather than on the sides.)
Having the saber hanging from the wrist using the sword-knot was a common way to kept it within easy reach when using a pistol, carbine pr doing something else with your hand near the enemy. Polish instructions for hussars mention their use in 1704.
Greetings Brandon. I am somewhat ignorant of the British army's tactics, uniforms, organization, equipment etc. specifically during the American War of Independence. I was wondering if there were any sources (esp. books) that you could recommend on these topics, as you are quite knowledgeable on them.Thanks for the help!
X SHALL GIVETH TO THEE
Jolly good video and THANK you for not using the term "frizzen " in reference to any part of an 18th C English pistol.
3:11 Matt Easton at scholagladiatoria talks about sword knots sometimes but I forget which episodes
You keep the pistol sideways form horseback the same way you keep a sword sideways when on horseback, to not hurt your hand when the horse is mowing but not in galop.
Lovely video, and it gave me an idea. These early riflemen had a variety of firing positions that have since fallen out of use in favour of the modern three: standing, kneeling, and prone. Why not make a video about these.
So the sword hanging from the wrist.. I think is pretty normal, cooz it then will be difficult putting it back, then grabbing your pistol.. it’s then also very useful so you would not drop it especially when on horse back.. so very cool..
I think osprey’s ‘napoleonic light cavalry tactics’ book has a bit more information on hanging savers from the wrist when using a firearm
Another curious way to fire a pistol: straight up in a duel against Aaron Burr
You spelled duel wrong.
Brian Wyters oops
@@brianwyters2150 this comment is dated
Is that a Hamilton reference?
Hamilton had it coming homie
You actually don't want the powder in the pan to be right against the touch hole. When it is it ends up having a fuze like effect, slowing the ignition. A side by side test was very illuminating for me.
Spit balliing ideas here, but two related thoughts come to mind. 1) you commented on the ergonomics of holding it like that with it's weight, adding onto that even with nothing in your hand if you were to point at something, that is the more comfortable way to hold your hand. If you are not going to be aiming down the barrel anyway, you may as well be comfortable. 2) When I was in the infantry, and doing instinctive shooting, I would (and honestly still tend to shoot like this) have my left hand supporting the rifle in such a way that my index finger is pointing down the barrel. It is faster to point at a close target than to align the target, your sights and your eye. While riding rapidly along it would make sense in my mind to point at a target with the trigger finger in a comfortable manner, and squeeze.
0:30 17th century drive by
From my experience, it is better to not allow the priming charge to contact the vent as much as is possible. It tends to create a "fuse." I never fill my pan more than 1/3 full and try to keep it to the outside of the pan. Once I started doing this, the reliability factor increased dramatically. I suspect the reason for that illustration was to " look cool" if I could use a modern phrase, to catch the reader's eye and make him want to read the book. It would be a graphical equivalent to " clickbait. I have no doubt that pistols were indeed fired as depicted, in combat emergencies, but I can't believe it was standard practice. Very best regatds
That is very interesting! I always tend to prime towards the vent thinking it would be better that way. I'll have to do a little experimenting with your approach! Though I'm definitely with you in not priming more than a third or so of the pan! Too many people overload it and get way too large a blast in the face.
pretty much the same reason you hold a saber sideways or "upside down" when charging on horseback.
I'm thinking that sabres were held sideways like that while charging. It would be natural for a sabreur to adopt the same grip when holding a pistol.
Since the examples you show are horse soldiers, and one is charging, and one is deffo a sabreur, I'm going with that.
Some other commenters agree with me, so they must be right.
Adding that a sideways grip might make it easier to adjust aim while pressing home a charge into a line of troops. A vertical grip would require moving the entire arm side-to-side to shift aim, while a sideways grip would allow a wrist movement without risking injury from recoil.
I'll hold my flintlock sidewards and shout 'West Side!' as I ride past.
*West Side of what?*
West Side of East Sussex I suppose.
This video is goanna blowup. I can tell.
