As far as Michael Jackson goes, he learned the moves and executed them, plain and simple. That's how good he is. Now teaching/credit issue, when he said "Black kids from the ghettos", that's the ultimate compliment. Because any OG from Oakland to Chicago to Philly will tell you that THEY invented those moves. So MJ gave credit to the unknown cats who never made on TV. At least EB made it on TV.
Obi Smalls And Taco is the most humble guy about it aswell, i had the pleasure of meeting taco at his house in long beach last year and he had nothing but good things to say about Michael Jackson
Thats not true at all! They give props to Taco BIG time! These guys are my teachers & I take their classes no matter where they are on this planet. They always give props to Taco.
@@lissy-g-dance Okay, well I am talking about public. They use him as an afterthought. Everyone know Taco's dance style was the MOST attractive out of all of them, yet they make out they were greater or hold more importance. There's a reason why Michael used Taco as his creative consultant after 1983 - 2000 and not them.
I can see that there are people who think that Pop Stars are Pioneers. About 98% of the time that's not the case. A lot of pioneers don't get the recognition that they deserve. these guys are speaking the truth about their contribution to this culture. MJ was a Student.
Tracy Thomas Michael never said he was the one that came up with his dance moves. He always said that some of his inspirations came from Soul Train dancers as well as kids who lived in rural ghettos who were often breakdancing and b-boying in the streets of L.A. and New York. He often cited celebrities such as James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Sammy Davis Jr. and a few others as his sole dance influences. The Electric Boogaloos have nothing to complain about. Michael paid them their money for showing him some moves and that was that. He wasn't obligated to promote them like he was a salesman for them because both parties got something out of it. MJ was a student but he graduated in the top of his class and became very creative by adding different dance elements he learned and observed to form his *OWN* style of dancing
paidenthusiast I totally agree. These dudes just sound bitter, imo. Michael never took any credit of the dancing he was doing, & he never had to promote these guys....HE WAS ALREADY PAYING THEM. lol
Zillz82 Exactly my bro. I can see if these guys were teaching Michael for free then yeah, he should mention them just to get them clientele but they got paid so I really don't see the problem or why they're so bitter. They act as if they were doing Michael a favor which they clearly weren't since they were making money for their services
You´re right at this point. Suga said they teach Michael to do the Robot (at 0:07), but we can see Michael at 15 or 17 years old, performing robot with J5.
For all the folks who think the boogaloos are lying, check out MJs earlier dance moves. No doubt Mike could dance, but there is a pronounced shift in his style of movement at one point in the 80s, and I believe it's due to their training. Mikes signature move prior to that was his spinning and a few "James Briwn"moves and yes, I HEARD the infamous "children of ghetto remark he made and was shocked. Mike even gave props to Fred Astaire for influencing his dancing but left the Boogaloos hanging.
There really was footage of Electric Boogaloo doing the backslide (or moonwalk) on the Soul Train Awards in the 70's. Michael first did his famous moonwalk at Motown 25 in 1983. It's obvious that MJ did in fact took moves here and there from other greats, and Electric Boogaloo were no exception. According to "The Magic and the Madness" an biograpghy about MJ by J. Randy Taraborrelli, a dancer by the name of "Casper" gave MJ private lessons on how to do the moonwalk.
I started dancing inspired by MJ and when I got to know what real popping,locking and hip hop were,I realised he used some moves from those styles,he just did them his way,which made him unique.Even though I love MJ,I agree that he didn't acknowledge the EBs as they deserved.Yeah,he didn't learn the robot from them,it was a popular social dance style back then,but popping is much more than that and the EBs know best,coz they developed it and worked as hard as MJ to be the best of the best!PEACE!
Michael Jackson was not a popper, he had poppin routines in Captain Eo and Smooth Criminal, that was about it. The solos he did for Billie Jean were mainly Taco, Shrimp and Daniel moves. But MJ never consistently flexed his muscles to the beat as a popper would in his commercial videos or stage performances. This deliberate
Michael was better though.The one part about the kick really showed Micheal's genius. He took something that even his teachers disregarded and made it an iconic dance move known and loved around the world. Michael took everything and made it better. Michael had an incredible ability to learn everything, from tap and jazz to popping and locking, mixing it all together to make something that was PURELY AMAZING. He never limited himself, that is why he was truly a better dancer than his teachers.
They are part of the Electric Boogaloos, Poppin' Pete was in it from the start, I believe, and Skeeter Rabbit (R.I.P.) and Suga Pop a little later. This group was solely responsible with Boogaloo Sam in creating this dance style. Trust me, they don't NEED the recognition, because they are recognized globally by the hip hop community and most definitely are legends. You wanna kno what legends don't do? Legends don't receive help and go around acting like they didn't receive any.
This is such a touchy situation, its like because it became famous through MJ that their is some animosity. I mean he worked with them, paid them, and used them multiple times. The only thing MJ could of done was mentioned them by name. They act like MJ didn't dance or wasn't famous for dancing before he worked with them, its like they want all the credit for MJ's dancing ability
wat i have noticed is that michael will try to take a move and make it his own. slim the robot probably did teach mike that. but michael's robot was bananas! he took it and made it his own. compare and contrast the two, they really dont look similar, mike had alot of footwork. i just think its cool that he even worked the legendary boogaloos
...and even these guys probably created many moves from scratch, BUT I would bet that they were inspired by things they saw too. In my early attempts to breakdance in 1982-83, I tried to do the moves I saw and some developed into something else, and some people thought I "invented" a move here and there. They were derivatives, like a lot of performers. Jackson did that a lot, borrowed and made it better or different, AND invented his own stuff. All should try to site where they learned it from
The Jackson's knew how to dance already...Michael may have not been in the "Hood" to catch every dance that was going around back at that time that is for sure...But, know one thing about Mr. Michael Jackson he was very professional and a creative being at right, so he did seek to find new adds to his performances...that is what made him who he was...Michael Jackson...And he did always say he learn some of those dances from neighborhood dancers and he was proud of that...he thought that was the truly unique elements of some of his creative expressions while performing..with that said...in NO way was he suppose to take care of these folks for the rest of their natural born LIFE...no baby come on now you had to work as hard as he did...and he started at an early age mastering his craft....Michael Jackson was a kind man, but he was not a.....FOOL on that level about this subject here.....Oh and Jeffrey Daniel of Shalamar said he taught Michael..the Moonwalk which is really the backslide...Yep that is what he said..so now how many folk he had to keep saying thank you too...well because everyone knows he was a nice man and would not have taken advantage of them....and they know that...they did what they did...and He was Michael Jackson pretty much end of story right there..........
djmaneone this was filmed in Philadelphia at the a Annual Rennie Harris Legends of Hip Hop Festival, I was filming the same footage right next to the person who filmed this. I still have somewhere on a DV Tape.
