I was raised in a French - USA "mixed family" (French mother, American father)and my siblings and I were raised in France for part of our lives. I feel that all of your points are spot on and quite valid. You are to be commended for making them in a way that is not critical or judgmental. What I was raised to see was 1) in general, almost all French people find it super important to be polite, and considerate. On the other hand, they do not find it a virtue to get friendly or personal with people they don't know. Two French families can live next door to each other for 50 years, without ever going beyond a proper "Bonjour" and "Au revoir", and neither family will think the worse of the other for it. 2) friends tend to be friends for life, like family, and it will not matter if they are widely apart on the political level, religion, or anything else, they argue hard, and then sit down at the family dinner table every Sunday and have a good time laughing about it all 3) I think the French personality tends to be somewhat perfectionistic, starting with their school experience. The teachers are tough and can grade you down for bad handwriting, improper spelling, incorrect conjugations, etc, etc. This seems to lead to a general fear of being judged harshly if you make even the slightest mistake or faux pas. This means you really have to trust that your friends are going to stick by you no matter what. I think that there is a general lack of self confidence underlying a lot of people's feelings. 4) Being "serieux" (serious) is valued way above being what they would see as silly and superficial. At the same time, seeing the ironies of life and being able to laugh about them is also highly valued. My French relatives absolutely adored my American father, because although he was of a different culture, he always showed great interest and understanding of the French ways, and was loyal and accepting of them.
Bonjour! Is the politics discussion still possible between friends in France? I ask because politics has become so toxic here in North America that it's as sensitive a topic as money. Merci, in advance for any comment you may feel free to make.
One of the things I like about French friends, which I find different in the US, is that people here (in the US) want to appear totally supportive and won't agree with you when you say, made a faux pas with someone--they want to make you feel better and smooth it over. With French friends, they're more like "yes, you totally messed that up, you really blew it" which was shocking at first (so direct) but then they help you figure out how to fix it--they're totally on your side and show a lot of solidarity and sympathy since they can relate. You're also free to disagree with people and have engaging conversations whereas there's a fair amount of conflict avoidance in the US where sharp disagreements might mean a lack of solidarity here. I like the title of the blog, btw and the video was great.
I totally agree; I did my doctorate in French studies and I LOVED the Bernard Pivot/Apostrophes kind of atmosphere of heated debate in seninars and spontaneously when students and also profs got together informally. Also I was vr lucky in having a best friend (25 yrs on still best friend) who corrected literally everything I said and did and personally I found it marvelous -- I could also say to her, e.g. you're really being didactic here, and no harm no foul. So yes, to the frank French!
This video explains so much! I visited family in France about 9 years ago and hung out with my cousin's friends who were all my age, but aside from the "bisou bisou" greeting, no one cared to talk to me. I thought it was odd that they didn't want to speak to the 'new kid/foreigner'. I'm from Canada and we Canadians love talking to new people, especially if they come from other countries, regarless if there is a language barrier - we welcome everyone! I thought something was wrong with me, but from watching this video I realized that that's just how French people are. It all makes so much sense, the mystery has been solved! Hahaha! BTW, I'm really enjoying your channel! Keep up the great work :)
Friendship in France kind of means sharing a real complicity, speak often, see each other often, share our feelings, our fears, our hopes. I'm french and i'm suffering a lot from that. As I moved often when i was younger, very few people, now, are accepting me in their group of friends.
yes, thats exactly how i felt most of the time here in Ireland. Irish people are very friendly but they tend to want to keep it superficial ; no deep conversation as they close off directly.. and i always felt i was misunderstood.
Well there is real difference between your buddies and your friends. I see the buddy as a related person with some kind of good feeling. We share some stories, talk about the casual and common stuff, some time go to party, bar, theater but it's quite superficial and that's enough. We can have fun with buddies, but nothing very personnal, intimate. Friends in the other hand are the rare ppl you can share good and bad stuff, the ppl who is here when you're a wreck and for whom you'll be there to when needed. I would say that friends are the family you choose, rare and precious. Buddies can move away and lose contact, it's a bit sad when it happens but, that's life, when a friend move far away you are still in touch and if you broke up with a friend it's a real bad moment because they are ppl that REALLY matter.
@@DC2022 interesting, how does one turn that buddy into a friend? when you close all the doors to develop to next stage of friendship? I guess the older you get the lonlier you get, that is especially true for immigrants.
@@sinsinsinat5377 how does a buddy become a friend? Well, naturally with people you feel more affinities. Time helps too. Overtime you discover more over your buddies, sometime for the better, sometime not. Some events will make you realize that your acquaintances with some people are in fact quite thin, and sometime that some of your buddies are more reliable and care about you than your own family. What makes you lonelier is: 1_ your ability to bond with people. I know that look obvious but to have buddies and friends, you have to socialize a bit. And this is pretty tricky for some persons. It was for me. It can be tricky to do the first step, fail, doi it again... 2_ the - lack of - opporunities to meet people, not the age or the fact you're immigrant (language barrier is counted as an opportunity problem since you can't easily discuss with people). If you're on a close loop work-home-work and don't talk much to coworkers, you'll miss every oppportunities to meet people and find some you like. 3_ oh, and also luck. I met my best friend almost 30 years ago and it was pure random he was playing arcade, I was watching him performing well and we started to chat about the game. Today I see him like my brother.
Without even watching the whole video, here's my answer to the question: it's hard to make friends in France in general (not just Paris) as soon as you are not a student anymore. It's as simple as that (and for all I know it's also quite common anywhere in the world), usually the people you know best have spent years around you, which doesn't happen that often in our adult life. There is a limit to what you can do with colleagues, so even if you're very social it just won't be the same as the friends you've made in your 20s or earlier as a student. There is also a cultural thing about French people in general, people that are too friendly too quickly are often considered fake, rude, and/or quite intrusive. We usually like a little bit more finesse and discretion if we are to bond with someone. It's a huge topic though, I feel it's quite hard to explain through videos and comments alone. You're bringing very interesting topics though and it's nice to receive feedback from both sides. To be completely honest, as a Frenchman who lived abroad for a few years, ever since I came back to France I've been looking forward to meet strangers because I feel like I have more in common with them than with French people. Living abroad and discussing with strangers completely changes how you see things. :)
Axel Marnier - I liked most of your comment... Except maybe for the end. You don't really have to look for strangers to find open minded people. French people who traveled would most probably fit the mindset you're looking for just as well. Not to say you shouldn't talk to foreigners. All in all, I'd say people with open and curious mind are the best... And as far as I know, this has no nationality... Otherwise I'd be living there already. LOL
But doesn't that limit your growth as a person? Here in Canada we can have friends from school, but as you get older you learn new things, your experience broadens and often you're not the same person you were as a child, or teenager, or university student. New people in your life bring new things, new outlooks, new perspectives. I am so different than I was when I was young I couldn't imagine having the same friends. Also, if someone has problems or bad habits, then keeping the same friends is one way of never being able to get rid of those problems or bad habits because they fit in with your social group.
@@RadiantSkin Exactly. I don't get how people can only have the friends that they made 20 years ago. I view life as a process of continuous growth and learning. Different stages of life require different versions of you. So interacting with and befriending all sorts of people at all stages can contribute towards your overall development as a human being and assist you because you could learn new things from these people and that could assist you in different aspects of your life.
I live in the US and Texas and people are kind of like that here they are not interested in making new friends they already have their friends and I feel really alone here
@@kellinmoore2146 In Tx, you got to love Texas deeply and sincerely, or they reject you. You start making friends, lots of them, when you feel you're one of them. It's the only prerequisite.
Very interesting! I'm French and currently in Bruxelles and I discussed about befriending colleagues with an other French at my work. She told me that at first she was uneasy with the idea of being friends with colleagues so maybe it is not just a parisian thing but more education. Young people are also more open to meet other (they are often better in English) and less "old school" For the group that ignored you it happened to me in France even if I'm French, some people seems to not be very curious about new people.... And that a shame. You're videos are great keep going! And sorry for the broken English
I am French lad and I must say that feel very close to your approach of friendship than the parisian one. I love your RUclips page and your New Zealand accent is so nice! Keep going!
The thing to understand is that we consider friends as the family-you-choose. So it's a bit like choosing a partner for life, you take your time because you expect to get involved just about as much. Therefore, there are also lighter levels of friendship, when you just start lightly befriending someone, you'll keep out of subjects really considered private at first and with time and recognition that confidence goes both ways, the bonds will strengthen towards that family-like status. It's like the supposedly ideal pace for meeting a love partner applied to friendship, which is probably easier since you're not looking for sex on first date ... Now, it's not because someone values one relationship that they're allowed to shun you away. I've seen and had this type of behavior in my 20s. We had a core group of strong friends with other people revolving around it. They tried to interact a lot more than we allowed them and the result today is that none of them is present anymore, the old group of friends got somewhat disbanded because people have moved away for their jobs. We still cherish each other but have to be open to new friendships from elsewhere. And I guess it's more or less the same story for everyone. So, I'd say, just wait until life happened to those people you want to befriend, or target older people and I'm sure they'll be glad to be given an opportunity. You don't have a national dish ? Just like we don't have a national hat. Same difference but some people seem not to have noticed. It's probably the thing I dislike the most about my country, the feeling that everybody is perched on poles on top of their high horses. Listen to french tourists abroad, we're always explaining how things are done differently in France, trying to explain how it might be fine over there but it's great over here. It seems like we're only interested in foreigners if it helps make us shine somehow. It's disgusting. Because we're sooo great, we have the best food, the best wine, the best cheese and the best chefs competing on TV. And who noticed we don't have any of the Google, Apple, Samsung ... no one. So I'd say, keep away from people who think like this, they can't value things properly so they won't give you any. Maybe now you understand why you should be picky about your friends here, too many retards around I dare say :D Anyway, keep your smile and keep looking around, you'll find the right people eventually, I'm sure.
6 лет назад+29
I also think this is a great comment that really explains how we go about friendship. I have 8 people that I consider "real friends". I have known them since I was 10 years old. Everyone is now distributed throughout the globe, but we still keep in touch and see each other if we're in the same place. I consider them my family. I share with them stuff that I would not share with anyone else (not even my sister!) - they know pretty much everything about me, and vice versa. I did make other friends later in life (Uni, for example) but these faded away - that just happens, even with real friends. I have always noticed that friendship in North American countries is much more about location and convenience: you count if you are in reach - as soon as you are out of reach (geographically) you are forgotten. On my end, I decided that I preferred having a few real friends than many "buddies", so to speak. In Canada though, I have a very large "network" of people that I care about. But since I met them much later in life, I don't share a lot of personal stuff with them, and the relationship probably won't last if I leave the city I am in. Seems to me that you can relate this to "dating": I had no idea what that meant when I heard it in the US for the first time. Someone explained it, and the concept was still fuzzy. For me, if you went to the movie, or a bar, or a restaurant, or made arrangements to sit and watch TV eating ice cream with someone, and did that over the course of several days, weeks or months, that meant you were on your way to build a romantic relationship, and were not doing all of those things with someone else at the same time. In France, usually, if you kiss someone after having had all of these little moments, you can consider that you are in a relationship (meaning, an "exclusive" relationship). In North America, it seems that people can do this with several people at once, and then they pick who they prefer to officialize a "dating" relationship. I think friendships in France get built the same way than the "exclusive romantic relationship" I was mentioning before, which is why it is so hard to make real friends. It is very true that French people compare themselves with the rest of the world. On my end, I have a very strong "compare and contrast" mindset that I consider fully linked to my French education. However, when I do it, it's more out of pure interest of understanding other cultures than wanting to feel superior. When my parents visit from France though, I must admit that sometimes, the way they speak about what they see in Canada can sound very judgmental. So, we have to walk a fine line and make sure that the way we compare ourselves with others is done in a healthy way. I found the varying hair styles and dress styles pretty refreshing in North America compared to France, it shows that people affirm their uniqueness. For example, we don't have a huge tattoo culture in France; so, my parents get a huge culture shock when they come visit, because probably over 40% of people have tattoos (and lots of them) where I live. I have been in Canada for 10 years now, and every year, it seems like I become a little more Canadian and a little less French. It's sad in a way, but I try to keep the best of both. Being an expat also makes you realize how much stuff is wrong in France, and how much stuff is great in France. It's much harder to get that perspective without the expat or multicultural experience.
ughhhh I agreed with everything you said untill the "Google, Apple, Samsung" part and the "retards" part like do you really need to be that offensive in a language that isn't even yours ??? And "Google, Apple, Samsung" are just really crappy companies spying on people, exploiting poor people (including children) from other countries to produce really cheap products to sell with really high prices to rich countries all of that while avoiding to pay any taxes in those countries they're making money from. So yeah maybe that's not such a bad thing that we don't "have" those (oh, wait ! we totally have those kind of companies !). But we're great war criminals helping our private corporations to sell death engines by getting involved in other countries politics, and then again we have our share of those awfull companies exploiting people around especially in africa and asia so you can stop whining.
Ce que je dis c'est que le fossé technologique s'agrandit, nous investissons trop peu dans les activités qui feront la richesse de demain. A la place, on se contente vanter et vendre notre culture du luxe. C'est du vent, une illusion, le pire pari sur l'avenir qu'on puisse faire. Et c'est complètement débile oui, quelle que soit la langue dans laquelle tu l'exprimes.
Very well said. Usually French people have very few friends as "Friend" is the innermost circle of relations (sometimes closer than family or even partner). French have buddies too but usually don't invest time in this kind of relationship as they know it won't last. As many other aspects of French culture: quality over quantity.
Hi there! I’m from Kazakhstan living in France and I can totally relate to the frustration of making French friends… the concept and understanding of friendship is just different… I wouldn’t say it’s only Parisians though… I lived in Lyon and it’s the same thing… unfortunately, after 5 years of university studies in France I’ve 0 real French friend of my age…. I also think that their curiosity level is very low… Anyway, thanks for the video!
If you meet someone who sounds Australian but you’re not sure, ask them to use the word “check-in” in a sentence. If it sounds like they said “chicken,” they’re a kiwi!
I'm so happy that someone decided to make this video and that now I know it happens other places too. Denmark is second to last ranked every time they do expat satisfaction surveys (only one rank above xenophobic Switzerland) because of how hard it is to integrate due to a lot of the reasons you outlined here. I lived in Copenhagen for a year and it was so difficult to make friends, even with a Danish partner. My boyfriend is still friends with the people he met in kindergarten (!!) and to this day that's who his best friend is. I came back with no Danish friends whatsoever (and I did try, I took a year of languages classes before I even went). It's really difficult because people automatically categorize you as being foreign and therefore you're leaving so they shouldn't make an investment at all but that's just not how Americans/Kiwis/Aussies see it. I love having international friends but it seemed like because I was foreign I didn't have anything to offer. The most frustrating thing is that I am going back soon (less than a year) to do a master's degree and I'm trying to build a life for myself but they are already decided on the whole topic of whether or not they should spend any time on the relationship with you. It's like "I'm different than everyone else, I'm coming back!!!!" The attitude there is very french and they do think very highly of themselves and are therefore not that interested in other cultures. I was an exchange student in Germany and people are so excited to talk to you just because you come from some other place but I found nobody in Denmark shared that sentiment. I was very unlucky with living situations but at least people in Denmark make friends at their jobs, like seriously how would you not socialize outside of work with your colleagues? Hoping that my masters won't be as depressingly void of decent human interaction as my year abroad there.
Alden Rose Ahh yes! Nordic countries are routinely ranked the worst for expats’ life satisfaction. It’s incredibly hard to make friends there, you get lonely. My Italian friend is studying in Norway she’s currently experiencing what you’ve just outlined and she hates it.
Oh no that's so tough. The cultures are so different. Is your friend into sports? That's the only way to make friends with Norwegians unless you have a good circle of friends from your living situation or from work. From the Norwegians I've talked to most of them said that normally they would never talk to strangers but if you're out hiking then it's completely normal to talk to people. I found it hard to make friends with people my age in Copenhagen because a lot of the university aged people don't do much outside of drinking, studying, and going on the occasional weekend trip. It's really disappointing because where I'm from everyone (literally every single person I know) liked to go out hiking and skiing and that's a very easy way to meet people but not that many university aged students had developed well rounded hobbies that didn't involve drinking or partying. I don't mind drinking or partying but doing the same thing every single weekend gets so boring. I'm sure your friend is struggling with the paradox of not being able to socialize outside of drinking unless she's already participating in a sport.
Alden Rose ahh no, she’s not into sports at all. All of her friends are fellow expats. She’s not there for long just till the end of the summer so she’ll be fine.
Hi guys! As a Danish person, it really saddens me to hear this and I always pride myself of thinking that I am very welcoming and open to strangers - I even invited a complete stranger for brunch this winter because she was alone in Denmark for Christmas. But I also do know that this is not the case for everyone and us Danish people are suuuper into ourselves and our language. It's almost uncomfortable to speak English with foreigners even though virtually everyone speaks it here. Write me on here if you'd like to meet up sometime - I have some cool friends too who are not afraid of foreigners and there's always room for another one :)
I spent basically this entire video trying to pinpoint the exact differences between your accents 😂 Really interesting topic though! About French people being less interested in strangers, I think it also has to do with a sort of politeness. I get the impression that being too curious or asking more personal questions to people you don't know very well is considered invasive. Once you've survived all the effort of making the friendship, though, then pretty much any conversation topic is on the table 😜
This Rosie just effin this . You have no idea how much this too plays a tremendous role. Once we turn on the "friend switch" pretty much any topic of conversation is allowed hence also why we are very selective.
I totally agree with this analyze Andrea! It somehow can be frustrating sometimes, but the french rules of politeness ask you not to be too intrusif at first: when meeting a new person, you have to "test the water" gradually and with caution before starting to bring up "sensitive" subjects like opinions etc.
Totally agree with you!! But not only in Paris! I'm Italian and I live in Antibes, in the south and after 4 years.. zero french friends! 😓😓 All people I knew at work, at language lessons didn't want to "continue" the relationship, they have their friends.. so sad!! Maybe in Paris there are more strangers to meet so it's a little bit better! Eh, c'est la vie!🤷🏻♀️
I think for foreigners and immigrants it’s easier to make friends with other foreigners and immigrants. I’m sorry it’s hard to make friends with native French people.