The russian hussar fashiones a saber knot dear Brandon. It kept the trooper from loosing his main weapon and enabled hin to just let it dangle to fire a carbine, pistol or to read orders, maps and even to train a spyglass.
Quite common and a lot more practical them sheathing the sword for every minor task.
Brandon’s heck eating smile is the second best thing about this
Oh... Okay.... interesting.
About the hanging sabre from the wrist, it was common for horsemen since like the late 15th century lacing the sword around to wrist, in order to a) not lose it after the first contact of a charge b) have the hands free for other motivations (holding/using/loading a gun or simply read or holding orders ecc). Unfortunately I can't rember the technical name of the lacing in English (in italian is the "dragona", obviously alluding to the dragoons) but it does appear quite often on swordsmanship tratises. Also, someone suggests that adding that much lenght of sill and metallic laces could in some ways protect from minor cuts.
Silk* in the last paragraphs. Sorry for the lack of perfect lexicon, I'm a tad bit rusty
Nice video! I have also read about this subject a little bit so here you go.
This was also quite common in the thirty years war, likely even more so than in the 18th century because the powder was less reliable. Therefore it would help to tilt the powder closer to the touchhole.
@john Mullholand depends how much you tilt it, but i see your point.
" modern gangster styles and what not " I find this phrase violently hilarious
I was about to write cavalry vs ground and then at the end you brought it up. Great minds and all that😊
Regarding the dangling saber, as far as I have seen, that is pretty common for Cavalrymen who carry pistols. Funnily enough the depiction of the french cuirassier depicts the saber being hung from the sword knot in the same way.
It works quite well and leaves quick acces to the sword.
We also have a lot earlier sourcrs for the same sort of idea. E.g. turkish cavalrymen used to hold the saber in their palm while using a bow and drawing the bowstring
It is also derived from the way that wheellock pistols were held back in the 16th and 17th Centuries, both on horsevback and on foot. The main reason was, interestingly, to ensure that the sparks generated by the wheellock's serrated wheel against the iron pyrates in the cock's jaws fell against the powder stacked against the touch hole, enabling a more reliable ignition of the main charge. Wheellock pistol butts were even designed to enforce this grip, which also made for a far more steady and secure hold onto the pistol.
Tools of killing needed to become a bit more ergonomical for sure.
😉
Btw. the saber being secured by a piece of cloth (by cavalry soldiers at least) was a common occurrence in my opinion. I'm pretty sure Matt Easton from Scholargladiatora once made a video about this matter (i'm sorry i can't find it right now).
having a loop on a saber seems to be a good idea, making it much harder to drop, as well as allowing a quick pistol draw.
I noticed in the painting at 4:07, the French Cuirassier is also dangling his sword from a lanyard on his wrist. Interesting that. As you brought up 'horse furniture' it seems like another unusual topic for a vid. (Unless, of course, you've already done one. 🤔)
Loving the videos old chap.
Also happened upon another picture depicting a dragoon holding his pistol like that:
www.militaryheritage.com/images/HeavyDragoonPistol_1755_Access_Heritage.PNG
This grip reminds me of how cavalrymen would point their sabres in most period paintings, not pointing straight, but rather hanging upside down and towards the front. With both a sabre and a pistol, you have weapons that are rather front-heavy, and if you point them forward the way you would imagine doing it on foot, it does leave your wrist bent close to its limit. On foot that's barely an issue and at most just a discomfort, but if you're riding on horse at full speed, that's a rather rough ride, and it's not hard to imagine that any particularly strong bump might upset your grip, or worse, injure your wrist. Holding the gun sideways while galloping would give you more room for your wrist to move with the ups and downs of the ride.
I think it may be a side effect of delivering pistol fire to the rear of you whilst passing, which was a widely practiced tactic for cavalrymen. I suspect it's just the most natural way to draw and fire while sort of reaching behind your back, and as you say aim isn't as much a concern as getting a quick shot off in passing.
A pedantic upload and a analysis upload in one day? Christmas come early!