I understand these guys are mad that MJ didnt give them all the credit they deserve, but thats like a history teacher going on tv talking about a student that they had that is know famous becuase he knows a lot about history and not crediting the teacher for his success. these guys are amazing dancers but they need to realize that in life you cant expect to be thanked for everything, espicially in the world of entertainment
The “kick & grab” came from Bob Fosse, Michael even admitted that. He was taught the robot by Robert Sheilds, in 1973, who also choreographed the Dancin’ Machine routine. I have spoken to Robert and confirmed this.
@pamdanceehh I agree. Michael certainly brought plenty of his own invention to dance (mostly in HOW he did the moves more often than purely creating them) since he honed and practiced his ass off... but everyone learns from others, no matter how god-like some want to believe their favorite artists are.Things like the robot, etc... were done by entertainers not even dancing-- think mimes, and other variety shows long before funk styles. It all is sampled and changed a bit and can look great.
I think no one person invents all the dances around today...but certain individuals actully put a dance together, that transcends a little party move and becomes something that a large number of people begin to get into... its what i call the Big Bang Theory...simply a moment when something becomes bigger than its self and all manner of people get into it, it may be Music Art Politics whatever but someone or a group are resonsible for that sudden surge of that art form or political idea..
These dude jus tellin it like it is, MJ could hav given credit 2 these guy's but chose not 2 so he can hav them all 2 himself, that way he maintains his superiority. I feel privileged learning the truth behind the showbiz, obviously no 1 can question Mj's dancing ability & creativity, but the greatest talent always come from the street culture.
a small group of guys, creating a dance and influencing millions today in dance styles, that's legendary. hip hop music, to even clothing. they were poor and decided to use their mom's cleaning rags as bandanas, and now that is a million dollar industry, just the bandana alone. To the fashion, entertainment industry, and underground culture, from a bunch of kids from the ghetto, spreading that out to places like Denmark, and worldwide, you do the math.
@abbeykroeter Well said! I have tried to tell many friends very much the same thing when they try to argue the justification in worshiping a few artists. I sighted mimes, and some entertaining dancers from the silent era that did some amazing yet odd work, but most people just don't seem to have time to believe the "conglomerate of talents" phenomenon as I call it... collecting the what you like, working into something solid on it's own. If anyone asks, give props to the ones that inspired it.
yes that was my point aswell dance coz you wanna dance not only if people mention your name if they get fame. so many good dancers you see on youtube. so now if michael went on stage for the this is it concert he would now have to have a 5 minute speech at the end of the concert reading names of everyone he has seen dancing or els thay may think he has stollen a move or start crying about how he didnt mention them.
That's because JT, Usher, Chris Brown, all agree, and say, Michael Jackson inspired them and the way they dance. They gave proper credit and named who it was, that's the difference.
@KingofPepsi You can find moves like the moonwalk in tap dance routines filmed before 1950. Look up "first moonwalk" youtube.. it will be entertaining. Some of the footage is quite old.
No. Bob Fosse stole it from Black America and Michael reclaimed what was part of his culture. Research John W. Bubbles and Bill Bailey... Bob Fosse would dance in nightclubs when he was a teenager, were he learned how to copy Black Americans dancing...
@breaklock Well "plenty" doesn't mean 100% anyway; I am thinking some of the panache Michael put on some moves are things he worked on, some copied from your reference and others, and some came up as new while practicing. I will look into Pop N Taco though thank you for the reference! I am not surprised if there is one more out there like hm that Michael learned from; and I'll enjoy seeing any of the pioneers if you remember some other names for me.
clearly thats why i said "p.s." i was referring to something i read one of them made saying they created the moonwalk - read my other comments - it would be ridiculous for him to name off all the different dance influences he had- watch his concerts he does a mix of - tap, his own style footwork, spins, grabbing the crotch jumping on his toes, locking, robotic, james brown etc., not too mention it was jeff daniels and popn taco who worked with him most on his poppin type moves-sour grapes
These comments are insane. Michael Jackson's genius was his ability to take bits and pieces of different dance genres and create a style all his own. And by the way, there is nobody out there today who looks anything like Michael when he dances (not Usher, Justin Timberlake, etc.). That's why they will always say that nobody MOVES LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON.
As for hitting, that's different from the robot, hitting unlike the robot, is not just stopping your body, but tensing your muscles at that stop to create a more vibrating hitting effect. Hitting came after the robot. So both hitting and boogalooing which these guys created, is not the robot.
I think they're just tired of Michael gettin credit for every damn move. The great dancers are the ones who created the moves...If you watch mike 98% of his moves are lifted ( taught..whatever). Props to him for being a haed worker and fast learner though.
I see your points there but i ment on the Elite side is that they are the Elite of boogaloo. Back then there were alot of popping styles and many of them were real good. Plus no one can confirm who created popping not the word but popping and who was actually the best at what and all. Other then Boogaloo.
Well in terms of Micheal Jackson diresctly learning off the EB's i don't think we will ever find out the exact truth but all i know, Micheal Jackson's moves are truly original. If he learnt that stuff of EB's it wouldn't matter cause it's nothing like the world has ever seen anyway. Maybe he should have credited the EB's but i don't think it matters that much.