PS - I've been thinking some more about this topic, I think another issue is that you gave me the impression that you would call "friends" people you've only known for a short time just because you're friendly with them, hence "new friends" - whereas in France you wouldn't call a casual acquaintance, or a friend of a friend, a friend, that's a different "level", as others have also pointed out. This morning I just witnessed a long conversation between my coworkers about what they expected from their friends, how they expected them to behave in certain situations, i.e. being in a new relationship, after getting married, having kids, etc; - so I think that generally speaking, the French take their friendships very seriously, it's a true commitment :)
Hi Rosie, nice video but i disagree about some things. First, perhaps Candice "can't make friends" with her collegues but it depends on your Job. Personnaly, many friends i get are my collegues (i'm parisian, and perhaps i'm not objective because i don't work in a desk, but at the hospital. My engineers or commercials friends have friends in there job). It's true that in France we prefer dissociate privacy and work but it's not incompatible. At work we talk about work (and life) and when we see eatch other out of work we talk about anything else. =) Secondly, in France we don't make true friends so easily. I know for strangers we seem to be rude, impolite and "frozen" (i don't know how to say that) but it's just that we have a kind of distance with personn we don't know. We can speak with them but we won't hug them (just la bise for beeing polite). We need time because i think we prefer really know the other personn to make confidence. And personnaly i've many "potes" but 3 or 4 real friends in whom i'm totally trust. Friends for life ^^ And you're totally true, it's difficult for french with others frenchs to make real friends (so many "friend/french" word in this sentance). The best advice i can give it's juste let do the time. Send sms with personn you're interested in, party with them, just take a drink in a bar or a "planche de charcuterie", or just go to " les quais de seines ou quais du canal saint martin" for speaking, eating and drinking a beer, wine or whatever you want.You'll se that time it's the better things, to know witch personn really worth it. (for example i had many friends in high school and when i was in university for medicine studies, i've lost many of them becausethey were not able to understand that I had to work and i couldn't go out. But, it's an evil for a good because now, only my true friends are stayed and i know i can count on them and they can call me at 2 a.m if they have a problem. (i've my friends and my "potes" it's not the same degree of friendship.) For the French language. French people know speack english (not older personn but many of 20-40). I think we are really proud of our language, history...Etc and in a world where english culture is everywhere, i think we want to preserve our. If you don't speak french fluently but you know basics "bonjour, au revoir, merci s'il vous plait..." it's going to be more easily to be integrate because we see you make an effort so we want to make an effort for you (it's a kind of give-and-take). If you don't make this effort it's true we will be less inclined to engage in conversation. (So many etiquette in France ^^) When you're in the conversation you can tell us we speack too fast and you don't understand anything it's ok =) And again, it's true that we have a network of "connaissance" (less than a "pote" but more than a stranger) we use some time for advice or anything else =) it's just my opinion :) Thank's again for youre video and sorry for my looooooong post and my approximate english.
hey, that´s so interesting. I am from Germany and I feel we´re the same with being "frozen", as you put it. I think you French people absolutely have the right to be proud of your language. I learnt it in school and am now able to have a conversation on a very modest level :-) Lately though, a French guy I met in a third country, told me that he was kind of upsetted when foreigners tried to speak his language. I guess he wants to keep it all clean :-D Wheras I totally appreciate it when someone tries to speak my language. I mean, at least they make a effort. Now I am not so sure if I will ever speak French again, haha
Oh Val, please do ! Please continue speaking French (with me if you want), it is such a pleasure to have people trying to learn it ! This guy was just arrogant.. But most French people would be happy :)
Val L. I agree with Armance Duboscq. Don't let one guy with a bad attitude put you off. I've met loads of French people who were happy to help with my terrible French. He doesn't represent his entire country.
This applies to the North of France too. Or perhaps the whole country. Try to hang out with other foreigners otherwise you won't get disappointed when you realize they're polite, they're funny, they love small talk, they invite you to their place to have an apéro, and guess what, they couldn't be any less interested in becoming your friends.
I’ve been and Paris for a few weeks and I’ve had all the same thoughts. It’s been very rough feeling like people don’t want to talk or be friends you. It’s perfectly logical and very sensible of them. But it’s just so culturally different from the United States and it’s felt very lonely and hard. I get nervous when speaking French and when they hear my accent and start speaking English. They are always well intentioned but it makes me feel like they don’t want to speak the language with me. Maybe people in the United States need to be less sociable and happy all the time hahah. It makes for a rough cultural transition. I’ve tried to accept that they have a different ideas of friendship but I think it will take a while. I have a host family that is Moroccan and they have helped miles. Sending love from Charonne ❤️💕
Hi. I've been through the same difficulties. Apparently the accent is a great deal here and it's very intimidating at the beginning. And making friends at work is like a great deal too. I felt very sad, lonely and disappointed when I realized, a year after I'd moved in to France, that my super kind and polite colleagues would never become my friends. Like, never. I come from Mexico so I don't see what the big deal is. I avoid small talk altogether now. Like I don't see the point anymore. It can be very tough. They're only open to foreigners when they're interested in them romantically.
I am from Australia and Lived in Europe for five years. I find that Australians have friendships and relationships that are more dispensable “flaky” like if they get a better offer they’ll go for that. I think friendships are more honest, genuine and committed on the European continent. They have a tier system as opposed to just “mates”.
Hi ! I had these exact same problems meeting new people when I lived in Australia (I'm french). People arenot interested in making new friends, and they just speak with each other so fast, it makes it really hard to find the time to say anything, it made me feel like I didn't belong. I was just sitting there listening silently, until I've had enough and left. I guess that's what the language barier does. Only the most extroverted people can get past that. It creates some kind of "natural selection" in backpackers hostels, where only the most outgoing persons can fit in and befriend the natives. And there was no way I could compete =/
That's the whole thing : they are not bad people, it's just more comfortable to think so. They have different values, a different mindset, different expectations about life in general and friendship in particular, that's all. It's just too bad for "us introverts" that this kind of people is so easy to find when you travel and outnumber the rest of us if you can't get to share anything with them.
Well, this video is several years old, so I'm not sure you'll still see it, but I'm from Dallas, Texas and here, everybody talks to everybody. I read somewhere that people from different cultures find it very odd the way Americans will strike up a conversation with a perfect stranger. I love striking up conversations with strangers. There's always something you can learn from them and really everybody is so interesting. In a way I've always thought strangers are the best people to talk to. If you say something shocking or offensive, you don't have to worry about it because you'll (most likely) never see them again. My best friend (we're in our sixties now) used to play dolls together and we're still very close. I have all kinds of friends from all over. That's the real spice of life. Getting to know all these different cultures and viewpoints and customs. At my church we have a festival in autumn and people come dressed in their native clothes and we have food from all these different cultures, Kenyan, Phillipeno, Mexican, Nigerian, Tamil (India), German, you name it. It's so much fun to try all these new foods (I'll pass on the fish-heads though ;-) and learn about their customs. Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver, the other gold. : )
I live in Belgium (American) and have had the same experience, even being married to a Belgian. The friend groups are already set and if you have the misfortune of arriving on the scene after university there will always be a limit to how much you'll be welcomed into their lives. I've had to have some tough conversations with my husband's friend group recently because the level of investment expected from me was equal to what they put in only to find myself ignored during conversations or excluded from key events between the girls too often. It got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore and didn't want to be around them. These are my husband's best friends and it's been hard on him to be in the middle too. I learned after a few years that I needed to branch out and make more expat friends who have been through similar things. One of his friends did have a real, honest conversation with me recently about my place in the group and how we can make things better, which I really appreciated, but I'm keeping my expectations low. They're very set in their ways and the status quo has worked great for them the past 17 years so I'm not expecting a profound change in my relationship with them. In any case, thank you for this post. It's been reassuring to see that other anglophone expats in francophone countries have been through the same thing and I can take it less personally!
Hi ! As a french person having leaved in the us two times I totally agree with your vision. You could generalize this to all french people even though the trend is clearly more significant in Paris. Even being French i sometimes feel like a stranger in my own country. When you move to a different french city the process is the same. Thank you for your bright analysis
It's not that French people aren't interested in others' cultures. We are usually shy so we just ask general questions in order not to sound impolite or that we are trying to pry into others' privacy.
Your experience is very interesting cause I’m a Parisian living in Australia since 3yrs and I have all the EXACT same complaints when it comes to making friends with Australian people. I often speak about that topic with my australian partner and tell him that French people are so much more welcoming, that they always ask questions, are interested by other cultures, that they are very happy to meet new people, etc... That’s quite eye opening haha !
Pauline haha interesting! I live in London and find Australians super open and outgoing, but maybe it's only the ones that travel who are like that. I haven't been to Australia yet so I don't have an impression of the "average Australian"
Hi Rosie, as an English & French bi-national, I absolutely love your cultural videos and find that most of the things you say and have noticed about French culture are just spot on! This video is one of my favourites and you nailed it once again... I have been living second-time round in France now for the past 15 years and, as sad as it may sound, I can't say that I have many French friends and still find it so difficult to befriend people on a permanent basis... I have noticed how French people put a very high emphasis on family and spend lots of time with their parents and brothers and sisters, which saddens me as I have no family but it never seemed to bother me before coming back to France and listening to my work collegues go on and on about family events and gatherings... :-/ The other point as well is that in England and all the other countries I lived and worked in, I mostly always made my group of regular friends at work, which has turned out, as you quite cleverly noticed, to be impossible here. When people talk about their friends, they mostly all happen to be childhood or university friends. Every now and then I meet a person that I think it might be fun to become friends with but often, as you mentioned, I feel like I have to make all the friend-making efforts and sometimes it even feels rather disturbing really (no offense to lesbians), as if I have to chase after and woo the person into accepting to become friends which leads to me always inevitably giving up... Another point is that I find that most people here my age (in their early 40's), just hang out 90% of the time with their kids and spouses. I happen to be childless by choice and single - not by choice and because French people put so much emphasis on family and are so closed when it comes to making new friends, it just makes me feel awkward and lonely... My friends are mostly all expats... If you have discovered any clever tricks to befriend people in France, it would be really great if you could share them ! :-)
The 5th point you made couldn’t be more accurate in my experience! I’ve spent hours sat with my boyfriend and his friends in silence as they all have a conversation amongst themselves
Wow it's really interesting to have a foreigner's perspective. As a french citizen it always seemed to me like people in other countries were friendlier (esp USA). It seems easier to make friends, especially as an adult. I could not understand why I had this feeling but this video made me realize why I was so confused. Now I understand why I want to leave France when I start working, people here just don't match my personality. More reserved, less friendly, less open to uncertainty and new experiences... I think meeting new people all the time is so important, otherwise you are not expanding your world and you keep the same narrow perspective on life :/
Salut!! I lived in a smaller town in France and I definitely found it hard to make friends! The people from that small town had their friends already and it was funny that all of the new friends I made were people who were also new to town and didn’t know anyone. My ex-bf was from that town and all his friends were from his teenage years. My level of french wasn’t a big issue.
So thankful for this video. It is very encouraging to hear that same problems are exist in other countries and not just in Denmark!!!! It helps not to take it so personally!!!
It is not that strict. Making general rules miss the point. I personally made friends at work but not many. We are picky and choose only genuine friendship. Here, friends are people we think we can rely on: quality versus quantity. It doesn't mean we can't be friendly with collegue.
Oh my God, thank you for this video! it's been almost 6 years that I am in Paris and still don't have this kind of friendship (like being there for a person when he/she has a meltdown etc.). Me too, I was questioning myself (what's wrong with me? SMH), but then I just got used to it - they have their clique. Still hoping to find good friends though
@Rosie, Je viens de regarder de nouveau une de tes anciennes vidéos "FRENCH CULTURE SHOCKS | 10 random first impressions". Je me demande si tu ne serais pas plus heureuse dans une ville moyenne ou grande de province qu'à Paris. Tu y retrouverais une meilleure qualité de vie, plus de temps disponible, des gens moins stressés. Bref un style de vie beaucoup plus décontracté qui te rappellerait peut-être la Nouvelle-Zélande. Paris tu sais, c'est une ville spéciale. Les jeunes provinciaux y vont pour commencer leur carrière professionnelle et puis vers trente ans ou quarante ans, beaucoup s'en vont parce qu'ils en ont... marre. Fed up with Paris !
In Toulouse, you have Airbus company, the european aircraft constructor. A huge british community is working there because they don't really need to speak french actually. Some of them have been living here for 10 years and they still struggle speaking french. So..... Paris is, of course, the city in France where you could have a lot of international/english speaking jobs opportunities, but it's not the only one ;)
Bordeaux c'est super sympa: il y a plein d'entreprises dans la région, c'est assez jeune, c'est hyper relax, et la région (Arcachon & co.) est magnifique!
I cannot say much for Australians or New Zealanders, but my experience in the US was quite the same. I specifically made an effort not to make friends with my co-nationals in the US, but my best friends always ended up being internationals. It is easy to have friendly talks with Americans, but never easy to become friends as you described. Even after you go out with them, or you've been to their home for a party/dinner, I never felt I had the same level friendship with Americans as I had with internationals. For instance, it was impossible to go spontaneous with my American friends; every time I wanted to meet, I needed to plan in advance (at least two weeks). I used to think it is a cultural thing, but I think it has more to do with 'when' we make the friends; when we go there as adults, people there already have their friends. It is not surprising that most of my friends are internationals, because we were in the same situation: we were alone and needed to make friends. But Americans who lived there had already their inner circles, and I guess this also affects the nature of relationship with 'new friends' is: they make plans with new friends ahead of time, because they would not change their schedule or routine for them; instead save that possibility for their close friends/besties/inner circle however you wanna call them.
I'd say it's the same in the Uk ! I'm French and was an expat in London for 8 years, and it took me ages to make friends with locals. I managed, it was hard work, but really worth it ! But I agree French are hardwork in many ways. It was very difficult for me to come back home after all those years in the Uk. Like a culture shock, not ready for the French roughness. And when you mention the fact that French tend to speak together in slang with no eye contact and no effort for the non French person in the group it is so very true !!! All my French friends were doing that to my non French friends, it was so annoying and lazy !!!!! I don't understand why we do that !!
I don’t think so. I’ve made friends in Paris but it is by far less common and natural than anywhere else I’ve lived. - They very much keep to groups they have known for many years in a way I’ve never witnessed in any other city or country.
I don't think that's true. I live in a fairly large city in the US, and I have made lasting friendships with coworkers at every job I've ever had. I've made friends with my children's friends' parents too, but I haven't managed to keep in touch with all of my childhood friends.
@@a5dr3- I’ve heard that countries like Germany, Denmark, Switzerland (even Norway and Sweden) are worse when it comes to that, people/foreigners/migrants to these countries say how the locals almost exclusively stick to their friendship groups from primary school
We lived in Germany (stationed in Frankfurt) for over 3 years a long time ago and LOVED it! I had a 5mth old baby (boy) and my husband was an Army veterinarian. We both had conversational German language classes, I immediately began shopping and taking transportation around the city, I spoke to people and they LOVED our baby, us attempting to speak German with them, everyone was very friendly! We travelled all over Germany and into many other countries (especially France but not to Paris). We had all our friends and relatives visit us so we could take them around Europe, rather than us going back to the USA. Our son is now 37 (vs 5 months old) with a wife and 3 children of his own! I speak German and French but not "fluent" in either, we do very well but I tend to switch between German and French and visa versa. The Germans don't mind, the French do! I don't let it bother me, because I am happy to TRY to speak with people everywhere we go, if they don't like it, meh... We lived in Germany before the "wall" came down, we NEVER thought that would happen in our lifetime- it was the BIGGEST surprise when it finally happened and we were back in the USA... So nice to be able to travel to the eastern block countries that we could not when we lived there... I LOVED this video! I am relatively new subscriber and I love all your videos, especially about your marriage, congratulations! You speak french so well, I am very impressed with your willingness to live and work away from your home country, and not be afraid to have so many ADVENTURES! People who know us, especially our families are so shocked at how easily we fit into living abroad, I think it's just a willingness and excitement to explore and meet new people and see what some of the rest of the world does things :)
We talked about this reluctance of the French to befriend in my French study class (which was in a French school in the Paris area). What you mention here is all very true and I would second them. 1. Work and Family do not mix and yet because of that the work environment is very "stiff" when compared to most other western countries, interestingly it feels a bit more Asian in this regard. 2. The French friend clique thing seems to stem more from shared experiences combined with a fierce sense of independent entitlement. Your time is yours and whom you choose to share it with is your right which results in a very selective, deep, and exclusive club of friends. There is no friend zone. Just in or out of the micro-cliques. 3. The time it takes to penetrate the clique boundary is such a commitment that the process is what eats up the time. That is why environmental situations such as having to be in school, university, neighborhood together (conditions that last years) are what foster the clique pass. They are no more busy that anybody else. They don't put the effort into it. 4. I encountered that "lack of interest in things not-French" and the token questions. I did notice that most of them reference back to France in some way. The land area thing comes from the fact that France is one of the largest European countries, same with population, etc. The national dish comes from the emphasis on food in France, etc. If it is not French in some way they really don't care and will loop it back around to something French... it is all nationalistic egotism. 5. You hit the nail on the head with the "Every MAN for himself" in French conversation. The national obsession with the language as definition of being French runs so deep that there is a real defense of the language as a hallmark of the culture. Their need to prevent "foreign" words from polluting the language is well known. The belief that unless you are completely fluent you are not worth talking to is sadly true and was one of the greatest disappointments I encountered living in Paris. 6. Yes, French friends have a "network". They use their friends, in a good way. From another perspective it feels very calculated and not very deep, close but not too close. They tend to have friends with a purpose, again with the clique feel. If you make into a clique, you are set for life, but it will never be more than with another in that clique. There are no besties here. - - - - New Zealand vs Australian accent: Listen to the vowels, that is the give away. The NZ has a less "stiff upper lip" so the vowels are a bit more rounded. Also, the classic letters; A, R, and O have slight shifts. However, there are also dialects within each so it would be interesting to note where each of you are from.
Hello! Good video and I think you point important things. It's not specific to Paris but French in general. It's true that real friends are for life, and that we can totally contact anybody in our relationship network to ask any kind of advise,even if we haven't spoke for years, which is a kind of friendship. But you can totally make friends at work, I guess it mainly depends in which kind of company you are. Maybe it's because I'm young, so I'm new and without friends when I arrive in a new city. But as intern, I make friends with the other intern or young workers... I guess it also depend of the situation of your collegues! If they always lived in Paris, their clique might be full... I'm moving to Paris next week, some of my old friends from high-school and university are there, but I definitely want to make new ones too! Sport/art clubs might help too :) I also think that people who actually lived/studied abroad are more open to international friends. Your videos are always super interesting and detailed, not just blabla, thank you for that! Have a wonderful day 😘
As an American, we have no concept of a “full clique”. That’s very different for us. We also move a lot, so we need to quickly find new friends in our new location. It’s hard to keep friends for life.