Holy Jesus in heaven! You’ve been on a roll lately with the videos Brandon! Keep it up
Scholagladitoria my have an answer for this. He has a few videos on body mechanics and, as far as I understand it, when the arm is extended it is a much more natural position for the wrist to take if it is cocked toward the inside of the body. Think of the cavalry giving point on horseback with swords, they flip the wrist because it allows for less stress on the wrist and easier extraction from the target. Interesting video.
I love this shit--things that seem anachronistic at first glance but are actually well-supported as being period-authentic for the time. Like Venetian sunglasses, or steam-powered cars.
That moment when the chad Dragoon pulls up blasting The rapscallion, the murderer and the apothecary.
Ah this must be how 21 savage rolls
I imagine that in addition to keeping the pistol stable in the hand, that the sideways or half sideways position also very importantly reduced powder sloshing out of the priming pan if the cover was poorly fitting.
Hi. I'm renactmenof XVII centre rajtar. When you fire from horseback you should hold gun is slight angle to make sure that wind at gallop won't blow off flame of your powder away from the main charge. You have to also keep in mind that if lock is even slightly loose then during ride some of your powder may be gone so flame won't be so strong as you may expect shooting as a footman.
There is also a painting of Monsieur Henri de la Rochejaqulein holding his pistol sideways. He was a leader of the Vendee royalist peasants during the French Revolution.
I suspect the dangling saber is because a proper cavalryman ought to have his wrist through the lanyard to retain his weapon. Perhaps he saw an enemy who was an immediate threat but a little too far to saber, dropped his saber, and drew his pistol.
Seems to be the same reason for the "hanging" (point down) grip with sabres, pointing a heavy sword or flintlock while on a galloping horse can be very hard on the wrist.
In my group we angle our rifle locks to protect the man to our right, but also as we found angling the lock also helps with sparks landing in the pan.
Today I needeth not useth mine own musket
Twas a fine day
-Sir Cube of Ice
Good video very informative I appreciate these a lot
To my knowlegde it was done to make the pistol fire more reliably, something that was done already with wheellock pistols in the 17th or 16th century. Especially with all the shaking around on a horse you want the priming powder as close to the touch hole as possible. It might not be as fast which might be more important in a duel though
The sideways grip probably came from how a sabre is pointed on horseback. Cavalry would turn their swords to point them to prevent them wobbling up and down as the horse moved. It's reasonable that they would do the same with a pistol for the same reason.
A thing about flintlock pistols back in the day, was that the igniter hole wasn't above the pan but right at the bottom of it. Meaning that it would act like a fuse more than a flame source to ignite powder. The other thing was consistency and quality of powder. turning the pistol sideways may guarantee it sets off the chamber charge. Since we're talking soldiers here who would be out in all weathers. there's not always a guarantee that our powder will ignite.
I imagine the Cavalry man with the sabre dangling from his wrist had it on a loop,In combat dropping a weapon or having knocked from your hand would be rather inconvenient even more so for a Cavalry who would have to Dismount to retrieve it
4:03 Brandon the French cavalry man also has his saber tied to his wrist.
maybe gangsters are more classy then we thought
They ruffians are very classy in thy way of using they weaponry
To be precise they love thy classy gun name thy glock 19
It’s a very classy gun that loves to Ignite in a very classy position
Brilliant! that's a nice little detail to put in the book. Any more info you could share about the dragoons would be much appreciated
Well on cavalry, s sword would typically get held to the side in a similar manner for much of the same reasons not to ruin the wrist. It could be somewhat of a hold-over in tradition in that sense as well, maybe just a little.
Finding things like this is quite interesting because it’s not like they had cameras and could snap shot it. the artist thought it noteworthy enough to paint or draw and I find stuff like this infinitely interesting
For the Ladz in da tenement are always firm.
(Cuz da boyz in da hood are always hard)
As far as I am aware there are even in modern times some arguments to holding the pistol at a cant (about 30°) when shooting one handed at close range.
Also: Our modern media shows many depictions of people shooting at a 90° cant. How do you think future historians/reenactors will comment on that?