I def . agree with you man, the thing these guys were missing was financial and business education(but many were literally teenagers - so how can u blame em?). i was listening to an interview with Shrimp and they completely screwed him over with the contract to the Breakin series so dude is getting no royalties. u right - fact is many of these guys are legends and would gain a bigger following and have a lot more fans if they were more positive! either way i love the underground culture
Michaael Jackson was "famous" way before he learned from EB's. Do you forget J5 and the Off the Wall album. IF anything it was thriller and beat it video that catapulted him to ICON status and the KING OF POP... read my other comments he learned from MANY diff. dancers. Let's not forget that he also is a singer and people mostly listen to his music thats why artists are measured by album sales not on dance moves done
i didnt grow up in the 70's but from my research on music it looks like a lot of people had similar styles and great moves back then and i dont think they refernce each other at the end of there videos so why should michael be the only one who has to do it. simply put its just people trying to jump on someone that has fame so that hopefully they get fame aswell without putting in the hard work
they said it in other interviews - hence the "p.s." - they need to stop complaining if they don't need it. your opinion on EB's > MJ. they sound just like bitter men to me. I greatly respect their dancing but they need to stop hating on someone who they accepted money from on multiple occassions... there will and are millions around the world listening to MJ and they will continue to listen to MJ. man is a genius
True but dont mistaken that the E.B.s were in 3 different types of groups. Im not sure on dates and all and true about the lack of info matching up. But before the E.B.'s there was something like Electric boogaloo's and lockers. They had about 2 lockers in the group. ill check the dates and all later.
Michael was 15yrs old when Michael started Popin. But when Michael was 11yrs old he was already a singing and dancing genius. These Electric Boogaloo guys are talkin crap about Michael Jackson.
MJ dance is focused more on acting and miming ,old-fashioned entertainment(jazz-dance), than on an acrobatic dance style(popping,locking).He said it himself..he doesn't do that much of it anyway.... I mean yeah..he could have mentioned them somewhere...but it's already an old story and people interested in MJ know who inspired and taught him dance techniques.
they taught mj some choreography that was used in captain eo and thats about it really mj learnt alot from jeffer daniel and pop n taco but even at that the proof is in the way mj dances its like 20 per cent of mjs whole dance arsenal and this moonwalk business aka backslide is overhyped i taught myself how to do backslide lool but they go on like its the hardest dance move ever. Mj could do far more complicated steps than the backslide
@1980Triumph The EBs made up popping triumpth. "MJ was a noted dancer years before working with them. " true, but not in the realm of Popping.. MJ was taught by the Lockers, and got moves from James Brown
Michael Jackson was fucking crazy, and these dudes expecting him to give them credit is fucking crazy. Crazy people do all kinds of crazy shit. Michael Jackson was crazy talented and put on some crazy shows and entertained the shit out of the world, but he was crazy.
they're not stuck in the past, they still teach and influence, and can take out anyone today. With breaking, guys get older, can't move as fast or do the acrobats, but with popping, the OGS still come out strong and destroy, and because of the years, they have more vocabulary and technical moves. Even david elsewhere wouldn't say the crap you've said.
Uh no, I didn't say it died, I said it died out "in the media." It did die out in the media, after the craze for it in the 80's. Since we're talking about what's true art, and what's just crowd pleasing for the general spectator, I was referring to why that whole focus on big dynamic moves is nothing new,
bring in Elsewhere, he's a different form of dancing, in the boogaloo style, he would lose to them. His style is a different form of animation, movement, and different foundation. They dont' need to prove who they are, they've already done that, by creating a dance that MILLIONS of people do. influencing millions, that's enough proof of their talent already.
Back in England we heard about popping thing way back when....i myself have made some new moves in todays modern world...boogaloo sam did not invent all the moves but he did merge several ideas with help into a form that we know today...Mj had media working for him, but he should have given credit to boogaloo sam...i mean with that input the cradle of most western dance that has a pop or wave just would not be there... imagine no BBoy culture.
forms, may find some things looking "cool," and crowd pleasing, but they for the most part wouldn't judge it better than an experienced person and expert in the actual art form or sport. So what are you judging this by?
and u know what u r right everyone has their own version...I have heard Shrimp praise MJ but then also put him down in other interviews. And yes although my knowledge is through the internet concerning old school cats influence on MJ there are so many that say they taught MJ this and that, that I know many dancers worked with him and it would be stupid for him to name them all each time he was asked about the moonwalk. Even if he did name some then others would be mad if he left them out
History's more complex... The EBs were the most "seen", but many other crews were popping before the EBs even made it visible on the mass media. (Medea serkas, G-Style, etc.) But still, yes, MJ learned from them.
if he wanted them to promote their group they should have as they stated -worked with him as recently as ghosts and taken the money. they should have been like , "i will only work for you if you promote my group". I have never heard MJ list off his choreographers, voice coaches, or dance teachers which he has had many of throughout his life. I have never heard any artist do that - they just name people that inspired them
Michael Jackson did do kicks but the style of kicks he did from what i have seen looking at alot of footage was diffrent. He did more of a straight kick. Then in later years he transitioned to what the EB were talking about. And let lot forget about boogaloo shrimp imfluencing him as well. Never the less, we love MJ growing up and i was Highly influenced by him. But the EB's still have a lack of credit. And course we all develop our own style as dancers. MJ was GREAT at that.
we know he learned it from at least two people. both were originally street dancers. even the boogaloos always call themselves street dancers. why he specifically didnt mention any names is between jeff daniels and mj. jeff daniels didnt have an issue with it go on his website. So, as far as the electric boogaloos are concerned it isn't even their issues especially since they didnt create it
I think that what people are also forgetting is that michael was HEAVILY influenced by BOB FOSSE....SNAKE IN THE GRASS...he admits this...check out the clip and you will see !
No, I do not smoke crack. My point is that bringing something up 25+ years later is pointless. WHy would they do that if they were not jealous. You don't hear MJ complaining about JT, Usher. Chris brown and countless other 'stealing' moves. Besides no one can own a dance move. There is no need to bring up this at this time and date.
true mj took the fame while the boogaloos were thrown back and their not even known in mainstream, thank god they made this video i only wish they woulda told more
these guys are old enough.. dancing keeps them lookin young they never said they taught him the robot , they said slim the robot from the lockers did...lockers have been around since the early 70s bro.. robot and poppin are too different dances
I have been an MJ fan since I was 6 and always defended him and even when he was being wrongly accused I always jammed his music! I have also been breakin and popping for about 14 yrs it might be less than you but I have been around the bboy world for a long time and I have heard a lot of ppl disrepect MJ when in actuality he did a lot for the culture and dancers such as popping Taco etc. I wasnt there either but I have read interviews and listened to interviews by Jeff Daniel and Shrimp
It's actually smart of Michael not to name names. This fools are waiting for Mike to say their names so they have grounds to sue him in court, but it'll never happen.