Ruth Lloyd, what I meant is that Paris is a city where most French people might work at a certain moment during their life, so when you're going there, you have multiple group of friends. And it's time consuming to see all of them, sometimes you like to chat with some super often. So if you already have a lot of contact, your new relationship might be less passionate, more superficial. "buddies", not friends. But how it usually works is that you know somebody and then you join their group, befriend them etc etc... (but of course it's only my opinion and personal experience)
J'ai vécu sur 4 continents, on retrouve les mêmes problèmes partout et souvent se faire des amis dépend beaucoup de l'âge. En tant qu'étudiant je n'ai jamais eu de problèmes, en tant qu'adulte j'ai remarqué qu'il y avait une immense différence entre une amitié dans le monde anglophone (Toronto; Boston; New York; Singapore as far as I'm concerned) et une amitié en France. J'ai trouvé que se faire des amis aux USA était plus facile qu'en France mais ces amitiés sont un peu superficielles. Un ami en France c'est un membre de la famille, généralement quelqu'un avec qui ont a grandi ou étudié et qui partage beaucoup de choses avec nous, les mondes se confondent, pas aux USA. Je me rappelle de mes amis du club de squash à New York, ils ont disparu le jour où je suis parti au Canada. Sur le moment j'avais le sentiment d'être proche d'eux mais non seulement je ne l'ai jamais été mais j'ai réalisé plus tard qu'ils n'avaient personne dans leur vie qu'ils considéraient comme un ami au sens français du terme. I think this shallowness is what most French people are not interested in and this level of commitment could be frightening for expats because in my experience they're either not used to it, or they just don't have that kind of depth of character.
How interesting to have that video as I am currently struggling to make friends in Australia! I do think some of the points you mentioned are common to all expat. Wherever you are if people already have several groups of friends they won't feel the need to have new friends, and most likely won't have time! I definitely had that feeling when I was living in Paris and I had Uni friends, high school friends, old job friends, current job friends (yes I made friends with my colleagues ;) )... That meant a packed schedule and not a lot of free nights ! I do think there are also cultural differences (not just language) that make it difficult. Things that you mentioned in other videos like expectations for a night out, honesty/brutal French feedbacks vs. Aussie/NZ Positivity and outgoing-ness. I can completely imagine that French women seem cold and un friendly. I live it the other way around, I find people so nice and curious here, but when you think oh cool I've made a new friend we can meet up later, nothing happens. I'm still figuring this out... By the way I totally agree. Real friends are for calling in tears when there's something wrong!!
If you’re near South Australia let me know :) I haven’t made many french friends here despite meeting many and being very active in the community here.
Extremely accurate video in my experience!!! For anyone planning on moving to Paris, take note of all these points, it sure could've helped me when I lived there and wondered why my student experience was so different from what people living cities or countries were experiencing...
As a french person I can understand and relate to everything you said especially about the fact it's hard to make new friends even between french people ! I come from south of france and it was super hard to make friends when I came to paris ! The only point where I disagree with you, is the 4th one... maybe it's more true for parisiens I don't know but when I meet people from another region/city/country I just love to talk about their way of life and compare our cultures !
Lorsque tu forges des amitiés en France, c'est "pour la vie" 😁 Ne pas se voir pendant plusieurs années n'est pas un problème en soi; nous avons tous des parcours qui peuvent nous emmener assez loin les uns des autres. Mais on reconnaît les vrais amis à ce plaisir toujours renouvelé que nous avons de nous retrouver.
I read a lot of your blog Parisisjustnotthatintoyou and it's very interesting, funny and sometimes depressing. Great work ! Your situation in the "cardboard boxes" article was very touching. Good video as usual Rosie, keep it up because we want more :p
Even for French people it's hard to make friends when you move to another place, especially if you don't have anyone you know in this area who could introduce you to some new people. I don't think you can't make friends at work, it's totally the opposite. In my job, we are very mobile and workmates are the first source of friends when you move to another location. But that may be specific to my field. About this involvement required for friendship, it's not necessarily that people don't want to make new friends, it's just that they have different levels: best friend>friend>workmate>colleague>acquaintance. And yes, you could use your network to ask for favors, but you should expect to have some demands as well. This will depend a lot on people as well. For example, my girlfriend pays a lot of attention to friendship and she can't get involved in too many friendships as for her, it's almost like a wedding and she has high expectations, meanwhile I don't build so strong friendships as I understand that distance makes friendship harder to maintain and I am more opened to short and mid term friendships.
Im french and I feel the same way you do about french and I always find it very sad. I love new friends and i'm so interested about cultures around the world. Let's be friends ^^
Hi,i'm french and i've never learn so much in one video on why i struggled so much after quitting my childhood friends (coz i changed too much) to make new french friends!!! Almost all the aspects of your approach to friendship resonate with me even if i'm 100% french.But the hard part of the peach is where i feel completly off with your culture.
This is really a phenomena in Paris, and I'm not really sure of that, otherwise, everywhere else it is very common to get friendly with coworkers !! As a French, I'm surprised about that trouble you have !!! It is more likely due to the company or the line of work your are in !
@stiggy I don't know. I had the same reaction you had. But thinking about it again, yes people in here rarely have a happy relationship with their work and that may alter their mood and behavior towards other. I totally agree (with somebody in the comments, can't remember who) we don't like to let our job define what our life is. There is much more to it or there ought to be (and some people are very frustrated when it isn't). So letting our work define even who we are friends with can be seen as a nightmare. Plus, just as job and sexlife don't go well together, job and friends can have its dangers too. That way be why some people might limit their in interactions there to light friendship (if any).
I think the "no friendship at work" thing might come from how people are brought up too. My dad's best friends were mostly from work, but my mom always thought making friends with coworkers was super weird, hence never got such friends. Local culture is also a factor (people from the North seem more friendly than people from the South, at first). I lived in many places in France and made friends everywhere, but it's rarely effortless (unless you click from the start). Most of my best friends are from work, although some told me "now we can be real friends" when we became no longer colleagues (and I was "whaaat? Weren't we real friends already?"). Now, I've been living in Copenhagen for 9 years, and I hardly have any Danish friend. Some Danes actually told me than they did not want new friends, too much work, they just want to keep a small group of friends from school, that's it. Even being fluent in Danish does not help. So comparing to Danes, French are an easy bunch!
stiggy8322 I lived in Paris and have been living in London for years...it's the same situation. People are friendly at work but the most they will do is have a drink in the pub on a Friday after work. It's not a real friendship imo. I think it has something to do with big cities and also someone's personality too.
Everyone here should come to Winnipeg, Manitoba in Canada. Not the number one attraction for tourists or emigres, but for friendliness it is tops. If you join a company someone will invite you to the family barbecue the next week, someone will invite you to see a movie. Neighbours will be offering help. Even servers in restaurants ask what you would like to order as if they care that you haven't eaten and would love to bring you something.
Yeah I'm really confused by your experiences as well. This is my second time living here and we have been here this time two years and have probably more French/Parisian friends that non. I find the expats less interested in being day to day friends. Like they just want to catch up when they don't have visitors or their real friends from home here. With the French friends they are asking us to go out with them, go on picnics etc etc every week to the point we often worry about saying we can't. Interesting that you've had that experience, sorry to hear. Maybe I have to introduce you to our French friends. 😀🇫🇷
The French insularity of personal relationships and difficulty of making personal friendships is notable to many others as well, and mentioned in many 'expat' experience books (From Paris To The Moon, Paris I Love You, But You're Bringing Me Down, and even from 1930's books by MFK Fisher, a pre-eminent American Food Writer). I would be so depressed, as many others can be, by this cultural difference...
I am Indian living in Netherlands and we also feel the same way here. It's hard to make friends with Dutch. Jusy like you said we feel like as we are "chasing" them. Good video!
I grew up in Switzerland as a kid then moved to France until the end of University. Then I was back in Switzerland. At first, I had no friends and it was very difficult to make new ones. A colleague of mine even said "I'm not here to make friends". So... I hear you. Then I started playing taiko, I started getting involved in re-enactment and everything changed. There wasn't this work/private life separation. In then end, it all worked out. I have a great network of friends. Some I can call in the middle of the night if I need to. And the colleague I mentioned (and a few others) became my friend as well. We still see each other a few times a year even though we don't work together anymore. Good luck with everything!
This is so true: here you get stuck with your college friends for life! And it’s a shame. I made new friends only when I learned Italian here in Paris; I made friends with other students and some Italian teachers, and I now enjoy much more spending time with them than with my old friends with whom I have less and less things in common.
Usually, when I'm looking for new friends it's mostly because I failed with my previous ones...and by failed I mean got lost, either because they gave up themselves and left me alone or "au contraire" I'm the one who cut off the lines and get rid of them myself. It happened almost everytime I reached a new level in my life and, to be honest...I got much more left from people I liked than I did to others from the beginning, until I became an adult and, well...I realized then, after 10 years working on it, without any help, just thinking alone for myself, only people truely able to bring me useful or nice things matters to me. Since a few years now, I chosed a way to get rid myself from every people I considered both useless and not nice enough for me. Then I just got used with this and I never regret anything about it. I'm able to bury each part of my past peace by peace when I finally learnt to never turn back anymore over people I once knew no matter what I could have lived with them. No more remorse. No more shame. No more pity. And I feel so good and so much greater now ! Friends is just an option. Friends never remain forever. It's just like a superstition. Like weddings, children and family. These are some tools society wants us to get just to do like the stupid noisy herd. Thinking for others is always disappointing. The best way to stop being disappointed is to think for yourself, because if you don't, nobody is going to do it for you. No one shall never give you a hand for that. Never expecting help when you really need it, because it never happens when you're in serious trouble. Fight for yourself, save yourself or you will be crushed, stamped and broken by the wild herd. This advice is the best somebody can ever give you.
The 'no eye contact' thing is SO true, and it is not just parisien but everywhere in France, you feel so ignored...I had this situation all the time, when I was not able to well understand French or things people were talking about
#5 "Hard to get in the conversation" : Je suis très surpris de cette remarque car (il me semble que) c'est exactement la même chose dans tous les pays et toutes les langues ! J'ai vécu en Angleterre et aux États-Unis et, là-bas, personne n'a jamais parlé français pour me permettre de suivre une conversation ! Sauf à ma demande, bien sûr, pour clarifier une expression ou un mot difficile. Quand tu arrives et que tu es débutant, tu ne peux pas t'attendre à ce que les gens se mettent à ton niveau de langue. C'est à toi de te mettre au leur. On ne peut pas ralentir la fête pour te permettre de suivre ! C'est aussi pour cela qu'il est parfois difficile de se faire des amis, car lorsque la communication est difficile, tout devient difficile : il faut expliquer les plaisanteries, parler lentement, la spontanéité disparaît, la subtilité aussi, et on se lasse rapidement de discuter uniquement de sujets simples et basiques, etc.
How cool would it be to have a video with a French person that has an experience in NZ ? It'd be an awesome way to share and compare experiences and points of view !
The fact that making friends need a lot of time and effort is obvious. Otherwise, it is just a fake friendship, an acquaintance at best. In Anglo-Saxon countries, I just don't get how people can tolerate superficial relationships and call that friendship when actually there is no real bond. Bonding requires time and effort. And also, I see a huge difference between using someone as an emotional tampon and a friend. Friends are people that can help us, but they don't have to support our emotional distress.
Hi, I loved this conversation. My French partner explained that in France there are levels of friendship. A copine is a level of friend you know socially who can't become an amie until you've assessed each other over time to be trustworthy. I've been going back and forth to France now for 16 years and initially only had friends from my partners childhood who were so reserved toward me until they've learnt to trust me. Since spending more time there we have however made many new friends to my surprise. No initiation period required for some reason. Don't be tricked like I was though, that if I hosting in home One is very much included as the French are so well mannered and would never consider ignoring their host. I realised this when we dined at another home and the same guest who had pampered me as the host switched the attention to the new host which left me feeling a little flawed realising that we were not as bonded as I had first thought haha! My younger brother in law tells me things are changing in France and that the rules are not as ridged as they once were. We are in south west France in a holiday town so potentially more relaxed than Paris even though we have many Parisienne expats here.
Living in Paris for 6 years with a child, so the natural network would be the school parents. You would maybe think that would be easy, but it's also a mindfield . Various examples of French rudeness, e.g asking for recommendations on activities for their kids, me sending ideas/links, and not even getting a simple 'thank you' .Another Mum always saying we need to invite you to our country home, but never actually making the invite, Ive never hinted that I would actually be interested (as not actually wanting to go to their country pile) but she is compelled to mention it each time I see her,which is only once or twice per year at the school fete. Other parents more than happy that their child is invited to our home, but they will never reciprocate, can invite their kid to ours 10 times and not an invite back unless I get my son to say to their kid at school. The Parisiens are lazy, selfish and very egotistical, they know your name but send a text with 'Hello !!" good gawd is it really difficult to write someones name when they have a child at the same school or class as theirs? I think they are basically very insecure which is why the need to be seduced in friendship, they need to be reassured to such a level, hence why you have to make the request all the time for a meet up.... they are not all that. I have friendships with parents who are either foreign or mixed French/other nationality as the French/French parents are too insecure to have a normal evolving friendship....Otherwise socialising with other foreigners is just a much more pleasant experience by a long long way.
This is a great video; great topic!! I have always loved the French language, the French architecture, furniture, everything; since I was very young. I had the opportunity to visit Paris and also southern France, (Grenoble), and found them to be somewhat different. This video explains a lot of what I found so different - even uncomfortable - when I was in Paris. I still loved it though. As I listened to your conversation and you explained how different the norms for Australia and New Zealand are, compared to France, I completely related to the norms from your countries. Thanks again you guys, great video!!
I'm Australian too and in my experience, number 5 is very true! In Australia if we had a foreigner with us in a group we would normally ask them lots of questions and try to make sure to include them in the conversation. We would explain who any people brought up were to make sure they could follow along. But in France I often found myself stuck observing conversations about people and places and events I didn't know. My colleagues acted like I wasn't even there. But I think maybe in France if you don't "force" yourself into the conversation (or, what we would consider to be forcing in Australia and NZ), then they assume that you're not really that interested in talking to them. Idk. Also, as a linguistics student I've read some studies that suggest that French people do talk over the top of each other more than people in anglophone cultures do, and that it's perceived differently as well. It would seem that there are times when we'd consider it rude to interrupt, but for them it'd be normal to do that, and it apparently just makes the conversation more fun and lively.
Once again I deeply enjoyed watching your videos and specifically listen to your opinion on differencies, drawing parallels between your original culture and our french one. I also appreciate parisians and the rest of France aren't entirely compared in your words or videos' titles because, you're right, behaviours can be extremely different on some matters. I think you're right in your observations most of the time and, as a French guy who's been travelling around quite a bit in the last decade (amongst others, Aussie & the UK, where I've respectively spent almost a year in each of these destinations), I find it absolutely interesting to listen to your way of apprehending these differencies in a, I think, very respectful way at the end of the day! Thanks for sharing with such an accurate and tolerant eye! ;-) Best, X
I think in general, it’s hard to make friends as an adult unless you have kids and your potential friends have kids - especially if they go to the same school.
Hey! Expat living in Paris here! I kinda disagree with what you said about work place friends. I think it really depends on the type of job. I've been a consultant in a Big Four for three weeks and a half and I've made a lot of friends here, some of which have quitted the job since then but we still see each other every two weeks or so. Before that, 5 years ago I was an intern at a research facility (admittedly not in Paris) and I'm still in touch with the friends I made there. Maybe the common thing between these two experiences is that we were a group of people having roughly the same age and the same background.
French have very few friends, like in general no more than five or six. Those friends are for life (the ones you can call in the middle of the night) and it's very difficult to make this type of friendship, that's why it's mostly friends from school. And then you have much more what I call "potes",( buddies maybe ?) Which arr people you can go out with for a drink, that you can see at parties etc but you don't share anything really persona. And then there is the "connaissances", which are friends of friends, people at work, etc. You see them every now and then, it's almost always by chance, and it's nice to see them, but it never goes further than that. At least it's my personal experience as parisian hahaha
Well, it takes years ! Sometimes, even people that you for like six or seven years from school, in the end, they reveal themselves not to be friends but yeah, just "potes". But don't despair ! Eventually, you will make really faithfull french friends :p
What happens when friends move to another city, or country? What happens when you no longer see life and values the same way? Maybe someone decides to become more deeply religious or not believe in the same religion at all. Or one maybe wants to convert to Buddhism? What about friends who might be great at sharing the same sense of humour or loving the same sports, but are indifferent or judgmental to problems you might be having and you begin to feel very alone with them? Some friends are toxic. Some are very demanding. Some are very indifferent. What happens when an old friend really hates your new spouse? What happens when you no longer care about the same things? One might become very fixated on gardening for instance. Another one becomes interested in social justice and now you find you have nothing to talk about. People don't remain the same all their life long.
@@RadiantSkin well, again in my personal experience, my best friend lives in Brittany, while I live in Paris. We only see each other during vacations, but the fact remains that she is still the person that knows me the best. When you have a true friend, distance doesn't matter. We've been friend for 19 years. As for values, I have several friends that are in the right of the political spectrum, and I am very much at the left. As long as you respect each other point of vue, and that you are willing to debate, there is no problem. But of course if one of my friends becomes racist, or homophobe, or hateful, and basically if our values clash to much I suppose that I will no longer be friends with this person. But it is a rare occurence, from what I know. Oh, and you've mentionned religion : in France, it's a very private thing. And half of the population is atheist so it's not really a problem. It would only become a problem if religion causes the person to become intolerant to other beliefs and opinions. And I don't know for you, but, when you are a group of friend, you tend to evolve alongside each other, and because you spend time with them, you influence them and they influence you, no ? So I don't see that as a problem. My best friend and I don't have the same interests, but we share wonderful memories and we love to help each other, and listen about each other interests because it's always cool to listen about the passion of others. That's what makes a real friendship in my opinion. A toxic relationship would be when your friend doesn't want to listen to you anymore, and only cares about himself and is judgemental about what you like. Sorry for the messy response, I hope that I responded to what you said
@@gwenaellemendieta2815 I didn't mean to say that you couldn't keep the same friends you've had from childhood, but life takes you in different directions. People travel much greater distances today than they did in the past. They can have careers that take them all over the country, or the world. It's not unusual to make new friends and lose touch with old ones. You mentioned "racist, or homophobe, or hateful". Often people don't know that about their friends until they encounter a situation, or political position that brings it out. A person can be wonderful with you, but terrible with another person. Often we don't know who our true friends are until we experience a crisis. I am just trying to say that if you live a long life, being open to new friendships should be an option. With the world currently in so much in turmoil strangers are likely to become neighbours, or members of organizations you belong to. I find it strange that some people close the door at a certain age and then say no thank you to whoever else they meet.