The sabre on the wrist by the way is a method since ancient times to keep swords at hand. Since in battle, people tend to move around a lot, they could be disarmed easily.
The lanyard used to keep the sabre of the russian husard is actually called, in french, a " dragonne ", which now basically means anything used to hold something hanging from the wrist ( such as a ... wiimote ? ).
This name comes directly from the Dragons using them to hang both their sabre and pistol/carbine to their wrist to allow them to quickly swap weapons by basically dropping them.
Brandon, most of your reference pictures seem to show the mounted soldiers firing their pistols behind them. In doing this, the arm/hand seems more comfortable as the hand (pistol) is rotated as it swings to the rear. Also, if you tilt a flintlock, to the left, you will be causing the priming powder to pile up over the touchhole. This will cause a “fuse effect” which will lengthen your ignition time. Normally, this is not a desirable thing. But I don’t think that it really matters, in this case, as they would have a near zero chance of hitting anything anyway. There are just too many variables such as a galloping horse, heavy pistol, smooth bore, not aiming and lastly the fuse effect J
You could experiment with your Bess' ignition time, the next time you are at the range.
With my “flinters” I get almost instantaneous ignition by making certain that the priming powder is banked away from the touchhole.
Keep up the good work!
The sabre hanging from the hussars wrist is the result of a wrist strap. How often it was done is debatable, but you could save a lot of time by just dropping the sabre and grabbing the pistol, as opposed to sheathing it, taking off the sword knot from your wrist, and then finally drawing your pistol.
All about urgency.
My first theory was that it is a technique necessary to shoot behind the back. The second is that it is a more stable and comfortable method of shooting one-handed (even modern shooting techniques recommend shooting with a slight cant to the handgun). The third theory is its use as a rudimentary point-shooting system when engaging a target. Although there aren't any sights to aim down, aiming the firearm between the shooter's sight and the target is a reflexive point-shooting technique. I guess that under split-second conditions a rider must be able to see their target clearly before firing. The vertical motion induced by galloping would cause the shooter's gun and arm to obstruct vision of the target when aiming, and be difficult to adjust. However, aiming from the side would allow the gun to sway, but keep the target clear with the gun close enough to aim.
I remember seing a video by (I think) Matt Easton on Schola Gladiatoria about how cavalrymen would tilt their wrist in a similar way when riding with saber in hand for the same reason; to alleviate strain on the wrist.
Exactly! Especially when in full gallop, the weight and balance of the sword strains your wrist when held extended and edge-down, whereas it is bio-mechanically advantaged to hold the sword edge-up.
capandball had a video recently about the wheellock pistol, and as far as i can remember he goes over this topic as well. Its not only bout wheellock guns, actually its quite a long video on cavalry in the age of early firearms
Magnificent video!
0:07 OH SHIT BRANDON HAS GONE FULL GANGSTA!!!
Shout out to Frederick the Original Gangsta.
In some modern schools of pistol shooting, when shooting one handed, the pistol is cocked 45 degrees from vertical, in an effort to better stabilize it and recover from recoil.
Also note that when they are holding it sideways, it's the whole hand that's rotated from the shoulder and not just the wrist and the forearm. Also note this is mostly done when extending the arm to one's side or towards the back.
I’d suggest that it might have to do with a theory of more sparks falling into the pan rather than the vertical grip with sparks bouncing all directions.
And the powder being next to the touchhole (I can't remember if it is called that on things that are not match lit....basically, the hole between the pan and the chamber). I suspect this would not be an issue with infantry, but could have a bigger impact (or be perceived by the users as having a bigger impact) with cavalry. No expert, just thoughts.
Was very common in the 1600s with harquebusiers and cuirassiers armed with wheel-lock pistols. Which due to the clockwork mechanism were I might imagine even heavier.
I love your channel keep up the great
Coming STRAIGHT OUT OF YORKTOWN
"It's not mine so don't blame me" LOL! Like something not being your fault means you're not going to get blamed on the Internet!
Yo Brandon about to pull up with the flintlock.