FOR YOU, who´s the backslide creator? Some people says is Jeffrey Daniels from Shalamar. He actually did on tv before MJ, but...is he the REAL creator? For now i would say yes, and U?
What are they waffling about? Just some of Michael, doing Robotic dancing back in the EARLY 70’s watch?v=Mj71HPMSOsY watch?v=wu2EAZn-Cb0 watch?v=m7EPvorKbsk As for the other talk, bottom line is: Michael Jackson had a LOT of his OWN moves which were also popular. You could get thousands doing the moves MJ did yet, it was Michael who stood out & became so well-known for it because it was simply the WAY he was able to *execute each & every dance move. He was a good tap dancer, too.
oh and another thing if michael ows you money for moves then you guys also owe spider man and thor a whole lot more money but you dont see them complaining they out saving the world ;) you should dance and do music coz you love to do it not only if people promise to mention your name. michael liked learning from others and then trying to perfect it. he learned used those ideas along with his own made the best music to go with it, dressed a million bucks on stage and sold millions, dont hate
hold on i just remembered? oprah asked michaael jackson who made up the moonwalk michael said that he got it from kids from the gettho the inner cities who make up these type of dancing to the runing man etc then he showed her the moonwalk or Backslide as it known
RIP SKEET I worked with MJ on the video REMEMBER THE TIMES the Egyption Ideal that mine to 90% of that video can from my show at caesars palace were MJ seen us.even the dancers were mine MJ like the shirt I were in my 1979 video with street scape he said he had to were it in the video Dude his arms were to long for my shirt he didnt even care I never got my shirt back KEEP TUTIN ON EM
Michael Jackson is funky ya'll. No doubt in my mind he took James Brown footworkin, electric boogalooin, poppin, robotics and just put it all into one, he harnest all that and put it to what it is now which is Michael Jackson. No he didnt make it up but thats that kind of dance he was brought up "Funky". I can see how most people would give him the credit but he knows and the old school know that he just comercialized it which isnt a bad thing i mean he aint cocky about it. Cant hait on Michael
but is why it originally died out in the media and public opinion. I know it never died, I've been breaking since 99, and from then, to even now, there are people who still say, "oh, what you do is so 80's and cheesy." And please don't call it "breakdancing," it's bboying.
Fatima Roberson Choreagraphed remember the time.Michael Peters choreagraphed Beat it and thriller, Jeffery Daniels Choreagraphed ghost and Smooth Criminal.I seen the making of remember the time and did not see You in it.
One thing people need to remember is that Michael Jackson was a recording artist so he did not have all the time in the world as the bugaloos etc had to dance. Despite this in my opinion he took some of these dance moves and made it alot better. I mean anyone who is not a fan of dancing would be able to see through videos that michael is a better dancer than jeffery its fact not opinion! Plus Michael did come up with alot of his old steps but we have is certain haters claiming they taught him!
One thing is fact. Michael could learn faster and better than any other dancer lol...Sure, he did not have all the techniques in the world. With his charisma and grace, he could make the simplest dancee look 100 times better.
they arent whining. obviously someone asked them about mj and his connection to popping and/or locking moves. see the thing is, many people think michael jackson invented the moonwalk and other steps, the right people dont always get the recognition they deserve. just giving the credit to where its due. btw locking and popping came way before the 80s, locking came before popping. mj doesnt popping or locking at all, he just learned those moves to incorporate into his routines.
dude, if i see this type of dance in 1979 before michael jackson up on stage, i will give a shit about it!! i want to ask u question, when u were small and u watch video of michael jackson what do u so "WOW" about the video? me personally the dance moves, and i do like his songs, but what heated up for me is his dance moves! if michael didnt bring this moves up, sooner or later this type of dance will be going to the media, look at breakdancing by ken swift and freshest kidz!
Mike didn't give credit where credit was due but the kick, c'mon. If you watch old Jacksons video you'll see he did a variation of the kick from way back...that's stretching it, but the rest...Amen brother.
on youtube, get deeper than that man. What's better, learning about it from some youtube vids of tricks, or hearing and meeting the actual OG's who created the dance and know where it came from, and why things are done? AGain, I did not say it was a circus, I said that' show the general public views it. I also didn't say it died as an art, I said it died out in the media, but remained alive in the underground.
what did he do that was so wrong? He worked with them, paid them and used them multiple times, other than mention them by name, what else should/could he do
Развлечения
As far as Michael Jackson goes, he learned the moves and executed them, plain and simple. That's how good he is. Now teaching/credit issue, when he said "Black kids from the ghettos", that's the ultimate compliment. Because any OG from Oakland to Chicago to Philly will tell you that THEY invented those moves. So MJ gave credit to the unknown cats who never made on TV. At least EB made it on TV.
Hate how the EBs NEVER give Taco his props... Everyone knows that Michael's actual popping style, especially his solos, were ALL TACO!
Obi Smalls And Taco is the most humble guy about it aswell, i had the pleasure of meeting taco at his house in long beach last year and he had nothing but good things to say about Michael Jackson
Thats not true at all! They give props to Taco BIG time!
These guys are my teachers & I take their classes no matter where they are on this planet. They always give props to Taco.
@@lissy-g-dance Okay, well I am talking about public. They use him as an afterthought. Everyone know Taco's dance style was the MOST attractive out of all of them, yet they make out they were greater or hold more importance. There's a reason why Michael used Taco as his creative consultant after 1983 - 2000 and not them.
@@DJObiSmalls Boogaloo Shrimp also had taught MJ and he also did similar moves that Boogaloo Shrimp would do
@@DJObiSmalls yep taco is definitely apart
I can see that there are people who think that Pop Stars are Pioneers. About 98% of the time that's not the case. A lot of pioneers don't get the recognition that they deserve. these guys are speaking the truth about their contribution to this culture. MJ was a Student.