@@krystynahunt5153 Oh, ok my bad, I didn't understand you point at first ! Having only a few real friends doesn't mean that you are absolutely against new friendships ! I've had a lot of friendships from school that faded away, but that's what I meant when I said that sometimes people reveal themselves as only "potes". And of course, I've met, as everyone, a lot of new people, in university for exemple. But since it's been only a few years, for now, it's only "potes", I will only know that they are friend if the friendship lasts over the years, if we still see each other after school, etc. And about what you said about not knowing everything about your friends, well, I only consider as friend the ones that I know all of those things. Like I've seen them, and hear about how they act with other people, and I know perfectly where they stand on important things, on values that I consider non negociable. It's not a real friend if you don't even know if he's an homophobe, or things like that. If you don't know this things, then it's people that are only "potes", people that you enjoy being with, but maybe will fade away with time
Oh I'm sad you have difficulties to meet and have strong friendship in France. I'm agree with both of you it's hard, even for a french person but as you said when you had a strong relationship with someone, it can last forever. For exemple I come from countryside, and I grew up with most of the same persons from my two years old to my 18, as you said when you have a circle of friends for more than 15years it can be tough to foreigners to be invited in. Now I'm 24 but I still see some of my "old" friends, sometimes I haven't see them since 4 or 5 years, give some news once or twice a year, but when I see them again it's like we never had been apart. Some moved to others countries, others cities and it became a network. If I travel and know some of my formers relatives are around I call them and it's a pleasure to share these few moments. I'm totally agree about frienship at work, in some fields it's easier but almost non-existent as soon as there's a bit of hierarchy. But i'm quite surprised by the rudness of your coworkers, I hope it's just a parisian thing ;) Love your videos!
To be fair I've had foreigners (and Frenchies) say the same thing about Kiwis... Loving your blog BTW I've lived in Wallonie and Lille and it's great hearing your stories.
I had a French roommate in the States who didn't make a single friend in the States. Instead, he invited his friends from France to visit him in the States. He said and I'd also heard that French people keep the friends they have from elementary or middle school and have zero interest in making new friends. However, it's different among people in Paris from the African Diaspora. Very friendly and happy to make friends with foreigners and others.
Hello! I'am an American living in the French countryside "la France profonde" as many french people call it here ;) and have had a very similar experience. I'm totally bilingual in French and have almost no accent so most people don't even realize I'm foreign aside from my physical appearance which gives it away (I'm Asian American). Being bilingual however, has not made my process any easier contrary to popular belief. I've been here for almost 3 years now (and previously in Lyon and also in Paris) but find that overall it has been really difficult to make friends from all of the points you mentioned- I will only say that many French people I know are friends with a couple of their colleagues but as a whole, they keep most of it separate. I can totally relate though to SO many French people not making any eye contact whatsoever while having an entire conversation with my husband, and me just standing there like.... hello??? And yes, it has been a process to learn how to impose myself and develop extremely tough skin and the confidence to sometimes interrupt a conversation or constantly bring myself back in- which as you both know, are NOT "anglo" cultural norms. To be honest, I actually find living in the countryside even more difficult than making friends in the city. People in the countryside all know each other and are very closed off to outsiders- even French people who come from different regions or areas. It definitely takes a lot of time, and now as I'm going on 3 years of being here I finally feel that when I go to an event or any kind of outing, people are just starting to say hi to me and to take interest in me, and it feels sincere and very warm and kind, BUT it did take THREE years to get to this point!
Kimberly Lecointre Totally agree! I’m french myself dont even think why .. Keep France as a country to enjoy forget about theirs current citizens they’re too narrow minded and brainwashed.. happy to get away
This was so much fun to watch ! I truly enjoyed it !! I think you did hit the spot when you guys mentionned the fact that friends in France are meant to be for life ( not all friends will be but the idea is that it should). I think, anglo-saxons in general, especially americans, but it works for aussies too , are really into the friendships of the "now" like i need somebody to be my friend now but it is for that specific time. Then life moves on. I have made friends in france that i still contact regularly and ( that i can also call at midnite if i need to!!! seriously, friends can be contacted at no time !! you are not being over judgy Rosie. ).
Please no mistake : parisians and French are two different things. There are so many French people waiting to meet an expat, to share experiences etc. I am French and I find parisians so different than other people in France! We also have a different rythm of life outside Paris, in Paris everything goes faster I think. I am living in Strasbourg and two of my ex colleagues are now my best friends, and they were during the time I worked there as well. I would like to meet expats because I have always been interested in knowing a new culture etc but it is so hard! I really like your videos! Thank you for sharing your experience :)
Man, every single one of your videos make me want to work abroad so badly ^^ Also, they make me feel like I'm the least French Frenchman of all times Q.Q
The part about making new friends is the same in the UK. I suspect it is very common in many countries, you make friends at UNI or earlier, and you keep them for life. Other people that you meet later in life are just acquaintances. Also from my experience, people speaking their language exclusively and not paying attention to those who are not fluent in the group, is a common behaviour, I've seen it happening over and over with French, British, Spanish, Argentinian...
I must say, French people take friendship to a deeper level. Here in the US, it's all smile, you meet people at parties and you think how friendly everybody is, when it's time to go, everybody is hugging, it's all love and then your hear " we should get together sometime!" how many times have I heard this sentence? but it really never happened...To me it sounds like a joke, so I go along and say"sure", basically I find the meaning of "friends" a bit superficial, I don't know if it's an Anglo thing or what?. That's my two bit :>)
I lived in Paris for 15 years and developed one close friend and several acquaintances. I agree with your comments but I do believe that most of them are applicable to any large international city. People come and go and many develop a network of several others, always realizing that many folks will move on after 2 or 3 years. I would add that if you become friends with French people it is truly regarded as a friendship for life so you really want to be careful on your side about who you want to become more intimate with.
Man I really was meant to be French. I dont try to make friends at work on purpose because I want my lives separate. Thats not to say I wont be nice to collegues or in some cases Ill keep a relationship going after I leave that job and it becomes a friendship. Im American, so I feel like its normal for most adults to have the majority of their friends be work friends. Not me though. I have many hobbies I make friends through. The last thing I want to do is have all my life be spent with those few collegues 24/7
I am French, but I've lived for the last 5 years in Canada, and I feel like I've been influenced in many ways by the culture in which I live. And my way of socializing with strangers has definitely changed. I moved to a place where I barely knew anyone, and I didn't just want to go hang out with other French people (what's the point of living abroad then?) so I had to start to be more social and I realized that making friends as an adult is very hard. Unconsciously, I adapted my social behaviour and adopted a more Canadian one (which I think is closer to the one from Australia and New Zealand), and I started to create more opportunities for myself to meet new people, and to be much more open and warm to strangers that I met. And it worked! And now, when I go back to France for a few weeks, I really feel a disconnection and a reversed culture shock with other French people. It's weird to say, but I don't feel completely French anymore. There are things about the French way of doing things that I don't like, and I've changed them. But I needed to spend time abroad to realize how I behaved and why I didn't like it anymore. So maybe you should look for French people that have had a similar experience as mine. I know that I would love to be friends with you if I lived in Paris, and I would definitely ask you personal questions about your experience and your point of view on things :P
François Talbot - Travel broadens the mind and you have experienced what it's like to be a stranger in a new city so you have had to make an effort to make friends or be lonely. If you were born and grew up in Paris then you already have a bunch of friends and family and cousins, so some Parisiens don't make any effort to make new friends because they have enough already, but I think that is very narrow minded and shows a lack of interest in other peoples cultures and countries. I find people from other countries facinating and love having a variety of friends from around the world. That's what makes life interesting.
I am French and have lived on and off in the US for a total of over 12 years. So, I may look at the French with somewhat of an American eye. It is extremely difficult to make friends in Paris, not in France in general. All friendships start with making acquaintances. And many conditions must be met just to have acquaintances: proximity, repeated contacts, any pretext that makes it look like you are not looking for anything specific from the person. After many years of this, something extraordinary and memorable, most likely a hardship, may happen and get the acquaintance closer. The beginning of a friendship may happen then. An alternative would be to meet a former acquaintance in a completely new setting. What they have in common may bring them closer to one another. An example of this would be former school mates, or former colleagues, or 2 persons from the same hometown displaced... From there, it will become easy and possible to move on and do things together. Friendship may settle in shortly and become long term. This sounds like it would be almost impossible to make friends! But, there are ways around it like sharing interests - ie going to the same dance class. Also, all social classes do not behave in this way. It is much easier to make friends within the lower class segment of society than it is in the middle. Bottom line, French people are shy, act as if introverted and are terrorized at being socially scolded. Unfortunately, after years of living through this hell, they end up internalizing and owning the problem that was imposed on them by their social environment. On the other hand, I find Americans open, happy, welcoming and on the whole open to others, including foreigners. USA 10 points, and wins.
I have to disagree with the American part. As an American myself, I find most Americans to be only surface-friendly. It's not "fake" the way some Europeans might describe it. When an American is being warm and friendly to you, it's sincere but it really has nothing to do with wanting any sort of relationship with you. It's just being nice. Friendships are often formed from childhood or if you hung out with the same people from high school. Americans tend to make friends through common interests or activities.... true deep friendships are very difficult because most Americans aren't comfortable talking about deep or personal issues.
@@knucklehoagies Jay P Jay P I must agree with you. Americans are often surface friendly only. But, I find that to not be surface unfriendly from the start gives a great head start for building a friendship quickly. I find Parisians to be very surface unfriendly. For many, it's just a show they put on derived from copying the crowd around them.
Hi Rosie, I've been living in France for 27 years now and I'd say that the French women don't want to be friends with you as you are competition. They're scared you'll take their boyfriends / husbands. I've noticed that when the French go out they go out as a couple. If a French woman goes out alone or with another female friend, it looks to the French as if she's out on the prowl...However, it is pretty easy to become friendly with the French men, as the French men love being flirty, this is seen as normal behaviour. It probably will never become a real friendship though because French men like hanging out with women for sex. The friends I have and who I've kept, over here, are all "foreign" in some way. I have a friend who's French but her parents are Italian, and she does couch surfing and travels to Italy a lot, another friend who's also French but spent her childhood in New Zealand, another friend who's French but lived in the USA for 10 years. I hope this doesn't sound too cynical but I really think that this is the reason. I so crave going back to the UK for the friendliness factor and it seems very bleak sometimes when I come back...I admire you for your understanding of the French and giving them the benefit of the doubt. I just think they're rude and unfriendly.
Did you notice that French women also like to flirt with your boyfriend? Especially if you're not French. If your from the u.k like me then you should know we don't see flirting as a game like French people do. I had to remind a certain French woman that she's not in her country and her actions could result in her getting hurt..
this is so funny because i'm an expat but i'm not french neither New Zealander ..... i'm Algerian married to an american, and I found it so hard at first ( for more than two years lol) to make friends here , and according to what you say Americans have your same culture it's seams... like regarding friendship, My husband keeps calling some people we know friends while we only have been out with them a few times so when I tell him that I don't consider them friends yet, he doesn't get it.... but also, I find that here in the US people are so quick to be friendly with you but in reality they're not friend's they're like occasion friends .... to me, all this adds on the beauty of human-beings
Really relatable video...I feel like you really have to not only put yourself out there fully, and try really hard to connect with people, but that you also have to be prepared for the rejection just like you said in reason #2! It was a lot to get used to, especially coming from the friendly American culture!
Hello! I'm from Nice, and I think we have different definitions of the word "friend". Here in France, we call someone a friend (amis) when we feel like we can talk to them about EVERYTHING (mostly complain ;) ). And we use the word "copain/copine" for those we appreciate but don't feel the need to talk to them outside of work or uni... And that's true, we are more demanding. We like knowing the other one cares about us, and when they do not show any interest in us (how we are, what we like etc), we kind of let them go... Great video and great topic, as usual! Thank you
I had exactly the opposite experience and that's maybe because I am a guy and because of the work I did. I lived and worked there twice, in Paris. The French treated me with as much kindness and hospitality and friendship as I could possibly wish. They were sometimes more attentive and edifying than my own family back home. I became more confident. TheCo-workers had me home for supper to meet their families or would suggest weekend entertainment events I would never have discovered on my own. I regret that I was the one who let these friendships lapse. Though I became fluent at speaking, I was too ashamed at how poorly I wrote. It was the era before Facebook and Skype. The only practical way to stay in touch was by mail.
I'm happy to keep my work life and my personal life separate. I will happily chat with them at work but I don't generally see my work colleagues on the weekend. I'm okay with that because I don't want any issues in my personal life, spilling into my work life.
As a foreigner living in Australia and actually, i heard from my uni peers that they "don't want or need new friends because they already have friends from primary and high school". Also one uni acquaintance said 'no point of investing time into friendship because people will leave eventually or they will get a girlfriend or boyfriend and will leave". Also later meeting people in the pub, sure we'd become friends go on hikes, to restaurants, pubs, cafes, restaurants, concerts, dinners, bbqs etc...but it's all about having "fun" and good time.. but in reality very weak friendships as never with any personal chats about life, family, goals etc. Very weak friendships. You discover they aren't real true friends when you get sick or are depressed or sad about your family member dying. There is just no support. Unless you want to ignore all your life problems and thoughts and switch off just for fun. Some say not to bother turning up to a party or catch up with friends if you are in a bad mood because people should leave personal life out of it so not to ruin other people's life/mood. Also there is a big class divide where depending on your socioeconomic status, is which part of city you live in and who you get to interact with. There is very little to no class overlap. Also people tend to stay in their ethnic groups. My Indian taxi driver was giving me a sad story about wanting Australian friends but none were interested in being friends with him. Another Asian uni friend said "no i have pleanty of Australians" but meeting them, not one was anglo/of British heritage...all were Indian, Polish, Italian or Greek. Ive been told often when going out "where are the Australians". We'd be a group of 30 in pub and not one Australian. Or maybe one token one from Interstate due to work or uni or something. Easier to make friends with other "new commers". And I've met plenty of Australian people saying "go back to where you came from". Also going to ethnics house you are given coffee, tea, snacks or meals. Be damn lucky to get a glass of water from Aussie. Few times I'd be dying of thirst and I'd feel rude asking but i just couldn't survive without water, and they'd say "well get it yourself ". I found it quite shocking and rude, as i can't just go through "friends" house looking for kitchen or clean glass or cup. Few times I'd have friends for many years and then i see their house, but get no hospitality. And those who eventually learn from others later behave like they were always like it, which isn't true ..or those with some hospitality tend to be upper class snobs. Seems upper class snobs have some hospitality skills but then act really snobby or even degrading, based on assumption of class/culture as if discovering some hospitality is equivalent to discovering electricity. But they don't really realise they would be considered really rude just about anywhere else in Europe...or Asia or anywhere else really. Also I'd buy Australias a coffee or beer 1000 times, many would never buy me one. They'd just say "oh thanks you are really nice", but it would never occur to them to do the same. I clearly remember one uni friend would always accept my food and after 1000 times he offered me 1/10th of one candy he bought out of another 8 candies. Also this has happened 100000 times. I buy chips, if i offer Australian person chips they'll often say "really?" And take a handful or 80% of my chips or.. even say "you don't want any?" With a puzzled look on their face as they take most or all of it, leaving me hungry. I've also noticed if you meet a "nice" Australian they will offer you "one chip" which i find extremely rude. People in high schools and universities are totally... uncultured/no manners. This never happens with any other cultures. I've offered chips to Asians, Europeans, Africans, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners..not one has ever assumed i didnt want my chips and to take all my chips. Not once*. They'll take one or few. Then ill have some and offer them more, so we share equally. I'd say most Australians who call lower class Australians bogans are often bogans themselves... by world standards eg coffee/food sharing. P.S. Chips incidents happened 10000 times with different people. Some eventually learn by age 30 or 40 if they start to hangout with people of other cultures. And as to why i never said anything re chips being taken away by..savages.. well.. i felt shocked and i felt too rude to say anything. Too embarrassed. What do you say anyway? Most Australian men and women never wash their hands after going to the toilet so i wouldn't want them to drop chips back into bag anyway. Memory of their hands being overfilled with my chips leaving me shit all.. is heavily engraved into my mind. Or some are really weird, was actually discussing this with a French person, saying we had same experiences, one being, offer to buy a someone from uni a coffee when we meet for catch up but they get all strange and decline because they think we want something from them, or they offer us money. Very odd. Also I go to to someones house for party, or birthday, i bring them bottle of wine. They open it to share with me. Which i find odd. They can't seem to understand concept of giving someone a gift without wanting to share it.
I was raised in a French - USA "mixed family" (French mother, American father)and my siblings and I were raised in France for part of our lives. I feel that all of your points are spot on and quite valid. You are to be commended for making them in a way that is not critical or judgmental.
What I was raised to see was
1) in general, almost all French people find it super important to be polite, and considerate. On the other hand, they do not find it a virtue to get friendly or personal with people they don't know. Two French families can live next door to each other for 50 years, without ever going beyond a proper "Bonjour" and "Au revoir", and neither family will think the worse of the other for it.
2) friends tend to be friends for life, like family, and it will not matter if they are widely apart on the political level, religion, or anything else, they argue hard, and then sit down at the family dinner table every Sunday and have a good time laughing about it all
3) I think the French personality tends to be somewhat perfectionistic, starting with their school experience. The teachers are tough and can grade you down for bad handwriting, improper spelling, incorrect conjugations, etc, etc. This seems to lead to a general fear of being judged harshly if you make even the slightest mistake or faux pas. This means you really have to trust that your friends are going to stick by you no matter what. I think that there is a general lack of self confidence underlying a lot of people's feelings.
4) Being "serieux" (serious) is valued way above being what they would see as silly and superficial. At the same time, seeing the ironies of life and being able to laugh about them is also highly valued.
My French relatives absolutely adored my American father, because although he was of a different culture, he always showed great interest and understanding of the French ways, and was loyal and accepting of them.
Bonjour! Is the politics discussion still possible between friends in France? I ask because politics has become so toxic here in North America that it's as sensitive a topic as money. Merci, in advance for any comment you may feel free to make.
One of the things I like about French friends, which I find different in the US, is that people here (in the US) want to appear totally supportive and won't agree with you when you say, made a faux pas with someone--they want to make you feel better and smooth it over. With French friends, they're more like "yes, you totally messed that up, you really blew it" which was shocking at first (so direct) but then they help you figure out how to fix it--they're totally on your side and show a lot of solidarity and sympathy since they can relate. You're also free to disagree with people and have engaging conversations whereas there's a fair amount of conflict avoidance in the US where sharp disagreements might mean a lack of solidarity here. I like the title of the blog, btw and the video was great.