Tracy Thomas Michael never said he was the one that came up with his dance moves. He always said that some of his inspirations came from Soul Train dancers as well as kids who lived in rural ghettos who were often breakdancing and b-boying in the streets of L.A. and New York. He often cited celebrities such as James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Sammy Davis Jr. and a few others as his sole dance influences. The Electric Boogaloos have nothing to complain about. Michael paid them their money for showing him some moves and that was that. He wasn't obligated to promote them like he was a salesman for them because both parties got something out of it. MJ was a student but he graduated in the top of his class and became very creative by adding different dance elements he learned and observed to form his *OWN* style of dancing
paidenthusiast I totally agree. These dudes just sound bitter, imo. Michael never took any credit of the dancing he was doing, & he never had to promote these guys....HE WAS ALREADY PAYING THEM. lol
Zillz82 Exactly my bro. I can see if these guys were teaching Michael for free then yeah, he should mention them just to get them clientele but they got paid so I really don't see the problem or why they're so bitter. They act as if they were doing Michael a favor which they clearly weren't since they were making money for their services
Tracy Thomas
Man, you´re SO DAMN RIGHT! I found some videos here. I´ll consider this until i have a better answer. Thanks fo the information
You´re right at this point. Suga said they teach Michael to do the Robot (at 0:07), but we can see Michael at 15 or 17 years old, performing robot with J5.
I come back to this video just to see the comments lol. I’ll say this though, the timelines aren’t adding up lol
For all the folks who think the boogaloos are lying, check out MJs earlier dance moves. No doubt Mike could dance, but there is a pronounced shift in his style of movement at one point in the 80s, and I believe it's due to their training. Mikes signature move prior to that was his spinning and a few "James Briwn"moves and yes, I HEARD the infamous "children of ghetto remark he made and was shocked. Mike even gave props to Fred Astaire for influencing his dancing but left the Boogaloos hanging.
There really was footage of Electric Boogaloo doing the backslide (or moonwalk) on the Soul Train Awards in the 70's. Michael first did his famous moonwalk at Motown 25 in 1983.
It's obvious that MJ did in fact took moves here and there from other greats, and Electric Boogaloo were no exception.
According to "The Magic and the Madness" an biograpghy about MJ by J. Randy Taraborrelli, a dancer by the name of "Casper" gave MJ private lessons on how to do the moonwalk.
thats the backslide
I started dancing inspired by MJ and when I got to know what real popping,locking and hip hop were,I realised he used some moves from those styles,he just did them his way,which made him unique.Even though I love MJ,I agree that he didn't acknowledge the EBs as they deserved.Yeah,he didn't learn the robot from them,it was a popular social dance style back then,but popping is much more than that and the EBs know best,coz they developed it and worked as hard as MJ to be the best of the best!PEACE!
It’s bcuz Michael learned popping and locking from others too not only EBS I’m pretty sure in his book, bio, or doc he gives some type of credit
Michael Jackson was not a popper, he had poppin routines in Captain Eo and Smooth Criminal, that was about it. The solos he did for Billie Jean were mainly Taco, Shrimp and Daniel moves. But MJ never consistently flexed his muscles to the beat as a popper would in his commercial videos or stage performances. This deliberate
Michael was better though.The one part about the kick really showed Micheal's genius. He took something that even his teachers disregarded and made it an iconic dance move known and loved around the world. Michael took everything and made it better. Michael had an incredible ability to learn everything, from tap and jazz to popping and locking, mixing it all together to make something that was PURELY AMAZING. He never limited himself, that is why he was truly a better dancer than his teachers.
O mesmo eu diria do grab crotch
They are part of the Electric Boogaloos, Poppin' Pete was in it from the start, I believe, and Skeeter Rabbit (R.I.P.) and Suga Pop a little later. This group was solely responsible with Boogaloo Sam in creating this dance style. Trust me, they don't NEED the recognition, because they are recognized globally by the hip hop community and most definitely are legends. You wanna kno what legends don't do? Legends don't receive help and go around acting like they didn't receive any.
You Right Legions are Legions
This is such a touchy situation, its like because it became famous through MJ that their is some animosity. I mean he worked with them, paid them, and used them multiple times. The only thing MJ could of done was mentioned them by name. They act like MJ didn't dance or wasn't famous for dancing before he worked with them, its like they want all the credit for MJ's dancing ability
Aint nobody who can move like mike
ruclips.net/video/PsSIwyoKLp0/видео.html
Les Twins :)
"I'm still waiting for my check" LMAO...classic Pete.
wat i have noticed is that michael will try to take a move and make it his own. slim the robot probably did teach mike that. but michael's robot was bananas! he took it and made it his own. compare and contrast the two, they really dont look similar, mike had alot of footwork. i just think its cool that he even worked the legendary boogaloos
...and even these guys probably created many moves from scratch, BUT I would bet that they were inspired by things they saw too. In my early attempts to breakdance in 1982-83, I tried to do the moves I saw and some developed into something else, and some people thought I "invented" a move here and there. They were derivatives, like a lot of performers. Jackson did that a lot, borrowed and made it better or different, AND invented his own stuff. All should try to site where they learned it from
The Jackson's knew how to dance already...Michael may have not been in the "Hood" to catch every dance that was going around back at that time that is for sure...But, know one thing about Mr. Michael Jackson he was very professional and a creative being at right, so he did seek to find new adds to his performances...that is what made him who he was...Michael Jackson...And he did always say he learn some of those dances from neighborhood dancers and he was proud of that...he thought that was the truly unique elements of some of his creative expressions while performing..with that said...in NO way was he suppose to take care of these folks for the rest of their natural born LIFE...no baby come on now you had to work as hard as he did...and he started at an early age mastering his craft....Michael Jackson was a kind man, but he was not a.....FOOL on that level about this subject here.....Oh and Jeffrey Daniel of Shalamar said he taught Michael..the Moonwalk which is really the backslide...Yep that is what he said..so now how many folk he had to keep saying thank you too...well because everyone knows he was a nice man and would not have taken advantage of them....and they know that...they did what they did...and He was Michael Jackson pretty much end of story right there..........
thank you!!
djmaneone this was filmed in Philadelphia at the a
Annual Rennie Harris Legends of Hip Hop Festival, I was filming the same footage right next to the person who filmed this. I still have somewhere on a DV Tape.
I understand these guys are mad that MJ didnt give them all the credit they deserve, but thats like a history teacher going on tv talking about a student that they had that is know famous becuase he knows a lot about history and not crediting the teacher for his success. these guys are amazing dancers but they need to realize that in life you cant expect to be thanked for everything, espicially in the world of entertainment
The REAL creator to the backslide is Snake Hips he did a small show around the 1925
The “kick & grab” came from Bob Fosse, Michael even admitted that. He was taught the robot by Robert Sheilds, in 1973, who also choreographed the Dancin’ Machine routine. I have spoken to Robert and confirmed this.
ok the GOOD dancer who PROOVES him selfon stage .. .
not just talkin ( i did & they did ) ..
NO ONE MOVES LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON ..
@pamdanceehh I agree. Michael certainly brought plenty of his own invention to dance (mostly in HOW he did the moves more often than purely creating them) since he honed and practiced his ass off... but everyone learns from others, no matter how god-like some want to believe their favorite artists are.Things like the robot, etc... were done by entertainers not even dancing-- think mimes, and other variety shows long before funk styles. It all is sampled and changed a bit and can look great.
did they also teach mike how to do ballet or jazz? or what about his tap dancing?
Blitzuke, The EB's did claim to have created it. " Popping was another style created by Sam"- From the EB's homepage.
How do you explain all the disco guys doing it before Michael did then?
i could almost swear that that's slick dogg to the left of sugapop
I think no one person invents all the dances around today...but certain individuals actully put a dance together, that transcends a little party move and becomes something that a large number of people begin to get into... its what i call the Big Bang Theory...simply a moment when something becomes bigger than its self and all manner of people get into it, it may be Music Art Politics whatever but someone or a group are resonsible for that sudden surge of that art form or political idea..
These dude jus tellin it like it is, MJ could hav given credit 2 these guy's but chose not 2 so he can hav them all 2 himself, that way he maintains his superiority. I feel privileged learning the truth behind the showbiz, obviously no 1 can question Mj's dancing ability & creativity, but the greatest talent always come from the street culture.
Did Michael said he invented the moves? Is there a patent to a move that others can't use without mentioning the creator?
a small group of guys, creating a dance and influencing millions today in dance styles, that's legendary.
hip hop music, to even clothing. they were poor and decided to use their mom's cleaning rags as bandanas, and now that is a million dollar industry, just the bandana alone. To the fashion, entertainment industry, and underground culture, from a bunch of kids from the ghetto, spreading that out to places like Denmark, and worldwide, you do the math.
@abbeykroeter Well said! I have tried to tell many friends very much the same thing when they try to argue the justification in worshiping a few artists. I sighted mimes, and some entertaining dancers from the silent era that did some amazing yet odd work, but most people just don't seem to have time to believe the "conglomerate of talents" phenomenon as I call it... collecting the what you like, working into something solid on it's own. If anyone asks, give props to the ones that inspired it.
yes that was my point aswell dance coz you wanna dance not only if people mention your name if they get fame. so many good dancers you see on youtube. so now if michael went on stage for the this is it concert he would now have to have a 5 minute speech at the end of the concert reading names of everyone he has seen dancing or els thay may think he has stollen a move or start crying about how he didnt mention them.
That's because JT, Usher, Chris Brown, all agree, and say, Michael Jackson inspired them and the way they dance.
They gave proper credit and named who it was, that's the difference.
@KingofPepsi You can find moves like the moonwalk in tap dance routines filmed before 1950. Look up "first moonwalk" youtube.. it will be entertaining. Some of the footage is quite old.
Michael took the kick and hand move from Ray Fosse "Snake in the Grass", not the EB's
Bryce Hill You mean Bob Fosse
Yes Bob, thank you
No. Bob Fosse stole it from Black America and Michael reclaimed what was part of his culture. Research John W. Bubbles and Bill Bailey... Bob Fosse would dance in nightclubs when he was a teenager, were he learned how to copy Black Americans dancing...
it wasnt just them, also Shabba Doo, Boogaloo Shrimp, and Poppin Taco, Coolie Jackson too
@breaklock Well "plenty" doesn't mean 100% anyway; I am thinking some of the panache Michael put on some moves are things he worked on, some copied from your reference and others, and some came up as new while practicing. I will look into Pop N Taco though thank you for the reference! I am not surprised if there is one more out there like hm that Michael learned from; and I'll enjoy seeing any of the pioneers if you remember some other names for me.
clearly thats why i said "p.s." i was referring to something i read one of them made saying they created the moonwalk - read my other comments - it would be ridiculous for him to name off all the different dance influences he had- watch his concerts he does a mix of - tap, his own style footwork, spins, grabbing the crotch jumping on his toes, locking, robotic, james brown etc., not too mention it was jeff daniels and popn taco who worked with him most on his poppin type moves-sour grapes
These comments are insane. Michael Jackson's genius was his ability to take bits and pieces of different dance genres and create a style all his own. And by the way, there is nobody out there today who looks anything like Michael when he dances (not Usher, Justin Timberlake, etc.). That's why they will always say that nobody MOVES LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON.
ruclips.net/video/PsSIwyoKLp0/видео.html
As for hitting, that's different from the robot, hitting unlike the robot, is not just stopping your body, but tensing your muscles at that stop to create a more vibrating hitting effect. Hitting came after the robot.
So both hitting and boogalooing which these guys created, is not the robot.
I think they're just tired of Michael gettin credit for every damn move. The great dancers are the ones who created the moves...If you watch mike 98% of his moves are lifted ( taught..whatever). Props to him for being a haed worker and fast learner though.
I see your points there but i ment on the Elite side is that they are the Elite of boogaloo. Back then there were alot of popping styles and many of them were real good. Plus no one can confirm who created popping not the word but popping and who was actually the best at what and all. Other then Boogaloo.
Well in terms of Micheal Jackson diresctly learning off the EB's i don't think we will ever find out the exact truth but all i know, Micheal Jackson's moves are truly original. If he learnt that stuff of EB's it wouldn't matter cause it's nothing like the world has ever seen anyway. Maybe he should have credited the EB's but i don't think it matters that much.