I totally agree; I did my doctorate in French studies and I LOVED the Bernard Pivot/Apostrophes kind of atmosphere of heated debate in seninars and spontaneously when students and also profs got together informally. Also I was vr lucky in having a best friend (25 yrs on still best friend) who corrected literally everything I said and did and personally I found it marvelous -- I could also say to her, e.g. you're really being didactic here, and no harm no foul. So yes, to the frank French!
This video explains so much! I visited family in France about 9 years ago and hung out with my cousin's friends who were all my age, but aside from the "bisou bisou" greeting, no one cared to talk to me. I thought it was odd that they didn't want to speak to the 'new kid/foreigner'. I'm from Canada and we Canadians love talking to new people, especially if they come from other countries, regarless if there is a language barrier - we welcome everyone! I thought something was wrong with me, but from watching this video I realized that that's just how French people are. It all makes so much sense, the mystery has been solved! Hahaha! BTW, I'm really enjoying your channel! Keep up the great work :)
Friendship in France kind of means sharing a real complicity, speak often, see each other often, share our feelings, our fears, our hopes. I'm french and i'm suffering a lot from that. As I moved often when i was younger, very few people, now, are accepting me in their group of friends.
yes, thats exactly how i felt most of the time here in Ireland. Irish people are very friendly but they tend to want to keep it superficial ; no deep conversation as they close off directly.. and i always felt i was misunderstood.
Well there is real difference between your buddies and your friends. I see the buddy as a related person with some kind of good feeling. We share some stories, talk about the casual and common stuff, some time go to party, bar, theater but it's quite superficial and that's enough. We can have fun with buddies, but nothing very personnal, intimate. Friends in the other hand are the rare ppl you can share good and bad stuff, the ppl who is here when you're a wreck and for whom you'll be there to when needed.
I would say that friends are the family you choose, rare and precious. Buddies can move away and lose contact, it's a bit sad when it happens but, that's life, when a friend move far away you are still in touch and if you broke up with a friend it's a real bad moment because they are ppl that REALLY matter.
@@DC2022 interesting, how does one turn that buddy into a friend? when you close all the doors to develop to next stage of friendship? I guess the older you get the lonlier you get, that is especially true for immigrants.
@@sinsinsinat5377 how does a buddy become a friend? Well, naturally with people you feel more affinities. Time helps too. Overtime you discover more over your buddies, sometime for the better, sometime not. Some events will make you realize that your acquaintances with some people are in fact quite thin, and sometime that some of your buddies are more reliable and care about you than your own family.
What makes you lonelier is:
1_ your ability to bond with people. I know that look obvious but to have buddies and friends, you have to socialize a bit. And this is pretty tricky for some persons. It was for me. It can be tricky to do the first step, fail, doi it again...
2_ the - lack of - opporunities to meet people, not the age or the fact you're immigrant (language barrier is counted as an opportunity problem since you can't easily discuss with people). If you're on a close loop work-home-work and don't talk much to coworkers, you'll miss every oppportunities to meet people and find some you like.
3_ oh, and also luck. I met my best friend almost 30 years ago and it was pure random he was playing arcade, I was watching him performing well and we started to chat about the game. Today I see him like my brother.
I am sorry, that is sad.
Without even watching the whole video, here's my answer to the question: it's hard to make friends in France in general (not just Paris) as soon as you are not a student anymore. It's as simple as that (and for all I know it's also quite common anywhere in the world), usually the people you know best have spent years around you, which doesn't happen that often in our adult life. There is a limit to what you can do with colleagues, so even if you're very social it just won't be the same as the friends you've made in your 20s or earlier as a student. There is also a cultural thing about French people in general, people that are too friendly too quickly are often considered fake, rude, and/or quite intrusive. We usually like a little bit more finesse and discretion if we are to bond with someone. It's a huge topic though, I feel it's quite hard to explain through videos and comments alone. You're bringing very interesting topics though and it's nice to receive feedback from both sides. To be completely honest, as a Frenchman who lived abroad for a few years, ever since I came back to France I've been looking forward to meet strangers because I feel like I have more in common with them than with French people. Living abroad and discussing with strangers completely changes how you see things. :)
Axel Marnier - I liked most of your comment... Except maybe for the end. You don't really have to look for strangers to find open minded people. French people who traveled would most probably fit the mindset you're looking for just as well. Not to say you shouldn't talk to foreigners. All in all, I'd say people with open and curious mind are the best... And as far as I know, this has no nationality... Otherwise I'd be living there already. LOL
But doesn't that limit your growth as a person? Here in Canada we can have friends from school, but as you get older you learn new things, your experience broadens and often you're not the same person you were as a child, or teenager, or university student. New people in your life bring new things, new outlooks, new perspectives. I am so different than I was when I was young I couldn't imagine having the same friends. Also, if someone has problems or bad habits, then keeping the same friends is one way of never being able to get rid of those problems or bad habits because they fit in with your social group.
I relate to this so much!!! Thank you.
@@RadiantSkin Exactly right, it does.
@@RadiantSkin Exactly. I don't get how people can only have the friends that they made 20 years ago. I view life as a process of continuous growth and learning. Different stages of life require different versions of you. So interacting with and befriending all sorts of people at all stages can contribute towards your overall development as a human being and assist you because you could learn new things from these people and that could assist you in different aspects of your life.
I live in the Paris area, I am French and I just don't understand why it is not possible to make friends at work! That's ridiculous. Be my friend! :-)
I live in the US and Texas and people are kind of like that here they are not interested in making new friends they already have their friends and I feel really alone here
Parisians are generally arrogant imo, that's why I studied in a rural area and they're a lot more polite and cool
@@kellinmoore2146 In Tx, you got to love Texas deeply and sincerely, or they reject you. You start making friends, lots of them, when you feel you're one of them. It's the only prerequisite.
i live in Paris, ad that's absolutely TRUE
That's so nice of you
To be honest I've seen a lot of these things in Australia and Switzerland as well. It's probably down to moving somewhere new as an adult.
Very interesting! I'm French and currently in Bruxelles and I discussed about befriending colleagues with an other French at my work. She told me that at first she was uneasy with the idea of being friends with colleagues so maybe it is not just a parisian thing but more education. Young people are also more open to meet other (they are often better in English) and less "old school"
For the group that ignored you it happened to me in France even if I'm French, some people seems to not be very curious about new people.... And that a shame.
You're videos are great keep going!
And sorry for the broken English
well it's better not to screw your friend but colleague are fair game
I am French lad and I must say that feel very close to your approach of friendship than the parisian one. I love your RUclips page and your New Zealand accent is so nice! Keep going!
The thing to understand is that we consider friends as the family-you-choose. So it's a bit like choosing a partner for life, you take your time because you expect to get involved just about as much. Therefore, there are also lighter levels of friendship, when you just start lightly befriending someone, you'll keep out of subjects really considered private at first and with time and recognition that confidence goes both ways, the bonds will strengthen towards that family-like status. It's like the supposedly ideal pace for meeting a love partner applied to friendship, which is probably easier since you're not looking for sex on first date ...
Now, it's not because someone values one relationship that they're allowed to shun you away. I've seen and had this type of behavior in my 20s. We had a core group of strong friends with other people revolving around it. They tried to interact a lot more than we allowed them and the result today is that none of them is present anymore, the old group of friends got somewhat disbanded because people have moved away for their jobs. We still cherish each other but have to be open to new friendships from elsewhere. And I guess it's more or less the same story for everyone.
So, I'd say, just wait until life happened to those people you want to befriend, or target older people and I'm sure they'll be glad to be given an opportunity.
You don't have a national dish ? Just like we don't have a national hat. Same difference but some people seem not to have noticed. It's probably the thing I dislike the most about my country, the feeling that everybody is perched on poles on top of their high horses. Listen to french tourists abroad, we're always explaining how things are done differently in France, trying to explain how it might be fine over there but it's great over here. It seems like we're only interested in foreigners if it helps make us shine somehow. It's disgusting. Because we're sooo great, we have the best food, the best wine, the best cheese and the best chefs competing on TV. And who noticed we don't have any of the Google, Apple, Samsung ... no one. So I'd say, keep away from people who think like this, they can't value things properly so they won't give you any. Maybe now you understand why you should be picky about your friends here, too many retards around I dare say :D
Anyway, keep your smile and keep looking around, you'll find the right people eventually, I'm sure.
I also think this is a great comment that really explains how we go about friendship. I have 8 people that I consider "real friends". I have known them since I was 10 years old. Everyone is now distributed throughout the globe, but we still keep in touch and see each other if we're in the same place. I consider them my family. I share with them stuff that I would not share with anyone else (not even my sister!) - they know pretty much everything about me, and vice versa. I did make other friends later in life (Uni, for example) but these faded away - that just happens, even with real friends. I have always noticed that friendship in North American countries is much more about location and convenience: you count if you are in reach - as soon as you are out of reach (geographically) you are forgotten. On my end, I decided that I preferred having a few real friends than many "buddies", so to speak. In Canada though, I have a very large "network" of people that I care about. But since I met them much later in life, I don't share a lot of personal stuff with them, and the relationship probably won't last if I leave the city I am in.
Seems to me that you can relate this to "dating": I had no idea what that meant when I heard it in the US for the first time. Someone explained it, and the concept was still fuzzy. For me, if you went to the movie, or a bar, or a restaurant, or made arrangements to sit and watch TV eating ice cream with someone, and did that over the course of several days, weeks or months, that meant you were on your way to build a romantic relationship, and were not doing all of those things with someone else at the same time. In France, usually, if you kiss someone after having had all of these little moments, you can consider that you are in a relationship (meaning, an "exclusive" relationship). In North America, it seems that people can do this with several people at once, and then they pick who they prefer to officialize a "dating" relationship. I think friendships in France get built the same way than the "exclusive romantic relationship" I was mentioning before, which is why it is so hard to make real friends.
It is very true that French people compare themselves with the rest of the world. On my end, I have a very strong "compare and contrast" mindset that I consider fully linked to my French education. However, when I do it, it's more out of pure interest of understanding other cultures than wanting to feel superior. When my parents visit from France though, I must admit that sometimes, the way they speak about what they see in Canada can sound very judgmental. So, we have to walk a fine line and make sure that the way we compare ourselves with others is done in a healthy way.
I found the varying hair styles and dress styles pretty refreshing in North America compared to France, it shows that people affirm their uniqueness. For example, we don't have a huge tattoo culture in France; so, my parents get a huge culture shock when they come visit, because probably over 40% of people have tattoos (and lots of them) where I live.
I have been in Canada for 10 years now, and every year, it seems like I become a little more Canadian and a little less French. It's sad in a way, but I try to keep the best of both. Being an expat also makes you realize how much stuff is wrong in France, and how much stuff is great in France. It's much harder to get that perspective without the expat or multicultural experience.
ughhhh I agreed with everything you said untill the "Google, Apple, Samsung" part and the "retards" part like do you really need to be that offensive in a language that isn't even yours ??? And "Google, Apple, Samsung" are just really crappy companies spying on people, exploiting poor people (including children) from other countries to produce really cheap products to sell with really high prices to rich countries all of that while avoiding to pay any taxes in those countries they're making money from. So yeah maybe that's not such a bad thing that we don't "have" those (oh, wait ! we totally have those kind of companies !). But we're great war criminals helping our private corporations to sell death engines by getting involved in other countries politics, and then again we have our share of those awfull companies exploiting people around especially in africa and asia so you can stop whining.
Ce que je dis c'est que le fossé technologique s'agrandit, nous investissons trop peu dans les activités qui feront la richesse de demain. A la place, on se contente vanter et vendre notre culture du luxe. C'est du vent, une illusion, le pire pari sur l'avenir qu'on puisse faire. Et c'est complètement débile oui, quelle que soit la langue dans laquelle tu l'exprimes.
Very well said.
Usually French people have very few friends as "Friend" is the innermost circle of relations (sometimes closer than family or even partner).
French have buddies too but usually don't invest time in this kind of relationship as they know it won't last.
As many other aspects of French culture: quality over quantity.
This is so true!
Hi there! I’m from Kazakhstan living in France and I can totally relate to the frustration of making French friends… the concept and understanding of friendship is just different… I wouldn’t say it’s only Parisians though… I lived in Lyon and it’s the same thing… unfortunately, after 5 years of university studies in France I’ve 0 real French friend of my age…. I also think that their curiosity level is very low… Anyway, thanks for the video!
totally relate.
Candice's accent is no longer pure Australian. She has some French there.
Yours is the same. It's no longer pure Kiwi
Reminds me of my first English teacher, he was a New Zealander as well !
It's okay Rosie. I speak 99.98% English at home and I forget my words sometimes. It's not all bad.
Who in the freaking world cares
If you meet someone who sounds Australian but you’re not sure, ask them to use the word “check-in” in a sentence. If it sounds like they said “chicken,” they’re a kiwi!
I'm so happy that someone decided to make this video and that now I know it happens other places too. Denmark is second to last ranked every time they do expat satisfaction surveys (only one rank above xenophobic Switzerland) because of how hard it is to integrate due to a lot of the reasons you outlined here. I lived in Copenhagen for a year and it was so difficult to make friends, even with a Danish partner. My boyfriend is still friends with the people he met in kindergarten (!!) and to this day that's who his best friend is. I came back with no Danish friends whatsoever (and I did try, I took a year of languages classes before I even went). It's really difficult because people automatically categorize you as being foreign and therefore you're leaving so they shouldn't make an investment at all but that's just not how Americans/Kiwis/Aussies see it. I love having international friends but it seemed like because I was foreign I didn't have anything to offer. The most frustrating thing is that I am going back soon (less than a year) to do a master's degree and I'm trying to build a life for myself but they are already decided on the whole topic of whether or not they should spend any time on the relationship with you. It's like "I'm different than everyone else, I'm coming back!!!!" The attitude there is very french and they do think very highly of themselves and are therefore not that interested in other cultures. I was an exchange student in Germany and people are so excited to talk to you just because you come from some other place but I found nobody in Denmark shared that sentiment. I was very unlucky with living situations but at least people in Denmark make friends at their jobs, like seriously how would you not socialize outside of work with your colleagues? Hoping that my masters won't be as depressingly void of decent human interaction as my year abroad there.
Alden Rose Ahh yes! Nordic countries are routinely ranked the worst for expats’ life satisfaction. It’s incredibly hard to make friends there, you get lonely. My Italian friend is studying in Norway she’s currently experiencing what you’ve just outlined and she hates it.
Oh no that's so tough. The cultures are so different. Is your friend into sports? That's the only way to make friends with Norwegians unless you have a good circle of friends from your living situation or from work. From the Norwegians I've talked to most of them said that normally they would never talk to strangers but if you're out hiking then it's completely normal to talk to people. I found it hard to make friends with people my age in Copenhagen because a lot of the university aged people don't do much outside of drinking, studying, and going on the occasional weekend trip. It's really disappointing because where I'm from everyone (literally every single person I know) liked to go out hiking and skiing and that's a very easy way to meet people but not that many university aged students had developed well rounded hobbies that didn't involve drinking or partying. I don't mind drinking or partying but doing the same thing every single weekend gets so boring. I'm sure your friend is struggling with the paradox of not being able to socialize outside of drinking unless she's already participating in a sport.
Alden Rose ahh no, she’s not into sports at all. All of her friends are fellow expats. She’s not there for long just till the end of the summer so she’ll be fine.
Hi guys! As a Danish person, it really saddens me to hear this and I always pride myself of thinking that I am very welcoming and open to strangers - I even invited a complete stranger for brunch this winter because she was alone in Denmark for Christmas. But I also do know that this is not the case for everyone and us Danish people are suuuper into ourselves and our language. It's almost uncomfortable to speak English with foreigners even though virtually everyone speaks it here. Write me on here if you'd like to meet up sometime - I have some cool friends too who are not afraid of foreigners and there's always room for another one :)
I spent basically this entire video trying to pinpoint the exact differences between your accents 😂 Really interesting topic though! About French people being less interested in strangers, I think it also has to do with a sort of politeness. I get the impression that being too curious or asking more personal questions to people you don't know very well is considered invasive. Once you've survived all the effort of making the friendship, though, then pretty much any conversation topic is on the table 😜
This Rosie just effin this .
You have no idea how much this too plays a tremendous role. Once we turn on the "friend switch" pretty much any topic of conversation is allowed hence also why we are very selective.
I totally agree with this analyze Andrea! It somehow can be frustrating sometimes, but the french rules of politeness ask you not to be too intrusif at first: when meeting a new person, you have to "test the water" gradually and with caution before starting to bring up "sensitive" subjects like opinions etc.
Listen to the vowels. Im aussie :)
The vowels are all mixed up :)
This is exactly it!
Totally agree with you!! But not only in Paris! I'm Italian and I live in Antibes, in the south and after 4 years.. zero french friends! 😓😓 All people I knew at work, at language lessons didn't want to "continue" the relationship, they have their friends.. so sad!! Maybe in Paris there are more strangers to meet so it's a little bit better! Eh, c'est la vie!🤷🏻♀️
I think for foreigners and immigrants it’s easier to make friends with other foreigners and immigrants. I’m sorry it’s hard to make friends with native French people.
PS - I've been thinking some more about this topic, I think another issue is that you gave me the impression that you would call "friends" people you've only known for a short time just because you're friendly with them, hence "new friends" - whereas in France you wouldn't call a casual acquaintance, or a friend of a friend, a friend, that's a different "level", as others have also pointed out.
This morning I just witnessed a long conversation between my coworkers about what they expected from their friends, how they expected them to behave in certain situations, i.e. being in a new relationship, after getting married, having kids, etc; - so I think that generally speaking, the French take their friendships very seriously, it's a true commitment :)
Hi Rosie, nice video but i disagree about some things.
First, perhaps Candice "can't make friends" with her collegues but it depends on your Job. Personnaly, many friends i get are my collegues (i'm parisian, and perhaps i'm not objective because i don't work in a desk, but at the hospital. My engineers or commercials friends have friends in there job).
It's true that in France we prefer dissociate privacy and work but it's not incompatible. At work we talk about work (and life) and when we see eatch other out of work we talk about anything else. =)
Secondly, in France we don't make true friends so easily. I know for strangers we seem to be rude, impolite and "frozen" (i don't know how to say that) but it's just that we have a kind of distance with personn we don't know. We can speak with them but we won't hug them (just la bise for beeing polite). We need time because i think we prefer really know the other personn to make confidence. And personnaly i've many "potes" but 3 or 4 real friends in whom i'm totally trust. Friends for life ^^
And you're totally true, it's difficult for french with others frenchs to make real friends (so many "friend/french" word in this sentance).