I def . agree with you man, the thing these guys were missing was financial and business education(but many were literally teenagers - so how can u blame em?). i was listening to an interview with Shrimp and they completely screwed him over with the contract to the Breakin series so dude is getting no royalties. u right - fact is many of these guys are legends and would gain a bigger following and have a lot more fans if they were more positive! either way i love the underground culture
Michaael Jackson was "famous" way before he learned from EB's. Do you forget J5 and the Off the Wall album. IF anything it was thriller and beat it video that catapulted him to ICON status and the KING OF POP... read my other comments he learned from MANY diff. dancers. Let's not forget that he also is a singer and people mostly listen to his music thats why artists are measured by album sales not on dance moves done
i didnt grow up in the 70's but from my research on music it looks like a lot of people had similar styles and great moves back then and i dont think they refernce each other at the end of there videos so why should michael be the only one who has to do it. simply put its just people trying to jump on someone that has fame so that hopefully they get fame aswell without putting in the hard work
they said it in other interviews - hence the "p.s." - they need to stop complaining if they don't need it. your opinion on EB's > MJ. they sound just like bitter men to me. I greatly respect their dancing but they need to stop hating on someone who they accepted money from on multiple occassions... there will and are millions around the world listening to MJ and they will continue to listen to MJ. man is a genius
True but dont mistaken that the E.B.s were in 3 different types of groups. Im not sure on dates and all and true about the lack of info matching up. But before the E.B.'s there was something like Electric boogaloo's and lockers. They had about 2 lockers in the group. ill check the dates and all later.
Michael was 15yrs old when Michael started Popin. But when Michael was 11yrs old he was already a singing and dancing genius. These Electric Boogaloo guys are talkin crap about Michael Jackson.
MJ dance is focused more on acting and miming ,old-fashioned entertainment(jazz-dance), than on an acrobatic dance style(popping,locking).He said it himself..he doesn't do that much of it anyway....
I mean yeah..he could have mentioned them somewhere...but it's already an old story and people interested in MJ know who inspired and taught him dance techniques.
plus that kick thing was a disco dance move before Michael did it. a ton of people were doing it, so how do they figure they invented it?
@LeeshLove - how do you know that? Have you ever seen these guys dance?
they taught mj some choreography that was used in captain eo and thats about it really mj learnt alot from jeffer daniel and pop n taco but even at that the proof is in the way mj dances its like 20 per cent of mjs whole dance arsenal and this moonwalk business aka backslide is overhyped i taught myself how to do backslide lool but they go on like its the hardest dance move ever. Mj could do far more complicated steps than the backslide
Jeffery a fraud it was Boogaloo and others
True, True
@1980Triumph The EBs made up popping triumpth.
"MJ was a noted dancer years before working with them. "
true, but not in the realm of Popping.. MJ was taught by the Lockers, and got moves from James Brown
don't forget the time when pete picked his nose and flicked it in the air...Michael totally did that in his trailer on the 1988 bad tour.
mj never gave me credit for teaching him the lean
keep tutin on em
Now i understand the part from smooth criminal when the black kid says "i thought him everything he knows".
Michael Jackson was fucking crazy, and these dudes expecting him to give them credit is fucking crazy. Crazy people do all kinds of crazy shit. Michael Jackson was crazy talented and put on some crazy shows and entertained the shit out of the world, but he was crazy.
they're not stuck in the past, they still teach and influence, and can take out anyone today. With breaking, guys get older, can't move as fast or do the acrobats, but with popping, the OGS still come out strong and destroy, and because of the years, they have more vocabulary and technical moves.
Even david elsewhere wouldn't say the crap you've said.
Uh no, I didn't say it died, I said it died out "in the media." It did die out in the media, after the craze for it in the 80's. Since we're talking about what's true art, and what's just crowd pleasing for the general spectator, I was referring to why that whole focus on big dynamic moves is nothing new,
bring in Elsewhere, he's a different form of dancing, in the boogaloo style, he would lose to them. His style is a different form of animation, movement, and different foundation.
They dont' need to prove who they are, they've already done that, by creating a dance that MILLIONS of people do. influencing millions, that's enough proof of their talent already.
Back in England we heard about popping thing way back when....i myself have made some new moves in todays modern world...boogaloo sam did not invent all the moves but he did merge several ideas with help into a form that we know today...Mj had media working for him, but he should have given credit to boogaloo sam...i mean with that input the cradle of most western dance that has a pop or wave just would not be there...
imagine no BBoy culture.
forms, may find some things looking "cool," and crowd pleasing, but they for the most part wouldn't judge it better than an experienced person and expert in the actual art form or sport.
So what are you judging this by?
and u know what u r right everyone has their own version...I have heard Shrimp praise MJ but then also put him down in other interviews. And yes although my knowledge is through the internet concerning old school cats influence on MJ there are so many that say they taught MJ this and that, that I know many dancers worked with him and it would be stupid for him to name them all each time he was asked about the moonwalk. Even if he did name some then others would be mad if he left them out
History's more complex...
The EBs were the most "seen", but many other crews were popping before the EBs even made it visible on the mass media. (Medea serkas, G-Style, etc.)
But still, yes, MJ learned from them.
and I will keep dancing u too!
Good shit Pop.
if he wanted them to promote their group they should have as they stated -worked with him as recently as ghosts and taken the money. they should have been like , "i will only work for you if you promote my group". I have never heard MJ list off his choreographers, voice coaches, or dance teachers which he has had many of throughout his life. I have never heard any artist do that - they just name people that inspired them
@MrBuzzialdrin how can you say that? there are sooo many dancers in the world that work their butt off everyday. how would you know?
Michael Jackson did do kicks but the style of kicks he did from what i have seen looking at alot of footage was diffrent. He did more of a straight kick. Then in later years he transitioned to what the EB were talking about. And let lot forget about boogaloo shrimp imfluencing him as well. Never the less, we love MJ growing up and i was Highly influenced by him. But the EB's still have a lack of credit. And course we all develop our own style as dancers. MJ was GREAT at that.
we know he learned it from at least two people. both were originally street dancers. even the boogaloos always call themselves street dancers. why he specifically didnt mention any names is between jeff daniels and mj. jeff daniels didnt have an issue with it go on his website. So, as far as the electric boogaloos are concerned it isn't even their issues especially since they didnt create it
I think that what people are also forgetting is that michael was HEAVILY influenced by BOB FOSSE....SNAKE IN THE GRASS...he admits this...check out the clip and you will see !
No, I do not smoke crack. My point is that bringing something up 25+ years later is pointless. WHy would they do that if they were not jealous. You don't hear MJ complaining about JT, Usher. Chris brown and countless other 'stealing' moves. Besides no one can own a dance move. There is no need to bring up this at this time and date.
true
mj took the fame while the boogaloos were thrown back and their not even known in mainstream,
thank god they made this video
i only wish they woulda told more
these guys are old enough.. dancing keeps them lookin young
they never said they taught him the robot , they said slim the robot from the lockers did...lockers have been around since the early 70s bro..
robot and poppin are too different dances
the electric boogaloos were around before 79
I have been an MJ fan since I was 6 and always defended him and even when he was being wrongly accused I always jammed his music! I have also been breakin and popping for about 14 yrs it might be less than you but I have been around the bboy world for a long time and I have heard a lot of ppl disrepect MJ when in actuality he did a lot for the culture and dancers such as popping Taco etc. I wasnt there either but I have read interviews and listened to interviews by Jeff Daniel and Shrimp
It's actually smart of Michael not to name names. This fools are waiting for Mike to say their names so they have grounds to sue him in court, but it'll never happen.
FOR YOU, who´s the backslide creator? Some people says is Jeffrey Daniels from Shalamar. He actually did on tv before MJ, but...is he the REAL creator? For now i would say yes, and U?
All they said is they taught him how to pop. Michael Jackson didn't really showcase his popping ability until the Bad album.
What are they waffling about?
Just some of Michael, doing Robotic dancing back in the EARLY 70’s
watch?v=Mj71HPMSOsY
watch?v=wu2EAZn-Cb0
watch?v=m7EPvorKbsk
As for the other talk, bottom line is:
Michael Jackson had a LOT of his OWN moves which were also popular.
You could get thousands doing the moves MJ did yet, it was Michael who stood out & became so well-known for it because it was simply the WAY he was able to *execute each & every dance move. He was a good tap dancer, too.
Jackson is the King.
oh and another thing if michael ows you money for moves then you guys also owe spider man and thor a whole lot more money but you dont see them complaining they out saving the world ;) you should dance and do music coz you love to do it not only if people promise to mention your name. michael liked learning from others and then trying to perfect it. he learned used those ideas along with his own made the best music to go with it, dressed a million bucks on stage and sold millions, dont hate
hold on i just remembered? oprah asked michaael jackson who made up the moonwalk michael said that he got it from kids from the gettho the inner cities who make up these type of dancing to the runing man etc then he showed her the moonwalk or Backslide as it known
RIP SKEET I worked with MJ on the video REMEMBER THE TIMES the Egyption Ideal that mine to 90% of that video can from my show at caesars palace were MJ seen us.even the dancers were mine MJ like the shirt I were in my 1979 video with street scape he said he had to were it in the video Dude his arms were to long for my shirt he didnt even care I never got my shirt back KEEP TUTIN ON EM
Michael Jackson is funky ya'll. No doubt in my mind he took James Brown footworkin, electric boogalooin, poppin, robotics and just put it all into one, he harnest all that and put it to what it is now which is Michael Jackson. No he didnt make it up but thats that kind of dance he was brought up "Funky". I can see how most people would give him the credit but he knows and the old school know that he just comercialized it which isnt a bad thing i mean he aint cocky about it.
Cant hait on Michael
taught* him . latoya says he saw it first from him on soul train. but who knows
but is why it originally died out in the media and public opinion. I know it never died, I've been breaking since 99, and from then, to even now, there are people who still say, "oh, what you do is so 80's and cheesy."
And please don't call it "breakdancing," it's bboying.
Fatima Roberson Choreagraphed remember the time.Michael Peters choreagraphed Beat it and thriller, Jeffery Daniels Choreagraphed ghost and Smooth Criminal.I seen the making of remember the time and did not see You in it.
One thing people need to remember is that Michael Jackson was a recording artist so he did not have all the time in the world as the bugaloos etc had to dance. Despite this in my opinion he took some of these dance moves and made it alot better. I mean anyone who is not a fan of dancing would be able to see through videos that michael is a better dancer than jeffery its fact not opinion! Plus Michael did come up with alot of his old steps but we have is certain haters claiming they taught him!
One thing is fact. Michael could learn faster and better than any other dancer lol...Sure, he did not have all the techniques in the world. With his charisma and grace, he could make the simplest dancee look 100 times better.
mj was a student,the taught him
Pop ‘n taco taught Michael everything ...
they arent whining. obviously someone asked them about mj and his connection to popping and/or locking moves. see the thing is, many people think michael jackson invented the moonwalk and other steps, the right people dont always get the recognition they deserve. just giving the credit to where its due. btw locking and popping came way before the 80s, locking came before popping. mj doesnt popping or locking at all, he just learned those moves to incorporate into his routines.
dude, if i see this type of dance in 1979 before michael jackson up on stage, i will give a shit about it!! i want to ask u question, when u were small and u watch video of michael jackson what do u so "WOW" about the video? me personally the dance moves, and i do like his songs, but what heated up for me is his dance moves! if michael didnt bring this moves up, sooner or later this type of dance will be going to the media, look at breakdancing by ken swift and freshest kidz!
Mike didn't give credit where credit was due but the kick, c'mon. If you watch old Jacksons video you'll see he did a variation of the kick from way back...that's stretching it, but the rest...Amen brother.
But if Pete told you that, how can you say it's not being mentioned?
on youtube, get deeper than that man. What's better, learning about it from some youtube vids of tricks, or hearing and meeting the actual OG's who created the dance and know where it came from, and why things are done?
AGain, I did not say it was a circus, I said that' show the general public views it. I also didn't say it died as an art, I said it died out in the media, but remained alive in the underground.
what did he do that was so wrong? He worked with them, paid them and used them multiple times, other than mention them by name, what else should/could he do