The best advice i can give it's juste let do the time. Send sms with personn you're interested in, party with them, just take a drink in a bar or a "planche de charcuterie", or just go to " les quais de seines ou quais du canal saint martin" for speaking, eating and drinking a beer, wine or whatever you want.You'll se that time it's the better things, to know witch personn really worth it. (for example i had many friends in high school and when i was in university for medicine studies, i've lost many of them becausethey were not able to understand that I had to work and i couldn't go out. But, it's an evil for a good because now, only my true friends are stayed and i know i can count on them and they can call me at 2 a.m if they have a problem. (i've my friends and my "potes" it's not the same degree of friendship.)
For the French language. French people know speack english (not older personn but many of 20-40). I think we are really proud of our language, history...Etc and in a world where english culture is everywhere, i think we want to preserve our. If you don't speak french fluently but you know basics "bonjour, au revoir, merci s'il vous plait..." it's going to be more easily to be integrate because we see you make an effort so we want to make an effort for you (it's a kind of give-and-take). If you don't make this effort it's true we will be less inclined to engage in conversation. (So many etiquette in France ^^) When you're in the conversation you can tell us we speack too fast and you don't understand anything it's ok =)
And again, it's true that we have a network of "connaissance" (less than a "pote" but more than a stranger) we use some time for advice or anything else =)
it's just my opinion :)
Thank's again for youre video and sorry for my looooooong post and my approximate english.
missananas15 Really interesting comment. Thank you for taking the time to post it... lots of good advice there! :)
hey, that´s so interesting. I am from Germany and I feel we´re the same with being "frozen", as you put it.
I think you French people absolutely have the right to be proud of your language. I learnt it in school and am now able to have a conversation on a very modest level :-)
Lately though, a French guy I met in a third country, told me that he was kind of upsetted when foreigners tried to speak his language. I guess he wants to keep it all clean :-D Wheras I totally appreciate it when someone tries to speak my language. I mean, at least they make a effort. Now I am not so sure if I will ever speak French again, haha
Oh Val, please do ! Please continue speaking French (with me if you want), it is such a pleasure to have people trying to learn it ! This guy was just arrogant.. But most French people would be happy :)
Val L. I agree with Armance Duboscq. Don't let one guy with a bad attitude put you off. I've met loads of French people who were happy to help with my terrible French. He doesn't represent his entire country.
No problem =) may be others think something else ^^ If you have any question don't hesitate haha
This applies to the North of France too. Or perhaps the whole country. Try to hang out with other foreigners otherwise you won't get disappointed when you realize they're polite, they're funny, they love small talk, they invite you to their place to have an apéro, and guess what, they couldn't be any less interested in becoming your friends.
I’ve been and Paris for a few weeks and I’ve had all the same thoughts. It’s been very rough feeling like people don’t want to talk or be friends you. It’s perfectly logical and very sensible of them. But it’s just so culturally different from the United States and it’s felt very lonely and hard. I get nervous when speaking French and when they hear my accent and start speaking English. They are always well intentioned but it makes me feel like they don’t want to speak the language with me.
Maybe people in the United States need to be less sociable and happy all the time hahah. It makes for a rough cultural transition. I’ve tried to accept that they have a different ideas of friendship but I think it will take a while. I have a host family that is Moroccan and they have helped miles.
Sending love from Charonne ❤️💕
Hi. I've been through the same difficulties. Apparently the accent is a great deal here and it's very intimidating at the beginning. And making friends at work is like a great deal too. I felt very sad, lonely and disappointed when I realized, a year after I'd moved in to France, that my super kind and polite colleagues would never become my friends. Like, never. I come from Mexico so I don't see what the big deal is. I avoid small talk altogether now. Like I don't see the point anymore. It can be very tough. They're only open to foreigners when they're interested in them romantically.
I am from Australia and Lived in Europe for five years. I find that Australians have friendships and relationships that are more dispensable “flaky” like if they get a better offer they’ll go for that. I think friendships are more honest, genuine and committed on the European continent. They have a tier system as opposed to just “mates”.
Exactly.
Hi !
I had these exact same problems meeting new people when I lived in Australia (I'm french). People arenot interested in making new friends, and they just speak with each other so fast, it makes it really hard to find the time to say anything, it made me feel like I didn't belong. I was just sitting there listening silently, until I've had enough and left.
I guess that's what the language barier does. Only the most extroverted people can get past that. It creates some kind of "natural selection" in backpackers hostels, where only the most outgoing persons can fit in and befriend the natives. And there was no way I could compete =/
those peope are kind of rude and thus not people you should really want to make good friends with
That's the whole thing : they are not bad people, it's just more comfortable to think so. They have different values, a different mindset, different expectations about life in general and friendship in particular, that's all. It's just too bad for "us introverts" that this kind of people is so easy to find when you travel and outnumber the rest of us if you can't get to share anything with them.
Well, this video is several years old, so I'm not sure you'll still see it, but I'm from Dallas, Texas and here, everybody talks to everybody. I read somewhere that people from different cultures find it very odd the way Americans will strike up a conversation with a perfect stranger. I love striking up conversations with strangers. There's always something you can learn from them and really everybody is so interesting. In a way I've always thought strangers are the best people to talk to. If you say something shocking or offensive, you don't have to worry about it because you'll (most likely) never see them again. My best friend (we're in our sixties now) used to play dolls together and we're still very close. I have all kinds of friends from all over. That's the real spice of life. Getting to know all these different cultures and viewpoints and customs. At my church we have a festival in autumn and people come dressed in their native clothes and we have food from all these different cultures, Kenyan, Phillipeno, Mexican, Nigerian, Tamil (India), German, you name it. It's so much fun to try all these new foods (I'll pass on the fish-heads though ;-) and learn about their customs. Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver, the other gold. : )
I live in Belgium (American) and have had the same experience, even being married to a Belgian. The friend groups are already set and if you have the misfortune of arriving on the scene after university there will always be a limit to how much you'll be welcomed into their lives. I've had to have some tough conversations with my husband's friend group recently because the level of investment expected from me was equal to what they put in only to find myself ignored during conversations or excluded from key events between the girls too often. It got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore and didn't want to be around them. These are my husband's best friends and it's been hard on him to be in the middle too. I learned after a few years that I needed to branch out and make more expat friends who have been through similar things. One of his friends did have a real, honest conversation with me recently about my place in the group and how we can make things better, which I really appreciated, but I'm keeping my expectations low. They're very set in their ways and the status quo has worked great for them the past 17 years so I'm not expecting a profound change in my relationship with them. In any case, thank you for this post. It's been reassuring to see that other anglophone expats in francophone countries have been through the same thing and I can take it less personally!
I think you making your expat friends will be best.
Hi ! As a french person having leaved in the us two times I totally agree with your vision. You could generalize this to all french people even though the trend is clearly more significant in Paris. Even being French i sometimes feel like a stranger in my own country. When you move to a different french city the process is the same. Thank you for your bright analysis
It's not that French people aren't interested in others' cultures. We are usually shy so we just ask general questions in order not to sound impolite or that we are trying to pry into others' privacy.
In my experience, even in New York and
San Francisco, you are lucky to meet one new friend in 2 years. People, even dates and loves, come and go. Sad
Your experience is very interesting cause I’m a Parisian living in Australia since 3yrs and I have all the EXACT same complaints when it comes to making friends with Australian people. I often speak about that topic with my australian partner and tell him that French people are so much more welcoming, that they always ask questions, are interested by other cultures, that they are very happy to meet new people, etc... That’s quite eye opening haha !
Pauline haha interesting! I live in London and find Australians super open and outgoing, but maybe it's only the ones that travel who are like that. I haven't been to Australia yet so I don't have an impression of the "average Australian"
U should bring a french to explain why maybe they are like this !
Hi Rosie, as an English & French bi-national, I absolutely love your cultural videos and find that most of the things you say and have noticed about French culture are just spot on! This video is one of my favourites and you nailed it once again... I have been living second-time round in France now for the past 15 years and, as sad as it may sound, I can't say that I have many French friends and still find it so difficult to befriend people on a permanent basis... I have noticed how French people put a very high emphasis on family and spend lots of time with their parents and brothers and sisters, which saddens me as I have no family but it never seemed to bother me before coming back to France and listening to my work collegues go on and on about family events and gatherings... :-/ The other point as well is that in England and all the other countries I lived and worked in, I mostly always made my group of regular friends at work, which has turned out, as you quite cleverly noticed, to be impossible here. When people talk about their friends, they mostly all happen to be childhood or university friends. Every now and then I meet a person that I think it might be fun to become friends with but often, as you mentioned, I feel like I have to make all the friend-making efforts and sometimes it even feels rather disturbing really (no offense to lesbians), as if I have to chase after and woo the person into accepting to become friends which leads to me always inevitably giving up... Another point is that I find that most people here my age (in their early 40's), just hang out 90% of the time with their kids and spouses. I happen to be childless by choice and single - not by choice and because French people put so much emphasis on family and are so closed when it comes to making new friends, it just makes me feel awkward and lonely... My friends are mostly all expats... If you have discovered any clever tricks to befriend people in France, it would be really great if you could share them ! :-)
I could not survive in Paris ; always wanted to go but now not so much ; warmth, friendliness and hospitality is key in my families culture
The 5th point you made couldn’t be more accurate in my experience! I’ve spent hours sat with my boyfriend and his friends in silence as they all have a conversation amongst themselves
Wow it's really interesting to have a foreigner's perspective. As a french citizen it always seemed to me like people in other countries were friendlier (esp USA). It seems easier to make friends, especially as an adult. I could not understand why I had this feeling but this video made me realize why I was so confused. Now I understand why I want to leave France when I start working, people here just don't match my personality. More reserved, less friendly, less open to uncertainty and new experiences... I think meeting new people all the time is so important, otherwise you are not expanding your world and you keep the same narrow perspective on life :/
You are certainly ready for many travels
Salut!! I lived in a smaller town in France and I definitely found it hard to make friends! The people from that small town had their friends already and it was funny that all of the new friends I made were people who were also new to town and didn’t know anyone. My ex-bf was from that town and all his friends were from his teenage years. My level of french wasn’t a big issue.
So thankful for this video. It is very encouraging to hear that same problems are exist in other countries and not just in Denmark!!!! It helps not to take it so personally!!!
It is not that strict. Making general rules miss the point. I personally made friends at work but not many. We are picky and choose only genuine friendship. Here, friends are people we think we can rely on: quality versus quantity. It doesn't mean we can't be friendly with collegue.
Oh my God, thank you for this video! it's been almost 6 years that I am in Paris and still don't have this kind of friendship (like being there for a person when he/she has a meltdown etc.). Me too, I was questioning myself (what's wrong with me? SMH), but then I just got used to it - they have their clique.
Still hoping to find good friends though
@Rosie,
Je viens de regarder de nouveau une de tes anciennes vidéos "FRENCH CULTURE SHOCKS | 10 random first impressions".
Je me demande si tu ne serais pas plus heureuse dans une ville moyenne ou grande de province qu'à Paris. Tu y retrouverais une meilleure qualité de vie, plus de temps disponible, des gens moins stressés. Bref un style de vie beaucoup plus décontracté qui te rappellerait peut-être la Nouvelle-Zélande. Paris tu sais, c'est une ville spéciale. Les jeunes provinciaux y vont pour commencer leur carrière professionnelle et puis vers trente ans ou quarante ans, beaucoup s'en vont parce qu'ils en ont... marre. Fed up with Paris !
In Toulouse, you have Airbus company, the european aircraft constructor.
A huge british community is working there because they don't really need to speak french actually. Some of them have been living here for 10 years and they still struggle speaking french. So..... Paris is, of course, the city in France where you could have a lot of international/english speaking jobs opportunities, but it's not the only one ;)
@Brennos davick
Pas sur qu'elle veuille habiter au Havre.
Bordeaux c'est super sympa: il y a plein
d'entreprises dans la région, c'est assez jeune, c'est hyper relax, et la région (Arcachon & co.) est magnifique!
In Nantes, you could find easily, but on the specific topic of making friends, could be worse. A parisian
Bdx c'est exactement les mêmes pb que ce qu'elle a décrit dans la vidéo
I cannot say much for Australians or New Zealanders, but my experience in the US was quite the same. I specifically made an effort not to make friends with my co-nationals in the US, but my best friends always ended up being internationals. It is easy to have friendly talks with Americans, but never easy to become friends as you described. Even after you go out with them, or you've been to their home for a party/dinner, I never felt I had the same level friendship with Americans as I had with internationals. For instance, it was impossible to go spontaneous with my American friends; every time I wanted to meet, I needed to plan in advance (at least two weeks).
I used to think it is a cultural thing, but I think it has more to do with 'when' we make the friends; when we go there as adults, people there already have their friends. It is not surprising that most of my friends are internationals, because we were in the same situation: we were alone and needed to make friends. But Americans who lived there had already their inner circles, and I guess this also affects the nature of relationship with 'new friends' is: they make plans with new friends ahead of time, because they would not change their schedule or routine for them; instead save that possibility for their close friends/besties/inner circle however you wanna call them.
Exactly.
I'd say it's the same in the Uk ! I'm French and was an expat in London for 8 years, and it took me ages to make friends with locals. I managed, it was hard work, but really worth it ! But I agree French are hardwork in many ways. It was very difficult for me to come back home after all those years in the Uk. Like a culture shock, not ready for the French roughness.
And when you mention the fact that French tend to speak together in slang with no eye contact and no effort for the non French person in the group it is so very true !!! All my French friends were doing that to my non French friends, it was so annoying and lazy !!!!! I don't understand why we do that !!
It has nothing to do with being a Parisian or French, it’s just that it’s harder to make friends when you’re an adult.
I don’t think so. I’ve made friends in Paris but it is by far less common and natural than anywhere else I’ve lived. - They very much keep to groups they have known for many years in a way I’ve never witnessed in any other city or country.
I don't think that's true. I live in a fairly large city in the US, and I have made lasting friendships with coworkers at every job I've ever had. I've made friends with my children's friends' parents too, but I haven't managed to keep in touch with all of my childhood friends.
@@a5dr3-
I’ve heard that countries like Germany, Denmark, Switzerland (even Norway and Sweden) are worse when it comes to that, people/foreigners/migrants to these countries say how the locals almost exclusively stick to their friendship groups from primary school
We lived in Germany (stationed in Frankfurt) for over 3 years a long time ago and LOVED it! I had a 5mth old baby (boy) and my husband was an Army veterinarian. We both had conversational German language classes, I immediately began shopping and taking transportation around the city, I spoke to people and they LOVED our baby, us attempting to speak German with them, everyone was very friendly! We travelled all over Germany and into many other countries (especially France but not to Paris). We had all our friends and relatives visit us so we could take them around Europe, rather than us going back to the USA. Our son is now 37 (vs 5 months old) with a wife and 3 children of his own! I speak German and French but not "fluent" in either, we do very well but I tend to switch between German and French and visa versa. The Germans don't mind, the French do! I don't let it bother me, because I am happy to TRY to speak with people everywhere we go, if they don't like it, meh... We lived in Germany before the "wall" came down, we NEVER thought that would happen in our lifetime- it was the BIGGEST surprise when it finally happened and we were back in the USA... So nice to be able to travel to the eastern block countries that we could not when we lived there... I LOVED this video! I am relatively new subscriber and I love all your videos, especially about your marriage, congratulations! You speak french so well, I am very impressed with your willingness to live and work away from your home country, and not be afraid to have so many ADVENTURES! People who know us, especially our families are so shocked at how easily we fit into living abroad, I think it's just a willingness and excitement to explore and meet new people and see what some of the rest of the world does things :)
We talked about this reluctance of the French to befriend in my French study class (which was in a French school in the Paris area). What you mention here is all very true and I would second them.
1. Work and Family do not mix and yet because of that the work environment is very "stiff" when compared to most other western countries, interestingly it feels a bit more Asian in this regard.
2. The French friend clique thing seems to stem more from shared experiences combined with a fierce sense of independent entitlement. Your time is yours and whom you choose to share it with is your right which results in a very selective, deep, and exclusive club of friends. There is no friend zone. Just in or out of the micro-cliques.
3. The time it takes to penetrate the clique boundary is such a commitment that the process is what eats up the time. That is why environmental situations such as having to be in school, university, neighborhood together (conditions that last years) are what foster the clique pass. They are no more busy that anybody else. They don't put the effort into it.
4. I encountered that "lack of interest in things not-French" and the token questions. I did notice that most of them reference back to France in some way. The land area thing comes from the fact that France is one of the largest European countries, same with population, etc. The national dish comes from the emphasis on food in France, etc. If it is not French in some way they really don't care and will loop it back around to something French... it is all nationalistic egotism.
5. You hit the nail on the head with the "Every MAN for himself" in French conversation. The national obsession with the language as definition of being French runs so deep that there is a real defense of the language as a hallmark of the culture. Their need to prevent "foreign" words from polluting the language is well known. The belief that unless you are completely fluent you are not worth talking to is sadly true and was one of the greatest disappointments I encountered living in Paris.
6. Yes, French friends have a "network". They use their friends, in a good way. From another perspective it feels very calculated and not very deep, close but not too close. They tend to have friends with a purpose, again with the clique feel. If you make into a clique, you are set for life, but it will never be more than with another in that clique. There are no besties here.
- - - -
New Zealand vs Australian accent:
Listen to the vowels, that is the give away. The NZ has a less "stiff upper lip" so the vowels are a bit more rounded. Also, the classic letters; A, R, and O have slight shifts. However, there are also dialects within each so it would be interesting to note where each of you are from.
Hello!
Good video and I think you point important things. It's not specific to Paris but French in general. It's true that real friends are for life, and that we can totally contact anybody in our relationship network to ask any kind of advise,even if we haven't spoke for years, which is a kind of friendship. But you can totally make friends at work, I guess it mainly depends in which kind of company you are. Maybe it's because I'm young, so I'm new and without friends when I arrive in a new city. But as intern, I make friends with the other intern or young workers... I guess it also depend of the situation of your collegues! If they always lived in Paris, their clique might be full...
I'm moving to Paris next week, some of my old friends from high-school and university are there, but I definitely want to make new ones too!
Sport/art clubs might help too :)
I also think that people who actually lived/studied abroad are more open to international friends.
Your videos are always super interesting and detailed, not just blabla, thank you for that!
Have a wonderful day 😘
As Morrissey would put it, some things take time… When you've working for years somewhere, friendship just has to happen. Be patient.
As an American, we have no concept of a “full clique”. That’s very different for us. We also move a lot, so we need to quickly find new friends in our new location. It’s hard to keep friends for life.
Ruth Lloyd, what I meant is that Paris is a city where most French people might work at a certain moment during their life, so when you're going there, you have multiple group of friends. And it's time consuming to see all of them, sometimes you like to chat with some super often. So if you already have a lot of contact, your new relationship might be less passionate, more superficial. "buddies", not friends.
But how it usually works is that you know somebody and then you join their group, befriend them etc etc... (but of course it's only my opinion and personal experience)
Laurette Madelaine That makes sense; also I think deep committed friendships are special in any country and take time to develop.
J'ai vécu sur 4 continents, on retrouve les mêmes problèmes partout et souvent se faire des amis dépend beaucoup de l'âge. En tant qu'étudiant je n'ai jamais eu de problèmes, en tant qu'adulte j'ai remarqué qu'il y avait une immense différence entre une amitié dans le monde anglophone (Toronto; Boston; New York; Singapore as far as I'm concerned) et une amitié en France. J'ai trouvé que se faire des amis aux USA était plus facile qu'en France mais ces amitiés sont un peu superficielles. Un ami en France c'est un membre de la famille, généralement quelqu'un avec qui ont a grandi ou étudié et qui partage beaucoup de choses avec nous, les mondes se confondent, pas aux USA. Je me rappelle de mes amis du club de squash à New York, ils ont disparu le jour où je suis parti au Canada. Sur le moment j'avais le sentiment d'être proche d'eux mais non seulement je ne l'ai jamais été mais j'ai réalisé plus tard qu'ils n'avaient personne dans leur vie qu'ils considéraient comme un ami au sens français du terme.
I think this shallowness is what most French people are not interested in and this level of commitment could be frightening for expats because in my experience they're either not used to it, or they just don't have that kind of depth of character.
It's too much commitment and perfectionism in my opinion.
How interesting to have that video as I am currently struggling to make friends in Australia!
I do think some of the points you mentioned are common to all expat. Wherever you are if people already have several groups of friends they won't feel the need to have new friends, and most likely won't have time! I definitely had that feeling when I was living in Paris and I had Uni friends, high school friends, old job friends, current job friends (yes I made friends with my colleagues ;) )... That meant a packed schedule and not a lot of free nights !
I do think there are also cultural differences (not just language) that make it difficult. Things that you mentioned in other videos like expectations for a night out, honesty/brutal French feedbacks vs. Aussie/NZ Positivity and outgoing-ness. I can completely imagine that French women seem cold and un friendly. I live it the other way around, I find people so nice and curious here, but when you think oh cool I've made a new friend we can meet up later, nothing happens. I'm still figuring this out...
By the way I totally agree. Real friends are for calling in tears when there's something wrong!!
If you’re near South Australia let me know :)
I haven’t made many french friends here despite meeting many and being very active in the community here.
Extremely accurate video in my experience!!! For anyone planning on moving to Paris, take note of all these points, it sure could've helped me when I lived there and wondered why my student experience was so different from what people living cities or countries were experiencing...
As a french person I can understand and relate to everything you said especially about the fact it's hard to make new friends even between french people ! I come from south of france and it was super hard to make friends when I came to paris !
The only point where I disagree with you, is the 4th one... maybe it's more true for parisiens I don't know but when I meet people from another region/city/country I just love to talk about their way of life and compare our cultures !
Lorsque tu forges des amitiés en France, c'est "pour la vie" 😁
Ne pas se voir pendant plusieurs années n'est pas un problème en soi; nous avons tous des parcours qui peuvent nous emmener assez loin les uns des autres. Mais on reconnaît les vrais amis à ce plaisir toujours renouvelé que nous avons de nous retrouver.
I read a lot of your blog Parisisjustnotthatintoyou and it's very interesting, funny and sometimes depressing. Great work ! Your situation in the "cardboard boxes" article was very touching.
Good video as usual Rosie, keep it up because we want more :p
Even for French people it's hard to make friends when you move to another place, especially if you don't have anyone you know in this area who could introduce you to some new people. I don't think you can't make friends at work, it's totally the opposite. In my job, we are very mobile and workmates are the first source of friends when you move to another location. But that may be specific to my field. About this involvement required for friendship, it's not necessarily that people don't want to make new friends, it's just that they have different levels: best friend>friend>workmate>colleague>acquaintance. And yes, you could use your network to ask for favors, but you should expect to have some demands as well. This will depend a lot on people as well. For example, my girlfriend pays a lot of attention to friendship and she can't get involved in too many friendships as for her, it's almost like a wedding and she has high expectations, meanwhile I don't build so strong friendships as I understand that distance makes friendship harder to maintain and I am more opened to short and mid term friendships.
Im french and I feel the same way you do about french and I always find it very sad. I love new friends and i'm so interested about cultures around the world.
Let's be friends ^^
I’m a foreigner who live in paris. I don’t have friend in paris or in france. We can be friend if you want.
Hi,i'm french and i've never learn so much in one video on why i struggled so much after quitting my childhood friends (coz i changed too much) to make new french friends!!!
Almost all the aspects of your approach to friendship resonate with me even if i'm 100% french.But the hard part of the peach is where i feel completly off with your culture.
This is really a phenomena in Paris, and I'm not really sure of that, otherwise, everywhere else it is very common to get friendly with coworkers !! As a French, I'm surprised about that trouble you have !!! It is more likely due to the company or the line of work your are in !
@stiggy I don't know. I had the same reaction you had. But thinking about it again, yes people in here rarely have a happy relationship with their work and that may alter their mood and behavior towards other. I totally agree (with somebody in the comments, can't remember who) we don't like to let our job define what our life is. There is much more to it or there ought to be (and some people are very frustrated when it isn't). So letting our work define even who we are friends with can be seen as a nightmare. Plus, just as job and sexlife don't go well together, job and friends can have its dangers too. That way be why some people might limit their in interactions there to light friendship (if any).
I think the "no friendship at work" thing might come from how people are brought up too. My dad's best friends were mostly from work, but my mom always thought making friends with coworkers was super weird, hence never got such friends. Local culture is also a factor (people from the North seem more friendly than people from the South, at first). I lived in many places in France and made friends everywhere, but it's rarely effortless (unless you click from the start). Most of my best friends are from work, although some told me "now we can be real friends" when we became no longer colleagues (and I was "whaaat? Weren't we real friends already?"). Now, I've been living in Copenhagen for 9 years, and I hardly have any Danish friend. Some Danes actually told me than they did not want new friends, too much work, they just want to keep a small group of friends from school, that's it. Even being fluent in Danish does not help. So comparing to Danes, French are an easy bunch!
stiggy8322 I lived in Paris and have been living in London for years...it's the same situation. People are friendly at work but the most they will do is have a drink in the pub on a Friday after work. It's not a real friendship imo. I think it has something to do with big cities and also someone's personality too.
Everyone here should come to Winnipeg, Manitoba in Canada. Not the number one attraction for tourists or emigres, but for friendliness it is tops. If you join a company someone will invite you to the family barbecue the next week, someone will invite you to see a movie. Neighbours will be offering help. Even servers in restaurants ask what you would like to order as if they care that you haven't eaten and would love to bring you something.
Yeah I'm really confused by your experiences as well. This is my second time living here and we have been here this time two years and have probably more French/Parisian friends that non. I find the expats less interested in being day to day friends. Like they just want to catch up when they don't have visitors or their real friends from home here. With the French friends they are asking us to go out with them, go on picnics etc etc every week to the point we often worry about saying we can't. Interesting that you've had that experience, sorry to hear. Maybe I have to introduce you to our French friends. 😀🇫🇷
@not-even-French I'd be inclined to think so.
The French insularity of personal relationships and difficulty of making personal friendships is notable to many others as well, and mentioned in many 'expat' experience books (From Paris To The Moon, Paris I Love You, But You're Bringing Me Down, and even from 1930's books by MFK Fisher, a pre-eminent American Food Writer). I would be so depressed, as many others can be, by this cultural difference...
I am Indian living in Netherlands and we also feel the same way here. It's hard to make friends with Dutch. Jusy like you said we feel like as we are "chasing" them. Good video!
I must be secretly French (I'm American) because I never want to make friends at work. I want to work, get work done and leave it separate.
Candice fooled me. She now looks French! LOL
Indeed
I grew up in Switzerland as a kid then moved to France until the end of University. Then I was back in Switzerland. At first, I had no friends and it was very difficult to make new ones. A colleague of mine even said "I'm not here to make friends". So... I hear you.
Then I started playing taiko, I started getting involved in re-enactment and everything changed. There wasn't this work/private life separation.
In then end, it all worked out. I have a great network of friends. Some I can call in the middle of the night if I need to. And the colleague I mentioned (and a few others) became my friend as well. We still see each other a few times a year even though we don't work together anymore.
Good luck with everything!
This is so true: here you get stuck with your college friends for life! And it’s a shame. I made new friends only when I learned Italian here in Paris; I made friends with other students and some Italian teachers, and I now enjoy much more spending time with them than with my old friends with whom I have less and less things in common.
Usually, when I'm looking for new friends it's mostly because I failed with my previous ones...and by failed I mean got lost, either because they gave up themselves and left me alone or "au contraire" I'm the one who cut off the lines and get rid of them myself.
It happened almost everytime I reached a new level in my life and, to be honest...I got much more left from people I liked than I did to others from the beginning, until I became an adult and, well...I realized then, after 10 years working on it, without any help, just thinking alone for myself, only people truely able to bring me useful or nice things matters to me. Since a few years now, I chosed a way to get rid myself from every people I considered both useless and not nice enough for me. Then I just got used with this and I never regret anything about it. I'm able to bury each part of my past peace by peace when I finally learnt to never turn back anymore over people I once knew no matter what I could have lived with them. No more remorse. No more shame. No more pity. And I feel so good and so much greater now ! Friends is just an option. Friends never remain forever. It's just like a superstition. Like weddings, children and family. These are some tools society wants us to get just to do like the stupid noisy herd. Thinking for others is always disappointing. The best way to stop being disappointed is to think for yourself, because if you don't, nobody is going to do it for you. No one shall never give you a hand for that. Never expecting help when you really need it, because it never happens when you're in serious trouble. Fight for yourself, save yourself or you will be crushed, stamped and broken by the wild herd. This advice is the best somebody can ever give you.
The 'no eye contact' thing is SO true, and it is not just parisien but everywhere in France, you feel so ignored...I had this situation all the time, when I was not able to well understand French or things people were talking about
#5 "Hard to get in the conversation" :
Je suis très surpris de cette remarque car (il me semble que) c'est exactement la même chose dans tous les pays et toutes les langues ! J'ai vécu en Angleterre et aux États-Unis et, là-bas, personne n'a jamais parlé français pour me permettre de suivre une conversation ! Sauf à ma demande, bien sûr, pour clarifier une expression ou un mot difficile.
Quand tu arrives et que tu es débutant, tu ne peux pas t'attendre à ce que les gens se mettent à ton niveau de langue. C'est à toi de te mettre au leur. On ne peut pas ralentir la fête pour te permettre de suivre !
C'est aussi pour cela qu'il est parfois difficile de se faire des amis, car lorsque la communication est difficile, tout devient difficile : il faut expliquer les plaisanteries, parler lentement, la spontanéité disparaît, la subtilité aussi, et on se lasse rapidement de discuter uniquement de sujets simples et basiques, etc.
How cool would it be to have a video with a French person that has an experience in NZ ? It'd be an awesome way to share and compare experiences and points of view !
i have been living 4 years in Paris now and I can relate 100% to every single word you say. Thank you
annavictoria12345678 I’m foreigner who live in paris. I don’t have friend, and we can make friend if you want.
The fact that making friends need a lot of time and effort is obvious. Otherwise, it is just a fake friendship, an acquaintance at best. In Anglo-Saxon countries, I just don't get how people can tolerate superficial relationships and call that friendship when actually there is no real bond. Bonding requires time and effort. And also, I see a huge difference between using someone as an emotional tampon and a friend. Friends are people that can help us, but they don't have to support our emotional distress.
Hi, I loved this conversation. My French partner explained that in France there are levels of friendship. A copine is a level of friend you know socially who can't become an amie until you've assessed each other over time to be trustworthy.
I've been going back and forth to France now for 16 years and initially only had friends from my partners childhood who were so reserved toward me until they've learnt to trust me. Since spending more time there we have however made many new friends to my surprise. No initiation period required for some reason. Don't be tricked like I was though, that if I hosting in home One is very much included as the French are so well mannered and would never consider ignoring their host. I realised this when we dined at another home and the same guest who had pampered me as the host switched the attention to the new host which left me feeling a little flawed realising that we were not as bonded as I had first thought haha!
My younger brother in law tells me things are changing in France and that the rules are not as ridged as they once were. We are in south west France in a holiday town so potentially more relaxed than Paris even though we have many Parisienne expats here.
Living in Paris for 6 years with a child, so the natural network would be the school parents. You would maybe think that would be easy, but it's also a mindfield . Various examples of French rudeness, e.g asking for recommendations on activities for their kids, me sending ideas/links, and not even getting a simple 'thank you' .Another Mum always saying we need to invite you to our country home, but never actually making the invite, Ive never hinted that I would actually be interested (as not actually wanting to go to their country pile) but she is compelled to mention it each time I see her,which is only once or twice per year at the school fete. Other parents more than happy that their child is invited to our home, but they will never reciprocate, can invite their kid to ours 10 times and not an invite back unless I get my son to say to their kid at school. The Parisiens are lazy, selfish and very egotistical, they know your name but send a text with 'Hello !!" good gawd is it really difficult to write someones name when they have a child at the same school or class as theirs? I think they are basically very insecure which is why the need to be seduced in friendship, they need to be reassured to such a level, hence why you have to make the request all the time for a meet up.... they are not all that. I have friendships with parents who are either foreign or mixed French/other nationality as the French/French parents are too insecure to have a normal evolving friendship....Otherwise socialising with other foreigners is just a much more pleasant experience by a long long way.
This is a great video; great topic!! I have always loved the French language, the French architecture, furniture, everything; since I was very young. I had the opportunity to visit Paris and also southern France, (Grenoble), and found them to be somewhat different. This video explains a lot of what I found so different - even uncomfortable - when I was in Paris. I still loved it though. As I listened to your conversation and you explained how different the norms for Australia and New Zealand are, compared to France, I completely related to the norms from your countries. Thanks again you guys, great video!!
I'm Australian too and in my experience, number 5 is very true! In Australia if we had a foreigner with us in a group we would normally ask them lots of questions and try to make sure to include them in the conversation. We would explain who any people brought up were to make sure they could follow along. But in France I often found myself stuck observing conversations about people and places and events I didn't know. My colleagues acted like I wasn't even there. But I think maybe in France if you don't "force" yourself into the conversation (or, what we would consider to be forcing in Australia and NZ), then they assume that you're not really that interested in talking to them. Idk.
Also, as a linguistics student I've read some studies that suggest that French people do talk over the top of each other more than people in anglophone cultures do, and that it's perceived differently as well. It would seem that there are times when we'd consider it rude to interrupt, but for them it'd be normal to do that, and it apparently just makes the conversation more fun and lively.
not true. Asians experience the same in oz/nz unfortunately maybe it's just human nature ;)
Once again I deeply enjoyed watching your videos and specifically listen to your opinion on differencies, drawing parallels between your original culture and our french one. I also appreciate parisians and the rest of France aren't entirely compared in your words or videos' titles because, you're right, behaviours can be extremely different on some matters.
I think you're right in your observations most of the time and, as a French guy who's been travelling around quite a bit in the last decade (amongst others, Aussie & the UK, where I've respectively spent almost a year in each of these destinations), I find it absolutely interesting to listen to your way of apprehending these differencies in a, I think, very respectful way at the end of the day!
Thanks for sharing with such an accurate and tolerant eye! ;-)
Best,
X
I think in general, it’s hard to make friends as an adult unless you have kids and your potential friends have kids - especially if they go to the same school.
Hey! Expat living in Paris here!
I kinda disagree with what you said about work place friends. I think it really depends on the type of job. I've been a consultant in a Big Four for three weeks and a half and I've made a lot of friends here, some of which have quitted the job since then but we still see each other every two weeks or so.
Before that, 5 years ago I was an intern at a research facility (admittedly not in Paris) and I'm still in touch with the friends I made there.
Maybe the common thing between these two experiences is that we were a group of people having roughly the same age and the same background.
Of course I meant years ! I've been a consultant in a one of the Big Four for more than three YEARS 😅
En France on est copains/copines/potes avant de devenir amis/amies.
French have very few friends, like in general no more than five or six. Those friends are for life (the ones you can call in the middle of the night) and it's very difficult to make this type of friendship, that's why it's mostly friends from school. And then you have much more what I call "potes",( buddies maybe ?) Which arr people you can go out with for a drink, that you can see at parties etc but you don't share anything really persona. And then there is the "connaissances", which are friends of friends, people at work, etc. You see them every now and then, it's almost always by chance, and it's nice to see them, but it never goes further than that. At least it's my personal experience as parisian hahaha
Well, it takes years ! Sometimes, even people that you for like six or seven years from school, in the end, they reveal themselves not to be friends but yeah, just "potes". But don't despair ! Eventually, you will make really faithfull french friends :p
What happens when friends move to another city, or country? What happens when you no longer see life and values the same way? Maybe someone decides to become more deeply religious or not believe in the same religion at all. Or one maybe wants to convert to Buddhism? What about friends who might be great at sharing the same sense of humour or loving the same sports, but are indifferent or judgmental to problems you might be having and you begin to feel very alone with them? Some friends are toxic. Some are very demanding. Some are very indifferent. What happens when an old friend really hates your new spouse? What happens when you no longer care about the same things? One might become very fixated on gardening for instance. Another one becomes interested in social justice and now you find you have nothing to talk about. People don't remain the same all their life long.
@@RadiantSkin well, again in my personal experience, my best friend lives in Brittany, while I live in Paris. We only see each other during vacations, but the fact remains that she is still the person that knows me the best. When you have a true friend, distance doesn't matter. We've been friend for 19 years. As for values, I have several friends that are in the right of the political spectrum, and I am very much at the left. As long as you respect each other point of vue, and that you are willing to debate, there is no problem. But of course if one of my friends becomes racist, or homophobe, or hateful, and basically if our values clash to much I suppose that I will no longer be friends with this person. But it is a rare occurence, from what I know.
Oh, and you've mentionned religion : in France, it's a very private thing. And half of the population is atheist so it's not really a problem. It would only become a problem if religion causes the person to become intolerant to other beliefs and opinions.
And I don't know for you, but, when you are a group of friend, you tend to evolve alongside each other, and because you spend time with them, you influence them and they influence you, no ? So I don't see that as a problem. My best friend and I don't have the same interests, but we share wonderful memories and we love to help each other, and listen about each other interests because it's always cool to listen about the passion of others. That's what makes a real friendship in my opinion. A toxic relationship would be when your friend doesn't want to listen to you anymore, and only cares about himself and is judgemental about what you like.
Sorry for the messy response, I hope that I responded to what you said
@@gwenaellemendieta2815 I didn't mean to say that you couldn't keep the same friends you've had from childhood, but life takes you in different directions. People travel much greater distances today than they did in the past. They can have careers that take them all over the country, or the world. It's not unusual to make new friends and lose touch with old ones. You mentioned "racist, or homophobe, or hateful". Often people don't know that about their friends until they encounter a situation, or political position that brings it out. A person can be wonderful with you, but terrible with another person. Often we don't know who our true friends are until we experience a crisis. I am just trying to say that if you live a long life, being open to new friendships should be an option. With the world currently in so much in turmoil strangers are likely to become neighbours, or members of organizations you belong to. I find it strange that some people close the door at a certain age and then say no thank you to whoever else they meet.
@@krystynahunt5153 Oh, ok my bad, I didn't understand you point at first ! Having only a few real friends doesn't mean that you are absolutely against new friendships ! I've had a lot of friendships from school that faded away, but that's what I meant when I said that sometimes people reveal themselves as only "potes". And of course, I've met, as everyone, a lot of new people, in university for exemple. But since it's been only a few years, for now, it's only "potes", I will only know that they are friend if the friendship lasts over the years, if we still see each other after school, etc.
And about what you said about not knowing everything about your friends, well, I only consider as friend the ones that I know all of those things. Like I've seen them, and hear about how they act with other people, and I know perfectly where they stand on important things, on values that I consider non negociable. It's not a real friend if you don't even know if he's an homophobe, or things like that. If you don't know this things, then it's people that are only "potes", people that you enjoy being with, but maybe will fade away with time
Oh I'm sad you have difficulties to meet and have strong friendship in France. I'm agree with both of you it's hard, even for a french person but as you said when you had a strong relationship with someone, it can last forever. For exemple I come from countryside, and I grew up with most of the same persons from my two years old to my 18, as you said when you have a circle of friends for more than 15years it can be tough to foreigners to be invited in. Now I'm 24 but I still see some of my "old" friends, sometimes I haven't see them since 4 or 5 years, give some news once or twice a year, but when I see them again it's like we never had been apart. Some moved to others countries, others cities and it became a network. If I travel and know some of my formers relatives are around I call them and it's a pleasure to share these few moments.
I'm totally agree about frienship at work, in some fields it's easier but almost non-existent as soon as there's a bit of hierarchy. But i'm quite surprised by the rudness of your coworkers, I hope it's just a parisian thing ;)
Love your videos!
Borga M - I think it is just a Parisien thing. French people in the countryside are sooo friendly.
Soooooo true..... I'm in France from 10 years, I really made hard efforts yet no friends at all.... Great video!
To be fair I've had foreigners (and Frenchies) say the same thing about Kiwis... Loving your blog BTW I've lived in Wallonie and Lille and it's great hearing your stories.
I had a French roommate in the States who didn't make a single friend in the States. Instead, he invited his friends from France to visit him in the States. He said and I'd also heard that French people keep the friends they have from elementary or middle school and have zero interest in making new friends. However, it's different among people in Paris from the African Diaspora. Very friendly and happy to make friends with foreigners and others.
Hello! I'am an American living in the French countryside "la France profonde" as many french people call it here ;) and have had a very similar experience. I'm totally bilingual in French and have almost no accent so most people don't even realize I'm foreign aside from my physical appearance which gives it away (I'm Asian American). Being bilingual however, has not made my process any easier contrary to popular belief. I've been here for almost 3 years now (and previously in Lyon and also in Paris) but find that overall it has been really difficult to make friends from all of the points you mentioned- I will only say that many French people I know are friends with a couple of their colleagues but as a whole, they keep most of it separate. I can totally relate though to SO many French people not making any eye contact whatsoever while having an entire conversation with my husband, and me just standing there like.... hello??? And yes, it has been a process to learn how to impose myself and develop extremely tough skin and the confidence to sometimes interrupt a conversation or constantly bring myself back in- which as you both know, are NOT "anglo" cultural norms. To be honest, I actually find living in the countryside even more difficult than making friends in the city. People in the countryside all know each other and are very closed off to outsiders- even French people who come from different regions or areas. It definitely takes a lot of time, and now as I'm going on 3 years of being here I finally feel that when I go to an event or any kind of outing, people are just starting to say hi to me and to take interest in me, and it feels sincere and very warm and kind, BUT it did take THREE years to get to this point!
Kimberly Lecointre Totally agree! I’m french myself dont even think why .. Keep France as a country to enjoy forget about theirs current citizens they’re too narrow minded and brainwashed.. happy to get away
This was so much fun to watch ! I truly enjoyed it !! I think you did hit the spot when you guys mentionned the fact that friends in France are meant to be for life ( not all friends will be but the idea is that it should). I think, anglo-saxons in general, especially americans, but it works for aussies too , are really into the friendships of the "now" like i need somebody to be my friend now but it is for that specific time. Then life moves on. I have made friends in france that i still contact regularly and ( that i can also call at midnite if i need to!!! seriously, friends can be contacted at no time !! you are not being over judgy Rosie. ).
Well I have lived 4 years in Australia and 4 years in England... same issue !!
Please no mistake : parisians and French are two different things.
There are so many French people waiting to meet an expat, to share experiences etc. I am French and I find parisians so different than other people in France! We also have a different rythm of life outside Paris, in Paris everything goes faster I think.
I am living in Strasbourg and two of my ex colleagues are now my best friends, and they were during the time I worked there as well.
I would like to meet expats because I have always been interested in knowing a new culture etc but it is so hard!
I really like your videos! Thank you for sharing your experience :)
In Mexico we would ALWAYS switch to another language, mainly English or French to include people who do not speak Spanish.
Man, every single one of your videos make me want to work abroad so badly ^^
Also, they make me feel like I'm the least French Frenchman of all times Q.Q
The part about making new friends is the same in the UK. I suspect it is very common in many countries, you make friends at UNI or earlier, and you keep them for life. Other people that you meet later in life are just acquaintances. Also from my experience, people speaking their language exclusively and not paying attention to those who are not fluent in the group, is a common behaviour, I've seen it happening over and over with French, British, Spanish, Argentinian...
I must say, French people take friendship to a deeper level. Here in the US, it's all smile, you meet people at parties and you think how friendly everybody is, when it's time to go, everybody is hugging, it's all love and then your hear " we should get together sometime!" how many times have I heard this sentence? but it really never happened...To me it sounds like a joke, so I go along and say"sure", basically I find the meaning of "friends" a bit superficial, I don't know if it's an Anglo thing or what?. That's my two bit :>)
Marquis Von Lion Definitely an American thing. English people are quite similar to French people in this aspect, so not really an Anglo thing IMO.
There is this french motto that says "Tu rencontres tes amis sur les bancs de la maternelle"(you meet your friends in kindergarten) which says it all.
I lived in Paris for 15 years and developed one close friend and several acquaintances. I agree with your comments but I do believe that most of them are applicable to any large international city. People come and go and many develop a network of several others, always realizing that many folks will move on after 2 or 3 years. I would add that if you become friends with French people it is truly regarded as a friendship for life so you really want to be careful on your side about who you want to become more intimate with.
Man I really was meant to be French. I dont try to make friends at work on purpose because I want my lives separate. Thats not to say I wont be nice to collegues or in some cases Ill keep a relationship going after I leave that job and it becomes a friendship. Im American, so I feel like its normal for most adults to have the majority of their friends be work friends. Not me though. I have many hobbies I make friends through. The last thing I want to do is have all my life be spent with those few collegues 24/7
I am French, but I've lived for the last 5 years in Canada, and I feel like I've been influenced in many ways by the culture in which I live. And my way of socializing with strangers has definitely changed. I moved to a place where I barely knew anyone, and I didn't just want to go hang out with other French people (what's the point of living abroad then?) so I had to start to be more social and I realized that making friends as an adult is very hard. Unconsciously, I adapted my social behaviour and adopted a more Canadian one (which I think is closer to the one from Australia and New Zealand), and I started to create more opportunities for myself to meet new people, and to be much more open and warm to strangers that I met. And it worked! And now, when I go back to France for a few weeks, I really feel a disconnection and a reversed culture shock with other French people. It's weird to say, but I don't feel completely French anymore. There are things about the French way of doing things that I don't like, and I've changed them. But I needed to spend time abroad to realize how I behaved and why I didn't like it anymore. So maybe you should look for French people that have had a similar experience as mine. I know that I would love to be friends with you if I lived in Paris, and I would definitely ask you personal questions about your experience and your point of view on things :P
François Talbot - Travel broadens the mind and you have experienced what it's like to be a stranger in a new city so you have had to make an effort to make friends or be lonely. If you were born and grew up in Paris then you already have a bunch of friends and family and cousins, so some Parisiens don't make any effort to make new friends because they have enough already, but I think that is very narrow minded and shows a lack of interest in other peoples cultures and countries. I find people from other countries facinating and love having a variety of friends from around the world. That's what makes life interesting.
I am French and have lived on and off in the US for a total of over 12 years. So, I may look at the French with somewhat of an American eye. It is extremely difficult to make friends in Paris, not in France in general. All friendships start with making acquaintances. And many conditions must be met just to have acquaintances: proximity, repeated contacts, any pretext that makes it look like you are not looking for anything specific from the person. After many years of this, something extraordinary and memorable, most likely a hardship, may happen and get the acquaintance closer. The beginning of a friendship may happen then. An alternative would be to meet a former acquaintance in a completely new setting. What they have in common may bring them closer to one another. An example of this would be former school mates, or former colleagues, or 2 persons from the same hometown displaced... From there, it will become easy and possible to move on and do things together. Friendship may settle in shortly and become long term. This sounds like it would be almost impossible to make friends! But, there are ways around it like sharing interests - ie going to the same dance class. Also, all social classes do not behave in this way. It is much easier to make friends within the lower class segment of society than it is in the middle.
Bottom line, French people are shy, act as if introverted and are terrorized at being socially scolded. Unfortunately, after years of living through this hell, they end up internalizing and owning the problem that was imposed on them by their social environment.
On the other hand, I find Americans open, happy, welcoming and on the whole open to others, including foreigners. USA 10 points, and wins.
I have to disagree with the American part. As an American myself, I find most Americans to be only surface-friendly. It's not "fake" the way some Europeans might describe it. When an American is being warm and friendly to you, it's sincere but it really has nothing to do with wanting any sort of relationship with you. It's just being nice. Friendships are often formed from childhood or if you hung out with the same people from high school. Americans tend to make friends through common interests or activities.... true deep friendships are very difficult because most Americans aren't comfortable talking about deep or personal issues.
@@knucklehoagies Jay P Jay P I must agree with you. Americans are often surface friendly only. But, I find that to not be surface unfriendly from the start gives a great head start for building a friendship quickly. I find Parisians to be very surface unfriendly. For many, it's just a show they put on derived from copying the crowd around them.
Hi Rosie, I've been living in France for 27 years now and I'd say that the French women don't want to be friends with you as you are competition. They're scared you'll take their boyfriends / husbands. I've noticed that when the French go out they go out as a couple. If a French woman goes out alone or with another female friend, it looks to the French as if she's out on the prowl...However, it is pretty easy to become friendly with the French men, as the French men love being flirty, this is seen as normal behaviour. It probably will never become a real friendship though because French men like hanging out with women for sex.
The friends I have and who I've kept, over here, are all "foreign" in some way. I have a friend who's French but her parents are Italian, and she does couch surfing and travels to Italy a lot, another friend who's also French but spent her childhood in New Zealand, another friend who's French but lived in the USA for 10 years.
I hope this doesn't sound too cynical but I really think that this is the reason. I so crave going back to the UK for the friendliness factor and it seems very bleak sometimes when I come back...I admire you for your understanding of the French and giving them the benefit of the doubt. I just think they're rude and unfriendly.
Did you notice that French women also like to flirt with your boyfriend? Especially if you're not French. If your from the u.k like me then you should know we don't see flirting as a game like French people do. I had to remind a certain French woman that she's not in her country and her actions could result in her getting hurt..
this is so funny because i'm an expat but i'm not french neither New Zealander ..... i'm Algerian married to an american, and I found it so hard at first ( for more than two years lol) to make friends here , and according to what you say Americans have your same culture it's seams... like regarding friendship, My husband keeps calling some people we know friends while we only have been out with them a few times so when I tell him that I don't consider them friends yet, he doesn't get it.... but also, I find that here in the US people are so quick to be friendly with you but in reality they're not friend's they're like occasion friends .... to me, all this adds on the beauty of human-beings
Really relatable video...I feel like you really have to not only put yourself out there fully, and try really hard to connect with people, but that you also have to be prepared for the rejection just like you said in reason #2! It was a lot to get used to, especially coming from the friendly American culture!
So insightful as always Rosie! Love your videos!
Hello! I'm from Nice, and I think we have different definitions of the word "friend". Here in France, we call someone a friend (amis) when we feel like we can talk to them about EVERYTHING (mostly complain ;) ). And we use the word "copain/copine" for those we appreciate but don't feel the need to talk to them outside of work or uni... And that's true, we are more demanding. We like knowing the other one cares about us, and when they do not show any interest in us (how we are, what we like etc), we kind of let them go...
Great video and great topic, as usual! Thank you
I had exactly the opposite experience and that's maybe because I am a guy and because of the work I did. I lived and worked there twice, in Paris. The French treated me with as much kindness and hospitality and friendship as I could possibly wish. They were sometimes more attentive and edifying than my own family back home.
I became more confident. TheCo-workers had me home for supper to meet their families or would suggest weekend entertainment events I would never have discovered on my own.
I regret that I was the one who let these friendships lapse. Though I became fluent at speaking, I was too ashamed at how poorly I wrote. It was the era before Facebook and Skype. The only practical way to stay in touch was by mail.
Are you american? Maybe they thought you had some status - that cuts thru a lot.
I'm happy to keep my work life and my personal life separate. I will happily chat with them at work but I don't generally see my work colleagues on the weekend. I'm okay with that because I don't want any issues in my personal life, spilling into my work life.
That conversation point is so true... It's extremely annoying and difficult. It's horrible..
As a foreigner living in Australia and actually, i heard from my uni peers that they "don't want or need new friends because they already have friends from primary and high school". Also one uni acquaintance said 'no point of investing time into friendship because people will leave eventually or they will get a girlfriend or boyfriend and will leave".
Also later meeting people in the pub, sure we'd become friends go on hikes, to restaurants, pubs, cafes, restaurants, concerts, dinners, bbqs etc...but it's all about having "fun" and good time.. but in reality very weak friendships as never with any personal chats about life, family, goals etc. Very weak friendships. You discover they aren't real true friends when you get sick or are depressed or sad about your family member dying. There is just no support. Unless you want to ignore all your life problems and thoughts and switch off just for fun. Some say not to bother turning up to a party or catch up with friends if you are in a bad mood because people should leave personal life out of it so not to ruin other people's life/mood.
Also there is a big class divide where depending on your socioeconomic status, is which part of city you live in and who you get to interact with. There is very little to no class overlap. Also people tend to stay in their ethnic groups. My Indian taxi driver was giving me a sad story about wanting Australian friends but none were interested in being friends with him. Another Asian uni friend said "no i have pleanty of Australians" but meeting them, not one was anglo/of British heritage...all were Indian, Polish, Italian or Greek. Ive been told often when going out "where are the Australians". We'd be a group of 30 in pub and not one Australian. Or maybe one token one from Interstate due to work or uni or something. Easier to make friends with other "new commers".
And I've met plenty of Australian people saying "go back to where you came from". Also going to ethnics house you are given coffee, tea, snacks or meals. Be damn lucky to get a glass of water from Aussie. Few times I'd be dying of thirst and I'd feel rude asking but i just couldn't survive without water, and they'd say "well get it yourself ". I found it quite shocking and rude, as i can't just go through "friends" house looking for kitchen or clean glass or cup. Few times I'd have friends for many years and then i see their house, but get no hospitality. And those who eventually learn from others later behave like they were always like it, which isn't true ..or those with some hospitality tend to be upper class snobs. Seems upper class snobs have some hospitality skills but then act really snobby or even degrading, based on assumption of class/culture as if discovering some hospitality is equivalent to discovering electricity. But they don't really realise they would be considered really rude just about anywhere else in Europe...or Asia or anywhere else really.
Also I'd buy Australias a coffee or beer 1000 times, many would never buy me one. They'd just say "oh thanks you are really nice", but it would never occur to them to do the same. I clearly remember one uni friend would always accept my food and after 1000 times he offered me 1/10th of one candy he bought out of another 8 candies. Also this has happened 100000 times. I buy chips, if i offer Australian person chips they'll often say "really?" And take a handful or 80% of my chips or.. even say "you don't want any?" With a puzzled look on their face as they take most or all of it, leaving me hungry. I've also noticed if you meet a "nice" Australian they will offer you "one chip" which i find extremely rude. People in high schools and universities are totally... uncultured/no manners. This never happens with any other cultures. I've offered chips to Asians, Europeans, Africans, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners..not one has ever assumed i didnt want my chips and to take all my chips. Not once*. They'll take one or few. Then ill have some and offer them more, so we share equally. I'd say most Australians who call lower class Australians bogans are often bogans themselves... by world standards eg coffee/food sharing. P.S. Chips incidents happened 10000 times with different people. Some eventually learn by age 30 or 40 if they start to hangout with people of other cultures. And as to why i never said anything re chips being taken away by..savages.. well.. i felt shocked and i felt too rude to say anything. Too embarrassed. What do you say anyway? Most Australian men and women never wash their hands after going to the toilet so i wouldn't want them to drop chips back into bag anyway. Memory of their hands being overfilled with my chips leaving me shit all.. is heavily engraved into my mind.
Or some are really weird, was actually discussing this with a French person, saying we had same experiences, one being, offer to buy a someone from uni a coffee when we meet for catch up but they get all strange and decline because they think we want something from them, or they offer us money. Very odd. Also I go to to someones house for party, or birthday, i bring them bottle of wine. They open it to share with me. Which i find odd. They can't seem to understand concept of giving someone a gift without wanting to share it.